Rare Sandy Denny Track

Subject: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:24 PM

Rare Sandy live track - "Rigs of Time"
Thursday, 6 January, 2011 23:13
From: "jaynefield"

Friends,

I've just stumbled upon a rare Sandy live track called "The Rigs of Time." I uploaded it just now to this group's Yahoo site, so go here and have a listen:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SandyDennyList/files/Jayne%27s%20files/

Technical note: I didn't have any luck playing the mp3 in my browser, but I was able to download it and play up on my computer.

This is an interesting track for several reasons: it's a song available nowhere else in any official release; it's completely acapella; she's singing with others (including, I think, Richard Thompson); and there are some funny moments at the outset when two men (RT and someone else, I think) discuss the song, then Sandy flubs the intro. But after this introductory minute, there are 2 and a half minutes of sublime trad. music.

Questions:
1. Does anyone know any more about this track? I know nothing about the date or location
2. Might it be from the Eltham Well Hall show encore in 1972 as noted here on Reinhard Zierke's excellent site?
http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/shirley.collins/songs/rigsofthetime.html
3. Is the photo towards the end of the book found in the new Sandy box perhaps a photo of this same performance?

Would love to hear what you know or think of this track.

Cheers!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 07:22 PM

I can't access that mp3 without joining up, but my guess is that it's this song.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 08:32 PM

Posting a link that needs a 'Log In' action is a bit of a waste of time

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 02:27 AM

Agreed - sorry - I'll try and put it elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 02:46 AM

Now at

http://www.mediafire.com/?fbu8w00scfigxh2

for limited free downloads.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: nickp
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 04:36 AM

That is indeed Richard Thompson talking during the intro. Also it seems to me to play somewhat fast. If it's Eltham (May 8 '72) the other artists were Pat Donaldson and Tim (Timi?) Donald. Linda Peters (before she became Thompson)appeared on a couple of tracks but not this one.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: nickp
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 04:39 AM

Ah, I've also seen this listed as 8th August - US/UK date format reversal. My reference books are at home so I can't check.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 02:32 PM

Apparently the track comes from an upload online "from a rather mysterious 7-volume set called "Friends of Fairport" other in cyberspace last year." Apparently all of the tracks are one-offs. Does anyone have any info. on this set?

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 02:37 PM

Someone reports that this track is on a CD of Eatham Hall complete with Richard's introduction and Sandy's stumble ...

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 03:01 PM

More info. here:

http://time-has-told-me.blogspot.com/2009/05/sandy-denny.html

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,Woodsir
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:25 AM

Eatham Hall? You mean Eltham Well Hall Open Theatre!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:46 AM

Found this on google:

Sandy Denny - Live At Eltham Well Hall Open Theatre

FORMAT: CD

TRACKS:
1 For Nobody To Hear - Sandy Denny
2 Bushes And Briars
3 Love's Made A Fool Of You
4 The Music Weaver
5 Crazy Lady Blues
6 Reynardine
7 Sweet Rosemary
8 Matty Groves
9 It'll Take A Long Time
10 The Lady
11 John The Gun
12 Down In The Flood
13 When Will I Be Loved?
14 Rigs Of The Time

MUSICIANS:
Sandy Denny - Richard Thompson - Pat Donaldson - Tim Donald - Linda Peters (Tracks 5 & 13)

RECORDED Elthan Well Hall Open Theatre, 8-5-72

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:56 AM

Oh and by the way the date format is indeed U.S. and it was 5th August see Original Promotional Poster curtesy of my mate Lord Kenningham of Eltham who a few years later carried on the folk tradition at this very site, Well Hall Pleasuance, upstairs at the Tudor Barn!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 08:05 AM

Now where can we obtain that recording from Well Hall? Surely it needs re-issuing?

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 08:28 AM

It is on the net as a download somewhere - I'll post a link later

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 09:03 AM

Other places to find Sandy shows on the Internet:

1. Here's an alternative place to find the same show:

http://time-has-told-me.blogspot.com/2009/05/sandy-denny.html

But here's another site all Sandy fans need to know about:

2. http://www.prartwork.com/forum/

Register (free), enter, click on "music" and then you'll find a list of artists, including Fairport Convention / Sandy Denny.

When you get there, you'll find a wealth of SD and Fairport shows there, all in lossless flac format -- even a Sandy DVD!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 09:06 AM

Yes, this is the last song (No.14) of the Eltham Well Hall concert in 1972. The concert is still seeded as a "lossless" torrent at "dimeadozen.org" and is seeded nearly every day.

There's another a capella number on it called "Reynard The Fox" which is kind of similar to "Rigs Of Time"

Since the sound quality doesn't necessarily require a lossless copy, the MP3 files of the concert are also available in a zip archive at:

http://tinyurl.com/2g22w36

If anyone is interested in a lossless copy, you log in as a member to "dimeadozen.org" (free membership) and click the following link:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=113271

It's a completely legal torrent.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:19 AM

Ooops I listed track 6 as "Reynardine" it is as CJB says called "Reynard The Fox" Sorry folks. The good Lord Kenningham of Eltham tells me that he did in fact attend the concert. These were weekly events organised and presented by the legendary Joe Stead.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 18 - 08:46 PM

I've never had much luck with Dimeadozen (probably just stupidity on my part) but for anyone wanting a simple download of this show, go to http://tela.sugarmegs.org/alpha/s.html and look around - also http://tela.sugarmegs.org/alpha/f.html for other Fairport and Fotheringay rarities.

Regards - Tony

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 03:29 AM

I have this on reel from the guy that recorded it! I must drag out my 1968 B & O 2000 tape recorder!!!!!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 04:17 AM

"the guy that recorded it"... any name/other info?? Also would love to know what generation/s of the recording are around, and which might be the best copy...

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 04:21 AM

BTW that was me as "Guest" above - did not notice I was not logged in :(

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 07:00 AM

Aha wifi is back by hotel pool! There are a number of Sandy Denny recordings circulating from this former taper - Mile End Sundown, Lincoln Festival, Fairfield Hall Croydon and who knows what else!!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 02:52 PM

The Lincoln tape is stated here

http://tela.sugarmegs.org/_asxtela/asxcards/SandyDennyAndTheHappyBlunderers1971-07-24LincolnFolkFestival.html

as being recorded by Nick Ralph who worked for the U.S. magazine Dark Star. Does this tally with your info? In that case we owe him a huge debt of gratitude!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 03:01 PM

Perhaps this is he...

https://www.discogs.com/artist/272853-Nick-Ralph?sort=year%2Casc&limit=100&page=1

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Nick
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 03:20 PM

Never heard of Sugarmegs before. Some hours are going to get wasted I can see!!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 06:16 PM

Ah yes. Best source of easily accessible rare/interesting stuff that I have found - unless others can suggest elsewhere... of course it is all lossy files (mp3 etc.), not flac, however for ancient material that is not normally an issue. (Perhaps I should investigate dime torrents further, though). Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 06:18 PM

I should also point out that the "view set list" with each item often contains additional useful background info as provided by the submitter, not just the set list.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 07:44 PM

I had a look on dimeadozen and found this show listed; among the comments are the following, which I re-post as of potential interest to mudcatters and others. Thanks **so much** to the original taper for taking the trouble to make this recording and passing it down to posterity!! Regards - Tony

------------
These are reported as the original taper's notes:

"This was a spur of the moment recording. I was on vacation in Manchester
visiting relatives who I had not seen since we emigrated to the USA in 1960. I
saw an advertisment for a series of folk orientated concerts taking place
throughout the summer at the Well Hall Open Theatre in Well Hall London.
Fortunately I would be in England for the one in the series that I most wanted
to see, the Sandy Denny concert. Even better was that Richard Thompson was in
the band. I decided to record the concert with the only recorder I had
available, a Radio Shack $20 mono cassette recorder that we had brought from the
USA as a birthday present for my cousin. This is the kind with the built in
condensor mike. Well Hall Open Theatre was an open air band-shell kind of a set
up. A small stage with fold up chairs set up for the audience. The opening act
Cobb never showed up for some reason so Sandy played early, which was fortunate
because it started raining just after she had finished.
The P.A. was atypical 70's setup, not too clear with a bad resonance around
120Hz or so. This caused the vocal and piano in particular to be very muddy.
Anyway, Sandy did a great set and Linda Peters joined in on one tune and it was
a great evening.
I remember taking some pictures with a Kodak instamatic. I have looked for them
many times and so far no luck. I presume they dissapeared in one of my moves.
Hopefully they will turn up one day.

Around 1975 or so I transfered the recording from the cassette (a Boots Chemist
cheapo) to Reel-to-Reel using a Crown IC-150A pre-amp. I patched directly onto
the head and re-equed the pre-amp to match the head output. At that time a Crown
CX824 R2R was state of the art. When DAT came along I transfered the R2R to DAT.
Then when CDR's came along I transfered it to CDR.
Such is the state of the recording today. While not up to today's audio
standards I find it very listenable and is a great part of Sandy history. I
believe this is the only recording to turn up with 'The Rigs of Time' ?"
-------------------

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 18 - 09:42 PM

From the above: "The opening act Cobb never showed up for some reason..."

On the tape, Sandy says towards the end "Cobb's coming on very shortly" so maybe the order was simply switched. (The act/band "Cobb" seems to have vanished without trace, however...)

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 02:30 AM

So there were 2 tapers then. Don't forget that Sugarmegs reduce quality of all recordings beyond recognition, whereas Dime uploads mus comply with very strict rules, and generally be lossless. However different rules exist for webcasts.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,mike
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:28 AM

The band was COB clive's original band

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 04:19 PM

> The band was COB clive's original band

Aha, that would make sense - misspelled COBB on the poster...

> So there were 2 tapers then

Really? I guess you would have to compare the off-stage/near mic noises to make this deduction (I only have the sugarmegs version at this time). But I would have thought that somewhat unlikely (could be wrong of course...)

In the info reproduced on the sugarmegs site, the uploader states:



"I got this in a deplorable condition on CD and couldn't listen to it without immediately jumping to my CD player and either try to adjust the sound or shut off everything. Not enough with that, some "friendly" burning program had obviously inserted pauses of 2 seconds between the track marks, which in a live concert is not really the one thing to do. Cover would have been a phoptocopy of a photocopy...

---------------
That's what I did:
---------------

I took the disc, adjusted the sound, made an analog recording on my Yamaha standalone CD recorder, carried everything to my computer and cut the spaces from between the tracks and set new track marks...

-------------------
And this is what I got:
-------------------

1. I can hear Sandy sing!
2. I don't have to jump up and fumble at buttons to keep myself from going insane.
3. I listen to an early seventies cassette recorder and a really nice concert.

They didn't have the same technical but the same nervous equipment back then, so I hope you'll enjoy the concert with all its imperfections as well as I do.

There's some ugly tone - from the piano I guess. Perhaps that Low-Fi recorder was simply put onto the piano...sounds like the recorder's own resonance at certain notes that perhaps make it jump or vibrate...
And there's someone mounting an alarm clock... I wonder what this can be for at a Sandy Denny concert?!? "



This is exactly the same as on the Dime copy at http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=113271 (you have to be logged in to see this). So I would have thought they were versions of the same file; maybe it would be interesting to see how the 2 waveforms compare...

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 05:35 PM

I shouldn't believe everything you read on Dime!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 07:29 PM

Fair enough... if you or other care to post a portion of the FLAC version from Dime somewhere, I will download it and see if I can work out if they are the same or different, not being a Dime user myself (limited bandwidth etc.) ... I do feel however that if there were indeed 2 different originals of this show, that fact might have come to light already to those "in the know" :) ?? - Regards Tony

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 08:00 PM

BTW Sandy's comment about COB is between "The Lady" and "John the Gun" (around 38:25 in my (sugarmegs) copy): [Sandy]: "Thanks very much... [interrupted by siren passing by] .. I think we'll be having to wind up now, because COB's coming on very shortly..." COB's upcoming set is also mentioned by the emcee prior to Sandy's encore of "The Rigs of The Time", around 50:57.

Of course even if different originals exist, you would expect them both to have recorded the same thing, unless the taper switched off his/her machine in between songs (or the between-song chat was deleted in subsequent edits). However I remain to be convinced that this fairly obscure show - for which both of Sandy's key biographers could not even get the date right - was recorded not once but twice by different persons. Stranger things have happened, though, I guess :) Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 02:26 AM

I don't have access to my cassettes at the moment - we are in Spain, but I'll try to locate it when we return home next week.

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 02:45 AM

Incidentally, I recorded The Mysteries at the National Theatre & Lyceum in 1984/85 and again at the National Theatre in 1999/2000, but of all the 1000s of people who went to see those shows, I can't believe that I was the only one who was recording! In fact I nearly got caught by recording by God - Brian Glover!!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 02:46 AM

Ah, please ignore the extra "by" in my last post!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 03:21 AM

Cassettes???? What am I talking about, my version is on reel and that could be anywhere in our attic!

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 05:49 AM

Good luck finding it, then...

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,SB666
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 10:03 AM

Sugarmegs file is here:

http://ia802205.us.archive.org/26/items/SandyDenny1972-05-08/SandyDenny1972-05-08.mp3

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 01:02 PM

The version on Dime is here:

https://chrisjb-seedbucket.cloud.seedboxes.cc/api/share/qDwM4VKrErpCCjlzijOS

====

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: Tony Rees
Date: 23 Jun 23 - 04:08 AM

Hi Guest,SB,

RE message above - I never have figured out how to download stuff from Dime, also the link above seems to have expired... is there any chance I could acquire the file direct from yourself? You can contact me on tonyrees49 [at] gmail.com if so... :)

PS a 2011 post by Alan Bershaw to the Yahoo SandyDennyList (alas now defunct) definitely said there were 2 independent audience tapes of this show, by Ed Nettleton and Frank Kornellesun - I wonder which was which, also which is the better quality...

Subject: RE: Rare Sandy Denny Track
From: DaveRo
Date: 23 Jun 23 - 04:25 AM

The sugarmegs link still works.