BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques

Subject: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 10:39 PM

I just read the 67-page document at the link below and made notes of the high points. I encourage everyone to read it. Fascinating. It was written before the presidential election so some of it seems dated now, but no less important:

AN EXAMINATION OF OBAMA'S USE OF HIDDEN HYPNOSIS TECHNIQUES IN HIS SPEECHE  S  

Obama's speech often diverges from normal and logical speech patterns, and clearly uses the non-logical, clearly artificial and intentional patterns of hypnotic trance induction, and hypnotic critical factor bypass as taught in the field of covert and conversational hypnosis. This document will explain what Obama is doing and how it works by explaining hidden hypnotic language patterns and other hypnosis techniques.

Essentially, hypnosis is an altered and common state of mind involving intense focus, sidelining or disassociation of the rational critical thinking, and the state of hyper-suggestibility brought about while the subconscious mind is the dominant player. It happens while reading, listening to music, and even while hearing a great speaker.



PACING AND LEADING

Pacing and leading is a fundamental tool in conversational or covert hypnosis. "Pacing" can be almost any technique by which a hypnotist gets your critical factor to lower its critical analysis and scrutiny of the information you are receiving.   The "lead" is the new information, suggestion, or command the hypnotist wants to implant. When done effectively, the hypnotist can "lead" – implant suggestions and commands that pass through into your subconscious that will be taken as unquestionably true.

Pacing works by disguising information as part of the subject's ongoing verifiable experience to trick the critical factor into letting that information pass through to the subconscious. Unknowingly to the conscious mind, when this happens, the lead, or the new information from the hypnotist is accepted as absolutely true, and becomes part of the subject's deepest beliefs.

Three of Obama's favorite hypnotic paces are "that's why I stand here tonight", "now is the time", and "this moment." These are things the hypnotist says that are verifiably true, and used to lower our critical factor defenses to allow implantation of subconscious messages. These three pacing statements were used by Obama a total of fourteen (14) times throughout his 2008 Convention speech in Denver. After pacing the audience, thus lowering cognitive critical factor defenses, Obama then implanted the lead (hypnotic command), "and that is why I will be your next President." The reason Obama sounds so hyper-confident with certain language patterns is because he has to in order to input a command effectively so your subconscious takes it as absolute truth.

Obama's sentence structure is often exactly what is taught by Erickson in ways that cannot be coincidence. If he went into specifics, he would not be pacing, he would be encouraging the use of the conscious mind, something he is attempting to avoid.

TRANS-DERIVATION

A statement that we hear consciously contains only one surface structure (unless we do a double-take and realize a secondary meaning). However, one such statement can contain multiple deep structure meanings to our subconscious. The process by which the mind searches between alternate meanings is called trans-derivation. The searching through these various meanings is part of what distracts the rational part of the mind as part of hypnotic induction, even if we are not consciously aware of our search between different meanings. When Obama says "change" is can mean a lot of different things to everyone. He is not specific in what he means because then he would lose his pacing of the audience. Obama creates a trans-derivational search just by saying the vague word change, allowing that message of change to slip into the subconscious, as a command, that he has associated with himself in a number of subconscious and conscious ways.

HAND GESTURES

EXAMPLES FROM A COUPLE OF SPEECHES:

[copy/paste shortened. There are previously posted limits. -a clone]

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Alice
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:03 PM

What a load of bull crap. The tin foil hat crowd seems to be growing.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:10 PM

Obama is actually implanting feelings and emotions into your subconscious. The passion people feel for Obama is real because it comes from deep inside each of them. Thus, logical arguments against Obama become irrelevant.

Look up neuro-linguistic programming. They teach it to salespeople now.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:12 PM

I believe you, Alice...did you use your thumb and forefinger when typing that? All I know is you give me great hope and I know it is BECAUSE we wanted change and you brought it to us. When do we get fitted for those tinfoil hats?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:15 PM

I love the squawling sound of programming being broken. You've been Obamatized. But then G.W. Bush managed to hypnotize, somehow. And if HE could do it...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:17 PM

Oh for gawd's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Alice
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:22 PM

If you believe in NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) then Tony Robbins has a lot of success programs he can sell to you.



(Some quick googling on "NLP debunked" will show you what crap it is).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Alice
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:27 PM

NLP con game

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:31 PM

Because covert hypnosis is hidden in ordinary speech, and the subject is not aware that it is being used, it is even more powerful than ordinary hypnosis.

Obamatization

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Alice
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:34 PM

O RLY?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:37 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformational_grammar

NLP is real. It has its roots in work done by Noam Chomsky. Of course NLP is abused. What isn't? Look at how it was abused by Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:41 PM

OP, what interest brought you to this website? Do you play any instruments, sing songs, study the origins of songs, etc.? Or, are you just trolling? If the latter, it would be best if you went away to somewhere else, perhaps with people of like mind. As I think that is likely the case, I will not be responding to any of your postings from here on it. I would advise others to do the same...ignore the troll.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 11:53 PM

I feel your pain, katlaughing. You are undergoing the breaking of your conditioning. You will strike out at first, but you will gradually come around to acceptance. You have been had, by the two-party system. No one holds it against you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:03 AM

hahahhahah

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:28 AM

Actually, any truly effective orator has a strong hypnotic effect on the great majority of his listeners. That's perfectly normal, but really good orators are quite rare. Some of them possess a natural gift to "entrance" their listeners...while others learn such techniques through trial and error or possibly from an instructor.

So?

The vital thing is....is the orator having a hypnotic effect on his audience in a way that leads to something positive or something negative? In other words what is his longterm gameplan and what are his real intentions?

A good musical performer also has a hypnotic effect on his audience. That again is perfectly normal, and it's desirable too. It's one of the marks of a truly great speaker, storyteller, or entertainer of any kind.

That doesn't mean that it is, by definition, evil...or being done for any evil purpose.

Agreed, Ichmael? I'm not trying to get you to agree with Obama's purposes necessarily (as you clearly don't)...but what I am trying to get you to agree with is that the hypnotic effect of any good speech or public performance is not, in itself, any proof of evil intention.

ALL politicians try very hard to hypnotize their audiences, for gosh sakes! Some are much better at it than others. Sarah Palin and McCain were both pretty good at hypnotizing their more fervent followers. In fact, Sarah Palin is VERY good at it. She had the look, the gestures, the body language, the catchphrases...all down pat...but they would only work on the right subjects. The same goes for Obama.

Ronald Reagan was fantastic at it. Nixon wasn't too good at it, because he was too shifty-eyed and nervous of possible criticism. Hubert Humphery was useless at it...the man's hypnotic abilities were absolutely nil. ;-)

John Kennedy and Bill Clinton were both very good at it. George Bush Sr. was not. Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, and Winston Churchill were all superb hypnotic orators...for the right audience...no good at all for the opposing audience, but that's normal.

The ability to mesmerize an audience is something every politician aims for! It's an essential part of the craft of getting elected, for heaven's sake.

Supporters of Obama should be able to see this too. Of COURSE Obama uses certain gestures, tones of voice, repetitious phrases, and other signals to mesmerize an audience and get them on his side. They ALL try to do that. It's part of the job of getting elected and staying popular. Obama's just a lot better at it than most. If he turns out to be as good at it as Reagan or Clinton were, he'll be in for a whole 8 years.

As for Mr G.W. Bush...I'd say he was moderately good at it, in a pretty primitive way...a way that would appeal to a certain constituency...but there was so much stupidity evident in both his performance and his policy decisions that he aroused more opposition than support as time went by.

John Kerry on the other hand was not very good at it, in my opinion. He wasn't really bad at it either...just sort of mediocre.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:36 AM

What Milton Erickson did, by the way, was to create a formalized description of a whole bunch of natural techniques of influencing and persuading people that orators, leaders, and entertainers in every known civilization have used for thousands of years. It's not the exclusive property of the community of therapists, it's something that was being used long before modern psychotherapy even existed.

These therapists have just rediscovered the water pump, the egg, breathing techniques, and how to start fires, and they are under the impression that they have discovered something brand new that belongs to them alone! What hubris on their part. ;-D

Hell, people were doing all that stuff 5,000 years ago. It didn't get invented by Milton Erickson.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:15 AM

What Little Hawk said...

History is repleat with leaders who could give a good speech... Some of them turned out to be great leaders, some good and some down-right lousy...

The rightie-bloggers must be very bored these days...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:01 AM

LMAO......We really are getting some fruitcakes around here anymore, I think IckyMicky showed up to help Carol and Hawk on a 911 thread to prove their theories regarding a conspiracy/coverup/whatever.

IckyMicky has gone on to prove himself a real shit-for-brains with a huge collection of tin hats in his closet.   Ick can find a sinister conspiracy in a malfunctioning urinal.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM

Well, think about--you need to pee, the urinal is broken....coincidence???? I don't THINK so....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:23 AM

Your diagnosis, as usual, is scintillating and precise, Spaw.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:30 AM

It turns out that all that has descended upon me, and has kept me from spending much time on the internet, has had a hidden benefit. It has kept me from reading shit like this. Have you ever noticed that speakers that used these techniques in the past were never called on it? Does anyone else see that since the first African descended person was elected we are now seeing that when he uses the same tactics his predecessors used, it is somehow a threat to life on earth?

ichy, using a new id doesn't hide who you are. And you are still a lunatic.

Mick, going back into his cave.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:34 PM

LOL! Only fools and madmen spend much time in these hallowed halls of bloviation, Mick. I'm glad to hear that you still have enough of a real life that it doesn't allow you to spend a lot of time here.

***

The malfunctioning urinal thing IS a conspiracy! No doubt about it. The intention is to cause people stress by frustrating them. The increased stress causes them to get all "pissed off", rush around and buy things, and that stimulates the economy. People who are pissed off are more likely to support war! It's quite clear that a consortium of major corporations in collusion with the CIA and Blackwater have conspired with urinal manufacturers to bring about this horrifying situation, and it must be stopped!

Chongo Chimp has been a courageous crusader on this burning issue for some time. He wants people to all gather outside the washrooms in shopping malls and chant "I'M PISSED OFF AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!" If enough people do this we can stop the conspiracy in its tracks and restore good quality urinals to the nation.

Chongo has also proposed an amendment to the Bill of Rights that will guarantee the availability of properly functioning urinals in every community and every public area. It's called the "Pisser Amendment".

Women should not be afraid to show solidarity and join men in protesting the situation, because even though women don't use urinals themselves, they still have to deal with frustrated men who do....therefore it's their problem too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:40 PM

Well. LH you are behind the times. angry women all over the country are banding together in grass-roots outraged clumps calling themselves "Pee Parties", and are planning to march--dribbling as they go--on Washington to demand the right to use urinals and insist the healthcare plan be provided with an amendment making the provision of plastic adapters mandatory for all women of standing.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:45 PM

"Well. LH you are behind the times. angry women all over the country are banding together in grass-roots outraged clumps calling themselves "Pee Parties", and are planning to march--dribbling as they go --on Washington to demand the right to use urinals and insist the healthcare plan be provided with an amendment making the provision of plastic adapters mandatory for all women of standing."

Well. Really, now.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:45 PM

Well, that can only help, eh? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 12:55 PM

Oh, Eb, I got carried away with my image of Pee Parties. So sorry!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:07 PM

ichMael, there's no secret about his speechmaking:

It's called "rhetoric". Every would-be leader and politician does the same kinds of things. Obama is just somewhat better at it than normal, that's all.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:21 PM

It isn't any particular speech patterns but he uses logical fallacies and his supporters fall for them every time.

For example the uses the false dilemma or the false dichotomy as the reason to support the health care bill as if the only way to reform health care is to support the bill. If you do not support the bill you are against health care reform.

There are very few Americans who do not want health care reform to bring the cost down so it is more affordable and more people can be covered. They are in favor of certain provisions that are in the bill, against others and want certain other provisions added.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:23 PM

I know this is a painful process, people. I went through it way back when G.W. Bush was my governor. Imagine the horror I felt when I saw him being foisted on the U.S. as president. Some of us tried to warn, but the media got the "liberals" to stand down and allow Bush to become president. I could go into the techniques Karl Rove used, but this discussion is about Obama.

And actually, you have a good example of Obamatization right here. Early on in this thread the "liberals" and "Democrats" were talking about how much they wanted to extend "universal healthcare" to everyone. Very compassionate-sounding. But once the thing was passed, those same compassionate people began frothing about how, if you don't accept the healthcare the feds want to FORCE us to buy, then you should die. Obamatization was used on the mob to get it to support the healthcare package, and now the mob is being turned on opponents of the package. It's fitting that Mussolini and Hitler were cited as practioners of oratorical hypnosis in one of the posts above--the same type of mob control devices are being employed on Americans right now.

Okay, people. Time for your reward for being so attentive.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 01:53 PM

Just noticed the original post was butchered. This is what happens when the conscisous mind becomes aware of the trick that was played on its unconscious. Destruction of the information is the easiest way to deal with the uncomfortable realization. I'll piecemeal the original post back into place:

Ericksonian trance induction (named after Milton Erickson) has three dimensions which we will return to often and compare to Obama's language patterns. They are:

1. Pacing and distraction of the dominant (language) hemisphere;
2. Utilization of the dominant hemisphere, language processing which occurs below the level of awareness;
3. Accessing of the non-dominant hemisphere;

Dr. Erickson discovered while working as a therapist, that he could hide therapeutic hypnosis within the normal content of an inconspicuous conversation with the patient, and avoid much of the patient's conscious resistance that normally accompanied hypnotherapy. Dr. Erickson realized the subconscious mind was always listening, and understood better than anyone before how to access it, and implant suggestions into it. What Dr. Erickson did was figure out how to put people into trance and hypnotize them and implant suggestions with seemingly normal conversation.

The critical factor is the cognitive function best analogized to a security guard (critical factor) who searches every person (information) entering into a nightclub looking for weapons (and stops all information that is questionable). The critical factor stops all information and allows your thinking and rationality to determine whether it is acceptable to the subconscious mind or not. Hypnosis uses language patterns, visual tricks, body language, voice, tone, and other aspects of communication to get "suggestions" past the critical factor part of the brain and directly into the listener's subconscious.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:11 PM

Icky,

Your premise that ordinary political rhetoric is hypnotic is itself disingenuous. Ever since the Greeks people have used rhetoric to stir up sentiments and thoughts in other people, and it is no big news that this can include the persuasion of ideas which do not stand up to closer examination when sorted out and examined more closely. That is not hypnotism in any formal sense--it's just ordinary human rhetoric, human gullibility, and human stupidity. I think asserting it is some special hypnotic technique used by Obama is itself an inaccurate idea being pushed with an alarm flag tied to it so one might accept it under the temporary influence of fear. Obama is a good public speaker, but he is not using Jedi mind tricks on the populace. Maybe you are so un-used to being spoken to by an intelligent and respectful politician that you think it must be some kind of trick?

Seems to me this is pseudo-science gobbledygook being used as a thin cover for unfounded alarmism.

Well, gotta run, I'm getting an alert notice to report in to the Galactic Patrol to have my conditioning refreshed. Nice talking to ya!


A

BTW, here's an inside tip: the aluminum foil MUST be shiny side out or it won't work, and the standard transmission time is always anchored to Greenwich as zero-hour.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: gnu
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:15 PM

Yer kinda like an ich that can't be reached to scratch.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:20 PM

Shit....... and all this time I thought it was my Jedi mind tricks that caused folks to listen...... Thanksalot, Amos, you prick.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: gnu
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:50 PM

ich believes in The Farce.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 02:53 PM

I sympathize, Mick. That Amos is a slick man with a phrase. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: gnu
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:09 PM

Ebbie. Minds me a Robin Williams... "Slicker 'n whale shit."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 03:13 PM

""There are very few Americans who do not want health care reform to bring the cost down so it is more affordable and more people can be covered.""

How many Republicans in the USA Sawzaw? That's the "few" people you are talking about, and it ain't a small number, except in the IQ department.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: PoppaGator
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 04:59 PM

OK now, let's make sure I understand this:

Effective speaking technique is an insidious plot to undermine our freedoms and pollute our precious bodily fluids!

This has never been a factor in our national discourse before. But now that a N****r has taken over the White House, along with his not-really-American liberal cronies, it's time for everyone to become good and paranoid.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:24 PM

"Ebbie. Minds me a Robin Williams... "Slicker 'n whale shit."

Believe it or not, Amos, that's meant as a compliment. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:26 PM

Well said, Poppa. I have said all along that there is an underlying current of racism in most of these attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:40 PM

Big Mick, who needed to have that glaring truth pointed out?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:44 PM

Hmmmmm

I campaigned for Obama and Donated to his campaign and saw him speak in person. He certainly didn't hypnotize me. In fact, What he did do, was tell us what he was going to do in fairly plain language then proceed to do it.

He has kept his promises on Afghanistan, to make it the first front on the war on Bin Laden and his followers; On Iraq, to pull out the combat troops; and now on Health Care, He said he was going to make it more affordable and fairer and he said that he SUPPORTED a public option. He also promised to adversely change the health care of those on private plans.

He has kept his promise on restoring America's standing in the world, and with the astounding (to me) great work of his main rival, has done that.

Obama may have disappointed some of his supporters who, having been given permission to hope, hoped for too much. But he has done his best to keep his word, even on Guantanamo.

On the other hand,

As much as I hated the bailouts of Chrysler and GM, the thought of a quarter million jobs disappearing at once, during a recession, would have been far far worse. I wouldn't expect anyone who supports the Republicans to know basic economics, If they did they couldn't support any Republican since Nixon. But if they put their partisan, condescending hatred for Obama aside, even some of them might see that to let those companies would have caused an economic collapse.

The Bank Bailout was Greenspan's, Bernanke's and Paulson's doing. (Greenspan sewed the seeds) The disaster for the country was that Republican lawmakers and especially George W Bush, through cowardice and ignorance left the whole economy in their hands and they screwed it up.

When they panicked and went to Congress, The President and the President elect, and predicted that the sky would fall without the bailout they made the bailout the only option.

The only good reason to vote Republican is that supposedly they know business and are better for business. After this screw up, there is no good reason to vote Republican at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: DougR
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 05:52 PM

ichMael: I am pleased to report that one Mudcatter was not taken in by Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques. When I see him making a speech on television (which seems to be two or three times a day though I know that isn't quite true) I cannot get to the Mute button fast enough.

I wonder if he ever does anything OTHER than writing and making speeches. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:58 PM

"I cannot get to the Mute button fast enough"

"There are none so deaf as those who will not hear."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 06:58 PM

It's called being an orator.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:04 PM

That some people believe they're being hypnotized by someone who's able to speak well explains a whole helluva lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:09 PM

That some people thought anyone was hypnotized by W. explains the current economy.

Selectively choosing to hear what one wants to believe is a serious issue. But it ain't hypnotism.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:12 PM

IchMael - You mentioned this.... "For example the uses the false dilemma or the false dichotomy as the reason to support the health care bill as if the only way to reform health care is to support the bill. If you do not support the bill you are against health care reform."

Ah, yes! The old false dichotomy rhetorical device...

I wouldn't doubt that Obama has pulled that routine more than a few times, because virtually ALL politicians do it in order to get people to support some initiative they're pushing. They present a false set of divergent alternatives as if those were the only 2 choices available.

Here's a great historical example, still advanced today by people:

The A-bombs were supposedly dropped on Japan "to end the war without having to lose millions of lives in an invasion of the Japanese Islands..."

False dicotomy!!! There would have been no necessity whatsoever to invade Japan to end that war. The Japanese were already desperately seeking a negotiated end to the war, and had sent envoys to Stalin so that the Russians could pass their messages on to the USA and Great Britain. (Japan was not at war yet with Russia) Allied intelligence services surely knew that the Japanese were ready to throw in the towel...their navy was gone, their air force almost gone, they were virtually out of fuel and food, their ability to continue functioning was collapsing due to the Allied blockade of Japan.

It could hardly have been more obvious that Japan was within a few months of surrender and was looking for a way to end the conflict.

Yet the bombs were dropped...supposedly to save the millions of lives that would be lost in an invasion that would NEVER need to happen! The public was not told about that.

So a false set of choices was named in order to justify the act, a terrorist act which was not necessary to either end the war or save any significant number of lives.

Why were the bombs dropped? Well, I think the most probable reason why is this: Stalin was planning to declare war on Japan as soon as he had moved substantial forces east from Europe, and he intended to sieze every piece of land he possibly could when he made war on Japan...just as he had siezed everything he possibly could in western Europe. He would have invaded northern Japan, the northermost islands, from the Russian base at Vladivostok, and the Japanese would have had little in that area to stop the Russians. The result of that would undoubtedly have forced the Americans to quickly invade southern Japan, thus experiencing the terrible losses they were expecting there (the south was heavily garrisoned). The end result of the whole fiasco would have been a divided Japan similar to what happend in Korea, and the USA absolutely did not want that to happen!

It was Stalin's expansionist policy the USA feared, not the Japanese unwillingness to surrender...the Japanese wanted to end the war by early 1945, and would have as long as the personal safety of the Emperor was guaranteed. That was the only position they would not have yielded on. (and in the end, MacArthur did guarantee the Emperor's safety, even though the surrender was supposedly unconditional).

So the public was not told the real reason for the A-bombs being dropped...it was done to end the war fast before Stalin could sieze any more territory in Asia.

As it turned out, the Russians did declare war in the last few days and invaded Japanese-occupied Manchuria. This was a profound shock to the Japanese who were hoping for Russian help to negotiate with America and the UK...and it inflenced them at least as much as the A-bombs did to seek an immediate end to the fighting. They were deeply afraid of what the Soviet Army could do to them...having had some nasty experiences fighting the Russians in the late 30s.

If, as I suspect, the USA used the A-bombs to forestall Stalin's war in Asia and end the whole thing fast...well, I can understand why Truman would have done that. But....the public was not told the true reason for doing it. They were told a fairy tale, namely:

"We had to do it to avoid the terrible cost of an invasion of Japan."

They were told nothing about forestalling Russian expansionist wars in Asia.

A classic case of the false dichotomy. And it is still believed today. Russia was the realy enemy by mid-1945. Japan and Germany were finished, kaput, helpless and incapable of threatening American interests any longer, but Stalin was just getting started on doing so in a very serious way, and that was why Truman dropped those A-bombs.

In my opinion.

*****

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:19 PM

Little Hawk,

Have you not been following the news here?
There was no "false dichotomy" there were two and only two choices.

a. Whatever deal the Democrats could piece together.
vs
b. Republican stalls and delays.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM

And my point was: virtually ALL (if not all) politicians frequently use the "false dichotomy" set of only 2 supposed starkly opposite choices in order to advance an argument. It works well rhetorically, and people usually accept it at face value and believe it.

If Obama has done so, well, that's nothing very unusual, is it? I bet every president has done so, and done so numerous times...just like they've all said things like:

"We are at the crossroads..." (What? Again???? Not that fuckin' crossroads again!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 07:39 PM

Jack, I agree with that.

However...there was a choice between a genuine public option and no public option. I'm sorry that they made the wrong choice when it came to that, and it's a great shame. Obama had enormous public support when elected, and he could have pushed for a public option and full universal heath care such as in Europe and gotten it, in my opinion. Instead, the administration gave in to fierce lobbying from the private health insurance industry and gave them mostly just what they wanted.

I'm still in favour of the bill being passed. It had to be. But I'm disappointed in how weak and compromised a bill it turned out to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 08:24 PM

Thank you for the input, Little Hawk. And you too, DougR. And for the name-callers, an especially big thank you. Just for you, I'll put the text that was thuggishly deleted at the start of this post into a webpage. Started it, will have it done in a day or two. Need to find appropriate pictures (oh, this will be fun).

To work, now. Couple of hours tonight, couple tomorrow. This Obama thing will break a LOT of conditioning.

Thank you all again.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 09:35 PM

"thuggishly?"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 09:40 PM

Mr wyziwyg:

You are not listening. Evidently you have swallowed the logical fallacy that there are only two choices, Obama's way or no health care reform at all.

There are several choices besides the Obama way.

If there is anybody here who is against health care reform, not the Obama version of health care reform but other options, speak up.

Is there anybody here that doesn't think medical insurance costs too much and something needs to be done to get the price down so more people can afford it?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:10 PM

Exactly. What needs to be done is a national single payer health plan such as exists in most developed countries at present, and even in a number of Third World countries. In other words, spread the entire cost of health insurance around evenly through the whole population and then everyone can definitely afford it and everyone is covered. It doesn't change the actual medical treatment itself one iota...but it makes it easily affordable for ordinary people.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:39 PM

Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 11:52 PM

You are being ignored ichie, Talking nonsense will lead to that.

Saw, Hawk,

Yes there are thousands of possible ways it could have been configured had there been a sincere effort by the majority of Congress.

But thanks to Lieberman and the obstructive Republicans, we only had two real choices. The Deal Obama worked out or more delays heaped on to the previous hundred years of delay.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 12:01 AM

Methinks we have gfs amongst us.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 12:21 AM

Matters not if I'm ignored now. You folks inspired me to a work of art. The page is a masterpiece, or will be after a little tweaking of the language. That was 67 pages of tough reading.

And now, I have a link that I can deposit wherever the need arises. Bile only begets truth, people. I look forward to the next time you ridicule what I'm saying. Last time it led to this:

http://www2.moment.net/~michael/Firefighters911.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 12:50 PM

I wouldn't be surprised, ichMael, if all campaign teams nowadays at the higher level (presidential) were well aware of a number of the hypnotic techniques you are talking about. After all, the commercial advertising world is certainly well aware of them, and they use them all the time in TV and radio commercials to sell product.

When an election occurs, another product is being sold to the public by the advertising team...a president, a senator, or a representative. It's another commercial product that is being sold, and it's being sold by a consortium of moneyed interests who expect that president, senator or representative to do exactly what they want him (or her) to do FOR THEM once he is elected. And he'd better...or they'll ruin his term in office.

That's the game, right? The public are just the poor sheep who file into the voting booth and rubber stamp the best funded and best advertised candidate. Obama was by far the best funded and best advertised candidate in the last election, so the elite power groups who do the funding had decided at some point that he was their man. I frankly think that initially they were planning to back Hillary Clinton (they had already decided it was time to turf the Republicans out and go through the charade of "rescuing" the nation by bringing the Democrats in...the only question was, which Democrat would be the president?)

And I think it was Hillary Clinton whom they initially planned to crown. Barack Obama, however, proved to be much better able to inspire the general public, even though he carried the very difficult problem of being a black man...a daunting challenge to get the first black man elected president in the USA! But there were problems with getting Hillary elected too, because there was tremendous hostility toward her among a very substantial number of Americans....and there'd never been a female president yet either.

But it had to be either Hillary or Obama. And Obama was far better at inspiring people, which became more and more apparent as time went by.

So they decided to back Obama instead, and he got the greater amount of funding, he got a lot of help from the media...and the deal was done.

McCaine was chosen to lose...just as some others have been chosen to lose in the past, like Michael Dukakis, for instance. McCaine's candidacy was a joke, really, but that's what he was there for, because it was time to switch the game from the Republicans in the White House to the Democrats in the White House. And the big boys with the big money run both of them, and very little changes.

The Great Game goes on.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 02:46 PM

ICky:

That you are unswervingly dedicated to your conspiracy-centric panic view of the world is not untypical of the kind, but pause and consider whether you are actually harming any good causes or good individuals by forwarding this kind of smoke and mirrors.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 02:50 PM

I know literally hundreds of people who supported Obama in the primary and Presidential races. None of them were hypnotized. Most of them don't really pay attention to his speeches.

From my experience, on the ground, in the real world, you are barking at a red herring which is up the wrong tree.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 03:00 PM

Jack:

You crack me up, sir.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Arkie
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 03:12 PM

If by hypnotic one means appealing to people's highest, most honorable standards, telling people the truth, and giving people hope that government can benefit common citizens and not just the wealthy, powerful special interests, you may have something there.

On the other hand there is something hypnotic in the way lunatics such as Limbaugh, Beck and certain Republicans and radical bloggers play on people's fears, prejudices, and hatreds to manipulate them into self-destructive action.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 03:48 PM

A Daniel, sir!! A Daniel!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:13 PM

""That some people believe they're being hypnotized by someone who's able to speak well explains a whole helluva lot.""

There are one or two on here, and a lot more out in the general public, who can quite easily be hypnotised by anyone who can speak at all Jeri.

A bit like a dog, whose head tilts to one side at the sound of a human voice.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 04:56 PM

"If by hypnotic one means appealing to people's highest, most honorable standards, telling people the truth, and giving people hope that government can benefit common citizens and not just the wealthy, powerful special interests, you may have something there."

The only problem is they have to deliver on it or they will be held accountable.

"I want you to hold our government accountable. I want you to hold me accountable."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Arkie
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 06:33 PM

Since we do not have a dictatorship in the USA, a national leader has some limitations. Attempting to deliver on campaign promises is even a bit of a novelty. Obama has done that and even had a measure of success in spite of unprecedented resistance from elected officials and media and internet attacks. And I agree we should hold the government accountable. And so far we have seen an improvement in the economy, job levels restored to at least the level of before Bush economic crash, the winding down of one war front and steps toward ending the other, and the passing of a monumental health care bill in spite of outright lies and misinformation from the opposition. And work still continues on the economic front.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 07:51 PM

Having spent many years living primarially around black people I had the pleasure of enjoyin' many a sermon delivered in a cadence that was comfortable yet inspiring... What some folks see as hyponotic isn't hypnotic at all but rhytum... This is why we enjoy music... It has a beat... A rhytum to it that fits in with our natural rhytums... It's kinda organic...

Obama has learned that speech pattern... It isn't as much African American as much as African American Preacherman... I guess, for alot of white people who haven't spent time in black churches it's kinda like hearing a new sound or style of music... I mean, it ain't gonna hypnotize you but you listen to it because you enjoy it...

I think people do enjoy listening to Obma becauase he has studied those older preacher's speech patterns and learned that groove... That's really what it is: a groove... I mean, you don't hear folks talk that much about "the groove" in the north but you sho nuff hear about "the groove" in the South... The highest compliment that a blues player can get in the South is for someone to say, "Nice groove, ya' got"...

So, hey, I'd just say, "Enjoy it"... You don't need no meds for it... You don't need no doctor... It's pleasing... Especially after a life time of listening to folks who ain't got a groove on... I'd name them but the list is endless...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 09:18 PM

Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques

More organized now, more clear and to the point.

I disagree on the preacherman thing. Obama's an oily huckster.

No one knows where he was born. He was sent to Muslim schools in Indonesia, etc...he's no good ol' southern preacherman. True, he spent some time at Jeremiah's Wright's cesspool church and absorbed a lot of that extreme black hatred of whites, and that "g-d-am America" sermonizing, but you can't put his speech mannerisms down to any of that. The speechifying is studied. That's why he clams up when his teleprompter goes out. His hypnotic paces and leads are marked out in the text and he won't speak unless he can stick to the script.

Obama has no scruples. Did he take a day off from killing in Iraq today? Of course not. Did he withdraw any troops that are guarding the Bush Drug Cartel's opium in Afghanistan? Of course not. Did he put a stop to the U.S.'s torture of people around the world? Of course not. What did he do today? He killed and tortured.

Oh, and he's getting the mob riled up on the home front. He meets Webster Tarpley's qualifications for being a true fascist--he's merging government and the private corporate sector into a fascist regime, and he has a grassroots following. Of course, the followers were brought onboard through deception (hypnotization), but they'll never know that. They've been too deeply brainwashed. So they're going to run around now transferring their insecurities onto "the Republicans" and push things until they start killing Republicans and justifying it because Republicans are against the government (Obama).

I sincerely hope you Obamanoids wake up, because "the Republicans" aren't the problem. Your good intententions are being used by a manipulator to do harm. The manipulator is the the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 09:28 PM

It is far more likely, GfS, that it will be Republicans killing Democrats than the other way around. We are in a truly scary point.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Lox
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 09:41 PM

I am getting sleepy ...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 09:55 PM

Of course, itchy, you disagree with the preacherman thing 'cause I'd doubt if you have sent much time in black churches, or playing and performing acoustic blues, both of which I have and I do...

As for manipulation??? Isn't teaching a form of manipulation??? Isn't selling a form of manipulation... Isn't the art of politics a form of manipulation??? I mean, when John Beohner did his "Hell, no" wasn't that a form of manipulation??? Hey, manipulation is everywhere... It's in soap powder ads... It is used to sell stomach relief... Headach releif... Cars, shirts... It's all manipulation...

I mean, even here, this very second I am trying to manipulate folks thinking just as you did, itchy, when you posted so let's not get all bent out of shape about folks trying to maipulate us... Lots of that manipulation is a good thing... If the stove is hot and I tell you not to touch it that is manipulation...

But, horrors... The president trying to manipulate US!!! Oughtta get the folks running and screaming theu the streets like in some 50s Japanese horror flick...lol...

As for Jerimiah Wright's being a cesspool... Hope yer not a Christain 'cause that's the kind of judgemental crap that really pisses off God... BTW, how much time did you spend in that cess pool before you discovered it was a cesspool... Oh??? None??? Geese, a little false witness there, God, to add to this persons blasphomy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:17 PM

Well, there's manipulation, and then there's criminal manipulation. What Obama did to get elected was criminal manipulation. And now, since he's waging unjust wars, he's a mass murderer. His actions are not defensible.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:35 PM

Mushroom clouds, uranium tubes, al-qeada connections, Niger, WMDs...

The list goes on and on.... Upwards of a million people died from Bush's manipulations... The cost of the Iarq invasion and occupation will far exceed 30 years of health reform but...

Ummmmmm, for the record... Which wars has Obama started that you consider to be "unjust", itchy??? I don't recall him starting any but, hey, maybe I was out mushroom huntin' or playin' blues in some juke joint when the war was called up, I donno... But, ya know... I do read the Washington Post an' I would think that I would have heard about any new wars... Oh yeah, the war on stupid Republicans... I forgot that one... Yeah, yer right... That is unjust... Well, maybe no unjust but silly... Yeah, it's silly callin' up a war when the folks yer gonna go to war against is allready at war amongst themselves... Know what I mean???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 11:44 PM

You're evading ichMael's point, Bobert, ol' pal...or you're just missing it entirely. He didn't say that Obama had started any wars. He said that Obama is "waging unjust wars", and that is absolutely correct. Obama is waging 2 unjust wars, the 2 wars that Bush started. That is the mass murder that ichMael is talking about.

He didn't say anything about Obama waging war on Republicans either. You don't seem to be reading ichMael with any great care, Bobert, because he isn't defending the Republicans! He regards both the Republicans and the Democrats as people who are waging unjust wars in the Middle East and defrauding the public in various ways.

I have to agree with him there, although I rather like Obama, personally speaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 11:54 PM

It is most unfortunate that you have posted, the processes, to my potentations promenance upon the mudcat.

For over a decade the wiccan women have swooned wanting, wiggling, for more words of wisdom.

Now ALL is revealed and the magic is gone.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Woe. I am undone. Mortal eyes are not supposed to see these things....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 12:04 AM

IChmael, you must have deep brown eyes.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 03:22 AM

Yep. In it ankle deep. Upside down.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:40 AM

""Well, there's manipulation, and then there's criminal manipulation. What Obama did to get elected was criminal manipulation. And now, since he's waging unjust wars, he's a mass murderer. His actions are not defensible.""

Whadda matter Baby?

Pissed off because the nasty black man dodged all the repub dirty tricks and ambushes, and won, in spite of the rednecks intimidation of voters by wearing their guns to political meetings?

The only criminal manipulation was by the Repubs, and it failed.

Get over it!!

He beat you, and now he's getting on with the job.

What are your kind doing?....Bricks and Bullets through windows, and futile stonewall attempts to block new legislation.

Ask not what Obama is doing wrong. Ask what the Repubs are doing right.........Answer to both questions:- Not a damn thing!!

Then you will know who cares for America, and the American people.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:58 AM

That's about it, Don...

itchy even went on record of calling black church he has never stepped fott in a cesspool??? I mean, seems that is not only unGodly, as if he cares, but downright pre-judical... I mean, wouldn't someone have to have spent time somewhere before making such a pronouncement??? It's kinda like a guy who reviews resturants doing a review on something that he heard from one other individual about the resturant... Throw in a complete misunderstanding of the black culture, history and mix in stuff taken completely outta context, al la FOX/FIX news and you have some serious bigotry going on here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 12:54 PM

It's a shame that Democrats are so fixated on race. But then that's to be expected. Bill Ayers said America would have to undergo a race war, and he's now advising Obama. And Obama's mesmerising with his speeches, so of course he's driving his sheep toward race war. A pity.

HERE is a black preacher who's addressing the race issue in a unique way. Not sure what to make of him, but he's no Obama supporter. The affair he's talking about can be found described HERE.

Ten minute youtube video and a link to Amazon.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 01:31 PM

GfS, you should be ashamed of yourself. Sinclair's story has long been discredited. Don't tell us you believe him- so why do you pass it on?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM

Ahhh now I see your problem, lack of information and context.

allow me to enlighten...

No one knows where he was born.

He was born on Oahu in Hawaii. His biography says that, His birth certificate says that. His mother said that and the Republican Governor of Hawaii and John McCain have said that.



He was sent to Muslim schools in Indonesia,

He attended a public school in Indonesia for a couple of years which was mainly attended by Muslims. He also attend public school in Hawaii and a private Prep school in Hawaii. He attended a University in California, another in New York and did a Post Graduate Degree in the same University and G.W. Bush, The same Law school as the Clintons.


etc...he's no good ol' southern preacherman.

No he is not a preacherman. He is a politician.

True, he spent some time at Jeremiah's Wright's cesspool church and absorbed a lot of that extreme black hatred of whites,

Don't be silly. His mother was white, He was raised by Whites. His dad was not even American. He no doubt learned some things from Wright, But saying that he "absorbed hatred" is just silly.


and that "g-d-am America" sermonizing, but you can't put his speech mannerisms down to any of that. The speechifying is studied.

Of course his techniques are studied. That is what smart people do.

That's why he clams up when his teleprompter goes out.

No he doesn't, I have seen him on television and in person speak without a prompter. I have seen him in press conferences and I saw him make fools of the Republican Congressmen without a prompter. Don't underestimate him. He is obviously a lot more clever than you think.

His hypnotic paces and leads are marked out in the text and he won't speak unless he can stick to the script.

You overestimate the power of hypnosis. To the extent that it does work it is limited a small minority who are vunerable and even then it can't be used to command them to go against their nature.

I think that it is fair to say that anyone, if there is anyone, who has been hypnotized by Obama (or Bush) are hypnotized because they wanted to be. The most effective way to get people to follow it to tell them what they want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM

Hey Bobert:

What is the difference between black people and white people?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 01:45 PM

As a professional hypnotist for 15 years and with over 10,000 clients, I found the 'argument' to persuade the reader to believe that Obama uses hypnotic techniques was more hypnotic than any speech Barak has ever made.

Effective communication, including music, will by the nature of the human mind will be hypnotic in once sense or another.

Using visualizations in communication will enhance meaning and comprehension. To suggest that is a bad or scary thing is (to borrow a phrase from one of the best communicator's on mudcat)
"a pile of bull shit 10 feet high".

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: DougR
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 02:25 PM

Bill D's contribution: "There are none so deaf as those who will not hear." I suppose that's the reason you will not tune in to Fox News Network, right?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 02:54 PM

Fox "News" Network is for those who do not want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Lox
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 06:35 PM

And as if hypnosis wasn't enough ...

   ... Lip Syncing? ...



God Bless the Onion News Network!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:00 PM

First Ashlee Simpson.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:04 PM

Comes from preaching, an art practiced in the Black culture. It's a known style of communicating.


On thing, the GOP operates in fear and hate. "The party of hell no!"
Obama is the embodiment of optimism. "Yes we can".

I don't agree with everything Obama does but his tone is more refreshing than the
Cheney/Bush fear-mongering and disregard for the English language.

Obama can at least put a sentence together unlike Palin who sounds like
a Valley Girl (gag me with a spoon).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:03 PM

So, itchy... Answer me this... How many times have you been in Reverand Wright's church??? I mean, I recall back in the 60's having my families church split down the middle over Vietnam and the minister fired for saying things that were purdy couaheous for those times... Had those been played on the air then alot of folks would have lined up to lynch the man... But many of us had known him for years and knew what kind of man he was and what was in his heart... That is what matters... Not a sound clip from one sermon outta hundreds, perhaps thousands, that he had given in that church... There is a lot more to minstry than sermons and Sunday... Those are part of the church community... There are the Wednesday night pot-luck suppers, the summer picnics, the fund raisers for communities in Thrd World countries, the prayer groups, Bible study, visitations of the infirmed, funerals, weddings, etc., etc... The church is a communtiy that cannot be judged by someone who has never stepped foot in that church...

You should be ashamed, itchy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 11:40 PM

Darren Brown NLP video

Interesting video about the BMX bike. Brown convinces a man he wants a bike as a gift, when the man actually wanted something else.

Larry Sinclair on Obama

Forgot this Sinclair thing was on the internet.

I don't know what to make of Manning. Powerful clip. White people gonna riot. Long-legged Mack Daddy. Manning is either a govt shill trying to divide and instill fear, or he's sincere. He's addressing a black audience with that clip, and he's trying to warn blacks that Obama needs to be dealt with. Seems he's genuinely distraught about what's going on. Sinclair seems sincere too. He HAD to go public. If he'd kept quiet, he would have been killed. Now there's no need to kill him--his story is out in the open.

And meanwhile, Obama is currently destroying the Congressional Black Caucus. Liberal blacks are a threat to his fascism, so they have to go. Do an internet search for the Rense.com article. It gives precise details about what's going on. Obama and Emanuel are stripping the most influential blacks in congress of their powers.

But there is hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:06 AM

As a former #1 Sales Rep and mgr. for a Fortune 500 and also a sales trainer for that company, the Derron Brown thing is laughable. It uses elements of sales techniques but does a very poor job overall, Its a very bad variant on the "Magic Card" technique of controlling through questioning (which Brown does very poorly).

Now HERE'S something that needs no selling at all. Most folks around here can readily see that old icky is an ignofuckinramus!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:22 AM

It is quite true that most people are not all that susceptible to hypnotism in a controlling sense, specially in the sense that they can't be hypnotized into doing something they don't want to. I have sat in audiences and seen professional hypnotism acts, and I've seen how repetitive phrases, music, and a certain form of speaking are used to induce a hypnotic trance in members of the public. I was among about 100 people out of an audience of thousands who volunteered and went up on stage as subjects for a very well known hypnotist...Reveen.

Well, it was fun. We all got up on the stage and he proceeded to suggest that we do various stuff...all applaud...all jog in position...and turn around...all laugh...and so on. And we did.

It was quite interesting how he went about doing it, but I never lost awareness that he was making the suggestions, and I was choosing to follow them, because:

1. it was fun to do it
2. I saw no reason to object to doing it

Eventually, however, he asked us to do something that I didn't particularly want to do, so I just stood there. Within moments I found an assistant tugging on my arm and I was directed back to my seat in the audience. And the same thing happened with most of the other 100 people in the next few minutes...they eventually decided they didn't want to follow some command, and were directed back to their seats.

Finally Reveen had narrowed it down to just 3 people, and it was quite evident that those 3 people had gone completely into a deep trance and had no idea any longer that they were standing on a stage being directed by a hypnotist. Reveen was then able to command those three people to do all kinds of weird and funny stuff...and to experience all kinds of imaginary realities which only they were aware of...and they clearly thought those realities were totally real. They had forgotten entirely that they were in an arena and they were unconscious of anything except what he told them to think about.

He did not ask them to do anything harmful or particularly embarrassing...as he could certainly be open to legal repercussions if he were to do that.

It was quite amazing how disconnected those people were until he ended their trances at prearranged signals which he had instructed them to respond to to end the trance. It was also quite clear afterward that they didn't remember any of it.

I spoke to one of those people, a young woman, after the show as she was leaving with her family. She clearly had not the slightest idea what I was talking about, and did not remember being hypnotized.

Now....this whole episode demonstrated something quite interesting. Only 3 out of about 100 people were so susceptible to hypnosis that they went into a deep trance and forgot about normal reality and became very malleable to the will of the hypnotist. That's significant. I do not think most people can easily be hypnotized.

What is easy to do, though, is to influence most people...to persuade them....providing they like you in the first place, providing you are a really good speaker, providing they like the way you look, providing you have charisma, providing you are famous, etc...

And all politicians do their utmost to influence and persuade people. That's their job. I don't call it hypnosis, but in some cases it can approach hypnosis. What a politician who is really good at it does is this: he taps into people's basic motivations. He either taps into negative stuff like fear, anger, resentment, hatred, "getting even", etc...

Or...he taps into positive stuff like pride, patriotic fervor, hope, faith in someone or something, treasured dreams, etc...

Again, I don't call that hypnosis, I call it influencing and persuading people. I'd much rather see people persuaded through positive motivations than through negative ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:34 AM

"Now....this whole episode demonstrated something quite interesting. Only 3 out of about 100 people were so susceptible to hypnosis that they went into a deep trance and forgot about normal reality and became very malleable to the will of the hypnotist. That's significant. I do not think most people can easily be hypnotized."

Keep in mind those people were self selected from a group of people who self selected by choosing to go to the show.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:14 AM

Maybe my next focus should be on self-hypnosis, or more properly, self delusion. Now if I could only find an example who claims to be a number # 1 salesperson, and a former world-class teacher, space cadet and so on.

Actually I think next I'll work up a piece on the role of television on hypnotism. I mean, PBS has you people convinced it's not government funded. That's some powerful juju.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:22 AM

The Black Caucus thing is interesting. If I wanted to press on that nerve here, the Obamanoids would go into hysterical denial, as they did at the beginning of this thread when a crack began to develop in their programming. They could SEE, perhaps for the first time, exactly HOW they've been lied to, and the reaction was to revert to infantile thumbsucking and name-calling.

The Black Caucus thing would elicit the same response, if I hammered on it. Obama's brutalizing black men. The men who are most responsible for getting him where he is. And he's killing their careers. Why? I could do a beautiful hatchet job on him for that, and keep you folks posted as I did, and you would whimper and wet yourselves through the whole process. Say it ain't so, say it ain't so. You'd become feral in your name-calling and... You know the drill. Really not worth it. Just go to Rense.com and read all about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 02:32 AM

Good lord, man. Whatever has given you the idea that you- of all people and with your history - are smarter than the people here? It is laughable. And sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Acorn4
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 07:46 AM

I thought Obama's speeches were written by Bob the Builder!

"Can we fix it? Yes, we can!"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 08:06 AM

Unfortunatley, the Dems have learned a valuable lesson from former Repub campaign successes and that is "KISS", "Keep It Simple Stupid"... That is a sad commentary on the electorate but an accurate one... We have reduced way too many people who vote to people who only have time to take in bumber sticker political positions...

"Yes, we can" is no different than "When guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns" or "Choose life, You mother did"... None of these really deal with complex issues but with a dumbed down population that is increasingly being striped of critical thinking skills it is purdy much the way it is these days...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:16 AM

ichMael

You are not the first conservative crusader to march in here like Napoleon hoping to conquer us with your logic. You won't be the first to slink away with your tail between your legs, like Bush, at Obama's inauguration.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:23 AM

""Good lord, man. Whatever has given you the idea that you- of all people and with your history - are smarter than the people here?""

Or, for that matter, smarter than the average vegetable?

Time to resurface the tinfoil cap.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Lox
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM

Spaw,

Its worth checking out more Derren Brown.

I haven't looked at the link here, but there are plenty of great examples of him doing some great tricks.

Like collecting winnings on a losing dog at the races, or telling strangers their names by reading their eye's and their reflexive reactions to very subtle stimuli - getting a whole shopping centre full of peopl to raisetheir hands simultaneously yet not knowing why ... then there's his theatre stuff ...

Have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:24 PM

Oh, I'm not saying I'm any smarter than anyone else. Probably about average. But I have more focus when it comes to some things. And I don't like mob thuggery.

That's why this thread is so interesting, in my opinion. It began with my assertions, and they were met with name-calling and villification. The mob trying to shout down an unpopular opinion. Rather than give in to that, I decided to give the name-callers even MORE of what had upset them. That's how you deal with thugs and mobs--when they push, you push back twice as hard.

So this should be a good object lesson in that, and also in what David Manning says at one of my earlier links. He says "white people gonna riot," but it's not just whites. And that's where Democratic true believers are making a fundamental mistake. They think the whole "debate" in American politics right now is about race, but it's not.   The concern of moderates and conservatives is how the country's being destroyed financially by BOTH parties. Obama = Bush.

They tell us we have the ballot box or the bullet box, but they always fail to mention the free exchange of information. I'm simply trying to avoid bloodshed by pointing out some things.

Look at the Philadelphia Flash Mob story. You can throw together a mob in minutes now. And most of these mob members will be younger, probably Obama supporters. Mussolini would have LOVED it if he could have thrown together this type of spontaneous mob. Hitler too. And now, in America, Democrats are being told they're being shot at. Being told the Republicans are out to kill the president. All kinds of nonsense. So, sure as sunrise, the feds are going to start moulding all this into mob action. A false report of a shooting and death, a mob, ten people ACTUALLY die...

You folks need to wake up. You're being conditioned to do a job.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM

Did you notice, GfS, that David Manning's blatherings were singularly free of actual charges? No, he prefers to rail and rant and predict stuff he knows little of.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: DougR
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 02:07 PM

It has always interested me that when liberals (of which there are a few here on the Mudcat)cannot find good arguments to counter statements made by those whose opinions are different than theirs, they attack the poster.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 02:21 PM

Yes, they do, Doug, and it's shameful. It's one of the reasons I frequently break ranks with my natural political allies here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 02:56 PM

I dunno'.......WHen you have repeatedly tries good arguments and logic and it becomes obvious nothing you say is even willing to be discussed, you can either drop out of the non-conversation or have a good time with some jackass. I tried many years ago with Conrad for instance, but now I just enjoy the abuse and so does he!

I don't think I have ever been abusive to Doug........While I think him often wrong, I respect that he has a reasonable thought process and sometimes starts from a point far different than mine. That's life and good discussion.......plus Doug never gets abusive or "know it all" himself.

Ichy's history here is very much one of "You poor deluded fools." You start a conversation that way and/or with some "out where the buses don't run" blather, than it is unlikely anyone will come out well.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:09 PM

>>>It has always interested me that when liberals (of which there are a few here on the Mudcat)cannot find good arguments to counter statements made by those whose opinions are different than theirs, they attack the poster.<<<

You're problem DougR is that there are just as many non-liberals who do that. But you just fault the liberals. What is up with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:19 PM

""And that's where Democratic true believers are making a fundamental mistake. They think the whole "debate" in American politics right now is about race, but it's not.   The concern of moderates and conservatives is how the country's being destroyed financially by BOTH parties. Obama = Bush.""

First off, it's not the Democrats that are making this a race issue, it's the gun toting redneck repubs who turn up at public meetings with Ole Betsy strapped to their waists (those that have waists), to let the "Uppity N****r" know what to expect.

You know the guys I'm talking about, the kind you call "Friend". The "Good Ole Boys" who burn crosses, and shoot holes in windows. The kind from whom cattle need the protection of a large white "COW" painted on their flanks.

As for Obama = Bush, well nobody with more than one brain cell would subscribe to that, and if you believed it, you've spent the whole thread slagging off one without a single adverse comment about the other. Your position is clear from the title of the thread, and any attempted volte face now simply screams hypocrite.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:21 PM

You're right that ichMael does add fuel to the fire with his "you poor deluded fools" approach, Spaw. No doubt about that, and it deserves mention.

I guess the main thing is when I see one person on one side doing that....and 15 or 20 on the other side behaving just as badly back to him...I tend often to sympathize to some extent with the guy that's outnumbered.

I also feel embarrassed when people on my own general side of a political issue fall into lazy, chauvinistic thinking and knee jerk ridicule of opponents. It embarasses me more when my political allies do that....perhaps because I expect better behaviour than that from them in the first place. ;-) (if you get what I mean)

See...if Sarah Palin acts like an intemperate jerk, it doesn't bother me much, I expect she might anyway, but it would bother me a lot if Dennis Kucinich did, because I expect a far better standard from him.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:23 PM

"...one of the reasons I frequently break ranks with my natural political allies here"--If I knew it was that easy to control LH's opinions ;-)...

I think the reactions to stupid shit like this are because it's stupid shit. Somebody comes in and says, in effect, "This person is manipulating you people because you're too stupid to realize what he's doing. It takes someone as enlightened as me to recognize the truth. Let me explain to you poor naive people."

People tend to resent that sort of approach. Personally, I think that I'm already a bit ahead of people who believe it's likely a lot of other folks can fall for that shit. They DO fall for other types of manipulative shit, and this thread is a perfect example. Of course, if you KNOW someone's trolling and you still want to play with them, it's the suckers who try to stop it who really are the manipulated. Maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:31 PM

I think that if you start from the beginning and read through, you will see that ich started out getting a lot more respect than he was giving.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:00 PM

Whatever.

Anyway, there are some genuinely interesting issues that people could discuss on this thread, such as the nature of hypnotism and how most people respond to it, for one.

The manipulative nature of ALL poltical campaigns, for another, and how people respond to that.

The common use of hyperbole and exaggerated rhetoric by most politicians, for another.

The common use of misleading poll results (which are usually created through carefully worded questions), for another.

Whether or not polls should determine national policy in any case, for another.

What a politician's duty really is? To lead? Or to follow? (by simply doing what the majority of people apparently want him to do at any particular moment)

How much people's partisan loyalties affect their ability to be objective in assessing any political situation...

All these are worthier subjects than discussing how much of a wingnut ichMael is or how deluded the various "liberals" here are, wouldn't you say? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:10 PM

What Jeri said... Plus, after 30 years of failed conservative policies that have done nuthing but inflict war after war on our planet, redestrivbute wealth to the upper 5% and pollute our planet I get more that a little pissed off at their arrogance that they have the better ideas... We have seen their ideas play out for 3 long miserable decades... This ain't about Dems and Repubs... It's about sane policies that are both pro-human and pro-Earth...

Period!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:11 PM

Little Hawk

Whatever..

Why don't you start a thread for that stuff if you find it interesting. Take away the politics and some other people who are interested might want to discuss it with you.

This thread is about a troll trying to convince people like me and Carol and Mick and Spaw that Obama has hypnotized us and we should wake up and agree with him. We can forgive you for being smug and condescending. We know you. We don't know anything about ichmael other than the insults he has heaped upon us.

I think that if you think you are in some way helping Ichmael's cause by siding with him you ought to reconsider. We all know that you do such things as a matter of course. And encouraging him just gets him to post more shit and then for us to tell him that he is posting shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:28 PM

Well put, JtS.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:34 PM

You want the truth!?? You can't handle the ttuth!!!

But here it is anyway! Obama was sired by a hyena and his mother was a jackal bitch. He was born in Kenya, on the veldt under an acacia tree. Deserted by his mother, he was suckled by a female wildebeest who raised him as a Muslim (although how she suckled him while wearing that burka is unclear).

As a teenager, he wandered through the Himalayas and met a holy man in a mountaintop community, the one that James Hilton used as the model for Shangri-La in his novel, Lost Horizon. The holy man taught him how to gesture hypnotically like Mandrake the Magician and bend people to his will.

This explains how he was able, with a very few words, to persuade all those republican elected officials to walk in like zombies and, without argument, vote for his health care bill, and why we now have a single-payer health care system modeled after the best health care systems in Europe.

Beware!! He may gesture hypnotically again and bring about World Peace and Universal Prosperity!

God help American Capitalism if THAT happens!!

How do I know this? There is a satellite dish on the roof of the apartment building in which I live, put there by one of the tenants to receive television signals, and although my TV isn't hooked up to the system, through this antenna, I receive signals on my fillings. The signals come from Arcturus 12, where they are monitoring our civilization, and they keep my informed of what's really going on here on earth.

I thought you'd all like to know.

Don Firth

P. S. But seriously, folks, is there no end to the really asinine lengths that right-wingers will go in their efforts to slam Obama? Not that I've noticed.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:39 PM

Relax, Jack. My desire to tone down the personal insults flying between people on this forum whenever politics, global warming or religion are being discussed is no threat to anyone's existence here. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 06:00 PM

McLuhan had Obama down better than all this stuff. Obama:

1) Looks beautiful on television. His color and speaking style (which was softened up for the American people by Bill Cosby) are perfect for television.

2) TV works best at both ends of the temperature spectrum. Obama is "cool" and comes across as someone who is completely at ease with himself.

3) When he gives a really good speech, he "hypnotizes" not by any fancy rhetoric, but by the compelling logical structure of his arguments. He is the first person in a very, very long time who can actually make a substantive argument that goes on for more than one sentence. Once you are locked into it -- and if you watch the beginnings of his speeches, he is very careful to move down the runway -- he is just interesting to listen to: he moves through arguments. He infuses his arguments with emotion, and vice versa.   He almost never rises to emotional heights, but he has what one can call emotional lengths. Even if you disagree with him. Some of this is his professorial and legalistic background. Anyone who has ever watched a Perry Mason show can get a feel for how mesmerizing a speech to the jurors can be.

4) His trouble is that when he isn't giving a really good speech -- when he stops being emotionally attached to his arguments, there is a tendency in the listener to back off slightly. What is amazing is how seldom he is boring.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: mousethief
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 06:24 PM

ichMael said

"That's why this thread is so interesting, in my opinion. It began with my assertions, and they were met with name-calling and villification. The mob trying to shout down an unpopular opinion."

No, a stupid opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 07:04 PM

I once had a totally fruitless discussion with a fellow who stated something completely ridiculous. When I questioned what he was saying, he countered by saying that I was the victim of a "meme."

A meme is a collection of social attitudes, political beliefs, or behaviors that are said (by the advocates of the idea of memes) to spread through a culture like a virus and infect people's minds. This idea doesn't have all that much credence with philosophers, psychologists, sociologists, et al, but it made a lot of money for Richard Dawkins (whose latest target is religion—which I believe he considers to be nothing but a meme), who put forth the idea of memes in the first place.

The concept is very useful in argument and debate, because it allows the advocate of memes to "negate" any logical objection or refutation of his argument by saying, "you believe the way you do because of the meme you have accepted!"

Any further objection from you, or to the idea of memes, is met with a smug smile and a remark like, "See? That just shows how strongly the meme has a hold on you."

Thereby, logic is set dispensed with.

Don't buy it!

Our friend ichMael is merely using a variation on this idea.

He'll never yield to logical debate. Best to just ignore him.

Don Firth

P. S. Now, note how he answers this (if at all). One can predict it quite easily.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 08:06 PM

Hey, I don't mind the antagonism, folks. Since I signed up here I've been lambasted quite a bit. And that's led to what I think of as my 3 "mudcat pages."

WTC Towers did NOT fall because of fire

A Tale of Two Conspiracies

Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques

You see, the internet has taken the place of the printing press. What the Sons of Liberty and patriots did with handbills and pamphlets in the 1760's and early 1770's, we can now do with a computer, a few basic webpage design skills, and the internet.

So, as David Manning would say, "go ahead onnn with your baaad selves." I don't mind. The name-calling just stirs me to action. You may not agree with the action, but that's not really my concern.

Did any of you read about how Obama and Rahm Emanuel are destroying the Congressional Black Caucus? Don't you think that's odd? If Republicans took in after Rangel and Conyers you'd be screaming "racist." I mean, it's obvious to me that you're being manipulated, somehow, and the hypnotic possibility is very real. Too much that Obama does when he's speaking fits in with the Ericksonian methods. He's busted. Now it's on to something else.

I need to spend some time trying to get my state rep and senator to NULLIFY the Aetna insurance takeover of the federal govt (at least nullify the takeover in my state), and then I could either do a page about the Congressional Black Caucus and Obama, or I could do a page about Obama being set up for assassination. Remember when his wife wore that black dress with the red hourglass shape on the front?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/05/michelle_obama_4.jpg

That was the night Obama won the election, and she was dressed in a way that suggested a black widow spider. "Widow" was implanted in the minds of those watching. And all through the runup to the election Obama did the anchoring hand gestures when he was talking about JFK and Lincoln (two assassinated presidents). He would talk about them in a speech, and then later in the speech he would make the hand gestures and point them at himself, thus using a signal to transfer all the warm and fuzzy feelings he'd just stirred up about Kennedy and Lincoln to himself.

Anyway, he did as the script required, and in his mind the end result was to get elected. But not in the minds of the speechwriters. By seeing him connect himself to Kennedy and Lincoln over and over and over, we've been trained to classify him with assassinated presidents. And then there are the millions of photos connecting him with the two men. So, we're being prepped for his killing, Michelle as the widow and so on. Or so it seems. I may look into that. Or the Black Caucus thing. Not sure which. Maybe I should ask which idea you hate more...good indicator that I'm on the right track.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 08:41 PM

>>>Relax, Jack. My desire to tone down the personal insults flying between people on this forum whenever politics, global warming or religion are being discussed is no threat to anyone's existence here.<<

Your desire is not at issue.

Its your tendency to encourage the trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:36 PM

Well, I wouldn't mind the trolls if I didn't have the suspision that they are on corporate payrolls and I'm wondering why our little music community is so important to these folks???

I mean, lets look at the current batch... Thay have goobs and goobs of time to put together these long winded posts with all kinds of links to all kinds of obscure websites... And they go on and on and with these links... Heck, if they had the time to find and read these websites then why don't they just do what the real muscians do here in the real musican's joint and say whatever it is that they have come up with thru "critical thinking" and make their arguments??? But no!!! It's another 10,000 word term paper with another 15 blue clickies!!! Like how many people have that kinda time on their hands??? I surely don't... I work for a living and I suspect that many others do here, as well... Then there are gigs to reherse for and play and, and, and.... But...

...turn yer back to go to work and these same people have added yet another dozen college length term papers with another dozen blue clickies????

Yeah, my fellow Mudders... Me thinks we are being invaded by professional Republican bloggers who have been assigned to our little corner of Paradise jst to, ahhhhh, fuck with folk singers!!!

I mean, how else would they have all this time and all these obscure rightie-sites all lined up with more propaganda than anyone with a real job can really get thru, let alone respond...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:04 PM

Bobert,

I think somewhere on the internet there is a big pile of this stuff that they just steal.

They are just a bunch of cut and pasters.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:30 PM

Aw, now, Bobert, don't go digging out the tinfoil hat on us!! LOL!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:11 AM

So many topics to address, but I've finally found the one.

Obama's a Fascist

This is provable in SO many different ways. Lots of cool pics of him with his corporate mafioso associates, too. This one will leave Obamanoids sitting dazed at their keyboards. Even his wife's family is involved, with union busting. So many ways to go with this, but need to keep it simple.

Lots of work, but as the Brits say, Well begun is half done. Or something like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: DougR
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:19 AM

Bobert, you been dipping into the koolaid again? I can't believe that you actually believe the "corporate" types gives a hoot about opinions on the Mudcat. Why would they? We are just plain old common folks aren't we? You think the fact we like folk music sets them off or something?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:30 AM

Obama, by nature of his post, balances the interests of corporate AMerica with a lot of other things, Icky-whack. He so much further away from Fascism than W was that your trotting out this sort of bullpucky makes you look ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 02:55 AM

Looking at ichMael's previous posts on other threads, I'd say that he never met a conspiracy theory that he didn't love--and embrace wholeheartedly.

Or so it would appear. Actually, though, I think he's just a wind-up artist.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:21 AM

I like the "icky-whack", Amos... It's better than my "itchy"...

Now as for my tin-foil-hat suspicions??? Well, it's still alot of work just finding the right, ahhhhh, correct rightie-blog stuff that is somewhat appropriate... I mean, if the thread title is "Obama is an alien from Mars" and they put up a "3-screener" on how Obama really didn't make those two three point basketball shot during the campaign then they gonna look silly, right, I mean, correct...

(The righties lookin' "silly", Boberdz???)

Nevermind... This is going in circles...

BTW, ya'll did ya know that Obama can't be an American citizen becasue he was actaully born on Mars of Martian parentage???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 04:17 PM

...and without ever diverting his eyes away from the teleprompter, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 04:28 PM

Hey Bobert:

What is the difference between black people and white people?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:09 PM

"Bill D's contribution: "There are none so deaf as those who will not hear." I suppose that's the reason you will not tune in to Fox News Network, right?

DougR

Well, Doug...I have been out of town for 3 days, and was just casually reading this thread to catch up....but then I saw your post, so I will respond.

Downstairs, I have a large TV set with PIP (Picture-in-picture) so that I can sorta follow 2 programs at a time....then, I also have connected a VCR that I can tune to a 3rd program, and change one of the 2 programs I am monitoring. When important events are happening, I often monitor CNN, MSNBC...and Fox, because it is important to KNOW how various viewpoints are processing and interpreting the news. (Of course, I will also monitor C-Span live, and CBS at times)

It is VERY educational to follow breaking news and compare not only what is BEING said, but how well certain events are being covered at all. THIS is how I learned that Fox News is on an almost continuous cycle of mouthing denunciations of almost anything Democrats do, and why they employ 'news' people who say whatever the official conservative 'line' is today! I cannot conceive of ever being able to really comprehend world events from **FOX** versions of the data....but I **DO** tune in at odd times.

Yes...of course I prefer the viewpoint of 'other' news and analysis, (not because they are the Liberal equivalent of a Glen Beck's ranting or a Sean Hannity's distortion, or Michelle Malkin's total disregard for truth and accuracy), but because they give me information, and back up their analysis with facts....and they occasionally issue corrections when they miss something or accidentally get a fact wrong. Fox will continue to repeat the same PROVEN error for days or weeks, simply because it's really hard to explain that you flatly got it wrong ... even though it sounds SO good as a talking point!

Now Doug... I can't tell from one post whether you were just baiting me, or whether you really believe I get all my news in some filtered, one-sided bucket....but I have ALWAYS taken seriously the adage "Know Thine Enemy", and I try VERY hard to not criticize stuff I haven't read or studied.

Would you care to enlighten me as to how YOU learn, process and analyze the news about our country and world?

(and by the way...I even vote for decent Republicans occasionally....it depends on what they do and say)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:10 PM

Deep subconscious racism is one of the most important foundations of rightwingnut dogmatism.

The basic stance epitomized by "regular folks" like Joe the Plumber (remember him?) is this: Any move designed to have the government give a break to common people, as opposed to big business, is something I DON'T NEED. "Good people like me" (read: working white people) are doing just fine on our own without "handouts," and anyone who thinks they might need help with, say, a half-million dollars in medical bills for cancer treatment, is obviously lazy, shiftless, and not a "real American."

Us real Americans need nothing more from the government than the assurance that huge corporations and rich individuals are free of taxation. Why's that? Because we might get rich ourselves one day, and won't want to pay for anyone else's problems. Those other inferior humans who are looking for a break are just not as capable of achieving overnight wealth as we are.

This kind of delusional thinking is possible ONLY for those who believe that they're BETTER, in some basic, inborn way, that the masses of no-good humanity with whom they live within the boundaries of the nation.

Now, the poor fools who think along these lines will swear up and down that they are not racists, that they are completely cordial in dealing with the black folks that they encounter in everyday life, they are are not cross-burners, etc., etc. And they are correct, as far as it goes. But deep in their hearts, they have not overcome the prejudices that they learned in their youth, and their entire world-view is predicated on an unfounded sense of superiority. They are not really sold on the idea that all of us are brothers and sisters.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:26 PM

That is an important point that Bill D makes. As is well known in these precincts, I have strong opinions and argue them forcefully. As you might guess, that carries over into my 3D conversations as well. I am often accused of being difficult to debate because, "you are a natural born debator, it's in your genes...." which is usually said with a bit of venom by someone who debates using someone elses talking points. I find these folks, regardless of party or persuasion, to be intellectually lazy. What they don't know about me is that I learned many years ago from a debate coach to challenge myself harder than my opposition can challenge me. In order to effectively debate, one has to be able to anticipate the opposition arguments and counter them. What this often does for me is affect my opinions. One's opposition is rarely completely wrong.

So, Doug, it might surprise you to know that many of us watch Fox "News". While I will agree that other channels also have a point of view, there is no one that is there equal in trying to promote a particular point of view.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:45 PM

Does no-one ever become tired of providing the same factual information and making the same logical points over and over- in some cases literally for years- to Douggie-boy to absolutely no avail?

Don't you have more productive things to do- like pounding salt down rat-holes for example?

This particular horse has been [brain]dead from the get-go, but y'all keep on a-beatin'.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:18 PM

Some seem to imply that whatever Obama 'does' is sneaky or cheating...or worse.
I remember many years ago watching a cocky young guitar player trying to follow what a friend of mine was doing on the banjo....it was baffling him.
My friend said "What's wrong?"
The kid replied "That's HARD!"
So my friend picked up his own guitar and played the tune...with ease.... fingers barely moving on the frets. (Seems he had his guitar in open tuning)

The kid watched for a bit then blurted.. "You're CHEATING!"

So...my friend took the kid's guitar out of his hands and played the tune the hard way...with the fancy fingering!

After that, the kid watched and listened a lot, having realized he had a LOT to learn, and that talent was not necessarily cheating or a sneaky trick.

I wonder if those who make snide remarks about Obama 'using a teleprompter' or giving excellent speeches will ever realize that he is just an intelligent, practiced speaker who CAN speak quite well without a teleprompter, and who knows his subject matter.

(DO remember, good 'ol Ronnie Reagan began as an actor and had spent many years learning how to deliver his message. I don't remember anyone suggesting it was 'unfair'.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:44 PM

What ecxactly do you mean, Sawz??? I mean, yeah... There are differences bewteen black folks and white folks... Exactly what aspect do you wnat to discuss and why??? Please... No cut 'n posts... Just answer the question and if it looks like something worth talking about we can do that.... If it's yer usual... You know, partisan bullshit then...


...maybe not...


As fir hitting the nail on the head, p-gator has is completely correct... He is describing the "institutional racism" that many white people have... Sure, they will say stuff like "Well, I'm from the South and we don't have those problems here because ________________________________..." This all learned bullshit... Of course they have the problems of racism... But the worst part about it is that they don't see in in themselves... That is why we call it "institutional" in that their entire culture brainwashes them into thinking that they don't have a problem with racism... There in no "critical thinking" here... It's way beyond that...

That is also the problem I find with a number of people here... They are very self righteous about how "class and free" (John Lennon) they ***think*** they are buit they are products of this same culture that has them all thinking alike and reacting alike... Yeah, too many Joe the Plumbers in America for America's good... Well meaning perhaps but so brainwashed that they are incapable of looking at themselves in terms of why they have these ***feelings***...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 12:54 PM

Bobert: What cut and paste? I just want to know the differences between black people and white people in any aspect.

Why are you already talking about partisan bullshit? I didn't know that the differences had anything to do with politics.

I will answer your questions a good as I can providing they are not complex questions. Just simple straight up questions and I will do the same. Let's keep politics out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 05:37 PM

Why do you want to know, Sawz??? Plus, if you have really been paying asttention to my postings ove the years you would allready have a purdy good idea...

As for politics... There's a reason that black folks tend to vote overwhelmingly for Democrats... It was the Democrats who in the face of massive resistence from the right put their balls on the line and pushed thru the Civil Rights Act... Lyndon Johnson is reported to have said that in doing so that the Democfratic Party would suffer for decades... He was right... Look at the South...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 05:58 PM

"I just want to know the differences between black people and white people in any aspect."

Like the difference between Tiger Woods and Elliot Spitzer?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 07:25 PM

Bobert: You respond with the partisan bullshit you wrongfully accuse me of. I answered your question politely and you respond with your usual hate filled rhetoric.

If you don't mind me using the standars you set for others, already you are running from a straight up question like a pig from a gun with retoric. What are you hiding? All I can see is someone filled with hate who won't come clean.

You are trying to goad me into a political statement so you and avoid giving honest, non political answers.

What happened to all the lousy typing? Tired of that game already?

Tiger Woods and Elliot Spitzer would be a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:34 PM

Okay, smartest man in the world... What party do you think I have spent most of my life supporting, working for and voting for???

If you guessed the Democratic Party, yer wrong... As per usual...

Guess again...

BTW, Google up "1619" for a major clue on the difference between white and black folks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:36 PM

Sawz:

By definition, their skin pigmentation.

Any other questions we can help with?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:00 AM

Amos says skin pigmentation is the only difference. Good. I agree with that.

Are there any other differences anybody can add to this?

Come on now, this is not about politics. I promise.

Some people are actually capable of having a non political discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:12 AM

Not political? Then, Sawz, you are on a different agenda, but an agenda for a' that.

There are other differences, of course. Cultural differences, for one. But that is not due to skin color- there are people all over this country who would barely recognize the differences in each other's culture and would not understand them if they did.

There is one BIG difference between Black and White people: perception of treatment. In a society dominated by one color, anyone not of that color cannot be certain of how they will be treated in a given situation.

(It just occurred to me: In a society dominated by one gender or of one sexual preference, anyone not of that gender or that sexual preference cannot be certain of how they will be treated in a given situation.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:07 PM

"Are there any other differences anybody can add to this?"

"White men can't jump"

...which is not really a joke. One of the evolutionary advantages of some blacks, along with extra resistance to UV light, is a slightly different muscle structure. Add to this the 'selection' process during slavery where deliberate breeding was done to produce stronger field hands,,,,

I found many examples like the following. I do NOT claim that any particular details are 100% accurate, only that there are various scientific tests which seem to verify observation that in some sports, there is a natural advantage.

"Compared to Whites, Blacks have narrower hips which gives them a more efficient stride. They have a shorter sitting height which provides a higher center of gravity and a better balance. They have wider shoulders, less body fat, and more muscle. Their muscles include more fast twitch muscles which produce power. Blacks have from 3 to 19% more of the sex hormone testosterone than Whites or East Asians. The testosterone translates into more explosive energy.

..... these physical advantages give Blacks the edge in sports like boxing, basketball, football, and sprinting. However, some of theserace differences pose a problem for Black swimmers. Heavier skeletons and smaller chest cavities limit their performance."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:40 PM

There is only one human race.

There is far far more variation within any of the traditionally recognized races than between them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 05:30 PM

Bill D, I have a problem with that listing. I remember quite clearly and not too long ago when the official dictum was that Black people couldn't swim. Charley Pride, the country singer, said that when he heard that one he had to go find out, and sure enough, he could swim...

What happens to that list when one is not *all* Black? My guess is that few American African-Americans are all any one thing. And yet, they tend to put white athletes in the shade.

I suspect it has a good deal more to do with 'hunger' than with inherent characteristics.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 05:35 PM

Tiger Woods is Half Thai He is the best athlete in his sport.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:16 PM

Ebbie... the list is, by definition a **generalization**. It explains 'some' things. There are obviously exceptions to the "White men can't jump" rule, too.

I KNOW that humans are 99.999% genetically similar. I KNOW that it is dangerous to make too much over the small differences, but evolution DOES create some differences in localized populations. We see it in birds, bears, butterflies and bees....and it happens in humans, whether it is PC to take note of those small differences or not.

"I suspect it has a good deal more to do with 'hunger' than with inherent characteristics."

I'm afraid it is easier to measure variation in muscle structure and enzyme levels than 'hunger' and 'motivation', and it would be helpful if we DID know exactly what these minor variations mean.

We KNOW that sickle-cell disease is relevant, because we need to help those afflicted.

Genetic differences allow Inuit people to endure cold better and survive on a diet with almost no vegetables....and it's no shame to have or NOT have that gene.....it just is.

Why am I climbing out on this limb when it is such a touchy topic? Because the point is that everyone should be given a fair chance to do and participate in whatever endeavors they choose to, and to excel as it works!
60 years ago, the NBA was about 100% white players...today, it is a large majority black, and people still are quite happy watching the best basketball players compete...as they should be.

I have spent my life arguing for fairness and equal opportunity, but I also argue for truth and accuracy and knowledge, no matter where it leads.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:23 PM

""Would you care to enlighten me as to how YOU learn, process and analyze the news about our country and world?""

It's beamed in to the built in antenna in his tinfoil hat Poppa, straight from Republican HQ.

Confirmation is by SickMail.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 06:25 PM

Sorry, that was BillD

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 10:06 PM

Boy, that's an OLD hat. No one has made TINfoil for many years. But I assume the reception is pretty good with aluminum, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 11:52 PM

Hmmmm. I've never quite known the utilitarian aspect of tinfoil hats. From what you say, Bill D, they are meant to enhance reception? I had thought they might block unwanted information.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 01:04 AM

This is not going to be a touchy subject as long as racisim and politics is checked at the door.

I just hope some people are not just waiting to attack in an attempt to turn it racial and or political. I still say it is possible to have a rational discussion without either. I believe it would be even more rational without either.

"There is one BIG difference between Black and White people: perception of treatment."- That is a pretty good one but it is not physical.

Better at sports because of certain physical attributes is good.

humans are 99.999% genetically similar-that is a good very point also.

I don't think being part Thai has any bearing.

Any other differences?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 02:03 PM

>>I don't think being part Thai has any bearing.<<

It is a good indication that his skill doesn't come from being black.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 03:16 PM

European white guys can't be much different genetically from American white guys ~ but plenty of them complete quite effectively with the Africans and African-Americans in the NBA, while there are very very few white Americans doing very well at all. David Lee is a legitimate young star, and then there's Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy Jr (solid players but hardly superstars). Steve Nash doesn't count ~ he's from Vancouver and grew up playing soccer...

When I was running high school track, it was pretty obvious that black kids dominated the sprints while us whities had the distance-running events pretty much to ourselves. But then the Ethiopians and Kenyans burst onto the international scene as the best long-distance runners of all. Go figure.

Culture and expectations must be part of the equation, but genetics is part of it too ~ not just the differences between "races" (or nations, or clans, or whatever teminology you prefer for groups of genetically-related individuals) but between individuals as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 04:49 PM

Then there are differences among ethnic groups within races.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:18 AM

Yes you are right Jack but it goes the other way too.

Any way my point is, what are the differences that would justify treating someone differently.

Would you want someone to treat you differently than they would treat anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:06 AM

No, the point is that the US has a nasty little history beginning in 1619... Sure, it's fine to argue, "Gee, can't we all get along" and, yeah, we can... The reality is that were aren't... The reality is that there are one heck of alot of rednecks in our country who have had fears and hatreds passed down from generation to generations about black folk... Oh sure, lott of these people say stuff like, "Well, I live in the South and I've lived with black people so we doon't have those problems down here"... That's is 100% mythology... That story line has been repeated so often in the South that kids can recite it before they reach the age of two... It's required... Then these same kids are making nooses and hanging them outside black kids locker by the time they are in junior high school???

Now for the self-proclaimed "classless and free" here who think that "can't we all just get along" is all they have to know and think, it isn't all we need to know and think...

If I run my car into my neighbors car then it is my resonisibilty ti fix it, right??? Well, white people held black people as slaves for 250 years and then Terrorized them with JHim Crow for another 100 years... And when we look around at the infastructure of America it was idsporprtionately build on the backs of black people... And they thanks these folk have gotten is to be stuffed into urban ghettoes (housing projects) with little opportunity to live a life where they "can just get along"... And then white folk blame these folks for their situation and fell all smug and superior and th
us thiings like the Tea Party and and other hate groups springing up when a black man becomes, ahhhhhh, president???

So yeah, there is a major difference between the races that isn't about DNA.... IT's about white people's superior attitudes and white people's lack of historical perspcetive anf white people greed... No, I'm not talking about all white people but I am talking about alot of them who don't see or recognize their own racists feelings until a black man become president... That's where "can't we all just get along" ends in their book...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:19 AM

Y'all want to talk about REAL practitioners of mesmerism?

That must be what's going on with Limbaugh, Hannity, Coalter, Savage & all the reat of the right-wing gobshites- otherwise how could they get people with even a pretension to intelligence to believe the obviously untrue and bizarre bulshit they spew?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 11:50 AM

Bobert:

It is impossible for you to have a rational normal conversation with people because of your uncontrollable ego. You want to inject racism and or politics into to everything and stir up a fight. Then you can parade your smug elitist qualifications as proof that someone is full of hate and anger. You project your own hats and anger on others.

Example: Who is "out there screaming for rednecks to kill Obama" Bobert?

Let me try again, peacefully and politely.

Bobert: Would you want someone to treat you differently than they would treat anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:00 PM

Who is "out there screaming for rednecks to kill Obama"

Glen Beck, Sarah Palin, Limbaugh. Though their screaming is coded and very passive aggressive.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:40 PM

This ain't got one thing about ego, Salwz... It's about a life's worth of living and watching what is going on... That is ego-less... The ego folks don't take time, for instance, to work at a inpatient drug treatement half-way house for subsistent wages for 4 years... 'Er teachin' GED in the Richmond City Jail...'Er working for lousy pay as a social worker for another 15 years or so... No, you got the ego part all wrong, Slawz... I'm just a guy who has had the aboslute priveldge of having alot of differing life's experiences... That ain't ego... That is a blessing... I woldn't trade any of them...

BTW, me thinks that you spend way too much time obsessing on me... You have followed me from one website to another and kinda see yerself as "Palidan" 'er one of those white hat cowboys that tracks down the bad guy... Problem is that I ain't the bad guy... I don't obsess about people and spend countless fours of my life very week trying to disect every word ao someone here in cyberworld and attack, attack, attack... I'm not at all sure whay you do this... That is something better left for you to discuss with a therapist or psychiatrist, I donno... Just a suggestion... Your obsession is unhealthy...

Yeah, JtS... Ya' know what I am getting purdy sick and tired of hearing is folks on the Democratic siad saying stuuf like, "We gotta tone it down on both sides of the isle"... The violent tone ain't coming from their side of the isle tho they are, I guess, trying to show grace here but, geeeze louise... The noise is coming purdy much 100% from the Repubs and their phony Tea Party minions... That is the side that nees to tone it down... If they want to debate, fine... Let's debate... But don't go strappin' on heat for no debate... That ain't a debate... That is terrorism... So, Jack, I'd love to see the Dems grow a spine and quit fessin' up to stuff that they ain't doin'... And I'd love for the media to quit propagating' the same Big Lie...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 12:58 AM

I have not heard anybody screaming for re****ks to kill Obama.
What are the codewords?

Let me try again, peacefully and politely.

Bobert: Would you want someone to treat you differently than they would treat anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 01:19 AM

Is this what you call screaming code?:

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"

"I want you to argue with them and get in their face"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 08:43 AM

See comments on "Katrinagate" thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 12:20 PM

Calling them traitors, terrorists and communists. Saying that they are going to destroy the country. Portraying them as evil. Saying "reload" and putting gun sights on their districts.

If you believe any of that stuff it would be unpatriotic not to kill them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 03:01 AM

Shit?..Hypnotic???....I thought the amount of lies were getting boring...I was nodding off......

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 01:10 PM

Hypnosis can be applied to those who have a preconditioned agreement with how they will behave when hypnotized.

In this way, the news media in the US has hypnotized many Americans. They choose to believe outright lies. This is as it was in Germany in the Thirties. But Obama is not Hitler.
His values are different.

In Obama's case, people want to believe that what he says is reasonable and true. There is an unwillingness to analyze his statements without partisan rancor.

He has a soothing intonation that makes certain people feel good. It's reminiscent of
a preaching style found in the pulpit.

BTW, Reverend Wright was right in his assessment about the US even if he was a preacher.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 01:31 AM

So what was the Democrat's answer to the Republicans? Crumbs tossed to the Republicans.

How can it cost $940 billion to save money down the road? Money we don't have. Sounds like a Nigerian scam email.

The savings down the road is based on certain conditions that are not certain and that may be over optimistic. If you say the estimate is accurate are you willing to guarantee it?

If there is any fraud to be eliminated, why wasn't it eliminated on day one of the Obama administration? If there was waste and fraud, not eliminating it already was a failure.

What is in the bill to keep health care costs down and lower the price of insurance like the original purpose of health care reform?

It will end up costing the same or more for health insurance so people making $200K will be taxed to keep the price down for people that can't afford it.

They say once the American people find out what is in the bill they will like it. Why didn't we know what is in the bill? Where has the promise of transparency and no backroom deals gone?

What happened to the no lobbyist influence promise? 6 lobbyists for each congressperson is what happened.

There is good stuff in the bill and bad stuff. All the controversy is over the good stuff and bad stuff, not anti health care reform. This is blamed on "the Republicans" while 34 of "the Democrats" voted no.

The Repubs were in the minority all along. The great struggle to get it passed was a struggle between the Democrats but a big smoke screen is used to shelter the Democrat battle by diverting the blame to "the Republicans"

Then when it is all over the Dems are whopping each other on the back and crowing it was a hell of a battle but we got it done despite "the Republicans" that gave us such a hard time.

What they have done is set up the conditions for the biggest nastiest campaign ever seen and they will blame that on "the Republicans" too.

And those greedy insurance companies are going to get their ass kicked too, right?

How is the Health Care sector of the stock market doing?

All of their gigantic campaign donations have paid off for them and your congress people have sold you out because they need the donations to get re elected. It is not that hard to figure out when you filter out the partisanship.

About the only thing we can do is dump out all the incumbents to let them know they are not going to buy their popularity with tax money that hasn't even been collected yet and may never be collected so it has to be borrowed. They can't buy success. Their credit has maxed out.

If you want to believe this is a Democrat/Republican issue, keep dreaming. It is a what's in the bill issue.

The something is better than nothing stance is a false dichotomy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 03:00 AM

"Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques" was dealt with in another thread, that with no real need to link to it - "Proved" that some how the concept of this thread was relevant to that one...

QUOTE
Subject: RE: BS: How your Pensions will be Stolen
From: Foolestroupe Date: 05 Apr 10 - 11:51 PM

QUOTE
Suggested reading (link to his website)
UNQUOTE

QUOTE
XXXX uses pacing phrases to implant his leads. Three of his favorite hypnotic paces are "that's why I stand here tonight", "now is the time", and "this moment." These are things the hypnotist says that are verifiably true, and used to lower our critical factor defenses to allow implantation of subconscious messages.
UNQUOTE

QUOTE
After pacing the audience, thus lowering cognitive critical factor defenses, XXXX then implanted the lead (hypnotic command), "and that is why I will be your next President."
UNQUOTE

Sounds EXACTLY like EVERY politician I've ever heard.... whether I've liked them or not....

QUOTE
The critical factor
UNQUOTE

Your 'problem' mate is that you can't tolerate others who ALSO have a 'highly active critical factor' that works (and may even be higher than yours!) ... after all, you say of Mudcat "a forum where the members like to ridicule opposing viewpoints. That's fine".., so you admit to doing it too, but really get upset when given that acceptable (by your own terms of discourse) treatment.

UNQUOTE
Sigh - so looks like that Sawzaw and ichMael, if not the same person, apparently have their salary paid by the same Corporation with a definite agenda... I submit that by the standards of "MC-BS Argument" this is proved!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 08:11 AM

Okay, I'll confess...

The first time I heard Obama was in a cabin back in the Wes Ginny mountains and I was listenin' to his speech at the '04 Democratic convention on the radio while playin' gin rummy with the P-Vine at the kitchen table...

Well, my fellow Mudders, tyhis is where the story get's real strange... I'd always heard that when peoples was hypnotized they wanted to go out and bark like a dog and here I was lookin' down at a fresh delt hand and I had gin right there in my hand... Now a man waits all his life to be delt a lay-down and I was just puttin' the cards in order and it was beginnin' to sink in that I had been delt a lay-down when that Obama stuff got in my head and I couldn't sit at that table another minute with that uncontrolable urge to get up from that lay-down gin hand, rush out the cabin door and bark like a dog!!!

Sho nuff happened excatly that way... It must have been pone hypnotic speech 'cause it took me a good couple hours of barkin' before I come back to my senses...

By then (sniff) the P-Vine had put the cards away, put her ear plugs in and gone to bed...

Even to this day I can't take but so much of Obama... I gotta get up and get fresh air... Barkin' ain't good fir people... Gives ya' a sore throat, too...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 08:17 AM

Well, that's proved that SOMEBODY is barking mad!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 10:59 AM

Now that sounds like the old Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 08:28 PM

Old, my butt... My daddy is old...

(Yer daddy been dead for a few years, Boberdz...)

Details...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 11:57 PM

Bobert. I will tell you about a spiritual experinece even though it has nothing to do with this thread.

When the Wifey and I with all the grandkids are headed into WV we put John Denver in the CD and play Country Roads and sing along when we go over the state line.

When we are climbing up Chestnut Hill road and sing Blue ridge Mountains I point to the left at Blue Ridge and when we sing Shenandoah River I point down to the right at the river.

That gets me misty eyed every time. Yeah I know the song has "misty taste of moonshine" in it but we don't break out a jug or anything.

Then up at the top after you go over the Appy Trail, there is a big hump in the road right by an ancient cabin. I stomp on the gas and the car almost goes airborne. We all holler Wheeeeeeee.

Now that is spiritual.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:07 AM

"Maybe my next focus should be on self-hypnosis, or more properly, self delusion. Now if I could only find an example who claims to be a number # 1 salesperson, and a former world-class teacher, space cadet and so on."

I found one - ichMael....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:11 AM

"Bobert. I will tell you about a spiritual experinece even though it has nothing to do with this thread."

Oh, feel welcome, pray DO join in with the rest of the distracting trolls... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 01:11 AM

Ok I will. Thanks for the invite.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 07:38 AM

Thank you for confessing to being one of the others, mate... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 08:10 AM

I think know that road and I know that bump, Sawz... Well, okay, there are plenty of Chestnut Hill Roads but the one I'm talkin' about runs from Rt. 340 to Rt. 9 and, yeah, if yer travelin' north the Shenadoah River is down on the left side of that twisty ridge...

There some good mergal (mushroom) hunting spots half a mile up the Blue Ridge from that road... Ginsing also grows up there... Ain't no corn liquer stills in that holler no more but lotta pot growers...

Almost heaven...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 10:24 AM

Sawzaw said, in part:

They say once the American people find out what is in the bill they will like it. Why didn't we know what is in the bill?

For one thing, because "the bill" as finally passed didn't exist until the very end. In order to get the votes necessary to pass, changes of this kind and that kind and the other kind had to be made.

Also, because of the length and complication of the bill in its various versions on the way to a vote, very few people could understand the various planks, all written in legislative legalese. And that includes the legislators and the press, let alone the American people generally.   

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 11:22 AM

I been musing about this 'hypnotic' stuff for days now, just wondrin' how old Itchy could KNOW it worked.

Seems to me the claim is a lot like those who suggest that watchin' ....shhhh... porn will mess you up and hook you and subvert your brain in terrible ways.

How do they KNOW? I assume both those who are worried about Obama listeners and those who worry about porn watchers have also listened and watched themselves..... how DO they protect themselves against the evil impulses.

I know, I know... "we pure and sane ones are immune to the pernicious influences. Just listen to OUR favored sources...(like Faux News).. and you too can see the righteous path!"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 11:25 AM

Yep! He puts you to sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 11:53 AM

""the bill" as finally passed didn't exist until the very end."

So much for the Obama campaign Promise: "Public Will Have five Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk"

Obama September 22, 2008:

    I'll make our government open and transparent so that anyone can ensure that our business is the people's business. Justice Louis Brandeis once said Sunlight is the greatest disinfectant, and as president I am going to make it impossible for congressmen or lobbyists to slip pork barrel projects or corporate welfare into laws when no one's looking because when I'm president meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public... no more secrecy, that's a commitment I make to you as president. No more secrecy!

    And, when there's a bill that ends up on my desk as president, you the public will have five days to look on-line and find out what's in it before I sign it so that you know what your government's doing. When there are meetings between lobbyists and a government agency we'll put as many as pos... as many of those meetings as possible on-line for every American to watch. When there's a tax bill being debated in Congress you will now the names of the corporations that would benefit and how much money they would get. And we will put every corporate tax break and every pork barrel project on-line for every American to see, you will know who asked for them and you can decide whether your representative is actually representing you!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:29 PM

The final bill was thru reconciation, Sawz... All the components of the Senate and House bills had been debated for the last year... The biggest thing in them was strippin' the Medicare deals that were made to bring along a couple of Blue Dog Democrats in the Senate... I doubt very much if the Repubs had any serious problems with doing that...

I'll be the first to admit, however, that without the fillibuster rule the Repubs would have been forced to participate more in thr shaping of the final bill and it would have gotten biparisan support but the Repubs choose early on to not participate and put all their egges into the fiilibuster basket... Too bad for them and too bad for the country as well...

I mean, if the Repubs want more transparency then they are going to have to participate but I think their strategy is to not participate and tyry to make the Dems look like bullies... Not a bad strtaegy for November but a terrible one for the long term interests of the country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:49 PM

"Also, because of the length and complication of the bill in its various versions on the way to a vote, very few people could understand the various planks, all written in legislative legalese. And that includes the legislators ..."



Hmmm....


And they passed it WHY???

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 01:40 PM

And they passed it WHY???

If your question is why this bill was passed, being complicated and legalese and hard to understand, the short answer is "because that tends to be the case for any important bill".

On any large piece of legislation, the bill in question has seldom or never been read in detail by any of the legislators (or at best, "very few"). Certain sections will have been worked through by congressional staff (with summarized reports to their principals), and by Representatives and Senators who have a specific interest in that aspect, like the budget-hawks, or the pro-choice or pro-life enthusiasts.

The leadership will have been fairly thoroughly briefed and have read key sections, but reading the bill in its entirety and in detail? Naaahh. That is about it. And of course the leadership will have strategic reasons and partisan political reasons for pushing (or in this case, for the Republicans opposing) passage, which reasons, on both sides, color their perceptions of the bill's (un?)desirability.

Is it pretty? No. But that's the way you make sausage.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 01:57 PM

...and not only that, the same question and the same answer are relevant to all the tax cut and deregulation bills passed under Reagan and the Bushes. They passed it because they could, and various Republicans made sure certain features were included! And they used reconciliation!! They KNEW the Democrats would be opposed to the basic thrust of it.
I wonder why the concept that the winning party gets to pass legislation their way only seems to apply to Republican wins?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 02:24 PM

It's always a double standard, Bill. That's how the human ego works. What's okay for one's "friends" to do is NEVER okay for one's "enemies" to do... ;-)

Why? Well, because one's friends are "good" people, and therefore the things they do must be good! And one's enemies are "evil" people, therefore what they do must be evil, and they must be stopped!

Even if it's the very same thing... ;-)

You can see this in international politics too, not just in domestic politics. It IS one of the most common diseases of the human condition.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 05:20 PM

That's as may be, LH but the Republicans are becoming increasingly childish in its application.

They bring to mind a 7th-Grade lunchroom.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 05:43 PM

""It's always a double standard, Bill. That's how the human ego works. What's okay for one's "friends" to do is NEVER okay for one's "enemies" to do... ;-)""


That one is the same the world over.

"I am an innovator, you are an eccentric, he is a bloody lunatic".

Never fails. And we all do it!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 08:06 PM

Don T...do you perhaps remember Sidney J. Harris? Many years ago he wrote columns using that theme. ("I have the courage of my convictions, you are a bit stubborn, he is a close-minded zealot.")

However... we do not ALL do it to the extent it is being done. We are all, of course, inclined to see the world from out own perspective, but (as Little Hawk knows all too well) I object to easy generalizations which function as excuses for not dealing with the exceptions.
Every situation 'should' be evaluated on its own merits, and every person 'should' strive to see more than just what will support his own basic viewpoints.
I simply do not understand the current (general) Republican attitude of refusing to admit that they EVER did what they are now accusing Democrats of doing. It seems to be a matter of just 'wanting power back', no matter what they have to say or do to achieve this. In the last administration, some Democrats would vote for Republican measures if they seemed to be basically for the country's good....but right now, it looks like if Obama noted that "the sun rises in the East", the Republicans would either deny it or accuse him of not giving fair attention to sunsets!

If I had 2 hours to devote to searching and typing, I could show you dozens of flip-flopping on issues, changing rules, inventing 'facts', distorting news and generally portraying anything Obama, Pelosi, or Harry Reid say as socialist propaganda. I'm tired of it....it shows, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 08:23 PM

Obama approves killing of American

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki...

Yes, master. I understand. Change = you will kill any American you wish. Hope = I hope it ain't me. Yes, master. Yes, master.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 08:24 PM

200

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 08:29 PM

Bill, don't get the wrong idea.

I agree with every word you said. Nonetheless I repeat, we all do it, in some shape or form.

It's just that the Repubs are abusing the privilege, but, again in all honesty, I can't get all that worked up about it because it isn't anything new.

It's getting harder by the day to find anything more to say than "Yep, so what else is new"?

As long as the "I've got mine, so screw the rest" attitude predominates in the USA, the Repubs will have the support of the lunatic, Bud soaked, Nascar Fanatic, black and Jew hating, Redneck Gun Nuts.

As long as they have that support, a caring, sharing, civilised USA is a distant dream.

The only thing I can see which might change that, is the Democrats getting into the game and playing a bit of hardball themselves.

Bear in mind that I see this at 3000 miles distance, so my perspective almost inevitably will be different than yours.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 09:20 PM

It's OK - as long as we have THEM, it justifies US...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 11:40 PM

Bobert: I really don't know what you are saying has to do with the fact that:

A: Obama said when the American people find out what is in the bill, they will like it.

This says that they DON'T know what is in it.

B: Mr Obama made to campaign promise that there would be transparency and the American people would know what is in bills before they pass.

Did Obama tell a lie? Is he just another politician that tells lies to get elected?

Seems like you read about 5 words and launch a 75 word rebuttal that is totally irrelevant and you never click any links to see what is there.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 11:45 PM

Does it have to be a lie, O unimaginative Sawz? Maybe he intended to do that quite sincerely then got into office and saw he had been a bit naive, and had to adjust his expectations. You always come up with the most uncharitable explanation for anything Obama does.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 12:25 AM

"Did Obama tell a lie? Is he just another politician that tells lies to get elected?"

Which of course has nothing to do with the original topic - alleged fictional Hypnotic Speech Techniques. It's just a distraction which reveals your REAL agenda - defaming someone, whether it is just because of his race, or merely because you are paid to do so by your puppet masters, or you just personally dislike him (and that would be nothing to do with his race, you see) throwing muck. Us Educated Nerds use the Term "Ad Hominen" Latin shorthand for 'attacking the person, not the argument'.

"Maybe he intended to do that quite sincerely then got into office and saw he had been a bit naive, and had to adjust his expectations."

There are many in this forum also unable to adjust their expectations, and cope with reality.

"Did Obama tell a lie?"

This seems to be an obsession of some in this forum. Just count the members of The Church of Convenient Bible Interpretation - Today's Sermon: Just do what we say and nobody gets hurt. Insanity: asking the same question over and over again and expecting different answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 01:01 AM

Foole:

Your agenda is defaming me because I do not agree with you'

I remember people saying he was inexperienced and naive. They said his promises were impractical.

I remember other people saying that is not true. Saying Obama was different, not like other politicians, Better some how. Smarter. More trustworthy. He would keep his promises. He would get it all fixed.

Now who was right?

I think Obama is a nice guy that means well. I don't think he is a crook or mean or selfish or anything negative. I had a wait and see attitude with no animosity. However I think he is an idealist that cannot do what he thinks he can do and what he wants to do. He has not learned what is workable and what is not. It is trial and error.

Now they people that wanted him to be president so bad have to defend him from any criticism and attack anybody that questions his performance. They will defned him even if the country goes bankrupt in the process.

Like I have said so many times, nobody is all good or all bad. You have to judge each person and each action individually as to whether it is good or bad.

For instance, I think the new treaty and ban on retaliating with nukes on countries that are in compliance and have no nukes is a good thing.

It kicks the legs out from any arguments about "if the US has nukes, we must have nukes for self protection". It also gives fair warning to North Korea and Iran that we WILL nuke them because they are not in compliance.

I see the usual right wing people are complaining about it just to have something to complain about.

If I were Obama, I would leak the technology for ABMs on the net so all the world could defend themselves from nukes even if they don't have them themselves.

That would really level the field.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 07:46 AM

Yeah, mouse... It's a sign of sanity to not repeat behavior that isn't working... Too bad that Bush didn't possess a little of it...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 08:44 AM

""Now they people that wanted him to be president so bad have to defend him from any criticism and attack anybody that questions his performance. They will defned him even if the country goes bankrupt in the process.""

You mean like the people who defended, and still defend, the idiot who actually wrecked the US economy, and has put in place all the necessary conditions for impending bankruptcy?

A little further up the thread you posted an indignant denial of being constantly negative about the Democrats and Obama, and constantly positive about the Repubs. Busted Pal!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 09:13 AM

"If I were Obama, I would leak the technology for ABMs on the net so all the world could defend themselves from nukes even if they don't have them themselves."

And when certain US citizens leaked nuclear secrets to other nations 'to level the playing field', they were condemned as traitors, some were even murdered by the (US) state.

You are now inciting traitorous acts? What a Patriot! :-O

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 02:09 PM

Sawz sez:

For instance, I think the new treaty and ban on retaliating with nukes on countries that are in compliance and have no nukes is a good thing.

It kicks the legs out from any arguments about "if the US has nukes, we must have nukes for self protection". It also gives fair warning to North Korea and Iran that we WILL nuke them because they are not in compliance.

Reasonable statement, until you get to the last sentence!

That sentence, as written is false. What that policy statement says is purely the negative, that non-nuclear states are safe from US nuclear devices, and that nuclear states who declare their status and agree to international norms (and stick with them) are safe from US nuclear devices.

It does not say that "we WILL nuke them because they are not in compliance." It is more guarded than that, but leaves the nuclear option on the table. Is that a threat? You betchum! But much more tentative than the absolute way Sawz stated it. More maneuvering room for diplomacy, which is a damn good thing.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Apr 10 - 08:28 PM

Well, I kinda agree with Sawz on this one... The problem here is that the playing field isn't level and we have the US, the only country to ever launch a nuclear attack on another, being this "world super power" as a consequence... So when Bush gets up and does his "Axis of Evil" thing then any leader of the countries names scurry around trying to find a bat to protect themselves... That is human nature...

Being this bigass super power hasn't really worked for the US... By being the badass of the badasses it has allowed itself to become the world's cop... And what we're seeing is that it ain't cheap being the world's cop... It is bakruptin' our country a little bit at a time... Think ancient Rome here, if you like...

So yeah, if the playing filed were level then folks would have to sit down and discuss their differences... Right now, whoever has a nuke wins that discussion reagrdless of the merits of the other side... That certainly isn't working too well for an increasingly "tribalized" (as we're all part of the same bigass tribe) world...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 03:04 PM

Of course it doesn't help when we start unnecessary and unwinnable "wars" against abstract nouns -- wars that kill thousands of people and accomplish squat.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 08:45 PM

Right, mouse... And just for the record, when was the last war that the US got into that it won??? Hell, it's been pushing 70 years, by golly... That oughta tell folks that wars just ain't what they used tgo be so quit startin' them... Tell the military/industrial complex to go scrww themselves... We're done... We can't afford you guys... Not financiallly... Not in terms of human life... And not interms of moving the planet into this new century... Hopefully, Bush will one day be thought of as the last war president...

b~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 09:53 PM

"And just for the record, when was the last war that the US got into that it won???"

Easy - The War Profiteers have won EVERY war! And they're making a killing (sorry!) from the current ones...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Apr 10 - 10:05 PM

Yeah, F-troupe... The "war pigs" (Black Sabboth) win every time... Good point...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 11:11 AM

"Well, I kinda agree with Sawz on this one"

Bingo.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:36 PM

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 09:57 AM

Bobert: Would you want someone to treat you differently than they would treat anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 12:44 AM

Guess I should give up on gettin' an answer from Perfesser Emeritus Bobert of Re***ck U.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 12:49 AM

"Would you want someone to treat you differently than they would treat anyone else? "

Well if THEY treat anyone else like arseholes, I would want to be treated differently, I suppose....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 08:29 AM

I asked you first, Sawz... Give me yer budget and then we can get around to yer questions of me... That only seems fair... Right???

But start another thread for yer answer 'cause this thread ain't about me and it's rude to other folks here for you to continue these little obsessive tangents in these threads...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 02:11 AM

I asked you for something to back up your 1 in 5 claim which you could not do and now you are claiming I have to produce a budget to avoid proving anything.

Then I ask you a different question and you use the same excuse.

Rather infantile as well as rude and irresponsible.

Bobert wants to give is these "facts" but gets desperate when called upon to provide anything to back them up.

New answer avoidance tactic: You must start another thread.

Why didn't you answer it in the thread where you made the claim?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 03:04 AM

Sawzaw, question: Why are you harrassing Bobert? Keep it up and I, for one, will make an official complaint to management.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 08:55 PM

Thank you, Eb...

Sawz has some kinda infactuation/obsession thing going... He had it as Old Guy and then he changed to Dickey and he had it again and now he's bogged down with it yet again... I feel sorry for him...

BTW, I have spoken to management about him and I have also receifved amny PM's from Catters about him and I thank them all for their advice and concerns...

The way I look at it is that it really isn't my problem...

Maybe if we just ignore him he'll calm down yet again and maybe not have to reinvent himself as __________ as his 4th "handle" (maybe more) and try again??? I donno???

But thanks fir yer concern, Eb... I'm trying to ignore him the best I can...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 09:58 PM

On the subject of the thread. . . .

It's characteristic of those who tend to wholeheartedly (and no-brainedly) embrace conspiracy theories that they believe that everyone in the world has been duped. Except them!

If Barack Obama diabolically managed to hypnotize the entire country, I'd be curious to know by what means ichMael managed to avoid being "entranced" and is in the enviable position of being the sole possessor of the Truth and is thus able to warn we poor, thick-headed and gullible "dupees."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 10:23 PM

It's the tin foil hat, silly. He wears his shiny side out.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 10:32 PM

Hey, I only quoted from an article someone else wrote. Someone else pointed out all that stuff, rather long-windedly, and I tried to boil it down.

But I don't listen to Obama, so I doubt he's hypnotized me. I heard the cadences a couple of times early on in his campaign and knew he was to be avoided (all snake-oil hucksters sound the same). I went 8 years without listening to Bush (just read the transcripts when they were important enough), and I'll do the same with Obama.

I expect right now Soetoro/Obama's talking about how he's going to save us from Goldman Sachs (the people who bankroll him), so who needs that crapola? But he'll cadence people into a half-sleep, do some fancy finger waves, and when you wake up--you'll believe the banking crisis is over.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 11:29 PM

"If Barack Obama diabolically managed to hypnotize the entire country, I'd be curious to know by what means ichMael managed to avoid being "entranced" and is in the enviable position of being the sole possessor of the Truth and is thus able to warn we poor, thick-headed and gullible "dupees.""

Well there's those OUTSIDE the country, Don... :-) Oh we got zapped too eh? even if we never heard his speeches? :-)

And anyway - the answer is simple - HE's got a web page... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 11:31 PM

Oh Don I got it! He's not the only one safe!

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com

Appropriate, somehow? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 01:09 AM

Trust In Government Hits Near-Historic Low

NPR 4/18/10

Americans' trust in government and its institutions has plummeted to a near-historic low, according to a sobering new survey by the Pew Research Center.

Only 22 percent of Americans surveyed by Pew say they can trust government in Washington "almost always or most of the time" -- among the lowest measures in the half-century since pollsters have been asking the question.

And an increasing number -- almost 1 of every 3 people -- say they believe government is a major threat to their personal freedoms and want federal power reined in.

Pew asked people to say whether they were content, frustrated or angry with the federal government -- and 3 of every 4 people said they were either frustrated or angry.

The public's unalloyed hostility flows from what Pew Center Director Andrew Kohut characterizes as a perfect storm of conditions: a bad economy, backlash against Washington partisanship and "epic discontent" with elected officials that found fuel in this year's bitter health care debate.

"Health care reform contributed in the second half of last year to this growing concern about the power of government," Kohut tells NPR.

"The public," he says, "wants a less activist government."......

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 08:02 AM

Well, I'd say that the Repubs are doing a dandy job in gumming up the government and pissin' people off... Gret for politics... Lousy for the country...

If the poll were worded in a manner of what government service people would most want abolished the poll numbers would be quite different...

"Hi, Mr. Smith... I'm with the Pine Grove Research Group and we'd like to know if you'd like for the governemnt to cut your Social Security???"

That's how it works...

My Stats prof in college spent an entire hour on how polls can be manipulated... Musta been a very interesting hour, I might add, 'cause it has stuck with me along time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 10:42 AM

""And an increasing number -- almost 1 of every 3 people -- say they believe government is a major threat to their personal freedoms and want federal power reined in.""

They should have been worried eight years ago when the Pres was giving more powers to Homeland Security, and planning two wars, and removing their freedoms in bunches.

Too late now!!    HE'S GONE!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 04:36 PM

I do happen to know something about hypnosis.

Barack Obama is quite a good public speaker, no doubt of that. But the idea that he's some kind of Svengali or latter-day Cagliostro and can hypnotize the entire country through their television sets is the product of combined ignorance and paranoia.

I think icky-Michael's main problem with Barack Obama is that, to him, Obama not only belongs to the wrong party, he's also the wrong color. . . .

Simple as that.

Along with the fact that icky-Michael is addicted to conspiracy theories.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:55 PM

Well, Don... One thing that all the *fringers* have in common is they never met a conspiriacy theory that didn't like...

Timothy McVeigh ate 'um up...

He was so sure that the government was going to do this-or-that to him that he said "the only way they are going to get it is body count"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 09:03 AM

Richard Hofstadter's essay "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" would be worth reading- show us how far we've come since 1964


HERE