Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: hobbitwoman Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:45 PM Uncle Jaque, just saw Joan Baez in concert Wednesday night, and I can attest, it is definitely more about music and introducing new folk talent - never even mentioned the word Taliban! The only thing she said that was remotely "political" was when she dedicated "Christmas in Washington" to the families who lost loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy, and are now over in Afghanistan trying to help families who have lost loved ones in the fighting over there. She also made a remark about herself and her former disdain for the "old songs" and how at one time everything she sang had to have political merit, but now she sings songs just for the love of them. You really ought to treat yourself and go see her! I think you'd enjoy it very much. Annie |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:40 PM Uncle Jacque, from the reveiws I've read of Joan's current tour, it's more about music and intoducing new folk talent than about the taliban. Jesus, put your claws back in there, dude |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Uncle Jaque Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:36 PM Friend Kendall; We never have slept with an AK-47, although I do recall a couple of nights in the Republic of Korea just after the USS Pueblo was siezed by the Kong-San spending a few intimate nights with my M-14. That could be a little cold and lumpy if you rolled over onto it - I'll take a nice warm soft woman any night! };>{)~ |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:18 PM Janice, if you think that was Arlo, think again. One of our cute trolls that posts as a lot of different people....(:<)) Spaw |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Janice in NJ Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:16 PM First people go dissing Joan, and now they go dissing Arlo. Who's next? Pete perhaps? Wish I was sleeping with an AK-47! |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: kendall Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:30 PM UJ, I'd be glad to have a long talk with you someday. I'm a recovered conservative you know! |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Uncle Jaque Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:01 PM I guess you could say that like some who have already given credit here to "Joanie" for instilling an early passion for "Folk" music, she did that for me as well, back around '62 or '63. I think I wore out a couple of her albums and went hoarse singing some of those old songs back then.
Although she was a full-grown woman when I was still a teenager, I yearned to meet a woman like her someday, and my Wife's slight resemblance, guitar playing and singing voice may well have been a factor in the relationship that is now at 30 years and holding. Then something happened with my beloved "Joanie"; there was that nasty affair going on in Asia, young people all over - with the exception of most of us rustic back-hill-folk - were getting all silly and dressing funny, the Russians were supposed to nuke us into oblivion at any time, and Joanie suddenly stopped singing the old songs. It seemed that all she would utter had to involve some sort of vitriolic protestation, or she had nothing to sing or talk about at all. I suppose that there was plenty of stuff to legitimately protest, and worthy causes to champion.... but would it have hurt all that much to sing "Amazing Grace" just once in the midst of all that? Actually I did hear her on the Public Radio about 25 years later singing it, and it surprised me that she still had it in her.
We havn't heard much from our Folkie Sweetheart of the '60's over the intervening years, but from what there has been it's been apparant that she's still very much "got it", musically speaking.
If I'm going to sit through a couple of hours worth of ranting and diatribe orchestrated to tear down and heap contempt upon the United States of America, I figure that we don't need to buy a $35 ticket for it. Shucks, anyone who enjoys that form of entertainment can come here to the Mudcat and peruse the "POL" threads for that amount of time for free.
Farewell, "Joanie"; It's been nice tae ken ye. I hope ye don't mind if I still sing, ever so softly when no one's listening, some of your old songs... from back when ye sang them just for the joy, and the love of it. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Feb 02 - 07:02 PM Well, it's certainly more than kind of you to offer us one, ADG... What a swell guy you must be to be so generous. - LH |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 23 Feb 02 - 05:35 PM Well, what do YOU think about Joan, Arlo? After all, you probably know her better than any of us do. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: kendall Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:16 PM Who referred to Noel Paul Stookey as, "Born again Sesame Street"? |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: GUEST,ADG Date: 23 Feb 02 - 02:11 PM Some of you really do need to get a life. ADG |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: DonMeixner Date: 23 Feb 02 - 12:42 PM Thats OK Dave, its worth the effort to read it. BTW, notice that after starting this thread, Guest, Johnnythe bone apparently hasn't been back to comment on it. Just a comment from here. Don |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: van lingle Date: 23 Feb 02 - 12:16 PM yes murray i do. i've recently had rotator cuff surgery and am typing with just my left hand for the time being but thanks for the input and i guess i'll try to be a bit more concise. regards, dave |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:55 AM Dave, do you realize how much extra effort it takes to read posts which are typed in lower case with no indentation ? Murray |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: van lingle Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:40 AM janice in nj thanks for sharing your experience here. i grew up loving the guitar and singing of the young joan as my dad bought all her early vanguard recordings. than later on i guess my tastes changed and i started to loath the quality of her voice which, imo, had become kind of strident and annoying. well afew years back, after having not heard her for decades i saw her on austin city limits with a very good acoustic band featuring a dreadlocked guitarist playing some very hot stuff fingerstyle and was once again knocked out by joan's singing and very loose and vivacious performing style. i think she had settled into a voal range that better suited her. i don't really concern myself much with people's personal lives that i don't know but i believe joan has remained a committed liberal and david harris became some kind of right wing guru. regards,dave |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Haruo Date: 23 Feb 02 - 03:26 AM I love her too. Though I was actually weaned on PP&M, who I understand will be performing at the Puyallup Fair this September. How about them? Are they frauds? Liland |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Coyote Breath Date: 22 Feb 02 - 11:02 PM remember the pledge? |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: GUEST,jaze Date: 22 Feb 02 - 10:56 PM One thing I've notice regarding JB. People either love her or hate her . Not much in the middle ground. But is it her voice or her politics? She was certainly brash in her younger years. Had to have been hard to suddenly be "Queen" at 18. I've always thought most of America hated her politics. Here, it seems, people dislike her singing style. What about her do you think garners the most reaction, her voice or her politics? |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Steve Latimer Date: 22 Feb 02 - 10:53 PM I too am with Sean M on this one. I truly can't listen to her, her voice grates on me, but she is a woman of conviction and I respect her. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Peter Kasin Date: 22 Feb 02 - 10:37 PM I love her voice. Her vibrato never seemed flowery or overdone to me. It sounds full of emotion but not full of theatrics. Sometimes vibrato can still have a folk sound or convey raw emotionalism, such as in the singing of Ewan MacColl. It takes a brilliant folksinger to pull it off and with those few exceptions I generally don't go for it. chanteyranger |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Feb 02 - 10:04 PM Yes, Joan always was even-handed in her comments, not sparing hypocrisy regardless of which side of the political divide it was on. This earned her many enemies among both "liberals" and "conservatives" (2 labels which are frequently misleading), and among straights and radicals. Her very amusing comment about marijuana was "It's stupid to make marijuana illegal. Of course, it's stupid to smoke it too." Brilliant summation of the cannabis issue! The world in general can't stand people as honest and forthright as Joan Baez. As for the vibrato, when Joan was young she had NO vibrato, and was so perturbed about it that she tried all kinds of techniques in order to develop some. Eventually she succeeded, much to the chagrin of those who dislike vibrato! Ironical, isn't it? - LH |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Suffet Date: 22 Feb 02 - 09:46 PM Jaze, I believe Rasta's point is well taken, and he/she is not confusing Joan Baez with Jane Fonda. Both made trips to North Vietnam during the Vietnam War, but no one has ever accused Joan Baez of betraying American POWs. (Those accusations against Jane Fonda may in fact be false, but nevertheless one hears them.) Furthermore, as Janice pointed out, when Joan Baez went of North Vietnam, she critized its leaders for human rights violations. If I recall correctly, Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden (Fonda's husband at the time), and the American left in general gave Ms. Baez a really hard time after that. --- Steve |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: michaelr Date: 22 Feb 02 - 08:45 PM Ooh ooh, there seems to be a consensus that JB is some sort of sacred cow, not to be criticized! Personally, I think she's always used WAY too much vibrato, which runs counter to what I call folk singing. (That doesn't make her a fraud, just operatic.) I'd rather hear Sandy Denny. Michael |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 22 Feb 02 - 08:16 PM What SeanM said. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: GUEST,jaze Date: 22 Feb 02 - 08:16 PM Rasta, I think you're confusing Joan Baez with Jane Fonda. The story I heard was that Jane Fonda betrayed some POW's trying to get a message home via her and were then beaten by their captors. I don't know if it's true, but I beleive the story was told later by one of the POW's. I think Joan Baez is too much of a humanitarian to have done something like that,all politics aside. I was stunned that Jane Fonda would. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: SeanM Date: 22 Feb 02 - 05:52 PM How about everything gets summed up with "Do YOU think she's a fraud?" Because it's all a matter of opinion unless she's doing pyramid marketing scams, forging money/artwork/patent registrations, running Enron, or any number of other fraud based activities. I don't like her. I respect what she's done though, and respect what she's brought to folk music. Enough said. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: hobbitwoman Date: 22 Feb 02 - 04:42 PM Joan Baez is largely responsible for my love of folk music, as well. I "discovered" her music when I was 17 and have loved it ever since. She was absolutely wonderful when I saw her in concert Wednesday night. Yes, Murray, Richard Shindell both opened for her and backed her up, and he is marvelous! I love what Joan is doing for "young" talent these days. She may well be one of the reasons folk music is handed down to the next generation. (Yes, there were a *few* young people in the crowd Wednesday night so there's hope!) Annie |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Lonesome EJ Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:59 PM Joan is one of the remnant of that school of female singers who exceeded in clarity of tone, emotive quality, and pure power rather than the variety of vocal calisthenics and breathy posturings that pass for the state of the art these days. She and Judy Collins were and are great. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:30 PM JamesJim! Good to see ya back. How're things? |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: John MacKenzie Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:20 PM Tap your heels together Steve! |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Steve in Idaho Date: 22 Feb 02 - 02:11 PM Ah Little Hawk - the true question is - Is Star trek real?? Spaw - We are in Kansas, the sun is shining, and my little red shoes are sparkling. Steve |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Bennet Zurofsky Date: 22 Feb 02 - 01:56 PM It appears that Al Capp's defamations live on long after his own death. As I recollect it, he was the one to first label Joan Baez a fraud through the addition of a "Joannie Phoannie" to the Li'l Abner crowd in Dogpatch. It was just a matter of reactionary politics and that is all it is now. Anyone who lived through the shit Bob Dylan put her through has suffered more than enough to earn a dispensation from all further crap. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Feb 02 - 11:47 AM Ho! Ho! Let's ask some more dumb questions... Is Idi Amin a humanitarian? Is Dubya a Rhodes scholar? Is Stepen Hawking a mental midget? Is Woody Allen a handsome devil? Gimme a break... - LH |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Big Tim Date: 22 Feb 02 - 11:41 AM JBs mother was, still is?, Scottish, born in Edinburgh, according to Joan last time I saw her on stage about two years ago in Glasgow, Scotland. Responding to a unexpected request from a member of the audience Joan sang that long and intricate ballad "The Four Mary's" word perfect, "as I rode into Glasgow town the city for to see". That's a fraud? Mrs Baez was in the audience! |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Rustic Rebel Date: 22 Feb 02 - 11:23 AM If your offering me diamonds and rust, I've already paid. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: GUEST Date: 22 Feb 02 - 10:05 AM Joan's mother was, I understand, Irish, so she qualifies for her national birthright of begrudgery - i.e. if you're successful enough, some of your own are bound to knock you. But I loved her own put-down of Dylan years after he allegedly "sold out": "the only cause Dylan believes in is Dylan!" Thread creep alert? |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: GUEST,Roger O'K Date: 22 Feb 02 - 10:01 AM |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Spartacus Date: 22 Feb 02 - 09:50 AM Joan Baez is not a fraud. Fraud...Does that mean she sings folk songs in front of her fans and then secretly goes home and listens to Def Leppard records? I personally can't stand Joan's voice. I like a little scatch in my records, if you know what I mean. Joan always had a little to much vibrato for my tastes. Too much Kingston Trio and not enough Bessie Smith. This is, however, my humble opinion, and by no means constitutes fraud... |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: mack/misophist Date: 22 Feb 02 - 09:25 AM Is she a fraud? I don't know. But I do know people who were teachers in her son's school. They tell me she and/or her mother were at every PTA meeting possible. WITHOUT camera men or reporters. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Maryrrf Date: 22 Feb 02 - 09:17 AM Well, I don't think Joan Baez is a fraud and she is largely responsible for my love of folk (traditional) music. I loved her first albums and some of her later ones although I wish she'd stuck to her "traditional" roots for the most part. But that just reflects my personal preferences. Now when I go back and listen I love her pure voice but she sounds a little cold and emotionless and sometimes a bit shrill...just an observation. I think she wrote something in her autobiography - I'm writing from memory and mine is kind of hazy now, about David Harris belittling her and her music - calling it "airy fairy" - or maybe that was somebody else. Anyhow, I heard a quote from her (not directly) that she dismissed the old songs she used to do as "museum pieces" that were no longer relevant. That hurt, as those songs are very much alive and relevant to me and many others. SAY IT AIN'T SO, JOAN! |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: kendall Date: 22 Feb 02 - 09:00 AM If changing with the times makes you a fraud, then we are all guilty. Stop knocking the woman I love. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 22 Feb 02 - 07:39 AM I checked the thread out, xo she's a "fraud" because she recorded a misheard lyric? If that is the criterion for fraudulence, then every folk singer alive is a fraud. What a load of crap. But it is interesting to see that there is always somebody prepared to take a potshot at the true greats. Murray |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: GUEST,jaze Date: 22 Feb 02 - 06:34 AM If she's a fraud, I'll take her brand of it any day. There are few people I can think of who have maintained their ideals and beliefs as consistently as Joan Baez. Her commitment to non-violence and helping those less fortunate has been life long with her-it didn't fade away with the 60's. Of course she's not perfect, who is? And don't forget the cost her committment has had on her own career. Not able to get a recording contract with a major label in the US. Virtually ignored by the press. Some of the people "Biograhy" chooses to spotlight are laughable, yet here's someone who actually did something with their life and she's passed over. She's still bringing new and up and coming folk artists to the public(remember Dylan?) I don't care what anyone else says, but I'll take my hat off to Joan Baez any day. James |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 22 Feb 02 - 06:22 AM If you read her autobiog "And A Voice To Sing With", she says that she fell very deeply in love with someone "in Los Angeles" who is never named, which seems to have happened during the time her husband was apart from her. (I'm writing from memory so details - which she never goes into anyway - are hazy.) I always got the impression that there was nothing cynical in either her union with, or her parting from, David Harris. As everyone knows, love isn't something we have power over. Best of all, read her book and let her tell it in her own words. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Teribus Date: 22 Feb 02 - 04:08 AM Hi Murray, I think Guest Johnnythebone was referring to the following comment posted in another thread: Subject: RE: Night They Drove Ol' Dixie..help From: GUEST,Jazzy Jeff Date: 19-Feb-02 - 01:16 AM Joan Baez is a fraud. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Big Tim Date: 22 Feb 02 - 02:32 AM Oh oh the folk police have survived into the new millenium! None of us are perfect, including JB, but she introduced a lot of people to folk music. She is a woman of great integrity and, more importantly, one of the greatest actual singers of the lot. Voicewise, I can only think of Mary O'Hara as being comparable. Did she "sellout" too! |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Feb 02 - 12:21 AM Hey Pansy....How ya' doin'? Nice weather for this time of year here......How's things in KS? Spaw |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: JamesJim Date: 22 Feb 02 - 12:18 AM yes. |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: WyoWoman Date: 21 Feb 02 - 11:19 PM hoooh boy .... |
Subject: RE: Is Joan Baez a fraud? From: Amergin Date: 21 Feb 02 - 11:01 PM Janice...so everyone should agree with you? I saw nothing trolling in this thread....just some questions. |
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