BS: Parenting Questions

Subject: Parenting Questions
From: Morticia
Date: 31 May 01 - 08:31 AM

I have recently acquired a 15 year old boy, well at least, I've always had part ownership in him but when his dad died a few weeks ago he became mine full-time.He did not come with either instructions or an owners manual and I need to know a few things that were not an issue when he only holidayed with me, for example:
Exactly how much pizza can one of these things consume before he a) explodes b)stops being hungry c) gets tired of it?
When he stares into the fridge, what he is expecting to find that wasn't in there when he did it three minutes before?
Is a grunt a) an opening declaration of war,b) a greeting c)a cry for help or d)none of the above?
When he has watched more than four hours of MTV, should I a)take his pulse b) force him outdoors to see daylight or c)remove the remote control and change to the History channel?
When one or more of them are gathered in a room should I a)stay well away and warn the neighbours b)count the plates and glasses in and out and hope they tally at some point c)pipe in sunlight at regular intervals to ward off scurvy
Finally, is his point of view that fresh vegetables, haircuts, regular bathing and underwear that doesn't crunch are the work of the Devil, an acceptable one?

Any and all pointers in the care and feeding of these creatures will be gratefully accepted.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Matt_R
Date: 31 May 01 - 08:39 AM

I'd help, since I used to be one...but I was the kind of 15-year-old who was reading classic literature, listening to opera, playing classical guitar, building models, getting military regulation haircuts, and editor-in-chief-ing a family run newsletter in a foreign country!

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Midchuck
Date: 31 May 01 - 09:07 AM

Exactly how much pizza can one of these things consume before he a) explodes b)stops being hungry c) gets tired of it?

I read somewhere, that a normal, average sized, adult with a "normal" life style might be able to consume, and utilize - for energy to run on, or repair tissues, not to build fat - two thousand calories a day. A large, muscular logger, working long hours of hard physical labor in very cold weather, might consume and utilize as much as four thousand. For a teen-ager in a growth spurt, six thousand is possible.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 May 01 - 09:11 AM

Morticia,
I can't begin to tell you how much I admire your courage. This model does not come with an instruction manual. A lot depends on how much of a relationship you had with him before he lost his father. And he is grieving which will probably take the form of anger. Listen a lot. And get professional advice when you feel you need it. At fifteen, he is eager to be independent and just as eager to be controlled. You can't win.
Love works and listen if and when he does something other than grunt.
PM me if you want specifics - been there and done that. It is worth the effort.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: UB Ed
Date: 31 May 01 - 09:32 AM

Getting ready for teens myself, but am having practice runs as a result of philosophical differences between their mother and me.

Sinsull's right about the bereavement anger. Add to that the typical teenage angst and BOOM!

My quick thought is to lay out ground rules based on expectations and future goals. Recognize this is the situation you both have been handed and you both need to make the best of it. You might discuss your expectations for his performance in school, cleanliness and physical health. He may share some expectations of his own (lucky you). However, throughout the discussion both of you should somehow continue to realize the whole purpose of this exercise is to enable him to be a successful adult and your sole interest in a positive outcome for him is your unconditional love of your child.

Best of luck Morty.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: jeffp
Date: 31 May 01 - 09:41 AM

Answers to your questions - in order -

Quantity of pizza? - Unknown, never been determined

Staring into fridge? - Hoping something has miraculously appeared that looks better than what was there 5 seconds ago. Sure it's unrealistic, but how many realistic teenagers have you met?

Grunt? - None/All of the above.

MTV? - Do all of the above, for your own sanity at least.

Groups? - You've got the right idea, except for scurvy you need vitamin C (citrus). Vitamin D cures rickets.

His point of view about the rest (work of the Devil) is typical and will be outgrown. Unfortunately, you may not be willing to let him live long enough to outgrow them.

You are embarking on a scary, tedious, and ultimately rewarding journey. I wish you the best of luck and can only counsel you to love him, especially when you want to strangle him! (And believe me, at times you WILL want to strangle him.) As Sinsull says, love works. Sometimes it just takes too damn long. Hang in there and good luck.

jeffp (been there, still there)

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 May 01 - 09:56 AM

Kids in their teens need two basic things from their adults. They need to know that they have some independence and they need to know they are loved and accepted. These are not necessarily diametrically opposing views. Trust the child and let him know you trust him. Also make sure that he knows of your disappointment when he fails a test of trust. And do so with love and the understanding that your ability to trust him has been strained and needs to heal (e.g., I trusted you to call me when you went to X's house. You didn't. Because of this I would like you to tell me when you go over to X's house again before you go. No threats, no angry outburst (it's OK to be angry, just control it) no apparent irrational response.)

The kid also needs to know you are there for him. He needs to know you will support his decisions and when you can support them. And he needs to know he can make these decisions.

It seems pretty complicated but it isn't. You always perform a balancing act but once you get the rhythm you will be fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: BobP
Date: 31 May 01 - 10:20 AM

In my youth (60's) we struggled to emancipate society from the madness of chasing the almighty dollar.

We failed, bigtime!

With today's kids, access to bucks($) is objective #1.

Having raised two (boy in col / daughter in HS but acts fully grown), I can attest that they will do almost anything to acquire dough.

Knowing that, and having no particular moral dilemma with bribery, I know I can modify behavior to achieve what I want, so long as it fits their sense of reason and fair play.

you probably can't use it to get them to eat spinach, but: clean their rooms, do their homework, come home on time, dress in a manner inconsistent with your average hooker; that you can do, most of the time.

I believe in hard work. I believe in child-labor. I saw kids raised on farms who had serious chores from an early age, and what I saw was good. One thing I do not believe in is an allowance (domestic welfare).

I encouraged my kids to get jobs and I think both learned as much practical stuff from their jobs as they did in school.

I think it's a good thing to get them pointed early in the direction they'll be headed anyway, later in life.

May not work like love, but it sure gets their attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: GUEST
Date: 31 May 01 - 10:42 AM

1)Teenaged boys (some girls too) are bottomless pits when it comes to pizza. If you need to rationalize, you can tell yourself at least there are some major food groups represented. And rewarding or witholding pizza can be a powerful behavior modifier.

2) When he stares into the fridge, he obviously is hoping that PIZZA magically appeared during the three minute interim. Or he's using the refrigeration as a concentrated form of air conditioning, especially after a particularly grueling game of basketball or soccer.

3) A grunt is universal 'guy' language and has to be interpreted in the context in which it was emitted. So the answer to this question is: all of the above, depending on the situation.

4) Excessive MTV consumption can usually be counteracted by an offer of (you guessed it) PIZZA.

5) When one or more are gathered in a room, you should do a),b) and c) as well as be thankful that for now they're not wreaking havoc on unsuspecting and innocent citizens in the world at large.

More intimately than most mothers, you have a savory opportunity to understand the male perspective at a developmental stage. With your guidance, watching him mature into a man will be a fascinating - sometimes frustrating - and insightful experience.

To undertake such a daunting task signifies you have everything you need to do the job, and in the event none of the insights offered in this post prove helpful, your love and understanding (and humor) will substitute quite nicely.

All the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:15 AM

Morticia, I see that you are keeping a healthy sense of humor through this. I just hope the adolescent in question has one too, and that he is not too sensitive to being made fun of. Boys are probably just as sensitive as girls, but they tend to show it by getting angry instead of crying. Keep reminding yourself, in times of stress, that the boy who yells and swears is probably hurting inside the same way a girl would be if she were crying.

Also, boys are not comforted in the same way as girls. Instead of letting you hug him, he may say, "Leave me alone!" If he refuses to talk, and turns away from you when you think he should be talking, let him go - or at least give him time to get control of his emotions before you try talking to him again. You have to respect his desire to be in control of himself.

I wish I could give more advice, but I'm still figuring things out myself. (I have a son who's almost 14.)

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:25 AM

Morty, sounds like he's right on schedule! I certainly don't envy you!

When my daughter was young, a pediatrician and father of one of her girlfriends pointed out that girls confide in their peers, boys confide in their mothers. Seems that young boys want to talk about sensitive subjects, but it's just not done with the guys. That's why they have mothers!

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:37 AM

Rarely have I read a post where someone nailed it so completely yet concisely as Sins did above:

At fifteen, he is eager to be independent and just as eager to be controlled. You can't win. Love works and listen if and when he does something other than grunt.

Like Sins, PM me too if you want specifics. And I hate to be a complete downer here, but you're in for a few rough years......You'll get through them, but the teenage male is a "trying" animal at best.

Much Love,

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: mousethief
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:37 AM

As Arnold Horseshack used to say, "Be brave, little buckaroo!" I got an instant just-add-water family when I married my wife (4 stepkids!) and it's really a struggle. The only general advice I can give is, be patient, be consistent, be firm, be loving. Not necessarily in that order.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Hollowfox
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:44 AM

There's lots of good advice here. The best advice I ever got was: Choose Your Battles Carefully. Decide what's really important in the long run, and don't sweat the small stuff. You'll have to be fair and consistant in your homelife policies, and (even worse) you'll have to be a Good Example. I have three teens myself, and a "Do as I say, not as I do." lifestyle simply will not do. How could I realistically expect them to, say, put the dirty dishes in the kitchen sink, if I don't do it myself? So I have to get my chores done before I can relax, just like them (sigh). This makes me hold a slightly higher standard at home than I would if there were no witnesses, but I figure that if the leash is just *slightly* short now, when they go off on their own in a few years and they loosen their standards just a wee bit (and who among us didn't?), they'll come out just about right.
Get ready for the contradictions. Myself, I've been chewed out by the same kid for 1) waking him up so he could go to church and 2) not waking him up the next week, but letting him sleep in. And remember that stage when he was a toddler when he wanted to explore/wanted to hang on to your leg? That's been upgraded as well. My 16 year old "corrected" me (he's big on this) for asking for dinner menu suggestions. "Just put it in front of us, and we'll eat it." So much for treating him a bit more like an equal. Still, we do have fun with each other. I don't try to be a teenager, but I do listen to their CD's. So far mine haven't chosen any I'm uncomfortable with.
When there are guests over, I stay more or less out of sight, but in earshot. If there's a concern about plates and glasses, get some cheap stuff that you won't care about.
For sunlight, pull the drapes open, if the weather's good, open the windows for some fresh air. After all, you like it, and you live there, too.
For matters of hygene, I'd have to set some standards. Bathing and laundry are more important than the hair, though, unless it's so long he steps on it.
For better nutrition, maybe you could sneak the veg onto the pizza, covering it with extra cheese? If you try to force this issue, he won't eat it, and you'll be stuck with hard feelings and wasted food.
Since you both live in the same house, and he's old enough to take part in household management, there should be a partnership of some sort so you don't get stuck with all of the work. Mean old mom. Good luck. This is the hardest, but perhaps the most important part of the whole deal. This is where the house changes from your home to "our home" for him. There'll be a lot of negotiation, trade-offs ("I'll do this job all the time, if you do that one") etc., but what grows out of it is worth the sweat.
In the end, (I'm assuming there are no problems with drugs, gangs, etc), from what I've read of your postings, I think things will turn out all right for the both of you. I hope you can find some shared interests, teens can be great company. (I have do decide which jokes and drinking songs a lad should learn from his mother) Neither of you will die of boredom. Have fun, Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: MMario
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:56 AM

having been one once-upon-a-time; I agree with Sinsull - you can't win...but my brothers and I all agree we really appreciate that our parents TRIED...

and struggle against them as we did - we most appreciate that they set limits for us...and were consistant if we pushed the limits...

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:03 PM

One more thing: I heard a psychologist on the radio the other day say that boys talk more easily while they're doing something else, like washing dishes, working on a crafts project, or traveling in a car somewhere. It's hard to get them to "just talk." So far, I haven't used this strategy, but anyway, I think my son talks more to my wife than to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: kendall
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:10 PM

Been there, done that, get him checked for depression. I recognize the signs. He is trying to fill a void which cant be filled.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: annamill
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:17 PM

Wow! Life can hand you some tough blows sometimes and your new young friend will be in pain and angry and resentful. Let him know you understand, but still require respect. Give him lots and lots of love and hugs. Even if it seems he doesn't want this.

My son had a hard time because his dad was such an abusive jerk. I did all I could to maintain his self-esteem. I lucked out and it seems that maybe I did good.

As said above, don't sweat the small stuff. Give him your opinion, but let him make his own decisions. My son got into the fad of wearing a bandana on his head at all times.(I can't tell you how many I tossed one into the trash without telling him) I didn't hassle him too much about it, but he knew I didn't like it and he also knew there were times when, if he wanted to be with me, he had to leave it at home.

That brings us to trust. Him trusting you, not you trusting him. James was very surprised when, years later, I told him I had tossed his bandanas because it never occurred to him that mother could do anything as underhanded as that. ;-) It took a while, but James has been able to tell me about things he is doing, expecting my opinion, but knowing I would ultimately leave the decision up to him.

No matter what you do in your relationship with him, do it with love. If you get angry, be angry and let him know it, but do it with love. Do not let contempt enter your conversations. Contempt has no place in this relationship. He'll never trust you if he feels you hold him in contempt and you'll never be able to help him.

Sorry, this is too long.

Love, annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Morticia
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:30 PM

Kendall,what makes you say that? He doesn't appear depressed, he's eating ( oh boy, is he eating!) and sleeping well, participates in things when prompted,doesn't want to talk about his dad much but doesn't flinch if I do....I wouldn't want to haul him down the doc's unless I was sure that was an issue and I think he would see it as an unpardonable intrusion. Thanks for all your advice, everyone.I guess we will muddle through okay.....just wish the darned things came with instuctions!

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:39 PM

Morty, dear, you came to the right place- I agree that Sins has done it again as far as getting to the heart of the problem. You know I too 15-yr old son with his own set of baggage, and you know where to find me for more.
Typical evening conversation in my house:
Me: What do you want for dinner, Dylan?
Dylan: Pizza!!Me (sighing): What else would be acceptable?
Dylan: More pizza!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: MMario
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:42 PM

Morty - there are people who would tell you depression and 15 year old male are synonomous... also anger/rebellion and 15 yr old males....

sometimes yes, sometimes no. Hell - I've been one...and doubt if I could come close to writing an instruction manual...even for the MMario model...

I think you've got the basics...mostly the rest is prayer and patience.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:50 PM

Morty,
Lest you despair completely - you must be doing something right if his friends are gathering in your home. Teenage boys only go to the home where they feel welcome. And teenage boys only invite friends to their homes if they are sure they won't be embarrassed.Very good sign. Naemanson can probably expand on this. For obvious reasons, it is always better to have them gathering at your home even if it means feeding them and resorting to paper plates.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: RichM
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:54 PM

Um, yeah what everyone else said! I have a 21 year old, in university ,still living at home--currently he's in Thailand for 2 months...yippee!

I remember him at 15, and every one here has accurately described the profile.
What can I add?
Make rules
Discuss the rules before you start them
Be gentle in stating them, but insist they be followed
Be open from time to time, to renegotiation of the rules.
Apply with lots of hugs
Try not to get exasperated, but you will!

Rich McCarthy

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: kendall
Date: 31 May 01 - 12:56 PM

Morty, I say it because I know first hand the symptoms. Overeating, constantly looking outside oneself for something to ease the pain (not really expecting to find it in the fridge, but, hoping for a miracle) I'm dealing with those very symptoms right now, and, I'm well over 15.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Grab
Date: 31 May 01 - 01:01 PM

On the washing and underwear fronts, it's amazing what a young body can put up with. I speak here from personal experience as a seriously scuzzy git! I'm mostly cured now, since I've found it's more comfortable to wear clean undies, but at uni I was infamous for my shortage of underwear and frequent reuse of same, and for my use of swimming trunks when I'd forgotten to wash the few pairs of undies I did possess.

Bottom line, if he doesn't smell (too much) then don't worry. And if he really starts to hum, you can bet his friends will get him to wash! Or he'll start to itch and get spots, and then he'll figure it out for himself.

A grunt is usually a acknowledgement you're there, and is used by all males regardless of age. Whether it's good ("Hi mum") or bad ("you're in my way") is difficult to tell. Read Pratchett and consider the word "ook".

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 May 01 - 02:09 PM

Lots of good stuff here. The one thing I would say is, I highly agree with setting rules/limits and sticking to them, BUT know in your own mind, at least, what measures you will take, if he ever decides to ignore them. I don't think it is good to say to them, for instance, "my way or the highway", but there could come a time of utter rebellion when they just cannot continue to disrupt the rest of the household.

I've been there, I know. My son and I went through a terrible time when I told him he had to live by our rules or move out, at just 17 years old. He moved out. BUT, he has thanked me, since, and has turned out to be quite the young man, who does his own laundry (at some point, mom HAS to quit doing it for them, boys and girls) And, because he partnered with a strong womon, not unlike his mom**BG**, he knows if he doesn't wash the dishes, there is no gourmet dinner on the table that night! Their arrangement, but I taught him how to wash up! :-) And, he loves her cooking!

Mortee, when I had him I was 17. Didn't know beans about raising a kid. He knew he was loved and cared for; he was fed, clothed, and housed. He was challenged, engaged, educated, read to, sung to, played with, restricted, let loose, praised with lots and lots of positive reinforcement and he came out okay despite his mom's initial ignorance.

With your professional background, your maturity and your compassion, you will do fine. It's just going to be really rough at times. BUT, that's why you have us...we'll be here for you in those times and good.

Finally, just like in divorce, it is very important that he knows his dad's passing is in no way his fault. There was a letter in Ann Lander's today from a 10 year old girl whose dad committed suicide three years ago. Here's what she had to say:

I want all the kids out there to know that if your dad kills himself, it's not your fault, and there is nothing you could have done to save him. People who do things like that have no idea what they are doing to the people they leave behind. You just have to forgive them and go on with your own life. The best thing to do is talk to a counselor and get it out of your system. That is what I am doing and it helps.

Lucy

He may not want to talk about his dad, now, but I would watch very carefully for signs that he may need to. Oftentimes, boys, esp., will deny a need for talking things out as it is embarrassing to them.

Phew, sorry, didn't mean to go on so much. You will be okay, Mortee, he couldn't get anyone better than you to help him grow through this.

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Noreen
Date: 31 May 01 - 02:50 PM

I have found Jim Dixon's point above to be true : boys talk more easily while they're doing something else (not just boys either, but this is particularly useful for teenage boys who wouldn't talk otherwise).

Long country walks are ideal, if that works for the family in question, or a longish car drive with just the two of you. It's something about the not-looking-at-each-other-while-doing-something-else which seems to make it easier to talk.

And don't worry about the depression, Terri- if he is depressed it's a totally normal reactive depression, as would be expected in the circumstances, and it will pass. I certainly would not encourage him to take medication at this stage, unless he can't cope with life. He seems to be coping extremely well in the way he knows best- respect him for that.

Much love,

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: mousethief
Date: 31 May 01 - 02:59 PM

Try to lead by example and request rather than demand. Sometimes it can't be helped, but the less you use "or else" the more power it will have.

alex

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 May 01 - 03:18 PM

Actually you will find that the boys will talk at the oddest times. My nephew used to paint intricate little figures for playing Dungeons and Dragons. He would be concentrating on painting a tiny face, and with his brow furrowed and eyes squinting, would talk about his relationship with his father. Learn to listen for these times and be ready to drop what you are doing and listen. These opportunities come without warning and generally in spite of anything you do to set them up.

One way I have found to get household chores done is to draw up a check list of fairly easy chores that need doing every week. I ask that one get done every night and apply that requirement to myself as well. My daughters can choose and I don't ride heard but the chores do accumulate. Miss one night and you have two to do the next night.

Also, we have a rule in our house that the cook doesn't do the dishes. This accomplishes two things. It prompts my daughters to learn to cook and it allows whoever cooks full latitude in making a mess. This is not an easy rule to maintain but we manage more often than not.

And, yes, you heard it right. I have daughters. Only one left at home (she's 17) but I have been through adolescence twice now and I fgure I've had it easy.

As Sinsull says, teenagers go where they feel welcome. Even your new son's friends can accept a few rules if they make sense. Many is the time I have come home to find six or more teens flaked out around my living room engaged in talking, playing video games, or watching movies. You'll go through a lot of food, endless beverages, and at the end, after he has moved on, you will never regret a penny spent for any of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Hollowfox
Date: 31 May 01 - 03:21 PM

Mousethief is right. I try to let the urchins know why I want something done, rather than just laying down the law. This doesn't always make it easier, and I sometimes still have a tussle on my hands, but they're intelligent beings, and I find that I'm more willing to do something I don't like if I know the reason why, so it stands to reason they should get the same treatment. (most hated explanation: "You have to do your homework before you turn on the TV, or the homework won't get done. It's human nature. And that television show will give you a reason to get the homework done by X o'clock." It drives 'em nuts. *BG*)

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: jeffp
Date: 31 May 01 - 03:25 PM

You'll also be amazed at how much your kid's friends will talk to you and your kid will talk to his friends' parents. It's like your own parents are idiots, but your friends' parents are really cool. Hasn't changed since I was a kid, really.

jeffp

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 May 01 - 04:29 PM

Haha...you're right, Jeff! My almost 24yr old is still doing that!

My kids and I always had the best talks in long drives, mostly just going places.

When they were little, I made up a list of things that had to do each day, including things like hug one another, say one nice thing about themselves, etc. it wasn't all physical chores. Each one that they completed they marked off and received a poker chip. The poker chips had monetary value and they got a higher amount for the less tangible "chores".

Anyway, at the end of the week, when mom and dad were off from work, they could "cash in their chips" for money, I think the most was a dime per blue chip, and on down, with which they could buy whatever they wanted, within reason. They usually made a trip to Dairy Queen and got an ice-cream cone or my son would get a new Matchbox car.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 31 May 01 - 04:29 PM

I can't really add anything that hasn't been said already but as Alec is 15 later this year I know just what you are going through and of course he will be missing his father and trying to come to terms with the circumstances. He sounds about right for a 15 year old to me and I agree that no medical help is likely to be needed at present. There will be days when he will shout at you, far outweighed by the days when you'll do the shouting but if you make your feelings clear and explain why you want certain things done(not when in mid- shout!) you'll stand a better chance of his playing by (most of)the rules. You all have to live together and he deserves to have his views heard as well.
As to pizza teenage boys have hollow legs! But as I have pointed out to Alec MANY times he may be a bottomless pit but my purse isn't so when a healthy appetite starts looking like pure greed I put my foot down-until the next time!!
Like others have said feel free to pm me anytime but I think you'll be fine!
Jane

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: bbc
Date: 31 May 01 - 04:45 PM

Not much advice from here, but a lot of empathy. In our society, we don't get any training or, usually, much support in our parenting. I've raised 2 boys mostly alone from the ages of 2 1/2 & 5 1/2 to now 16 & 19. Each stage we go through is new to us on both sides & we do the best we can, w/ love, communication, & some level of mutual respect. I have never claimed to be perfect & I am rather liberal w/ my kids, but there comes a point at which my word is still law. As others have said, choose your battles & allow the young one space to mature & learn responsibility for his actions. The latest milestone on the homefront is the 1st break-up w/ a girlfriend. It seemed, at the time, that it was appropriate for me to help out w/ advice to both sides. Now, my son & the girl are making up & she & I can't stand each other. Awkward. Maybe next time, the better part of valor will be for me to stay out of it. I hope my son will still be willing to confide in me if he needs an adult opinion. Sigh. You can't go too far wrong w/ love & communication, I think. Just for the record, I still think he's better off w/out this girl, but I realize that it *is* his life (& I am trying to keep my mouth shut, at least from now on).

best,

bbc (older &, perhaps slightly wiser, in NY)

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Hollowfox
Date: 31 May 01 - 04:52 PM

'Tish, are you buying the pizzas, or making them from scratch? You can really impress a bunch of teens by throwing together a pizza, and it's cheaper as well. Sometimes the teens even start impressing their guests by knowing how to throw together pizza, spagetti, and other such basic foods. I have a good, easy crust recipe, if you want it.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 May 01 - 07:01 PM

The moment of truth...Brett, were the dishes done when you arrived home?
Mary, grinning.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 May 01 - 07:16 PM

The dishes were done! But the griddle was not. No complaints here.

For those who need to know on Sunday morning I cooked a feed of French toast for myself, Sinsull, both of my daughters and my older daughter's boyfriend. When we left to go to New Hampshire I left the dirty dishes stacked in the sink and a request (please note, it was phrased as a request) that Amy do them before I got home. Sure enough the dishes were done and the counter wiped down.

I TOLD you Sinsull, I have the two best children on Earth. Why else would bbc be offering a huge bride price for my younger daughter? BG!

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 May 01 - 07:26 PM

Hollowfox, you just reminded me of the first time my girlfriend and I tried to impress boys by inviting them over to eat. We were all around 14 years old and my mom said we could make a pizza, from the box.

Not having worked that kind of dough before, we pulled, and prodded, mashed and stretched. It was pathetic. We didn't let it rise enough and it only covered about 1/2 of the round pizza pan! What a hoot! I think they ate it anyway, being teen boys and all. Thanks for sparking my memory!

bbc, when my son broke up with his first girlfriend he was almost 17 and she was an "older" woman, in college. I knew we were dong okay, when he came and sat on my bed and cried his heart out and let me hold him that night. He thought his whole world had ended and he came to mom. I was so very grateful for that moment and his trust.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: bbc
Date: 31 May 01 - 08:49 PM

kat, Our story is a bit complicated--involving the Internet & a public journal site. I'm suspect technology is a mixed blessing, as far as romance goes. The 1st stage of the break-up took place over AIM & things just went downhill from there. I put my $.02-worth in as comment on the journal site, since the girl was publicly bad-mouthing my boy in a very inaccurate way. She freaked; he reconsidered. Then, my ex-husband (The one who cost me $50,000.) suddenly becoming the "good" parent by not offering advice, but facilitating the 2 of them getting together. The good news is that I *think* my son is still on speaking terms w/ me. Gee, Brett, we could afford the one elephant, but 2 w/ all that 24-carat gold is just beyond our means, I'm afraid (Although it's clear she's well-worth it!). As I recall, the girls expressed some disinclination to be sold, didn't they? ;) Hope to see you this summer (Clam Festival weekend?).

love,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 31 May 01 - 09:13 PM

Ok, I know I'm only just out of my teens at 20/21 but I feel that this gives ME the best insight into your problems....(sorry I was a psyc student for 2 years)...ok here's the answers to your questions:

1)it is impossible to stop a teenager from eating pizza constantly, one way to stop this though, is to tell him if he wants pizza he can buy it himself get pocket money, or you buy it and he gets no pocket money. Bribery is always the bast way with teenagers as £/$ signs are always rolling around their eyes, just like in cartoons. If he does stop eating the pizza he will do what your next question was....

2) He will keep going back to the fridge every 30 seconds or so to see if anything "decent" to eat has appeared in the fridge ie: chokkie bikkies, chocolate....or cold pizza.....

3)a, b, c and d!!!!

4) a, but you don't really have to worry about his pulse, we are usually just mesmorised by the music, so that's not a problem. NEVER, I repeat NEVER send a teenager out into sunlight, we are all VAMPIRES!! So never open the bedroom curtains ever!!

5)yes, except for the underwear part. EWWWWW!! Girls are obviously much more hygienic!!

Some other pointers.....never tell him he needs to shave even when he decideds it'd be cool to have a beard. This only encourages them!!

ONE GOLDEN RULE: WHATEVER THEY LIKE YOU MUST HATE, AND WHATEVER YOU LIKE THEY HATE!!

I know i did it with folk music for 18 years!! I've learned from my mistake though!!

Yes I know this rule sounds totally stupid, but it will help in the long run. If you want to have something in common, let him say he likes it too first...then you know you're in and you can start liking the same stuff, but not everything, I mean, that would just be wierd...........................................................................................

Ihavea15yearoldbratermbrotheremma

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Amos
Date: 31 May 01 - 10:30 PM

Known consequences, safely but unfailingly carried out, is one cardinal rule.

And here's one that no-one seems to have mentioned. The best boost to morale, attitude, what have you, you can get in a young human is to coax, steer, coerce or trick them into producing somerthing valuable -- whether it is washed dishes, turned broomsticks, or painted fences.. There is nothing for self esteem anywhere near the sense of having turned out an admirable result of some kind, and it cures the worst woolies, especially if it is admired. Paid for is fpne, too, but I think the admiration for performance will mean more to a teen boy than the money, other opinions notwithstanding. But it has to be geneuine. (Both the production and the admiration).

Finally, I suggest you consult with Spaw who has juggled more bad apples into passable shape than anyone else I know.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 May 01 - 10:32 PM

My teen loves pizza but likes Chinese food more!

And everyone knows that if you check the fridge something will have materialized since the last time you checked. Hell I'm 48, I buy everything that goes in there and I STILL check the fridge evry so often.

That reminds me, there is some watermelon in there that needs to be eaten.

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:01 PM

just as ours turned 15 (4 years ago) a comic strip appeared in the paper which is perfect...look here (it seems to not have 'live' strips up right now, but if you can find it 'up', tune in for a wonderful dose of humor about the topic!

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:12 PM

Our local paper has been running this one, too, Bill. I love it, esp. when they get into pizza!

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 May 01 - 11:19 PM

Thank you Amos, but i too am just another of those "searching for an answer." It's like the old philosophy joke about a blind man looking for a non-existent black cat in a black room with no windows.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread because it does something all parents need........yeah, you need to communicate with your teen, but perhaps even more, we need to communicate with each other. As both a particiant and as a trainer in alternative care parenting, the shared experiences can produce new approaches and something that did not work for one may be just what YOU need. Every situation has many things in common, but the human factor means it is always different too.

I've never been an advocate of going to classes to have someone tell us how to parent, but classes that approach only one aspect and give you specific ideas AND allow for shared communication are the most beneficial skill builders for any thinking parent. Foster and Adoptive parents are "forced" into this and I think most begin to enjoy the good sessions after awhile because they always come away feeling better about themselves and their situations.......and with a few new "tacks" to try. Always made me believe that bio parents could do with some of the same "forcing" but it would never fly of course.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 12:22 AM

Well....what do I know? I'm a Mom of a 17 and 14 year old ... and what I've figured out is that ... you've got to like them, they sense that right off . They know when you like them... They know when you are in judgement of them or their friends. Talk, talk, and more talk ..... Don't come down too heavy ... give them lots of "What if's" and give them the opportunity to work things out ... Keep your finger on the pulse and let them "think" that they have figured it out! I love my teens and all of their friends ... they are all great people. I can honestly say that I'm enjoying my parenting years more now than ever before! Good luck to you ... this is the best! Barb

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: DougR
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 01:16 AM

Morticia, I raised three children and since the younger of the three is now 40, all of them were, at one time, 15. Therefore, I am experienced. My advice is ...er ...uh, oh ...well ... Sorry, I haven't a clue.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 06:06 AM

I have two teenagers in the house. One is my 19 year old son Tom and the other my 14 year old daughter Sophie.
I spent two hours last night braiding my sons hair - he looks most peculiar, but seems to like it. He told me once when he was about 15 that I couldn't possibly understand what was going on in his head because I had never been a boy. I had to agree with him, that yes, I never had been a boy!
My daughter Sophie wants to be 22, and we are having constant trouble with issues like what time to be in, where she goes etc. I never had any trouble with her older sisters - you know, I sometimes think luck has a bit to do with it. Anyway, I will wish you well and I hope to call in and see you at the back end of this month
Shall I bring some spare Pizza!
love
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Naemanson
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 06:21 AM

Spaw is right but the other thing this thread does is to reassure us that we are doing all right in spite of the lack of an instruction book. By talking amongst ourselves we can see that what we are doing is the right thing.

And I hope there are some lurking out there who might say, "Gee, maybe that will work!" and use it to improve a difficult teen situation. (Yeah, yeah, and pigs will fly some day...)

Subject: RE: BS: Parenting Questions
From: Morticia
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 06:29 AM

A sort of Mudcat Parent's Sanctuary? Bring me your huddled masses, your aching heads, your weary wallets? That sort of thing?Excellent idea.Seriously though,it does help to be able to sound ideas out,seek another viewpoint, not feel as though I am the only one puzzled by this strange lifeform.Thanks guys.And Patrish, look forward to seeing you and you had probably best bring some aspirin....does anyone know why 'thrash metal' has to be played so loud and what exactly is it?