42 days to no smoking (UK)

Subject: 42 days to no smoking
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 07 - 03:47 PM

Just 42 days now before we can all breath in restaurants, folk clubs, theatres etc!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking
From: GUEST,Spidey Bobe
Date: 20 May 07 - 03:48 PM

Hooraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking
From: Peace
Date: 20 May 07 - 03:49 PM

I don't know where you are, but your place of residence is really behind the times. We've had that here for years now.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking
From: mick p r.m s.c
Date: 20 May 07 - 04:03 PM

HOORAYYYYYYYY, cant wait for all that clean air. Just hope that all those polluters dont give up altogether. My taxes are high enough now, let alone the government trying to get back the millions of £s they get from these polluters.


                         ROLL ON THE FIRST OF JULY

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 May 07 - 04:13 PM

Must be in the U.K.
Take it from a smoker, you'll actually be glad of it when it comes.
Now, off to the BS threads with yous!

Jim

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 20 May 07 - 04:37 PM

This thread is an example of why guest started threads are bad news. The first two posts are both from Guests, and probably both the same Guest too.
Please delete this, the subject already has threads about it which are current, so this one is superfluous.
BNV

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 20 May 07 - 04:58 PM

Bad news - as a non guest (unlike Big Norman Voice) I see nothing wrong with the thread. English pubs, clubs and bars stink - the sooner they lose the disgusting smell of cheap fags the better. I may even be tempted to go back and go to a few sessions and singarounds.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking
From: JennyO
Date: 20 May 07 - 10:54 PM

Dare I suggest that (in the UK) be added to the thread title? I'm sure the thread originator wouldn't mind - unless he/she is a certain former mudcatter whose name shall not be mentioned ;-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:20 AM

GUEST, we don't breath, we breathe.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:30 AM

we in Scotland have had for a while now.

now no more coughing and breathing in fag smoke, great as I'm an asthmatic and a folksinger as well

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: ossonflags
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:35 AM

As they say in Ireland, "let's go inside for a breath of fresh air"

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 May 07 - 05:58 PM

UK??
As guest above says, we've had the ban in Scotland for over a year now, and it's also already in force in Wales, and bl##dy great it is too!
No more having to wash your hair and put all your clothes in the washing machine after a night out.
The only down-side I can see (and I wouldn't turn the clock or the law back) is that on a nice afternoon, the pub gardens will be full of smokers.
Some pubs have seen their takings go UP (contrary to the doom and gloom predictions of the licensees and anti-ban brigade), as the non-smokers now find it possible to go to a pub in comfort.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Donuel
Date: 21 May 07 - 09:11 PM

Nicorette peppermint is good even for the most addicted smoker.

If you ate 40 a day however your tummy would complain.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 May 07 - 09:16 PM

Could a helpful clone amend this thread title please? It is now less than 42 days to go...

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Crane Driver
Date: 22 May 07 - 04:13 AM

Yes, 'UK' now in the title isn't accurate either, it's only England that lags behind on this. We've been 'smoke-free' since April 2nd in Wales, and it's amazing how fast you get used to it. Going to festivals in England now, it's really strange to see people still lighting up in pubs. We'll be glad when July comes!

Andrew

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: guitar
Date: 22 May 07 - 05:30 AM

Smoke! Smoke! Smoke!(That Cigarette)
Now I'm a fellow with a heart of gold
And the ways of a gentleman I've been told
Kind-of-a-guy that wouldn't even harm a flea

But if me and a certain character met
The guy that invented that cigarette
I'd murder that son-of-a gun in the first degree

It ain't cuz I don't smoke 'em myself
and i don't reckon that it'll hinder your health
I smoked 'em all my life and I ain't dead yet

But nicotine slaves are all the same
at a pettin' party or a poker game
Everything gotta stop while they have a cigarette

CHORUS

Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette
Puff, puff, puff until you smoke yourself to death.

Tell St. Peter at the Golden Gate
That you hate to make him wait,
But you just gotta have another cigarette.

In a game of chance the other night
Old dame fortune was good and right
The kings and queens they kept on comin' around

Aw, I was hittin' em good and bettin' 'em high
But my bluff didn't work on a certain guy
He kept callin' and layin' his money down

See, he'd raise me then I'd raise him
and I'd say to him buddy ya gotta sink or swim
Finally called me but didn't raise the bet!

--Hmmph! I said Aces Full Pal -- I got you!
He said, "I'll pay up in a minute or two
But right now, i just gotta have another cigarette."

CHORUS

Now the other night I had a date
with the cutest little gal in any state
A high-bred, uptown, fancy little dame

She said she loved me and it seemd to me
That things were sorta like they oughtta be
So hand in hand we strolled down lovers lane

She was a long way from a chunk of ice
And our pettin' party was goin' real nice
And I got an idea I might have been there yet

So I give her a kiss and a little squeeze
Then she said, "Travis, Excuse me Please
But I just gotta have a cigarette."

CHORUS

ps
This is for all the smokers in the world

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: guitar
Date: 22 May 07 - 05:31 AM

1947: 'SMOKE! SMOKE! SMOKE! (THAT CIGARETTE)'


Written by Merle Travis for Tex Williams; the release not only saved Tex Williams' waning career, but also became Capitol Records' first million-seller. Travis later released his own version. These two are the most commonly heard versions, although Phil Harris also had a hit with the song.


From the New York Times, Oct. 13, 1985
:

Country-western songwriter and entertainer Sollie "Tex" Williams, a heavy smoker best known for his tune, "Smoke, Smoke, Smoke That Cigarette," died after a year-long battle with cancer, his daughter said. . . . her father, who was diagnosed a year ago as having cancer, smoked two packs of cigarettes a day, dropping to about a pack a day before he died. "He tried to quit, but he couldn't," she said.
Smoke! Smoke! Smoke!(That Cigarette)
Now I'm a fellow with a heart of gold
And the ways of a gentleman I've been told
Kind-of-a-guy that wouldn't even harm a flea

But if me and a certain character met
The guy that invented that cigarette
I'd murder that son-of-a gun in the first degree

It ain't cuz I don't smoke 'em myself
and i don't reckon that it'll hinder your health
I smoked 'em all my life and I ain't dead yet

But nicotine slaves are all the same
at a pettin' party or a poker game
Everything gotta stop while they have a cigarette

CHORUS

Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette
Puff, puff, puff until you smoke yourself to death.

Tell St. Peter at the Golden Gate
That you hate to make him wait,
But you just gotta have another cigarette.

In a game of chance the other night
Old dame fortune was good and right
The kings and queens they kept on comin' around

Aw, I was hittin' em good and bettin' 'em high
But my bluff didn't work on a certain guy
He kept callin' and layin' his money down

See, he'd raise me then I'd raise him
and I'd say to him buddy ya gotta sink or swim
Finally called me but didn't raise the bet!

--Hmmph! I said Aces Full Pal -- I got you!
He said, "I'll pay up in a minute or two
But right now, i just gotta have another cigarette."

CHORUS

Now the other night I had a date
with the cutest little gal in any state
A high-bred, uptown, fancy little dame

She said she loved me and it seemd to me
That things were sorta like they oughtta be
So hand in hand we strolled down lovers lane

She was a long way from a chunk of ice
And our pettin' party was goin' real nice
And I got an idea I might have been there yet

So I give her a kiss and a little squeeze
Then she said, "Travis, Excuse me Please
But I just gotta have a cigarette."

CHORUS

I got this from the website about tobacco

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 May 07 - 01:49 PM

No butts about it!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Shaneo
Date: 22 May 07 - 02:01 PM

In Ireland from the end of May cigarettes may only be sold in packs of 20 , no more ten fags , they say it's to stop the young people smoking , but being the cynic I am , I say it's to get more tax into the exchequer.
We have got used to the ban here in Ireland , and would not even think about lighting up in a pud/restaurant/shop/factory/office/lorry/taxi/bus/work car/hospital/cinema/,,,,,,,,,,,

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 07 - 03:10 PM

Shaneo:
Presumably the same excuse was given when they stopped selling packets of five (lo these may moons agone!)
Still, when I was in High School (mid 60s) one newsagent/tobacconist local to the school would still sell a single cigarette with three matches in a paper wrap. Ah, happy days!

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 May 07 - 07:53 PM

I say it's to get more tax into the exchequer.

But why should the tax take be any different if the ciggies are sold in 20s rather than in tens? Unless the suggestion is that somehow this would increase the number of cigarettes that were bought - but I'd have thought it'd be more likely to work the other way round.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: guitar
Date: 23 May 07 - 01:07 PM

it's great because of people like me who suffer from Asthma cough cough, it's great not having to cough bits of lung up

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 07 - 01:39 PM

Got an e-mail at work yesterday to say no more smoking breaks from reading the e-mail. They still allow people to wander about the site on their mobiles - when are they going to put some restrictions on them!
I used to go out once(to a designated area well away from anyone) in the morning lunchtime and mid afternoon and cut my lunch time in half to more than make up for the time.

Not a word was spoken about this, no consultation. I think it is unfair.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Shaneo
Date: 23 May 07 - 01:58 PM

The more you buy , the more you smoke.

Watch out UK . 400 pubs closed in the last year alone in Ireland.
The non smokers came up with all kind of nonsense in Ireland before the ban was intriduced , no more smell clothes-more people will go to the pub-smokers will give up the smokes ,and so on.

All a load of bull , much less are going to the pubs , that's why they are closing

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 24 May 07 - 03:49 AM

Sorry, Shaneo, you must have mistaken me for someone who gives a shit. If the only reason a pub stays open is so that people can kill themselves there, tough. The drink-drive laws did more to kill pubs - particularly rural pubs - than any smoking ban ever will. Smokers are a minority. A noisome, unpleasant and vocal minority, but they are declining all the time. Get used to it.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 07 - 03:55 AM

Pubs have been closing at a rate of over 50 a month for a long time here, Shaneo. See this article if you don't believe me. The smoking ban will make very little difference to the rate at which pubs are closing.

As I said on another thread, if smokers would have been sensible and restricted their activities in the first place the ban would have been unnecessary.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 May 07 - 08:07 PM

10 a day or 20 a day?
If you can only buy them in 20s, seems to me it's more likely people will smoke thro' the whole 20 in a day, whereas if they'd only bought 10, they might just manage to spin them out till next morning: so this idea is a double-edged sword! (BMA take note of one of your own members' opinions, since you have also promoted this idea of 20s only discouraging youngsters!)
TB

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 25 May 07 - 03:11 PM

37 days - bring it on

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 May 07 - 08:02 AM

Yup.

Went to a 'non-smoking' folk club recently in the upstairs room of a pub. Came home stinking like an ash-tray, and I coughed like a broken-down old piss-mare for the next three days.

Smoke knows no boundaries, but from 1/7, those dirty sods will know theirs. There is a God!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: guitar
Date: 26 May 07 - 10:35 AM

Willie Sinclair MC for the Irvine folk club says right that is the intervial and now you can go out for some fresh air if you smoke

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Diva
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 04:45 PM

Can't wait, we were going for tea in the Sportsman in Carlisle today and I couldn't cope with the single smoker. So we went to the Greek resturant instead and had a lovely smoke free tea. You'll soon get used to it honest

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 05:10 PM

>>42 days to no smoking (UK)<<

Should be

24 days to no smoking (UK)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Lanfranc
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:12 PM

I have smoked for most of the past 45 years, although for the last 15 or so of them I only smoked cigars. In January this year, after smoking a selection of fine Havanas that my daughter brought me back from her holiday in Cuba, I gave up.

I resent having to do so, because I genuinely enjoyed my cigars, but any pleasure I might have derived was eventually eroded by the neurotic posturing of non-smokers (or, worse, ex-smokers) and the reduction in the number of places where one could smoke.

The legislation in the UK, as elsewhere, is unduly redolent of the Nanny State because, as far as I can tell, even if you wanted to designate a bar or whatever as a "smoke-easy" just for those who wish to smoke cigars, a pipe or even cigarettes, you cannot.

Long ago I predicted that when the killjoy brigade had finished with smokers, they would start applying similar sanctions to the drinkers of anything alcoholic, and it has started! The pretext is the suppression of "binge drinking", but I suspect that before long even the moderate enjoyment of wine and spirits will be curtailed by legislation.

A pox on the Nanny State and all its apologists! We may not live any longer once everything enjoyable has been legislated away, but it will certainly make life seem interminable.

Alan

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: eddie1
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:44 PM

I've been off the net for a couple of weeks so only found this thread today.
Saw an interesting article in a newspaper a few weeks ago to the effect that a chain of discos and clubs in Scotland and Wales as well as England. have had to start spraying rose water as they've realised the smell of cigarettes hid the smell of BO from lots of sweaty dancers!
Ah well, you can't have evrything.

Eddie

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 03:52 AM

Who will you Nannys target next?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 04:30 AM

I for one would like to see a real clampdown on all these offensive yobo's/asbo's who are making our society a misery.

Slap em all in boot camps or something like that.

Life would be so much more enjoyable.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 04:46 AM

"Who will you Nannys target next?"

Well, seeing as we've stopped smokers attempting to give other people cancer (presumably because they don't give a toss about anyone else in the rooms they pollute), I vote for legislation banning the use of hydrogenated fats in food which harm (mainly unsuspecting people) through raised cholesterol levels and contribute to subsequent heart problems.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 04:53 AM

I have said many times in this thread that had it not been for 'militant' smokers, or more likely the tobacco companies, who insisted on the right to smoke whenever and wherever they please we would not have been in this situation. Go in many old pubs etc and you will see that they have a 'smoking room' - Our folk club is in one! My Grandad remembered the days where you went into a seperate room to smoke up to and after WW1. Had that have continued the ban would not have been necessary but after years of forcing the people who do not smoke to breath in the fumes all you are seeing is a 'backlash'. Beside which I think you will find that smokers are now in a minority and for the minority to dictate what the majority does is rather unfair don't you think?

I am an ex-smoker btw but I am far from 'anti'. In our club room many people smoke and I can honestly say that it very rarely affects me in any way. I lost my sense of smell years ago so I don't even notice that! I would have been more than happy to have some premises, or seperate parts of premises, set aside for smoking but because no-one seemed to be willing to make that compromise I will support the ban. Within a two mile radius of where I live there must be over 20 pubs clubs and bars. Not a single one of them had a no smoking area. Most of them had a sticker, provided by the tobacco companies, stating 'Smoking Policy - Smoking allowed everywhere on these premises'. There was not a single place where I could take my wife, who IS seriously affected by smoke, for a drink within walking distance. Sorry but if smokers want to take the hard line then they have to expect a hard-line response.

As to the 'Nanny State' and 'Nazi' comments that have been passed in the thread. Fair enough. Those are your views. But if you don't want any state intervention at all would you be happy for people to drive with no insurance? How about opening your windows so those that enjoy burglary can act unimpeded? Paedophiles believe that their pastime is enjoyable. And it kills far fewer people than tobacco smoke ever did. Should we get rid of legislation against that as well? Cock fighting? Bear Baiting? I strongly suspect that you enjoy the benefits of legislation created by our 'Nazi Nannies'. Until it impinges on your own little pleasures that is.

Cheers

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 06:18 AM

Hit the nail on the head there Dave - the state should legistlate in matters of public health etc, but confusing anti-smoking laws with the overkill survellience system we all now live under and tracking of our movements and consumerist choices are different things and should not be confused.

As it happens, I enjoy a cigar every couple of weeks, and I go outside to smoke where I am not endangerng other people, and I am respecing their right to breathe pollutant free air.

It's all about respect.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:05 AM

"But why should the tax take be any different if the ciggies are sold in 20s rather than in tens?"

Spot on McGrath! In point of fact packets of ten used to cost anything up to five pence more than half the cost of a packet of twenty.

This was due to the extra packaging material used (so they said), but I think greed had summat to do with it..

The tax, I believe, was calculated on the weight of tobacco, so presumably no difference.

So they might be telling the truth about putting youngsters off.

BUT I wouldn't bet on it!

Don T.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:35 AM

When I was a lad there was a very nice (so we thought at the time) lady shopkeeper used to sell us a single cig and a couple of matches in a paper bag for 3d. The cig was always a number 6 if you wanted filtered or a woodbine if not. Now. 10 woodies were 1/10 and 10 number 6 were, I think, 1/9. No idea how much 20's were as they were a financial impossibilty! Thinking about it years later she made a fortune out of schoolkids - 3d a cig makes it 2/6 for 10! so she made at least 9d extra on every packet - probably more if she split up 20s.

Eeeeee, them were the days. Why does the bloody government have to intervene and spoil all our fun.

Cough, cough...

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:42 AM

We must be the same age Dave. I have a similar person to thank for my addiction. There was a well worn path from our school to her wee shop.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:29 PM

Gold leaf 10s were my smake of choice in my teenage years.

Interstingly enough, I think the ban is already starting to bite. In the pub where we play our session every other week I asked for a cheapo cigar (Castella) from the tin behind the bar, which I intended to go outside to smoke. The landlord said he had none left, and it had take ages to sell that tin as people were already smoking less.

I can't wait for me first smoke-free pickled egg.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Rumncoke
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 06:37 PM

I remember seeing my Mum crying because, despite him getting 200 cigarettes in the groceries every week, my Dad had taken the last of the money from her purse to buy more, and we had nothing to eat.

Dad was invalided from work because he could not have the operation to improve the blood flow to his feet until he stopped smoking, and he would not - even when warned that any injury to a foot or lower leg would most likely result in amptation

Towards the end of his life, when living alone, he had to either stop smoking or breathing - he opted for the former, but only after he had collapsed several times. His health improved dramatically.

He told me he had never had so much money in his life before, and he mourned for the money he'd wasted, all the things he could have done for his family - I never told him what I thought of him.

Anything which is going to cut down on the dreadful drain on family income cigarettes represent has to be a good thing. Some families where money flows out on drink as well must be pushed below the poverty line by the selfishness of the adults indulging themselves at the expense of their children's well being.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 07:17 PM

And me Jim Lad. Our local shop would sell them singly.

I also remember being able to buy Domino Cigarettes, four in a packet. I'm sure the packet was open ended and had domino spots on the back. Anyone else remember those?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 04:14 AM

I don't remember packets of 4 but packets of 5 Woodbines or 5 Park Drive were a common sight near us.

Stigweard, where do you get the smoked pickled eggs? I must try one:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:51 AM

"Stigweard, where do you get the smoked pickled eggs? I must try one:-)"

Now there's a thought . . .

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 03:10 AM

I'm always saddened at the sight, at our local supermarkets, of people who look as poor as church mice (or, as me old mum used to say, "haven't got a ha'penny to scratch their arses with"), bags full of cheap-range cans and packets and sliced loaves of the cheapest white bread, no fresh food at all, but spending sixty quid at the fag counter.

Several smokers have told me how it's outrageous me spending £1,500 on a guitar. I told them it's about the same as, or less than, they spend in a year on coffin-nails.

Priorities!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 06:14 PM

Senior Service were my first, sold singly by the corner shop near my school.

Anyone remember "Joysticks"? They came in packets of five, about six inches long, and rough as a bag of gravel, but they were dirt cheap, and lasted forever.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:00 PM

"I remember seeing my Mum crying because, despite him getting 200 cigarettes in the groceries every week, my Dad had taken the last of the money from her purse to buy more, and we had nothing to eat."

Sadly I know that feeling although it was alcohol that was the inspiration in my case.


Someone who cries occaisionally

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:04 PM

I'm glad I never got hooked on smokes.
I remember visiting my parents when I was in college and
an old friend of the family was also at the house. I mentioned,
"maybe I should start smoking" (this was about 1971).
My parents friend said, "If we had a nickel for every cigarette
I smoked and your dad smoked, we could pay for your four
years of college". I never considered it again.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Sooz
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:01 AM

3 weeks today - I'm so looking forward to it!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:26 AM

Me too Sooz. Might even start going in the Brewers on Sunday nights again. Mmmmm, maybe not!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:27 PM

21 now ¦¬]
G.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: vectis
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:33 AM

20 and counting

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Moses
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:25 AM

At the pub last night I witnessed three nicely dressed well behaved youngsters (20 somethings) approach the bar and light up within six feet of the evening's guitarist-singer. I'm sure they had no idea the effect they had on his well-being and if gently asked they probably would have moved away.

As it was, I didn't stop to find out, I was about to leave anyway and the smoke only hastened my departure by about 5 minutes.

The point being that from 1st July this shouldn't happen. Last night's youngsters didn't do anything they were not permitted by law to do but they did cause offense to those like me who are sensitive to smoke.

The ban will not stop smokers who really want to from smoking, it will just make life a bit more pleasant for the rest of us and may, just, encourage one or two smokers to smoke a bit less.

Christine

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:25 PM

Tobacco is a harder habit to break than cocaine addiction. Or heroin. This has been amply documented by medical studies.

State-sponsored support of tobacco is tatamount to legalizing drug addiction.

Smokers who are in a state of denial or addiction are not in a position to defend their bad habits when it impinges on thre rights of others to not have to breathe their second hand smoke. I'm glad the UK finally woke up on this issue and wish that the US would follow suit.

Fat chance, though because Bush and his cronies are not only tied into oil but also the tobacco industry.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 09:31 PM

Stringsinger-That's not quite true.
The US has about 20 states that are "smoke-free" in public places. Minnesota,(where I live) will become smoke free October 1.

Rustic

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 04:24 AM

"Tobacco is a harder habit to break than cocaine addiction. Or heroin. This has been amply documented by medical studies"

Fancy citing the papers resulting from these studies?

19 to go!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 04:51 AM

From web site of:-
Minnesota University,

Tobacco is as addictive as heroin (as a mood & behavior altering agent).

Nicotine is:
1000 X more potent than alcohol
10-100 X more potent than barbiturates
5-10 X more potent than cocaine or morphine
A 1-2 pack per day smoker takes 200-400 hits daily for years. This constant intake of a fast acting drug (which affects mood, concentration & performance).. eventually produces dependence.

Pressures to relapse are both behaviorally & pharmacologically triggered.

Quitting involves a significantly serious psychological loss... a serious life style change.

Will that do you, if not then Google for it there are 100 of papers on the subject.

Oh, by the way, it's started already, one long standing folk club has been told to leave, as the room is being converted into a pool room to try and get it used 7 nights a week due to the smoking ban!
Watch this space!
Skipy



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Possible withdrawal symptoms (after stopping tobacco use):


Irritability, anger, hostility, anxiety, nervousness, panic, poor concentration, disorientation, lightheadedness, sleep disturbances, constipation, mouth ulcers, dry mouth, sore throat-gums- or tongue, pain in limbs, sweating, depression, fatigue, fearfulness, sense of loss, craving tobacco, hunger, and coughing (body getting rid of the mucus clogging the lungs).

Symptoms may last from a few weeks to several months. After withdrawal subsides... urges for nicotine (for the effects of the drug) occur in response to all kinds of cues to smoke or chew.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 05:32 AM

Oh, by the way, it's started already, one long standing folk club has been told to leave, as the room is being converted into a pool room to try and get it used 7 nights a week due to the smoking ban!

So, people who play pool don't smoke? People in folk clubs drink enough in one night to keep the landlord happy for the other 6? To keep folk clubs going we need to smoke? Where is this 'long standing folk club'? The landlord would have been quite happy to leave the room idle for 6 days as long as people smoked? What, exactlty, is your point?

Sorry, Skipy. Nice try but no cigar. (I guess you DO smoke and want that cigar don't you?) I suggest you show the landlord in question this CAMRA survey suggesting that pubs are going to get busier after July 1st.

It'll be interesting to see what argument makes less sense though. Keep 'em coming:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 05:40 AM

I've just noticed that in the survey the highest proportion of smokers is amongst lager and alcopop drinkers! If there is any change in the type of people that go in pubs, a change from alcopop kiddies and lager louts to big bellied bearded real ale drinkers can only be a move in the right direction can't it:-)

Dave "5 bellies" Polshaw

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 06:14 AM

Calm down Dave!
I am not prepared to say which folk club it is as I am not a member, there are plenty of catters who are, so I will leave it to one of them to say. (I may even give one of them a nudge to the thread).
Spent 1/2 an hour playing with google to see the effects of the ban!
Oh! & just for referance Mrs Skipy is in the licensing trade & has been for the past 17+ years, so we are up to speed on this one!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 07:39 AM

Spent 1/2 an hour playing with google to see the effects of the ban!

So the ban is already in effect near you? Are you in Wales, Scotland or Ireland? Funny, I always thought you were in England where the ban is not in effect until the 1st of July. Does your google button have a pre-cognitive function that the rest of the world lacks? Wonder how you can 'see the effects of the ban' otherwise? ;-)

The link I posted was from a survey by CAMRA, the worlds most effective consumer rights organisation. The results of the survey are alo posted, undisputed, in the ASH (pro-smoking) newsletter. CAMRA had been previously worried about the effects of the ban but this latest survey (February 2007) has laid those fears to rest. Find as many links as you like and I am pretty sure that an extra 1/2 hour spent on google would find you as many links from the opposing view.

For the record, I am perfectly calm and very relaxed thank you. But then again I don't need to alter my habits in any way in a couple of weeks. Do you by any chance? Do the facts you posted about the addictive effects of nicotine in any way cloud your judgement? Maybe having 17 years experience in the licensing trade realy does qualify someone to decide government policy but it doesn't make your arguments any clearer.

One final point - The is not going to be a 'smoking ban'. You are still allowed to smoke in your own home and in specialy designated areas. What is the big deal?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 07:56 AM

Alan, who is telling you that you can't smoke your cigars?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:17 AM

Dave,
The results for USA, Canada, Ireland & Scotland are out there for you to read, IT WILL be the same here!
I am not up for an arguement on this, so lets wait & see.
Just remember when affects YOU & it will, to mumble to yourself "that little shit Skipy was right".
Before you ask how can it affect me, I am a non smoker! It will cause the closure of pubs, clubs and assorted venues where music is played. It will change the attitude of Landlords causing rooms that where used for singing once a week / month to take on other full time usages in an attempt to get more trade to replace the smokers.
I know one pub where that has happened already. I fear for one of the 2 pubs in my village, I don't think that I will have a singaround venue for my festival in 2008. The pub in question is the only place in my village where the Morris can dance which, they currently do 4 times a year, followed by a music session.
I am friendly with another Landlord in another village, nearby, who is spending every spare minute in the day setting up an ebay company as he KNOWS he will not survive it. There is a singaround there once a month + 4 morris visits a year followed by music. His is the only pub in his village!
That's just the effect on 2 villages!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:35 AM

Skipy - The Minnesota Site was good. Lots of good information there.

Well, seeing as I gave up smoking ciggies years ago, at least I know I have the willpower to be able to get off the skag.

"Irritability, anger, hostility, anxiety, nervousness, panic, poor concentration, disorientation, lightheadedness, sleep disturbances, constipation, mouth ulcers, dry mouth, sore throat-gums- or tongue, pain in limbs, sweating, depression, fatigue, fearfulness, sense of loss, craving tobacco, hunger, and coughing (body getting rid of the mucus clogging the lungs)."

So that's why I'm a consantly tired, fat miserable bastard.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:50 AM

I have said before in this very thread that pubs are closing at a rate of 50 a month anyway. The ones most affected are village pubs like the ones in your examples but urban ones are dissapearing alarmingly too. The reasons range from the availability of cheaper booze elsewhere to the effectiveness of the drink driving campaign. Most people who have stopped going in pubs however, if you would care to use google one more, do not go to pubs because they believe that they are no longer pleasant places to be in. They are going to restaurants, cafes and various other places as well as staying at home. If the landlords and breweries want to blame the smoking 'ban' (which as I said is NOT a ban but a restriction) for their own inadequacies then that is their prerogative but please don't expect everyone to swallow that yarn.

The latest CAMRA survey is predicting that an extra 7 million - yes that is 7,000,000 - people will visit pubs due to the 'ban'. Look at this recent article from an independant source (Money Week) for one view of many that refutes your assertion that it has had a bad effect elsewhere. Blaming someone else, particularly the government, is the easy option but not I'm afraid, always the right one.

An apology though - I listed ASH as pro when it should have of course been anti-smoking. Sorry for any confusion and for being a pillock over preaf rooding.

As to arguing and mumbling that you were right. Firstly, I would never mumble you were right. If you were and it did indeed prove to be the complete disaster you predict I will not mumble. I will sing it from the top of blackpool tower where I shall also be showing my arse. You are of course quite right that we should not be arguing. You should be shouting at the people who want to blame anyone and anything else for their failures rather than admitting that they could, just maybe, have run their pubs a bit better.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Uncleboko
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 10:09 AM

In Geneva last Saturday, I saw an eastern european looking lady with a young baby begging outside the main station - sitting on the ground of course. About 1 hour later I saw her again, lurching along the road, with a cigarette in her mouth and blowing smoke at her baby. Interesting.......

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 07:02 PM

..more pubs are closing..

.. because the land they are built on

is more valuable to profiteering landowners

for development into tower block luxury apartments..



.. just lost one of the last of our locals with a decent sized beer garden..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:47 AM

Aye - sadly true as well, Punkfolkrocker. And they still keep building new estates with no pubs, shops or schools:-( Wonder what they think people do in their spare time?

The latest conspiracy theory I heard was that the Government had introduced the smoking ban to make sure that pubs closed so property developers could have the land. I'd love to see the battle between the tocacco companies and the property developers. With a bit of luck they would kill each other off!

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:56 AM

Dave, get your own latest conspiracy theory! That one is mine, as stated on the other smoking ban thread. This is all about brown land, not about health.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 05:58 AM

I thought it might be, skipy:-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 01:59 PM

There are two pubs in my village, almost facing each other. Both are non-smoking and have been for years. Each seems to be surviving without any problem and make a good deal of their money by serving meals in a smoke-free atmosphere.

DC

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 02:54 PM

Just saw a parent driving their son to school today. The parent was smoking with the windows up.
I felt like getting out my car and whopping the parent, for their lack of consideration for their son.
Disgraceful.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:37 PM

Actually Villan, you are the one in the wrong here, he/she was not breaking the law, so your urge to use violence is wrong.
Just for the record, we do not smoke in the cars, even on long journies to festivals if we have the kids with us.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: villandeleted
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:41 PM

>>if we have the kids with us<<

Exactly skipy. Of course I wouldn't have done anything,I just felt very sorry for the lad.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:01 PM

Point taken mate, "felt like" & "doing" are poles apart.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:57 AM

Oops I just realised I didn't post as The Villan.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:00 AM

It's o/k, I worked that out.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:13 AM

Skipy,

From 12 June. 9:17AM. Before you ask how can it affect me, I am a non smoker!

From 13 June. 3:37PM. Just for the record, we do not smoke in the cars

Can you clear up the obvious discrepacy for me?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:46 AM

Sorry mate, maybe I worded it wrong, the first statement was surposed to you saying it.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:01 AM

Thanks skipy - I am easily confused. Specialy later in the week! I take it you are a smoker then?

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:13 AM

Just as a point of trivia. I am told there is an TV advert with a bloke walking through a smoky pub pointing out that England will become smoke -free zone.

The actor who does this is David Kennedy - Peter Kennedy's step son.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:40 AM

Yes Dave I am, and the only thing stopping me giving up is that I will not be seen to give up due to the errosion of my freedoms!
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: villandeleted
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:50 AM

Give up for your health Skipy, not becuase of rules and regulations.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:44 AM

Don't believe you Skipy. Smokers just say that to cover for the fact they are addicted. You had plenty of opportunity to give up before a no smoking ban was proposed, now all of a sudden you won't give up because of the no smoking ban.

Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I say this Skipy, not out of a wish to condemn, but out of a concern for your health.

P.S. My 24 year old son took the same line. Thankfully he has now given up, hope he continues.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:49 AM

Sorry, Skipy - You have lost me again:-(

The smoking ban is responsible for you not giving up even though you have had years to give up prior to the smoking ban.

The smoking ban is responsible for pubs closing even though pubs have been closing at a rate of 50 a month for years.

The smoking ban has been introduced to ensure that pubs will close for property redevolpment even though our countryside and town centres have been being gutted for years.

The smoking ban is to make money for the government out of property development even though the revenue from the tobacco industry has always outweighed any taxes raised on property.

I am not getting at you, honest, but can you not see that you seem to be putting an awful lot at the door of the ban? Even though it is not a ban at all. I am sure this is not the case but what is coming across is that you have decided that the so called ban will cause no end of problems whereas the major problem it is causing is nothing but a very slight restriction of your anti-social habit.

Only an observation and only my opinion of course and I agree wholeheartedly about errosion of freedoms. But why should your freedom to smoke where you like remove my freedom to go into pubs and clubs without breathing your poisonous waste products?


Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:05 AM

You certainly have a freedon to avoid smoke, I could not argee more!
However landlords should have been allowed to designate certain rooms for smokers if they wish & have other rooms smoke free. Also where a landlords future is under threat because a high % of his cliental are smokers then the choice should have been up to him.
Oh! by the way I gave up smoking once - for 11 years!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: villandeleted
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:24 AM

Silly bugger Skipy, why ever did you start again?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:34 AM

There was a report on this mornings television news, about a group of doctors who are pressing the Government to prosecute the parents of fat kids for neglect/abuse. I can't wait! At last, another section of society for the Nanny's to focus on away from smoking/car owning taxpayers such as myself.
ps: according to Radio 2 yesterday, the next subsection of motorists to be penalised are Women who drive in "inappropriate shoes" ie high heels. Go Nanny's, Go!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:49 AM

However landlords should have been allowed to designate certain rooms for smokers if they wish & have other rooms smoke free.

Aaaarrrggghhhh! That is one of the major points I have been making all along! Landlords and breweries have had this choice for many, many years and yet they chose not to. If the majority had been sensible and designated smoking and non-smoking rooms there may have been no need for legislation in the first place. But they didn't. They would not invest in the air filtration required. They were not interested in the long term benefits to everyone but only short term profits. And now it is not their fault, but the nanny governments? Pure fantasy and blame shifting by the licensed trade. They have no-one to blame but themselves.

I'll add my voice to those encouraging you to stop as well. I gave up more than 15 years ago and then, while working long term in Belgium where smoking seemed to be compulsory, I started again. Got back here and stopped again - 10 years ago or so.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:52 AM

Ted, what the **** has that got to do with restricting where people can smoke? I have seen nothing from people against that ban but red herrings and, if you'll excuse the expression, smoke and mirrors.

D.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Choked
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:37 AM

"Yes Dave I am, and the only thing stopping me giving up is that I will not be seen to give up due to the errosion of my freedoms!
Regards Skipy"

..and the only thing stopping me smacking pathetic whinging selfish public smokers in the mouth
is
I will not be seen to give up my self control due to the erosion of my lungs and provocation in the face of such sheer malignant stupidity

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Crane Driver
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:37 AM

Whether or not our local pub closes is to an extent up to us - use it or lose it. Like it or not, the restriction on smoking indoors is coming (has come already here in Wales). So make a point of going to the pub more often than before (great excuse!) and keep the pub going. Don't just go for the weekly sing, go on nights in between. And buy the pub's beer, don't sneak in a few cans from the offie. Or sit at home whining about erosion of freedom and let the pub close. Your call.

Andrew

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:48 AM

You just got to read this!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/11/17/do1704.xml
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Gasping
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:50 AM

well.. before we do.. it is of course the Telegraph !

wow.. wonder what we'll read there then....!???????

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:59 AM

Well Mr Gasping, give it a go, it's acctually humour & nothing to do with smoking.
What name will you hide behind next?
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Notamused
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:02 AM

sorry Skipy mate.. tried to read it..

but it is really shite !

and most probably only hilarious for folks of a certain weak-minded self indulgent disposition.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:03 AM

100 (a day)
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:18 AM

Skipy smokes 100 cigarettes a day? Heavens!

I saw a very funny Horizon programme a few months ago, called We Love Cigarettes (if it's available online, say on Google Documentaries, which I can never find when I want it, maybe someone would post a link). Bill Nighy did the voiceover.

One of the great scenes was a doc talking about cholesterol as he cut into the arteries of a smoker during a heart op. He carefully peeled out a long white candle-wax-like cylinder, which was the cholesterol in one of the smoker's arteries.

It's a personal choice if you want to smoke, drink to excess, eat yourself to death or drive dangerously - but only if it doesn't endanger others. I'm asthmatic, and feel that my father's 80-a-day habit when I was a baby and my mother's 40- to 60-a-day habit throughout my childhood must have contributed. They didn't want to harm me, of course.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:40 PM

Gave up and started again?

I know I've quoted this before, but I think Skippy, you need a reminder:

"A fire on one end and a fool on the other"

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:51 PM

Rog Peek, whoever you are:-
I stand by my right to smoke, smoke I will and I am smoking more & I will continue to do so, when they come to take me out they better be ready, really READY to deal with my fury because I will take some of them with me. So come for me when you think you are ready.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:03 PM

O.K. Skipy, I give up. I'm not one to continue flogging a dead horse. If you'll pardon the expression.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:09 PM

Rog, give up if you wish, I will not give up smoking or give in to the nannies, a livetime of political alliegence has now changed & I have become active with a "smaller" party, I know I can't win, but I can cause problems & I will.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Alarmed
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:54 PM

I have become active with a "smaller" party ????

BNP ?????

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:05 PM

CORRECT
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Notsurprised
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:16 PM

well... wot a surprise !!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:18 PM

Just how many more names are you going to have before you find the bottle to stand up and counted?
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:31 PM

Skipy: Smoking Kills: Ignore Peril Yourself!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:46 PM

Yes, without a doubt, smoking kills, non of us live forever, drugs kill, beer kills, motor bikes kill, skis kill, skateboards kill, parachutes kill, cars kill, aircraft kill, bees kill, mosquitos kill snakes kill, virus kill, terrorists kill, life kills!
Make your choices, you will die!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Concerned
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:55 PM

so what are the mental health criteria for getting an individual sectioned..?


apparently asylums will be exempt from anti smoking legislation..

hmmm.. perhaps some nicotine adicts might want to go voluntarily..!!!???

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:09 PM

Skipy, some of those on your list are NOT about choices. I've worked too long in the health service to be other than convinced that you CAN make choices to improve your longevity and state of health on the way to the inevitable, which may be particularly uncomfortable if you die of smoking-related disease, be it cancer, arterial disease or COPD.
I'm currently watching my father-in-law slowly peter out through failing lung function after many years of too much smoking, so please don't be so flippant about it. (Although he has been known to say himself "you've all got to die of something").

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:32 PM

I'm so sorry to hear you say that you smoke as if it were a badge of freedom, Skipy. It's like hearing a girl who cuts herself say that this gives her control over her body.

Of course you have the right to do it if you want to, but I'm sad for you that you want to!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Ohwhocaresanyway
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:37 PM

yeah.. sometimes you just cant make your mind up if a troubled insistently perversley minded individual
just needs a slap or a cuddle..???

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:08 PM

Skipy, sounds like damaging up your lungs and heart to spite the non-smokers
(like cutting off your nose to spite your face).

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Goodgriefwhyaminotinbedyet
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:19 PM

btw.. for any Americans joining in now..
you might want to consider the nature of the political party
for which Mr Skipy
claims to be an enthusiastic activist.. "BNP"

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Your Feudal Lord
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:19 AM

Smoking is nasty. The government should regulate it. Then in the future if blonde hair becomes offensive, the precedent will be set for government enforcement. You people are natural born slaves.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:15 AM

Hi Skipy: You know smoking's bad for your computer, right?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Coulddowithsomefreshair
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 06:45 PM

could do with some fresh air here..

bump !

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 03:27 PM

skipy - you have posted some very meaningful and often funny contributions here but you realy need to sort youself out on this one. You really are just using the restrictions as another excuse for not giving up. It is classic addiction behavior and I am sure if you would just accept that you may find giving up, or at least not smoking in the presense of non-smokers, far easier.

Good luck. Just a fortnight to go:-)

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 03:39 PM

I tried that tack Dave, I'm afraid you're flogging a dead horse.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 04:28 PM

And I gave up smoking for 11 years!
Now they want to lower the ammount you are allowed to drink if you have the car with you to 1/2 pint!
The wedge! the wedge!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 06:03 PM

I know skipy, "It's a Hard Life Wherever You Go!" (Nanci Griffiths).

If I had a violin, I'd be playing it for you!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 06:26 PM

Wetherspoons has put out a leaflet in its pubs looking forward to the ban, and pointing to all the extra beer and food people can buy if they give up smoking. That's what I call positive thinking.

As for the stuff about tiobacco being more addictive than cocaine or heroin, I'm sure that's true for many people, and it's one good reason niot to get into smoking.

But no smoker should ever take that as a reason not to quit, because for quite a lot of people it's not hard at all, and you might be one of the lucky ones, like me and my father-in-law were.

I've recently been making a practice of counting the number of people smoking in the fairly sizeable and crowded barroom of a pub I frequent. The other day there were four, which is the highest yet. More typically it is one or two. Smokers don't always appreciate what a small minority they are. And I've never heard anyone apologizing for the discomfort they cause others, or thanking non-smokers for putting up with it all these years.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 07:10 PM

Well Mg come & have a pint in my pub, we are the majority!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:25 AM

In two weeks they won't be, skipy! If this causes the pub to close then I am afraid the majority of people in the country, being non-smokers, will not miss it in the slightest. Tough but true. And as to the limit for drink driving going down to a half pint - the sooner the better. When the government start to restict the activities of the drunken louts that rampage around our city cetres every weekend as well, I shall also welcome that.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 02:36 PM

I actually think that they should not allow drinking and driving at all.

By introducing no alcohol, sends the right message out.

I would much rather know that if I drive, then no alcohol.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 05:36 PM

I don't drink drive at ALL, when I walk in the pub they pour me a pint because they know what I drink. If I am with car, & just going in to speak to someone I hold my keys up, this tells the staff not to pour one as I have the car in the car park.
However the point is:- the system cannot catch most of the pratts that do drink & drive on a regular basis! So now it is going for randon checks & nicking anyone who has had a 1/2 pint , that will put their figures up without attacking the problem children.
Steal a car, after you have lost your license (if you had one that is) & drive it around like moron whilst drunk & you will probaly get an on the spot £80.00 fine. Drink 1 pint & you are nicked & banned!
If you can't see what they are doing & why then I implore you to step back , take a look & THINK!
Skipy
The wedge is coming for you & yours!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:41 PM

Skipy, I'm sure you're a good bloke - but you don't seem to accept that when you smoke in a confined space that causes serious discomfort to lots of other people. It's just not a friendly thing to do. Outdoors it's no problem, apart from some situations when lots of people are all crowded together, in a concert maybe.

All you are being expected to do now is step outside for a few minutes when you are in a pub and feel like a smoke. The same way you would if you were visiting a friend who didn't like the smell of tobacco in their home. Not exactly a big deal.

Good manners, that's all is really. It's sad that it needed a law to stop some smokers messing up other people's enjoyment. And as often happens when the law comes into play, it's probably gone further than was strictly necessary - but that happened because smokers weren't taking the lead in removing the practice from situations which interfered with other people.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:46 AM

Your logic still is still escaping me, skipy. What you seem to be saying is that because there are idiots who steal cars and drive them around while drunk and already banned, that it is wrong to clamp down on anyone else? What sort of world would we live in if everyone followed that sort of reasoning?

"Oh - the bloke next door mudered his wife so it is OK for me to just knock mine about a little."

"Well, they haven't caught everyone involved in the Brinks Matt robbery, so why should they arrest me just for nicking £10 from an old lady."

Skipy, I didn't think nicotine affected the thought process but it seems to be getting to you!

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 06:35 AM

nice weather we are having - so the colleagues who pop-out for a breath of fresh air tell me.

Skipy - men wearing dresses would have been an arrestable offence before Wolfendon. How attitudes change!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 07 - 02:05 PM

12 days

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: vectis
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:32 AM

11 days

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:13 PM

10

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 08:08 AM

can you still buy 10's ?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Cohiba
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:06 AM

I've selected a rather nice Cohiba Esplendido to savour (with a pint of Young's Special) in my local pub on Saturday June 30. What is your preferred brand?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:49 PM

This one is specially for you Skipy:

I heard on the news last evening that the foot-plate on steam engines, yes, you know, the ones which belch out clouds of smoke, are classed as a work area, and on them therefore smoking will be prohibited.

I was going to say "put that one in your pipe and smoke it Skipy! But I don't want to antagonise you too much.

Mind you Skipy,that sort of thing does your 'nannies' arguement no harm atall does it?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 02:24 PM

There are many of you who are enjoying taking the piss on this subject without a thought for the 30+% of us that this will affect straight away, it will make some changes NOT FOR THE BETTER for the rest of you.
This will change my life radically, my only Fun thing in life is to be chair of the Old Mill Hall in Grove (known to some of you as the venue for Folkforms) I have held the position for 11 years, incidentally no one else steps forward at election time! The hall is like a large village hall & last year held 1335 bookings! with several venues in use many time a day. I meet with the hall manager, sec, & caretaker for approx 1 hour every Monday & every Friday, to sign staff cheques, find out "What happened" at the weekend etc.
I have reluctantly had to resign as the meetings are in the pub. Of course holding the position has been good for Folk for ms.
I have been involved with the local cubs & scouts since my 2 where beavers, so ten years or so, I get involved with teaching & looking after the hut (a venue known to some of you as a singaround venue for white horse folk festival), I have resigned as the meetings are in the pub!
I can't sing, I can't play anything, I can't dance, so I can always be located on the edge of events, for instance, Chippenham Fest (24 years!) I can be located in the open space next to the sing room, from here on in I will have to be outside - what is the point of that, so why go, so why run a charity, why bother to run a festival!
The whole of my life may well change, I mmay leave folk music & charity behind me.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 03:54 PM

Skipy,, your principles are so strong, you are letting them get in the way of all the good you do.
Yes people will suffer for your decisions to resign, but I can't help thinking that you are letting the smoking or inability to do it in the future be the punishment to everybody who depends on you.

Surely you should be above that. be strong and show everybody how you can continue and do all your good work, even if you feel you are being victimised.

I am certainly not taking the piss out of you, as I used to smoke 50 a day and it took me a lot of will power to stop.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:02 PM

Hear hear Villan!

Nor me Skipy,....honest. If you feel I have been taking the mickey, then I'm sorry, that was never my intention.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:37 PM

Skipy - of course you have a right to smoke, but it cuts both ways, while you're smoking, it desensitises you to the effects, you just don't notice that your clothes, hair, skin smell bad and that the somke makes others' clothes, hair, skin smell bad, smokers have been having bad effects on non-smokers (especially asthmatics) for years and years. I lost my voice on the first day of Whitby festival, because I sang in a smoky pub, and I had to leave Tony and Pearl's essential sing at Chippenham this year because of the smoke, even though it was the first year for ages that I could (in theory) have sung in the Rose and Crown because my singaround started later.

Please don't stop the great things you do for folk music and folk for MS because you aren't allowed to smoke indoors.

Kitty

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM

Kitty, that is why I sit outside the sings, never going in so as I do not cause a problem, but that is not enough for the nannies, they want me to sit in another country.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Mr Bemused
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:25 PM

..so how come everyone is 'overlooking' skipys earlier claim here
that he has become a BNP activist because of his 'principles'?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:05 PM

I'm trying to picture what the conflict is between the valuable volunteer work
and smoking outside. It is a shame you would quit your work. Can't you just
go out for a smoke? Or is it that you have a cigarette lit all the time? Too many
smokes a day so you would always be outside?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:49 AM

Dear Mr Bemused, without the bottle to use the same name twice!
BNP is not the party it used to be, check their web site, read what they have to say.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:23 AM

The BNP supports the right to blow smoke in the face of the rest of us and doesn't give a fig about our right to breathe clean air and not smell like an ashtray after a night out? That figures.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:44 AM

Acctually I don't think the BNP does support smoking I don't know for sure I haven't checked but there again have you?
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Cathie
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:57 AM

By the Way - Tescos are selling patches - 2 packets for the price of one for anyone interested.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Uncleboko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:32 AM

10 days to go!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:49 AM

The real problem here - surely - is a fact we all know and have been there ourselves in many cases.

Lack of cigarettes (and even the threat of it) makes smokers

BLOODY IRRITABLE OK?

Skipy - the ban does not prevent you from doing anything except smoke in a public room. The rest is a personal choice and we respect that - but reserve the right to think those choices are not irrevocably linked in any other way.
I remember you 20 years ago being at the Highworth Club run by another smoker - Bill Bailey. It was no smoking then. They had no beer breaks - but two fire breaks. And you thought that description was amusing. How things change.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:01 AM

Mr Red, you like many are completely up the wrong track with this one, I have no problem at all with not smoking in folk clubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres swimming pools! etc.
This is about being pushed around by a nanny goverment who will go for the easy target all the time, the motorist, the smokers, whilst ingnoring the tide of crime that is sweeping this country. Allowing millions of scrougers to live off the state while we pay for it!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:41 AM

But being pushed around by people who insist on smoking in places where that causes discomfort to others, rather than wait until they can step outside for a few moments, that's quite OK.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:47 AM

MG read my post above have I not just said that I do not have a problem with:-

Here it is for you again,

Cut & paste.
I have no problem at all with not smoking in folk clubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres swimming pools! etc

Now scroll up 2 threads & see if it is there!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 09:09 AM

And nor do I have any problem with people not smoking in confined spaces such as folk clubs, restaurants etc.

But, like most people, I do have a problem with people smoking in such places. And we won't from July 1st, and for that I am very grateful.

In fact I'm looking forward to having a smoke-free celebratory drink on that day. And I suggest that people who welcome the ban should make a point of doing so, including especially the many people who have felt reluctant to go into pubs because of the smoke.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 09:18 AM

Yes well we all know why you want people to go in in the first few days, but it won't last, trade will fall off, pubs will close and you will lose venues. But none or few of you will come back to report this when it happens.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:00 AM

Why has this thread become a perniciously persistent BNP propaganda vehicle !!!???

BTW........

Weak pathetic snivelling selfish smoking addicts..


Face up to your addiction and deal with it positively.


Stop whining and blaiming others for your 'misfortune'.


Resorting to this all other kinds of displacement & denial behaviour.

will only result in YOU cutting off YOUR nose to spite YOUR face.

I and millions of others dont a give a monkeys

if you feeel no longer wanted by our more healthy & intelligent society.


Stay at home and poison yourselves in the privacy of your own dens of hopeless addiction.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:08 AM

Time for your medication, go and see nursy see if she can tell you your name so that you can use it next time!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:18 AM

Skipy..

check the mudcat history of my name.




I promise I will now use it consistently in this thread..

Just as a favour for you......................

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:36 AM

My sincere apologies, I have not checked it & will not check, I am more than prepared to take your word.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,browser
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:47 AM

"Stop whining and blaiming (sic) others for your 'misfortune'.
Resorting to this all other kinds of displacement & denial behaviour (eh?). will only result in YOU cutting off YOUR nose to spite YOUR face.I and millions of others dont (sic) a (sic) give a monkeys (sic) if you feeel (sic) no longer wanted by our more healthy & intelligent society"

GUEST,GEUST - do you really feel you belong to that 'intelligent society'?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:57 AM

well, 'they' let me in and tolerate me sometimes
when I promise to behave myself nice enough..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 12:06 PM

>>ingnoring the tide of crime that is sweeping this country. Allowing millions of scrougers to live off the state while we pay for it!<<

Well I suppport you there Skipy 100%

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 12:27 PM

"I have no problem at all with not smoking in folk clubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres swimming pools! etc.
This is about being pushed around by a nanny goverment who will go for the easy target all the time......"

Come on Skipy, if everyone behaved towards everyone else with consideration, there would be no need for any laws atall. No-one would smoke in pubs in case other patrons found it offensive. Unfortunately it is not a perfect world populated wholly with considerate benevolent people that we live in. I can't ever remember being in a pub and someone saying "do you mind if I smoke" - ever!

It's been my experience that some people use the 'nanny state' arguement when laws are passed that they are not in agreement with.

Tell me, is it actually the law that you disagree with or is it that somebody has presumed to impose it?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:36 PM

Actually - smokers are not a group that governments anger lightly. They are numerous and vote. ditto beer drinkers, ditto football fans.

FWIW the revenue from tobacco is the reason that it has taken this long for action. Maybe they have done their sums and looked at the real cost in the NHS of tobacco. On everyone - let alone smokers.

My feeling is that (say) motor sports like Motocross would be banned if you looked at the equation in that depth. Little tax revenue, and plenty of hospital visits - some quite lengthy.

Skipy - you should recognise a devil's advocate when you see one. I live and let live except for politicians - don't get me started on any of them - ....................... colour is not a political preference in Rouge Towers - matey.............

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:43 PM

Rog, I as stated now many times do NOT have a problem with not smoking in various venues, I do however have a problem with having these laws pushed upon us.
The next thing they are working on is banning us smoking in our own car (when driving).
Soon they will move on fishing! Personally I hope they do as this will be the end of them.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:03 PM

There would have been no need for this ban, and no call for it, if only smokers had had the good manners to go outside when they smoke. They didn't and they don't. I don't think I've ever seen anyone leave a pub or similar place to light up, except where they have been officially required to do so.

And of course if smokers were to do that, as a matter of good manners, they wouldn't even notice that this law existed, because it wouldn't affect them or anyone else.

Nanny state? Well, when you have infantile behaviour...

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:28 PM

No Skipy, it's only when you have the pbone in the other hand that you'll be in trouble smoking when driving! And the non-smokers have had smoke pushed on them for a long time.

For smoked fish, go to Whitby.....

During the 11 years you gave up smoking, what part of the smoking experience did you miss most?

Kitty

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:58 PM

Kitty , you are so, so wrong, google it, there is a move afoot to ban smoking whilst driving due to go through parliament this October.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:59 PM

Mh Do you go outside to fart?
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:06 PM

Guest Geust:-
if you feel no longer wanted by our more healthy & intelligent society.

I was not going to pick up on this, however as someone else has so will!
As my IQ is over 140 I did take umbridge at your insinuation that smoking is related to IQ, I found your rant insulting, perhaps that was your whole idea, you are a sad person & they WILL come for you at some point.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:15 PM

Is the proposal to ban smoking when driving being done because it's smoking or is it because it's going to be put in the category of eating and drinking when driving i.e.not always 2 hands on the wheel?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:26 PM

Many years ago when I rolled my own, I could roll a cigarette while I was driving. What a bloody dangerous thing to do, I hope they've banned that.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:31 PM

In my area in the US smoking is now banned to almost all indoor space...including bars, pubs & restaurants. People are adapting and business is actually increasing in many places....and fewer people are STARTING to smoke because they have fewer role models. It is a blessing.

...and now *I* can come to the UK and go to pubs and enjoy your good beer safely...*smile*

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:32 PM

eanjay, it is not proposed as part of the no smoking debarcle, it is along with the mobile phone law (which for the record I for one agree with). Next will come speaking to a passenger, nose picking, farting, sneezing etc. etc.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:52 PM

Skipy..

high IQs

and willfull perverse block-headed harmfull stupidity

are sadly not mutually exclusive..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:56 PM

Of course, the real trouble comes when you drop your lighted cigarette on the seat between your legs!

'Fate worse than death.' comes to mind.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:58 PM

Well I mean, you might have to make the choice.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:08 PM

"willfull perverse block-headed harmfull stupidity"
Guest guest, you my know me you may not, non of us live forever, I for one don't want to die of old age I would rather die for a cause, my choice, your call.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM

Die however you like, as soon as you like..

..just don't take me/us down choking with you..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:37 PM

"Do you go outside to fart?"

Obviously I would do my best to avoid farting in a pub or restaurant, if I possibly could. Wouldn't most people?

However that felt like a rhetorical question, implying that skipy might disagree. Well, that's consistent, I suppose...

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:49 PM

Why start smoking again after 11 years off it too? Did some nanny say you were such a good boy, so you did it for devilment?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 05:47 AM

To answer your question TB,
It was caused by a life changing event called divorce followed by meeting a partner that was a smoker! The rest is history.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:21 AM

Skipy, I gave up successfully then started again after about four years - in my case a death in the family. Later it was the consultant.

But I don't whinge about smokers - at least I try not to.

I hate smoking in pubs now - and I live in Spain part of the time where the problem is one hundred times worse. The Spanish brought in a law about smoking in bars - one bar I know well has a no-smoking area. But they put ashtrays on the tables just in case!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:57 AM

In Italy it's illegal to smoke anywhere around children under 12 or pregnant women.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 08:40 AM

Skipy - if your car is owned by your company then may very well apply (I think they class company cars as rooms). And if you carry passengers in a company car it very definitely does. Including a hire car - hired by the company. If you hire it personally maybe not.

If the car decides to smoke - I would advise YOU get out quick - PAL.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 09:01 AM

I used to have a car that smoked. It needed new rings.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 11:03 AM

What was wrong with the Horn JennyO :-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Ringo
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 11:15 AM

I had a ring that smoked ...




(I'll get my coat!)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 12:01 PM

Did it blow smoke rings?

Villan - sounds like you might be trying to lower the tone around here :-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:04 PM

Skipy

I couldn't find anything suggesting that the Government is going to ban smoking while driving a private vehicle, although the Department for Transport has recently consulted on proposed restrictions on smoking on seagoing and inland waterway vessels.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/smokingonvessels/


Kitty

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:32 PM

Smoking banned, thank God.

Now can we move on to alcohol. people killing themselves slowly (or quickly), making a noise in the street and spoiling our right to a quiet life.

And casinos and slot machines, don't forget them, parents leaving their children alone while they go out and gamble away all of their money in the hope of a quick win.

And horse racing, yes horse racing. Cruel to the horses and encourages gambling. (See comments on slot machines)

Now then, what about cars. They've all got to be fitted with automatic controls so that we don't get too close to the car in front, so that the wipers come on automatically when it rains; in fact, the driver shouldn't actually have to do ANYTHING.

Finally DNA testing at birth, keep your profile on record, just in case you ever drop a crumb in the street, and the chip implant in your head so they can track your movements and prove where you were and know where to find you.

What a wonderful world.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 04:54 PM

Smoking is not banned. People are still going to be allowed to buy as much tobacco as they like, and to smoke it till it comes out of their ears. Just not in pubs and restaurants and so forth.

In other words they will still be free to behave in a way that any smoker with elementary good manners would have been doing all along - going outside to smoke rather than impose their smoking on other people.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 05:32 PM

Not yet

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Spidey Bobe
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 05:58 PM

9 days to go!!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:56 PM

I'm interested in knowing 42 days after the rule takes effect how things will be. Please update us then!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 07:06 PM

Copied from a previous thread, started in Jan 2000:

My Last Cigarette

[A]Tobacco, Tobacco I [D]hate you I do
Like [E] Tarzan I'd look if it [A]wasn't for you
But I'll give up the habit I[D]will even yet
When I've [E]had just one more cigar[A]ette.[E7]
It[A]wasn't the whisky, it [E]wasn't the wine
That [D]made such a wreck of this [A]body of mine
But I'll give up the habit I [E]will even yet
When I've had just one more cigar[A]ette.

Under my eyes are a couple of bags
I blame it all on to a packet of fags
But I'll give up the habit I will even yet
When I've had just one more cigarette
My teeth are all yellow and so is my tongue
I breathe through a kipper I call it a lung
But I'll give up the habit I will even yet
When I've had just one more cigarette

Nail in my coffin so pale and so thin
I am a fool to keep driving you in
You say thet you'll kill me how much do you bet
When I've had just one more cigarette
I'll fling the packet away, away
Fifty times in a week I say
Fling the packet away away
When I've had just one more cigarette.

I remember this song being popular in my teenager-hood in the 1960s, probably when I first tried the weed. (Since gave it up 30 years ago). The song still seems very contemporary!
What I didn't know until I looked it up just now, was that it was written by Sydney Carter: he who wrote "Lord of the Dance" and "John Ball". He lived to the age of 88, but don't know if he was smoking then.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 03:06 AM

So this is the burning question?



I'll get me coat.........

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Uncle Boko
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 03:57 AM

8 days to go!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 04:16 AM

Is there a tune for 'My Last Cigarette?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 06:15 AM

and do you have to have a gravelly voice and cough?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 07:07 AM

Yes "My Last Cigarette" was recorded (I think) by Sheila Hancock.

I still have the single somewhere ... it was bought for me by my parents as a hint to give up smoking. I did manage to ..... 30 years later.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 07:16 AM

Apparently a Mucdat Midi of the song is available under the Title ...MY LAST CIGARETTE

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 01:44 PM

Gravelly voice and smoker's cough helps with the delivery of the song, yes! The first 2 lines are in fact a rather punctuated major scale upwards, but listen to the midi.
I seem to remember the song was often requested on "Children's Favourites" maybe by parents who didn't want their kids to start, or maybe even by kids who'd already started too early?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 02:55 PM

If there is Nuuty, I can't find it.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 04:18 PM

Are you looking in the right place Rog.

You will find 'Mudcat Midis' under 'Quick Links' at the top of the page.

OR ....

CLICK HERE


AND SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:18 AM

Ah! Ther tiz.

Thank you nutty, I'm a relatively knew boy learning the ropes.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: nutty
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 07:00 AM

Don't worry Rog ... There is a lot lot more to Mudcat than people realise at first. Thats what makes the place so fascinating.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 05:05 PM

Amazing

Went to the bowling Alley today with family.

They had progressively reduced the areas you can smoke in since February. The only place left was a part of the bar, which was due to be smoke free on July 1st.

However, the smoke and smell was so bad from the smokers, they brought it forward a couple of weeks abd banned smoking completely.

The staff were so glad.

Lots of people were there including families with children. It was so pleasant.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 10:45 PM

After the no smoking went into effect here, there were tv ads of real waitresses who work in restaurants and bars who thanked people for not smoking, telling their story of how they were moms, how they had to breathe smoke all day on the job and now felt healthier because of the non smoking environment.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 08:23 AM

I've been away with no online acces for a week - Very nice it was too:-) Good to see the old chestnuts are still being floated by you skipy.

Can I ask you what the problem realy is? You say that you have no issues with stopping people smoking inside public buildings yet you are still ranting about it. You say you take exception to the government deciding what you should do yet I have seen no evidence that you take exception to laws banning paedophilia and rape?

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 09:19 AM

yawn

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 09:20 AM

Mr Polshaw I hereby refer you to the laws of libel, which I am prefered to use if persist.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:12 AM

I am well aware of the laws of libel, skipy, which is why I have made no attempt whatever to defame anyone. I was only going to ask the one question but I am now forced to ask another. What on earth are you on about?


Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:14 AM

"yet I have seen no evidence that you take exception to laws banning paedophilia and rape?"
Your veiled insinuation that I am a condoner of or in someway involved in the above.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 10:52 AM

There is no veiled insinuation at all. How on earth could you arive at that conclusion? I am trying to establish where your draw the line between good and bad government intervention. If you believe otherwise then please feel free to continue your threatened course of action. I await your official invitation to attend the law courts. Where, of course, smoking is not allowed:-)

Now, go and have another cigarette to calm yourself and answer what I thought were very relevent questions.

If you have no issues with stopping people smoking in public places then why are you making such a fuss about it?

If you believe that the government should not pass laws for the greater good of the people then would you be willing to live in a completely lawless society?

What is the problem?

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 11:06 AM

Not a threat Dave, I went off on one because I though that was what meant, I'm in the wrong, so sorry.
It's the way that this law has been put in place & not thought out, there is plenty of room for smokers & non smokers to live side by side, should have been the landlords choice to allow one smoking bar & one none. Many old pubs will be lost to this, many livelyhoods gone, most bar staff work because they have too & loads will be laid off. The facts are there to be read for Scotland. We will lose sing, music & dance venues, leaving only the food & sport pubs belonging to the big chains. There is no way that they will let a load of "aging hippies" in with their beards & wierd instruments to sing about sheep shearing!
It is also about informed choice, I am well aware that smoking will kill me! But I will not be pushed into giving up by Blair or any of his cronnies! Just for the record I would not be pushed by the far right either!
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 11:38 AM

Ahhhh - OK. Apology accepted although none was necessary.

Bear with me on this though, please. There is so much wrong with your last paragraph, that I have addressed before, I am begining to wonder if we are speaking the same language. Please forgive any previous confusion and let me try again.

Firstly. "should have been the landlords choice to allow one smoking bar & one none". This has been the choice for as many years a I have been drinking. And that is far too many! NONE OF THE LANDLORDS IN MY AREA MADE THIS CHOICE. Every single one of the 30+ pubs in my hometown allowed smoking EVERYWHERE. The landlords and the licensed trade in general have ALWAYS had the choice to have smoking and non smoking areas. The vast majority could not be bothered which is why their hands are now being forced. Although, to be honest, without the investment in proper airflow equipment having a smoking area in a no smoking building building is like having a pissing area in a public swimming pool!

Second. "Many old pubs" are already being lost. They are closing at a rate of 50 a month. Nothing at all to do with the smoking ban. No-one can accurately predict if this will go up, down or stay the same and how, if at all, the smoking laws will affect this. Anything telling you otherwise is pure speculation.

Third. "many livelyhoods gone" is far prefereable to the alternative of many lives gone, which is what was happening when non-smoking bar staff and pub goers were forced to breath your second-hand smoke day after day.

Fourth "The facts are there to be read for Scotland" are NOT facts. Look back up the thread and you will find at least two links disputing that claim. One of which is from CAMRA - Who do you expect me to believe? The breweries who wanted me to drink Watneys Red Barrel or the most sucessful consumer rights group in the world?

Finaly, no-one at all is "pushing you to give up". Many are in fact bending over backwards to provide you areas and shelters where you can smoke in a warm and dry environment with like mided individuals, without inflicting your waste products on others. How is this forcing you to give up?

So, one last time. Where is your problem?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM

I wouldn't wholly disagree with some of that skipy - separate smoking rooms mighthave been a fair exemption (though not bars - people have to work behind bars, and the smoke blows from one bar to another)   What brought about the wider indoor ban was largely the refusal of smokers to accept that smoking should only be carried out in settings where there was no imposition on other people, customers or employees, and to campaign for facilities that would permit that.

As I said, I don't think I have ever seen a cigarette smoker voluntarily walk out of a public place such as a pub or a restaurant before lighting up - be honest, have you ever done that? Let alone calling for a separate room to be provided for people wishing to smoke, to which they could take their drinks themselves. If those kind of things had been happening, I have little doubt that legislation would have been framed in such a way as to allow it to continue.

And nobody is forcing you to give up smoking, skipy. Just ensuring that other people won't have to breathe in your smoke second-hand.

I suspect that the ban is actually going to help a fair number of old pubs survive. It's the old ones with small bars which get smoked up most easily, so that just one smoker can deter any number of potential customers from even entering.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 12:14 PM

I have seen smokers voluntarily walk out of public places before lighting up.

Unfortunately, both of my sons smoke. One of them never lights up in a restaurant. The other, together with his partner, always leaves the restaurant between courses and goes outside to smoke. He goes out of my house to smoke although I have never asked him to.

There are some considerate smokers around.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 02:46 PM

But there are a lot who are not. 6 days to go!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 03:06 PM

Dave

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. I am a non-smoker and I own and manage a shop where nobody smokes, either staff or customers.

But under this new legislation I have to put up signs saying 'No smoking'

If I don't, I get fined £2000. If someone actually smokes in my shop, they get fined £50.

Duh????

Also why do I have to put up only 'No smoking' signs. Neither I nor the government allows theft, rape or firing shotguns on the premises. But I don't have to put up signs saying that its not permitted.

It's more than legislation for peoples health. We're falling prey to control freaks who don't think that anyone should do anything that THEY think is wrong or bad for us.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 03:25 PM

And just for the record, we (and a lot of other people we've talked to) are far MORE likely now to go out for a social drink or meal in a pub than before (we're in Wales, which has already stopped smoking in public places). I've lost count of the number of pubs and restaurants we've left early because of the smoke. I have asthma and my husband is an actor and values his voice, and we can't be in a smoky atmosphere without consequences.
So forgive me if I can't feel too sorry for the "freedom" lost to smokers, when their "freedom" meant my dependence on having my asthma inhaler to hand. I do think we have a far more important right to breathe clean air than any right to light up a cigarette which contains all manner of toxins in addition to the tobacco.
I'm also not too sorry for drivers restricting their alcohol intake, or for drivers being persuaded that two hands on a steering wheel is generally good practice.
Now if they'd only tighten up on drivers who ignore the rules on roundabouts and motorway sliproads ...or sitting in the middle lane ...Sorry if this infringes anyone's freedom! (Actually, no, I'm not.)

Anne

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:08 PM

"No smoking signs" are a pointless idea now. I would hope that this requirement is just a transitional thing, once the penny has dropped that all enclosed public spaces are "no smoking".

Perhaps as a way of indicating that you think it is a stupid idea you could put up a notice where "no smoking" is accompanied by a list of a range of other things that aren't permiotted either, such as the ones you mentioned, Kampervan.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 04:14 PM

Not a bad idea thankyou McGrath, might just try that.

Cheers
K/van

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 06:02 PM

Just a couple of brief replies, YES I HAVE LEFT RESTARUANTS to smoke between courses even though there where ashtrays on the tables but others where eating. I smoked outside our local Indian frequently before it became no smoking, with no problems.
Tonight however I signed the cheques for the staff of the Old Mill Hall for the last time, end of an era - 11 years of attending a meeting every Monday, so who is going to do it from hereon in? well they will have to find a non smoker! There should be a meeting this Friday for the events of the weekend, non smoker needed or it will not be monitored for sound, health & safety etc.
Scout meeting next week, I won't be there, cub meeting the following week, well get someone else to repair the building, because I won't be there.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 07:15 PM

well, they will have to find a non smoker! Or a smoker who is able to abstain from off smoking when that is inappropriate.

I'm not teetotal, but that doesn't mean I can't spend time in places where I can't have a drink. And I've never heard of any churchgoers who have to light up during church services.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:09 AM

I don't understand, Skipy, if you're prepared to leave restaurants in the middle of a meal for a smoke why you wouldn't be prepared to leave meetings (briefly) in the same way. Unless, of course, you're wanting to punish the whole of the community for the decision that smoking is best done out of public areas?   Can't think how it's the fault of the cubs or scouts... does this mean you used to smoke in those meetings? In which case, how inconsiderate you've been in the past, and maybe it's just as well you're moving on.

Anne

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:21 AM

Skipy

Instead of withdrawing your services to the organisations that you have listed because you can't smoke in the pub where the meetings are held, why not invite all concearned to your home to hold the meetings where you can smoke away to your hearts' content?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:58 AM

Still not answered the question, skipy. In light (no pun intended) of the points I have constantly made, what is the problem?

Kampervan, Also why do I have to put up only 'No smoking' signs. Neither I nor the government allows theft, rape or firing shotguns on the premises. But I don't have to put up signs saying that its not permitted..

I think it may be because two of the other three things mentioned are illegal everywhere. Smoking is not illegal - It is only restricted. Shotguns would be a good example though as they are also restricted and, like McG, I think it would be a good protest to put up signs as suggested. You could add no farting and no bullshitting:-) I agree that the fine for not displaying the signs is ridiculous btw.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:26 AM

Tabster, cut/scout meetings are held at a circular table on the edge of the smoking area of the pub, it was just a case of pushing my chair backwards 1 mtr & I would be in the smoking area but able to hear what was going on. The Monday & Friday meetings are held in the smoking area & all four of us smoke, as the pub has a quiz every Monday & live music every Friday punters tend to come out later so the pub is virtually empty when we are in there early on.
Dave, I am sick of the nanny state, as stated most pubs could be 1/2 smoking, 1/2 non smoking.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:01 AM

I think many habitual smokers have managed to convince themselves that their habit does not actually cause discomfort to other people, and that the suggestion that they should have tried to avoid smoking in confined areas, out of regard for other people's comfort, is just a matter of busybody killjoys.

"...it was just a case of pushing my chair backwards 1 mtr & I would be in the smoking area but able to hear what was going on." And of course the smoke would stay within the smoking araa, so everybody was happy...

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:09 AM

Yes, everyone was happy, they chose to meet in the pub, not me, I am only a minion, so I turnup to where they say the meeting is!
Well, used to anyway.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Anne Lister
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:20 AM

I still don't see the problem about going outside for your quick dose of nicotine and tar, if you're prepared to do that for a meal out. You wouldn't miss much of the meeting. But it certainly sounds as if you're throwing your teddy out of the pram and deciding to punish everyone else for the fact that legislation isn't the way you'd have liked it.

Anne

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:23 AM

in one!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:43 AM

No argument if it is a case of throwing the teddy out then I guess.

I will ask you to reconsider one more time, skipy. You will honestly not be missed in the big scheme of things (remember the old dip your hands in a bucket of water thing?) but you will miss the things you used to do. And why?

Like I keep saying - it is NOT a 'nanny state' thing. You have already accepted that the state HAS to intervene where things are obviously harming other people. They HAD to intervene in this case because the landlords you keep telling us would like a choice had that choice for years and years and chose not to have no smoking areas. You have said yourself it is NOT the fact that you have to leave the room. No-one is trying to force you to stop. The only reason left is the one you have admitted to - Throwing the teddy out.

If that makes you feel happier then feel free to fling old Bruin as far as you like but just accept that it is nothing but your own petulence stopping you attending meetings and folk events. Don't blame anyone or anything else.

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:57 AM

Who said anything about not attending folk events?
Also I never heard anything about landlords having choices!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:18 AM

"it was just a case of pushing my chair backwards 1 mtr & I would be in the smoking area but able to hear what was going on."

How did you stop your filth from drifting into the non-smoking area?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:21 AM

It didn't stop it, I'm not pretending thet it did, it just meant that I was in the legally designated area.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Fox
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:28 AM

"I think many habitual smokers have managed to convince themselves that their habit does not actually cause discomfort to other people, and that the suggestion that they should have tried to avoid smoking in confined areas, out of regard for other people's comfort, is just a matter of busybody killjoys."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tobacco doesn't kill people, people kill people........

Oh, they know, McGrath. They just don't care.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:11 AM

This is not a nanny state issue. The employees have to stay in smoke filled rooms
much longer than customers. The employees' health is impacted the most by
second hand smoke. It is a clear matter of public health. For the same reason
you don't want a cook with TB working in your restaurant, you should recognize
that lung and heart disease is a problem for people who have to breathe in second hand smoke
every day.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:20 AM

Then give us a room staffed by smokers, nearly all the staff in both my locals smoke!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:21 AM

sat at an open air gig in the backyard of a pub last weekend..

sun was fierce enough to need to sit at a table under a parasol..



..totally surrounded by gormlessly oblivious ill seedy looking chain smokers
and wrinkly druggies smoking spliffs..


some of them had their young kids and toddlers jammed in amongst them..


the new pub restrictions are not positive & protective enough..

i'd have voted for a total ban on any smoking in all pub premises
including yards, gardens,
and within a stricly enforced wide area
surrounding all entrances and exits..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Blowzabella
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:23 AM

I am sure I posted this before but it seems to have disappeared ... no idea why. However, will try again - I will have no problem dealing with the new legislation, as I have always been more than happy to pop outside for a ciggy - often preferred it, to be honest. Chat to new people, take a break from the conversation inside etc etc. However, I would have much more respect for it, if the House of Commons bar hadn't been exempted - how come??? Also, that certain actors' roles wouldn't be exempt, for 'artistic' reasons. What? Either it is imperative to protect the nation from itself or it isn't - but please ....

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:23 AM

Also I never heard anything about landlords having choices!

The landlords and/or breweries dependant on the lease or arrangement could ALWAYS designate some areas to be smoking and some to be non smoking, just in the same way as the owners or managers of ANY public building always had a say in who did what in their building. Just look at where smoking has been allowed or not allowed in the last ten or so years. Have you been able to smoke in hospitals in the last 10 years? No. Have you been able to smoke in public libraries in the last 10 years? No. Have you been able to smoke in schools in the last 10 years? No.

No need to ask yourself why smoking was allowed everywhere in most pubs is there? I have said over and over it was the 90%+ of landlords and breweries who chose NOT to have smoke free bars and areas that have forced the governments hand. I don't know how many times or different ways I can say this. The free choice that the licensed trade has had for the last 50 or more years has failed. Carry on giving them free choice and there is no indication at all that it will work in the next 50 years. This is why someone HAD to act and the only someone with the power to act was the government.

The next time a landlord comes crying to you about freedom of choice ask him why he did not do more to make sure that non-smokers had the same freedom of choice. Ask him why he did not have an area where smoke could only affect those that entered it. Ask him what he ever did to protect his staff from the effects of smoke. I think the answers from the vast majority may surprise you.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:24 AM

You just don't "get it", skipy. That's a shame.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:28 AM

Dave, I will do what you say & ask both of our landlords.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:34 AM

Oh - just cross posted. The only reason that most of the staff at your locals smoked is the same reason that most people in the trade in general smoked - It is severely biased towards the smoker. Why on earth would a non-smoker want to work in that environment? Just think what you are saying. The split of smokers to non-smokers is what? 30/70? 40/60 to be generous? You would expect that split to continue in all professions wouldn't you? Yet you openly admit that the majority of staff in your locals smoke. What is the majority? 80%? 90%? More? Have you never wondered why that is? I know you have a good brain there skipy - I have seen it it many previous threads. Just use it logicaly now.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:49 AM

It may be that they smoke because they are surrounded by smokers, it may be that they smoke because they breathe in smoke all day and there is a subliminal effect.
It may be a demographic issue, it may be a peer pressure issue.
We would need a large control group to find out, when bar staff leave they are usually replaced on a "Oh, my mates looking for a job, can she / he come in for an interview" thus a smoking friend introducing a smoking friend. We would need to know what % smoked before they took the job. Also if they where previous smokers, who had stopped. ETC!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 10:05 AM

I'm begining to feel like Columbo on the TV again.

Just one more thing...;-)

You ask Who said anything about not attending folk events?

Well, sorry skipy, you did! Is the nicotine having it's effects again?


Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy - PM
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 02:24 PM



I can't sing, I can't play anything, I can't dance, so I can always be located on the edge of events, for instance, Chippenham Fest (24 years!) I can be located in the open space next to the sing room, from here on in I will have to be outside - what is the point of that, so why go, so why run a charity, why bother to run a festival!
The whole of my life may well change, I mmay leave folk music & charity behind me.
Skipy



Sorry. But I can't help pointing out the obvious. It is a bad habit of mine. Probably worse than smoking;-)

I'll tell you what I will do as well. I am going to bookmark this thread. On July 1st 2008 I will let you know how many pubs in my area have closed. The list of nearly 30 public houses within a 1/2 hour walk for me is listed below. You are welcome to check them yourself. There should be 1 or 2 according to what is current trends. I will be every surprised if there is more than 3 (10%).

Irlams o'th' Height

Red Lion
Wellington
Dog and Partridge
Wagon and Horses
St Lukes social club

Salford

The Hope
(There are dozens just outside the circle but I don't go in any!)

Swinton

Farmers Arms
Cricketers
White Lion
St Marys social club
Park Inn
White Swan
Staff of Life
Buckley
Bull
Football
Weavers
British Legion

Pendlebury

Royal Oak
Albert (Currently closed - may re-open yet. I dunno.)
The Pendlebury
Bowling Green
British Legion
Newmarket
Nelson
Britannia
Showboat
Borough Social

They ALL currently allow smoking everywhere.

Oh - I could do another 30 or so near where I work but my poor little fingers are tired:-)

Cheers

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 10:32 AM

I didn't say I won't be there, I can't go to anything is the point, I have to attend to put up advertising for my events, but I can't go to singarounds or music sessions. So this year at Warwick I won't even bother to go downtown. It'll be a case of putting up a few posters, plastering the place with handouts & then drinking in the van! You are welcome to join me for a tinnie, but I will be smoking.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 10:51 AM

Hey guys, light up. Sorry, I meant lighten up. At least in my final hours of agony I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I have fulfilled Mr Fox's dream (as expressed the "Londonderry Air" thread).

Meanwhile, cheer up. The day is nigh. And if you are looking for a sign of the future, try this one .

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 10:52 AM

I realise I am fighting a loosing battle but just one last time (till the next)

I didn't say I won't be there

but I can't go to singarounds or music sessions

Why not? Who is stopping you? Do you not find the two statements above mutualy exclusive?

Our definitions of "The whole of my life may well change, I mmay leave folk music & charity behind me." are that vastly different that I suspect we must indeed be speaking different languages. If you leave folk music behind you will not attend the concerts singarounds etc. If you leave charity behind why would you go round putting up posters etc? Fun? Profit?

If you are happy to put up posters, plaster the place with handouts and then go drinking in the van I think you may need to evauate what it was you got out of folk music in the first place? Is that the issue? You don't realy get anything out of it so you are using the restrictions as an excuse?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 01:09 PM

Remember, it isn't tobacco that is barred in the bars. Just smoking it. Snuff said.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:31 AM

4 days to go.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:41 AM

Y'all won't mind if I chaw on a plug then?

I miss the old spitoon. (No I'm not going to finish it).

Keep smiling!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:59 AM

>>I miss the old spitoon<<

Two mates in a pub and the one mate bets the other that he can't take a sip from the spitoon.
The other mate takes the bet on.
He gets the spitoon in his hands and starts to take a sip. However he doesn't stop until the spitton is empty.
His mate says "I didn't ask you to drink the lot"
The other one replied "I had no choice, it was in one piece"

I'll go get me breakfast.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Zach
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:15 AM

Welcome to control police state Britain, we would not put up with this in the states

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:39 AM

Welcome to control police state Britain, we would not put up with this in the states

Been smoking in any bars in California recently, Zach? Tried to get a drink in any Dry counties lately? Been found with small ammounts of cannabis and been given a caution in Alabama?

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:47 AM

Or shot for crossing the street not at the proper place?
Yep, liberty is well preserved in the US of A

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:57 AM

Or having your passport confiscated because you went to Cuba! Or doesn't that happen any more?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 08:53 AM

Welcome to control police state Britain, we would not put up with this in the states
That would be the same States that does not let UK folk artists in would it?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,waiting
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 09:01 AM

only 4 days.........










......till this thread dies (hopefully)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 09:12 AM

In the Inn At The Ball Park, Houston, Tx, USA, smoking is prohibited except in rooms designated as 'smoking' (which are a small minority) and within a few feet of the bar. In a week, last week, I saw no more than three or four people light up, all of them standing at the bar - including when the place was full of Astros supporters celebrating their win over Seattle. It was a nice, clean, filth-free hotel.

"we would not put up with this in the states"
What a load of bollocks Zach, you yanks are full of shit.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,yank
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 09:16 AM

Zach
Reel 'em in - they've gone for it nicely !

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 09:32 AM

Sorry, Guest 'yank'. No cigar this time, not that you could enjoy it anyway:-) If Zach was indeed trying to reel anyone in or 'yank' (see - there is a pun again!) their chain he or she failed dismally. It is a well known fact that USers do not understand or use irony. If Zachs post was ironic he would therefore have to be British and would understand the irony of the responses, as you have spectaculary failed to do. Unless you are British as well of course in which case you will understand that to ridicule your feeble post is in itself post modernistic irony. Or is it..?

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:41 PM

Dave, that was nasty - poor GUEST will be running to the therapist now.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:23 PM

Yesterday, I went to an acoustic night where the music has always been good enough to override my dislike of the smoke. The pub has just been redecorated and the landlord decided to bring in a no-smoking rule a couple of weeks ahead of the law.

What I saw was a room as full as normal - in fact, there weren't enough chairs for all who wanted to sing. This morning, I read a comment on a message board from another participant (a smoker) blaming the smoking ban for the fact that the pub was only half full.

Clearly, we each saw what we wanted to see. If we can't even agree on how we interpret the effects of the restriction, any discussion of the rights and wrongs of smoking and the coming law is futile.

DC

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:58 PM

Doug
I am convinced things will get better once the ban comes in, as you have already witnessed.
Les

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM

I may be living in the last state in the US that allows smoking in public establishments.

I've lived in places where a ban was instituted while I was there. Prior to it, there was a lot of speculation about how business would be ruined as smokers stayed away in droves.

What really happened was that smokers adapted, and a lot of folks who previously left early or stayed away entirely started spending more time in these smoke-free establishments and business improved almost universally.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:37 PM

I'm not sure if all our state has a ban, but town by town has banned it in restaurants, school property,
public places, etc., over the years.
The result is that business thrives, fewer people are sick from second hand smoke, and children
have fewer smoking role models to influence them.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:50 PM

"However, I would have much more respect for it, if the House of Commons bar hadn't been exempted - how come???"

Not just the fags either BB. That particular bar is also exempt from Public Entertainment Licensing.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:43 PM

I think the excuse is that it counts as a Royal Palace, and they are exempt too, because they aren't "public places".

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:14 AM

I've always hated smoke and have walked out of pubs before now because you could almost cut the smoke in there. Now I'm even more anti-smoke. I spent last Christmas in hospital (got taken in on Christmas Day) and spent 3 days on oxygen. Investigation showed that I now suffer from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD). When I finally convinced the medics that I had been a lifelong no-smoker and hadn't worked in the local mines, they came to the conclusion that I had it because I had lived for years with a heavy smoker. What price marriage? Broken lungs.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:46 AM

"I think the excuse is that it counts as a Royal Palace, and they are exempt too, because they aren't "public places"."

So another exemption then.

The government owes no duty of care to its employees, but imposes that duty on every other employer in the country.

Gets better and better doesn't it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Uncleboko
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 08:59 AM

I used to work for a company called Maas International UK in Wapping, owned by a Dutchman called Maas - you may have seen their black vending machines. Despite having a no smoking policy, that bastard proceeded to smoke cigars whenever he visited, and nobody other than myself had the guts to say anything to him. No doubt this kind of arrogance goes on all the time and will continue to do so.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Uncleboko
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:00 AM

Ah....2.5 days to go!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:01 AM

Well Don, I don't give a toss what happens at Buck Hice - I never go there and 99.999*% of the British public don't and never will either. I'm interested in what affects the huge majority, and this rule will mean that we no longer have to ingest the disgusting filth that others put out into the atmosphere.

When smokers volunteer to drink my piss, I'll support their wish to be allowed to smoke in the pub.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:32 AM

many smokers taste buds are so dead anyway..

they would'nt realise if you did swap a pint of it for their favourite lager !!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:35 AM

Uncleboko
To my knowledge the Dutch haven't got a ban on smoking yet. Its a shame as we are over there in August, and I remember last year going into restuarants and cafes and people were smoking like luny's.
Hope they stop smoking soon.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 10:57 AM

Might be a bit difficult in the cafes, Les - All depends what they are smoking! I guess you could get the odd situation where tobacco smoke is banned but 'alternatives' aren't!:-)

D.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 11:11 AM

"but imposes that duty on every other employer in the country."

Not quite all - prison screws aren't covered.
............................

"odd situation where tobacco smoke is banned but 'alternatives' aren't" - not so odd. In Irish pubs, I understand, herbal cigarettes aren't covered by the ban, so long as they don't contain tobacco. Of course one popular herb is affected by other legislation...

The English ban covers all types of smoking - though I don't think it applies to incense in churches, so long as it isn't polluted with tobacco.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 11:43 AM

Dave
Only a certain number of cafes are legally allowed to sell drugs. They could ban smoking completely and let the cafes serve space cake instead.
Les

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: The Barden of England
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:08 PM

They do a very nice line in chocolate cup cakes in a couple of the 'Cafes' I've been to in Amsterdam. Seeing as I don't smoke it's a nice alternative.
John Barden

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:51 PM

I like the Uitsmijters for breakfast - great value.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Puffing Bill
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 08:49 PM

Yes chase all smokers into the closet. Well they are empty now as the gays came out of them a few years ago.

Welcome to the new fascist state United Kingdom.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:21 AM

Yes, Puffing Bill, definitely facist. Bring back child labour and teenage prostitution. What happened to them good old Victorian values...

And of course likening people who want to protect the majorities health to the people who murdered six million Jews makes perfect sense and offends no-one.

D.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:30 AM

I wonder what the male crowd in any bar fifty years ago would have said if you announced that in the future you couldn't have a smoke while having a pint with your mate but you could marry him??

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:53 AM

Yes chase all smokers into the closet.

No, quite tye reverse. Get them out of enclosed spaces like closets where they are smoking the place out. Bring them out into the fresh air and the open, where they can keep off the flies and the midges.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,barman
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:49 AM

"I wonder what the male crowd in any bar fifty years ago would have said if you announced that in the future you couldn't have a smoke while having a pint with your mate but you could marry him?? "

Well said - the way things are going, drinking will be next on the list.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Roll on Monday
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:35 AM

well theres no reasoning with addicts & rednecks..


Next positive step forward, a ban on sales of all smoking related products !!!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:04 AM

Restrictions on where you can use drugs, such as tobacco, makes sense. But going further than that emphatically does not.

Prohibition of alcohol in the States was a disaster. The same goes for "the war on drugs". Prohibition of "sales of all smoking related products" would just put billions of pounds into the pockets of the dope dealers, and would probably serve to greatly increase use of all kinds of other illegal drugs.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Roll on Monday
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:47 AM

yeah.. can dream though..

Dunno why Brewers can't help provide a medium term solution
by supplying bottles of nicotine enriched lagers and alcho-pops
for the most obstinately addicted puff heads..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,RoM
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:13 AM

"Roll on Monday" - Sunday, surely?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Roll on Monday
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:28 AM

wahey..!!!! so Junes a 30 day month.. of course.. innit !!

so I can have a smog free pint this Sunday afternoon..

even better !!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:44 PM

If all of this correspondence is to be beleived then the pubs are going to be packed to the rafters with all those non-smokers who have previously been unable to visit a bar because of the cigarette smoke.

Or maybe not?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:59 PM

If all of this correspondence is to be beleived then the pubs are going to be packed to the rafters with all those non-smokers who have previously been unable to visit a bar because of the cigarette smoke.


Will not happen. The smell of cigarette smoke has to got rid of first.

Lasts for ages so once the stink has gone maybe the places will fill up.

Tell me, why - now it has become too late - have pubs suddenly decided no-smoking rooms and ventilation have suddenly become a good idea?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:33 PM

In time maybe. There are lots of people who have got out of the habit of going to pubs because they found the smoky atmosphere unpleasant. Especially former smokers. They won't all come back overnight.

But I suspect there may well be more of those than there are of regular smokers in pubs these days. I'm sure there are pubs where it's been different, but in most places they're a very small number.

Anyway it's a done deal now, and we'll see how it works out from Sunday on.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Roll on Sunday [actually]
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:39 PM

..unless these [BNP shop front ???] wankers can 'pull off' a legal challenge..???

http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk/

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: vectis
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:51 PM

Only 1 day to go Yipppppeeee!

Oh! And 300

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Horton
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 04:47 AM

Great, hope the takings go down in all the pubs as they have done elsewhere.

Hope more people stop smoking and the government see this and tax the hell out of everyone.

If 4% of the population stop in the next twelve months the government will have to add 2 pence to the basic income tax rate.

So with a bit of luck they will, and with an expected rise in interest rates in August it should make a nice Christmas !

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 06:40 AM

If you are correct Horton in your assessment of the tax situation, a fairer way to recoup the losses might be to make smokers pay for their health care.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 06:56 AM

That WOuldn't work, Rog. Currently the tax from cigarettes etc is about 9 billion, and the NHS costs for the same number of smokers are estimated at about 2 billion (heard this on Radio 4 this week). Smokers would gladly pay their own NHS costs if they saved the smoke tax in its place.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 07:17 AM

Sorry, last post was mine.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Asthmatic Pub-goer
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 08:49 AM

"They are probably subsidising the health care of non smokers."

So the selfish smoking ****s effin well should !

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Asthmatic Pub-goer
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 09:15 AM

Anyway, who in their right mind is expected
to readily trust and respect the judgement & motives
of incurable addicts,
intent on arguing to be left free & unrestrained
to continue selfishly inflicting discomfort
and ill health on everbody else in the community ?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 09:37 AM

Pub-goer

The sentiments expressed in your last post equally apply to the effects that alcohol have on the community.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Asthmatic Pub-goer
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 09:47 AM

so..

Up until now I am 'threatened' by selfish nicotine addicts every time I go out to a pub to try to enjoy a few pints.

I can't even remember the last time my night out was marred
by threateneingly troublesome drunkards.

Btw, I live in a town noted for its supposedly violent pub culture;
well not in any pubs & clubs I prefere to drink.


Also interesting to note how many patheticly weak smoking addicts are also
abjectly obese !

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:27 AM

This idea that smokers should pay for their own health care always amuses me .................. like people who participate in dangerous sports pay for theirs, like people who overeat pay for theirs, like people who do too much sunbathing and don't use blockers pay for theirs, like ...............

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Asthmatic Pub-goer
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:38 AM

Depends on the degree to which their 'dangerous' activities
feck up the health and well being
of all the rest of us in a community.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 10:50 AM

These are 2 different issues.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:06 AM

"a town noted for its supposedly violent pub culture" - due, I suppose, to the inhalation of too much smoke?? Not likely!

Every town in the land has the same claim to fame.

I've never heard of anyone going home, beating the wife and terrifying the children because they've had too many ciggies!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:11 AM

8 hours to go

tick tock tick tock

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:24 AM

A whole new world is about to evolve for you.
Enjoy!
Jim

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:26 AM

They do whinge don't they?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Asthmatic Pub-goer
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:32 AM

squirm adicts, squirm !

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:42 AM

I haven't actually noticed anybody whinging.

I'm a non-smoker and I have never smoked but that doesn't mean that I can't see that some suggestions directed at smokers are unreasonable.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:47 AM

This should help the smokers :-)

To take your mind off smoking

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 12:28 PM

Went to the Green Note in Camden last night - SMOKE FREE, wonderful, ven with the veggie food - next time I'll take a pork pie!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 01:58 PM

I don't really understand the comparison between smoking and drinking, in an enclosed space. Drinkers only become a nuisance and risk being injurious to others when they become drunk. A smoker only has to ight up one cigarette. So I propose a ban on drunkenness and smoking in confined spaces.

Only 5 hours to go, whoooopeeeeeee!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:17 PM

some suggestions directed at smokers are unreasonable

"Don't smoke indoors in public places" is an unreasonable requirement, eanjay?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:20 PM

I'm talking about suggestions like they should pay their own healthcare.

I did say some suggestions and not all suggestions.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:29 PM

Eanjay
I didn't suggest that they 'should' pay for their health care, only that if GUEST Horton was worried about the 2 extra pence on tax that might acrue, and that that be a reason for not having a ban, then he might like to consider the premise that smokers pay for their own health care instead.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:37 PM

Rog

If you knew your arse from your elbow and weren't trying to be such a smart arse, you'd realise that the references to drinking were made in an attempt to point out the effects that alcohol have on the community. Surely, if tobacco is such an evil in our society, then the evils perpetrated through the abuse of alcohol should be addressed next by the government, or do you think that that would an abuse of our personal freedoms?

I'm a non-smoker as well, by the way but one who worries about the erosion of our personal freedoms and also a little disturbed at the juvenile taunting by some of the anti-smoking lobby here.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:42 PM

My personal freedom is being increased by the requirement that people step outside to smoke.

I've nothing against smoking, just, not in my lungs.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,active, chance visitor
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:44 PM

All of you sad, sad folk submitting 'countdown' posts every x days / hours :

get a life.

(Or do we have to await the first "1st no smoking day (UK) - how has it been for you?" thread)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:45 PM

Sparticus
I will of course not stoop to personal abuse, but will just remind you that this thread is about no smoking in enlosed spaces and not in the community at large. If you wish to discuss the ills of smoking and drinking at large then perhaps you should start another thread.
You might add 'the ills of being personally abusive'

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:49 PM

then he might like to consider the premise that smokers pay for their own health care instead

As I said, "a suggestion"!

a little disturbed at the juvenile taunting by some of the anti-smoking lobby here

Agree.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:58 PM

Or do we have to await the first "1st no smoking day (UK) - how has it been for you?" thread

I think it already exists. See BS: Non Smokers thread England UK

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 03:09 PM

Well I'm off out set dancing now. By the time I get back, the 42 days will be up so I guess this thread will have closed.

Best wishes to you ALL!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 03:11 PM

Have a good night.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,s particus
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 03:18 PM

All the best

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Asthmatic Pub-goer
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 03:20 PM

oh, and how often in public do you encounter
an anti social pissed-up loud mouth aggressive arshole
who is not also a smoker !!??


seems to me at least, quite significant 'co-incedental' behavoural & personality traits..


And tonight,
I don't find it too hard to imagine there will be many incedents of public violence,
triggered by peeved pisshead smokers banging on loudly and aggressively
about the 'errosion' of their civil liberties..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,acv
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 03:20 PM

Rog
"By the time I get back, the 42 days will be up so I guess this thread will have closed"
Alas - you have no chance - even after tomorrow, this thread will still be worming its miserable way to the top of the list. (Or else a replacement, 'examining' in tiresome detail the aftermath of June 30/July 1)
Cheers
Mick

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 04:37 AM

Nobody likes a bad loser. :-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 09:25 AM

The smoking ban is now a "fait accompli", but it occured to me that smokers haven't really appreciated non-smokers position - over and above the obvious health hazards - because a) they ( i.e. smokers) don't really feel the unpleasant sideaffects of a smokey environment i.e. stinging eyes and smelly hair and clothes. Smokers can't smell the smoke on their hair/clothes, and have become immune to the "stinging eyes" syndrome.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 09:45 AM

Aye - Here it is. I was out with Abram Morris all day yesterday and in the pub at night, I had my last cigar inside - I don't generaly smoke but I thought I would enter into the spirit of the thing:-) Before anyone thinks I have gone mad(der?) I have had the occasional smoke since giving up 15 years ago - About twice a year! Won't be out now till the open mic night in Monkseaton on Tuesday but I am looking forward to seeing (or rather smelling) the difference.

Whoever asked 'how come the pubs have suddenly decided that smoke rooms and adequate ventilation are a good idea' hit the nail on the head. It is the point I have been trying to make all along. In the 60's and 70's the pub trade decided it would be a 'good idea' (read 'more profitable') to make pubs open plan and get rid of all the small rooms. Apart from the odd one or two sensible chains, like Weatherspoons for instance, they would commit no money to ventilation and now they are whinging like idiots anout the restrictions. It wasn't just big business either - The small independants were almost as bad. I kept harping on about the licensed trade, not the governmant, being the main instigator of this legislation and until now no-one else seems to have picked up on it. So - Thanks:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 09:57 AM

Fair point there, Dave.
It's also true that nowadays you cannot depend on simple politeness for decent behaviours (like not lighting up where there were non-smokers around), as you could not so long ago, certainly within living memory. I don't know how selfishness and crassness crept in, but it has, and it seems that one has to legislate now against many things that would have been impolite, even unthinkable, before. I am vociferous against PC madness, but I can also see the need for some of it (I know the new smoking legislation has nothing to do with PC, I amk simply extrapolating to behaviours generally).

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 11:37 AM

George and dave.

Yeah, I agree with the points that you make generally.

And o.k. the pubs/breweries could have taken the iniative but they didn't
But then why couldn't the legislation have been worded to include the provision of a properly-ventilated place where smoking would be allowed.

Always providing that the room complied with the rules on air movement and particle filtration, and with drinks brought in from a 'clean room' so that staff didn't have to work in the smoking area?

It all smacks of control freakery.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 11:57 AM

Not quite as simple, Kampervan, although I do agree with the principle of choice. How do you think both the big breweries and small landlords would have reacted if the government had introduced legislation saying that all pubs etc. HAD to spend thousands of pounds to re-install the seperate rooms and then provide adequate ventilation? At least this way the most it costs them is a few hundred quid for each pub to provide a smoking shelter, if at all.

Although I have a deep loathing of politics and politicians in general, as can be seen on many other threads, I realy feel for them on this one - They are damned whatever move they make. I think that introducing legislation which suits 70% of the population is probably the lesser of all evils.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 12:00 PM

If the pubs/breweries had taken the initiative, and if the smokers had been demanding facilities to allow them to smoke without getting up other people's noses, the legislation might have been different. But they didn't and they weren't. They were perfectly willing to continue with the existing arrangements.

When it came to the point the only choices on offer were to do nothing and so continue to discriminate against the large majority of people who don't like smoke with their drinks, a daft "compromise" ban that would have meant that all pubs that didn't serve food would have continued to be no-go areas for people who couldn't take smoky environments - or a total ban.

Not surprisingly the total ban won out.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 12:22 PM

Spot on McG.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 01:44 PM

Yeah well have it your own way. we're never going to agree on this.

I just think that it's all part of a general trend towards making taking the risk out of life, which I see as a bad thing.

Yes, I know why should someone else put your life at risk. But I'm just not sure where all this is going to lead us in the future.

We've already got a movement to restrict medical treatment for overweight people.

They're starting to talk about cutting down on drinking at home.

God it's going to be a bloody boring place to live.

I'm not a supporter of the conspiracy theory, but there are a number of people who feel the need to exercise control over peoples lives and they do this by trying to persuade us to give up control of our lives to them because it's in OUR best interests.

And I find it a bit scary.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 02:26 PM

There is a poll running on BBC Front page as we speak / type, when I placed my vote approx. 1 hour ago I was surprised to find out the pro ban % was only 53!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Arnold
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM

I also lodged my vote Skipy, I am against the ban. A ban on pubs and discos staying open until 4.am or drug addicts receiving cuddles from society instead of harsh prison sentences YES.

I went down to my local earlier and it was empty, Reg who runs it was pulling his hair out !

My wife spoke to her brother in law who runs a successful pub in Somerset, he said it was busy at lunch time, but few drinkers there, families out for a sandwich and a soft drink, he said he was 26% down on the average takings by 4.00pm.

I feel sorry for him as an individual, but on the whole I am very pleased at the response of smokers to vote with their feet.

Long may it reign.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 04:09 PM

My local, run by a couple I really like, held a "no smoking! party today, because they had to, they are part of a chain. I had occasion to drive past there twice, enroute to shopping & checking out the local skips. The pub was virtually empty & the car park area set aside for the "fun day" was barren, they would not have covered the cost of hiring the equipment! It's started, watch this space!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: The Barden of England
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:49 PM

Yes sure - the pubs are empty today. What's so unusual about that. all the smokers are trying to prove a point. Let's see how it is in 3 months time when the non-smokers return to the pubs they eschewed, and the smokers realise they go to the pub for more than a cigarette. They're meeting places, not smoking dens. If I go into a pub with my own beer, the landlord gets upset, so why should a smoker go in with his own fags when there are fags to be sold in the pub? Seems like discrimination to me.
JohnBarden

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 06:09 PM

See you in 3 months. From here in my life is FUBAR. 1200 now closed in Ireland
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: The Barden of England
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 06:16 PM

1200 now closed in Ireland

Since when exactly? And how many pubs were there in Ireland before the ban? Perhaps 1200 less? Come on now, I presume we're grown up and can quote the sources?
John Barden

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM

Check out:-
www.freedom2choose.co.uk/

http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk/

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 06:56 PM

Maybe it'll be a more interesting place to live when people aren't giving their money to evil greedy cancer-spewing corporations!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Smoker
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 08:06 PM

As a smoker this ban would never make me stop. My partner never smoked and since the ban here in Scotland we no longer go to our local.

She cooks on a Saturday evening, we enjoy a drink in our own home, we have had friends around and big brother does not tell us what to do !

The guy who runs our local told me trade since April has fallen by 35%
he said the off licence trade has also suffered, most people get their wine or beer in the supermarket while shopping. He is also president of the local vintners association and said the panic running through the trade at the moment is awesome. The government isn't looking at their bank statements and offering support like they do with farmers in times of crisis.

The only ones quoting figures of success are the anti smoking brigade.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 08:38 PM

Sorry B of E, am I missing something?

This is not about smokers staying away cos of the ban. But it is about all the non-smokers, who previously couldn't go to a pub cos of the smoke, still not going to the pub.

They nver really wanted to go, they didn't want people to smoke.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,The Barden of England at work
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 02:25 AM

I checked it out as you said Skipy, and still no definitive source. Just saying 'the latest estimate'. From where? How many pubs were closing before the ban? What about the property boom in Eire which would I guess see pubs being bought by property developers. I also notice the website is 'Freedom2choose' so no bias there then? If the pub owners (not most landlords I will agree) had only tried to cater to all their clients by installing smoking rooms for those who wanted to smoke, and non smoking rooms for those who didn't, we wouldn't be here now. They never catered to my 'freedom2choose' did they.

Sorry Kampervan - I didn't put it too well. I believe that give it 3 months and we may well see the non - smokers going out more. To just go on 1 day, and the first day at that, is not proving a thing.
John Barden

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 05:34 AM

The ban in Ireland was introduced in March 2004 - Over 3 years ago. If the 1200 pubs and bars quoted is since the ban that is, on average, just over 30 a month.

I'm afraid I don't know the figures for Ireland but what I do know is that, on average, in England the figure was closer to 50 a month. BEFORE the 'ban'. Now, it doesn't take a great mind to figure out that pubs are closing anyway and I am not saying that none will close due to the restrictions. Implying that these 1200 have closed purely due to the restrictions, however, is an out and out lie.

It is also no surprise that a web site that is so blatantly against the restrictions would try to con people in such a way. How about some completely independant links giving us the real picture? Maybe this one that I quoted earlier. Shows a rather different picture doesn't it. Tell you what - An excecise in seeing who can find most articles for and against will be pretty pointless so if people stop quoting the 'facts' as shown by one side only we can concentrate on the real issues.

Like how do we make sure pubs and folk clubs can stay open without subjecting the majority of people to minorities toxic waste? Sorry guys put the restrictions are now in place. Until someone else says otherwise you are going to have to stop whinging and learn to live with it.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Smoker
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 05:46 AM

Yes under the rule book that clearly wish to write. No thanks.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:58 AM

"She cooks on a Saturday evening, we enjoy a drink in our own home, we have had friends around and big brother does not tell us what to do !"

Precisely as it should be. Smoke your stupid selves to oblivion in your own homes - no problem at all. Just don't do it where I'm forced to inhale your filth.

These selfish idiots just don't get it do they? As I said elsewhere, when smokers drink my piss I'll fight for their right to smoke in the pub.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:33 AM

Backwoodsman

Why so angry???

Steady the buffs!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:02 AM

Bakwoodsman,

if GUEST, Smoker is already doing what you think he should - i.e. smoke in his own home - why do you call him stupid? Lighten up now, no need for such spiteful and aggressive behaviour.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Smoker
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:06 AM

Provides the point most members make here, it really should be Backwardman not Backwoodsman.

A bitter old clown

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:10 AM

Just refer him to his own post of 01 Jul 07 - 04:37 AM , GUEST, Smoker.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 11:15 AM

Not angry, not a clown. Just fed up with smokers trying to justify what they do and refusing to accept that it's a foul, anti-social habit which inflicts suffering on others. They don't want to ingest my waste-products, why should I be forced to ingest theirs?

There's a view which I subscribe to which is that, if smokers hadn't been so selfish in the past (and there are those who aren't selfish) a ban wouldn't have been put in place.

I have no objection to people smoking in their own homes because it doesn't affect me.

And yes, I do think smokers are idiots. The medical evidence proves it. Maybe if some of them had done as I did, and sat holding the burning-hot hand of their dying smoker-mother as she drowned in the pink foam she blew out of her mouth and nostrils with every agonising breath, they might agree with me and give 'em up. It's a vile death. Why make the end more difficult (and early) than it need be?

None are so blind etc., etc.

Outta here.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 11:47 AM

So judgemental and intolerant of others vices, even when they do not affect you (GUEST had already said he smokes at home, you admit you have no problem with that, but still call him an idiot). You must be very pure and vice-free yourself to feel so righteous and so ready to cast the first stone. Never smoked, did drugs, got drunk, or been overweight; always washing your hands to avoid spreading infections; never been to work while trying to shake off a flu', never picked your nose (did you know that this is now considered a major source of MRSA infections?)...

And still, even with such a halo of purity, your willingness to judge would be suspect, calling people stupid for the harm they inflict on themselves (no longer on you, after the ban). I wonder, do you do the same for those unfortunates suffering from cirrhosis of the liver?

It's a funny way to live a life, I think.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 06:40 PM

Well, I managed it tonight! I DID NOT go to the pub, 1st time on a Monday for 11 years, so I DID NOT sign the staff cheques for a venue I have looked after for all that time. The staff will not be paid! Perhaps they will have eat their children! The only way that I can strike back at this ban is to withdraw my services to the community & I am doing it!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 12:39 AM

Shame on you Skipy. Thats not the way to do things.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:01 AM

it's alright Villan, I signed extra ones last Monday!
Skipy.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 01:17 PM

1)
I have become active with a "smaller" party ????

BNP ?????

CORRECT
Skipy

2)
…………The only way that I can strike back at this ban is to withdraw my services to the community & I am doing it!



In view of the former, the latter could be a blessing in disguise.


DC

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 01:54 PM

..and doesn't http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk/

reek of foul smoke billowing out the arse end of the BNP !!!???

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 02:11 PM

O/K "active" means I read their bloody website, about once a fortnight, if I remember to do so! Thats ALL!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 07:38 PM

Get real: get a life: give it up as you did before, and get back to being a responsible and helpful person instead of throwing all the teddies about, in your smoke-deluded sense of liberty-deprivation.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 09:15 PM

Dropped in for a drink this afternoon to the pub I frequent; all the regulars seemed to be there, and just as many irregulars. Outside a small bunch sitting on the steps smoking and chatting. All of us getting a bit of fresh air, whether we were inside or outside.

Any smoker who stops going to pubs because of this must be a bit of a nut really.Sorry skipy, but honestly I just can't see where the problem is.

It's just a shame it took a law to get people to behave in a way that a little common courtesy should have been sufficient to achieve.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:28 PM

Just imagine if tobacco had JUST been discovered, and some company was trying to get it approved by the health authorites.

"Well, you see, you take these leaves and dry them, wrap them in paper or stuff them in a pipe...then set fire to them and inhale the smoke.. Chemicals in them? Oh...who knows?"

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:02 AM

OK George, I apologise - not for the views which I firmly hold, but for the way in which I expressed them. Sometimes pain, even old pain, gets in the way of reasonableness.

But I still wish that some (not all, there are some considerate smokers around, and certainly you're one of them George) smokers would accept that non-smokers' rights are just as important as theirs, and that it's very unreasonable indeed to expect people like me, who don't smoke, to ingest their waste.

That's all. Over and out,

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:45 AM

"smokers would accept that non-smokers' rights are just as important as theirs".
I for one certainly do!
Which is why I have said all along "seperate bars at the Landlord's descetion"!
Skipy
(with nowhere to go & nothing to do)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:52 AM

You still keep thinking separate bars protect non-smokers rights? This is about employees, mainly,
as they are the ones worst impacted by second hand smoke when they have to breathe it
while serving smokers, day in and day out, all through their shift. Having to go into a separate room
full of smoke is not protecting their rights.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:55 AM

Most of the staff at both my locals smoke! The only problem with seperate bars would be that they would argue about who is working the none smoking bar!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:58 AM

It really does seem to me that anyone who really accepted that "non-smokers' rights are just as important as theirs" and recognised that their smoking caused real discomfort to others, would make a point of going outside of any shared room in order to smoke, even where there was no legal requirement to do so.

Sitting just behind the line across a room between smoking and non-smoking areas just wouldn't be good enough, given the way smoke ignores boundaries like that.

Good manners and consideration for others should have meant there would have been no demand for a law and no need for one.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:58 AM

Skipy, your answer proves how self abosorbed you are ... "my locals"... this is about all, not just yours.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:08 AM

By My locals, I simply mean the venues that are local to my domicile, I have no ownership claim on them, never did have, never will have & never meant to imply such.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:12 AM

Thanks for that gracious post, Backwoodsman. Next pint's on me!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:22 AM

I know you don't own them. It is still a self absorbed point of view.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:27 AM

No, it's not at all, you sit in one bar, I sit in another, we are both happy & so is the landlord!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:47 AM

But it didn't happen did it? The pubs were mostly converted to open plan, with perhaps one part of the open area being called "non smoking", which didn't do anything to stop them getting smoked up.

Basically people who don't like the idea of having to pop outside if they want to smoke should be blaming the landlords and the pub owners for failing to ensure that there were proper smoke free areas, not the non-smoking majority who have been denied smoke free areas all these years.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:49 AM

Having a smoking area and a non smoking area next to each other is a bit like having the gents urinals draining directly into the public swimming pool. No matter what you do you will get some smoke in the no smoking area. The grey smelly stuff can neither read nor stop at imaginary boundries. If for one minute you believe that either the private landlords or the big breweries would spend many thousands of pounds installing proper ventilation to ensure that this would not happen you are deluding yourself, skipy. They nevr have before, they will not start overnight. Given the choice of running pub with a no-cost smoking 'ban' or being forced to spend megabucks, what choice do you think most people would make?

Did you ever ask your landlords what they had ever done to safeguard their non-smoking customers and staff btw? You said you would but never got back. I guessed that the answer would be either very little or bugger all!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:50 AM

Employees of smoky businesses were almost 6 times more
likely to have detectable levels of the carcinogen in their
urine. And those levels seem to grow about 6 percent for
every hour they were at work, Stark said. Once someone
inhales NNK, it takes up to 45 days for signs of the
carcinogen to leave their body.
Stark noted that restaurant and bar workers tend to be
younger women with lower incomes and sometimes no health
insurance, a population vulnerable to health problems.
Working amid smoke raises their risk not only for lung
cancer but also breast cancer, heart attack, premature birth
and other health problems.

Read the whole article here Click here "Even within a brief work shift, we can see increasing levels of this potent lung carcinogen,

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 11:10 AM

Dave, I do intend to discuss this with him, but as I work in a village 5 miles from home & the pub, I am not likely to bang into him for sometime to come, however the subject will be broached & discussed in full as soon as practicle.
He is a non smoker by the way, however the landlady smokes.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 11:52 AM

just curious..
anyone know how the new law relates to smokers
living in private rented shared accomodation
with communal kitchens/ bathrooms / living-rooms ?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 11:56 AM

It would be similar to hotels: Individual rooms could be assigned as smoking rooms, and if the smoker has one of those, it's OK. But all common areas are smoke-free.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 12:16 PM

Skipy, our folk club used to be in an upstairs room of a pub, and the room was declared 'smoke-free'. The bar (and all of the smoking) was downstairs. By the end of the evening my clothes stank of fags and my eyes and throat were red-raw. I've noticed this phenomenon in many clubs which operate in seperate 'smoke-free' rooms. It's simple physics - air circulates, and takes the smoke with it.

Given the intractability of smokers such as yourself (and I'm happy to acknowledge that not all smokers are that way) the ban was inevitable and completely justified.

As has been said many times on here, if the smokers had behaved in a considerate way and gone outside for their fix, a ban would never have been necessary. You caused your own downfall by your stubbornness and now you're moaning that it's someone else's fault.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 12:27 PM

I have to travel for my job and stay in hotels/motels during the work week.
Every hotel that has smoking allowed in some rooms reeks with the smell.
I always ask for a non-smoking room, but whether the room is on a floor above
or below the smoking rooms, the smell always makes its way through the vent
system to my room. The only clean air rooms are those in hotels that are all
non-smoking or rooms in a separate building.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 12:54 PM

My intractabilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I attended Highworth folk club for many years before their self imposed smoking ban, and for many years after!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This can be checked out & has already been mentioned by a Highworth regular way back in the thread.
Do I smoke in singarounds anywhere, NO, do I / have I ever bleasted about it - NO! Do I smoke in Restarauts NO, do I bleat, NO. Do I go to London theatres , yes, bleat NO. Have I ever tried to have a crafy fag (English usage) on an aircraft, NO! Etc. Etc.!
This is about choices and errosion of rights. I TOTALLY respect your right not to breathe my smoke, however I TOTALLY believe that smokers have rights too.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 12:57 PM

our house is naturally a non-smoking home..

a few weeks ago a delivery driver knockeed on the front door with a parcel

he had a fag hanging out of his mouth..

in the minute or 2 it took to inspect and sign for the delivry,
even though he was standing outside on the front doorstep,
he exhaled enough of his noxious crap-cloud
to stink out our hallway and landing for at least a few hours later..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:11 PM

This is about choices and errosion of rights. I TOTALLY respect your right not to breathe my smoke

What rights did I have to go in a pub near me and not breathe second hand smoke? None at all. Where were my rights when the breweries and landlords had the choice to do something? Canceled by bar profits.

however I TOTALLY believe that smokers have rights too.

You DO still have the smoke. You can just no longer pretend that pushing your chair back behind the imaginery smoke barrier makes it OK for you to poison other people.

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:14 PM

...have the right to smoke, that should read.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:26 PM

Dave, you are really not getting this are you, I want seperate bars, sealed off from each other, or better still, non smoking & smoking pubs, chioce being up to the landlord.
As said previously, I never pretended that pushing my chair back made a differance, I just obey the rules!
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:28 PM

<<<<>>>

Ok, I see then that the problem is that you think if you are in a separate
room then no one has to breathe your smoke. The fact is that a separate
room does not keep the smoke away from other people in the building.
Smokers do not realize that the smell and the carcinogens permeate a
building where smoking is going on. It does not just stay in the smoking room.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:32 PM

It still comes back to the employee risk of second hand smoke.
I know that some employees smoke, too, but NOT ALL bar
employees smoke, and they are the ones that are working in
that environment every working day. Please read the research
in the article I linked to. This is a matter of preventing DEATH and
health problems in non-smokers who have to work around smokers.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:36 PM

Long before there were any laws in town regulating smoking in public places, Juneau smokers didn't smoke in their own homes. I don't know even one smoker who does. I can't even imagine the shock in a music group if someone lit up.

I did have a tenant who smoked in his kitchen with the window open and a small fan operating. Every one of the others who smoked congregated outdoors.

Smokers in Juneau seem, if not content, at least resigned to it; it's just the way it is.

But then, we also leave our shoes and boots outside the door. Some people bring slippers to wear indoors, others remain in their stocking feet. It's just another way of avoiding bringing pollutants into our homes.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:06 PM

and

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:07 PM

and yes, 400 comments on this subject

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:08 PM

400

Pubs were closing in the UK at 50 a month before smoking.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:21 PM

A UK news report says the smoking ban will save 600 WORKER's lives a year.
Click here
"Around three times as many workers die from passive smoking than die from workplace accidents.
Research in Scotland has already shown that workers are now exposed to 86% less smoke, and air quality in most Scottish bars is now comparable with average outdoor air quality. "


If you can save lives by simply going outside to smoke, why wouldn't you?
Doesn't the right to health and life have more importance than being able to smoke inside?
You can still smoke, just keep it outside. Even if a business wanted to be for only smoking
customers, they would not probably be able to hire a staff that is totally smokers.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:23 PM

We can contain radiation, we can contain liquid helium, surely we can contain cigarette smoke. We don't need staff! We can be served remotely our money can be taken electronically. The venue can have it's air filtered overnight before the cleaners come in!
They could even wear suits and respirators as with asbestos! Yes, this would cost, so we would have to pay more for our beer.
Try thinking outside the box instead of just attacking smokers, believe it or not we are people too! We also have feelings!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:29 PM

Alice, on the subject of non-smoking rooms getting the smoke through the ventilation system: Bar one or two exceptions, I haven't found that (I usually book non-smoking rooms despite being a smoker), but you'll be pleased to hear that the new legislations stipulates that from now on any hotel rooms where smoking would be permitted would have to be permanently assigned for the purpose and be on a separate ventilation system. I think the majority of hotels would not consider the expense worth it - could be wrong of course.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 04:12 PM

Oh dear Skipy, please read my first paragraph again, then again, and again and again and agin until you get it! Smoke travels. It can't be contained. Every time a door's opened, air containing smoke moves in and out. You can't have a 'sealed room' - if it's sealed, how do you get in and out to go to the bar or the bog? Every time you do that, the smoke (which would get pretty thick and unpleasant, even for hardened addicts, in a 'sealed room') moves out with you.

Skipy, it's not about preventing you from smoking - smoke to your heart's content and do it with my best wishes for your health and happiness. Just don't do it where it affects others who find it revolting. GO to the pub, ENJOY a few pints in the bar, SMOKE outside and do it with good grace - everyone (including the landlord and me) will LOVE you for it. :-)

S:0)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 04:58 PM

I am pretty certain that if I smoked I would prefer a set up where I use the same pub as my mates, and nip out for a smoke when I needed to, rather than one where we were all split up drinking in different places according to whether we smoked or not. I balance I think I'd prefer the new situation to the one skipy favours.

I know an old bloke who loves playing music, and makes instruments and all - and he'd love to be able to join in sessions, but he can't, because they are always in pubs where smoking has been allowed. Even if there's one person smoking that badly affects his breathing.

Now at last after years where the only chance of a session he ever had was sometimes in a festival, he'll have the freedom to come to local stuff.

Anyway laws can - all it takes is for a majority of MPs to come round to the idea that there should be legal smokeasies. They might take some persuading of course.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 05:06 PM

Backwoodsman, if the room we smoke in has no door opening into a non smoking area, e.g. it's only doors are an in / out to the street & of course a fire door to the outside at the back of the building & the bogs are internal to the building there can be no problem.
Skipy
Just for the record, I was deeply saddened to read what your went through some years ago re smoking, that must have been beyond terrible.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:03 PM

Dave, you are really not getting this are you, I want seperate bars, sealed off from each other, or better still, non smoking & smoking pubs, chioce being up to the landlord.

Hooray! I had it ages ago, skipy, it was you that didn't! Yes, absolutley. We need seperate venues for smokers and non-smokers. That is what we now have. You smoke in your house. I don't smoke in mine. Easy. Now, about this seperate pubs idea. Would you also suggest serperate pubs for black and white people? Seperate bars for the Jews maybe? Or is it just smokers and other drug addicts that you want to segregate from normal society? No wonder you read the BNP site every couple of weeks;-)

On a more serious note, you have already said that pubs will lose money due to not allowing smokers. I don't believe it myself but how many landlords do you believe will take that chance if this wonderful idea of yours became reality? How many non-smoking pubs were there before the 'ban'? 70+%, representing the number of non-smokers? No chance. Maybe 50%? No? Perhaps 10%? I doubt it.

How many times do I have to say it. The landlords and pub owners have had the choice to make their pubs non-smoking for the last 50 years at least. They haven't done it before now. What makes you think that given the choice they would do it in the future? Your arguments are spurious at the very least and do not do you any credit. At least have the decency to give this different approach a fair chance when the old one has obviously failed.

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:08 PM

Thanks Skipy, still painful after many years. I appreciate your kind comments.
S:0)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:12 PM

And thanks to you too, George. I'll hold you to that pint (beer for you, of course, but a 'softie' for me as I no longer take alcohol for health reasons - life's a bitch sometimes!) :-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:30 PM

Dave, you have really let yourself down here,
we are dug in now in trenches rather like the first world war, however only one side is hurling munitions at the other & that is the non smokers, you in particular firing at me & I am not firing back, I find your comments and insinuations about racism & anti semetic behaviour profoundly offensive, come to my place of work where I have masses of Kenyans working for me, interview as many of them as you like & I rest assured that not one of them will say a word against me.
There are many of my friends in the folk world who has heard me praise them wholeheartedly in comparison with the feckless "locals" that I have to put up with.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:50 PM

Peace pipe anyone?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:59 PM

Only if I can smoke it in the pub.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:57 PM

Naah - out in the pub garden would be much better. I quite like the smell of pipe smoke - just not indoors.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 04:13 AM

I don't know where you are getting the idea that I am insinuationg anything about you, skipy. Does smoking cause either paranoia or the inability to read posts properly? Go back and try again and you will see that I am likening the idea of segregating differently abled persons (ie, smokers) into seperate pubs, which you are suggesting, to segregating people on the grounds of colour or creed. It makes about as much sense. How does that insinuate that you are racist? Or are you maybe feeling rather touchy at the hypocrisy of admiting to reading the BNP web site while working with and praising so many Kenyan immigrants?

The only reason that I appear to be 'firing at you' is that you are the only one on this thread remaining entrenched in the view that the pub owners are the victims here. In addition, your assertion that you will stop doing charity work as a protest is as ridiculous as it is futile. You are better than that and I am hoping to make you see sense. Like you, I do not believe the cause is lost:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 04:48 AM

Dave
My connection with the BNP is that I have read their site as they are preparing to counter attack on the smoking law, no other connection at all! Most of what I have read is abstract lunacy.
I am conservative throuh & through (being 26 years in the military this is not surprising!) I even deliver leaflets for the local conservative candidate because he has had a stoke! Just for the record he ran a folk club for 20+ years, which he offered to me but with my other commitments there is no way I could fit it in.
Also last night I agreed to carry on with my work, we will now be meeting at a friends house where all 4 of us will smoke as much as we can!
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:24 AM

I am realy glad to hear that you are not with the BNP, skipy, but you must understand how I was so confused over your politcal affiliations. These are all your own posts...

I have become active with a "smaller" party ????

BNP ?????

CORRECT
Skipy

BNP is not the party it used to be, check their web site, read what they have to say.

Acctually I don't think the BNP does support smoking I don't know for sure I haven't checked but there again have you?

You then moved on to

O/K "active" means I read their bloody website, about once a fortnight, if I remember to do so! Thats ALL!

and finaly

My connection with the BNP is that I have read their site as they are preparing to counter attack on the smoking law, no other connection at all! Most of what I have read is abstract lunacy.

All in the space of a week or two! I guess you are just using the BNP view to counterpoint those of the others but it is very difficult to spot what your views actualy are if you keep giving us conflicting information!

You have also changed considerably on another front!

Remember saying -

what is the point of that, so why go, so why run a charity, why bother to run a festival! The whole of my life may well change, I mmay leave folk music & charity behind me.

Well, you did.

What about

Tonight however I signed the cheques for the staff of the Old Mill Hall for the last time, end of an era - 11 years of attending a meeting every Monday, so who is going to do it from hereon in? well they will have to find a non smoker! There should be a meeting this Friday for the events of the weekend, non smoker needed or it will not be monitored for sound, health & safety etc.
Scout meeting next week, I won't be there, cub meeting the following week, well get someone else to repair the building, because I won't be there.

Yep, you said that as well.

You now say -

Also last night I agreed to carry on with my work...

What has caused these huge changes of viewpoint and attitude may I ask? For a man with an IQ of over 140 you seem to struggle a bit with logic and consistancy. May I suggest that rather than using inconsistant devices and false logic to back up your specious claims it would be better if you just admit that you are annoyed at the legislation for political and personal reasons? No-one will think any less of you.

I am more than happy to admit that I am arguing now just because I am enjoying it. I don't feel the need to justify myself. I also freely admit that some of your principles are spot on. I actualy bought a packet of cigars last week so I could smoke in a pub for one last time. People SHOULD have the right to smoke and drink. Pubs SHOULD have done something sensible for non-smokers rather than being forced to. Unfortunately they didn't and no amount of harping on about it will change history. Particularly when the harps are so badly tuned? :-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:35 AM

BNP are going to challenge the smoking ban, now here is the big confession!
I didn't even sign their petition because there is no way that I am willingly going to give them my email address!
Yes, I am furious that nothing has been done for smokers, I am furious about the errosion of rights & the constant PC crap that we bow down to.
I am carrying on because the non smokers do need my help! Albiet begrudgingly I will help where I can, it's in my nature.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:38 AM

Well done Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 07:32 AM

Well done indeed that man:-) There is nothing in there I can argue with apart from one point of pedantry - but just for old times sake I will mention it:-)

It is not 'erosion of rights' it should be 'erosion of MY rights'. The fact that your rights to smoke where you like no longer exist is a sore point but the right for people to not breathe your smoke has increased enormously. The rights of 70% of people to not breathe smoke are more than double the rights of the 30% of smokers so, therefore, on balance, rights have actualy INCREASED rather than decreased. I will let it go though because I think everyone understands that you are refering to your own personal rights rather than good of the majority.

What am I going to do with the rest of my day now...;-)

Cheers

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 07:38 AM

I take your point & agree if yoy read back you will see that I have supported the right for non smokers to have clean air, hence my desire for non smoking pubs & smoking pubs.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 08:18 AM

Ahhhh, that's better. I'll definitely be fighting back if you take my pint...

Oh, sorry, pOint! :-P

OK - Devils advocate hat on. If I were to agree that smoking and non-smoking pubs were a good idea, how would it work? Assuming that 30% of the population are smokers would you agree that having 30% of pubs as smoking venues would be fair? I hope so. OK. Which 30% of the pubs become the smokers ones? Who decides? Would you not then have the same situation that you are complaining about - Ie that someone is imposing their will on the pubs? If so, we would therefore need some other way of doing it.

How about 30% of pubs volunteer to be smokers pubs? Can you or I, or anyone else for that matter, be sure that the 30% would be achieved? Would more pubs volunteer because, as you believe, smoking pubs make more money? Would less volunteer because, as I believe, non-smoking pubs make more money? What if there is only one or two pubs in the area? Fine for me - There are 30, leaving me 20 to go in. What about you though with only 2 pubs? How do you get 30% of 2 and still have seperate buildings? Do we now have to start saying that 30% of ALL premises (and not just pubs!) have to be put aside for smokers? How do we achieve that? How much is it going to cost to achieve that? Who is going to pay?

How about having a division where, as suggested, smoking pubs do not serve food? DO you think the landlords will be happy to loose the high-profit food business in return for the low-profit tobacco sales? What about our folk club? There are three of us running it. 2 don't smoke, one does. Do we have to have seperate nights out from our closest friends, family and spouses because we cannot sit in the same pubs and maintain everyones rights at the same time?

I put it to you that one law for everyone and every situation is a much fairer way than what you are suggesting. Now EVERYONE is on an even footing. All pubs are safe in the knowledge that non of them have any unfair advantage. All non-smokers are happy that they can go inside a pub without being subjected to smoke. All smokers are happy in that they can smoke OUTSIDE whichever pub they like.

Explain to me a workable model of what you suggest, covering all the above points and I will agree that it is better idea than the ban. If nothing else please think it through.

Beats doing what I am supposed to be doing anyday...:-D

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Busy
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 10:18 AM

Some folk have FAR too much time on their hands

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM

Your only jelous:-) I get paid far too much and enjoy myself far too much as well!

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,the one
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:42 AM

does any one find it hard to give up passive smoking im'e finding it hell i might try used patches pip.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GALLINGER
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:56 AM

YER I FIND MYSELF HANGING ROUND OFFICE BUILDINGS AT BREAK TIMES

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:58 AM

The answer, my friend GUEST the one, is blowing with the wind...

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 04:40 PM

It'll be interesting to see what social innovations come out of this.

One is going to be people finding ways of allowing social smoking indoors to continue, legally or illegally. And they will.

Another will be the return of snuff-taking in pubs and similar.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 05:14 PM

One of course would be this:
thread.cfm?threadid=102925&messages=29

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 05:32 PM

Precisely. What I have in mind is that when they changed the law back in 1964 and effectively made it impossible to use coffee bars for live music in the way skiffle groups had, no one would have envisaged that folk clubs in pub function rooms would take off. Laws always have outcome that weren't quite predicted.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kara
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 05:44 PM

Hello
I haven't read all this thread as it is so long, so if I am repeteing what has already been said I'm sorry. I live in france where there are still a lot of people who smoke, and going into bars is so unpleasantly smokey that I try to avoid it. There is a plan to ban smoking here in bars but it is getting a lot of resistance. Its is strange though that the same people who support fair trade and buy organic are also supporting a business that has been built on the back of slavery.

There are big posters in most bars here now saying " In one year my business could be closed because of the smoking ban"

In the last 3 years I have lost 3 good friends to lung cancer, thats not a "could be" thats a done thing.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Kampervan
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:36 AM

Well as we all know it is now a done deal so it's a bit academic to argue about whether it was right or not.

But one undeniable fact that has arisen during the first week of the ban is that pub takings for at least one brewery are a lot lower than they were before the ban.

I'm not arguing either way about the ban, just stating a fact.

The pubs have been cleaned, polished and, in some cases redecorated, but there has been absolutely no sign of all those people who hate tobacco smoke suddenly making a bee-line for the new sweet-smelling, smoke-free environment that they were so vocal about wanting.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 04:33 AM

I don't think it will be all of a sudden - these things do take time. The experience of pubs in Scotland, Ireland and Wales is that the alcohol takings are about the same, or slightly less, but pub takings by way of food and snacks are up. That suits me fine. The breweries and distileries have made mega profits for years while landlords and managers tend to fall behind. The good landlord will now realise that food has a much better profit margin anyway and some of the money will be shifted from the big boys to the little fish and, hopefuly, keep the money in the community pub. Seems to be happening elsewhere anyway. I hope England follows suit!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 04:52 AM

BTW - I heard from skipy that he didn't want to continue the debate so it now falls to me to argue both sides. Bugger!

The questions I last posed were to concentrate the mind on a better solution that did suit everyone. How about this. A smoke room licence. We have always had to have a licence for pubs. We now need a licence for music. TV watching is taxed and even dogs need their bit of paper! (Is that still true?) What is wrong with having a licensed smoke room? It would need to be sealed off from the rest of the premises with ventilation capable of ensuring that the smoke or smells did not carry. It could be inspected every year and at random to make sure it still did the job. There could be a charge for it, generating more revenue for the local council and smokers would need to ensure it was kept in reasonable shape by emptying their own ashtrays into sealed containers for disposal!

Would it work?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:13 AM

No

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:56 AM

Correct Les, it wouldn't.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:03 AM

Awwww - c'mon guys. At least let me know why. I put all that work in building the idea. You can't demolish it just by saying no! Anyway, my Dad's bigger than yours... :-)

D.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:05 AM

It's not that I don't want to continue, this ban has taken everything out of me & from me.
I am too tired & depressed to continue.
Skipy

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:06 AM

Don't worry, skip - I can play both sides:-)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 07:22 AM

even dogs need their bit of paper! (Is that still true?)

No. They abolished the dog licence years ago. I never quite understood why. There are people who are not fit to have dogs.
.........................

I think the smoking room licence Dave Polshaw suggests there would be quite a reasonable thing. I think it'd probably be unlikely to be financially viable as a commercial venture, given that it couldn't very well be connected to the bar area, and it'd have to be a non-work area, so the users would have to take care of it. But with some kind of club membership where committee members did the work and carryied the respnsibility for taking care of business...

One effect of the ban which I don't think may have been envisaged is the effect on Shisha cafés -

"Shisha cafes, in which pipes can be shared between friends, are seen as an alternative to the pub for a social night out. Inside the lounge-like cafes, sweet fragrant smoke fills the air and a fusion of Arabic, Asian and hip-hop music beats in the background. Part of the attraction of shisha is that smoking through a pipe makes the tobacco last longer, and that passing the pipe is a communal activity."

I suspect that one way and another there will be some modifications to the present overall ban. And that's no problem to me, so long as I'll still be able to go down the oub and nit have second-hand smoke forced upon me, which is a freedom I have really enjoyed these last few days.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 07:45 AM

"Well as we all know it is now a done deal so it's a bit academic to argue about whether it was right or not.

But one undeniable fact that has arisen during the first week of the ban is that pub takings for at least one brewery are a lot lower than they were before the ban.

I'm not arguing either way about the ban, just stating a fact.

The pubs have been cleaned, polished and, in some cases redecorated, but there has been absolutely no sign of all those people who hate tobacco smoke suddenly making a bee-line for the new sweet-smelling, smoke-free environment that they were so vocal about wanting. "



..another instance of a Kampervan talking out of its exhaust pipe !!!???


i] its the most miserable july weather so far on record ?

[but the best of all possible conditions for enjoying watching dejected smokers suddenly struggling to cope with their addiction
outside in the wind driven pouring rain]

ii] everbody needs time to adapt to the new pub laws,
and adapt their spare time / spare cash & social lives to the new increased options
for a 'good night out'..

iii] school summer holidays have not started yet..

wait till all the teachers are let out for over a month of relentless daytime boozing !!!


iv] me.. I'm waiting at least a week for my local to 'air out'
and the stench to of stale smoke to diminish..
and to avoid the usual selfish old fag dependant ****s persistent self indulgent whining
as they get used to parading outside to shiver under an umbrella !!!!



cheers for a better & healthier future

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,GEUST
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 08:04 AM

btw..

you's might be interested in
Ted Tuppen
Chief Executive, Enterprise Inns

comments in positive support of the ban..



http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/bottomline/bottomline.shtml





..but no transcript seems to be available, and perhaps less than 1 day left
to 'listen again'

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 11:41 AM

So much grief & sorrow in this thread!

Now for something completely different!


Mr Happy's Come All Ye in the Union Vaults, Chester was still going strong this week.

Granted, the premises did seem noticeably emptier than usual in the other rooms, but the sesh area still had all the regulars.

Only meself,Anna & Phil[both blind] are smokers, but we went out to the new, almost completed covered area for a gasper.

As I remarked earlier about my experiences in a Welsh folk sesh around April, being obliged to remove oneself to the great outdoors for a fag opens up new & unexpected opportunities to chat with others who you wouldn't usually meet.

The same occured on Wednesday night too & we found it a additionally pleasureable part of our evening.

To Skipy et al, don't be downhearted - we're adaptable creatures us humans - so we'll adapt in a positive way - who knows - if the weather ever bucks up - could be sesses outside - yippee! - just like being at a festival!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:01 PM

Outside sessions - that'd be good - though when there's no walls or roof the sound tends to die away rather.

The only time I feel like smoking tobacco is when I come up against people going on like GUEST,GEUST :"...the usual selfish old fag dependant ****s persistent self indulgent ..."

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:11 PM

'though when there's no walls or roof the sound tends to die away rather'


Most've the pub shelters I've seen up to now have partial wall + a roof - some even have heaters, FAB!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:17 PM

sorry [no i'm not !] to piss on the dog-end..

but, i'll quote me fom earlier in this thread..

##############################

"Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:21 AM

sat at an open air gig in the backyard of a pub last weekend..

sun was fierce enough to need to sit at a table under a parasol..



..totally surrounded by gormlessly oblivious ill seedy looking chain smokers
and wrinkly druggies smoking spliffs..


some of them had their young kids and toddlers jammed in amongst them..


the new pub restrictions are not positive & protective enough..

i'd have voted for a total ban on any smoking in all pub premises
including yards, gardens,
and within a stricly enforced wide area
surrounding all entrances and exits.."

##########################################



..sounds reasonable enough to me..!!!!!?????


but then i dedicate about 12 hours a week of my precious time
to maintaining superior fitness [for my age]
down t'gym..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:19 PM

.. and that guest was me forgetting to type my name in again..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:25 PM

"sat at an open air gig in the backyard of a pub last weekend...sun was fierce enough to need to sit at a table under a parasol...totally surrounded by gormlessly oblivious ill seedy looking chain smokers
and wrinkly druggies smoking spliffs..."

That sounds quite enjoyable to me.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:30 PM

hmmm.. oh well..

its just dawned on me how badly i'll be affected by this ban..


..i'll no longer ever be able to enjoy taking a brief break
for reflective contemplation
whilst i hone my target practice skills on
a soggy fragmenting dog-end in a pub urinal..

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:54 PM

As I like to sit outside in the beer gardens during the summer, I have just realised that I now will become a passive smoker from all the smokers who will be hogging the beer garden.

Ah well, I will just have to sit inside.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM

10!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 10:21 AM

First ciggie-free session at the 'Eel's Foot' this week proved a rather disjointed affair. Normally the music has gone 'round the room' with hardly a pause between 8 pm and the latest time at night legally permissable. This week, various smokers had to struggle through the crowd (it's a fairly small room)from time to time, stepping over instruments and sometimes missing their turn before they came back in again. On the face of it, nothing had changed - we all enjoyed the session, and as usual a few unsuspecting visitors had an evening they weren't expecting. But it just didn't flow like it used to - maybe it's just early days, and I for one love the clean air, but at the moment, something's been gained, something's been lost.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 06:24 PM

Sessions in bars have had to live with the smoke - but when it comes to using function rooms in pubs and so forth, I can't remember the last time I ever saw anyone light up.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Pistachio
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 05:03 PM

Just want to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the first Folk Festival as a non passive smoker. No stinky clothes to pack away in a plastic bag within my motorhome, no smoke tainted pillowcase as I waken, no taking an involuntary breathful of exhaled gubbins mid song. Altogether refreshingly 'fresh' air'.
All that concerned me was a huge yellow tinted cloud hanging over the Hull area as I returned East from Cleckheaton!
Answers on a postcard please...!
Thank you, and goodnight.
Hazel.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Rustic Rebel
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 11:17 PM

30% of the UK population you say Dave are smokers?
That means 18,232,871 people (2007 population-60,776,238).
I believe it's the opposite in my town and bar. It's about 10% (20% max) non-smokers that come into the bar. That will be a big impact on the bar owner/customers when the ban comes into effect in October.
Going outside when it's 20 below zero F. will not be as pleasant as standing under an umbrella to get away from the sun.


Skipy-I'm sending you some energy brother-Keep up the fight!!

Rustic

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 08:59 AM

If eight out of ten people in the bar were smoking it's hardly surprising non-smokers kept away.

"...when the ban comes into effect in October."

Where'd that be Rustic Rebel?

I gather there's still one place in the British Isles people can still go to smoke in pubs - the Isle of Man.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:27 AM

Don't think it ever goes to 12 degrees F on the IOM McG - Too near the gulf stream!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:50 AM

First ciggie-free session at the 'Eel's Foot' this week proved a rather disjointed affair.

Well, it's always been illegal to smoke that kind of ciggy....

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:42 AM

I was in the Rockcliffe arms in Whitley Bay last night and the effect on custom was certainly un-noticeable. What was different though was something I had not thought of. There seemed to be a dominoes competion going on and between each game people were poping out for a smoke. It seemed, very oddly, more like a 'sporting event' than it ever seemed before with defined times between 'Game on' and breaks. Everyone seemed to be happy with th earrangement anyway:-)

Off to the Black Horse tonight for my first smoke free open mic. night.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: mandotim
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:09 PM

My local is taking this very seriously; the following measures have come into effect;
-No smoking
-Smoky bacon crisps and Smoked Mackerel Pate are off the menu
-Several tracks have disappeared from the jukebox, including 'Smoke Gets in your Eyes, Smoke on the Water, Cigarettes and Whisky, Bach's Air on the G String and anything at all by Smokie.
-Smokin' Joe Frazier has been barred indefinitely

Also, an itinerant didgeridoo player was thrown out 'on suspicion'.

The landlord likes a spot of irony...
Tim ;)

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:06 PM

Black Horse was good. Not the fullest I have seen it but far from the emptiest:-) Even Steve the organiser, who smokes more than a smoking thing that smokes a lot, seemed to be quite happy.

Of course now that people have to smoke outside the landlord has no idea what they are mixing with their baccy...

:D

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:42 PM

Of course now that people have to smoke outside the landlord has no idea what they are mixing with their baccy...

That had occurred to me as one of the possible advantages of the new situation. One of the unanticipated consequences that new laws always tend to give rise to.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: terrier
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 06:26 PM

I believe that Stoke On Trent have fouled up and not done their paperwork properly allowing smoking to continue for another month! Pub smokers are making good use of the temporary reprieve. They're calling it 'Smoke On Trent'.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:01 AM

best thing thats ever happened,no more sore throats.I CAN SING CLEARLY NOW,THE SMOKE HAS GONE.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: MBSGeorge
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 06:52 PM

The smoking ban is ridiculous - e.g. No smoking in works vehicles - What if you are self employed and are the only employee and own your own van - not allowed to smoke - what if said van is your only transport - still not allowed to smoke! My husband drives a works van - belongs to the company - he is the only person who uses it - he works alone - still not allowed to smoke in the van!! Next they will ban all smoking when driving!! It is ridiculous - you should only be banned from smoking in works vehicles if you are carrying 1 or more passengers. What happened to free will? Surely this is some sort of breach of human rights - smoking is not totally illegal so therefore it is a breach of human rights for smokers!

Bloody government only make laws that suit them.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: DougR
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 07:52 PM

What about the "free will" for those non-smokers who prefer a clean envirnoment in which to enjoy their pint? Don't they have rights too?

DougR

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: John J
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 02:18 AM

As a life-long non-smoker I welcome the smoking ban, it's lovely to go to the pub and breathe smoke-free air. It's also going to save on my laundry bills, my clothes don't pong. However I'm sure that has all been said / argued about before.

Regarding the post by MBSGeorge regarding the smoking-whilst-driving, as a cyclist and an ex-motorcyclist I find the axiom 'beware the car / van / truck driver who is smoking' is a good life preserver.

Just my thoughts.

JJ

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 03:44 AM

I'm not a smoker, and I'm happy for any measures that mean I don't have to be a passive smoker, but I do sympathise with MBSGeorge about not being able to smoke in a works vehicle with nobody else there. That is a bit rough, and I think it's taking the ban too far.

If it was a rule of the company because they didn't want their trim stained with nicotine, they would have a right, but otherwise this seems like a ridiculous rule.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:33 AM

Up here in Scotland, snuff has not taken off as an alternative. There was a regular in Sandy Bells who used to be a snuff taker and handed it round in the pub. He was back from Canada last weekend for the first time since the ban; no snuff in sight. And I haven't noticed any more of it on sale.

The most immediate change I noticed in pub sessions in Scotland was how much quieter the punters were - suddenly it was *far* easier for the musicians to hear each other, even with more people in the bar. I think the reason may have been indirect; it takes time for the volume of a pub conversation to build up, and having the smokers go outside every so often had the effect of resetting the volume to its starting level.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:51 AM

MBSGeorge - All is not lost.

I quote from the official HM Government document sent to me telling me how to implement the rules

The new law will require vehicles to be smokefree at all times if they are used:-

To transport members of the public.

In the course of paid or voluntary work by more than one person - regadless of whether or not they are in the vehicle at the same time.

If MBSGeorge is the only person who uses his vehicle then he can smoke in it.

Don't let's extend this ban further than is necessary!

K/van

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:35 PM

It seems to me a lot of people haven't bothered to check up what the law actually says, and have assumed it goes further than it actually does.

But I'm still puzzled why there should be any requirement to have no smoking notices in any enclosed premises open to the public now that there is a national ban on smoking in such places.

I imagine it's based on some idea that, in the absence of such notices, it might be possible for someone to argue that they didn't know smoking was banned - but that just seems ridiculous. I can't imagine how any court could accept such a defence.

It'd be rather as if someone being done for driving at 80 mph, on a road where the National Speed Limit was in force, were to try to claim that they thought the National Speed Limit was 80 mph. "Well, there weren't any notices indicating the maximum speed allowed". Fat chance!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Jimson
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:34 AM

Yes...I remember Dominos.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:53 PM

I think the no smoking signs should be in braille as well for people who can't see and messages that announce "No Smoking" when you walk into the bar (a bit like "mind the gap" on the tubes).

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:03 PM

Jimson
You do? Bloody marvelous, I was beginning to think I'd imagined them. Thank you!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:12 PM

I always called them donkymose

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 10:33 AM

Shouldn't this now be '15 days of non-smoking (UK)?

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 02:39 AM

Oh don't be so boringly logical Rog Peek.

This now-outdated thread title is the one that we've grown to know and love. The one that we daily check to see what new postings there are.

Self-righteous, pompous, funny, some very erudite comments made with a rapier-like thrust - they're all here. Don't lets change the name.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 12:51 PM

You're right, it was irritatingly boring, I can only apologise.
Rog

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:24 AM

OK - I promised I would comment on how the smoking ban had affected the pubs near me after 1st July last year so hear goes. First the list of pubs -

Irlams o'th' Height

Red Lion
Wellington
Dog and Partridge
Wagon and Horses
St Lukes social club

Salford

The Hope
(There are dozens just outside the circle but I don't go in any!)

Swinton

Farmers Arms
Cricketers
White Lion
St Marys social club
Park Inn
White Swan
Staff of Life
Buckley
Bull
Football
Weavers
British Legion

Pendlebury

Royal Oak
Albert (Currently closed - may re-open yet. I dunno.)
The Pendlebury
Bowling Green
British Legion
Newmarket
Nelson
Britannia
Showboat
Borough Social

So - nearly 30 pubs. The predictions were anything ranging from none to 50% of pubs would close. I predicted that 10% would be pushing it so, here goes.

Closed pubs -

Albert (Was closed prior to the 'ban' and is still closed. Can't realy count this.

Dog and Partridge. Closed down by the police due to the second shooting in 3 months. Can we put this down to the 'ban'? Maybe the shootings were by frustrated smokers.

The Pendlebury - For Sale
The Weavers - For Sale.

That's it.

2 out of nearly 30 pubs closed 'voluntarily'. 1 forcibly closed by the authorities.

So, my 10% prediction was not too far off. Hardly devastating is it?

Dave.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:56 AM

They're dropping like flies here in Herefordshire.

One local pub to me has decided not to obey the law and is allowing smoking.

Sal

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:18 AM

Herefordshire is a big place, Sal! How many pubs are there? How many have closed? What sort of percentage? How much is due to the smoking ban and how much is it the recession? Is it above or below the national average? Lots of questions need addressing here before we can categoricaly say that, as your comment suggests, a large majority are closing and that it is due to the smoking ban!

I am sure the pub that is allowing smoking will soon be on the list of closed ones as well though. Do they not know that their licence can be revoked? I suspect it is just a publicity gimmick.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: goatfell
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:10 AM

In Scotland only a quarter of people smoke, so three quarters of people don't smoke, so this is the minority telling the majority that they are wrong.

Cough, Spluttter, die

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 12:55 PM

It's also illegal to smoke in doorways. At session last night everyone could smell the smoke drifting back from the pub doorway through saloon-type doors. The bar tender had to use some heavy persuasion to move the smoker out into the street, where it was pouring with rain!
I had this theory that smokers would give up, faced with the discomforts of hanging around outside pubs in the freezing cold or pouring rain, but seems they prefer to martyr themselves still further in pursuit of their journey to ill-health. And I've heard it's led to new relationshiops being struck up, divorces, etc, as smokers congregate outside whatever buildings.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Blowzabella
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 01:07 PM

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the smoking ban, Goatfell, I am not necessarily of the opinion that, on occasion, the minority shouldn't tell the majority what to do. If we went down the route of the majority having the say so everytime, believe me, we'd have a lot less variety in our lives than we have now and the chances are that there would be even less folk-friendly environments than there are

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:13 PM

There's a letter in todays Telegraph complaining about the smokers (and smoke) in the beer garden of a pub. The author doesn't seem to appreciate that the beer garden is full of smokers because they have been sent outside from the pub!
It's a case of "When we want to drink inside (in the winter) the smokers should be banned (sent outside). When we want to drink outside (in the summer) the drinkers should go somewhere else.

Even as a non-smoker I find the attitudes very confusing!

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: GUEST,some name I used last year on this thread
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:22 PM

as a none smoker myself,

"Even as a non-smoker I find the attitudes very confusing!"

yes.. history is so littered with confused and self profiting

tyranical staas quo appeasers...

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:42 AM

At the upscale hotel where I work part time as a billing clerk, the hotel stipulates on the registration form that if "smoking is found to have occurred", there will be a $200 surcharge. As these billings are paid by corporations rather than individuals, I have no doubt but that the corporations would pony up.

However, there *is* a problem in the non-smoking rule that perhaps not too many foresaw. The mess.

Maybe in the UK all people, smokers included, are thoughtful and neat and clean. Not so in Juneau, Alaska.

The sidewalks (pavements) in front of not just the bars (pubs) but nearby shops every morning are littered with cigarette butts, the occasional empty beer can or bottle (nevermind that drinking outside is strictly verboten), empty cigarette packs and other scraps of paper and bits of traxh.

Bar keeps are out there every morning, sweeping and picking up, hosing off the concrete. This morning as I passed by with my little dog, a shop keeper warned me to swing wide, that there was 'barf' everywhere.

The city has installed metal containers on each of the trash bins on the sidewalks but they are obviously not being properly utilized.

Is there an answer? I feel like writing a letter to the local newspaper suggesting that those of us who are grateful for the smoke-free public places might wish to show up with the occasional broom just to help.

Subject: RE: 42 days to no smoking (UK)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:02 PM

Smoking in public places in Ireland is now a thing of the past.
Learn to live with it - longer!
Jim Carroll