Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?

Subject: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:13 AM

This place used to have intelligent discussion about music.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:17 AM

Jed- Apparently, people are letting their passion rule them instead of ruling their passions. It's a big fat Rousseau-fest. Next thing everyone will be out wailing, rending their clothing and beating their breasts in the woods in the name of fighting (insert cause so powerful that it results in people losing their humanity here...)

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:17 AM

The stretch from January through about March seems to be "flame" season on the cat - at least that is the pattern I've seen; I dunno - 'cabin fever' for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere?

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:19 AM

Probably when people feel helpless, they use any outlet they can find to express themselves. This is an important historic moment, so I for one am content to see what people say. It may turn into music, who can determine? yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:30 AM

JEB! Brother!!! Look at the words of Good ol' Rebel, Patriot Games, and a good amount of other folk music. There has been lots of music here, but rage, well, when marches are banned in New York because of presidential proclamation and we stand poised on the verge of world war, YES it is a time for rage for some folk musicians, and withdrawl into a haze of pretty sounds for others... that's life.
All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:31 AM

I'm sure it is a difficult time for conservatives, Republicans, Tory/Labourites who support Bush/Blair in Mudcat, because the majority of posters here don't.

But even with emotions running high over the war mongering, I haven't seen flaming being any worse than usual here.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: TIA
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:43 AM

Sorry we're so passionate about the imminent death and dismemberment of thousands of human beings. What were we thinking? Oh, and if you think we've forgotten about the music, don't worry, I had a talk with my nephew about the music he would like at his memorial if things don't go well for him. Hate? Not a shred in me. Rage? You betcher ass.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:48 AM

I just counted, and out of the top 20 threads, 14 were music related. Fifteen if this one is included.

It varies from day to day, and often enough you get a bunch of non-music threads buzzing around at the top, but often enough there aren't many of those around. It depends what's happening out in the big world maybe.

But I don't think you'll ever find a day when a good majority of the total number of threads aren't music related.

It stands to reason that discussion threads, where people are exchanging views and reacting to each other, are going to be longer, and have a quicker turnaround of posts, which would keep them up at the top. A request for specific information normally gets a quick response, and the thread dies away.

I'd like more discussions and explorations about particular songs, and that kind of thing. But they can only happen when someone raises a question or an observation that catches attention - like one Jed did last year about Joe Turner.

But the non-music threads aren't a waste of time and space, they are a large part of what keeps this place alive. And more times than not music and song breaks into them anyway. Those are the kind of things songs get made up about - war and fights and trouble and dissension, and the oddities of human beings and the world we share.

I know people too often forget the difference between an argument and a quarrel, and that's a pity. But more often than not we back off from that, and make use of the opportunity we have here to explore differences we have, in the knowledge that what we have in common (the music and so forth) is more important than what we disagree with each other about (like how the world ought to be run).

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,vince
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:49 AM

I reckon the hate comes from the intolerance, double-standards and lack of peace and reconciliation there is in the world. As for music try Ian Campbell's 'The Old Man's Song' or 'Across The Hills' (not sure Ian wrote that one).

Pax Vobiscum

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:14 AM

Jed, there is still a small handful of good music threads and some folks are hanging in because of those. The problem is that the folks who want to be involved in that type of discussion have answers, not questions - those would come from newbies most likely. Most of the newbies seem to be attracted to the political debates.

Especially the huge number of "GUESTS." There's also the huge number of posts by one guest, and people tend to reply to her when she's being particularly nast as opposed to when she's not.

There is very little self control and no consensus on what 'self control' even means. You can post anything you want, you can respond to personal attacks, and no worries - if it's over the top, Joe will make it disappear.

I've posted "why can't people be nicer" messages before. The responses I've seen to me and others usually include things like:

"I don't see anything wrong" (and the implied: "...and I don't give a shit if you do."),
"There's plenty of music here" (and the implied: "and I don't give a shit if people were so bothered by the anger and/or volumes of BS they left because it's Not My Problem),
"It's Max's/Joe's fault for a) not making the site members only and/or b) deleting stuff that doesn't fit (and the implied: "according to me. Because I/we can't be expected to agree on any 'rules' about what belongs and what's civil"),
"Just read what you want to read" (and the implied: "because you should be able to predict which threads will turn nasty")
--Not including the standard "Use the BS filter, dumbass" because Jed wasn't focusing on BS but the "hate and rage."

There are also people who agree with you but don't think there's anything that can be done. I think there is - not to stop the angry stuff but to create more discussions about music. You can't make things go away, but you can make things appear. The bottom line, the ultimate truth is that you only control your own actions.

You might not have any questions, but a thread doesn't have to start with a question. Rick's started threads about guitar geek stuff. Maybe there's a music issue you feel strongly about or know a lot about? You can simply open a door and lets others come in. It does take a bit of work to think of a topic that will be interesting musically, but it beats sitting around wishing someone else will eventually post something you're interested in. (And no, it ain't easy or others would be doing it.)

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: nutty
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:23 AM

I think 'Across the hills' was written by Leon Rosselson

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:23 AM

A lot of it has come as a direct result of the fearmongering, since day one, of bush and his cabinet. When the leader of a country assaults the citizens with dire predictions, day after day, and when the supposed repercussions effect the whole world, people tend to get edgy, tense, depressed, downright scared, etc.; they are being *programmed* by him and the media, to be this way. In other words, pretty much what PeterT said.

I do weary of there being so many threads about it all, though.

kat

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:24 AM

Vince, is it OLD MAN'S SONG (DON QUIXOTE) by Bill Caddick and John Tams? It may be a different song, but this one has wonderful lyrics!

If they ask you did I travel light
With no provisions close beside me
Say my saddlebags were filled
With all the dreams I need to guide me

(Sorry - musical thread creep)

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,Vince
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:31 AM

Hi Jeri, yes that version sounds a reet good song. Never seen John Tams live - must try and remedy that. Err the old man's song i mean starts.....'At the turning of he century, i was a boy of five
            Me father went to fight the boars and never came back
            alive.......etc

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: JedMarum
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:41 AM

jes' bitchin!

I know there's still plenty of music discussion here - I take your point McGrath, Jeri, others. I just spend more time these days, digging through the old archived discussions and not bothering with the current list. And that's probably OK. Sometimes I resurrect an old discussion, if I have a new comment to add.

And I was not talking about the war discussions, in my original post. Of course people feel passionate about their points-of-view. I am more concerned about the lack of respect for the opinions of others that some of us display. It is not general, I recognize that many Mudcatters disagree with their friends with grace and dignity - but I see too many folks willing to make personal attacks. That sucks.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,mary v.
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 11:34 AM

Jed...I totally agree.
I'm new at this..and
I don't understand the anger..
but not for me to understand I suppose.
I love the music discussions.
But ...I too....go back to
old postings...thats also a fun
way to connect with others.
Thanks to all who really use
the discussion form for what I believe
it is intended to be used for.
from Mary V.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 11:43 AM

Gee, I had been thinking it has been relatively calm since about Christmas...
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:08 PM

The hate and rage has come from a switch being thrown on Sept 11, 2001. Since 1947 the CIA has been employing Nazi 'doctors' rescued from the German death-camps. Those doctors were specialists in mind-control and psychological manipulation, and they were employed to develop programs like the ones bearing fruit now.

First of all, a dissemination method had to be devised, so a TV was put in every home and bar, etc. Now, most of us get our cues from TV, and when we're told to be nervous, we get nervous. But it's all scripted. Al Qeada was created by the CIA, and when the CIA needs them again, they'll drag their asses out of the hot tubs in Sacramento or Dallas or Denver and go to work.

Just don't be fooled by the 'big lie'...if you're not with us you're with them. The Bushes are just front-men for the World Bank, and they ARE 'them'. Ashcroft just got caught lying about the existence of draft legislation which will be passed after he and his boss conduct another terrorist attack in America. And the new bill (Patriot Act 2) will deny American citizenship to any person who belongs to a group the Attorney General 'deems' to be terroristic in nature. That means any church, civic organization, political organization, etc.

So the Bush junta's days are numbered now. But DON'T let their replacements lull you into a false sense of victory. Democrats are the second head of the beast. All legislators who passed the first Patriot Act need to be dealt with, and when the new batch of legislators begin their service by attending 500 legal executions, maybe they will be a little more obedient to their oaths of office.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Tinker
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:12 PM

Joe, I think since Christmas there's been a calmer response to some of the obvious flame and troll guest(s). But, I think Kat and Peter have a really good point. The good natured, good friends at the top of our lungs type of disagreements are fewer are far between. The deserate need to make personal opinion not only understood, but believed has raised the intensity bar.

But, there are so many threads these days and all those archives... I got a free Calico CD in the mail yesterday from a promo Aidan posted, I'm heading to Maine next month to meet even more Mudcatters... the convivium is still here it's just a bigger universe to sort through.

Tinker

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:17 PM

As Joe has spoken, so shall I
A'speak to Jed's fine question why
'Cause music posters make this place
A site of most transcendent grace

But oh so much of 'folk' a hearkens
To struggles in a day that darkens
And though we get some dander up
'Tis inspiration on which we sup

I have, on several sad occasions
Personalised the threats of nations
Thus coming here has kept me sane
Where cooler kinder folks explain

Thank you all for being so good! ttr

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:31 PM

Guest, take your medication. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:43 PM

Awferchrissakes Marum, get a gawddman grip!! What kind of shit are you stirring with tripe like that? You got a problem, then you deal with it motherfucker and leave the rest of us alone. Go take that whiney crap somewhere else....wrap it up in a phlegm bag of self and shove it up your ass. Ain't nobody pissed here but you, you simple asshole!!! I don't see anything full of hate and rage here!!! Hell man, I feel good! Take a pill.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:48 PM

Bush # 1 re-located 3,500+ Iraqi Republican Guards to the U.S. after Desert Storm. Public record. Clinton brought some more before congress shut down the practice. These guys are going to be all over the news before long...as 'infiltrators'. Brought here by Bush / Clinton to do the job coming up, Peter. Yeah, stock up on your medications.

The Iraqis are going to be linked to 'right wing militia', by the way, in order to get liberals behind the 'war on terrorism'. Connie Chung already planted the seed in an interview on TV. That's probably why CFR spokesman Gary Hart mentioned Dallas and Denver when he was talking about smallpox. Dallas especially. Lots of right wingers there. They'll bust some Iraqi and John Bircher together and after Patriot Act 2 passes because you're all wetting yourselves, the John Birch Society will be fair game for any cop who wants to rack up a little overtime while getting in some target practice.

And then YOUR group will be next.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:03 PM

Dear guest:

In keeping with my most respected friend Jed's desire that hate and rage be less frequently displayed on the forum, I would like to invite yo to consider the possibility of placing your world view in a more secure and less vulnerable, less-exposed position. I am sure this will be of value and help to you as you continue to deal with the momentous --not to say overwhelming -- issues which make up your inner landscape. I am willing to provide detailed instructions should you require them; to begin with, I would be gratified to know that you have located and are in communication with a competent chiropractor who is skilled at rectifying contortion-provoked subluxations and remedying conditions such as 270-degree reverse scoliosis and cranial-GI displacement. Do let me know, my friend, and we can proceed to the rest of this program, which I am sure will bring great improvement and satisfaction to our relationship.

Sincerely yours,

Amos

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:06 PM

I agree with Jed, and that's why I spend less time here too. I watched the evolution of several people that I used to respect...

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:15 PM

Dozens of families of Sept 11 victims picketed the White House a year ago with placards that said 'Bush Did It'. Because you've taken no action to hold the criminals responsible for their actions, Amos, you will now die in a concentration camp. Most likely. Sorry if that interferes with folk music. Amuse your lonesome Nazi guards with the anal talk.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: gaber
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:17 PM

I don't know if it is hate, but more frustration. Everyone wants to live in a world with no worries, but that is just not the case. No one wants to avoid a conflict more than our friends and loved ones in the military. We should pray that cooler heads prevail and Iraq realizes that there will be no winner in this. The US will look like a bully and Saddam just looks crazy. I, However, don't see Saddam making any sort of compromise. So, if something does go down, all we can do is support our troops and pray they get back safe.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:18 PM

Oh, thanks, G....I always wondered what my future held. Now, thanks to you, I can proceed with clarity and certainty, knowing I am bound for a Nazi concentration camp. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm? :>) Play elsewhere, wouldja?


A

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:19 PM

Man o Friday. Is there any way to cut that guy/gal off? Maybe if some wunderbar tech-head could determine a way to filter out GUEST (anon, only) we could have some nice conversations.

It has been my experience lately that there will be a nice, even heated-yet polite, discussion going on and Anon. GUEST here will come along and start a fire. I am not interested in what they say as they have not the decency to sign their name to their posts. I just wanna throttle them (figuratively speaking, of course.) Now- give me a little leeway on the throttle remark as I am pregnant and full of "raging" hormones. I think that's from whence my rage comes.

:-)

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: MMario
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:26 PM

To the tune of "Feed the Birds" - with apologies to troll - who is not a "troll" in the internet sense.

Feed the trolls, tuppence a flame...
Tuppence, tuppence, tuppence a flame!
Feed the trolls, tuppence a flame!
Tuppence...
Tuppence...
tuppence a flame!

All around the whole forum
the guests and mudcatters
are at one another's throats...

And though you can't hear them...
you know someone's laughing
Because they thought it was a joke!

tho' the words
are blatent and crude
just respond;
they're trolling for you!

Feed the trolls, tuppence a flame...
Tuppence...
tuppence...
tuppence a flame!

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:29 PM

Amos

Would your chiropractor be able to fix a sore shoulder - I'm really suffering at the moment.

Allan

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:44 PM

Alan,

Sure -- but I hope it's not from the exercises I was recommending to wunderkind above.

Beccy: Congratulations to you!! My deepest respect for the rage of pregnant hormones in defense of the future! :>) Obviously, you're doing something right! (And I ain't gonna ask what! :>))

A

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:07 PM

In my view, the rage is primarily coming from the malignant commandering of Mudcat by our anti-social and sickeningly psychopathic GUEST. Moroever, no one with the power to do anything about this anti-social facist, who is trying to destroy our little community out of envy, will do anything about it. If no one will exclude this narcisistis psychopath, then why not shut the Mudcat down? He has effectively spoiled it for me!

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,Woodsie - cookies gone cant be bothered
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:16 PM

Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!


.....That's better

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: nutty
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:17 PM

You can never expect harmony when the subject is either politics or religion.

Try debating music.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:19 PM

Good on ya, there nutty. So right you are!

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:27 PM

Well, harpgirl, thnaks fir not pitching me in there with GUEST. I have been known to rant a tad.

But as to the basic question of "hate and rage". Maybe I just haven't been around the joint long enough to have an educated opion but I don't see much of it all. Yeah, I see a lot of folks who have passionate beliefs but considering the world situation, one shopuld expect this since these beliefs are the fabric of democracy.

Now as for "hate and rage" in general. The source for me are the extremists who highjacked democracy in the 2000 elections, are trying to gut the Bill of Rights and using threats of war as the centerpiece of America's foriegn policy. And it's not that I hate *them* as much as their idealogies.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:31 PM

Harpgirl. Please don't let the lonely words of a crying cyber fool shape your involvement with the 'cat... The tiny shred of truth GUEST provides is already common knowledge to most of us, and the rest is good for a laugh...

But you are something special, Harpgirl, and I want you around... Please don't be shy in reaction to a silly dude dancing around a public forum... I for one am glad and refreshed by the fact that such civility as we often find here can exist outside the galvanised fence of the country club... ttr

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:33 PM

I agree Bobert. Since the war propagandeering has picked up in the last few weeks, so have the number of the BS conversations about it here. I do believe it is in direct proportion to the media assault the US public is under from the Bush administration and their final drive to war.

But you must remember, for the people who support the war and/or Bush and/or both, some are interpreting our passion for peace as hate and rage.

There won't be any changing of their minds by me, that much is for certain. But you can keep working on 'em. I work my magic with/upon different folks in my own mysterious ways, just like you do.   Just different ways of filling in the blank above, is all.

Peace, bro. :)

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:36 PM

ah Bobert, you are not in the same league with GUEST when it comes to annoying...and you love birds!....so rant on...

Thomas, thank you for the kind words. I love your poems as usual. However, I have had my fill of the psychopathic GUEST. I don't understand why Joe or Max or a clone doesn't expose this person so I can loathe someone with a face, or at least a name!!!!!

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:37 PM

.. I would hardly call it magic, Mr. Psychopath!

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:42 PM

aLL THIS RAGE COMES FROM THE NEED FOR ANOTHER cd FROM THE GREAT SORCHA DORCHA! But that will be remidied soon! one is in the works...
Larry

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:43 PM

Let's just hope that the music and not the politics prevail when Jed comes to Takoma Park for the MiniFest--Several folks have indicated annoyance that FSGW is sponsoring someone with his political views at a time like this--

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:53 PM

Matriot, you just think that folks don't recognize your magic. The facts are that you are well known, and mostly ignored. In fact, your rants today got a rise, I will give you that, but already folks are just seeing who you are and the ignoring is about to begin.

Mick

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:54 PM

GUEST 2:43... You are cordially invited to spend the rest of all eternity in the hallowed halls of eternal damnation... or, in other words, gotohell.

ttr

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Ed.
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:03 PM

What a lovely thread...

This is Max's forum and he has chosen to let anything go, no membership, very limited censorship etc.

Unsuprisingly, the result is what it is, a bun fight.

It's something of a waste of energy to bluster about saying how we think it should be. Max wants it this way.

Like Mary in Kentucky, I just don't bother coming here so much. I've found nicer places.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Ed.
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:17 PM

Sorry, just to clarify, I meant 'no compulsory membership'

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:53 PM

I agree Jed,

I think it's just an influx of new posters who are here expressly for the politics, not the music, and they seem to be the kind of poster that now populates most internet forums. Sure the complex, volatile times have much to do with it. As PeterT said, when feeling impotent, people look for some outlet to express themselves through which they feel like they are being heard/feel like they matter (Hopefully I'm not mischaracterizing what he said).

But I have been wondering for some time now about the relative shrinking of the pool of participators here and on other forums (I will NOT say fora. What? as opposed to "Flauna"?). When I first found the mudcat I hardly ever noticed a crossover between posters here and at other music-related forums. Now I am getting the distinct impression that there are only about eleventy-four total participants on all the forums combined. When you add to that the repetitive nature of the nature of the posts, there's not tons of new blood infusing new thought into the mix.

As to incivility increasing here....
.....I think that earlier on there was a certain amount of mystery as to whether we would ever meet up and, in the flesh, share meals and a tune or two. With the hope for such a meeting being at least in the background of our intercourse, we were more civil (hell, I didn't want to piss off Big Mick --for example-- and find out that he really was BIG when I met him face to face :^)... now I don't give a damn -- I've met him and I'm betting I can out run 'im!).

There was also a certain amount of respect given to the unknown musicianship (something I think most of us respect here) -- much as I've heard many guitarist comment when they play out -- "I'm not nearly so cocky as I used to be since I figured out that, on any given night, there's a 16 year old kid in the audience who can play me under the table!".

Now, with those whom we are quite sure are accomplished musically, we are more civil. We guard our bitchery. But I think there is a growing sense here that there are (on a percetage of participation basis) quite a few less serious musicians here......or, if they are serious, they are not accomplished.

Thus, at least one more of the governors on our incivility has been removed.

Said more simply: If, before we hit the "submit" button we thought we were going to meet in person the person to whom we address our post the very next day...

OR we thought, before we hit the "submit" button, that the person to whom we are addressing our post was Jean Ritchie or Art Thieme (some REAL possibilities) or James Taylor, Paul Simon, Tim O'Brien, Rani Arbo, Alison Krauss (fill in the blank with a musician you admire)...

My guess is that you'd see a brand new civility around here.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:00 PM

We're gonna miss ya Ed... Happy trails! Y'all come back now, Ya'heah! ttr

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: DougR
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:29 PM

Amos: not to worry! We will send you care packages on a regular basis. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: gaber
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:32 PM

Damn, Would you people talk about something a little more cheery? We are bombarded everyday with talk of war. Either there will or will not be a war and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it. It is the State of the world today. So here is an idea, whatever happens just deal with it.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:44 PM

Geez...so many of you miss the point.

Before the war for Independence in the U.S., the 'colonists' couldn't speak their minds openly and had to set up secret Committees of Correspondence to print / hand-write pamphlets etc. to spread word of what was happening in the fight against the occupying power.

And that's all the modern forums are. Committees of Correspondence. A global government is pulling the strings of most of the national governments, and in the U.S. the course is leading to the destruction of the Constitution, the sacrifice of lots of draftable kids, etc. I'm only doing my bit to point this out. And I do it with gusto. My personal hate and rage comes from seeing the obvious destruction of my country by super-national corporations.

And this kind of forced debate about politics is going on on ALL forums...or should be. The U.S. is about to end. Period. Unless YOU do something about it.

The designers of this forum set up a 'BS' line. Why do you folks bother reading the posts on it if it upsets you so?

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:54 PM

Gotta agree with you GUEST. No one is holding a gun at anyone's head to step into ant one of these threads.

It kind of like a person going to an adult movie theater and then complaining about dirty movies.

Geeze.

But I'm starting to get all those "cautions" they print in manuels for elecrical appliances. You know like, "Caution: this radio is not made for human cunsumption. Should you eat this product induce vomiting and call a physican".

Awww, jus' funnin', you knotheads that can't keep from peeking thru
the keyholes.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 05:14 PM

Guest, you should (perhaps you already have) read Aaran Gare's Postmodernism and the Environmental Crisis. Pretty scary stuff.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:29 PM

Thanks, Sage. I'll look into it. I did a search to see if the book was online, complete, but it doesn't look like it is. And I hate to enrich people who are against me by buying their books. Just curious...what's it about? Surely I have a lot to learn, but why would this book be of special interest?

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:48 PM

OK...I'll start using the 'From' line when posting. I was going to use a name indicating paranoia once, but I'm NOT paranoid. I embrace the fight if it comes and don't really care a lot about personal safety. Wouldn't one have to consider those things pretty seriously in order to be a full-fledged paranoid?

But something I DO admit to is that I've alienated a BUNCH of you here, so henceforth I'll try to remember to post as 'The Hated Guest'. You folks DO have a point about fair warning and all that, so just skip my stuff if you don't want to read how GW's grandfather had to be stopped by Congress under THREAT OF ARREST from doing business with Hitler, and the Bushes today are in business with the bin Ladens. GW had his human shield of school kids on Sept 11, and now he's going to take care of all of you. Fine. Remind the firing squad of that.

Really...this stuff is true, so I can't understand why I've engendered such hostility here, unless you folks have just too much of your lives invested in the false Chamber-of-Commerce paradigm. It was hard for me to let go of that view of America, though, so I understand.

Yours sincerely,

The Hated Guest

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:46 PM

Well one place the hate comes from can be a low self esteem. Bluff and bluster front those people. Then comes the dengration of the other person as the only way these people can make themselves feel a little better by comparison. Once you are alerted to the problem you see it fits in a percentage of the cases. And yes it is a hot topic for me right now but sadly it may never leave the "ragist" . At least it allows one a certain gravitas, which they unfortunately take as condescention and thus acknowlegement - IQ is no hinderence to their malaise.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:24 PM

Well, danged. Stop the presses! Get Ripley on the line! The dreaded GUEST has taken up a handle. Say it ain't so....

Well, Hated Guest, welcome to the Catbox. As all new memebrs I'd like to give you the usual precautions about being up on your shots and all, but you know that allready.

Well, shucks, ahhh... Mind if I just refer to you as HG, for Hated Guest? I mean, it seem purdy civilized.

Click (the sound of Bobert's heels as he jumps into the air and clicks his heals in exuberance to have GUEST become, ahhhhh, half a member? No. A member with half a name? No.)

Well, danged if I know. But this is progress...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:07 PM

Guest, here is the blurb (the link I posted earlier seemed to have reverted back to another screen--must have been in a frame)

Postmodernism and the Environmental Conflict analyses the conjuction between the environmental crisis, the globalization of capitalism and the disintegration of the culture of modernity. Arran explains the paradox of growing concern for the environment and the paltry achievements of environmental movements. Through a critical analysis of philosophical approaches to the environmental crisis, a new orientation is presented which is designed to provide the necessary world-orientation in order for the environmental movement to succeed.

Different approaches to the environmental crisis are considered and contrasted to show that mainstream approaches which are based on economic theory, Marxist approaches and postmodern approaches utilizing insights from the poststructuralists are ultimately all defective. Arran argues that what is required is a new postmodern world-view, a new conception of the cosmos and a new understanding of the place of humanity within the cosmos. Postmodernism and Environmental Conflict draws on recent developments in natural philosophy, theoretical physics, biology and philosophical anthroplolgy to formulate this new world-view. This book is of value to those involved or interested in the environment or political philosophy.

This book examines how what they call "the globalization of capitalism" is working in a world with super rich people and super rich corporations. Whether you buy into postmodern theory or not, this is an excellent analysis of things as they have evolved in the world marketplace today. With the super rich corporations treating everyone else like so many cockroaches. The hook is the enviromental situation, which obviously affects everybody. But it seems that some really do live for today, regardless of how the world is treated or how many people die as a result of industrial abuse and neglect. It's pretty scary stuff.

Since you're not a member (yet?) you can't PM me, but I brought this book up online (it's in WebCat) at the university. It lists libraries that have it--your library can get it via Interlibrary Loan. I also found it through abebooks.com for $12 at a Montreal book store.

This book won't lessen your rage about what is happening in the world today.

SRS

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:43 PM

Yeah, Bobert...folks have the right to their forum. I think I've beaten everyone here over the head with the TRUTH enough. And the handle seems appropriate, since I seem to have picked up a slight whiff of hostility from time to time. Or was that just my imagingation?

And thanks, Sage. I'll pursue that as time permits. And yeah, I wouldn't want to lessen that rage. Seriously. What makes me most angry, too, is the LACK of rage in others.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:44 PM

Forgot to sign it. Old habits...

Sure...use the initials, Bobert.

HG

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 12:54 AM

Peter T hit it exactly on the head: Probably when people feel helpless, they use any outlet they can find to express themselves. This is an important historic moment, so I for one am content to see what people say.

I know I've said too much this week--and owe Daylia an apology for hammering the point home.

This has been a horrible week, all things considered, starting out by policing the yard for shuttle parts and then watching Bush ratchet up the rhetoric and the color code warnings. I am headed out of town for a couple of days (aren't we all glad!) and feel nothing but contempt for the situation as I find it: I'll try to park in remote parking so I don't have to clean all of the shit out of my pickup truck just to drive into the airport. They're doing visual searches of each vehicle that enters now. As it is I offloaded the boxes of recyling stuff (haven't been by the bins at school to drop it off yet) and the toner cartridge that might look suspicious (MailBoxes, Etc. sends it back to HP for free if I remember to take it in) because these bulky items could cause some concern for whoever has been hired in the lowest-paid federal positions on record to search vehicles.

The man I voted for won the election with the popular vote, but isn't there taking care of things without bringing us to the brink of war. That man, by the way, is equipped to handle all of this. He served in the regular miltary, and didn't go AWOL for a long time then get off the hook because of family connections. He was smart, went to good schools, got good grades (had the excellent good sense to have Tommy Lee Jones as his roommate! but I digress). . .

Time to pack up and leave this alone for a while. Good thread. Lots of rage to discharge somewhere.

SRS

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 12:55 AM

make that horrible week and a half--I can still do math. . .

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 01:06 AM

Hate and depression are both offspring of un released or un expresseable anger..........and I try really hard not to post to the political threads..........

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 01:30 AM

I agree with you Jed about this place being full of rage. It was not long ago I thought the same thing and hoped to come here and see a song challange or write a poem using 100 words or just something a bit lighter then politics, fear and talk of war.
I find myself staying away from most of those threads now because people seem so sure we are going to war, and I don't care to put the thought of it in my head on a continuous basis. I am a believer that thought process creates reality and I don't want war to be my reality.
It does seem like it's been awhile since there was a song challange out there. When I first came here I thought, " Wow! This is one amazing, talented, and inspiring group of people!" And it still is, but just laying low for now is seems.
I still love it here and all of you!
Peace.Rustic

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:35 AM

I understand the anger:


Bush is the only one with the guts to kill the Islamo fascists. Are you on the side of burkas and female mutillation or the president?

The next thing you're going to tell me is that the Bin Laden video bragging about 9-11 that was found in the ashes of Afghanistan by US troops was created by the CIA.

Defending Saddam is like defending Fidel, Stalin, Che Guevarra like all the pathological left wing liberals have done for generations. Attacking America for generations is a left wing mental abberation.

Look people - we are being attacked.

War has been declared by Ossama bin Laden. That is all the evidence you need.
You are being attacked ! The suicide bombers do not make a distinction between conservatives or liberals. That means you the athiest, you the homo sexual, you the liberal, you the buddist, you the parent, you the Jew, you the communist, you the anarchist, you the street bums, you the drug addicted left. The Islamo fascists don't care who you are other than you are a supposed American and that you die.

Wake up you fools.

It is terrifying what is coming. The world is at war and I welcome it - Not because I like war but because George Bush is the only one with the guts to use nuclear weapons to wipe them off the face of the Earth. We are in a battle for the survival of America.

You are either with us or you are with OBL.

Next thing you'll say is that Iraq is not Al Quida. Look I speak for all of America and strike a chord that people know is true, but have been too afraid to admit.

The radical left wing media like CNN is steering you in the direction of treason and sedition. There is an entire machinery behind the peace mongers. They take marching orders from emails and fax from the DNC and ACLU.

If you believe the drug and peace addicted hollywood idiots you are both a fool and suicidal.

God loves Christians and Jews more than he loves the Islamo fascists.

You will either support our good Christian president or you support the mutillation of womens sex organs by mullahs with a piece of glass, you support the bombing of our churches, you support the bombing of our synagoges, you support the bombing of our schools.

We are in a war within our shores between the rats and eagles. The eagles are those like Ronald Reagan. The rats are those like Sigmund Freud who said America is a mistake.


I have a best selling book and will have a mass reading of it in public across this nation in March. All it takes is a few hundred thousand people to change the face of this country. Were going to stir things up. We are going to save America in spite of the sick and mentally diseased leftwing rats and the Islamo fascists. We still have a second ammendment despite the Schumers and Boxers and Feinstiens. we are having an effect.

I am sick of seeing only Arabs shoot thier Kalazikovs in the air.
I dream of millions of loyal NRA men and women in our streets raising thier guns, shooting and screaming "We are not afraid of you"

I have a dream, I do not know whether I will see that dream but I hope it comes true.

Michael Savage - today on the Clear Channel radio monololy.

"Fascism should be called corporatism, the merger of corp. and state." Mussolini

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: *daylia*
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 10:17 AM

Rustic

Some may call what you have said deluded and naive
That matters not a whit if you can live what you believe
May the peace that you create within your heart and soul
Shine forth in beams of loving light to heal, bless and console

SRS

Thank you for the 'olive branch' - *sniff sniff* - here's one for you
We all are only human - do the best that we can do
I've learned so much on Mudcat, and often from your words
And now I can enjoy them without angry hurts absurd! :-)

At the risk of hijacking this important discussion re the Mudcat forum itself, I'd like to invite everyone to take a 'breather' and browse through these beautiful "Images of Sanity and Compassion in Tibetan Buddhism.

I'd especially like to recommend this
interactive Wheel of Life. Notice at the hub of the Wheel there are "Three Unwholesome Roots" - because from them grow all life's evils. They are also known as the "Three Poisons", because they corrupt from within.

And they are ...(drum roll) ... Greed, Hatred and Ignorance. Represented by a cock, a snake and a pig, respectively.

I find their placement at the very hub of the Wheel of Life most intriguing, as if the experience of life is truly dependant on these somehow. That would certainly explain why hatred and war continue to be 'center stage' throughout human history! And perhaps this shines some light on "Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?"

Just some whimsical peaceful wonderings

Grateful blessings to all

daylia

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Sam L
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 10:32 AM

I left a nicer place to come here, where it's more fun. Songs come from all sorts of places, and those places are interesting too. I like a heated discussion of BS, enjoy hearing what people think. Don't hate anyone on account of it, and have to admit I find some of the trolling kind of funny, not good, or intentionally funny, but one of them made me laugh til I couldn't sit in a chair. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:03 AM

Fred, some of them are funny.

I've developed a detached attitude about the place. I don't share the sort of stuff I shared a couple of years ago. There are people I might have looked forward to meeting that I just don't want to know now. We used to be on our best behavior here - now we seem to be nurturing our worst sides. (See above for examples.) We used to try not to reply to trolls - remember that pledge thingie? Now, there are more posts responding to trolls than to any other threads.

I wonder how much worse Mudcat will (or can) get before it gets better. I think this place may either burn itself out or people may start to feel some sense of responsibility about what topics they respond to...in a pig's eye.

Cynical me...

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: TIA
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:23 AM

Bravo Donuel!

That is EXACTLY where the hate and rage come from. I remember a time when it was possible for honest people of conscience to disagree on issues. That ended somewhere in the 80's with the rise of the OUTRAGE commentators that led to today's nonstop claque of hate and rage led by Limbaugh, Savage, O'Reilly, Hannity, Reagan..... Now you cannot disagree with the right wing without being branded stupid, naive, evil, treasonous, mush-headed, supporters of Saddam, Osama, Jeffrey Dahmer and all other manifestations of the devil. Reasoned consideration of issues is dead. Loyal opposition is dead. Shades of meaning, nuance, subtlety, consideration of options are all dead. Liberal is not a world view, it's a dirty word, a vile epithet. Something bad happens (like a hurricane or a murderous attack on NYC)? Of course it's the fault of the gays and the women's rights advocates (oh, wait that's feminazi's). Do you think it's silly to distribute gas masks to the Park Rangers in Yellowstone? You must be an environmentalist whacko, a self-loathing puppet of socialism intent upon destroying the American way of life. Going to a peace vigil on saturday? You are the unwitting and witless tool of Iraqui provocateurs -- or worse...you're siding with the French!

Am I making any of this up? Nope, I'm not nearly that clever. Want to silence the hate and rage? This forum is the absolute last place to be concerned about.

Here's (IMO) why there's been so much distress here of late... What else can we do, and where else are we going to do it? Here's a tiny little corner of the world with some politically-like-minded people, and some politically-non-like-minded people (who CAN actually discuss an issue without calling each other evil), and at the end of the discussion, we're all alike in our love of music, so no major harm done (minor occasional apologies sometimes necessary). If only the whole world had the same level of hate and rage as Mcat, it would be a darn civil place.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:31 AM

Excuse my cynicism this morning has anyone wondered if the upcoming demonstrations have anything to do with the "Orange" Alert. Sure seem like a coincidence. And then the duct tape and plastic scare on the alert's heels. Hmmmmmm?

Well, I don't trust the Bush administration and I t5hink they are shrewd enough to manipulate events and information any way the want to to scare folks from attending the demonstrations.

Proof? Ain't got any more than *they* have provided the world that Iraq is a threat to the US's national security, or anyone else for that matter.

Ol' hillbilly smells something fishy here.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: *daylia*
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:34 AM

"Here's a tiny little corner of the world with some politically-like-minded people, and some politically-non-like-minded people (who CAN actually discuss an issue without calling each other evil), and at the end of the discussion, we're all alike in our love of music, so no major harm done (minor occasional apologies sometimes necessary). If only the whole world had the same level of hate and rage as Mcat, it would be a darn civil place."

Hear hear, TIA! :-) And may it continue to be so here among the Cats, and all of the GUESTS too.

daylia

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:48 AM

Having been the recipient of some of the hate and rage lately, may I offer a suggestion?

Apparently you folks had an agreement at one time to not respond to 'trolls'. Sounds like a plan. Just don't respond. I started a thread a while back called 'Northwoods Operation' or something like that, and I pretty much talked to myself on it. Updated it twice a day to make sure it stayed prioritized up high on your screens. No one's imput was needed on that but mine. But I felt it was important for you folks to know our Joint Chiefs proposed hijackings, blowing up space missions and snipers in D.C. FORTY-ONE YEARS ago...and four decades later we're seeing the Northwoods Plan activated.

So was I wrong for posting that here and keeping it prioritized upwards for a few days? I did it on other forums, so why not here?

Forums really are the 'Committees of Correspondence' in these modern times. You may not have liked the things I've posted, but if you followed the stuff, you probably learned some things you didn't know before...just like I've learned from you. Like the rant above marked 'Savage'. I can't listen to Clear Channel...turns my stomach. But did he really say that? Is that the kind of drum-beating going on on the govt's radio arms nowadays? Wouldn't surprise me. He was the first, from what I read, to say that anyone opposing the war with Iraq should be put in a concentration camp.

There is a war going on right now to save America. And though it may not be a 'traditional' war, it is a war nonetheless. A war of words and ideas. Look at the thread 'PATRIOT Act 2' and you will know who the enemy is.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: TIA
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 12:08 PM

Hated Guest - What's your favorite tune? Do you play? or sing?

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Frankham
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 12:18 PM

You know, I'm glad that there is a public forum such as Mudcat for people to speak their mind. I agree with Spaw that you can't change anyone's mind (only they can do that). But I think that it's OK for people to vent on musical or non-musical subjects but it's better to present clearly articulated ideas in a rational manner.

As for music or non-musical threads, I don't know how a person can really separate the two. You can decided to edit a lot but I think you lose a lot in the process. My musical interests are closely aligned to my values and beliefs and this is what keeps me in the game. I think this may be true for many musical folks.

I like the rough and tumble Mudcat...like rolling around in it occasionally and if the thread gets too nutty, Max or someone usually has the good sense to bring it to an end...particularly if it gets repetitive and boring.

Long live Mudcat and the free-for-alls! It's part of the folk process.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: DougR
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 02:17 PM

Donuel: Is that REALLY you? :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 02:40 PM

here Jeb... to make this a music thread...


Words Lorcan Otway Tune, for now, Mandella by Hannon?

Walking with King

I walked with King in Selma, so I'm getting on in years
But I still recall the hopes we had in spite of all our fears
I still can hear the barking dogs and often in the night
I recall how we gently walked when justified to fight

We walked for voting rights and so that others would be free
While some were kept from basic rights, who could live peacably
We faced the southern sheriffs and the banal Ku Klux Klan
to carry the light of human right to each corner of the land

Then the Viet Nam war began and we were walking as before
While tens of thousand lives were lost we'd walk to end a war
And many vets walked with us and were welcomed home again
while the government who sent them off ignored their cries of pain

And now the government is marching us off again to war
and people they are gathering to walk just as before
but Bloomberg and Judge Barbara Jones conspired in this night
To stop Americans walking and destroy this sacred right

General Nathan Bedford Forrest gave the world the Ku Klux Klan
Sheriff Clark and Governor Maddox would keep slave chains in this land
And now to this list of shame two more names must appear
Mayor Bloomberg and Judge Jones who've sold their nation out to fear

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 02:40 PM

HG:

Ya know, when you sit down and start communicating for real instead of just throwing out alarming generalizations, you're not such a bad person after all! Maybe there's somethign to be learned by all sides from that. People need particulars to think about, not generalizations; and people communicate with an identity, so having none makes it real hard to get any commuhnication back. That's just how this machinery works!


A

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 03:10 PM

I'm with you, Frank!

I do like a lively discussion and if ya' had ever seen of heard me play music you'd find that my music style is similar to my dicussion style. The reason I don't spend too much time on music threads is that, other that Tweed, there aren't too many roudy scoustic blues players to keep any threads alive. I started many of them but the fizzle quickly...

And Yeah, Amos, it's nice to have HG in the fold. Or half in the fold. Whatever. And I've enjoyed HG's contribution for a long time and though HG and I have had some differences, HG has brought a lot to the forum.

Yo, HG. What TIA asked? If that's not asking too much here.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM

HG, I agree with Amos. You do have thought-provoking things to say when you calm down and think of actual communication. Climbing the walls and throwing things doesn't do it for me.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 03:37 PM

I'm on Frank's team on this one. Way back when the naysayers started threatening to leave if we didn't talk music exclusively, my response was, "We will miss you, ....goodbye". I haven't changed on that. Joe and I use to quibble about whether it is a music forum or not. My view is that it is not. It is a forum that is peopled by musicians mostly, where we talk about the music, the history, the issues that have and will spawn music, techniques for writing it, making it, reproducing the sound of it live and on media...............in short all of the things (including the inspirations for it) that go into "music". The BS discussions are a major part of that. Either in the main or in the abstract, the voices will spawn music and inspire performance. And the old rule still applies...................if you don't like it, don't open it. If you respond, you are part of the fray and open for all that implies.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 06:44 PM

Ebbie...I've had a hundred death threats in the past year. Republicans are being worked into a lather by their handlers, so when I go into a forum and point out that their 'conservative' leader just Clintonized the national school system, they threaten to kill me. They don't hear the message...that GWBush has tied federal funding of public schools to national testing designed to dumb down kids...they just hear criticism of 'their guy' and threaten to kill. I encourage them to do it because it's the only way they'll shut me up, then I go back again the next day. Your statement above makes me think of school counselors who used to say 'it's not what you said but the way you said it'. We are TAUGHT to focus on HOW things are said...but then we're supposed to grow out of it.

It wouldn't matter if I typed (LOUD FART) every other sentence, the impact of the message shouldn't be lessened by that. That's why America is in the state it's in...too many people listen to the WAY things are said and now WHAT'S being said. Go back and look at some of the things I've said...would they be any less 'thought-provoking' if I flattered you (LOUD FART) and told you how beautiful and brilliant and blah blah blah? No. Men with weapons are STILL coming to kill you, and the men are controlled by your so-called government. This is the end of the U.S. Constitution, and by extension, the end of all hope placed in democracies by people around the world. When the big domino falls, the others fall, too.

And let's see...I play guitar...but not much nowadays. I don't have much to contribute to the musical discussion around here unless someone has comments on the 'Road to Perdition' soundtrack. I haven't seen the movie, but I've been listening to the soundtrack CD. Lots of celtic influences in the orchestral music, so maybe someone has some knowledge on that. Some beautiful music.

Oh, I have contributed to some of the blues threads. Texas is crawling with good blues guitarists and I've been fortunate enough to hear a bunch of them. A good one right now in Austin is a guy named Steve James. Several CDs out, I think. Kind of rough...bottleneck. I hear a lot of Fred McDowell in him...others, too.

I sometimes put on the Sex Pistols when I'm debating with the neo-conservatives, if that helps any.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 06:53 PM

Yeah...that's the problem...I just forget to switch the music when I come over here. Those are reverberations of the Sex Pistols screaming at you.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:37 PM

HG:

That's funny!! A genuine musical joke!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:59 PM

Steve James? Hmmmm? I'll check him out, HG. I like roudy bottle neck player since that's purdy much what I am. Somethin' about just gettin' that slide rolling anf tumblin' all over the fret board. 7 to 12 then 3..., lay in a 2 to 3 and slam back to 12 and the a quiet 5... take that thumb under the fat E and pull it out like a bad tooth and turn the hand. Not exactly Fred McDowell, but not far from it.

BTW, Fred McDowell is my No. 1 bluesman. Son House on his heels...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 10:12 PM

Someone mentioned Bukka White on a thread. He did a song called Aberdeen Mississippi Blues...really nice. He was a good bottleneck player. I learned guitar playing blues then drifted off into writing my own things. Now when I pick up a guitar, within ten seconds I'm playing something I've never heard before. And within 5 minutes structuring a song. Strange how many different approaches to music there are. There was a thread where we talked about Johnny Winter. You might check out his first album. He played excellent national steel guitar. Incredible electric guitar. Progressive Blues Experiment...the album.

Yeah...Steve James. Amazon or one of those might have sound clips. He plays locally with a group that uses a tuba for it's bass line half the time, so no telling what he's recorded with the group. But I've heard him on local KUT solo...amazing guitar work. Hold on...

KUT Live Set

There's a link to KUT 'Live Set'. If you have real audio, speakers and a decent link, you can listen to these studio sets. I haven't looked at this link in a long time, but there's a performance by Steve James. Streaming Audio. Have no idea what it's like, so I hate ro recommend, but you might check it out.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 10:25 PM

Thanks fir the link, HG, but I'm at my beat up home pudder and it's sound card--whatever that is-- is shot and it don't play right but I'll check it out tomorrow. Sounds like you might be in the Austin area. Have you heard James McMurtrey? He's a local boy. Grew up 15 miles from here. His dad, Larry, wrote "Lomesome Dove". Well, James ahs a unique sound so it ya' ver get a chance to hear him... do it.

Bobert

ps. Not too sure what this has to do with hate and rage but....

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:39 PM

"Here's a tiny little corner of the world with some politically-like-minded people, and some politically-non-like-minded people (who CAN actually discuss an issue without calling each other evil), and at the end of the discussion, we're all alike in our love of music, so no major harm done (minor occasional apologies sometimes necessary). If only the whole world had the same level of hate and rage as Mcat, it would be a darn civil place."

It's here, and it's called Shepherdstown, WV. Almost all of my friends are musicians or singers, and many oppose the conflict with Iraq. Yet others are or were in the military and vigorously support the oncoming action. When young Patrick Roy was killed on the Cole the whole town buried him in the last grave open on the Antietim battlefield. Yet on Mayday the exmilitary and the former hippies will play in the Morris Band as we march through town to the Maypole, with the military guys laughing at the hippies attempts to keep in step while the hippies laugh at the attempts of the military guys to put flowers in their short hair. And we'll play and sing till dawn... And when the active duty guys come back, few will ask where they've been or anything but, "Learn any new tunes?". We have a saying in town that, "Everyone knows their own to talk to".

And yet I have been as vociferous as the next person. I'm an old dog who has seen a lot, been to most places in the world, have been shot at and have killed on more than a few occasions, have played a banjo since 62, had probably the only autoharp in Vietnam, have sung a finale with Tom Paxton, and as a manager at a Job Corps Center, I work with inner city youth whose dads I probably locked up in 18 years of Police work. I do not brook fools easily.

And yet I recall an individual named MAV who, though conservative, was nowhere near as abusive as the so called gentler leftist individuals would style themselves. He was abused even in a birthday thread. And I said to myself, those those who speak in peace and wisdom I would grant grace to the same. To those whose style, ignorance, or bluster make me come off my porch, when I climb back up those stairs, I going to have their dick in my pocket...

Please understand, I am having the time of my life right now, with good music and friends almost every night. Yet the pictures of those poor souls who had to jump from the Trade Towers, holding hands, carrying babies, and the one holding out clenched fists, must be avenged in blood.

There are people who don't understand the way the real world works. For example, North Korea is a myth; no-one is doing anything in that country without the permission of Red China. A little negotiation, some money for the starving, back to status quo ante. Thats why only the ignorant are worried. And posts become pungent in their exchanges.

But as for me, consider me a verbal buccaneer, willing to swing along side to board you for your treasure, and to fight the length of your decks, ... or to swill a keg till dawn.

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: TIA
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 03:06 PM

Sorry, I can't resist...

Is that a dick in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Subject: RE: Where'd All the Hate and Rage Come From?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 03:19 PM

Go and see Bowling for Columbine - that's what it's about: where did all the hate and rage come from. It's a brilliant, insightful film.