BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:12 PM

All these conspiracy threories are beyond silly... They are downright boring...

Who cares if Barak Obama was the only 8 year old in the WeatherUnderground... It don't change what he has to offer today... Or more importantly, tomorrow... The 60's were a long time ago...

Beyond silly...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:55 PM

McCain faults paper for not releasing Khalidi tape
BETH FOUHY ASSOCIATED PRESS
Originally published 05:41 p.m., October 29, 2008, updated 05:07 p.m., October 29, 2008

Buzz up!BOWLING GREEN, OHIO (AP) - Republicans John McCain and Sarah Palin accused the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday of protecting Barack Obama by withholding a videotape of the Democrat attending a 2003 party for a Palestinian-American professor and critic of Israel.
McCain and Palin called Rashid Khalidi a former spokesman for the Palestine Liberation Organization, a characterization that Khalidi has denied in the past. Both candidates said guests at the party made critical comments about Israel.
Khalidi is a professor of Middle East Studies at Columbia University and a longtime friend of Obama's. Khalidi has publicly criticized Israel.
On Wednesday, McCain said 1960s radical Bill Ayers had attended the same party in 2003. McCain and Palin have criticized Obama for his ties to Ayers and questioned what the videotape of the party might show.



               Let's see, how old was Barack Obama in 2003, hmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:10 PM

John McCain's ties to Rashid Khalidi

'During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank. (See grant number 5180, "West Bank: CPRS" on page 14 of this PDF.)

The relationship extends back as far as 1993, when John McCain joined IRI as chairman in January. Foreign Affairs noted in September of that year that IRI had helped fund several extensive studies in Palestine run by Khalidi's group, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of "sociopolitical attitudes."'

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:11 PM

I heard...bou I didn't want to venture there...as not to hear lame spinning...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM

I think I already posted, concerning these type activities.....you can go back to sleep, ..again...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM

If McCain's willing to give Khalidi almost a half million dollars, he must be an ok guy. Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:20 PM

I wouldn't put anything past McCain..Kissinger endorses him..Bryzinzky advised Obama.....and Bush...and Clinton...and Reagan...and Bush Sr...and Carter....and..well, you fill in the spaces...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:41 PM

Ok Amos so what is the bottom line of the information you dug up?

Did Obama and his associate Ayers, cooperate on the CAC?____________

Was it a failure? _________

Is this an preview of what Obama will do with education if he is prez? __________________

Is Bill Ayers a Marxist associated with Obama? ___________


Did the ideology of of Bill Ayers and his associate Obama feed back thru Annenberg somehow and influence McCain? _____________

Is Annenberg running for public office? _________

This is your feeble attempt at guilt by assocaition.

You have such a weak case that you need to prop it up with rhetorical name calling.

Now would you care to describe Ayres and Obama's cooperation on the Woods Fund?

"Barak Obama was the only 8 year old in the WeatherUnderground"

How old was Obama when Ayers was in Caracas calling people Comrade?

Ayers in 2006: "Despite being under constant attack from within and from abroad, the Bolivarian revolution has made astonishing strides in a brief period: from the Mission Simoncito to the Mission Robinson to the Mission Ribas to the Mission Sucre, to the Bolivarian schools and the UBV, Venezuelans have shown the world that with full participation, full inclusion, and popular empowerment, the failings of capitalist schooling can be resisted and overcome. Venezuela is a beacon to the world in its accomplishment of eliminating illiteracy in record time, and engaging virtually the entire population in the ongoing project of education."

So if Bill Ayers can do better, why did the CAC fail?

Bill Ayers, 2002 "I am as much an anarchist as a Marxist"

"The White Panther Party was a group of cultural revolutionaries mainly. They were artists and anarchists and drug, dope smokers and a really good group of people."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:03 PM

"This is your feeble attempt at guilt by assocaition."

THIS coming from YOU, Sawzaw!??

THAT's as snort!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:05 PM

Of course, we must never forget that serial killer John Wayne Gacy was a Chicago resident, a Democratic Party activist and allegedly well acquainted with Rosalyn Carter. His attorney, Sam L. Amirante, was a judge in Cook County while Senator Obama was practicing law there...how's THAT for a relationship!! Much closer and far more suspicious than Obama's (or McCain's) with Professor Ayers! Who knows what they talked about during those mysterious "recesses to the judge's chambers"?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:24 PM

So it's guilt by association???

Ya' have one guy who was 8 years old who 30 years later meets a guy who did some dumb stuff in the 60's and...

...then another guy, who in his 60's and 70's voted for the current failed policies of the Bush administartion 92% of the time???

Don't take the Wes Ginny Slide Rule to tell ya' which one is most dangerous...

But really, folks... Sawz arguments are just destractions form the real differences between Obama and his guy and really have nothing to do with this election...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:06 PM

ughh hmm(clears throat)Guilt by association??..I just posted this a short while ago..was this more than 'guilt by association..or perhaps a little more??????

Bryzinzky advised Obama.....and Bush...and Clinton...and Reagan...and Bush Sr...and Carter....and..well, you fill in the spaces...

Now let's not pass this one over, all you spinners....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:43 PM

Bryzinzky advised Obama.....and Bush...and Clinton...and Reagan...and Bush Sr...and Carter....and..well, you fill in the spaces...

Now let's not pass this one over, all you spinners...." Glutton for Insanity

Ya can't even spell 'Brezinski'; you are on a par with the Zbenew Brezinski I found a moment ago. lol

That idiot shivers in his boots as he gasps out that ZB is a member of the Bilderberg's group. What is the matter with you two? Do you really expect to be taken seriously?


"Brezinski, who stood out for his relatively hawkish views in an administration that often emphasized human rights, told the crowd that by invading Iraq the "United States has become engaged in what is essentially a colonial war in the post-colonial era." He also opined that the Iraq war "has discredited America worldwide," and warned that the conflict in Iraq might spread to Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

"Saying Obama "was not, like many others, a Johnny-come-lately" with regard to realizing that the Iraq war was a so-called "fool's enterprise," Brezinski told the members of the crowd that they had the opportunity to change the world by supporting the Illinois senator.

"In August, Brezinski supported Obama during a foreign policy spat between the Illinois senator and his chief rival, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York. In addition to advising President Carter, Brezinski also was adviser to officials in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations."

Yep, he is scary, all right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 09:19 PM

Yeah, he looks like a white haired Mr. Spock.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:54 PM

Hell, GfS, no-one denies that loose associations of millionaires and billionaires have always had (since there were such animals) great fistfuls of power and the desire to use same to their own ends, better or worse.

The issue becomes whether the government of by and for people at large allows itself to become completely co-opted by such power structures, or only somewhat.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:14 AM

Bobert, take out the ol' Wes Ginny slide rool and figger out how old Obama was when he sat on the Woods board (hint: it ain't made outa wood) with Ayers handin out $110,000 to Khalidi for the Arab American Action Network.

And how old was he when he sat on the CAC board with Ayers handin out millions for a failed social engeneering experiment in education. And $2 million to Mike Klonsky, the Marxist, Maoist Leninist leader of the New Communist Movement, who along with Ayers, Dohrn, and other radicals formed Students for a Democratic Society, formed the "October League," which later became the "Communist Party (Marxist Leninist) CP[ML]." After Mao's death, the Chinese communist leadership said CP[ML] reflected the aspirations of the proletariat and working people.

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, how many commies, socialists, radicals, Muslims and crooks does Obama associate with anyway? Every time I do a little searching another one pops up.

How can Obama be so stupid as to not know about these peoples past and distance himself?

Ayers gives him a political coming out party and he don't know Ayers?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:34 AM

So McCain gives Khalidi a half million dollars and that's ok. No problem. It's only if Obama gives Khalidi any money that it becomes a problem?

Fortunately anyone with any intelligence can see these double standards for what they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:14 AM

Bobert is good with figgerin out folks ages when such an such happened so how old are Obama's kids and Ayers kids Bobert?

David Axelrod, Obama campaign manager:

"Bill Ayers lives in his neighborhood. Their kids attend the same school," he said. "They're certainly friendly, they know each other, as anyone whose kids go to school together."

More Info

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:16 AM

Well and good. Except that Ayers--who is apparently a reformed and serious education specialist--makes not one goddamn crumb of difference to the nature, potential, merit or value of Obama. None, Nil. Ero-zay. Zilch.

Go flap your arms in some other zoo where they will believe you really are a bright yellow flamingo.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:25 AM

It was a celebration of Palestinian culture -- a night of music, dancing and a dash of politics. Local Arab Americans were bidding farewell to Rashid Khalidi, an internationally known scholar, critic of Israel and advocate for Palestinian rights, who was leaving town for a job in New York.

A special tribute came from Khalidi's friend and frequent dinner companion, the young state Sen. Barack Obama.

I wonder If McCain dines frequently with Khalidi and his wife.

I think the fact that Ayers (whom Obama claims to not associate with) and Obama jointly, gave money to Khalidi, is an important aspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:30 AM

No "off" button, I take it?

YAwn.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:41 AM

If McCain was willing to give Khalidi a half million dollars, I don't think anyone supporting McCain can say (without looking foolish) that it's not ok for Obama to have dinner with him.

And it's still a double standard to use any connections Obama has with Ayers as a way to smear him while completely ignoring McCain's connections with Ayers, and also with Oliver North, and G. Gordon Liddy...


'Does John McCain "pal around with terrorists?"

Certainly McCain's continuing "association" and relationship with the convicted Watergate burglar and domestic terrorist G. Gordon Liddy might suggest that is the case, if we are to apply the standards drawn by the McCain campaign.

In 1998, Liddy gave a fundraiser in his Scottsdale, Arizona home for McCain's senatorial re-election campaign -- the two posed for photographs together; and as recently as May, 2007, as a presidential candidate, McCain was a guest on Liddy's syndicated radio show. Inexplicably, McCain heaped praise on his host's values. During the segment, McCain said he was "proud" of Liddy, and praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." From the program:

    LIDDY: Your experience in the Hanoi Hilton is remarkable. I mean, I put in five years in a prison [for masterminding the Watergate burglary, and associated crimes], but it was here in the United States, and they didn't torture - the only torture that I had was being forced to listen to rap music from time to time.

    McCAIN: Well, you know, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of your family. I'm proud to know your son, Tom, who's a great and wonderful guy. And it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon. And congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.

Which of Liddy's "principles and philosophies" was McCain referring to? Liddy's advocacy of break-ins? Firebombings? Assassinations? Kidnappings? Taking target practice with figures nicknamed Bill and Hillary?

During the same period that Bill Ayers was a member of the Weather Underground, Gordon Liddy was making plans to firebomb a Washington think tank, assassinate a prominent journalist, undertake the Watergate burglary, break into the office of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist, and kidnap anti-war protesters at the 1972 Republican convention.

Re: Liddy's "continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great:" Did McCain mean to include Liddy's instructions to listeners of his radio show in 1994 (around the time Ayres and Obama were on a board together discussing education programs and other plots) on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents (aim for the head)?

If ATF agents attempt to curtail a citizen's gun ownership, Liddy counseled, "Well, if the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests."

More recently, Liddy explained making the Clintons objects of shooting practice: "I did relate that on the 4th of July of last year, when I and my family and some friends were out firing away at a properly-constructed rifle range and we ran out of targets, and so we - I drew some stick figure targets and I thought we ought to give them names. So I named them Bill and Hillary, thought it might improve my aim. It didn't. My aim is good anyway. Now, having said that, I accept no responsibility for somebody shooting up the White House."'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-bernstein/ayers-and-the-mccain-g-go_b_134256.html

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:20 AM

The Woods fund where Ayers is a board member:

This new Fund focused on welfare reform, affordable housing, the quality of public schools, race and class disparities in the juvenile justice system, and tax policy as a tool in reducing poverty. The Fund supported the concept of an expanding welfare state allocating ever-increasing amounts of money to the public school system, and the redistribution of wealth via taxes

A notable Woods board member is William Ayers, who in the 1960s was a member of the terrorist group Weatherman, and was a wanted fugitive for over a decade as a result of the group's bombing campaign; today Ayers is a Professor of Education at the University of Illinois. In 2002 the Woods Fund made a grant to Northwestern University Law School's Children and Family Justice Center, where Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, was employed. Barack Obama was one of Ayers' fellow Woods Fund board members at that time....

...The Woods Fund has given sizable grants to ... the Arab American Action Network; ... Trinity United Church of Christ (where Barack Obama was a congregant)... the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN);

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:30 AM

So Obama gives Khalidi money and that's ok. No problem. It's only if McCain gives Khalidi money that it becomes a problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:35 AM

I don't have a problem with either of them giving him money. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of those, including McCain and his people, who are condemning Obama for something that McCain has himself done, even more so.

People who condemn others for what they (or their candidates) are doing themselves, don't get taken seriously, and for good reason. They don't deserve to be taken seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:42 AM

On the subject of Ayers and the Wood Fund - if that one rubs off on Obama because of their association on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge board, then it also rubs off on McCain because of his association with the Annenbergs who were the ones who put Ayers on the CAC board.

That's why McCarthy was eventually discredited. Because nobody can avoid being tarred through guilt by association, including those who finger point with the most vigor.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:38 AM

I think that with all the time spent, for the Obama supporters, TYPING excuses, 'explanations' 're-clarifying' spinning, denying, and all, to the amount they seem compelled to do,(and at such great length), that if that same time was spend, practicing on your instruments, you'd all be one hell of a picker..(or keyboardist).....

This whole Obama-McCain debate, is really a waste of precious time. The two sides are both too polarized, while still serving the same purpose. The thread name is 'Obama is a socialist'...well, he is, okay? and with a Marxist slant. McCain is too, with a Bush/quasi fascist slant. I think there is enough data, clearly pointing that out. I also think, that the associations from both, have serious implications, that one should look at objectively...but when you do, and step back, and think about it, and all the wasted time and effort, with such 'fervor', you're stuck with one thing. To take a serious look, you have to 'get serious'.....and then when its all said and done, you look back, catch yourself, think, then grin, and say to yourself, 'Get Serious!'

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:53 AM

Some of us see it differently. And pointing out lies and double standards is not the same thing as making excuses.

I detect a strong bias in favor of McCain in the one who claims to be against both candidates. I don't think that person is really against both. I think they're definitely campaigning for McCain, but pretending to be against both candidates because that person thinks that by doing so they can fool us into not voting for Obama. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:44 AM

Notice: Earlier today I posted a post, that began with 'Mr. Machine,..' After re-reading it, after it was up, I thought there might be some misunderstanding in what I meant. Just in case, you took it wrong too, it was meant satirically in large portions.

Carol, No, I don't have a McCain bias,(even though Sarah is more attractive than Biden), but who listens to VP's once their in office(except Bush listening to Cheney).

No Carol, I'm really discouraged, about this election, and this country, for allowing this circus to go on, and get to this point. It has taken on a Monty Python-like parody, insulting everything our country has stood for, and all the hard working, industrious generations, of people, who lived, worked, fought and died, for us to enjoy the freedom and liberty we once had. I feel like all of their sacrifices, heritage, hopes, dreams and aspirations, for their families, and families to come, are turning to dust, in front of our eyes. I feel that the corruption, and decay of moral values, not only in the political arena, and in personal lives, is both decadent and deteriorating, as we are wildly cheering it on madly. I think this election has made a mockery of honesty, integrity morality, and decency. I think, that the most important issues of national security, and personal security have been artfully avoided, by both sides. I think the Constitution is being shredded before our eyes. I think that since Eisenhower,(at least), our nation has been more 'entertained' by so-called presidents, than led by statesmen. I think the last 20 years of the two family dynasty(Bush-Clinton era), has been a travesty, and has done unbelievable damage, from which we may never recover.

I could go on...and I'd be correct, too...but it's no use kidding ourselves, or propping up our enthusiasm. A month ago, 17% of voters could not decide...that's huge, if you think they can't just 'decide'. It's more like, deciding whether to drink poison, hang yourself, slit your wrists or shoot yourself in the head...vote for your favorite way to go...and that's the analogy of why undecideds can't decide..at this late in the game. In any way one looks at it, there is an ominous feeling of impending doom, hanging over this election, and nobody is being honest about it.

As for me?...Historically, some of the most beautiful art, has been pressed out of the souls of men during times like this, and captured in music, or in literature, so so and so forth. While, this crap has been going on, for as long as it has, there is another side of the heart, that can be expressed...and has been..but not so much in here, but in my music. Though it is performed instrumentally, the most common re-action has been the listener spacing out to some place of inner identification, while tears just fall out of their eyes, and silently roll down their faces, without shame, or control. This has been now the most common response,...and I'm sitting here(or in the studio) with this little jewel of a gift, from God, to touch people like this, and sit and wonder...why are people doing what they are doing to each other, so deliberately, hurtfully, and recklessly, when there is so much beauty inside us all we have to share?.......
Good Night, Regards
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:56 AM

I'm sorry, but I am unable to accept the claim that there's no bias toward McCain by the poster in question. All of the criticism of McCain from this poster are accompanied by a criticism of Obama. This poster never criticizes McCain independently of a criticism of Obama. But they make many, many criticisms of Obama (including many accusations that have no basis in reality) independently of any criticism of McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: goatfell
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:28 PM

An American a socialist that's like the Pope going to an Orange hall and singing the sash.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:32 PM

Obama is not a socialist in any formal sense of the word.

At best you could call him a moderate populist. He has no interest in seeing a government own the means of production, and in fact wants very much to accelerate the ownership of th emeans of production by small business owners. That is the opposite of socialism and 180 degrees out of line with Marx. So, Sawz, your reasonable sounding assertions are kind of out there in cloud-cuckoos-ville.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:02 PM

Amos,You can call him anything you want..'A Rose by any other name is still a Rose' -Shakespeare.

Carol, You mean you're soliciting even MORE criticism?? As I posted before, this WHOLE, (got that?)..WHOLE 'ELECTION' has been a rather sad(to say the least) chapter, in American history. The animosity, and divisions that it brought with it, by design, I take it, has been extremely unfortunate, and damaging.

One good thing I just heard on the news, because the economy has been so bad, the illegal Mexicans are going back home.....after, helping to wreck the economy by working tax free, and shipping the money back out of our country to Mexico.

Speaking of which, Carol, this should make you happy...When McCain .reached across the aisle, so to speak, and attempted that lame bill, to give driver's licenses, to ILLEGAL immigrants, that finished him to me, as far as I was concerned!..Now smile!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:20 PM

A driver's license means that the possessor has successfully passed written and practical examinations involving the operation of a motor vehicle - nothing more and nothing less. If the Federal government or anyone else thinks that an unforgeable national identity card or internal passport is necessary, let them submit legislation to Congress to require one. Using the first to substitute for the lack of the second only results in people driving around without passing those written and practical examinations - like the lady who rear-ended me a couple of years ago in West Albuquerque.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

IF you do not define "socialism" by the ownership of the means of production, GfS, how do you define it? You can call a pig a rose, too, but that doesnj't mean it is qualified to be Vice-President.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:54 PM

These folks who keep tossing the word "socialist" around and accusing candidates they don't like of being one should maybe read a book. Find out what a socialist really is.

Not that it would make much difference. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guerst from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:05 PM

From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:54 PM
....Find out what a socialist really is.

Not that it would make much difference. . . .

Parr for the course...Truth doesn't seem to matter in this years elections...So, i agree with you!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:11 PM

GfS--

I notice you are evading a simple question, even though you argue that the label suits Mister Obama.

Define your terms, or fold your tent, camel and all.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

You can call a pig a rose, too, but that doesnj't mean it is qualified to be Vice-President.

Look, just because Obama slipped a little in the polls, is no reason to blame his VP choice!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:27 PM

Oh, as long as 'ultimatums' are being thrown out there by Amos Lewinski I'll put it to you this way..either by Machiavellian Principle, (McCain), or mandate,(Obama), the government is, or is going to be owning everything, and we will end up being its humble servants (read:indentured). But, I guess that's ok, for all those who get their welfare checks, and pass value judgments, on everyone else. It's all headed in the same direction..as bit by bit, the Constitution is replaced piecemeal by all these 'remedial' progressions.

So, your choice, to be controlled by corrupt corporate government,..or corrupt political machine that runs a corrupt political government?? Your choice, or hop on YOUR camel!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:22 PM

""Brezinski, who stood out for his relatively hawkish views in an administration that often emphasized human rights, told the crowd that by invading Iraq the "United States has become engaged in what is essentially a colonial war in the post-colonial era." He also opined that the Iraq war "has discredited America worldwide," and warned that the conflict in Iraq might spread to Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.""

Well as far as I can see, he's one hundred percent right about all of that, so maybe it's worth consideration that he may also be dead right in supporting Obama.

As an inhabitant of a country dragged willy-nilly into this insane and illegal war, I want to see the Repubs lose so badly that it takes fifty years for the party to recover. I want exactly the same in two years time for the current dishonest, ineffectual government of my own country, for slavishly following the Shrub in his oil grabbing venture.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:10 PM

No argument there!..I wish that the one coming in, was the ONLY other option. That in itself, speaks volumes...The pendulum, of time, swings both ways, whether anyone 'controls' it or not. I pray that the pendulum does not swing out of control..either way!! Damage on both,the furthest apex,..correction..not over-compensation.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 12:12 AM

"People who condemn others for what they (or their candidates) are doing themselves,"

So McCain dined with Khalidi and his wife and shot the shit regularly?

Ayers Held a party for McCain's political coming out?

If McCain is all that radical why not vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 12:38 AM

So, now it appears,..and shown on the news, that Ayers writes a book, and one of the people who it is dedicated to, is Sirhan Sirhan. Book's name is 'Prairie Fire:.....'

Another thing to add to the list of things that might, and should give pause, to truly look into just how close these two were. To merely dismiss it is absolute stupid boneheadedness. Robert Kennedy was one of America's best, in the last 50 years!

No spin needed....just rather have the truth of their relationship.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 12:40 AM

Looking back through the ardent protests Obama is not a socialist and that we need socialism . I am wonereing then why vote for Obama if he is not what is needed>

"The rich have been screwing the poor for centuries. That's how they got rich in the first place!"

Obama got rich by screwing the poor so why vote for him?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:12 AM

From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 12:40 AM

Looking back through the ardent protests that Obama is not a socialist, and yet we need socialism, I am wondering then, why vote for Obama if he is not what is needed?

Great point Sawzaw!!!!

If socialism is what everybody wants...why vote for someone who claims he isn't one, denounces it, and all his past influences to that?? Who's got it wrong here????

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:14 AM

Like I said, giving him almost a half million dollars trumps having dinner with Khalidi any day. McCain gave him almost a half million dollars. Obama gave him a few tens of thousands of dollars and had dinner with him. McCain's a lot deeper in the hole with Khalidi than Obama is by a long way.

Ayers may not have held a party for McCain's political coming out, but the terrorist, G Gordon Liddy, did hold a fund raising event for McCain's Senate campaign.

So it is a fact that McCain is pointing fingers at Obama for stuff he has done himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:24 AM

Still no answer to the question!!!!!

Perhaps it is found in Phil Ochs song 'Love me, I'm a Liberal'



"Love Me, I'm a Liberal"
       Ochs Phil

Album: There But for Fortune
        
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:25 AM

500!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:40 AM

WHo's got it wrong is the asinine proponents of the attack line. No-one said socialism is what the country needs, nor does Obama offer it. Social awareness, social compassion, better social methods, sure. That doesn't make him a socialist, and you guys are just going barmy with your hyper-associating things. Cut it out.

A