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Does this technology exist-notation from recording

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Tunesmith 23 Jun 12 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 23 Jun 12 - 10:17 AM
Tunesmith 23 Jun 12 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 23 Jun 12 - 10:49 AM
GUEST,leeneia 23 Jun 12 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 23 Jun 12 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,Grishka 23 Jun 12 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,leeneia 23 Jun 12 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 23 Jun 12 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,Stim 23 Jun 12 - 06:33 PM
Bert 23 Jun 12 - 07:00 PM
GUEST,highlandman at home 24 Jun 12 - 06:01 PM
Peter Butler 25 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM
Susan of DT 25 Jun 12 - 08:49 AM
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Subject: Does this technology exist?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 09:44 AM

I'm sure I've heard of a computer software program that enables the user to play a solo piece of music( piano, guitar) into the computer and have it printed out in standard music format( i.e. crochets, quavers etc).
Please tell me that I haven't simply dreamed or imagined this!


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 10:17 AM

Yes...

the software for use with Midi keyboards and other midi input devices
has been available in different forms & retail brands for well over a decade.

What's really new in the last couple of years
is a low cost performance to midi device marketed by "Sonuus"
that can quite reliably translate monophonic audio to midi.

ie.. you can now record voice and other monophonic acoustic instruments
direct into a mic and capture the midi signal as notation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaNlcXuGmI


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 10:27 AM

Great! Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 10:49 AM

.. and a more detailed music tech promo video illustrating how "Sonuus" can be used for creating notation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWXGGotuLNE

at it's simplest, Sonuus make reasonable claims you can plug in a mic and basically 'la la la' or hum a melody
direct to printable notation.


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 12:32 PM

Yes, but is the notation usable? There are lots of MIDI's that produce overly-accurate notation that recorded every tiny variation in note length produced by a human playing or singing. Those MIDI's are useless for anything except listening, because they are a sequence of goofy note lengths and funny ties.

Don't spend money on software till you know if this problem has been solved.

As far as I know, producing usable music notation (sticks and dots) is a rather time-consuming process which requires telling your computer the note-length and pitch. Simple music, like a dance tune, can go pretty fast. A Beethoven piano concerto, not so fast.

That video about the Sonuus product says it can produce tablature, not sticks & dots. (Their product is for electric bass guitar.) And there was something else about it just being for bass lines. In addition to the Sonuus unit, you need a computer that's MIDI equiped, and you need software, (apparently unspecified) on that computer. I didn't watch it all - the kidly squealing on the electric guitar got on my nerves too much.

I suggest turning your volume down before clicking on that link.


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 12:52 PM

ok Leenia, ignore that particular video, or at least don't get tied up in it's specific scenario details.

Nobody as yet as I can find has uploaded a simpler demonstration tutorial
illustrating basic vocal pitch to midi conversion for realistically usable notation
with a Sonuus product.

.. and there is a slightly more expensive general purpose USB version of the pitch to midi converter
that is not marketed specifically only to guitarists.

I know from experience how well it works with electric guitars,
so I feel fairly well assured that with practiced careful use
it could be just as easy to convert clearly sung reasonably in tune vocal melodies.

With the practical option of manually tidying up individual notes afterwards
in your chosen sequencing software.

I am not the kind of person to be easily seduced by product marketing claims,
but in this instance I am inclined to accept that it may be genuinely achievable.


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 01:36 PM

Tunesmith, if you tell us what exactly you want to do and what hardware and software you possess, we may give you more advice.

There are two distinct problems involved:
  1. Converting sound to MIDI (not necesssary for owners of a MIDI keyboard or some other MIDI input device)

  2. Converting MIDI events to MIDI files with the correct metric structure, what Leeneia is talking about.
The second problem is usually solved either by following a metronome beat, or by selecting note values (including rests) separately.


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 04:29 PM

hi, punkfolkrocker. I'll keep all that in mind.

I have a cassette tape of old-time Midwestern fiddlers. How nice it would be to play it into something and get the sticks and dots for that music.


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 05:40 PM

If it's a clean clear recording of a solo instrumentalist..

maybe, in theory, it could be possible.. ??

But remember this Sonuus device is only affordable * because it is monophonic.

More than one note played at a time will confuse the converter and cause glitches.

[* approx £70 or just over £100 for the USB version]


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 06:33 PM

The real problem is that sticks and dots never literally correspond to what is played. Written notes are just instructions that the performer must interpret. That works the other way, too, so that what is actually performed has to be trimmed and cleaned up according to the conventions of notation, before you've got something useable on the page.

This is true whether you're using software, or doing it the old fashioned way with pen and ink--probably a good thing, or musicians would be unnecessary...


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist-notation from recording
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 07:00 PM

I tried some of the freeware products out there and haven't had much luck. The best I found was a two step process, audio to midi and midi to score.

The results were really unusable as every slight variation turned up on the score.

But that was with singing though. A guitar solo might give you better results.


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist-notation from recording
From: GUEST,highlandman at home
Date: 24 Jun 12 - 06:01 PM

I haven't used Sonuus, but recent observations suggest that the capability to render multi-part audio to notation may be very near on the horizon.
Melodyne (the pitch-correction people) are putting out a version that purports to identify all the notes in a polyphonic audio clip and correct them independently. One would think that the ability to computer-ly recognize the notes would lead directly to the ability to put them out as notation or MIDI.
As far as the horror raw MIDI recordings make of the notation, leeneia, I've found in my messing about with sequencers that the right "quantize" settings can handle 90% of the cleaning-up. The last bit will always be up to the human, but it can get rid of most of the mess and give you something to work with.
-Glenn


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist-notation from recording
From: Peter Butler
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 06:18 AM

I am the UK distributor for the Sonuus range of products.

Punkfolkrocker is correct in that the G2M (guitar to MIDI), b2M (Bass to MIDI) and i2M (Guitar/Bass to USB - MIDI and original signal) can all be used with other instruments.

They are monophonic but we have had users successfully try the devices with wind instruments, violins, and even voice. Where microphones have been used (rather than a pickup), it has sometimes been necessary to route the signal through a mixer or pre-amp.

Sonuus

Peter


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Subject: RE: Does this technology exist-notation from recording
From: Susan of DT
Date: 25 Jun 12 - 08:49 AM

Is there a program to convert a recording/mp3 into sheet music? Preferably with room to add the words?

Is there a program to play a scan of sheet music that works?


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