BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP

Subject: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 03:30 PM

Is this a contradiction or requires more in depth analysis for the slightly more intelligent?

I am a one of many people who, unlike before, now vote BNP. It is of my opinion we have become a soft nation so dedicated to political correctness and keeping everyone happy that we have lost our way.

I am not racist. Many of my friends are Asian. All understand my vote. The fact is, if the BNP didn't have a thug element, and you listened to their leader's views, you would appreciate many of the points they make.

I am middle class. I work hard for my money, and pay all my taxes. But now the government believes it would be a good idea to slam a couple of hundred brand new houses in my district for Asylum Seekers, which is very close to the Peak District. Bear in mind this is a rich district compared to it's poor neighbouring town, Oldham.

I am not happy. The police have no powers to stop illegal immigrants. Instead, the government awards them with rent free housing, money, and even CARS to 'get to work.' One gentleman who could not even speak English crashed into my car. He lied about him having insurance, he did not have any. He lied when he said he had a license. He did not. This was what his friend was telling me, when he called him in. So now I, me, it was NOT my fault, now have to pay higher premiums because I have to make a no fault claim. And he gets away with a fine, no jail sentence. And he probably won't pay it.

So explain to me, am I wrong to vote BNP from my personal position?? I am very forgiving. I am a student and am faced with paying £3000 a year top up fees introduced by our government. I understand one shouldn't vote for someone else purely because of personal reasons. But I took the increase in loans in my stride. But now I am tired of it all.

I am sick of our country (the UK) being walked over. I do not want to live here anymore. I have been let down. My family have been let down. And honest citizens of this country have been let down. We are not the ones segregating ourselves. Muslims are always the first to mention religion. They build Mosques on our lands, and hide their faces. This is not our country's culture. THEY should adapt to ours if they want the priveledge of living in the UK. I would do exactly that if I was in their country. And now they're building a Bank of Islam in the UK...

And votes for the BNP continue to rise... what a surprise!

Kind Regards,

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 03:47 PM

I had a friend who used to say - "It's not about the money". But y'know - it was always about the money.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 03:50 PM

"I am not racist but I vote BNP"

I honestly thought this was the name of a song and wondered why it was below the line.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM

Josh, you're an idiot, [and a racist one at that], now kindly fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM

And of course you're a racist, Josh.

Of all the illegal immigrants who now live in the UK, you chose to focus on one group for all your wrath.

That's racism.



..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Jim Crow
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 04:39 PM

sIR jOhn you are making me love you more and more.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 04:50 PM

I can't imagine by what criteria you have come to the decision that you're not a racist.

Hard work and honesty did not get you a nice pure unadulterated place to live, it was an accident of birth.
In your case, a bad accident.

John

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 04:54 PM

Go burn your cross elsewhere you fascit pig!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:00 PM

Actually, Ellenpoly, that's not a very good definition of racism. Racism is holding negative views of a race of people without foundation in fact and based solely on the person's race.

What Josh is expressing is bias, not racism, and from what I saw during a recent visit to England there is pretty good reason for that bias.

Do you think the Irish have a right to want the English out? I'll bet you think Iraqis have a right to not want the U.S. in their land. So how can you — and all your ilk, if I'm guessing right about he basis for you name-calling — support the "national struggles" of the Irish against the English and Iraqis against Americans, and then condemn the English for getting upset what an alien culture imposes itself on them — and demands that they pay for it?

Seems to me you're a hypocrite, which is a lot lower on the food chain than someone who holds a justified bias against an interloper group set on changing HIS tradtions and asking him to pay for it.

Wesley — yeah, it may always be about the money.... Your point being....? If I'm going to give away my hard-earned money, I at least want to choose who I give it to. Don't you?

John from Hull — congratulations, you must have spent a lot of time looking up how to spell everything word in your post. Do you have any idea what the issue is?

And BTW, is that a personal invitation, or is your mother entertaining?

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:03 PM

Well it is about time you limey bastards got your comeuppance!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:18 PM

Thanks DDW for backing me, up, I was finding it hard to express myself but yes, I am bias. I'll say that straight up.

I wouldn't mind if immigrants turned things around and made money for themselves, but time and time again I have been proven wrong. They find loopholes in the system, cause crime in all sorts of areas and Mosques ARE a breeding ground for racism and terrorism on the west. We let one guy into our country, can't remember his name, but he had a hook instead of a hand, and he was quite openly telling people to reap terror on the west. This guy is banned from entering America yet the UK lets him in? What's going on????

And about 'limey bastards getting comeuppance, well I do think that is unfair. America have been throwing their weight around and now it looks like they're starting a Civil war in Iraq cos of their resorting to violence... before then, our British troops were doing quite well in Basra. Up until then anyway. And you wonder why 9/11 happened. And you wonder why America invaded Iraq cos of WMD's??? There were none! It was their thirst for Oil.

America is becoming undone. Just like the UK.

The future I fear, is very bleak.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: dunkel_esel
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:18 PM

Can you imagine what kind of troubles would force you to leave your home country (with which you shared language, culture, traditions, friends, family) and goto a foriegn country? I know for me, things would have to be pretty damn bad. Can you then imagine the desperation you would feel, when the developed country you were escaping to (which was your only chance of salvation) didnot let you in, not because it would be financially damaging to that country but because the general public saw you as theives and as inferior race? Can you then imageine what kind of desperation would force you into hiding in that country, with the chance of huge fines and imprisonment?

We would expect the same if we were in trouble. Another question - do you have a problem with American, French, Germans, etc getting citizenship in Britain (people from countries with good health care etc) as opposed to people in dire situations with no other option?

mjx

p.s Is a non-racist BNP voter not a contradiction in terms? p.p.s The BNP use the numbers 88 as a sort of emblem or something, which stands for heil hitler (H is the 8th letter of the alphabet). Do you want that kind of party looking after our country? I certainly don't.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:35 PM

There are always people who will take unfair advantage of help offered; bite the hand that feeds them, but that's not a good reason to stop helping altogether.

Sure, racism may not come into it, but bigotry against any down-and-outer who gets a lucky break is almost as ugly.

You'd like it here in Australia. Here we put asylum seekers into concentration camps.
It's our country after all, we can do what we like.
(That means "we" happen to be more powerful here just now. It wasn't always that way and probably won't be that way at some time in the future)

John

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:39 PM

ddw-I have plenty idea what the issue is, if you knew me, or anything about me, you would not need to ask that.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:58 PM

Dunkel,

Some good points there, if the BNP is indeed a front for neo-Nazis. I won't dispute that, but I have some difficulty with the dismissal of the reasons people are finding the ideas attractive.

I find your argument a bit thin on the desperation thing. Economic refugees shouldn't arrive expecting anything except a chance to earn their way in the society they want to join. I don't think anybody would have any problem with that — that's a time-honoured thing. It's the people who arrive claiming desperation, then ask that the hosts cater to their needs who piss me off.

I'm an American citizen who lives in Canada — I've been here since 1970 and never took Canadian citizenship because I hate nationalism almost as much as I hate religion and I saw no reason to throw off one to take on another. But I get pissed off at some people I know — Iraqis, by chance, tho' there are other groups who do the same thing — who live here in subsidized housing. Every member of the family works hard and they send their children to all kinds of schools and special lessons. That's wonderful, but they also send — by their own admission — almost half their total income back to Iraq to support relatives. So why the hell are they in subsidized housing, using my tax money?

I know other families who claimed refugee statu on the basis that they would be persecuted or killed if they return to their homes to live — but they fly back to visit family every year or two. Do you think the "danger" is a bit exaggerated?

Now, as far as troubles being so bad you have to leave your country.... It happens, but not nearly as often as "refugees" claim. More often than not, the ones fleeing "political" persecution are really fleeing poverty. I've got no problem with that. Give them A CHANCE, even give them a hand to get started, but let's show a little compassion for the people who have to pay for it, too. If it's determined that the "refugee claimants" are really fleeing economic conditions, not political unrest or civil war, then help them to stay where they are and build their own countries.

But, of course, that's been tried. And it usually results in the "helpers" — read "mostly Brits and Americans" being accused of trying to impose their cultures on the oppressed.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: brid widder
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:10 PM

'I am sick of our country (the UK) being walked over. I do not want to live here anymore.'....

so are you thinking of moving to another country and subjecting yourself to the sort of abuse many members of the BNP think is reasonable here?... or maybe you think you have every right to move to wherever you and your family can make a good life for yourself?

By the way this thread has also mentioned a real opportunity... John you'll like this....'they're building a Bank of Islam in the UK...'hooray!! the religion of Islam does not permit interest to be charged on loans...and also insists on ethical investment, accounts are available to non muslims...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:13 PM

Forgive me, SJFH, if I confuse you with the person who for some time now has wanted to discuss such burning issues as whether line dancing is crap and whether modern music is shite.... I should have realized that such intellectual pursuits would make you imminently qualified to comment on social and political issues of the world...

My humble apologies....

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:42 PM

www.islamic-bank.com

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:47 PM

ddw-Is English your first language?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:14 PM

What goes around comes around. It can be tricky sometimes when foreigners arrive and start changing things, but the British had centuries of doing exactly that across five continents for quite a few centuries. Fair does.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:31 PM

Yes, John, and I spent more than 30 years making my living at writing it. I can understand, however, that you might not recognize it. They say the average person's working vocabulary is about 600 words. When you learn your other 300, let me know.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:42 PM

I don't want to even give this thread creadence )and i hwvn't bothered reading the comments and also to make it very plain I am not very fond of "john from hull" however I refer to comments made by the right hon. gentlemen from hull some moments ago.

JfH first posting summed it up (4th post in this thread).

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:45 PM

BNP.

I watch the French open - that's Banque National du Paris, right?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:47 PM

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:49 PM

apart from the word "kindly" JFDI =

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:00 PM

Thank you, Cllr, for that enlightening contribution. You haven't read the thread, but you're willing to give your opinion on it's merits based on one silly comment that happens to agree with your preconceived notions? Sounds like a real basis for pride in your intellectual prowess and it makes me really glad you have a vote in a democratic country....

Sorta proves de Tocqueville's point, doesn't it?

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:12 PM

David and jOhn, you deserve a thread of your own. Thanks for the entertainment. Now what drivel were we wasting our time reading?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: emjay
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:19 PM

What's BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:23 PM

Josh,

I was hoping to learn more about this BNP before I gave my opinion but I really don't have to. Yes you are a racist. But I think there is hope for you.

I still don't know what the BNP is, but considering that you are saying they have a "thug" element I'm left to wonder if there is not another way for you to express your disatisfaction with your government's immigration policies.

It seems to me that the person who struck your car committed the crime of driving without insurance. I don't think it matters which country he was born in. If a Scot had committed the same crime would you now be railing against Scots?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:23 PM

I worked on encitement to racial hatred cases for the crown prosecution service. Im a conservative councillor politically responsible for fifty three million. I have a degree in politics and DDw I hae seen this crap masquerading as debate before. Trust me when I say I dont need to read this sort of justification it parades as discuusion when it is a poor attempt to recruit people. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Leadfingers
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:30 PM

I dont give a shit wether a man/woman is black or brown or yellow or white - (or tartan or even bloody polka dot) . If they are going to work to provide for themselves and NOT be parasites off those who ARE working then Good Luck to them . IF on the other hand any one wants to come to this country and be a sponger , wether Black etc etc I have NO time for them at all . Sadly , the B N P is attracting the sort of person who simply sees an 'Asylum Seeker' as a 'Threat' to
the 'British ' way of life . Equally sadly , there are far too many Liberal thinkers who are only too quick to shout 'Racist' at ANY attempt to maintain a standard of any kind . An immigrant from the Indian Subcontinent who's only words of English are 'Social Security'
is NOT an asset to the country , any more than an Irish Tinker , who
only knows how to trade in scrap , or an Australian Back Packer who
is free loading his way round the world . It is because we ,in our simplicity , let all and sundry in to Britain , that the people who
ONLY want to cause trouble are constantly given more ammumnition to
stir up unrest among those who , for whatever reason , are only too
susceptible to the blandishments of organisations like the B N P .

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:34 PM

ddw-I just wondered what an "everything word" was.
That's why I asked if English was your first language.


[If your going to take the piss out of my spelling/use of English, it might be an idea to check your own, you just end up looking silly otherwise]

The BNP is The British Nazi Party, a bunch of racist thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:55 PM

PS-ddw-in your post of 6.13PM, surely you mean "eminently"?
[imminently means about to happen]

for someone who has made their living through writing English, you are showing quite a piss poor performance on this thread!
may I suggest you invest in a dictionary?
you may find one useful for looking up words you don't understand.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:56 PM

PS-You spelt "realised" wrong as well.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:58 PM

and "recognise".

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:12 PM

British Nazi Party.

HAHAHAHA

You might be a racist when.......

Yeah, If you support someone who calls himself a Nazi, you might be a racist

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:21 PM

BNP is British National Party. From the reading I've done on the net, they seem to be a bit to the right of George Bush. You can find out more by googling the name or initials. I cannot find a platform or an official website. However, they probably have one to spout their party line. They seem not to like anyone who isn't white, and one of the articles said they don't like Jews either. I don't think they are neo-Nazi, but they're close. They support the notion of sending everybody back to their places of origin. I don't know what that would mean for those children born in the UK whose parents came from elsewhere. They seem to be reasonable until you actually read about them. They are racist, and there ain't no way to put spin on that. It's fact. However, they will likely garner only five percent of the vote, so they will remain a fringe party. I think the people of the UK ar too smart to fall for their bullshit. IMHO.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:28 PM

their official website is www.bnp.org.uk
they are a bunch of racist idiots, many of there members have convictions for violence, [including assault, grevious bodily harm, football related violence etc etc etc].

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:32 PM

Oh well that spoils my joke :)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:34 PM

217.206.205.89/Downloadfile. asp?file=19_19200303111626_92.doc

No Platform Policy      (google this)

I apologize. They ARE a Nazi party.

GUEST, Josh

Eat shit.

Bruce Murdoch

PS I live in Hinton, Alberta. If you visit Canada anytime soon, I would enjoy meeting you. I am very easy to find.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:22 AM

Fuck the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:28 AM

Ditto that!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 02:18 AM

The BNP have been proven to have connections to other white supremacist movements, their own members have been recorded spouting some very nasty things. They have appealed to people without the wit or intelligence to get past page three of the Sun or the soccer results and by their very actions have proven themselves a bunch of thugs led by a bunch of thugs.

If someone is sponging of the state then that is wrong and colour or creed is not the issue. Ditto when stirring up religeous intolerance and hatred.

Many immigrants to the UK bring skills and knowledge we need, or even doing jobs considered too menial. Many do come to get away from repressive regimes and that is OK by me. The fact that many are not well educated is not their fault. Often countries with totalitarian rule used education as a carrot dangled to make people conform or the poor sods cannot afford it or do not have access.

The caucasians in the UK are certainly not pure blooded but a great diversity of origins from Scandinavian, German, Dutch, French et al, plus a good mix of Scottish, Irish, Welsh.

Add to that the mix of of the non caucasian people that have come to the UK it adds to a great diversity which enriches our country.

Without the influence of all these peoples, their culture and their stories we would not have the diversity of music and art we enjoy today.

I doubt many Asian people ('friends'?) do actually understand your vote, especially as they have been on the receiving end of BNP literature and thuggery. They are proably being very polite and more cultured by not calling you a racist. When Asian people smile when being told something it is not a smile of agreement it is one of embarassment and incomprehension.

I will now genteely descend from my soapbox.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 05:39 AM

The BNP use the age old tactic of blaming someone else for all our ills. As did the National Socialist party in Germany did in the 1930's. To that extent it certainly is a racist organisation and uses race issues to further its own ends remorselesly. The popular press use the same tactic to promote their own sales.

The unfortunate thing is that lots of people begin to believe the spin by both polititians and the press and the end result can be as dreadful as what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany. You are probably not a Racist, Josh. You have just been misled by people who have their own agenda.

Try to get your own facts and figures and form your own opinions rather than believing everything you read. There are good and bad in all races and religions. There are as many if not more British born 'scroungers' than there are refugees receiving benefits. And us Brits have less of an excuse. There are as many if not more Christian thugs as there are Islamic loudmouths. But they do not sell newspapers.

Always remember that it easier to blame someone else for your troubles than it is to blame yourself. Political refugees are the current target but what happens when we get rid of them and the country is still is a bad state? We then get rid of Blacks? Then Catholics? Then people called Josh???

Vote for who you want to but make that decision on reason rather than hysteria. And don't expect not to be tarred with the same brush as the company you keep!

Cheers

Dave the Gnome
(Who's Father was a refugee from Poland after WW2)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Pied Piper
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 05:55 AM

"And then they came for me"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:27 AM

The problem now is the BNP are seeking votes by pretending to be respectable and implying that it is OK to vote BNP as a protest vote. If the main three political parties are thought to be failing then people do try to find an alternatives. While I might accept, and I mean Might accept, that some people vote BNP out of either ignorance or frustration with the alternatives, the arguments put forward by the originator of this thread are extremly typical of the propaganda BNP put forward I simply don't believe that it is an "ordinary joe" msaiking a justifacation. Because of my work on special cases for the Crown prosecution service Im very familiar with the style and themes that these people put forward.

an example
A typical trick is to find a local pub or community buliding and say that its going to be knocked down and a mosque has been planned instead. when a lout tried this particular lie on me I told him it was a fabrication and he beligerently asked me how I could deny it as he had it on good authority. I told him the truth that I was on the planning commitee and I bloody well knew it was a lie.
This thread was started to try and gain support for BNP. That is the bottom line. Finally If it looks like a duck walks like a duck and goes quack ITS A DUCK

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:42 AM

ddw/David, the fatal weakness in your argument is your naive belief that your cash and cushy lifestyle was "hard earned."

If guest Josh is sick of the UK, as he says he is, I hope he go off to one of the countries that asylum seekers are coming from where he will soon see that his and ddw's relative wealth is not hard-earned but results, as Guest John O 'Lennaine said, from an accident of birth.

Try being a child in India, the pair of you. Try being sold off at nine-years-old to a factory hundreds of miles from home, so that your family can survive. Try being chained, with four other kids, 24/7, to a block of concrete that can be moved around only by the five kids together and where the working day is 14 hours in conditions of extreme heat and, sometimes, extreme humidity.

And remember while you're there, that the differences in working conditions and standards of living you will experience are in large part a consequence of harsh trade barriers imposed on poor countries.

And don't come back.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:51 AM

The problem is, the BNP voices fears many feel, but no-one reading their literature or listening to them can fail to see their true colours.
There is a particular problem with Islam. It is, as I suppose all religions must be, completely non-democratic. Islamic countries have no distinction between church and state, so are inherently non-democratic - there is no such thing as a democratic Islamic state. All we see of Islamic countries is a series of states where there is no real creation of wealth other than by exploitation of natural resources, the majority of the population are kept poor, uneducated and in fear, where women are routinely subjugated, misused or sexually mutilated, and where the system perpetuates itself by means of mullahs shouting invective, and a religious police. Other religions and views are often ruthlessly suppressed, and there is usually massive corruption. When we see people in this country advocating the move towards such a state, it's little wonder we become uneasy...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Pied Piper
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:52 AM

Yes don't come back.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:53 AM

In Germany, where they also have many more road deaths than us, they set up a wrecked car by the side of the road at the site of the accident and erect sinister signs by it 'Just waiting for you...' etc

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM

McGrath rightly refers to British rule in the many countries they held in their sway, I am reading "William Russell, Special Correspondent, of The Times", his report on the Indian mutiny reveals the racism and intolerance of the British ruling class in India.
This was par for the course in all of the countries her or his majesties writ ran, as McGrath says "what goes round comes around"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:58 AM

Josh or may I call you bastard - fuck off
opps nearly went off on one then - but alas I'm quite sure that is exactly what you want. Crawl back into your sewer with the rest of the vermin (the vermin wont like it though)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:33 AM

what about this C of E Bishop who wants to ban the hymn I vow for thee my country because he thinks it is racist?

It seems to me that we are losing our English identity.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:43 AM

According to the Guardian, he does not want to "ban it because it is racist" , he thinks it ought not to be sung in Church because the first verse in particular is over-nationalistic, placing country above God. Whether you agree or not, it seems perfectly proper for a Bishop to be concerned about such things.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:01 PM

It may be interesting to read peoples comments if we started a new thread on this subject.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:11 PM

Feel free to create one!

According to the Guardian article, what he said was:

"But any notion of national superiority or fierce independence while pouring scorn on our neighbours is profoundly unchristian and wrong." And that he is suspicious of "a white dominated simple world of Englishness where pounds and not euros, gallons and not litres, reign supreme".


It's an interesting definition that makes that a racist remark.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: ddw
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:09 PM

John from Hull — good catch on the imminently-eminently thing. I never said I was perfect. The "everything word" slip shouldn't have been too hard to figure out, even for you. I changed what I was saying and forgot to erase the "-thing" part.

But I wouldn't be too smug if I were you. You didn't seem know the name of the party under discussion and you don't seem to know that there are spelling differences between the U.K. and North America. "Recognize" and "realized" are the accepted spellings for more than 300,000,000 people on this side side of the pond.

Gadzooks, man, you fight unfairly. You try to pick a battle of wits knowing full well I won't fight an unarmed man....

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM

What exactly IS is your English identity, Burntstump? In fact what is England, given that it is not an administrative region of the UK and neither is it a sovereign state?

Maybe you've got John Betjemen's splendid prayer in mind:

....Keep our Empire undismembered,
Guide our Forces by thy hand,
Gallant blacks in far Jamaica,
Honduras and Togoland.
Protect them Lord in all their fights,
And even more, protect the whites.

Think of what our nation stands for,
Books from Boots and country lanes.
Free speech, free passes, class distinction,
Democracy and proper drains.
Lord, put beneath thy special care
One eighty-nine Cadogan Square....

If you wanted a world in which anyone from the next parish was a stranger, I'm afraid you've arrived in the wrong century. Around the world, countless millions are waking up to the iniquities around them, and doing exactly what Norman Tebbitt (your mentor, by any chance?) told them to do. That is, they are getting on their bikes. And even if every last one of us goes to defend our borders, they won't be stopped. They see a better world for their kids, they are determined to go for it, and I wish them well.

ddw, it's a bit feeble to sneer that someone is unarmed when you've just picked a fight with him and lost.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:18 PM

He didn't get the name of the party wrong. He was using the name that alot of us on this side of the pond employ, as it describes them better and lets everyone who has never heard of the BNP get a rough idea of their manifesto.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:19 PM

I am quite stunned how people can call me a bastard which is in itself a very quick judgement. I do consider myself very fortunate to have been born in the UK and appreciate it everyday.

But I do believe a great deal of the people who have commented here are massive hypocrites (let's all not get picky about spelling). I would surely enjoy it, if each person saying it's is wrong to vote BNP if they found themselves with the pleasure of living next to an asylum seeker estate. Where your house gets broken into and your car robbed. Then you see these people parading round in highly expensive, modified cars, wearing gold and not able to (or rather choose not to) speak English.

Then you lose your job at say, a call centre or factory, because they are willing to work below minimum wage rates and ignore paying income taxes or any other taxes to the government.

Oh and then, you find your daughters and female teenagers are being groomed for sex by asian men, who are tied into betrothed marriages set by their parents. These are the facts of where I live. Come and live where I live. I had the unfortunate pleasure of being caught in the race riots of 2000 in Oldham, but I will readily admit, this was both white and asian teens, proving they are 'men.'

White people are as bad as Asians. I would happily vote for a less extreme party, but the options avilable are useless. The Conservatives lack drive and the Liberal Democrats are too EU orientated. And briefly on that subject, I believe there are many benefits to ebing with the EU but so far we have given far much more than we have received. There lacks unity.

I am glad many have replied to my topic. It is very provoking but something which everyone tries to bury and be politically correct about.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:12 PM

There are good and bad in every community and that goes for assylum seekers as much as it does for any other group. However the overwhelming majority of such are genuine and the actions of a few should not be used to punish the rest. My brother in law does a lot of work with various groups in the Coventry area and the vast majority of them have very good reasons to be here and do not abuse the system at all. As for the BNP they take examples of the less honest and quote them to fuel blatant racism and if you choose to vote for them you may just as well wear a black shirt and swastica and have done with it! I could quote examples of the behaviour of so called 'British' people to the same end if I chose to but choose rather to quote the Jackson Five 'One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch'

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:41 PM

ddw-YOU mentioned the spelling, not me, you also suggested that I have a poor vocabulary, you also stated you have made a living through writing english for over 30 years, yet as I pointed out, you use incorrect words in your posts!
Whats that saying about greenhouses and stones?

Anyway, I've better things to do with my time, than argue with racists and idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:52 PM

GUEST, Josh,

I didn't call you a bastard. I told you to eat shit. FYI.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:03 PM

Just incase nobody called Josh a bastard, I would like to rectify that.....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 08:59 PM

Josh, you are not seemingly a bastard, but you are a guest, which is tantamount around here. I'm pleased that you can rise above the bilious outpourings here and still continue to state your case.

My counsel is to become active in mainstream politics, not the tin-pot parties like the BNP and the MRLP. The saying 'Some grin and bear it, others smile and change it' applies here. He's not my cuppa, but that Michael Howard was opining about challenging the political correctness only this week. Our own Cllr is of the same hue, and whilst I don't share his exact politics, I count him as a personal friend and drinking buddy, and he is an effing good example of someone who is making a difference by actually doing something rather than saying 'something should be done'.

So, become or state your membership here, get active in politics with a social conscience, and listen to mooman, as he is a Buddhist, and a very incisive thinker. And enjoy living in this wonderful country.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:15 PM

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/__121b_sf6Ml0n1p93sfzJxgvsOZUd4lnnfHNeG9I8DN0byXK+K2ecuxWL2AA==

There is no Josh folks...read this site, sorry I can't do the clicky business. Does it sound familiar? Even down to the cars and phones?

Looks like someone thought the Mudcat was good recruitment territory. Can't imagine how that could have happened, what with all the love and tolerance being shown here.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:52 PM


There is no Josh folks...
Looks like someone thought the Mudcat was good recruitment territory.

That's what Carol said when this thread first appeared.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: pdq
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 10:30 PM

She is cute, smart and plays the accordian. You are a lucky man, Jack. (er, two out of three ain't bad, really...)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:01 AM

Yep, And I LIKE the way SHE plays the accordion.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:37 AM

"Thank's for your support."

This appears at the bottom of the page that one is taken to by the link a few posts up--good eye Guest. Seems they love Britain but have difficulties with the apostrophe. I know we all make errors when we post, but ya figure that in an ad that introduces the Party to people, they might have wanted to get that sort of thing looked at by someone competent. Jaysus.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:53 AM

That person is not me, but another example of a similar situation. I am a student and live in Oldham. I am not here to recruit I just thought I'd make my point.

About me doing something... well I could never make a good politician plus there are even bigger things to worry about that I am putting my efforts into - renewable energy sources.

As for the guest thing, I'll get that sorted as soon as I figure how to and have some time this evening!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:53 AM

Oh, joy.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Dave Simpson
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:41 AM

Josh, just think of the consequences of your actions. If the BNP were to be voted in as the government of the UK, how long would it be before they called for complete repatriation of all 'immigrants' and not just a halt on asylum seekers? How long before discrimination against gays was completely acceptable? Would Jews be able to go about their lawfull business without fear?

The BNP are doing a very good job of masking their thuggish image by having 'ordinary' men and women stand as candidates in elections - they even had an Asian supporter on one of their recent election broadcasts (very clever!), but the rank and file BNP supporter is still a thug no matter how much the BNP publicity machine tries to sanitise them. The BNP are using people like you who think (erroneously) that they are not racists, just put upon patriots who want the best for their country and their fellow citizens. You are just playing into their hands by believing that they wouldn't go further than just stopping asylum seekers. Their ultimate goal is for an all white Britain.

You say you come from Oldham and you have had bad experiences with local Asian youths and asylum seekers. I live in a predominantly white area, and we're having a lot of problems with the local yobbish youths, none of which are Asian or black, just good old Anglo Saxons, who get away with terrorising the locals, being cruel to animals, taking drugs, binge drinking and doing the odd bit of vandalism and arson for good measure. The police seem powerless to stop them. Just where are they going to be sent back to? Saxony? Scandinavia?

Some people are just blinkered by the colour of someones skin, and like to overlook the fact that their is good and bad in all races and creeds, and are willing to scapegoat the ones who stick out most because of their colour. It's sad that in this day and age this still happens, and unfortunately Josh, you are carrying on this nasty tradition.

You may have convinced yourself that you're not racist, but you're voting for a racist party who are using ordinary, decent, frightend people for their own ends. Just like the Nazis did. Don't be fooled.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:46 AM

Sorry Josh, I misunderstood you when I said you were probably not a racist but misled. After the outpouring on Aug 13 at 6:19PM I would like to change that. At worst you are probably a racist and at best stupid to not only believe the propaganda but spout the same drivel.

As I said at the end of my last post. My father was a political refugee from the communist regime which took over Poland at the end of WW2. He arrived as a university educated son of an accountant. He took work in coal mines and on building sites and established a family and a fair life. He was one of the hundreds of thousands like him that did.

Does anyone hear about the thousands of Kosovans, Bosnians and Iraqis that do the same now? No. Did you hear the one about the Serb with the Rolex watch? Bet you did. Did you hear about the Afgani doctor who took work in factory at £2 an hour to feed his family? No? Probably heard about the Pakistani who bought Porche while on benefits though...

Yes, please leave this country. Go to where hard working and poor minorities are persecuted instead. You may get a better picture.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: burntstump
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 05:49 AM

re the what is English comment

Ask someone fron Scotland, Wales or Ireland what they are, so why can't I be English? In my dictionary English is belonging to England and an Englishman is from England.
I am not from Ireland Scotland or Wales so that makes me English and proud to be so! If you are saying there is no such thing as England and English people don't excist then you are being racist, which I don't think for one minute you are.
The term English is one that Tony Blair and the Labour Party shuns away from using, I wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Tam the bam (nutter)
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 06:17 AM

How can you vote BNP and say that you're not racist, of course you are if were not a racist then you wouldn't vote for a RACIST party.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:36 AM

Is it not possible to question the present immigration policy without being called racist?
Can we not exchange views without name calling?
There is an issue here. Why are some determined to stifle it?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Dave Simpson
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:22 AM

"Do you think the Irish have a right to want the English out? I'll bet you think Iraqis have a right to not want the U.S. in their land. So how can you — and all your ilk, if I'm guessing right about he basis for you name-calling — support the "national struggles" of the Irish against the English and Iraqis against Americans, and then condemn the English for getting upset what an alien culture imposes itself on them — and demands that they pay for it?"

Interesting point ddw, but there is quite a big difference in the situations you describe and the one faced in Britain with asylum seekers i.e asylum seekers are not an army armed to the hilt imposing their will on an entire nation through occupation.

Asylem seekers are not imposing their culture on Britain, they are bringing it with them as many other peoples who have settled in Britain have done before them which makes Britain the diverse place that it is, and in my oppinion, we are all the better for it. Most Britons on this messageboard are here because we value our music and culture and want to see them kept alive to florish. We know what our culture is and I for one don't feel it's being threatened by asylum seekers or any other immigrant who settles here. It is under threat from the majority of Britons who don't give a stuff about their own culture and sneer and laugh at the very mention of folk music or morris dancing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:27 AM

"..the arguments put forward by the originator of this thread are extremely typical of the propaganda BNP put forward. I simply don't believe that it is an "ordinary joe" making a justification...."

Cllr has said here precisely what I was thinking. And I note that all of the previous postings under the name "GUEST,Josh" over the past four years so have been on music threads, and read very much as if they were by an American, which this one clearly isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:35 AM

OK, what's the issue, Keith?

Josh, if you are as decent as you claim to be, you would soon be sickened by the attitudes you would find predominating in the BNP. But maybe you will think again, and take to heart Dave Simpson's words above.

Here are a few lines I saw in a holocaust museum. I know nothing about the guy who wrote them (a Pastor Neumuller) but they are a useful reminder of what can happen when the likes of the BNP are left unchallenged.

First they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the homosexuals,
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a homosexual.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me.
And there was no-one left
To speak for me.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:54 AM

The actual words Pastor Martin Niemoeller wrote were:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

(And here is a page about him.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 10:07 AM

The issue is whether a nation should be allowed to control entry over its borders. Most other countries do. We do not. Some think that is OK. Some think it will lead to tension and unrest. It is an issue.

Consider population density. How many countries have a higher one? this leads to pressure on resources such as housing. We have a housing crisis. Ordinary workers can not afford homes.

We have to make special provisions for nurses, teachers and firefighters or we would have none in our towns. ordinary workers are stuffed.

Assylum seekers have to be provided with homes and so are placed before others in the provision of social housing. I am not saying this is wrong, just that it inevitably causes tensions.

Most countries arrest illegal immigrants. We do not anymore. Recently near Hertford a number were caught when they ran from a van. The police gave them the fare to go to a reception centre and sent them on their way. I'm not saying that is wrong, but others do it differently.
I have heard some British people describe their experience in USA when they were found to have minor Visa infringements. They were held IN CHAINS for over 24 hours and then expelled.

There are different ways of dealing with immigration. Is it not an issue that can be discussed?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:24 PM

I am not from Ireland Scotland or Wales so that makes me English and proud to be so!

The Asians aren't from Ireland, Scotland or Wales either, so that make them English! ;)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:59 PM

Josh-how did you find this site?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Les from Hull
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 01:26 PM

Well there are plenty of asylum seekers here in Hull, but there is far more trouble caused by ignorant young white drunken idiots who were presumably raised in this country from good old Anglo Saxon stock. I wish that they would all fuck off...

And Josh, are you sure that you can tell that an asylum seeker is an asylum seeker as he drives past in his car wearing his gold. Or is he a third generation person of Asian origin who has done very well for himself through hard work and application. Let's face it, pal, you are a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:44 PM

I recall a story that was told by a woman in eastern Canada. She was black, and when asked by someone what island she came from--a reference to Haiti or Jamaica, etc--she responded, "Montreal."

Keith A and Josh: I am trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't stick my head that far up my ass. This party you are supporting advocates that all people who are not white be returned to their country of origin. Doesn't that sound just a bit racist to you? And you have the disingenuousness to say, "There are different ways of dealing with immigration. Is it not an issue that can be discussed?" What's to discuss. Read what your Party advocates. And please stop with the crap. You won't get too many takers here.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:24 PM

I do not appreciate unconstructive comments from people, but very much relish people giving well formed opinions here. Thankyou.

D Simpson, you are quite right and the odds of me ever voting for the BNP again are very low. I do appreciate there are as many bad white people which is why I am not racist as some of you may believe. At the time, I was living in Birmingham in an area where white people were the minority and I was getting sick of living there as I was made to feel so unwelcome by the neighbours who happened to have a habit of using the white people in the area for target practice with their air guns. Not fun.

For the record, if I was to move to another country, I would expect NO help from them in supporting me. I would use what money I had to set up and I would get ANY job available until I could find something more suitable.

DtG: It is of my opinion that hard working and poor minorities are the ones that get screwed over in this country.

Keith A of Hertford, ur comment at 14 Aug 04 - 07:36 AM was spot on. I'm trying to achieve something constructive here and give people the opportunity to help me see another way.

On the subject of the Irish, I would gladly pass Northern Ireland back to Ireland but the inhabitants of that nation WANT TO STAY WITH US, so that is what they shall do, despite the cost of many soldiers lives. I was in Manchester City centre when the bomb went off so I have a direct POV on that one.

I do appreciate the culture different nations bring to us but it's a simple shame that they segregate themselves from the nation of the UK.

I found this Mudcat website through yahoo search engine when I was looking for info about oil reserves, oddly enough.

I am an ordinary Joe but if you do not believe - fine. And maybe I have been influences by their propaganda and marketing, but I would testify it is more through MY OWN NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES.

Keith A - again u made a valid point later on. Perhaps I would be more specific to say I would like better border control. We should look after our own, properly, before helping others. We are totally incapable of looking the population we have so far, without letting more and more in! Consider this, the people trying to get through the channel tunnel at their own accord have passed through all the other European countries before reaching the UK, they did not claim Asylum at the first place they arrived at (which is what you're meant to do) so they obviously are finding something great about the UK. Which I do not mind. But these people slip into the underworld and can never be traced.

In conclusion, it is the way in which immigration is controlled and the power the Police have to be changed.

In general, I believe harsher punishment for major crimes, Murder and Rape being the big ones, should be increased, you could kill a guy and you get ten yrs, that is bang out of order. And then, if you kill a guy who is robbing ur house, in pure self defence, he's in your house remember! You then get sent to Jail. And oh, the git then sues u for damages! This has happened in the UK!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, depsite all the mess Labour have made for this country (hmm, higher council tax rates, poorer NHS, more and more stealth taxes, a war in the middle east which had no justification....) they will probably be voted in again.

Keep it coming people.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:39 PM

What you do or don't appreciate is not too high on my list of concerns. I don't like racists, regardless their arguments on behalf of racism. GFY.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: shepherdlass
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:51 PM

Josh, Please try translating your unfortunate experience (and, come on, there are a hell of a lot of Brits who drive uninsured out there) and your justifications to Germany c1937 or Alabama c1960. I'm sure most people who voted pro-Nazi and anti-Civil Rights also felt perfectly justified and non-racist. Guess what? They were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:13 PM

I am not a BNP person!
I have little to contribute to the discussion. It is not an something I have given much thought to.
I just noticed that Josh put forward an opinion and invited discussion, and the response was not a careful refuting of his points, but to call him names.
I would like to follow a reasoned debate on this because I still have an open mind.
If you disagree with Josh, say why. Fuck off bastard is a little negative.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:16 PM

OK, Keith, here ya go. I disagree with Josh because he uses generalizations about people and his writing is bloody awful. I agree that you have little to contribute to the discussion, so stop.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Amergin
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:25 PM

I personally like fuck off bastard...so fuck off you racist prick!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:25 PM

brucie:

" because he uses generalizations about people and his writing is bloody awful. "

If this is reason enough to disagree with someone, can any of us EVER agree on anything?


I find a large number of "bigots" here, at all points of the political spectrum. ANYONE who is not willing to listen to another's viewpoint, but insists on presenting his/her own qualifies.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:26 PM

Brucie, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Not my party, I have none.I was comparing how this country
deals with illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, with how others, for instance yours does. Surely the relative merits could be considered reasonably. I hope so, because I would be interested.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:27 PM

Keith,

Look again at the title of the thread.

He calls the BNP, "thugs" in his first post, it is certainly clear, from other things I have read here, that the BNP is racist. I think Josh deserves to be told that he is a racist, He is supporting a racist organization for racist reasons. I think he should be told that in the starkest and most stident way until he realizes and accepts his obvious folly and retracts it. I don't say this for myself. I say this for him and his neighbours. It's time he learned that he can't look at a whole class or race of people through the lens of a couple of bad experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:43 PM

Beardedbruce

"If this is reason enough to disagree with someone"

1) Because he supports racism, and because I will not get drawn into an argument about the relative merits of racism with anyone, the answer to that part of your question is yes.

2) This is your first post to this thread and that's all ya gotta say? My reasons for not liking Mr Josh were made claer earlier. He supports a racist party. When Keith said, "If you disagree with Josh, say why.", I responded in the manner I did because I thought the statement didn't deserve a serious answer. OK, fellow?

Keith. If you don't support the Party, my apologies to you, too.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 06:29 PM

Racism is wrong, I agree whole heartedly with that. At the time, I was severly aggravated and in human nature, was looking for a scapegoat.

But there are several problems reaking in this country which simply won't be addressed by the current government, and this will cause a change in our ways.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:27 PM

Josh,

If racism is wrong and you vote for a party that is racist, what should one assune from that?

I this is a thread about people being able to go where they want to or need to, that is different.

Canada has quotas as does almost every country in the world. However, people fleeing from despots, or people who need a safe haven from persecution should be welcomed by every country in the world. I am nor so naive that I don't recognize the facts of demographics and what major population shifts can do to countries. But let me ask this: Would you sman your door in the face of a man who needs to feed his kids or they will starve to death? The whole friggin' world is doing that to the Sudan right now. If they were your children, how would you answer?

RSVP, Josh.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:32 PM

Josh this is so depressing for old guys like us. You see our parents when they weren't much older than you are now had a really shit time of it - keeping our country safe for folks like yourself to live in a country where its all right to disagree with the current government. I mean a really shit time....risking their lives every day, away from their loved ones, seeing their friends butchered in front of their eyes.

And the people they were fighting against were broadly speaking the same ones that you are voting for. there is so much to be proud of in our country.

Next time you are in town take a look at that war memorial. those young guys died so that you could enjoy the freedoms that the BNP are conspiring to take away from our society.

Its not all your fault. I've seen some of the stuff you come up with on the pages of the Daily Mail and right wing papers that are ostensibly respectable. But you know these guys ( the Rothemeres etc) supported Mussolini almost up the war being declared. just because they are a disgrace to our nation ( and they are stinking rich and get away with it) doesn't change the fact that your country's honour was redeemed with the blood of of young men - many of whom had bugger all stake in the wealth of the country.

I lost my Dad this year. he was in the Irish guards fighting in ww2 - had nightmares all his life afterwards about the sound of spandau machine guns. Don't throw his legacy in the gutter by consorting with fascists.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford on tour
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:01 AM

Josh, we all here share an interest in our music and are a forum of friends. If you are not into our music, why have you started this discussion?
if you are here to recruit for BNP then you are really not welcome.

Non UK folks, BNP is an extreemist movement, but immigration is a main stream political issue here and will be an election issue. The leader of our main opposition party has accused the government of losing control of our borders.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Albion
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 10:33 AM

Erm...well, I always said that I would never get into another debate on Mudcat (given the level to which it has seemed to sink recently), but I do feel that I have something to contribute here.

First off, I hate fascists like poison for a couple of reasons --first, and biggest, is their scapegoating of minorities, whether religious, ethnic or sexual. I'm sure we are all aware of what happens when they are allowed to get their way in this respect, so I don't need to expand on that. Secondly, and a tiny annoyance by comparison with the first, but rarely talked about, is the way they hijack what they view as the dominant culture and make it seem as though being of that culture implies agreement with their noxious views. It doesn't help that the left, of which I count myself a slightly beleagured member, falls for this in a big way. Thus in England anyone who expresses an interest in English culture or heritage (which, as pointed out by other catters, is a beautifully diverse thing) tends to get labelled racist by the left. This kind of thing can frustrate people over time. It also means that most of the stuff on English culture out there comes across as Conservative at best and Nazi at worst, since people who are on the left (and more diversity-minded) get scared off the subject. Then English culture gets perceived further as an exclusively "white" domain, intensifying the problem on both left and right. It's ironic that, by ignoring the contributions of non-white people to English culture, the left also ends up minimising what refugees and other immigrants have given us. Of course mentioning this would be an appeal to self-interest, and ignores the fact that our wider loyalty to other human beings should require compassion instead of whingeing, but I think it would help.

The argument that asylum seekers are responsible for English culture being derided and unrecognised is bollocks. We ourselves have done that. If we are stupid enough to buy into a homogenous pop culture that obscures our own cultures we are bound to end up wondering who we are. We could assert our own identities any day just by switching off the pop music stations and trash TV for a bit.

One other thing --people who say that "the English did x and y in the Empire and got a lot out of it, now they're getting theirs" are being a bit hateful too. When you come from the working-class, in which the options until recent times were very narrow (work in a factory for a starvation wage, become a soldier and be expendable, work down the mine, etc) you realise that the racist ethic that supported the exploitation of colonial peoples also supported the exploitation of the English working classes. This is what happens when you have an aristocracy based on notions of genetic superiority. The fact remains that most of the English are of working-class extraction originally, and most of the people whose families really benefitted from the Empire (members of the Establisment at the time) are well off enough that they don't have to worry about things like getting somewhere to live. Some of them are in the Tory party or worse, spouting polemic about asylum seekers making it harder to get accommodation...

The bottom line is that anyone who would vote for the BNP, especially after the horrifying BBC documentary "Inside the BNP", is either fundamentally racist or incredibly simple-minded.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:31 AM

McG, many thanks for corrections in the Niemoeller lines I quoted. Have you seen them published anywhere, or have you any other source? Sounds like he was a sterling guy, anyway.

Keith A, it is utter rubbish to say that some countries control their borders but the UK does not. Even for travel into and out of the rest of the European Union, the UK - alone among all the EU countries, I believe - requires passport checks.

Moreover your point about population density is disingenuous, or at least naive. Certainly the UK ranks high on that measure - behind only Japan, I think. But try relating populations to usable resources - most critically water - and the picture changes dramatically.

The bottom line is exactly as Albion put it at the end of his post above.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: shepherdlass
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 02:58 PM

Fully agree with Albion's bottom line, and the need to reclaim a sense of Englishness back from the right wing extremists who've hijacked the notion.

Not so sure about this homogeneous pop culture Albion mentions - did anyone see World Idol???? There is no way our manicured and manufactured pop stars (well, Will Young) looked or sounded anything like those from the rest of Europe, Australia or the Middle East. Even in production line pop there are little national quirks that get through. That's why the arguments of the racist little-Englanders are so laughable - nobody could do a better job of destroying our wonderfully mongrel British identity than the BNP and their fellow travellers, with their stupid concepts of national purity.

Incidentally, this is really narking me now because I know of a soul/blues (yes, music of black origin!) singer who recently stood for BNP and was SURPRISED that his band (mostly first generation Caribbean and Asian immigrants) walked out on him. Are some of us Brits really stupid enough to think BNP aren't racist?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:05 PM

Albion, that was a seriously well belanced, well maintained statement from you and it got me thinking a lot. Well done sir!

After that 'inside the BNP' documentary I a fair few people agreed with the critical elements that the leader was saying and as my father put it, a retired editor of a Fleet Street newspaper put it, if they did not have a thuggish element and weren't so extremist, they would be a getting a lot more votes.

Focusing a little, Brucie - as I said a little earlier, the chances of me voting again for the BNP are minimal, as I realised how extreme the vote was.

Of course I would help any person who was in dire need from a country's perspective, condencing my view into its purest form: Look after number one. We should sort ourselves out before we start giving it to others. The slums we have in this country are appauling, inner parts of London are a mess, and in Manchester - Moss Side is a real no go area for a white person on his / her own. Crime continues to increase, poverty widen, and health service crisis continue to loom.

The Sudan crisis - well harshly putting it, there is always some country in Africa in trouble and it is always the west that has to come to the rescue, namely America, but they never get any thanks, and then they get blamed for persecuting Muslims... aren't most African nations populated by a majority of Muslims??? Just a note, my aunt works as a teacher in Tanzania, one of the poorest african nations.

Weelittledrummer - that is all very true. I had high intentions of joining the RAF to serve my own personal part to our country but I was told go to uni first. After university, I am most likely to join the air services.

I only posted on here as at first, it just seemed like a discussion forum which actually, for once, had a group of relatively intelligent people. I didn't realise at the time that its main orientation was blue music etc.

Sorry for pissing anyone off but this is a current and deadly topic in the UK and many people in the UK are getting sick of the current government.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Albion
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:39 PM

Well, shepherdlass, I suppose it's less the soupy pop idol stuff that I am worried about, so much as the mindless celebrity culture that seems to preoccupy so many people to the exclusion of most things that are worthwhile. Then they wail about immigrants undermining our culture...

With regard to the soul singer you mentioned, I think quite a lot of people have probably been fooled (or are determinedly deluding themselves into thinking) that the BNP are not racist. A friend of mine from Yorkshire in a recent discussion we had about the whole worrying topic of fascism mentioned an acquaintance of his from work, a 'nice bloke', who said that he "voted for the BNP because they seemed the only party to have the interests of the ordinary Englishman at heart". The fellow appeared genuinely shocked and remorseful when my mate told him the party was racist. There's one born every minute.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:45 PM

That Niemoeller quote - here's what it says on the site I checked it from - This quotation is often cited incorrectly. The exact phrasing was supplied by Sibylle Sarah Niemoeller von Sell, Martin Niemoeller's wife. The remark was made in reply to a student's question, "How could it happen?"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:47 PM

So, GUEST Josh, you are a student,going to uni before joining the RAF. So how come you also say you work hard, earn your wages, and pay your taxes. And if you were really a student and lived in Oldham, you would not say you lived near the Peak District, which is somewhere else all together. And you also say you hadnt noticed that Mudcat was for people interested in folk and blues.
There are a number of other strange inconsistencies in this guest's posts. I personally wouldnt waste any time arguing with him, I dont think Josh the naive student exists.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:59 PM

I told you that yonks ago.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:28 PM

Noted, thanks McG.

By the way, has anyone noticed what Brits have done for local culture in some of the tourist areas of Spain and Greece?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:33 PM

OK smartarse, I'll be more specific, I live in an area 3 miles from Oldham, called Saddleworth, which is right on the fringe of the Peak District.

I am a student but if ur parents aren't well off, which mine certainly aren't, I have to WORK for my money and so pay taxes (including council taxes for the rent on my house) on what I earn, For four years before now I worked part time 20-30 hours a week in a bar in Oldham or in Birmingham, where I study. However this year I am on full time industrial placement working for Lockheed Martin. I just didn't want to tell everyone, everything about me. But there you go. My only ignorance was not noticing the type of website, I posted this thread within half an hour of seeing the website. A hasty judgement it would seem.

Has this resolved your quarrels?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:34 PM

That post was just by me, forgot to type my name at the top! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM

GUEST Josh-Students don't pay council tax, so stop bloody lying!
you reckon you were in the race riots, and the Manchester IRA bomb, looks like youve been really unlucky!
Were you in The Kings Cross Fire, The Zebrugge Ferry disaster, and the Hillsborough Stadium as well?

I think your full of shit, and just trying to make trubble.

so get lost.john

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 01:54 AM

Guest Josh is trying to make amends, IMO. Why not give him a chance?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:18 AM

and in Manchester - Moss Side is a real no go area for a white person on his / her own

I just happened to call in the Clarence, Moss Side, on Saturday night, Josh. I was on my my own. I am white. I am still here...

Is this another example of you believing everything you hear in the press? Is it because your father is a retired Fleet Street editor? The Sun by any chance?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 04:07 AM

Just spent the weekend leafleting against the BNP, as they are standing a candidate in the council by-election in the ward where I live. Talked to lots of fair minded people who thankfully wont be voting for them. But I was surprised at the number of people who said that they would be voting for them - and guess what, they all said they were not racist.

The BNP are a bunch of racist, ignorant neanderthals

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 05:38 AM

jOhn, I don't see any evidence that Josh is lying. Maybe his landlord imposes a surcharge towards council tax. And his last post makes it pretty clear he's not a fiction, Greg. I'm with brucie.

What I did wonder was why his proximity to a bomb blast bestows any kind of authority on his views. My time in Belfast included a twelve-month period in 1972-3 during which 1,000 (yes, one thousand) bombs went off there. According to Josh, the whole of Mudcat must be hanging on my every word.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 06:43 AM

Nobody seems to have followed up the interesting suggestion in the first post of this thread about asylum seeker housing. Apparently they are building 200 new houses in this attractive Pennine area exclusively for asylum seekers. Now, this may well be true, but I have worked on music projects with asylum seekers(shock horro) for a good many years now: and they certainly dont build hundreds of new houses for asylum seekers round here,(Stoke). So could we have chapter and verse for this story? I'm not saying it's not true, I'd just like to see a little evidence s we can make up our minds.
   As regards Josh's existence: I am quite willing to believe he exists (obviously, someone is writing the posts). But I think there are elements in what he says that dont quite ring true to me...that's as tactfully as I am prepared to put it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:36 AM

And the goverment dont give them free cars either.
I know loads of asylum seekers and refugees, and most of them havent got a car, and the ones that have have got a job and saved up for it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:45 AM

Yeah the free cars bit did it for me too. But the web site clinched it.

He is not called Josh, he is not a student, he is not about to be over run by asylum seekers.

He is manipulative and propagandering.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:00 AM

Josh, if you are a student it's about time you fucking well grew up.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:28 AM

students-- bag o' shite.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:47 AM

I grew up in a terraced house in Foleshill in Coventry. We were one of two white families in the street - the remainder were all mainly first generation Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi. About two months after we moved in my father was diagnosed with a life threatening illness at three in the morning and and rushed into hospital where he remained for the next three weeks. My mother was a full-time housewife, I was seven and my sister was five. The day after literally every family on the street came over to our house with offers of help and support. The only exception to this was the other white family. Interestingly, we later learned that the head of that particular household had run as a National Front councillor in the last local elections! So really this whole thing about far right parties looking after their own is bollocks, eh?

Josh, "I do not want to live here anymore." My sincere advice is that you fuck off somewhere else as speedily as possible and stay there.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,brucie
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 02:29 PM

Josh,

I would love to see you speak against the BNP--and that should be easy for you to do considering you have had a change of 'heart' concerning that Party.

Do you or do you not think the BNP is racist? If yes, why? If no, then that should make things clear. The ball is in your court. IMO, that's the quickest way to get this shit sorted out, OK? Basically, I'm gettin' a fu#kin' headache from it, and I am a nasty SOB when I have a headache.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 02:59 PM

Brucie and Peter K(Fionn): you both seem to be drifting into be "nice to GUEST Josh" mode. Sweet reason, he's changeed his position, etc etc. Sure. But he's also changed his style of writing, vocabulary, personal history etc.
   Read all his posts, I suggest (if you can be bothered!). Call be a suspicious-minded sod if you are like, but I think this man is not at all what he seems. And I dont think he's much of a welcome guest, certainly not to me, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:28 PM

He is a charlatan and a racist f***er at that.

Brucie don't give him the benefit of the doubt, unless he moves in next door to you of course.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 03:35 PM

Greg and Guest:

See my post just above yourn, and that should handle it I hope.

I ain't prepared to get in bed with the guy yet. I just seem like a nice guy. Don't believe that of me for a sec.

I was always pointed out by my mother to other people as the reason some mammals eat their young. She was right.

Pax.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:11 AM

Greg, instinct tells me you're right, but I've seen our collective instincts here at Mudcat turn out to be wrong, several times. Also I do think his story kind of hangs together, however misinformed he may be, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

That was a good point you made about housing.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:50 AM

Yesterday two more BNP party members, who took part in the undercover documentary, were arrested. The charge apparently is that they were/are sending malicious communications electronically and otherwise.

There IS NO Josh.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,H
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 08:11 AM

There are, I`m sure, millions of folks, predominantly of white British origin in these islands who have seen throughout their lives cultural and population changes that they do not find to their liking. They feel, perhaps, they have seen successive governments turn somersaults to placate certain sections of the community at the expense of what they consider the indigenous population. They may not all agree that the influx of different cultures and practises, as they are often told, must be seen as "good thing". They may feel strongly that the immigration policies and the European question is destroying the things that they hold dear. They are certainly not members of the BNP but if the above makes them racist then they could well be in the majority.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 09:10 AM

I hope it is just an age thing. Nowadays the youngsters are being raised to realise that there is a whole big world out there, accesible to them, if they wish to explore and experience it.
The populations are forever shifting and transience is the norm in most major cities.

There will always be pockets of the.." I don't like change or anything that isn't instantly recognisable to me." brigade. They are scared and prefer to be safe in their insular world, where they never have to think too hard.

They will disappear with time and be replaced by open minded people, who can celebrate being alive as opposed to being a nationality.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 09:37 AM

Guest, you are absolutely right and the new generations will go through the same transitions as our older generations have; just as it has ever been since man began.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 02:35 PM

I can understand you think I am propagandering or whatever. But I'm honestly not, if you look at my very very first post on Mudcat, my guest name was something like: Josh - Aston university or something, that's where I started using this forum. It was the 'oil will run out' topic, started by Brucie boy!!

I do find it find I'm being told I am not Josh. I am Josh. My vocabularly changing.... well that may have been because I was trying to communicate myself better to you all, plus I was getting a little aggravted.

Perhaps I am a naive and ill informed student. But I am still a person who's name is Josh.

I was 'in' the Manchester bomb. I was 12 (shouldn't have been there at that age admittedly) and they evacuated us from the Arndale Centre. As for the riots, they started in Glodwick I think and moved up to Oldham Sixth Form College, where I was studying / getting my arse kicked.

I would quite happily speak against the BNP, some are thugs, but a couple ovf their points at the time hit home for me, they are shaping their plans to suit the general public as you've all said, so what do u expect?

As to my original thread post, it is being planned for the construction of these houses. The question you have to ask yourself is, would you mind living next to such an estate? Honestly ask yourself that. Your house value would collapse and no one would ever buy it. Simple as.

And I'm really loving the fact some of u are saying I am an unwelcome yet you yourself are a guest, with no name no less. So hmm.

If there was another way of proving I am me, I would but I don't want to tell u my complete life. I've never been questioning who u were have I?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 02:41 PM

Close but no cigar.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 04:02 PM

Tell that to Monica Lewinski.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 04:48 PM

Jesus Christ Josh!

Theres naive and theres not safe out on your own.

They are shaping their plan for the general public - thats exactly what Hitler did.

Just take it from older and wiser heads:-

You are hanging round with bad boys - no good will come of it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:39 PM

I lived in Harlem--one block south of 125 Street--in 1967-8. I am white. My neighbours were black. ALL my neighbours were black. For friggin' miles. Everywhere I looked I saw black people. I was very easy to spot in a crowd. Long-haired white hippie with a guitar case. I never had problems.

I lived and taught on an Indian (First Nations, Aboriginal, Indigenous) Reserve in northern Alberta (1987-90 (?)) for three years and ALL my neighbours were red. I was still white. I was very easy to spot in a crowd. I never had problems.

This bullshit the BNP is talking about is just that: bullshit. Racists are rubbish (to borrow a phrase from my friend jOhn). Sleep with the devil and you'll have the devil's child. Don't let those bastards poison your mind. The BNP is trash. Put them and their policies where they belong. Beside the cat in jOhn's dumpster.

The BNP is composed of people who will lie, cheat, say anything they have to to make themselves look worthy of votes. We have that kind of garbage in Alberta also. Mostly we marginalize the fu#kers because they don't deserve a hearing. "The day will come when a man is judged not by the color of his skin but by the conduct of his character." Memorize that. Then learn to live it. You are better than the BNP. Memorize that too, SVP. Make your vote mean something good. And make your choices count. My children have to live in the world your generation is making. Think about that, OK?

Thanks, Josh.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 05:51 PM

Erm... why exactly did you start using this forum? I'm genuinely interested to know. I've been using it for the best part six months and yours is the first thread of this nature I've encountered.

RSVP

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Bagpuss
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 05:39 AM

If people coming to this county work for a living we complain about them stealing our jobs. If they don't, they are sponging off us...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 06:34 AM

yeh and if they leave, we complain about the queues at the airport

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 07:01 AM

I think poor little Josh has arrived in Stoke as well. Or at least we have a very similar sounding long letter to the local complaining about asylum seekers and saying what good points the BNP make (though of course of course the writer doesnt actually vote for them!). Remarkably like young Josh "of course" not being a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 09:49 AM

Among the phrases that immediately arouse my suspicion are:

"I'm a simple country lawyer...."

"We're all good Kerstians here, am I right?"

and...

"I'm not a bigot, but..."

My comment is that YOU don't get to define yourself as a non-bigot (or racist, as the case may be). By bringing the word up, you are introducing the topic and trying to define yourself without giving any evidence in support. I think the reactions on this thread bear out the principle but I didn't see anyone state it obviously.

"By their works ye shall know them"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 09:53 PM

Both my wife and I have voted for the BNP in the past. We are intelligent and hard working people who pay their taxes and live within the laws of this Land. All we ask is that others do the same.

The bottom line of all this is that the UK used to be a democracy and it seems that we are moving away from this quite rapidly. We are now being controlled by a minority who feel that their opinion weighs far greater than ours and that we must be PC.

What a loads of bollocks. What the majority want, the majority should get. If we vote for immigration to stay in its present form then it should not change. However, I don't know anyone who is happy with the immigration system as it stands so changes aught to be made without the righteous calling them racist.

The reason I voted for the BNP was to fire a warning shot across the bows of political parties that will not listen to what the majority want. Of course I don't want the BNP to be in power, but something has to be done and I don't know of any other way of doing it other than becoming a politician. This I refuse to do, as I think they are a bunch of lying bastards that tell lies to try and get our votes and then, when they are in power, they do what they want, often for personal gain, without a single thought for the majority of the people or for the good and benefit of the country.

Yes the BNP is racist and no they should not be elected into power as that is what they would use their position as, power, not resposibility.

I do feel that my vote doesn't count for anything when the minority do-gooder's seem to get their way in some very important issues. This pisses me off greatly, as I am sure most people feel just as frustrated as I do.

Perhaps that is why there is a BNP Party in the first place.

Timbo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:04 PM

another fucking racist jerk!
Timbo, and Josh, you are both so stupid, that I'll be suprised if your IQ is in double figures.

your'e both scum, and I hope your balls drop off.

john

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:06 PM

Don't hold back, jOhn.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:21 PM

What's it like to be a minority?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:26 PM

Timbo-get back to your Playstation, come back here when you've grown up.

PS-Maybe you'd like to discuss this over a pint?
contact me anytime,
35 Chanterlands Ave,
Hull
Hu5 3TG
01482 348161.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:58 PM

Who wants to be grown up? Thats why we are on Mudcat isn't it?

I know you won't believe me when I say i'm not racist. But i'm not.

I work in an Internaitonal Hotel where most of the work force is from abroad and I get on well with them all. I also enjoy their company and what they have to offer this country. I also have great admiration for their commitment to find a better way of life for themselves and their families in a foreign country, that takes guts.

I travel to foreign parts as often as I can, as I do believe that travel expands the mind.

Perhaps you should try leaving Hull sometime.

Timbo.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:26 PM

Interesting that Timbo has been a member since August 18--day after friend Josh made his disappearance.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:44 PM

Not the same person, believe me.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:51 PM

Maybe not, but you have taken up where friend Josh left off. Now we get the admission that the BNP is racist, but even so, you vote for them.

Timbo, I have had some issues with the policies of Canada's government over the years. Canada actually had a sitting member in the House who was communist. That was in 1948 I think. However, even when I could only mar my ballot--something I have done on three occasions over the years, I could never bring myself to vote for communists, racists, fascists or any other groups like that, because if I awoke the morning after to the realization that my protest vote had actually helped get one of those type parties elected, I would shoot myself. That is the wrong way to vote regardless HOW pissed off you are with immigration policies, IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 12:35 AM

well spotted brucie,
i'm suprised Timbo/Josh can figure out how to vote, must take them all day to figure out how to spell X!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 12:38 AM

I tend to agree. We havn't voted for them since. It was only the once as a protest. I am not racist, I have friends of many nationalities and anyone is welcome to come and live in this country and have jobs here. What I am against is them sponging from the State when they havn't paid a single penny into the system at all. It's lunacy and a company that ran a business along similar lines would soon be bankrupt. As I think this country will be if things continue the way they are.

Thank you for your interest. But never fear, I would not be party to bringing racism into power. I only voted for them once and then it was only a local government election. They also didn't have a hope in hell of being elected. Had they been, I wouldn't have voted for them. (There is a large Asian community in my neighbourhood and they are not likely to vote for the BNP).

So thank you for your input. I am not taking over from Josh, as I would never vote for the BNP on a regular basis, I am merely pointing out my reasons for voting the way I did at the time. I did it in a clear and calculated way. I do have an IQ in more than double figures not in single figures as was suggested by Mr Minority the do-gooder from Hull.

Timbo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 12:40 AM

another thing that pisses me off about these arseholes=they say they are so proud of british culture, yet they probably wouldn't know culture if it hit them in the face.

They spout Patriotism, yet how british is the royal family?
Queeen is German, Phil Is Greek!

Josh/Timbo-I'm not English, you going to kick me out?
if so, where to?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 12:43 AM

Before you answer my last question, bear in mind that I have thought for this country, and have been working here for more than 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 01:04 AM

I have no intention of kicking anyone out of this country. Like I have said earlier, I do not object to anyone living here. They are welcome. Do you not read what I am writing or have you decided I am a racist bigot and because you think that I am that I must be? Because if that is what you think, you are wrong.

Read what I am saying. I did not vote for the BNP on racist grounds. I voted for them as a protest against our poiticians taking no notice of the wishes of the majority of the population. In a way I was voting for democracy.

I presume your last message was supposed to say you fought for this country, not thought. I also fought for this country, I spent 25 years in the Army. So thank you for your support and long may you remain here.

Timbo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 02:31 AM

Which regiment was you in, and how did you manage to spend 25 years in the army?
[for anyone to spend more than 22 years in the army, except in time of war is highly unusual!]
If you signed up in time of war, and your commision was extended because of the war, this would make you around 100 years old!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 02:55 AM

Easy

I joined boys service at the age of 15 and left after my 22 years service at the age of 40. I was originally in the Royal Artillery and later transferred into the Army Physical Training Corps.

Timbo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:28 AM

For those of you that agree with the title of this thread (timbo et al) my wife just commented "It just goes to show that you can fool some of the people some of the time!" Clr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Fiolar
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:38 AM

There were a few comments about "fuck the Nazis". What a waste of good sperm. I'm sure there are better things to do with it.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:38 AM

Timbo, I'm inclinded to believe you are sincere but doubt you when you say "We are intelligent...". It is quite stupid even to give the BNP temporary support.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Nemesis
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:06 AM

From Private Eye, 20 August - 3 September 2004

Funny Old World column:

Spotted in the Maryland Live Journal, 27 May

"The little missus was away at a Tupperware convention, so I had to do my own laundry," Klansman Arnie Stevens told reporters outside his home in Pigeon Hole, Oklahoma. "But I'm not used to washing clothes, and they say this has happened because I didn't separate my whites from my coloureds. A Cincinnati Red's tee-shirt must have gotten into the wash, that's why my robe turned pink. This just goes to show that segregation is the way of the Lord. In laundry and also in life."

Stevens was speaking after trying to attend a Ku Klux Klan rally, dressed in a pink hood and pink robe, and being ordered to leave. "I only have one robe and hood, so I had to wear them. But the others told me to go home immediately, because they said pink made me look like a faggot. Unfortunately, my fellow Klansmen judged me solely on the colour of my robe. But I can't help what colour my robe is, can I? It's what's inside that counts."

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:26 AM

Timbo(or Josh)..what are you doing here? Could you tell us your opinion of the merits of Ewan McColl as a song-writer, where you stand on acoustic v electric Dylan, whether horses sing folksong or whatever? And if you do not have opinions on these subjects,go away

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:27 AM

we can control them, use them for our own purposes....isn't that what the Germans middle classes thought initially.

In truth they are a pestilence on all that is decent and democratic about our society, they are not to be tolerated.

the harm they did even in my time has been incalculable.

In the 70's , they called themselves the National Front. The Anti Nazi League set out to combat them. This body of left wingers disrupted every election speech James Callaghan made in 1979 and as a result Thatcher was elected.

In the 2nd year of her reign we lost 28% of the manafacturing capablity of this country. Then we lost the mines, most of the steel industry and we had a hard drugs industry and beggars on the street for the first time in living memory.

All done to the strains of Rule Britannia

spare me your bloody patriotism. No real patriot, nobody who really loved this country ever voted for Thatcher , Tebbit, or their accomplices on the far right.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:31 PM

Timbo,

I have one question for you. Who referred you to the Mudcat? Just curious. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:46 PM

It's a troll conspi-race-y.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:47 PM

Just to let u know, I have got a job and money to work for which is why I have been away. Also, I cannot access this website oddly enough and also my wireless connection sometimes plays up. Plus I thought my thread had died, but obviously not.

Peace out lads.

Take care.

Josh

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:51 PM

Well Josh I am continuing with my work which involves making beautiful music with asylum seekers. Who bring something very lovely to this fine country of ours, unlike the pondlife party you vote for.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:10 PM

Josh,

Get a membership. Love to see you and Timbo in the same room together.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:53 PM

Done. My email is [e-mail].

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:18 PM

There goes the neighbourhood....

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:36 PM

Im a conservative I voted thatcher I don't vote or believe in the values of BNP, Wee little drummer I accuse you of THREAD DRIFT. You want a debate over it lets do it over A pint. If you want to imply that the conservative party are the same as the BNP then you are as big a bigot as the national front, SWP and the rest of that ilk. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:56 PM

Hey, I like Josh. He didn't once lose his cool which is a helluva lot more than I can say for myself. He will come along.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM

Let's use a racing analogy. At first, Josh tested the waters. It was a pit stop of sorts. He has returned to the race, and despite the time lost he will continue.

Josh, ya have to enter your datd when you frist log on to the 'cat.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:31 AM

My datd? If u meant date I'm still not sure what u mean... sorry old boy!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:03 AM

no I don't.

I think conservatism is good idea. but I think a load of right wing idiots hi-jacked the party, they're there at every party conference looking and sounding stupid.

John MacGregor was the best education secretary since the war, but he soon discovered Keith Joseph's plans for a national curriculum were crazy - so they sacked him and put a yes man in the job.

Hesseltine took a principled stand over Westland, and because he opposed Thatch the looneys chose a loser like Major .

Portillo is the only one who could lead the party to victory and they won't choose him , because he was frank aboout a youthful sexual indiscretion.

And yes I think the NF were feeling pretty shot up the arse, when Thatch came up with that line about polluting our national blood (or whatever it was) in 79. You can't deny she nicked their best line.

I bet Josh would have voted for her. He who sups with the devil....etc

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:27 AM

She sorted the country out though didn't she? But admittedly, she left it in a mess. Politics is swings and roundabouts. Your never going to find a party u totally agree with. Diplomatics and politics are all about compromises and meeting the needs of the many. Ofcourse you're not going to like everything. It's impossible. Every person has different needs.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:56 AM

weelittledrummer, I am not a conservative (as if that needed spelling out) so it's not really my business, but I've never understood the contempt John Major atracted.

To me, a socialist, he was an ordinary decent bloke, born into circumstances that gave him no advantage whatsoever, who made it to the top on the strength of his own ability and who tried to do his best for his country by his own lights. That's quite a lot more than could be said for the present leader of the Labour Party, which is why I refused to campaign for Labour in the 97 election.

Moreover Major was not a loser in any meaningful sense. Thanks to our crazy voting system, it was his lot to govern with a tiny-to-nonexistant majority, despite the Tories getting more votes in 92 than those that got Labour its landslide in 97. And Major could hardly be blamed for 97 - by then Labour was wearing Tory clothes, promising to stay wtihin Tory spending limits (which the then Tory chancellor Ken Clarke has admitted even the Tories would not have done).

Getting back to the subject: anyone who, like Timbo, might be thinking of voting BNP as "a warning shot" should remember that Hitler was elected, and no doubt many of the votes he got were intended as "warning shots." When he was asked to form a government it was because he was the only party leader in a position to do so. It was only after becoming chancellor that he changed the rules.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:38 PM

Josh,

Obviously I was tryin' to tell you something. I have no idea what, because you ARE logged on with a real name and stuff like that. It's the meds, son, it's the meds.

Welcome to the 'cat.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Timbo
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:33 PM

brucie

I was introduced by friends from the folk scene. They said it was good fun in the chat rooms. Seems they were wrong, I feel as if I have been sentenced to death by voting once for the BNP for very good reasons. Funny old world isn't it.

I must say that some people on mudcat can't read, refuse to listen or possibly don't understand English. (Not a crime really) However when I am being accused of being Josh and being a racist and that I should have my balls cut off, I wonder if I should bother to try to put any form of debate forward. I have plenty of other things that will keep me busy in my life that will not insult me and my intelligence.

So its fare thee well I am afraid. Hope you find your God and that you achieve everything that you want in life.

For those of you that know him, I am a friend of Leadfingers. Ask him if I am Josh.

Wishing you well,

Timbo

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:48 PM

Well Timbo, FWIW, I could be wrong but I still believe you are sincere and that you are not Josh - a poster who to be honest, I am very suspicious of.

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way but at least from my side there is nothing even close to a "death sentance" being considered.

That however does not alter my view that to even give an organsiation like the BNP one second's support for what ever reason is at best misguided.

Good luck,

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 05:15 PM

Read my earlier posts and u may heed that remark you just made. I would never vote for the BNP again however I thought it would provide some positive discussion. However many just seem to be close minded.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:01 PM

John Major - the glory years!

You're quite right of course - he had none of the advantages life can bestow upon a politician. He had no original ideas, no charisma and he sounded like a speak you weight machine. That somebody who resembled a presentable human being like Michael Hesseltine or Ken Clarke wasn't leading the party at this point is entirely the fault of the twats in hats at the party conference. certainly made John Smith and Blair 's job a damn sight easier.

Major did have the advantage of fighting an election against the one bloke in England who had even less skill in constructing a coherent sentence - Neil K.

Every time you heard questions in parliament and Kinnock went for that 3rd alliteration , your heart sank...."Does the Prime Minister agree that his policies are sanctimonious, sociopathic and sun dried tomatoes....." You could almost hear the nation go as one , "What a flipping idiot!"

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Cllr
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:03 PM

I know who you are timbo and you are not josh. I just didn't want to draw attention to it. The comments from josh are regurgitated BNP propaganda.
WLD- John Major was an excellent politician and a nice bloke to boot I was lucky enough to meet him sevral times and a university friend of mine wrked with him for six months. His intefrity is peerless ( intended joke for those who get it) he managed to operate a government that had a negative majority. Kinnock for all his faults was a great orater and produced some of the great speeches of the twentieth Century (from an accepted academic view point) He also started off the modernisation of the labour party to enable it to become New labour. Of course any one of the hard left woould say this was a crime of an unforgivable nature, Any one who despises our current system won't have a good word to say about any of the politicians from any of the major parties, and the word democracy gets banded about without consideration for the meaning of the word. Its a bit like good taste and bad taste = bad taste is what I don't like and good taste is what I do like. Some people seem to think this applies to democracy as well. I can understand why people vote BNP but it is racist and I abhore the methods they use. in this thread some people are confusing nationalism with racism they are two different ideologies but rascism has been around a lot longer. generalising on the web and in this sort of thread rarely allows anything but the briefest of opinions unless you are blessed with a clarity of style way beyond my humble abilities or my level of patience. Night all Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:01 PM

WLD, you're obviously starstruck on Heseltine and Portillo, so no point expecting you to appreciate John Major's qualities. But for me he is the guy who, together with Albert Reynolds, showed enough courage and vision to start the process that brought peace of sorts to Northern Ireland. Something Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Thatcher had all attempted without success. (Let me repeat, for the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, I am a socialist, not a Tory.)

Josh, I've never doubted your existence, nor confused you with Timbo, nor thought you were merely peddling BNP propaganda. (For a start, I don't think any true BNP apologist would have lost heart in the cause so quickly.) Admittedly I did have the advantage of having seen your earlier post in another thread (the one where you signed in as "Aston University" I think). But don't be surprised that the slightest evidence of support for the BNP should provoke an extreme reaction. You noted at the outset its thuggish element, and if you got closer to them you would see that this thuggish element prevails in everything they're about. They prey on people's fears, and exploit ignorance. A thoroughly bad crew. (Anyone who classes them alongside communists, SWP, etc as Cllr and brucie have done above is giving them a respectability they don't deserve.)

And frankly Timbo, if Leadfingers does indeed tolerate your stupidity enough to count you as a friend, then you have just lowered him in my esteem. You know precisely what the BNP is all about. To know that, and yet still to give them your vote is crass beyond words. I notice you have made only the most pathetic of attempts to explain why you chose to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:11 AM

Them bloody darkies!, they come over here, get all the best new houses built for them, goverment give them free cars, and they've ALL got moblie phones!
its a bloddy disgrace, rate payers, national service, wasn't like this in my day, national service, that'll teach em, bring back hanging, never like this in my day, leave your door unlocked all day, no respect, clip 'round the ear, Enoch Powell, two bob for a haircut, national service, bloddy darkies.
There, now I've covered all the points you had to raise [josh & Timbo], now kindly fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:25 AM

Re Thatcher - "She sorted out the country, but she left it in a mess"!? (Oxy) MORON!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:45 PM

LOL, Sir John!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:31 PM

Timbo,

Shit happens. Your years in the military taught you that.

The thing about getting your knickers cut off--I'm still working on UK English, so I hope knickers is/are an appropriate paraphrase for that disgusting reference to the testes-hangers-orbs word that was used above in such an uncultured manner . . . well, someone said it's not a death sentence. Fu#kin' well would be to me! Anyway, hie yer arse back and get in the game.

m

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 04:49 AM

The idiots at the BNP recently booked a black DJ for a disco at their annual conference, they reckon he sounded white over the phone!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 05:00 AM

Anway, just out of interest, the nationality of the highest number of illegal immigrants currently in the UK is Australian!

I bet the BNP won't mention that in their leaflets!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 05:08 AM

You don't have to be a racist to vote BNP. There are plenty of racists who don't. Being misguided is enough.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 09:41 AM

Ooooh election time's coming along soon guys (UK) Who ya going to vote for? I'm voting Labour, purely cos they're ok, not brilliant, and even though they're screwing over Students with top up fees, the policy makes sense....

But then so did going to war with Iraq at the time...

Josh (yes I'm back and I've re-encarnated the thread)

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 10:15 AM

Still as interested in folk music as ever, eh, Josh?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 10:17 AM

Josh-Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 01:41 PM

Well ,,,,

There will soon be an election and the two main parties are quite beyond the pale. I would have great emotional pain to vote for New Labour, simply to keep the Conservatives out. But I am in difficulty finding an acceptable alternative.

Incidentally, it would be interesting if we did have some hard statistics on immigrants, and types of immigrants - and indeed sections of the population. Are those with identifiable characteristics disproportionately represented in particular sectors?

What do we actually know? It is easy to assume that you have seen what you think you have seen, but in Gravesend, my home town (I live a bit outside actually), we have seen the newapaper reports of the deadly knife fights on the trains - apparently between Kosovan gangs. A friend of mine's daughter has twice been threatened with assault. Both times by persons whose English indicated they were not native English speakers. So I am told. Conversely the only person recently to have threatened me with a knife was plainly a native English speaker, and he did so because I was (rashly) objecting in a pub to a BNP diatribe. Do we actually know whether immigrants, or any particular identifiable group, are more likely to use edged weapons?

What about the drugs trade? In Gravesend there was a well known local family that was an important factor in the local drugs trade. Their name might have made it sound as if they were from one particular ethnic group, but in fact they were from another.

Whatever happened to Eysenck's research on IQ related to nature/nurture? Was it rigorous? I always assumed it was self-selective, but if it really did stand up, should something similar be repeated, or do we have to take it on faith that all men are equal, and if we do, does that apply to women too? Is it sexist, for example, to say that men are by nature more attracated to visual pornography, or to violence, than women are?

Indeed, if we go to "class" as well, why should not those who advocate social mobility not adopt the civilities of the classes into which they seek to be mobile?

I think I'll stop now and toss this over for discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Com Seangan
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 01:46 PM

I dunno. Josh's post is so bereft of reason that it hardly merits getting all hot and bothered about.

But don't abuse the eejit. If he wants to make a point, let him make it. I am interested in what he says: ""THEY should adapt to ours if they want the priveledge of living in the UK. I would do exactly that if I was in their country. And now they're building a Bank of Islam in the UK...""

So, Josh, if you went to an Islamic country you'd have the British missus Or girl friend) wear the hejab and cover her pretty face ? Fair play. Not many Brits do that. But it is a matter of choice.

"And now they are building a Bank of Islam"... oh dear! But what on earth is wrong with that??. The Bank of Scotland is in Ireland for years - and nobody has made a fuss. And I don't think the Scots have any ambitions of taking over the country. But - still - you'd never know what they have under their kilt.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 02:43 PM

Ok guest... I'm going to rise to ur insult for the first time in this forum and on this thread and say to u, fuck off, show ur ill ridden face and log in as ur true self u dumbshit and then talk contstructively rather than taking a rather cheap shot at me. Arsehole.

Richard, I don't know who to vote for anymore....

Com... just step back from my previous postings, I'm looking at the present and future now for my siblings and future children's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 05:40 PM

This is not a cheap shot, Josh, or an attempt to get a rise. But if you genuinely repudiate all the stuff above, why refresh it by adding to a thread that's been dormant for two months? Particularly since your post of 09:41 doesn't really have anything to do with anything that has come previously. Wouldn't it perhaps be better to start a new thread on this topic? If you do I'll gladly join in a debate on the pros and cons of the coming election with you!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:06 PM

I am getting a headache, Josh. You won't like me when I have a headache.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:10 PM

200 josh go play with the traffic.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Josh
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:21 PM

Brucie boy! That's gotta be the longest headache ever!!!!

OK I'll start a new post in the morning.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 06:23 PM

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Feb 05 - 07:08 PM

I'm not a kangaroo, but I enjoy the occasional jump......

I feel (as ever) i can add nothing constructive to this debate, however I will trade insults with anybody for your right to say it.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 11:52 AM

Does the BNP really propose sending everyone back to their places of origin?

How many generations back do they intend to start from?

Is everyone presently residing in Britain was sent back,the country would be empty & there'd be piles of space for immigrants!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 12:46 PM

"Does the BNP really propose sending everyone back to their places of origin?"

Spend the first nine months trying to get out of it and the rest of yer life tryin' to get back in.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:30 PM

Um...hey! Could you please send some of these immigrants up to Scotland, if you don't want them? We've got a falling population problem, and we're not to bothered about our English heritage being destroyed...:0)

I'd rather drink a pint of liquid shit than vote BNP (braindead nazi pricks?) but maybe that's just me...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:37 PM

Only a pint?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:40 PM

Oh, hell...as much as it takes to stop braindead nazi pricks getting elected. A pint of liquid shit, a yard of liquid shit....a veritable river of liquid shit. Enough liquid shit to fill the Albert Hall...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:48 PM

Not the Albert Hall. It has holes already.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:56 PM

But the holes are rather small...

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Chris Green
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 06:40 PM

Still, you have to laugh, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 07:13 PM

loada tripe!!

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: Peace
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:24 PM

Tripe? I'd sooner eat the stomach of a cow.

Subject: RE: BS: I am not racist but I vote BNP
From: mandotim
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:50 AM

I wasn't going to get involved, but I feel I should. There is a long term historical perspective to this. The history of powerful civilisations shows us that as wealth and prosperity grows, there is an increasing reluctance on the part of the indigenous population to carry out the less edifying tasks that keep the society functioning. The consequence is that such societies tend to seek labour from outside their borders; examples include the Roman Empire (read Gibbon's 'Decline and Fall...'), slavery in the United States, the economic boom in the 1950s in Britain which stimulated Caribbean and Asian immigration, the current migration of Filipino labour to the West and the Middle East, the UK recruiting nurses from overseas; the list is long. There is a parallel process whereby those who live in less prosperous areas see the opportunity to improve their lot, and move by whichever means they have to hand (boat people, Cuban refugees, asylum seekers et al.)The whole system can be seen as humanity trying to reach some kind of equilibrium, where there is enough food and other resources to go round. I suppose what I am trying to say is that there is a historical inevitability to all of this; the principle of entropy ensures that civilisations, like all systems, decay over time, despite efforts to shore them up. Rather than trying to preserve some kind of racially and culturally static situation, the real trick is to try to assess what the next point of equilibrium will be , and move swiftly towards it, using the tools of statehood as necessary. A good primer for this thinking is Francis Fukuyama's book 'The End of History and the Last Man'; before the racists jump in, he's a third generation American. To give my own background, I live near Stoke, and I'm originally from Saddleworth. I'm deeply saddened by what has happened to my home town, especially the lack of tolerance. A musical link; go to www.webfolk.net , and have a look at Geoff's song 'Reclaim the Flag'. As an example of misunderstanding; he was accused of being racist when someone heard this for the first time.
Regards to all
Mandotim (Tim from Bit on the Side)