BS: Whine Fest

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 08:43 AM

Organizing some resources heading your way.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 12:02 PM

dedicate this grief to being a better parent for the future. Sounds to me like she's already been an incredible parent and does not need this kind of backhanded criticism.

Susan, imo, not everyone grieves the same way, nor needs to.

Michelle, PM coming your way, but I would like to URGE you to get to your doc and get the blood sugar under control. That is dangerously high. If you do not take care of yourself now, who will be there for Veronica is she comes back...or for Pete or any other children who may come into your life?

{{{{{{{{{Michelle}}}}}}}}}

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 12:43 PM

Sounds to me like she's already been an incredible parent and does not need this kind of backhanded criticism.

Kat, in my great concern for Michelle, I forgot that people might not know that we know each other in real life, and I posted what I am sure she understood, and it was not criticism. Obviously you took my comment differently than I meant it, and then didn't read the rest of my posts strongly affirming her.

A thread in support of one person doesn't need to become an argument among those willing to help. It's not a competition for who is the best helper. Michelle is perfectly able to choose what help she wants to use, as are we all. She does not need to be saved from whatever skewed view you have of me. She makes her own choices just fine.


Michelle, in fact I admire the way you've handled this. I think you are completely capable of dealing with all of it-- the feelings, the practical issues, your health, all of it. I think you ARE handling it. I'm just sorry it's so hard. But you ARE handling it, and with great strength.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 12:51 PM

Michelle, you have done a wonderful thing for a little girl. Be proud of that, and don't lose hope.

In the meantime... ditto everything about the glucose. If your sugar gets dangerously high, you'll be in a world of trouble. Take care of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 02:39 PM

Update:

I went to the Dr. this morning. He changed my insulin, gave me sleeping pills and something to settle the panic I am feeling. Sooo..I will be a well rested zombie with (hopefully) more stable sugar levels. I am not fond of all the medications but it will work for now. The Dr. kept asking me if I felt any rage or extreme anger or frequent irritation...I don't feel any rage about anything....I am just SO tired.

My husband took the day off to go to the Dr. with me, then he took me out for lunch to one of my favorite spots (I think he's really just wanting me to eat something...which I did...not much...but more than yesterday). After lunch, I went to a noon service at my church. I think I heard half of what was said...but that's a start too. The timing of things is quite amazing...some of the things said in church were hitting me directly in the face.

There was a woman who walked out of the church with me...someone I didn't know...who asked me if I had children. I told her no (okay..that smarted) and then she went on to tell me that she had 4 children and as soon as she figured out why she kept having them, she quit. She said I was smart. I wanted to tell her that she was incredibly lucky. *sigh*

Now I'm home and I'm going to do SOMETHING productive...I don't know what it is yet but I am going to do SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate all the posts and PMs very much. I reread several of them over and over last night around 2:30am while I was banging around the house, unable to sleep.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 04:01 PM

I just sat down and wrote out Veronica's card....signed it with lots of love from Pete and I, all the animals (9 dogs, 6 cats and Henrietta the Hen) and silly drawings. I went in search of her NY zip code, got out my address book and opened it up to a hand drawn note (from Veronica) of bubble letters that reads: I LOVE YOU.

Why doesn't someone just rip my heart out of my body, throw it on the floor and dance on it?

:(   :(   :(

I give up and am calling it a day.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 04:02 PM

Rest well, read PM about sleep vs. insulin, OK?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 06:47 PM

Sleep meds,,,took em an hour agoi. hinking teya re startubg ti wirk, Niteee all you wonderful peop;le.nn
Sweet Dreans
Michelleee

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 06:50 PM

Someone keeping an eye on you so you don't bottom out on the insulin?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 06:54 PM

Writing the card was something productive, Michelle. Congratulations. It is hard for you to see now but you are taking steps towards dealing with your pain. A few bites at lunch - sounds familiar. And that first night of sleeping via pills - heaven. Once you re-establish a sleep pattern, you probably won't need them very often.

No rage? You did rip up two photos of Veronica's mother. Rage (anger) is good and healthy. Just make sure you focus it out and not at yourself. "Guilt is anger turned inward" - my mantra through five years of therapy. Also make sure that you aim it at the person who deserves it not at a the easiest or most convenient target - poor Pete. He sounds like a saint.

I have a book I used to help me identify and develop some coping skills when my son's addiction became a real issue. The author is a smug "Boy am I good" type but gives some very simple and concrete guidelines for working through a loss. The "Feeling Good Handbook" is more than likely at your library.

If it doesn't appeal to you, simply make a copy of the list re: Ten Most Common Misperceptions. Years later I still use that list when trying to find get a handle on a problem.

Re: the woman with four children. She wouldn't have parted with the worst of the bunch had you offered to take one. Ironic that she crossed your path. It must feel as if Fate is smacking you in the face at every turn.

The ultimate truth is that you are the only real parent that Veronica has ever had. The other reality is that she may very well come back into your life and when she does you will have to be at your top performance both to deal with a child who has almost no stability and the legal issues you will face to keep her next time. Keep taking care of yourself one day at a time.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 07:06 PM

RE: Someone keeping an eye on you so you don't bottom out on the insulin?

I got message all is well on that front.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:30 AM

Did you sleep well, lady? Ready for some oatmeal or sausage and eggs? Maybe just tea and toast? Give Pete a hug and mail the letter.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 12:29 PM

I slept ALL night. Started new insulin today and am feeling sick. I think I shall skip class and go back to bed.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 01:13 PM

Is the insulin a tad high at the moment? Does that level itself out, or might you need to sip some juice?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:21 PM

Michelle, after your rest, I hope that this day brings you a small ray of hope, even if it is just the scent of a fall rose blooming or the snuggling love of one of your cats, dogs, or hen (she sounds so cute!) These are all messages of love and support and meant to help your heart to not hurt so much, as are our messages and thoughts which we send to you.

When and if you can find the strength within you, it might be helpful to make a scrapbook of Veronica and yourselves...something to share with her if/when she comes back and to look over in the meantime. A way to focus on the good that you DID have with her. Or, write in a journal to her; pour your heart out to her about how much you care, hurt, long to hold her, etc.

Also, a guided imagery tape might be of help. I esp. like the ones by Belleruth Naparstek which can find be found here: Ease Grief.

Lots of hugs and good thoughts coming your way from Colorado,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:36 PM

Miss Lily is doing nicely at least that's what I surmise from the "What have you done to improve the world" thread. Brownie Sundaes to hospital personnel - think how many will reap the benefit of that! And being there for a friend. Sonograms are fun but a little frightening too. Good for you, Lily.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:28 PM

I'm having a pretty good day. I have been looking forward to the sonogram (my girlfriend's)for weeks! After the sonogram, we went to another appointment, got some lunch and then took sundaes to the sonogram techs....that was fun and made all of us very happy! :)

I blew off every afternoon obligation I had and went back to bed this afternoon. Lunch was not a great idea as food just isn't sitting well...but I did get some more sleep and am feeling better.

((((((Hugs for everybody)))))))))))))

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:34 PM

Good news - the Church of the Reformed Quackers has added you to their mailing list. You can expect a barrage of pamphlets and little bags of dried corn. Rest easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:55 PM

OHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! *Clapping my hands and jumping up and down**

I sure hope Henrietta the Hen doesn't get to that dried corn before I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michelle, The Reformed Quacker (Good duck gone bad...gone good)

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:17 AM

Woke up this morning to, "HOney, you are never going to beleive who called." Veronica's brother called requesting that her school records be sent. Instantly my stomach is in a knot. I called Veronica (woke her up at 6:55am) and asked to speak to her mother. Mother is not there. HMPH. Veronica said that her mom needed a bunch of papers so that she could register Veronica for school. WELL GUESS WHAT? I AM NOT NOT NOT going to do a damn thing to help out that woman. SHE is the one who wants to play MOMMY let her do all the same legwork that I had to do to get Veronica registered. FUCK HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHenever I had a question of importance regarding Veronica, her mother's response was always a long, drawn out...I Dooooooooooon't KNooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. Well guess what? It's MY turn. I DOOOOOOOOOOOOON'T KNOW. I'm not the responsible adult who took in a girl and loved her and cared for her and saw to her education and health cares......no...I'm the fucking moron who was nothing more than a babysitter......an unpaid baby sitter at that. WHy would I have ANY idea as to how to handle the legistics of getting a child registered in school? _()*)(*^&^$#%^$@$@&^%$&*)^%(&*^$&#^%$#*&%^$^%#$*&%(^   AND the mother didn't have enough nerve to call me herself but sent a child in her place.....should we REALLY have expected anything different? That woman....THAT WOMAN!!!!!!!!!(*&%(&#%^$@&%^$(*&^_*(&)(&%*^#^%)*&^*)&$*^%#$@!#$@^%*(&*%

Seriously Angry Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:10 AM

Copying her mother's behavior probably isn't the best way to help the child? Her new school would presumably need to know how she has been doing, as her mother will not be able to tell them.

Sure get angry with the mother, but why take it out on the child?

Maybe you could apply to be a registered foster carer, most foster children do actually return to their birth parent/s. But part of the procedure in registering you would entail 'seperation counselling', so you would know how to act in the best interest of the child when they leave?

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: mg
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:26 AM

Call the school and explain the situation and say the child is at risk and that she be monitored carefully. Then ask them to send the records. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:09 PM

My anger with Veronica's mother is NOT taken out on her in any manner. If Veronica needs her school records, her MOTHER will have to put forth the effort to get them. Legally, I cannot request her information to be transferred as I am no longer Veronica's guardian. Her mother in incredibly lazy in ALL aspects of life and stands with her hand out. I WILL NOT be part of it any longer. It is not MY JOB OR RESPONSIBILITY TO REGISTER VERONICA IN SCHOOL IN NEW YORK STATE. I have not been rude to her mother, I have not cursed at her mother but I'll be damned if I am going to continue doing HER job as a parent. How does that hurt Veronica? She has previously learned from her mother that if you look cute and whine a bit, you generally get what you want without doing for yourself. I did my best to UNTEACH that and will not be a model for Veronica along that venue. If Veronica doesn't get to go to school on time, that is her mother's responsibility and she will have to deal with the legalities of that.

The mother has decided that she wants to play mama for now, let her tend to all that it requires...including taking a day off to get her child's paperwork in order.

You know, I wouldn't be so pissed if the mother (Ana) had taken time each week to write Veronica a note or to call...to stay in touch with her and be part of her life. But she didn't. She abandoned Veronica and we did our very best to help Veronica adjust and make a new life for herself. Now Ana feels gulity, is likely under some observation for fraud from social welfare so she decides it's time to play mommy again. I am pissed and refuse to help because not only has one very wonderful little girl been dragged around, but we were taken advantage of in a HUGE way. And why????? I don't know. We are suffering and hurting and for what? Good things happened for Veronica because of us and I am proud of that....and I want all good things for her....but damn it, I am NOT going to help her mother anymore. I can NOT.

Further, if you don't have the guts to put your name on a post where you criticize....don't bother as I won't respond again.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:14 PM

OH yes.....copying her mother's behavior? We are EVERYTHING BUT copying her mother's behavior. We call, we right, we care, we love Veronica, we never abandoned her physically, financially or mentally. I have never left her alone in the house, I have never left her with people who beat her, I have never left her to fend for her own meals and I have never EVER made her wonder about whether she is loved or not. I have not lied to her, left her at a bus station, forgot her birthday or put any other child above her...so don't even begin to compare me to her mother. Ana is concerned with what clothes she has and what brand of purse she carries.....she is not concerned with if her children have enough to eat or if they have clothes/shoes that fit them. She stands with her hand out to anyone who responds to her.....nope...I am NOTHING like her....NOTHING AT ALL.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:15 PM

It wasn't a criticism, but your reaction was precisely why I didn't put a name to it. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:18 PM

*Shrug* Not worth my time.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:20 PM

Dear Seriously Angry Michelle,

What a GREAT rant that was! Good job! I know that you will do what is best, just as you have been doing.

GREAT rant!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:23 PM

In addition, you failed to answer my question...no answers? Not willing to listen or respond to my posts...just your own arrogance. If you are going to comment that I am hurting Veronica and didn't want the kind of response you got, then perhaps you should doa better job of explaining how it is that we are hurting Veronica. You know, we the folks who have been the people who have ever showed her a loving home.

You bet I'm gonna be defensive....but since you already knew that, it's likely that you are simply looking to push some buttons. Job well done.

To the rest of you folks who have been supportive, thank you. I'm done here. I have enough difficulty making it through my days KNOWING that we did the best we could without some asshole who knows nothing of the entire situation making ridiculous comments that bring up a lot of pain.

Thanks again.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 02:03 PM

Maybe you could meet her halfway. You could give her the name and address and phone number of the school Veronica attended when she was with you, again, even if you've already given it to her before. The picture I have of her is that she doesn't function at a very high level.

Your anger is understandable, and you're entitled to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 02:08 PM

My My My. Sweet Lily has finally had her buttons pushed. I told you anger was good. Vent away. It is all healthy. And get rid of the rage before MAMA calls whining about school records. I actually think our GUEST was trying to help. Glad she was the first to post and not me.

MAMA of course had her son call because she doesn't want to speak to you. You may ask questions she doesn't want to answer.

You can be the concerned adult in this and call the mother with a name and phone number at the school with an explanation that you cannot legally request the records. They won't give them to you. That is in fact the law. Then quickly change the subject - ask about Veronica. The message that you are not going to be involved in the records will be heard loud and clear.

My experience has been that the new school can officially request the records from the old but it may require the mother's signature.

Now - more importantly - how did Veronica sound?

SINS who loves a good temper tantrum

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:05 PM

Okay...okay...so I stomped and had a fit....likely there are more where they came from. The world is full of assholes and our lovely guest is no different.

*hanging my head* Sorry about that.

I disagree with everything Guest had to say and there's little more to say about that.    We were led to believe that Veronica would be here until she graduated from high school. Stupid fucking us.....we believed that and loved Veronica with our whole hearts.....what else can I say?

Regarding the school business, Ana is going to have to figure it out on her own. I'm not sure what I'll do when she calls about it. Perhaps I just won't answer the phone. Perhaps I should make empty promises like she did....I could play stupid like she does...but that just really isn't my style...none of those. We shall see when the time comes. Gotta admit...there's a very LARGE childish side of me that wants to give back as good as I've been given. I won't...I won't...I won't...I won't.

Veronica sounded sleepy, I woke her up. I didn't talk to her long because I didn't want her to hear me cry. :( It was nice to hear her voice.....I miss her so much.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:07 PM

*hanging my head*

Don't you dare! Chin up! Resume rant!

:~)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 07:05 PM

NO HEAD HANGING! you finally have left yourself open to an honest emotion - you were used, your precious child was used, you were lied to, you've had enough!

My take on this, neither advice nor criticism: By being up front, refusing to do the leg work and giving MAMA the basic information she needs to get the records you remain the functioning adult. Playing the game by her rules gives credibility to her rules.

Veronica has to face her friends at school and explain where the hell she's been and why. It is important for her to be there Day One when all the other kids start out new. Do what you can to get her there in a timely fashion without doing anyone's work for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 04 - 09:45 PM

Thankyou Sinsull and Sue B for also being honest enough to post advice that will actually help the child.

Let's remember SHE is the victim in this sorry case.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:31 AM

Yep. she is the victim of tis case (through the fault of HER MOTHER)....doesn't mean the rest of us aren't hurting. Guess that doesn't matter though, huh?

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:48 AM

You know, Veroinca is really a victim here. She has been dragged around, kicked out, forgotten, neglected and the list goes on. In the wake of her mother's destruction are 2 other siblings who no longer were able to have contact with Veronica, her NY friends and now people in the other part of her life are suffering. OBviously my husband and I are having a difficult time...but so are the rest of her new family that was made here. My dearest friend, the one Veronica referred to as Auntie Jenn is heartbroken, her daughter, Veronica's best friend, Kayla is at a loss, Forrest, a little blonde haired blue-eyed boy who had a crush on Veronica is beside himself, my mother and Pete's mother.....neighbors and certain people from church who loved Veronica...all these people are hurting to some degree. I'm glad you are able to see that there is a child who is a victim of completely horrific parenting....but there are many more lives that were touched....don't forget that.

I have done nothing to harm Veronica, nor would I. The schooling issue really is something her mother will have to tend to as I am not legally able to get the information she needs. Veronica knows the name of the school she attended for the last year and a half and what town it is located in. That's all the information her mother needs to know to get in contact. Also, Veronica has been with her mother for a month now. School starts on Monday for Veronica. If she was so concerned with this information, why wait until the last minute? HEr first priority is not her children and never will be. That is clear in every single thing she does. It's a shame, a dirty rotten shame.
Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 10:43 AM

A very welcomed PM.......



"You're being flamed. Classic flaming. The GUEST while acting like the voice of reason throws out snide backhanded statements. You can't win. Every response you give will be turned against you. That's also why GUEST chooses to remain nameless and keeps coming back at you with the same shit - "you don't have Veronica's interests at heart." You do! Of course you do. And you're the only one who does.

This one (recognized from her style) is an unhappy bitch who has a bug up her ass against Max. IGNORE HER."

Thanks for the advice.....point well taken and appreciated.

Love,

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 11:41 AM

And that totally irrational diatribe highlights why foster carers should be professionally registered and trained.

I nowhere stated what you quoted I did.

You have repeatedly ignored questions from many posters re your qualifications/training for 'the job'.

I withdraw my good luck, it is the CHILD who needs it now.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 11:59 AM

*YAWN*

Had YOU bothered to read the ENTIRE thread, you would know that we are NOT foster parents. Go fan flames elsewhere....you know nothing of my situation and frankly, I'm not interested. *YAWN*

Michelle

PS. I didn't see anyone asking for my "qualifications." Besides, I don't see where anyone must qualify to be a parent....would be nice...but such a thing doesn't exist. Buh bye now. Have a good life.

Tschuss!

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 12:57 PM

Anyhow, "fostering" a child does not always correspond to being a foster parent recognized by the State. It's an old practice in many cultures. The term now has a legal meaning, but the reality is more than the legality.

In other words, one can be in effect "a foster parent" without being "a Foster Parent".

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 01:01 PM

I did read the entire thread. I know you are not a foster parent.

Which is why I, and many others on this thread, suggested you could enquire about the process of becoming one.

Like I said it would involve a rigorous assesment on yourself and plenty of professional help and training. However you seem to think you need neither.

Had this been an authorised fostering the CHILD'S return to her birth mother would be being monitored right now. THAT is in the interest of the child.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST,school office employee
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 01:16 PM

Imagine this conversation in a school office:

What a lovely girl. Since she's new here, she doesn't have a lot of friends yet, but she'll have lots of them in no time. Academically, we're just not sure where she is. We need to have her records, to know how she has been served in the past, and how we can best help her. If we place her with so and so , she'll receive such and such. On the other hand, she might be better served by being in such and such program. It doesn't appear that mom is much of an advocate for her or we'd have what we need already. The sooner we have those records, the better off this child will be.


That said, it may well be that the school can request transfer of records once a child has been registered. Given the name and location of the school, they should have no trouble obtaining the information they need. (Laws may differ from state to state on that, though)

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 02:18 PM

"The Shuddadons" is what we call the kind of focus that is more about what someone ought to have done in the past than about encouraging them toward what they choose to do in the future once they get their venting done. It's amazing really how elegantly people make and implement decisions, once the venting has occurred without interference.

An archaic, nearly-extinct species-- shuddadons.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 02:38 PM

The focus HAS been about what she could do in the future.

Interference? Why post on an open forum then?

Anyone who professes to know how to care for someone elses damaged child WITHOUT support and professional training is a liability.

There is a very slim chance that the birth mother has sought help and counselling,in an effort to improve her parenting skills, and was too embarrassed to phone and ask for help herself. I do not think it was right for her son to do the calling, but can understand why she avoided it.

On the otherhand maybe she couldn't be bothered? Let's hope the new school will eventually recognise her problems and direct her to the many skilled bodies that exist to pick up the pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 03:00 PM

Yes-- I can't think of anyone who does not hope for this:

Let's hope the new school will eventually recognise her problems and direct her to the many skilled bodies that exist to pick up the pieces.

But as to the focus of the thread, it would seem to me that the thread title reflects a clear intent to vent, and in addition to hoping for the above (italics), I also hope that the venting that has been possible has been useful and will contribte to a good outcome for all concenred.

And I, for one, would be pleased to see more of the venting.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 03:42 PM

Guest says:
"I said it would involve a rigorous assesment on yourself and plenty of professional help and training."

I don't know what wonderful world you live in but I was a registered certified foster parent in NYC and the training was minimal. Assessment? They measured my huge bedrooms and checked to see if there was milk in the frig.They also did a background check for previous abuse complaints. Mostly I was instructed to do whatever nonsense the supervising social worker (not college trained but promoted through the system) said. This included lying about supervised visits, removing my son from school for three days for a dental appointment - one to dope him up, one for treatment, one for recovery. I could go on forever. And it hit the fan when I took him after school one day to my family dentist who treated him without painkiller and without incident. First they threatened not to pay for it - that was never an option for me. Then they threatened to sue the dentist. I offered my lawyer's number.He was healthy, happy, for the first time in his life doing well in school...but I was an unfit foster mother because I did not blindly take direction.

Shall I tell you about his previous foster parents who beat him with wire hangers until he required hospitalization? They were allowed to keep their other foster children when he was removed - obviously the beatings were his own doing. Or the ones before that who covered him with bruises and human bites? How about the sexual abuse performed systematically by another foster mother's boyfriend?

I am with Lily, GUEST. Time to go flame someplace else and preferably on a subject you have some experience in.

And back to the original topic - Lily, you have been used. Veronica is a pawn. Rant away and do what you know is best. You have a head on your shoulders and a good heart. Your best instincts will not fail you.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 04:28 PM

Whatever you may personally believe...the parent/child bond will always be there in spite of any conditions or environment.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 05:25 PM

Sinsull being called an 'unfit foster mother' has obviously had an effect on you. You are quite right I have no experience of how that would feel.

But to damn a whole profession because of bad apples within it's ranks is extreme.

Presumably then you would not call the police if you woke one night to find intruders trying to break into your home, because of Rodney King's experiences.

And then of course there are abusive priests, incompetent surgeons and crooked accountants. They exist, but they are not representative of their colleagues as a whole.

I think that a social worker who has been promoted through the ranks has probably had more experience than a fresh faced college leaver, can not see a problem there either.

Flaming? No, just not in agreement with you, which in your view amounts to the same thing.

WYSIWYG...you are right. She is angry because she cares. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:27 PM

Good point, GS. Through it all my son worried about his mother and loved her. Veronica loves her mother. It is natural and normal. I would never recommend criticizing a birth parent to a foster or adopted child. You might as well cut out his heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 08:37 PM

I remember my first encounter with Moose while skinny dipping in Maine. One pair of very civilized mother and child, nice, compatible, not a lot of noise, adult kept child away from the nasty humans. One pair of noisy moose, bawling calf, mother nipping at it.

Reminded me of that quintessential joke from "Fish Called Wanda"

Kevin Kline character is making fun of the stutterer, sister character Jamie Lee tells Michael Palin, the poor stutterer, "you've got to forgive Otto, Dad used to beat him."

Palin goes: "g-g-g-g-g-g-g-good!"