BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 03:16 PM

"Must we go over this again Jim?"
Your moronic necrophobe of a friend brought it up.
I don't give a toss if Britain makes it or not - you say that it doesn't but there again, you haven't stopped lying on this forum.
I suppose it would be a waste of my time asking you for proof that Britain does not "MAKE ANYTHING THAT ASSAD'S MILTARY USE"; you have ignored all requests to do so so far. Do you really have such intimate knowledge of either Syria's military or Britains armaments manufacturing output?
"There is nothing, anywhere that even implies sniper ammunition,"
It was you who first identified the sale as being of sniper rifles - and later changed it to sniper bullets
"You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles.
Apart from anything else, it really does take a special level of stupidity to attempt to downplay the importance of sniper rifles considering the fact that you opened this thread at the time the citizens of Homs, women and children included, were being slaughtered by sniper fire - you really are a bear with very little brain, aren't you?
Your fick mate then backed you up that the sale was of sniper bullets, and he spends most of his life telling his mates down the pub that he is an arms and military expert - he even flashed his weapon for our benefit.
So far we have had around half-a-dozen contradictory reasons for the sale from you:
1: The British Government has sold no weapons to Syria
2: That the 154 export licences issued by the British Government for anything being exported to Syria were all revoked in line with EU rules
3: There are no records of sale or delivery of the ammunition mentioned in your Daily Mail article
4: It was pointed out that the only type of ammunition that Syria could use fitted one type of rifle and the sale (If it ever took place) was for a tiny amount of ammunition and it pre-dated the Arab Spring type demonstrations in Syria by two years.
5: You thought we were talking about Libya (even though you had referred to Syria numerous times in defence of the sale)
6: Now you are claiming that Syria wouldn't buy them because they did not suit the weapons they used (as if you knew what weapons Syria used or what type of ammunition Britain manufactures.
You are a liar Keith, but luckily you are not very bright, which makes you an obvious liar.
You really have dug yourself into a hole with your prevarications - have you measured the length of your nose lately?
Yours as ever,
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 04:31 PM

I suppose it would be a waste of my time asking you for proof that Britain does not "MAKE ANYTHING THAT ASSAD'S MILTARY USE"; you have ignored all requests to do so so far.
Lie.
Teribus gave you a link to a site cataloguing all Assad's weapon systems and their requirements.
None compatible with UK equipment.

"There is nothing, anywhere that even implies sniper ammunition,"
There is not.
You must be mad to claim me as a source!
I am telling you again that I have no knowledge of any.
It would have to be secret knowledge, because it can not be found anywhere, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 05:17 PM

Enough of that ludicrous diversion from a serious subject.

What is your opinion of the "axis of resistance" against Israel?
i.e. Iran, Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas in Gaza.

I despise them.
Not for any irrational reason, but for their inhumanity.
Can we agree on that Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 01:05 AM

Carry On Frothing - Christmas, its mildly amusing

Facts still remain

The British sold no weapons to Syria

British Government Ministers to not declare Official Government Policy on Television Current Affairs Programmes, if they do anything they, like others appearing on the programme (even Comedians), express their own private opinions.

The rest of the world wants the violence to end in Syria, the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, Hezbollah and Hamas want to keep the Assad regime in power and it has been a long time since that was ever going to be accepted by the Syrian people.

Russia - Pure self interest
China - Same
Iran - needs Assad in place to maintain arms supplies to Hezbollah and to Hamas
Hezbollah - need the support of Iran and Assad's regime
Hamas - Same.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 03:37 AM

"Russia - Pure self interest"
Britain and the US - indifference because there's no oil there.
"You must be mad to claim me as a source!"
You were not the source - the Guardian article which included a chart of British arms sales was the source - you merely identified the sale as sniper bullets and presented the sale as unimportant - "but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles" - at a time the citizens of Homs were being slaughtered by sniper fire - says all that needs to be said about your supposed sympathy for the Syrian people.
"Teribus gave you a link to a site cataloguing all Assad's weapon systems and their requirements."
No he didn't - he presented an unsubstantiated list. No government, especially despotic dictatorships, makes public their weaponry.
Both have you have made up 'facts' to back up your disgusting opinions on this thread and elsewhere.
"British Government Ministers to not declare Official Government Policy on Television Current Affairs Programmes"
Any Government declares its policies wherever it is convenient to do so - television interviews, press leaks, sandwiched into subjects that have nothing whatever to do with the information they wish to pass on.
What I reported the day after the programme, was said as described - I would have been insane to make up that information to people who could well have watched one of the most popular current affair programmes in Britain - only Keith does prattish things like that.
You responded to it and have about turned because it has become inconvenient to your present argument.
Jim (Christmas- nice to be back in primary school again - takes decades off my age) Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:39 AM


Britain and the US - indifference because there's no oil there.
What a stupid thing to say.
Anyone following KNOWS that UK/US have not been indifferent, and there is oil.
The TV show.
The Minister could not have denied government policy without consequences, and there were none.
UK government policy was to get Assad out, before and after the show.
I have proved that with official reports and statements.

Your only source for sniper stuff to Syria is me, and I deny it.
You are mad to keep claiming it.

I do not believe any ammunition was supplied, but back when the licence was issued, Assad was not shooting his people.
The small arms would all be pointing at Israel and YOU would not have objected.

Now seriously, what is your opinion of the "axis of resistance" ?
i.e. Iran, Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas in Gaza.

I despise them.
Not for any irrational reason, but for their inhumanity.
Can we agree on that Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 05:27 AM

Today, rebels claim to have killed a Russian General near Damascus, and Iran admits some of its captured people were Islamic Revolutionary Guards, but that they had retired.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 08:11 AM

"and there is oil.
"
No long term oil - within five years Syria will be oil dependent - official - no good to the west I'm afraid.
"Your only source for sniper stuff to Syria is me, and I deny it."
In which case your suggestion that "all you have come up with is some sniper rifles" was an attempt to mislead us - a lie to cover up the sale of small arms ammunition which exists as a documented sale - a lose-lose situation for you whatever line you have now adopted.
"Assad was not shooting his people."
Maybe not but he was arresting them without trial, torturing and disappearing them the Britsih Government wree aware of this yet were still prepared to issue licences to such a monter - an act of evil "can we agree about that?"
"Not for any irrational reason, but for their inhumanity."
I despise all inhuman regimes, including those who use chemical weapons and heavy artillery on civilians, try to starve them into submission, humiliate them on a daily basis, facilitate the massacre of thousands of refugees, murder aid workers..... and those who support them and sell them weapons - can we agree on that or are you selective about which particular terrorist states you despise?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 09:15 AM

In which case your suggestion that "all you have come up with is some sniper rifles" was an attempt to mislead us
No.
As I keep telling you, a mistake.
The only sniper rifles you came up with were not for Syria.

Oil.
"The SPC has undertaken efforts to reverse the trend toward declining oil production and exports by
increasing oil exploration and production in partnership with foreign oil companies. However,
previous US sanctions have excluded U.S. companies from participating, and Syria has been
working with Chinese, Indian, as well as European companies.
Bids have begun to be awarded from a March 2010 bidding round for eight onshore blocks. Total
and Petro-Canada were among the first companies to be awarded exploration licenses in May 2011.
Syria has also opened up its offshore territory for development, although this region is expected to
contain primarily natural gas. The Syrian Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources and SPC
placed three offshore blocks for bid in March 2011, with a deadline of October 5 for submission of
bids.
In addition, Syria's Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources and General Establishment of
Geology and Mineral Resources (GEGMR) announced a bidding round for the development of oil
shale deposits in al-Khanasir, 60 miles southeast of Aleppo. The area for bid consists of 14 blocks,
with total shale oil deposits estimated at 39 billion tons (285 billion barrels). The submission of bids is
due by November 30, 2011."

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 09:26 AM


I despise all inhuman regimes, including those who use chemical weapons and heavy artillery on civilians, try to starve them into submission, humiliate them on a daily basis, facilitate the massacre of thousands of refugees, murder aid workers..... and those who support them and sell them weapons - can we agree on that

YES WE CAN!
And we must both despise that despicable "axis of resistance"
i.e. Iran, Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas in Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 12:37 PM

"As I keep telling you, a mistake."
Your earlier suggestion the you "thought we were talking about Libya" was not only a lie, but an extremely stupid one, as our argument continues copnstantly referring to Syria.
The mistake was in, having identified the ammunition sold as sniper rifles/bullets, you never got your story straight, hence you went through six different versions before you settled on "a mistake".
You backed away from your "some sniper rifles" is when you realised what a foot-in-mouth you had made.
"Oil."
And your point is???
As your article underlines, Syria's oil supply is diminishing at a rate of knots and, unless they find more, they are of no use whatever to the US and Britain as an oil supplier as things stand.
"Syria's oil reserves are being gradually depleted and reached 2.5 billion barrels in January 2009. Experts generally agree that Syria will become a net importer of petroleum by the end of the next decade."
Should they prove successful, which will take years to achieve given the state of the country now, not even the US and Britain, with their record of dealing with terrorist regimes ("We do trade with governments that are not democratic and have bad human rights records",)and backing them with a veto at the UN when necessary, will dare have any dealings with Assad.
Assad's heavy handedness has made his regime useless as a friendly voice in the Middle East virtually useless - in the past it has been a case of "he may be a monster, but he's OUR monster", to quote a US statesman when talking about Marshall Ky in Viet-Nam - no longer applicable in Syria.
"the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas in Gaza."
Yet more Zionist soapboxing - we have no meeting point while you continue to use the fate of the Syrian people as platform for your support for Zionist terrorism. Include all terrorist nations and groups and we might have a meeting point, but not your hypocritical and partisan selectivity.
Nor do we while you indulge in what Kofi Annan described as "finger-pointing". There is blood on the hands of all who have stood by and watched as the slaughter escalates.
The Americans had no problem in becoming involved in the Gulf when its oil supplies were threatened. Britain conducted an illegal invasion of Iraq under the pretence of non- existant WMDs.
Your guardian suggested that it would be "gung-ho" to directly assist the Syrians, yet none of you apologists batted an eyelid when the US sent an invasion force to take out Bin Laden.
TheSyrians have no oil supplies to speak of and, as you have pointed out, they are not to be trusted "I also fear for Syria's Christians if and when the regime falls" so they are left to die while callous bastards stand on the sidelines and support the inactivity (while shedding the occasional crockodile tear.
Now, unless you have anything new to add to your disgusting contribution to the subject.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 01:05 PM

Keith, Jim, I can see that you are both very passionate about this issue. You have pretty much had the run of this thread. I probably should know more so I could decide where I fall on the issue. Embarrassingly enough, I have not done this. However, I think that no matter who your heroes are in this, it is a human tragedy on a large scale.

But I doubt if either of you is going to convince the other. And I cannot begin to sift through the whole thread. YMMV.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 03:54 PM

I do not lie.
I made that statement on 11th Feb believing you had evidence.
In fact your evidence was of sniper rifles for Libya.
You would have realised this but let it go on.
By 16th it was clear none had gone to Syria and I accused you of having lied.
Sorry.
Later still I re-read your original post and acknowledged my error.

Having nothing else you continue even now to make capital from it.

Oil.
There is a significant amount and more to come.
Too much to dismiss.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 12 - 04:05 PM

Saulgoldie, I take your point.
I started the thread and keep it going when no-one else posts.

Middle East threads are usually active, but this subject is difficult for the Left.

To Jim's credit, he was horrified by Assad's crimes and joined in.
The problem is that Assad's enemies are the Gulf Arabs and the West, who he hates, and Assad's friends are the old darlings of the Left.

All Jim can do is try to divert the thread to the arms trade, and find fault with Britain where there is none.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Aug 12 - 10:15 AM

UK is giving an extra £5m of equipment to the opposition, mostly to the FSA.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 12:44 PM

BBC
"She (Hilary Clinton) said after talks in Istanbul that she had discussed with Turkey's foreign minister how best to support opposition to President Bashar al-Assad's rule.

The US, she said, was also increasing aid for Syrian refugees."

Russia, China, Iran, Hezbolla, Hamas, Cuba, still trying to prop up Assad.

I am off for a couple of weeks.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 04:32 AM

BBC today.
Hillary Clinton has called on the United Nations Security Council to make a renewed effort to deal with the conflict in Syria.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has also demanded UN action.

France, Britain and the United States are in favour of taking stronger action against President Bashar al-Assad, but Russia and China are backing the Syrian government.

Mrs Clinton said that the Security Council must end the violence and urged the members to "try once again to find a path forward".

David Cameron also called on the UN to act, telling the annual meeting of the UN General Assembly that recent evidence of crimes against children in Syria is "a terrible stain on the reputation of this United Nations".

He singled out those countries which "failed to stand up to these atrocities and in some cases aided and abetted Assad's reign of terror" for particular criticism.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 10:27 AM

BEIRUT (Reuters) - More than 300 people were killed in Syria on Wednesday, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said, in one of the bloodiest days in the 18-month uprising against President Bashar al-Assad.
World leaders meeting at the United Nations have expressed concern at the continuing violence in Syria but are deadlocked over their response to the conflict, which the Observatory says has claimed 30,000 lives since March 2011.
The British-based organization, which monitors violence in Syria through a network of activists, said in a report released on Thursday that 55 people were killed in rural areas around Damascus. They included at least 40 who appeared to have been shot in cold blood in the town of al-Dhiyabia, southeast of the capital.
Other activists have put the death toll in al-Dhiyabia as high as 107, blaming Assad's security forces for what they said was a massacre. Video published by activists showed rows of bloodied corpses wrapped in blankets. The victims shown on camera appeared to be male, from 20-year-olds to elderly men.
The Observatory also said 14 people were killed in a rebel bomb attack on a military command centre in Damascus and in an ensuing prolonged gunbattle between rebels and security forces.
Violence in Syria has deepened as the fight against Assad has became more militarized and the president has responded with increasing use of force - including regular air strikes and bombardments against rebel areas.
In the first nine months of the conflict, the United Nations human rights chief said around 5,000 people had been killed. U.N. officials have given up trying to monitor the violence but the Observatory's figures suggest five times as many people have been killed in the second nine-month period.
The Centre for Documentation of Violations in Syria, which is linked to the grassroots anti-Assad Local Coordination Committees, puts the overall death toll at 27,318.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 05:29 AM

Sixty thousand documented deaths so far according to UN, plus unknowable number undocumented.
UN describes as unexpectedly and shockingly high.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 01:08 PM

Time to remember that the West, who did nothing (unless you count selling Assad sniper rifle ammunition - or so I'm informed by 'experts')
have, by their inaction, driven the Syrian people into the arms of the militant extremists (or so we are informed by the Syrian opposition to the Assad regime "the west has stood by and done nothing..."!!!)- but they could be lying, of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:21 AM

There you have it.
Sixty thousand killings, everyone committed by Arabs, using weapons supplied by Russia, China, Iran or Arabs, but who does Knee-Jerk Jim blame?
The West of course!
Only the West.
A grim subject Jim, but your total predictability is comical.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:24 AM

Jim, do you still advocate more Western boots marching in to another Arab land?
Do you still advocate an embargo on the already starving Syrians?

For a Leftie you make a good Fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 07:47 AM

You have the evidence before you of the part the Un an and the West in general played in Syria - you were even good enough to identify the sniper ammunition information yourself
It is the job of the UN to get involved , as they did in the other Arab Spring revolts; and, had there been anything in it for them the US wouldn't have hestated, with the full blessing of their Westminster poodle
You've had the facts, you've done your Henry Irving tragedy scene - now put up or shut up
Memo to self fo the new year - avoid vaccuous jackbooted morons
Byee
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:44 AM

I have repeatedly admitted my mistaken reference to sniper ammunition supplied to Syria.
As there is no other reference to it from anyone else in the whole world, it clearly never existed.
You know this, but you still attempt to make a case over it.
It shows how pathetic you argument was and is.

The UN is not the West Jim.
The clue is in the name.
The West can do nothing within UN because two permanent Security Council members, China and Russia, block every attempt.
So who does Knee-Jerk Jim blame?

The West of course!
Only the West.
Again your total predictability is comical.

Jim, do you still advocate more Western boots marching in to another Arab land?
Do you still advocate an embargo on the already starving Syrians?

For a Leftie you make a good Fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 05:11 AM

In her final press interview as US Secretary of State, Mrs Clinton said one of Iran's "highest priorities" was keeping Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in power.

"We believe they have acted on that by sending in more personnel, not only to help Assad, but to support and advise military security forces," she told reporters.

Mrs Clinton added that Iran had increased the quality of its arms sent to Syria because "Assad is using up his weaponry".

She expressed similar concerns with regards to Russia's involvement in the conflict.

"We have reason to believe that the Russians continue to supply financial and military assistance in the form of equipment," she said

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 07:05 AM

CNN) -- Shouting condemnation and promises of retaliation, Syria, Iran and Hezbollah on Thursday condemned Israel's decision to send warplanes into Syria, calling its airstrike a day before "inhuman" and "barbaric."
Russia also condemned Wednesday's attack, saying it would represent an unprovoked violation of United Nations charter if confirmed.
Syria's Foreign Ministry summoned the commander of U.N. forces in the Golan Heights on Thursday to formally complain about the incident, while Iran's deputy foreign minister, Hossein Amir Abdollahian, warned the attack would have "dire consequences" for Israel, according to Iran's semiofficial Mehr News Agency.

I think that Israel had a legitimate concern about Hezbollah getting "game changing" weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 04:56 AM

New milestones.
Death toll now put at 70 000.
Refugees now reached one million.
7 000 fleeing Syria every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 08:20 AM

What is a "red line"?
Sarin is believed to have been used.
That was supposed to be one.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:16 AM

Guardian today.
Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, has confirmed for the first time that members of the powerful Lebanese Shia organisation are helping President Bashar al-Assad fight the uprising against his rule – and will stand by him.

Nasrallah – a close ally of Assad – also hinted that Russia and Iran, Syria's principal supporters, would intervene militarily to prevent his defeat.

"Syria has real friends in the region and the world that will not let Syria fall in the hands of America, Israel or Takfiri (extreme jihadi) groups," Nasrallah said in a broadcast on Hezbollah's al-Manar TV channel. "How will this happen? Details will come later. I say this based on information … rather than wishful thinking."

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 13 - 03:10 AM

More horrific massacres last week.
UN inspector says rebels used Sarin.
Israel made more and bigger strikes against missiles being transferred to Hezbollah.
The refugee crisis is a humanitarian catastrophe.
No-one knows what to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:55 AM

Russia and US to hold conference.
They are hoping to get regime and opposition to talk.
Hope it works.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: bobad
Date: 18 May 13 - 02:34 PM

Political scientist and public intellectual Michael Ignatieff says the international community has a duty to intervene in Syria. He told DW that he sees signs of the emergence of new global security architecture.

Ignatieff: 'We have a duty to intervene in Syria'

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 May 13 - 12:37 PM

Let's hope Putin is prepared to move this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:09 AM

Thousands of Sunnis from Lebanon are in Syria fighting against Lebanese Shia, mainly Hezbollah.
How long before they fight each other within Lebanonn, restarting the civil war there?
Likewise Iraq. Thousands of Shia are in Syria while back in Iraq Sunni/Shia massacres are spiralling out of control.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 May 13 - 05:02 PM

More than 70 massacred in Iraq today.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: mayomick
Date: 21 May 13 - 07:46 AM

The US government is trying to destabilize the Syrian regime while the latter is battling Al Qaida. And then an NYT editorial today asks why Russia is arming Syria! The Assad regime may be far from perfect , but isn't Al qaida supposed to be America's number one enemy ? I would have thought it more appropriate to ask why America isn't arming Syria.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/opinion/why-is-russia-still-arming-syria.html?_r=0

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: bobad
Date: 21 May 13 - 08:34 AM

"The US government is trying to destabilize the Syrian regime while the latter is battling Al Qaida."

Absolute fear mongering tripe.

Educate yourself: Guide to the Syrian opposition

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: mayomick
Date: 21 May 13 - 12:45 PM

I've just read the BBC's guide to the Syrian opposition and it is absolute codswallop . I hope you're not a supporter of Islamic terrorism , Bobad .
Read the world socialist website and you'll get a far better insight into what's really going on in Syria than you will on the BBC :

"Far from providing "humanitarian aid" and backing a "moderate" opposition, they are arming far-right Islamist militias with the help of Middle Eastern allies like Turkey and Saudi Arabia, whose efforts are overseen by the CIA."


http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/05/14/syri-m14.html
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/05/14/syri-m14.html

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: bobad
Date: 21 May 13 - 01:18 PM

You dismiss the BBC report yet you cite the World Socialist Website as your authority? C'mon, you're putting me on, right?

Here is a comprehensive outline of The Structure and Organization of the Syrian Opposition including it's fighting units.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: mayomick
Date: 22 May 13 - 12:14 PM

You dismiss my comment with a patronising "educate yourself" reference to the BBC , I don't see why I shouldn't dismiss what you say with a reference to the WSWS, Bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: bobad
Date: 26 May 13 - 09:04 PM

It appears that Assad's forces, reinforced by fighters from the Lebanese Shiite movement Hezbollah, are starting to turn the tables on the rebels leading to the prospect of the two sides engaging in peace talks.

The Raw Story

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 May 13 - 01:17 AM

Also Shia fighters from Iraq, and assistance from Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: bobad
Date: 27 May 13 - 10:49 AM

DEAD SEA, Jordan — Lebanon's Hezbollah has 5,000 troops fighting alongside President Bashar Assad's forces in Syria, and another 5,000 are getting ready to join them, a World Economic Forum gathering heard Sunday.

Salman Shaikh, director of the Doha Center of the Brookings Institution think tank, said there were also 1,500-2,000 fighters from Iraq in the battlegrounds of Syria. He said that not only was Syria "on the abyss," but that after two years of civil war, there was growing danger that the fighting could draw in "the entire region."

Shaikh cited the Hezbollah figures a day after the Shiite group's leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah admitted for the first time that his group had deployed fighters to Syria, saying his group would not stand idly by while its chief ally is under attack.

Shaikh said Israel "should do its best to stay out of the conflict." But "it should also give up on the old paradigm of 'better the devil you know.'" He said his fear was that "Israel will be increasingly drawn in" — in part because of ongoing Russian weapons supplies to Syria, and because the UN peacekeeping forces in Syria and Lebanon were coming under increasing strain.

Shaikh said that the US hesitation over intervention in Syria derived in part from the legacy of the "illegal war" in Iraq. President Barack Obama, he said, "doesn't want to get involved in the complexity of the Syrian crisis." He said that hesitancy was likely to persist, though it could be affected by the use of chemical weapons and the degree of extremist involvement in the fighting.

But only a fool would believe that the latest attempts at negotiation were going to make a difference, he said. The Assad regime does not take the so-called Geneva process seriously, he said. Instead, it is looking ahead to elections next year, and has already "calculated" the result — a victory for Assad with 70-75 percent of the vote.

The killing of civilians in Syria "is going to on for a very long time," he said. "Many more are going to die in the months and possibly years ahead."

At the same panel, Sarah Leah Whitson, director of Human Rights Watch's Middle East and North Africa division, said the regime was responsible for the overwhelming majority of human rights abuses since the fighting broke out. She said HRW had recently found torture devices used by the regime — included devices used "to stretch people to death." HRW had not found a basis for allegations of widespread rape, she said.

The gathering was told that there are currently some 1.5 million Syrian refugees in neighboring countries — and that this number would likely double by the year's end.

More than 70,000 people have been killed since the uprising against Assad erupted in March 2011 and escalated into a civil war. The Syrian government and Hezbollah deny there is an uprising in Syria, portraying the war as a foreign-backed conspiracy driven by Israel, the US and its Gulf Arab allies.

The Times of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: bobad
Date: 28 May 13 - 09:35 AM

Chemical warfare in Syria

Le Monde

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 May 13 - 10:43 AM

EU has voted not to renew arms embargo.
UK will start supplying arms to "moderate rebels" in August if no negotiations forthcoming.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: akenaton
Date: 28 May 13 - 01:30 PM

Unbelievable hypocrisy and stupidity.
Supplying "moderate rebels" with arms is going to lessen the killing?
What planet does that cunt Hague live on? Is he related to the Bloody Earl?

Does anyone seriously think that any weapons sent to the "moderate rebels" will not immediately be appropriated by the "immoderate rebels"

It would be funny if it wasn't so bloody pathetic, the country is being raised to the ground by an insurrection, the regime cant stop for if they do they will end up dead and with a bayonet up their arses, just like col Gadaffi.

Perhaps with their hearts and livers eaten by the "moderate and immoderate rebels"

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 May 13 - 04:16 AM

Yes, but there is this overwhelming feeling that "something must be done" about a monstrous evil that we have to see on our screens every day.
Last night we all endured "the worst massacre so far."

We sort of expect our leaders to know what to do for the best.
They don't and nor does anyone else.
The least bad outcome may be that one side wins quickly, whatever carnage it takes, and however grim their philosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 08:09 AM

UN report says "new levels of brutality."

"War crimes, crimes against humanity and gross human rights violations continue apace," it added, reporting 17 incidents that could be called massacres between mid-January and mid-May.

The panel cited increasing use of indiscriminate weapons, including cluster munitions, barrel bombs and surface-to-surface missiles as evidence of the "flagrant disregard" of government forces for the distinction between combatants and civilians demanded by international law.

"crimes that shock the conscience have become a daily reality," Mr. Pinheiro said, reciting a list of abuses that included murder, extrajudicial execution, torture, recruitment of children and hostage taking.

There was a disparity between the abuses and crimes committed by government forces and militia and those conducted by rebel groups, he acknowledged, "but this is a disparity in intensity, it is not a disparity in the nature of the crimes." He added, "They are the same."

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 08:26 AM

Dozens of women and children were killed in May in the coastal villages of Baida and Banias, where evidence links the slaughter to government-backed militia, it said.

Eleven kneeling, blindfolded men were shot in the back of the head in Deir al-Zor province by al Qaeda-linked Nusra Front rebels, the report said, citing a video that appeared in May.

Regarding a separate incident near Deir al-Zor in which the evidence also points to rebels, it said: "Video footage emerged showing a child participating in the beheading of two kidnapped men. Following investigation, it is believed that the video is authentic and the men were soldiers, killed as depicted."

Subject: RE: BS: Homs horror (Syria, 2012)
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 10:34 AM

"Had he [President Obama] armed Syria's rebels early in the conflict, he could have empowered a moderate opposition, toppled the regime, sidelined Sunni jihadists, prevented the bloodbath we now have, stemmed the refugee crisis and dealt a sharp strategic setback to Iran—all without any U.S. military involvement."

Bret Stephens: The Muslim Civil War WSJ