Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 12:50 AM

Hi, Bennet - When I was earning a living, I took the plunge and got a lifetime membership to Sing Out! Glad I did it then, because I can't afford it now....

I see in the magazine that members have access to the Sing Out! Resource Center (SORC). How can a California guy such as myself make use of the Resource Center, and what's there for me to use?

I would guess that most U.S. Mudcatters read Sing Out!, so I think I can say that you're among friends here. Whenever there's a particularly interesting article in Sing Out!, there's usually a good discussion of it here. Shelly Posen, current guru of the Sing Out! "Songfinder" column, makes regular mention of Mudcat - but I think we're better songfinders. Holly Tannen, previous mistress of the "Songfinder" column, used to come here for help when she got questions she couldn't answer.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 04:25 PM

Bennet, thanks for posting so much information, very interesting and helpful. If one were to send in a subscription, now, for a Christmas present for someone in the USA, do you know if the current issue would be sent out in time for the recipient to receive it for the holiday?

Art, et al, thanks so much for the remembrances. I love reading them!

kat

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: raredance
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 08:22 AM

Let me add my 2 cents about the SingOUt CDs. Wonderful! They used to have a system where you could call up a phone number, punch in the magic code and listen to a certain song from the current issue. It was so awkward and musically unsatisfiying. The CDs are a brilliant inovation.

rich r

Subject: Rise Up Singing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:54 PM

Say, Bennet - has there been any progress on the second volume of the Rise Up Singing songbook? Last I heard, it was stalled by problems getting copyright permissions. Can you give us a progress report?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 04:33 PM

It's been a few days since I have checked into this site and a number of questions have built up. I will see what I can do to answer them.

Joe Offer - Sing Out's staff is rather limited, so the amount of help available by telephone varies. Whenever possible, staff tries to service member requests in the manner of a research librarian. What is principally there is a great number of "folk music" books and recordings (thousands of them). We retain a copy of everything sent to us for review over the years, so we have many hard to find items. Indexing is not all that it should be but we are working to improve it. If we had enough memberships, we could support a librarian with computer skills who could do all of this right. We may be starting a fund-raising campaign for this specific purpose if we thought it would be successful. As it is, it is now somewhat catch-as-catch can and it is best if you can get to Bethlehem, Pa. to use it in person.

As to Rise Up Singing, it is true that we are working on a "second volume" and are in the process of obtaining clearances. This is a very big job, since we are presently working with a list of about 1200 songs. We are doing this as quickly as we can since there seems to be an unmet demand for the new book. I cannot give you an estimated publication date, however. Once we publish the improved version of Rise Up Singing itself, which should be soon, the "second volume" will be our highest publishing priority.

I have more to write on this, but a client calls. I will return.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:50 PM

You have my total and complete permission to include anything of mine you want to use. There. That should speed things up.

Is this second book to be called THE NEW TESTAMENT since the first book was treated as gospel in song circles where questions of folkal correctness were involved?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Barbara
Date: 06 Dec 01 - 06:51 AM

Wal, Art, mebbe they'll do all the un-PC songs they left out the first time, hey? Sure.
But to add to the unsolicited testimonials, I also have subscribed for longer than I can remember, wait a minute, that might not be long these days... and love the diverse information and wonderful songs I get there.
We all sang "Uncle Dave's Grace" for Thanksgiving this year (a Lou and Peter Berryman song) because it was featured in the last Sing Out!
Great source of wonderful songs, and I've been known to feed Faith Mudcat parodies on occasion.(Faith Petric writes the Parody column in the mag).
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 12:46 PM

A couple of days later, I am back to continue responding to the various questions raised. I have attached a recent e-mail from Mark Moss (Sing Out's Executive Director) on "Rise Up Singing" and its planned second volume, tentatively titled "Spread Your Wings."

By the way, this comes from Sing Out's own listserve/discussion forum which mudcatters might enjoy (see info following Mark's message):

At 08:24 PM 12/3/2001, Robert Bledsoe wrote: >I have heard, read, or dreamed perhaps.... that Rise Up Singing is being >upgraded or revised... did I really read that or was it a dream? Any >information available?

Rise Up Singing is being upgraded. The songs will stay the same, but we're incorporating corrections compiled over the years, fixing the typography a bit, and adding "Track numbers" to make the new Teaching Discs (CDs) easier to work with. No exact release date is set for the revised edition (we're a small, stressed staff ), but list members will be the first to know when the release is imminent.

At that time, we hope to make a slightly larger Leader's Edition available as well. No price is set for that, yet. Again ... details to the list as soon as I have 'em.

We are *also* working on a sequel to Rise Up (working title "Spread Your Wings"). This is a *WAYS* off, but we do have a phenomenal list of another 1200+ songs for the book. The permissions process is on-going ... and it's the next big project *after* the "upgraded" RUS.

_____________________________________ Mark D. Moss / Sing Out! P.O. Box 5460 (for UPS: 512 E. 4th St.) Bethlehem, PA 18015 Ph: 610-865-5366 x203 Fx: 610-865-5129 (eFax: 413-403-9883) Toll Free (orders only!): 888-SING-OUT E-mail: [e-mail] Web: http://www.singout.org

Community email addresses: Post message: [e-mail] Subscribe: [e-mail] Unsubscribe: [e-mail] List owner: [e-mail]

************************

Now its me again. I should mention that the teaching CD's are a big improvement over the Teaching Tapes for Rise Up Singing. The recordings are the same, but it is now very easy to find the song that you want.

On to other questions asked above.

katlaughing- We try our best to fill all orders promptly, and I believe that our next issue is presently at the printers and should be received by subscribers before Years end, and hopefully before Christmas. I suggest that you subscribe by phone or by our web site with a credit card. If you call, you can ask the person who answers directly. If you start the subscription with our most recent previous issue (rather than the one now at the printers) I would be very surprised if we couldn't get it there by Christmas.

Legacy Books - In addition to our resource center we also now operate Legacy Books (formerly of Hatboro, Pa.) This makes us a source for many difficult to find and out of print books relating to "folk music," above and beyond our own publications. The Legacy Books catalogue is now on-line at the Sing Out web site, complete with a secure server for credit card orders, a shopping cart, and a search capacity. I plugged in the word "Morris" and we had five publications for sale relating to Morris Dancing. This is brand new for us. Be the first on your block to use it!

Barbara- Although your PC comment is obviously offered in a light-hearted way, it is a criticism that we at Sing Out! have frequently heard over the years, so I will respond seriously. The editors at Sing Out! do not have a political litmus test either for the inclusion of songs in the magazine or in our publications. However, we certainly try not to print songs that are racist or sexist if we can help it (unless perhaps in the context of an article to which the song would be relevant).

That being said, however, Sing Out! has always been pretty clear in its general orientation with the left and nobody should pretend otherwise. We are much more likely to publish a good topical song from the left than from the right, but we have also given good coverage to the likes of Merle Haggard over the years.

Sing Out! was initially formed to fill the void left by the collapse of the People's Songs organization. People's Songs was associated with the Communist Left, and Sing Out! was certainly viewed by the McCarthyites as no different. Among Sing Out's founders were Paul Robeson, Howard Fast, Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and others who were subjected to vicious red-baiting. For most of its first twenty years, Sing Out's Editor was Irwin Silber, who also edited and wrote for other left-wing publications and was not one to hide his politics. We had many critics who felt that he made Sing Out! too political at various times.

Perhaps we still have such critics, but under Mark Moss' editorship (and he has now served in that position longer than any previous editor, including Irwin Silber) the magazine's politics are not nearly as prominent as they were in earlier years. No reader would confuse today's Sing Out! with a political magazine, nor do I believe any objective reader could accuse us of dogmatism or of following some particular political line. We nevertheless continue to include current topical song in every issue and the topical songs we choose generally reflect a left-wing point of view.

All music has politics, whether acknowledged or otherwise. I think Sing Out! is proud of its history and politics and views left-wing political music as, if anything, a core element of what has come to be known as "folk music" in this country and around the world. We are also more likely to to think a political song that does a good job stating a point of view that we agree with is a song worth printing than a political song that we don't like because of our disagrrement with its message. If that amounts to an undue "PC" attitude, we stand convicted. It's better to be politically correct than politically incorrect.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:02 PM

Here's something cheap, but would be a vast improvement for the second edition of RUS -- add some blank pages. It is a real pain pasting in other songs, and deciding which pages of RUS are to be sacrificed. Actually, I lie, pasting over the incredibly dopy MEN's section was easy, but then what?

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 03:25 PM

Good idea, Pete, but even so you'd eventually run out of blank pages. How about printing a version of Rise Up Singing that can be inserted into a loose-leaf binder?

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: GUEST,MAG at work
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 05:38 PM

I can't hardly read the thing; how 'bout a large-type edition, so I won't have to photocopy a song on "enlarge" anymore."

MA

maybe if I can swing early retirement, I'll come be your librarian. I'd give you such a deal!

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:39 PM

The new Leader's Edition of Rise Up Singing will be large type. As far as blank pages are concerned - I suggest carrying a seperate notebook of your own formation. Rise Up is already large enough. Moreover, Rise Up began as Peter Blood's personal scrapbook of lyrics. If yours works out as well maybe you will be able to get us or someone else to publish it some day. With any lick, "Spread Your Wings" will have a lot of what you want when it eventually appears.

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: GUEST,MAG again
Date: 07 Dec 01 - 06:55 PM

Yah, some of us remember that white spiralbound without a lick of publisher's info, distributed it seemed largely by Quakers ...

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 01:14 AM

Refresh, esp. for some of Art Thieme's postings...good stuff!

Subject: RE: Mudcat / Sing Out Magazine
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 01:49 AM

Thanks for the refresh, katlaughing -- I never saw any of this great stuff before.

I bought and read every issue of Sing Out! for several years, around '63 to '65 or so; it was the source of much of my earliest education as a guitar player and songster, and also an important part of my introduction to leftism and bohemianism in general.

I had long since forgotten about it, and had no idea it was still being published. I suppose that proves that I'm not a true folkie these days. As a listener and fan, my musical interests include a pretty wide range of "roots" genres, including stuff as far out as modern jazz, jam-band rock, world music, etc. As a performer, however, I'm a strictly acoustic type, capable of using no more than 5 or 6 chords per key -- pretty folkish, in other words. So, I suppose I have no excuse not to resume my relationship with Sing Out!