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BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Nov 08 - 10:20 AM I have discovered a couple of "trap crops" by accident in the past--what do you plant for that use and what are you trapping? Every year I seem to have a new group of pests to learn about, but it would be nice to lure some of them away from the place they'll do the most damage. This year the tobacco horn worm really came in big, but then, they're the youthful phase of the beneficial sphinx moth. I have to decide how to deal with the young'uns if I want to benefit from the adults. They go for all of those--tomatoes, peppers, eggplant (but particularly tomatoes and peppers). SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 26 Nov 08 - 10:43 PM Nicotine is an effective pesticide for several small insects, except for plants in the nightshade family, to which it belongs. If you smoke (and, sad to say, I do) always wash your hands very thoroughly before working in your tomatoes, potatoes or eggplant. Tobacco in cigarettes may still harbor pathogens that attack nightshades, and you can spread those deseases to your nightshade crops. Nicotine sulfate in a pesticide manufactured by Bayer may be responsible for Bee Colony collapse. Informative but incomplete article on nicotine Good article on soap. Soaps and nicotine do not leave lengthy residues and so are probably more benign when used correctly than synthetic pesticides. But they both also have the potential to harm beneficials. Moderation in all things, I guess. Over time, I found that using row cover at the proper time, planting trap crops, and good garden hygiene resulted in a substantial decrease in my need to use pesticides of any kind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Nov 08 - 10:09 PM I've seen him. He has some odd mixes and a few peculiar ideas, but overall, it is a better start than heading for the Ortho aisle at Home Depot. I prefer the organic way that is promoted by Howard Garrett (The Dirt Doctor) here in Texas. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 26 Nov 08 - 08:07 PM Jerry "Somebody", Rigs... Beer and soap for everything... Wierd thing... About 10 years ago I had problems with about 10 of my 11 pot plants... It was late July and they all started showing "die back" so I mixed up some dish detergent and beer and put it on every one of them and within a couple weeks they were lookin' real good... Best ever, might of fact... As fir the garden, the freeze had been so severe (low 20s) that everything is knocked down... The next thing we need to do is get some chicken manure on it and plow it in... Ain't that easy to get the manure to where it needs to be... Gonna be one tractor front bucket at a time... Hope things warm up 'cuase right now about 45 minutes on the Katbota an' everything is numb... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Riginslinger Date: 26 Nov 08 - 07:56 PM Who's that guy on the radio who's always advising people to use soap suds and tobacco juice for their plants? Is there any truth to what he says? Has anybody tried it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Nov 08 - 10:39 PM I love this time of year--the leaves falling smell so good, and I'm piling up what I can on the compost and I have a sprinkler set on top to water it in, kind of hold it down (if it is a lot of loose leaves) and start planning for next year. Chard in the garden is tasty and beautiful, there are still a few onions and stray carrots out there amongst the oregano. The eggplant have been severely trimmed back and I'm going to try mulching the roots heavily and see if anything survives to sprout in the spring. We had an eggplant hedge this summer and in addition to eating a lot and freezing a lot of eggplant Parmesan and canning a lot, I gave tons away. I literally carried eggplants into my office by the bucket-full, and bless their hearts, my co-workers were up the the challenge. They either love eggplant or they don't, but those who do ate well this summer. :) I'm going to invite a few of the neighborhood gardeners, from this end of the street down near the bridge, over for an informal meeting over the holidays to see if we can coordinate our gardens a little. I could have used more tomatoes this year, and I'm going to plant onions so I expect to have a lot extra. I'd love to see us average out the results of our gardening so we all have a good supply of veggies next summer. We're urban gardeners with over-size lots and we like to putter in our yards. I'd like to see if we can donate some of our extra to a local food pantry. I think we're all organic gardeners on this end of the block. I think I'll pull out a tray of frozen eggplant Parmesan to serve at the SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 29 Jul 08 - 11:23 PM Ragdall joined the Mudcat Gardeners Group (at Google). She has some great photos, if you visit the site you can follow the link I dug out to some of her images. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM Howard Garrett article in the Dallas Observer This is the "Dirt Doctor" who has so much useful organic gardening information at his site DirtDoctor.com. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Jul 08 - 04:25 PM Bobert, take your camera with you to town next time and walk into the camera store and ask them to show you how it works. It probably has a card in it; do you have a card reader? If not, they're cheap, or you can use a cable from the camera to the computer. Download a copy of Google's Picasa program and use it to size your photos for the web. Your garden, as usual, sounds lovely. I've put a few little spots of white flowers in, and do enjoy how they glow in the moonlight. I have a couple of large jimson weed plants (sacret datura) that open at night and are lovely for a few hours before sunset and after dawn. I had a lovely bed of white flowers, impatiens and vinca, but the dogs tore it up in the back yard. No flowers to speak of back there now unless they're up on shrubs. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 08 - 09:52 AM lol, srs... I have a digital camera but am clueless how the danged thing works... Okay, I might, at the very best, be able to figurate how to take the piccures but stuffin' 'um into this pudder is way beyond my grasp... I need a teenager... We have a walkie talkis that we can't use because we can't figurate it out... Same with out phones, clocks and just about everything else that runs on 'lectricity... Hey, it ain't like we are a couple dummies er' nuthin but we ***are*** seriously lexdexic and can't make instruction books work for us... The P-Vine is worser than me and I'm bad... Like I said, we need a teenager to live here fir a couple weeks and teach us how to use all this junk we have bought over the years... Now, as for yesterday... Everyone went away with all kinds of wonderful azalea cuttings... I am a firm believer that a successful garden has 50% white flowers so every year I go for the white hybrids... This year's hot white hybrid is "Secret Wish" which is a large flower (4 inch) with a glowing green throat... It's been around a several years but the originals have just reached adulthood and the plant really stands out in a garden with that glowing green hue to it... We have two one year olds... I picked one of the 2 bags of "White Jade" cuttings that one of the hybridizers brought... Never heard of it but it sounds like its gonna be simialr to "Secret Wish"... We'll know in 2 years providing the cuttings do okay... I think there are 4 or 5 cuttings in the bag and I'll spred them between two pots to optimize our chances of getting one good plant... All in all, looks as if we have about 25 bags of cuttings so I know we'll be busy over the next couple days 'cause that represents about 100 cuttings that need to be set... We were lucky to have one of the most successful ptopagators stay overnight and we've been picking his brain for his secrets... He gets blooms on one year olds!!! Gotta got... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Jul 08 - 12:22 AM Bobert, can we convince you yet that you need a digital camera to run out and take photos that you can share right now? Janie, how's your new place coming along? What are you managing to move, or did the lack of sun on the property alter the course of the transplants? Kat, please let us know about your innovative orchid recovery program. Nero Wolf is interested if it works. ;-) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 13 Jul 08 - 09:17 PM Well, well, well... The siege is over... The Azalea Society people from No. Va. came today and left and it's o more balls-to-the-wall weeding and mulchin' and moving this and that to whereever.... It's over!!! Hooray!!! Freedom!!! But the joint looks great... Ready for some gardenin' mag to take the pictures just before me and the P-Vine go on a four month drunk and let let it go to pot... lol... Whew... I ain't never worked so hard on friggin' gardens in all of my life... And yesterdsay, the day before the "big day" I went off to a state blues compettion and left the poor P-Vine to fend fir herself on the last day before the party/cookout/cuttin' exchange... Yeah, okay, we got 2nd but, hey, 2nd wasn't bad money for a day of having fun and playin' for 30 minutes... Now the question is for the P-Vine: What next??? I don't have a clue but I'd be willin' to bet in involves a shovel... lol... well, no really lol... B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Jul 08 - 09:00 PM My jelly-making friend came over this morning and we picked grapes again, a little more scientifically this time. Put a drop cloth on the ground and snipped bunches out of the tree with my limb pruner (minus the saw). And shook vines and dropped grapes also. He took the fruit home to his steam juice extractor and came up with a rosé colored juice, while mine, cooked with skin, seeds, sticks and all, is a full-fledged Chianti color. We each have about 2 quarts, so we'll do some scientific jelly-making. 1 batch of his juice straight, 1 batch of my juice straight, then we'll combine the rest and see what happens. Wondering if the flavor is in the skins or just the juice. Soon I'm going to have my 16-year-old go help me pick one more bucket of grapes. I want him to have his own batch, something he picked, juiced, and turned into jelly. Hey, he can make bread, he knows how to make peanut butter, now this is the third leg of what my friend calls "the fifth major food group" - PB&J. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Jul 08 - 02:57 PM Eggplants galore these days. Tomatoes are still green, but some of them are about as large as they will probably grow. I've filled in a few gaps with more sweet banana pepper plants for later in the season. I'm doing a gray water experiment now, pouring rinse water on targeted plants rather than watering the entire yard. My veggie garden has a couple of dozen piles of dirt from the cicada killing wasps. I sometimes have to push the dirt off of smallish plants, but we seem to be co-existing so far. I have big fat toads who hop around out there. I spent the morning in the woods across the street instead of in my garden. I hauled my articulated ladder into the pickup along with a couple of buckets and I picked a bunch of mustang grapes that drape a large tree. I picked for about an hour. When I got the leaves and some of the stems cleaned out it was enough to completely fill my stock pot. I cooked it down and have strained it a few times and have a couple of quarts if this wonderful smelling bright red grape juice. A friend and I will make some jelly this week. I've never used these wild grapes before, but this is the first of many batches, I can tell! (I do have to take the pruners to cut and rake away the poison ivy away from the base of the tree.) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Jul 08 - 11:23 AM I haven't heard how it went, I think they were in DC because they planned flying from there back to hot and dry Texas today. I saw part of that Capitol Fourth on TV and they didn't get rained on there if they attended. I envy you your rain. I picked up two barrels so far and will see about getting collection kits and a pump. I spoke with a friend at work on Thursday--he runs a print shop and they have a couple of submersible pumps for moving printing or developing chemicals around the plant. He also has a pool and a large aquarium at home, so he was able to consider my plan and suggest that I get a simple pump from an aquarium store. He has a "transport pump" he uses when he has to empty water out of his salt-water aquarium to put in new fresh water. Sounds like it is efficient and a good size for what I'm planning. I'll report back once I get those pieces assembled. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 08 - 08:56 AM Yes, lady bugs will eat aphids...And they are civilized enough to pick up and move to where you need them... BTW, we ordered a few Praying Mantis cocoons when we moved here and now have thousands of them working for us... And like SRS, we have toads... We also have frogs down in our pond... One of our cats likes to hunt them, drag them home and leave them on our patio... But the cat doesn't hurt them so I've been the frog cabbie lately transportin' back to the pond... SRS, Hope the bosses kid and spouse had a better 4th than we did... I was 45 minutes into my 1 hour set when it started to rain... Forunately for me and the band we were under a big tent which was over the stage but the 300 or so folks in the audience got wet and over half left after we finished... Glad we weren't the last band 'cause they played to an empty park 'cause the "occasional showers" showered all night... Oh well, the garden's all got a good soaking with about 2 inches of rain over the last 16 or so hours... B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:43 AM The B-52-sized cicada-killer wasps are hovering over my garden, and I must have 8 or 10 mounds of dirt now. They don't seem to be doing any harm, but they are certainly the most industrious thing in the yard. The toad that greets me on the porch is fat and mellow these days. I've picked him up several times to move him out of the way and he just rolls with it. Last night he hopped onto the sill like he was heading into the house so I picked him up and moved him aside. He has at least doubled in size in the last six weeks and he doesn't seem interested in eating wasps. I figured out that the things I thought were mealy bugs are actually the weird white fuzzy stage of lady bugs, but they're still aphid eaters. I'll leave well enough alone. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:23 AM They'd be better off in Luray where they can experince the best of small town, USA, on the 4th... DC is a mad house on the 4th... Believe me, I been to quite a few of 'um in DC... But if they are gonna to DC, I'd recommend the GW Parkway between the 14th Street Bridge and the airport... Lady Bird Johnson cleaned it up and put a park rioght there on the Potomac River and you can see the fireworks better there than over on the Maul... But either place will be crowded and parking sucks so take the subway and be prepared to do some serious walkin'... B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:38 PM I passed along the word, they're apparently staying in a rented cabin somewhere in the area, but may be leaving tomorrow in time for the Capitol Fourth celebrations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:23 PM Yo, SRS... You tell the boss to have 'um down to the Rufner Plaza tomorrow 'bout 5 to 6 o'clock and have 'um on a picnic blanket no later than 6:00 'cause that is when ol' Beaubear (Sidewalk Bob) and his band are gonna kick off an hour of some of the rompin'est blues that they will ecver hear in their lives... And then have 'um come on up an' say "Hey" and we'll all walk a couple blocks to where a private party will be going right where the fireworks is fonna happen and these kids will ahve the honeymoon of a life time... Sho nuff... (But, Bobert, ain't all honeymoons supposed to be that???) Yeah, they are... Beaubear (alias Sidewalk Bob) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:21 PM Hey, Beaubear, My boss's son got married last week, and they're still on their honeymoon. They went to the east coast, visited relatives in New Jersey and PA, and "now they're in some little town called Luray, VA," my boss said. They've been to the caverns already. Such a honeymoon. :) There is another cicada killer out prospecting in my garden, I saw her as I came in from work. Chances are by nightfall she'll have a mound the size of a small molehill piled out there. Amazing how fast these insects work! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jul 08 - 02:21 AM Piles of dirt are appearing in my veggie garden now--cicada killer wasps are harmless but conspicuous in the piles of dirt they generate. I'll leave them alone. I posted a photo on the Mudcat Gardeners group page. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: MMario Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:58 AM Aside from colonists on new volcanic soil, and lichens and such; there probably isn't a plant on earth that isn't growing in the composted remains of some animal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:50 AM Heating the garden isn't an issue here. I'll see what I can come up with on the tomatoes, Bobert, and report back. Some of them are way bushy compared to the fruit. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 02 Jul 08 - 08:41 AM Well, SRS, the tomato plant will send up branches between branches that won't bloom much but take alot of the plants strength... If you hold up three fingers and think of them as branches on yer plant then if you take out the middle one, that is called suckering... Now if yer plant is up like 3 or 4 feet tall then those middle branches will havr some size to them and your need to cut them out with pruner sheers... You might end up taking a 1/4 of each plant but yer plant will produce some fine fruit that way 'cause more of yer nutrients from the roots are going where it's supposed to go... Another ol' trick that works is to go fishing the day you plant yer tomato plants and put a bluegill in the hole first, then a little dirt on top of the bluegill and then plant the tomato on top that... The bluegill will feed the plant for the entire season... Yeah, kat... The cherry tomato is the earliest to make fruit... We grew all our tomatoes from seed this year but didn't have any for the cherry tomatoes but, as per usual, we have several stray tomato plants that have come up in the garden so we've left a few to grow hoping that one is a cherry tomato... Once we get one we'll pull the other strays up... We had a cool May so our stuff is about 10 days behind... BTW, Mr. Clifford says that you plant yer warm veggies after you have had 5 nights of 50 degrees or better... I always heard that the soil temperture needs to get to 55 degrees... I donno... I did hear recently that if you plant yer seedlings in cold soil that they don't just sit there waiting for warm to take off but that it retards their grown once the soil does get warm... I donno... I do know that it's good to have smallish river rocks in the garden because they hold heat better than plain soil... Well, time is a'wasting... Back at it... 10 days 'til our garden tour... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 01 Jul 08 - 11:42 PM Ewww...I wouldn't feel like much of a vegetarian if I knew I was eating a tomato which grew well off a dead chicken.:-< Bobert, your place sounds gorgeous, though! Anywho...we have our first two grape tomatoes just about ready to pick from the two potted plants we set up. They both have lots of blooms, baby green tomatoes, and seem to be quite happy now that I've moved them to where they get a bit more sun. I have to make sure the dog doesn't get to them before we do; that's what he did in WY...ate all the cherry tomatoes before we got to them! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:06 PM I always just put tomatoes in the ground and let them grow--what do you do to sucker them? How many branches or do you pinch of flowers, what? I got some last ones left on the table tomatoes this year (an odd mix, and not the ones I like best) and I have an odd shaggy bunch out there now. Some are really bushy, others are leggy. One of my squash (I only have a few) just keeled over. It's too close to the house, I'll avoid planting to near the wall next year. I have a new bed with lots of air and sun that I'll be working on in the fall for next spring. Maybe get a couple of fall things in for this year, who knows. I have to put out a lot more mulch now also. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:27 PM SRS, You will be amazed aty just how quickly wtare falling on a roof and down into a gutter and downspout will fill a 55 gallon barrel... If you take a house that is like 40 feet long and 24 feet deep and collect the water from one side or the other of the roof it will take less than a an inch of rain to fill a 55 gallong drum to the top... There are companies that offer kits and you might want to look intom them... You don't need much but you do need a valve at the bottom and and overflow flange and a screened inlet port for the top... I've rigged up a few with hardware store stuff but the kits are cheap and make the rain barrel very efficient... Back in Wes Ginny I had a 350 gallon tank under my back deck where all the rain water from the back half of the roof went... It had an electric pump mounted on top and I had underground hose to my vaggie garden with an oscilator at the end and all I had to do was flick a switch and, wah-laa, the veggie garden would get watered... It was quite a system, not to mention a cool thing to show off... We spent the day in the veggie garden today weeding, mulching (straw), suckering tomoato plants and side dressing everything that like lots of nitrogen... We have this guy who has a chicken farm and he calls us now and then when he has "the good stuff"... The good stuff is not only chicken litter but also composted dead chickens... Yeah, I know it sounds gross and it smells purdy bad but if is "the good stuff"... (Dead chickens, Bobertz???) Well, yeah... These chicken houses hold up to 100,000 chickens which grow from peeps to full grown in 45 days!!! Yeah, I know... It is unbelievable but the chicken you buy at the store was slaughtered before it was 2 months old... Anyway, if you bring in 100,000 peeps than there are gonna be a certain number that die from various reasons during the 45 days they are being grown and the state makes chicken farmers compost the dead chickens and so each chicken farm has that special compost areas where one day "the good stuff" is ready... I keep my pile way away from the house in the woods and take the tractor down there and scoop a bucket now and then for the veggies... Side dress them and it's... BINGO!!! They take off a'growin... Anyway, today was the day so I reckon we are off an' running now... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:18 PM I jettisoned the compost bin experiment--as you predicted, Bobert, there was plenty of moisture. So much that it wasn't working properly. I dug a hole in the yard compost pile and tipped the contents of this bin in under cover of dusk last night, crossing my fingers that it seeps into the bin and doesn't get stinky (the latest heap is out in the front yard). I'm going to pick up three barrels from a friend who works at a metalworking plant. He brings home the big plastic 55 gallon barrels from non-regulated items (the benign non-EPA regulated stuff, he says) and has used them around the yard to hold water and to catch rainwater and such. He's an organic gardener also, BTW. I'm planning to set up water stations and see if I can work out a gray water into the veggie garden operation in a couple of spots, and in another, I want to see how much rainwater I collect and how long it takes to use in the flower beds out front. Janie, how is your move going? Have you started transporting pots yet? Sorry I'm not nearby to help you paint! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:24 PM I have lots of foliage but not a lot of fruit in my garden. The ants haven't gone away completely and the peppers look pretty sorry. Now the mealybugs are showing up. Arrrghghhh! I'm simply going over each plant and squashing the little suckers, and I'll spray more garlic pepper tea this evening. I have to put down more mulch, what's out there is wearing a little thin. I had my son working on a brick area that was taken over by lemon balm. He worked all of about 5 minutes. How am I going to teach these kids to garden if that's all the time they spend out there? After getting up at noon? He wants an allowance this summer, he'll have to work for it. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 27 Jun 08 - 03:28 PM Well, that's it for me... No more mulch snacks at night!!! Nevermind... Well, well, well... Seems that all we do these days is pick stuff... The black raspberries are only a few days from giving out but the red ones are coming it... With the good rains we have had we've had a bumper crop of berries... And the cherry trees up on Lewis Jenkins far4m are so full of cherrys that the things could very easily collapse under the weight of them so Lewis is letting anyone pick who wants to... We're freezing alot of berries for next winter... The cherrys will end up in a couple of pies... My back hurts from pittin' 'um... I'd much rather pick than pit... Veggie garden is gonna be a tad late becuase of the cool May we had... The ground didn't get up to 55 degrees until almost the first of June so tomatoes, cukes, eggplant, beans, etc. will be a couple weeks late... But the spinach wat that weather up... Lettuce is giving out... We're having the annual "cutting exchange" for the Northeern Va. Azalea Society here at our place in a couple weeks so every day is weeding and mulching trying to be ready for it... The P-Vine had me demolish an old board fence between the driveway and the house... After it was gone things didn't look quite right so I've spent the last 3 days taking the tractor back in the woods, loading big rocks and dragging them out and have just purdy much completed an 80 long stone wall... Still doesn't do what the old fence did but it is a step in right direction... Plus, the area where I've been getting the rocks has needed a little clean up so between the front bucket (with tooth bar) and a rear 3 pt. hitch York rake It's lookin' purdy spiffy... Well, back at it... It's 94 degrees so I'm taking a short break every couple hours... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 27 Jun 08 - 02:42 PM This checks out as true on snopes, so I thought I'd pass it along, even though it looks as though it's been making the rounds since 2003, I've never seen it before: Subject: Attention Dog and Cat Lovers Over the weekend the doting owner of two young lab mixes purchased Cocoa Mulch from Target to use in their garden. They loved the way it smelled and it was advertised to keep cats away from their garden. Their dog Calypso, decided that the mulch smelled good enough to eat and devoured a large helping. She vomited a few times which was typical when she eats something new but wasn't acting lethargic in any way. The next day, Mom woke up and took Calypso out for her morning walk. Half way through the walk, she had a seizure and died instantly. Although the mulch had NO warnings printed on the label, upon further investigation on the companies web site, this product is HIGHLY toxic to dogs. Cocoa Mulch is manufactured by Hershey's, and they claim that 'It is true that studies have shown that 50% of the dogs that eat Cocoa Mulch can suffer physical harm to a variety of degrees (depending on each individual dog). However, 98% of all dogs won't eat it.' True information about the mulch can be found here - http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoa.htm http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoa.htm http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoa.htm This site gives the following information: Cocoa Mulch, which is sold by Home Depot, Foreman's Garden Supply and other Garden supply stores, contains a lethal ingredient called 'Theo bromine'. It is lethal to dogs and cats. It smells like chocolate and it really attracts dogs. They will ingest this stuff and die. Several deaths already occurred in the last 2-3 weeks. Just a word of caution check what you are using in your gardens and be aware of what your gardeners are using in your gardens. Theo bromine is the ingredient that is used to make all chocolate especially dark or baker's chocolate which is toxic to dogs. Cocoa bean shells contain potentially toxic quantities of theobromine , a xanthine compound similar in effects to caffeine and theophylline. A dog that ingested a lethal quantity of garden mulch made from cacao bean shells developed severe convulsions and died 17 hours later. Analysis of the stomach contents and the ingested cacao bean shells revealed the presence of lethal amounts of theobromine. PLEASE GIVE THIS WIDEST DISTRIBUTION snopes.com: Cocoa Mulch |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Jun 08 - 01:22 PM Harbor Freight has several types of submersible water pumps for the kind of thing I'm thinking about as far as using gray water. And you can get "dirty water" pumps, a good idea with particles from rinsing. There are a couple that take regular hose attachments, others use tubing. Simply collecting rinse water in a bucket in the kitchen sink would add a fair amount of water to my little garden outside that window. I have trichogramma wasps out there, and I'll put out another batch this weekend. Still plenty of pests, though. Started spotting a fewe mealybugs this week. The wasps should take care of them, but this probably means the garden is stressed. Need to put out more mulch and do another fertilizing. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 26 Jun 08 - 10:34 AM Yeah!**bg** |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Jun 08 - 01:07 AM "Maggie's soap nuts." What an inspired name! ;-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 26 Jun 08 - 12:47 AM I've been meaning to try Soap Nuts, Maggie. You might be interested in them. There's more info on this blog. Here's Another place to buy them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Jun 08 - 12:29 AM You're right, Bobert, there might be rules, but this village is a kind of odd little place that is surrounded by Fort Worth. I have been thinking about maybe filtering through sand into a modified French drain into a gardening area. I've had this thought before, about the permaculture process, but never acted on it. A friend of mine went and bought a 3000 gallon tank after we had a similar conversation (he will use it as a cistern, and that was what I was originally thinking about). But a plastic channel, filled with sand and with periodic outlets into a garden area might be a good way to "filter" gray water and avoid any possible odors of shampoo or dishwater. I'd have to find a different laundry soap before I used that water. Think about it--by just using gray water, you all of a sudden have a lot more water and actually could flood out your garden, if you put a day's worth out every day--we use so much. It means you need more garden or to use less water. Or something like that. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 08 - 08:46 PM Just a thought, SRS, about using gray water... I'm sure it's okay to talk about it here but it might not be to yer neighbors... Many local governemnts have laws on the books about gray water... Back in Jefferson Co., Wes Ginny, it was against the law to use gray water for anything??? Go figure??? Yeah, stupid law but there ain't no shortage of stupid laws... Here on the Blue Ridge it's all work and no play... Three weeks away from the garden tour and we have been weeding, watering, mulching every day... We hired a lady who is a weed-aholic for 2 days and she went to war with 'um... We had hail in the area two nights ago and it ruined alot of folks veggie gardens but we were blessed to note get much of it and what did fall was real small... Put some small holes in a couple canna leaves but that was it... Our farmer friend, Mr. Clifford, got blasted a half a mile from here and it put a big hurt on his veggies... Looks like we'll be givin' him stuff this year... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 25 Jun 08 - 05:11 PM Thanks, Maggie. IN looking for organic, safe alternatives to pyrethrin sprays for the bugs eating my sunflowers, I came across a neat posting about kids experimenting with organic gardening. Near the bottom of the page is a paragraph of two about a company which will send out beneficial bugs to kids who commit to using them to conduct investigations. It's a neat idea which you may read about HERE. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Jun 08 - 12:31 PM I have a small drill-driven pump that has a hose adaptor on it, but there are quite a few available for this kind of thing (look up pumps at someplace like Ben Meadows). One bathroom has a window and I would probably put a tank on a stand outside that room and let gravity feed to the adjacent garden when needed. It would need regular cleaning with shampoo and soap in it, to keep the tank from getting too crusty, but shampoo and soap aren't going to hurt the garden. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 25 Jun 08 - 11:42 AM How are you getting the gray water out there, Maggie? Do you already have a collection system in place? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Jun 08 - 10:43 AM We're heading into drought mode here, so I'm again contemplating a couple of things I've threatened in the past. Gray water into the yard for gardens, primarily (have to relocate one, or at least establish it new), but also, what is the process to lay out a bed based on permaculture concepts? Move the soil, create zones, add compost, gray water, etc. Anyone dabble in that? What would you plant in it if you set one up? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 Jun 08 - 01:05 PM I bought a used blender ($4) at the garage sale yesterday, and have ordered a set of three replacement gaskets. The one in it now will stand a true test this morning--batches of garlic tea and garlic pepper tea. Strong stuff, enough to eat holes through old rubber. :) After two days of rain the garden shot way up. Now I need to keep it up there and healthy, and I'm still battling ants with aphids in the peppers. Arrggghh! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Jun 08 - 06:16 PM More rain this morning. More little holes in my eggplant, and ants on the plant. Gotta get on top of them. Spent all day at a garage sale, and will spend tomorrow morning also. After that, attacking the area for a new bed and weeding an existing bed. Slowly and surely I'm getting these beds under control. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jun 08 - 12:40 PM Well, well, Mona took one look, smiled and told me a small cutter bee was making baby blankets out of my redbud tree! She said once she gets done doing that, she will come back and clean up the bugs to feed to her children. After reading the info on that link, I am not going to do anything except maybe put some cheesecloth over the tree for a little bit. It's odd that she hasn't bothered my roses at all. The sunflowers are being eaten by a teeny-tiny caterpillar that eats the underside layer and, if they eat it a little too thin, then the upper layer collapses and makes it look as though it is eating holes in it. She said any vegetable garden pyrethrin would take care of that. So mysteries solved! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:13 AM Mona, at the garden center, asked me to bring in a leaf from the sunflowers and one from the redbud tree so she can see if it is the same pest AND so she can identify it, too. Then, maybe I can figure out a non-poisonous way to get rid of them! Here's a picture of what it is doing to the Eastern redbud tree: Click Here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 20 Jun 08 - 10:38 AM *Ahem* unless one is down near the river or an irrigation ditch, they won't find any frogs or toads here in the high desert.:-) The closest we might come would be the horned toad and he ain't gonna be anywhere near a garden with water and green things.:-) Bird bath I can do. I'll move it from the backyard to the front. It'll be more entertaining for the cats looking out the window that way, too.:-) I am just going out now to see how things are this morning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: MMario Date: 20 Jun 08 - 08:56 AM we've had rain the last day or so as well; I think some even pentrated into the ground! Roses are starting to bloom; the last of the rhodies are blooming and the iris have started. I have more colours of siberian then I thought! Sadly - the rain knocked out a lot of the peonies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 08 - 08:05 AM One thing that can be done to cut down on bug problems is making the garden "bird friendly"... A bird bath alone will attract enough birds to make a dent in the insects... We are fortunate in that we also have toads and lots of tree frogs... They eat the heck outta bugs... Now, tree frogs you can't get if you don't have the right conditions but most folks have toads and if Mr. Toad has a nice little toad house he will stay in or around your garden and be yer buddy, too... Turtles are also helpfull but they tend to be wanderers but I always stop fir 'um on the road and if it ain't too far from home take 'um home and put them in the garden... If it is too far I just assist them in crossing whatever road they are stuck on... BTW, why did the turtle cross the road??? Nevermind... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Jun 08 - 11:42 PM I picked up a pound of peeled garlic at a local Asian grocery, along with some jalapenos, and am going to make some garlic pepper tea for critter control. I just have to remember which critters it controls. I've made it before, it does work, but it has been a while. Very heavy rain in a dawn thunderstorm today, at least an inch. My yard gasped a sigh of relief! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Jun 08 - 02:17 AM Not everything munches at night, so one look might not help, but if you make it a practice you'll see lots of interesting things going on anyway. On my way back in from emptying the trash I offered a little toad a June bug but he declined and headed into the eggplant leaves. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:50 PM I guess there's something to said for scrubby grass, then?**bg** Thanks, Janie, fates are let go...:-) I did go out with the flashlight, in my jammies, no less, and didn't see a thing under the leaves or along the stems. Maybe the DE has already kept them away? I can hope, eh? It's odd, I don't see grubs, caterpillars, no earwigs even. I might call the extension office tomorrow and see what they say. Thanks and g'night. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:13 PM Whatever critter you got, Kat, it ain't japanese beetles. They feed during the day, and there ain't no missin' 'em. If you don't have them right around you, just smile and keep quiet about it, and don't tempt the fates. It may be that you don't have much growing that attracts them. If you don't have much grass, the grubs might have a hard time of it. The grubs feed on plant roots and organic matter in the soil. If you don't have much grass (I think I remember you saying you don't, your environment may be hostile enough to the grubs to keep them at bay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:44 PM I've never seen Japanese beetles here, but a quick search show they do exist here. Though one thing said they leave the leaves looking kind of feathery, leaving the spine, etc. My leaves are chewed around the edges, kind of scalloped. I'll try the DE for tonight, at least. Thanks for the link, Maggie. Thanks, Bobert and Janie, too! I'll take a look tomorrow at the other remedies and go look with a flashlight tonight. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:57 PM I remember the year I decided the proper role of roses in my landscape was as a trap crop for japanese beetles;o0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:55 PM Kat, diatomaceous earth is not likely to have much effect in controlling earwigs. Traps are your best bet. (those newspapers, or boards, etc.) They like dark, moist places and love mulch and compost - and especially love leaf mold - so they can be a real problem. You probably have a different species than we have here, but the earwigs common to this area tend not to chew on leaves - they can wreak havoc to blooms - nothing is supposed to bother daffodils and narcissis, but some years they absolutely ravage mine. I didn't have much of a problem with them for years, but apparently got an infestation with a dump truck load of compost I had brought in one year. I've had problems every since, though some years are worse than others. Trapping them and dumping them in a bucket of soapy water does seem to help control them some. I have also tried raking off all the mulch, letting the top layer of soil dry out some, and then replacing with new mulch, with some success. Bobert, I saw my first japanese beetle this morning on daisy fleabane growing along the road. Stilly - I'll send cultivation info. when I send you the poppy seeds. Where you live, you will want to strew some of them late this fall, and more in late winter for extended bloom. Want any rose campion seeds? I have white and magenta. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:35 PM 'Bout time for them pesky Japanese Beetles to make their yearly assault so maybe that's what is eating yer stuff, kat... We keep old jars (with lids) around with water in 'um and pick the J. Beetles off and drop 'um in the jar... That takes care of 'um... No poisons... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:48 PM DE is easily "puffed" out of a bottle like the kind you get for ketchup (my spell check didn't like "catsup"--am I the only one who spells it that way?) or mustard, with a pointed skinny cap. I have a couple that are larger than the usual table-size that I bought at a restaurant supply place near me. I've been trying DE myself in several situations. I periodically make a shallow depression in the garden and put a dish there with an inch of beer in it. Surprising what turns up drowned in the morning. Slugs, snails, pillbugs. Maybe earwigs. If you have a hand sprayer sprayer you can use water with orange oil (like TKO or Delimonene) and soap and spinosad or neem on some of these things. (Do you have Ace Hardware or Big Lots nearby? They carry a nice little half-gallon pump sprayer for about $4.50) Visit http://www.dirtdoctor.com and poke around the library and you'll find lots of hints on dealing with all sorts of bugs. Best way to figure out what is eating your plants is to go out with a flashlight at night and look at those leaves to see what is there. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:26 PM The collective knowledge in this thread is astounding! I am takign baby steps. Right now, something is eating my sunflower leaves and also the leaves on my newly-planted Eastern redbud tree. We think it is earwigs as we do have them around here. So, I bought some Diatomaceous Earth, but it doesn't have instructions about applying on or near plants, just getting it into the crevasses, etc. and just as dire warnings as the chemical poison stuff, it seems! The only thing I can think to do is sprinkle it around the base of each plant in the evening after all watering is done, then again the next evening. We don't see any bugs on them during the day, so assume it is night time when they come out to feed. Does that sound logical? And, any suggestions on what else we could do? I read somewhere, if you roll up a wet newspaper, the earwigs will gather in it overnight, then you can dispose of them, in the paper, the next morning, but that would be really unhandy for where I have the sunflowers and I don't know if it would keep them from eating away, anyway. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 08 - 12:44 PM In spite of the heat wave we had we have been blessed with decent rains... 2.2 two weeks ago... 1.8 over the last 3 days... Plus we keep the ossilators going bewteen rains... Right now we are getting the last few beds around the house that haven't had the "full treatment" ready for a garden tour the 2nd week of July... The full treatment consists of weeding, puting down two layers (sheets) of newspaper, then landscape cloth and then the appropiate mulch... We use a chipper to grind up leaves and use them around acid loving plants... But we also buy double shedded mulch which is delevered in a big truck (12 yards) and we also have friends who have a large pine forest and we collect bags and bags of pine needles... The veggie garden is mulched in straw which is great for keeping down the weeds and holding moisture and then at the end of the season I just hook up the plow to the tractor and plow it in for the winter... All in all, most everything looks fine... But we all know that there is always something calling out for attention... Right now our pond is completely covered with algea and we have to find a bale of barley to throw in it... Barley bales aion't wasy to find... I'm not too sure if a bushel of barley would do the same thing??? Well, short nap and back at it!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM I just added another photo, a pupa of something with a long curled tail. It was as long as the blades on my little hand pruner. I add you to the group if you want, using that gmail address I have, if that would be easier. Bobert, how's your spread holding up in the heat? It smells like burning grass around here. Of course, this could be a grass fire in Mexico, the smoke travels and lingers low. But that's what it smells like this morning. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 17 Jun 08 - 12:27 AM HERE's one article about it. That's incredible! Maggie, I'll see about joining up in a day or two. I don't have much to post for pix, yet, but will keep it in mind. I am enjoying reading and looking! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 16 Jun 08 - 11:41 PM Can't find the article now, but earlier today on either CNN or the Raleigh News & Observer website, I read about a 2000 year old date palm seed some one has successfully sprouted in Isreal. Neat! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 16 Jun 08 - 11:39 PM Spent some time contemplating the yard at the new house this weekend. I'll try to get some pictures this weekend. Looks like those oaks suck up most of the available moisture. Looks like a lot of dry shade. I'm having second thoughts about moving any of my Japanese Anemone over there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 16 Jun 08 - 10:59 PM I was going to trim a low little limb on the redbud yesterday when I realized it was where the fireflies park themselves during the day. I posted an image at the Mudcat Gardeners page. I should dig out some of my tarantula photos, and a some of the other folks who live in my garden. Lots of Mediterranean house geckos and native toads these days. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:12 AM Dug up and moved a cactus and agave (and lots of agave babies) today. There is a toad in my veggie garden this evening, hopping around in the sprinkler and eating June bugs. I'm glad I can keep this toad in the style to which he/she has become accustomed. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: MMario Date: 13 Jun 08 - 10:18 AM Astilbe - so far haven't managed to keep one alive...maybe I need to try the "benign neglect" method - shove it in the ground and ignore it. That's what finally got Lily of the Valley growing for me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Jun 08 - 10:13 AM DE spritzed on a few plants the ants have been visiting heavily, and instant grits scattered where I want to kill fire ants. I took a large under-planter dish and filled it with water in the veggie garden, then set a brick (they have four or five holes to help grip the mortar) in the middle, stapled my trichogramma wasp card to the stake again and stuck that upright from a hole in the brick. I have yet to see ants voluntarily swim. The cannas that I hated in the front of my front porch are going gangbusters at the side of the house where there was nothing else growing and where I transplanted them. A hummingbird and I startled each other this morning as I hosed the remainder of the dry molasses off of the leaves from a few days ago. I broadcast it when it looked like rain (it was sprinkling enough that the molasses stuck to the leaves). They are robust and beginning to bloom. Once a weed in front yard, they're lovely at the side of the house! Janie, Martha Stewart Living in the July 2008 issue features a deep shade garden, including a flower called Astilbe, hardy in zones 3 - 8. You might want to peruse a copy in the check out stand next trip through the grocery store. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM Bobert, it looks like North Texas is joining you in the oven. I'm going out now (8:30) to mow my lawn. I usually wait and do it at lunch time (I telecommute, so my hours are flexible, but I still try to break the day up along the lines my co-workers use). 100 today, at least. This is where xeriscape gardening shows it's true strength. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 10 Jun 08 - 01:32 PM That link went to one of Janie's posts, I thought it was to the top of the thread. Here is Joybell's adventure. Here in Texas we're usually the ones with the extreme heat. I don't miss it, but I do sympathize, Bobert. It's hard on people and plants. I'm sure we'll get our shot at some of that toasty weather later on, and it tends to be sustained over the course of several weeks. Make yourself a jar of sun tea and find a spot of deep shade and watch the world go by for a little while. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:57 PM Been watering all morning and it's now too hot to be out there for any extended period of time... 102.4 yesterday at 5:30 pm... It's allready 97 and it isn't even 1:00 yet... Hydrangeas are all startin' to bloom... Don't ask what varieties... The P-Vine is the hydrengea nut... Must have 20 different ones... The second patch of poppies are blooming... These are red... Not too sure what the last ones are but should know within a few days... Won't they just reseed, Janie??? Seems they would??? Nap time... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 10 Jun 08 - 10:53 AM I've been poking around through old gardening threads, getting some helpful information and a few chuckles. There was a story from Joybell about falling through a chair (scroll down, this link is to the entire thread) and advice about keeping bermuda grass from flower beds. I also found a good one for daylilies. I started looking because I'm dying to see some of these flowers Janie has seeds for and I'm sure she has put photos up on one of the photo sharing sites. I was going to capture something for the Mudcat Gardeners, get a page started. No luck finding those links, but I remember what looked like a great English garden in front of a Victorian house. Do you have any of those you would like to add, or can send a link to the photo share site? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 10 Jun 08 - 10:25 AM If you want some seeds, you can give it a try. They sprout easily and grow fairly quickly. Maybe up there it could be pruned into a shrub in a pot. The folliage smells good and the flowers are as sweet as lilac (not quite the same, but the intensity can be there on still days). SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: MMario Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:24 AM I looked up the Vitex on the web - looks like it would be borderline here; which means on our property it probably wouldn't survive.... drat. Technically I believe we are zone 5 - but we can't count on anything overwintering that isn't rated at zone 4. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Jun 08 - 09:14 AM I see that the other plant discussion is closed; just as well. I resisted jumping in there--the Ur environment that was represented in sing-song is a way over-simplified goal. And, were it still open, I probably would have jumped in at the end to introduce the argument that some ethnographers and historians make, that the huge hardwood forest that Janie mentioned was also "artificial." By the time pioneers were hacking their way through that part of the continent a couple of hundred years after sustained contact with North America began, the theory is that millions of the Ur Indians on the continent had been killed off by introduced Euro diseases. Their cultivation and burning practices had gone away a couple of hundred years earlier after the disease vectors had done their work, allowing the forest to flourish as never before. (See Keepers of the Game by Calvin Martin). SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM Yes, I'd like to try some poppy seeds. I have places in the yard that are sunny enough and that I can keep the dogs from trampling. Do you have any photos of them? Do they need extra water or are they fairly xeriscape? That Vitex (purple chaste) went in in July of 2002. The back yard tree went in a year later and was a smaller plant to begin with but has almost caught up. It likes well-drained sunny locations but I've seen it at the edge of the understory also. I have seeds for that if anyone wants some. It's pretty un-fussy here. I suppose the winter survival is the research anyone further north or with a more harsh winter would have to do. Here it becomes a small multi-trunk tree, though it is also lovely if you keep cutting off the extra limbs and train it to be a single-trunk tree. It's a twisted garly looking trunk. In a couple of weeks my rock rose will start blooming its head off, and while that one volunteers enough that I mow the seedlings down around the edges and pull it out of other beds, it is such a cheerful plant, in the mallow family, that I keep it rounded up with the mower and let it bloom its heart out all summer long. There has been some debate as to whether this is a native version of a plant that also appears as a South American import. Here in Texas we have a mix of migrants on their own and some that were carried here. Kind of like the coatimundi and other Central American animals that stray up into Texas once in a while. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 09 Jun 08 - 02:41 AM That Chaste tree is stunning, Maggie! How long ago did you plant it? Bobert, Suggest you harvest at least one seedhead of the poppies to toss out in late winter. It will exend the bloom season next year. I'd also like to know if any of the others that bloom are the double pink/peach. I saved seed but didn't sow them, and don't know if they will be viable next year. There is a small section of side yard on the east side of the house that may get enough sun for poppies, and I intend to try. Any of the rest of you want poppy seeds before the goldfinches get them all? (poppy somnifersomethingorother) Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Jun 08 - 12:42 AM This new bed looks good! I curved the steel edging and the shape turned out like I hoped. I'm not finished with the mulch and it needs more flowers planted, but I hate to spend the cash on bedding plants when I have lots of seeds here. My Louisiana iris seems to make a lot of seeds, that must be why it is so prolific. It is fussy, it wants lots of water, and it has a stalk almost like a gladiola, with leaves layered along the flower stalk. I put a photo up on a new page for trading seeds and plants on the Mudcat Gardeners group site. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 08 - 12:56 PM Same here, in for a drink of water, back to the (much smaller, and no peonies) yard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 08 Jun 08 - 12:18 PM Beware of the grits, SRS, 'cause the ones that don't die get real big, drive pick-up trucks and have girl friends with names like Bobbie Sue and Retha Mae... lol... Actually, if you have peonies around the house that's probably what is attracting them... They'll go play elsewhere after the blooms die off... Mowing day here... Yuck... Including the "pond field", the main garden along the woods and the house it's about 6 hours on a 19hp 42" cut lawn tractor... Well, just came in for some water... Back at it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 08 - 11:59 AM My man Howard Garrett (Dirt Doctor) comes through again! His Sunday morning radio program is just ending. I'll clear out the debris from under that window so I can monitor the progress, then I'll put some DE in a puffer bottle and puff it unto that space. And I'll pick up some instant grits and sprinkle them around. They're apparently as good or better than any of the commercial baits (the ants harvest the grits then die from exposure to the grits for some reason). Fire ants, DIE! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 08 - 10:19 AM I've stumbled around in there also. But if you scroll down the home page the categories are Discussions Members Pages Files When you want to work on a page click on the "edit" link on the page (there are a couple of links; redundancy is built into this system). In your case, I just now started a page called "Janie's Garden - 1" When you have the edit screen up then type in the body of it. To place photos click the image icon and you can search your computer for the file you want to upload or pull one you've already loaded from the "+upload file" link on the first page. You can wrap text easily in this system. Drag the image where you want to place it and you'll see three sizes you can choose from. Once photos have been loaded for a page or as an individual file they're all viewable in the Files area. When you're working on your page these photos show up any time you click to add an image; you can use one of those or upload another. Clear as mud? These darned ants are driving me nuts. Another trip to the feed store, beneficial nematodes here I come. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: MMario Date: 08 Jun 08 - 09:36 AM had the water running for 10 hours yesterday - hopevfully will finish up watering today.; potted up three tree peonies, planted a flat each of pink allysum and rose verbena, some dusty miller; have a flat of annual pinks to plant still; also planted 5 packages of oriental lilies, plugged an ornamental pepper into a planter on the deck and potted up three planters of ivy geraniums. I slept well last night. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 08 Jun 08 - 08:18 AM Hmmm.....I can't quite get the hang of navigating the group pages and discussions in a coherent fashion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jun 08 - 11:47 PM That's the same with the diatomaceous earth, they won't cross it. I'll go out early tomorrow and see what I can do. I put out bait this evening so they may collect some of it first thing, but after that I propose to wash the concrete area down and start fresh, once it dries, with a light coat of orange oil on the wall and a line of DE at the bottom. (I also put some beer in a shallow bowl to attract any slugs or snails, now that my veggie plants are getting large and putting out flowers). Why don't you join the Mudcat Gardeners, Kat? Here and you can sign up or I can add you directly if you want to PM the preferred email address). You can upload photos and start a page where you describe your yard. We have a great array of climates represented here already on this thread (I keep hoping some of our Oz members will share their garden stories--they may seem exotic to those of us in the U.S., but the commonality among gardeners is still interesting. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 07 Jun 08 - 11:36 PM The ants will not walk across baby powder. I had some get in the cracks of my dining room windows and get all over my house plants. All I did was sprinkle baby powder along the window ledge and on the table with my plants. They either died from walking on it or left entirely, but I never had a problem with them again. I also sprinkled some around their holes, last year, in the driveway and so far, this year, I only see a few holes. Last year they were everywhere in the driveway. I will be sprinkling them again. I think I'll wait to take pix until more of my stuff is up and blooming, but I will take some, soon.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jun 08 - 10:45 PM I spent much of the day digging and designing a front bed. The easiest thing to do would be to remove everything and put it back where I want it, but some of it simply can't be moved and I didn't get out there early enough to do this work before it grew tall. So I work around stuff. I'm plagued by ants this year, and they're all crawling into cracks in the walls. I think sugar ants shorted out a switch in the kitchen over the sink, and whatever this red ant is (bigger than a fire ant, not so aggressive as a biter, but persistent, following long involved paths and they all head into the wall). I picked up a couple of cards of tricogramma wasps today and one is in the veggie garden and the other I put in out front in anticipation of some veggies out there. I walked past the stick I stapled it to an hour earlier and those ants had cleaned the moth eggs off of the card! Geez! The other one is okay, but I'll treat these like fire ants with orange oil and diatomaceous earth and (last resort, according to the Dirt Doctor) Abamectin. Gotta get these things out of the walls and the garden. I won't try to replace that front card until the ants have been treated. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 07 Jun 08 - 08:02 PM Sorry, SRS, but I ain't navigated the joint nuff to figurae out how to make any comments... But thanks fir putting the pics up... Janie's 1st poppies are up and in bloom... These are lavendar and absolutely beautiful... The other 2 patches are up but not in bloom... I think one is gonna be white but I'm not sure... They are in a great place and I'll just let them resead themselves.... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jun 08 - 10:37 AM I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, Janie, meaning I was intimately familiar with plants that need shade. That's what much of gardening in the PNW is all about. There are marvelous things you'll be able to plant now that you couldn't consider before. Think orchids and salal and trillium and Oregon grape and pipsissewa and blueberries and oh, just tons of moist, shady plants. (If you can muster the moisture). Meanwhile, is there someplace where you can donate those plants that came from friends? The gardener down the road, perhaps? Or can she recommend someone? Kat, sounds like you've laid the groundwork for a nice display this year! Don't rest on your laurels, keep adding those bits and it just gets better every year! Bobert, I still have that second disk to go through and put up on the Mudcat Gardeners page. And Janie, you need to start yourself a page over there. It's quite easy. Kat as well. Off to my little patch. It's overcast and nice this morning. Oh, I should mention that the scenery got altered a bit in the back yard last night. I went out to feed the dogs and the pit bull, who usually does a barking victory lap around the yard when it's dinner time, gave me the look of "stay there, I have something for you" and went into her stall in the garage. A moment later she dropped a fresh dead rat on the step, very pleased with herself. I guess she tucked it into her dog house in the stall to keep the other dog away from it until I came out. I looked around, wondering where she caught it and realized the lemon balm had been squashed at a couple of points. The smallish herb hedge has entry and exit wounds that correspond to the size and shape of a pit bull terrier doing her hunting thing. :) Good girl! I tossed the rat in the wooded path across the street where an owl or hawk or vulture will find it. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 07 Jun 08 - 09:43 AM You're right Bobert. Once I'm moved and settled and living on the place, I think I'll get quite excited about the prospects and the opportunity to learn about gardening in a very different habitat. Even if the lot where I'm moving were sunny, I would have to learn a different asthetic. The big, Victorian style cottage garden I have created here around my 1912 wood bungalow would be entirely incongruous surrounding a modest brick and vinyl 1960's era ranch style house. I've always loved the deep woods and the play of light and shadow, the little gems of spring-beauties, tootworts, wood anemones, trilliums and trout lilies, or a sweep of goldenseal. I've longed to be able to grow astilbes, ferns and cohoshes. I'm already imagining a swathe of your solomon seals, maybe jacob's ladder, native vibernums, hearts-a-burstin', etc. Or simply a bench placed where I can sit and admire the lines and texture of the bark on a tall white oak. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:29 AM Ya' know, Janie, my dear... I thought about this when you told us you were moving into the woods... Just what does a sunny gardener do in the woods??? Well, there is life after the move... As you know, the P-Vine and I moved from the woods to farm that has lots of both... I guess we were lucky because we brought 550 of our favorite woods plants but we reallyu didn't know all that much about plants that like that big round ball in the sky and... ...we are still learning... I know right now isn't the time to say this but woods gardening is also very satisfying... There's a plenty of things that you will be able to grow... How close are you to Charlotte... The P-Vine's gardening mentor, Barbara Alexander, is a fantastic shade gardener and a tour thru her garden is priceless... And can be arranged... BTW, when you get settled, look into joining the Azalea Society... Lots of good folks, most who are not sunny gardeners, plues cheap or free plants... Hope the move goes well... I know it;s going to be hot becuase I have to play music at 12:30 today on a hot parking lot... I'll be thinking of you... Beaubear |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 07 Jun 08 - 12:54 AM Sounds lovely and exciting Kat. Got pictures? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 07 Jun 08 - 12:53 AM Well, I closed on the other house this morning. An older lady, (older than me, anyway,) who I don't know but who has a charming vernacular garden up the street several blocks stopped by one day while I was in the yard and asked if she could have some poppy seeds when they were ready. I was so glad she stopped. I had worked as a docent in her garden a few years ago for the garden tour, but didn't get the chance to meet her. I ran into her in the grocery store this afternoon and told her the poppy seeds were ready. She had heard that I was moving soon from someone, and wondered if she might have some other plants. She is coming down early tomorrow morning before the heat gets bad with nursery pots and we are going to dig up irises and the like for her to transplant. That feels good. I have many more plants than friends and gardening acquaintances can possibly take (and we have been passing along plants to each other for years, so they already have anything growing in my garden that they want. It is those plants from dear friends that must have full-sun that I am grieving, not the plants I bought, or purchased seeds for, except those that are descendents of my first efforts. I need to take a page from Amos' book and delight in the now, instead of clinging to the past. *sniff* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 07 Jun 08 - 12:18 AM Sorry for just jumping in here, but I am so excited. The sunflower seeds we planted are coming up! The new catnip and flax plants are doing well, and the tansy from two years ago has come up like giants, getting ready to bloom, plus the clematis made it through the winter and is blooming beautifully. Sweet pea is bigger than ever, too. Plus I bought some more to put along the dirt driveway side of the house to "prettify" it some. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Jun 08 - 11:32 PM A guy who likes to cook, knit, and garden. How come some really smart woman hasn't snatched you up already, Leo? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: MMario Date: 06 Jun 08 - 11:12 PM I spent about 3 hours watering tonight - will have to continue tomorrow - they keep saying it will rain, and it keeps missing us. B-I-L just got in a shipment of lilies, hostas and Tree peonies which need to go in - he's going to be away for 4 days. Surprise....! Though I have planted about half the hostas already, a third of the lilies and plan to pot half a dozen of the tree peonies for gifts - so a goodly protion of it is done. also have to put in the annual border this weekend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:20 AM I did a gazillion edits and probably still have typos, but I added a page at the google group site. In my yard I've been working on a lot of the big stuff, but this year I finally have enough shade that I can vary the plantings a bit. I'd love to reach a point where I can put in a Japanese maple or some Oregon grape. Not native, but if I pamper them, they'll make it. :) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 02 Jun 08 - 09:45 PM I like a person not afraid to experiment! Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:31 PM Critter control: trail and error number 1 Shallow bowl depressed in the garden to attract snails and slugs. Put apple juice in (didn't have beer handy) but it only attracted fire ants. I've heard about stuffing some bread and water in an open pop bottle and putting that in the ground and it works like beer. I'll try that next. Beer works well, but the gardener would rather drink it than share it. :) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jun 08 - 02:54 PM Cooling off from mowing for a few minutes; looks like this is the last mow in the back for a while unless I water. I have a pump I've never set up that can water from the creek, but I need to run a line and drop a pipe or hose with a filter cover into the creek. Maybe this is the year. Water when the creek is higher so I don't get such concentrated stuff from city runnoff, and only water turf. I'll keep an area near the house green because the dogs are so much happier with some green grass back there. Ask me how I know. . . I'm headed over to the nursery in a little while to pick up some daylilies for out front; I thinned my irises that were over the top of them then actually moved the lilies I have to a different part of the bed. As for the iris, I will relocate some and give away a lot. I'm still working on watering zones as far as my plantings; I'm about to remove some flowers from around a pine that is so xeric that it really belongs in the desert. I've learned recently that these Afghan pines won't last as long if they get extra water, so no point in leaving thirsty Louisiana iris next to it. This year I have several native volunteers still in pots that need to go in now. The Texas star hibiscus will go along the path of the foundation soaker hose, as will the Louisiana iris I just dug up. The vitex will stay put in pots for a while--I sold a few last year when my front tree was in full bloom. I've already seen people slow down to drive past it, so I may get a few bucks for beer or mulch yet this weekend! :-) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jun 08 - 12:14 PM I don't suppose a bowl of beer in the garden will inspire him to drown himself, like the snails and slugs do, but maybe if he's drunk he'll leave the plants alone. Just a thought. Bobert, you're added to the Mudcat Gardeners. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 31 May 08 - 07:17 PM Very nice, M-M... I have a columbine just about the same as yers... They are so nice... Love yer peonies.... Fightin' with Mr. Skunk here... We're moving lots of out smaller azaleas and he's is diggin' um' up at night... Last night he was in my mudroom where I keep my beer.... Grrrrrrrr.... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 May 08 - 12:13 PM MMario posted photos and set up a new page on the Mudcat Gardeners site. Beautiful! (Bear Haven) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 May 08 - 06:09 PM My onions are coming up! I hate to throw away old seeds, so I took some out and poked them in the edges of the veggie bed. Bunching green onions are sprouting in a nice little line! I prefer starting them from seed than onion sets. They're happier that way. I'll have to plant some every so often. I have good luck with sweet onions also. Garlic was dug up last week, and there is oregano going in the garden, along with tomatoes and eggplant and squash and peppers. I see a lot of Italian and Mexican food in my near future! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 May 08 - 04:03 PM Oh, that Bobert, can't leaf well enough alone. . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 26 May 08 - 04:55 PM Well, containers is best, SRS 'cause when ya' do it on the ground pesky roots find it and suck all the goodie outta it from underneath... If ya' have to do it on the ground it best tp put an old sheet of plywwood under it... Sound like a good neighbor to have in that he is willing to share his leaves with you... Because we live purdy much pn a ridge the leaves are blow downhill and way from the house and I have to take the tarctor down there, fill the bucket and bring them up... We run them thru a shredder which chops them up real nice and then they can either go into the composter as shredded leaves or we us the shredded leaves as mulch around acid loving plants... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 May 08 - 04:26 PM Thanks for describing your system--I have a second big lidded tub I could haul over there to use to turn it into the same kind of operation. I've never done this in a tub or container before, always on the ground. Guess I'll get out the drill and put a few holes in the lids. No need for compost starter, I'll scoop a shovel of the existing non-food compost out in the yard. (The dogs don't fool with that.) The grass is to kick start the heat. Fastest way to torque up a compost heap around here is to use some freshly mown grass. Lots of leaves out there also, since I've been pruning limbs in preparation for bulky waste in about 10 days (these are the limbs on trees I'd like to cut down, they're ratty hackberries destroying the fence, but for now I trim them). I'll have to be sure to keep this working fast enough so it doesn't start to smell. That's the other factor I'll monitor, it's between two houses, not way at the back of the yard like before. Good compost keeps good neighbors. . . or something like that. ;-) I thought about Janie and her leaves when she described the yard. She might not have to rake them all herself. If it's like here in Fort Worth, for years I haven't had big trees out front yet I have to rake several times from the neighbor's trees. There seems to be some averaging out over the neighborhood so everyone gets a share. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 26 May 08 - 03:08 PM Air holes, yes... Drain holes, optional... You don't need very much water, SRS... Your kitchen scraps have water in them... Now, stop off at your local gardening center and get some compost starter... It's grainular and just sprinkle some of it in there... It will have the bateria to start the process... After you have yer composter going for awhile if you just empty 3/4's and leave a 1/4th that is enough bacteria to get the next batch going again so technically speaking it's like sour dough bread... Once you get it going it will keep itsel;f going... Our composter is a 2 chamber tumbler... It has 2 40 gallon chambers so we can empty one completely, use half of the other and have enough left to get both chambers going again... Grass is fine but just grass ain't all that good... Lots of leaves if ya have 'um... If not, Janie will ship you some... lol... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 May 08 - 02:19 PM I'll put some more of your photos up later, Bobert. I have a question for the group at large. I don't put kitchen waste in my compost right now because I can't keep the dogs out of it. So I've taken a 33-gallon plastic Rubbermaid bin and put it in an area the dogs can't reach. I dropped in some garlic trimmings and grass from the yard yesterday and poured in some water, as a sort of starter. I'm planning to put in kitchen veggie waste, and have this question: I haven't bored any holes in it, but the process needs water, so I'll have to pour some in every so often. If I turn it regularly will this serve, or do I need to bore drain holes and air holes also? I figure since this thing snaps shut, it isn't sealed, air will get in and out (as will methane). It's a black tub, gray top, and it's set behind a fence so the direct sunlight will only be in the middle of the day when its overhead. I'm not ready to set up a worm bin in the house, so this is my dog-proof compost. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 26 May 08 - 01:42 PM Just a few notes onh the pics... The guy ain't me... But that is the P-Vine... She is the president of the Northern Va. Azalea Society Chapter and he is the VP... We just had a sale of hybrids that our chapter had hibridized overr then years... The opening pic isn't really of any gardens to speak of... It's of our runoff pond with the mountains in the background... We are at 1700 feet here on Tanner's Ridge and what you are looking up at is around 4000 feet... The pic with the wooden structure that looks like a room without walls of roof is exactlt that... It's a pergolla I designed an built and surrounded by boxwood, holly, NC jasmin up the posts... On the other side of uit that you can't see is my pea-gravel bed with crimpomeria, thunderhaed pine (dwaft), gold thread, grand-bande boxwood, etc... Yo, Janie... Welcome to azaleas... BTW, there is a North Carolina chapter... Good source of plants (cheap or free)... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 May 08 - 11:21 AM You could observe the trees for a year and then decide that you need firewood for the next couple of years and take out one to put a gardening gap in the canopy. Don't mistake me--I love trees, I've worked hard to try to establish shade here so I can have some shady plants eventually. Maybe mother nature will help you out and offer a lightning strike or a wind storm to take one out, but if you have your druthers, you could find a spot to focus the light and do a little removal. SRS http://groups.google.com/group/mudcat-gardeners I hope you'll sign up and start uploading your photos! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 26 May 08 - 07:44 AM Shade gardening (foltered sun) is all we knew back in Wes Ginny, Janie... Your Linten Roses will love you... Hope you are into ferns... Azaleas and rhodos... Helibors... Moss gardening... Pulmanaria... Wild flowers in the spring... And the best part about where you are moving is that those oak trees are like giant air conditioners in the hot Carolina summers... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 26 May 08 - 01:45 AM Maggie, I'm hoping to close very soon on a house about 10 miles from where I live now - there had been some foundtion work done on the house that I am not sure was up to speed and so have delayed closing pending a structural inspection. It is a large lot that is very shaded and park-like, filled with tall oaks spaced fairly close together - a high canapy over nearly the entire lot that allows just enough dappled light for the right species of grass to grow - no bermuda grass in sight! In essence, the trees If I do close on this place, it will be very different from anywhere I have ever known and all my aesthetic sensibilities will have to adapt, including those related to the garden. Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 May 08 - 12:49 AM I missed something--I know you will be moving Janie, but where to? Please go ahead and join that Google group--it's closed except to Mudcatters who join so while anyone can read it, it's just us chatting amongst ourselves. And if you do join you can upload your photos very easily. Do a page for the current house and a new one for the next house. I guess I should do a before and after for this house I'm in. The email at that site is my new one that I'm going to consolidate some of my others to. I'm tired of so many email accounts. I did a rescue harvest of some garlic yesterday. I was out trimming limbs from trees that edge the yard and found that some scattered garlic had been knocked over by falling branches in recent storms. I dug it up before the tops died away and out of sight. It isn't a lot, but my house smells like an Italian restaurant at the moment. There are a couple more patches to dig in a little while. The little side garden is growing, the tomatoes have about doubled in size and the eggplants and peppers are looking robust. No sign of seedlings yet, but it hasn't been a week. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 26 May 08 - 12:27 AM Just popped in and caught up on this thread - and what a fine and lovely thread it is! Thanks, Maggie, for setting up the google group for us Mudcat gardeners. Looking forward to seeing more of your photos, Bobert, as well as those of others who will post photos in the future. One of the neat things about reading here is that people are posting from so many different regions, soils and climates. Maggie, you asked about drought. Here on the northeast Piedmont of North Carolina we have had some good rain this spring - wonder of wonders. The water tables are still low, as are stream levels, but soil moisture levels are good for the time being. I can see the drought damage to my garden, but am in awe at the resiilency of of those beings with green above ground and roots below. As sadly neglected as my garden has been for the last year, spring, which is it's forte, is beautiful without my help - riotous color from poppies, hesperis, larkspur, coreopsis grandiflora, veronica, lychnis, field daisies, etc - and all tall enough to hide the weeds that haven't been pulled. In the presence of human neglect, the garden has transformed itself into a meadow garden. At least for spring. One thing I notice this year is far fewer aphids, and no thrips. I wonder if their populations were held in check by the drought. I will soon be harvesting poppy seeds (Papaver somniferum). This year they are all red. If any of you want some, p.m. with your e-mail and snail mail addresses, as I am only making quick checks a couple of times a week right now to the 'Cat, and often just check for pm's, without opening any threads. E-mail, however, I check daily. When the seeds are ready, I'll e-mail back for your snail mail. They will grow in a broad range of climate zones, are stunning spring flowers, and the seeds are not available except as "pass-along." They absolutely must have excellent drainage. If you have clay soil, you will need to make a bed for them, heavily amended to create a well-draining, loose loam. They are so beautiful, they are worth it. It is likely that hesperis (Dame's Rocket), lychnis (Rose Campion, in white and magenta), and coreopsis grandiflora seed will all be ripe before I move, and I'll be glad to harvest some of them also to send. Other than the poppies, I think the rest are readily available through seed catologs. Kat, I continue to read about your "vinegar" adventures with interest. Don't think I will be gardening much for awhile when I move. Going from full sun to what appears to be full shade, and am going to have to live in the place awhile to observe the light and get a feel for what the place wants. Pecan pollen everywhere - gong to be a bumper year. Luv, y'all. Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 May 08 - 08:36 PM Those were only a few. It takes a little time to process the photos for the web and I'm still looking at the possibilities for external html on Google pages before I do too much page stuff. I'd like to use tables, they're a good way to get more photos up, but I haven't tested it yet. If you'll click on the page to request to join then you can edit the page and tell us more about your photos. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 25 May 08 - 08:32 PM Wow, not too sure how you did that, SRS, but thanks... Hope all my gardenin' buds will check out the pics... I tired to capture what we do here with the ol' Pentex but it is impossible... Still pics don't translate... Okay, they may be nice but they in no way represent our gardens... ...so an open invite to any of my good Mudcat garden buds for a private tour... BTW, looks as if the National Rhodo Society is talking about having yus on their tour next year... I think we are allready on the tour schedule for the National Azalea Societ folks for the '09 Convention which will be in NoVa... Thanks again to SRS.... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 May 08 - 05:42 PM Look here before you go to that other link! I figured out how to get that stray hyphen out of the address. The other one won't work now--go to http://groups.google.com/group/mudcat-gardeners to get to the pages I've set up. So far there is one for a few of Bobert's photos. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 May 08 - 01:14 PM I've spent time this morning editing one of the two disks that Bobert sent. I've selected a few of the photos to add to a Google group I created. It's set so people can ask to join or be added by members or manager. To start with, visit the page http://groups.google.com/group/mudcat-gardeners- (somehow I ended up with a hyphen at the end of the name and there doesn't seem to be a way to remove it). I'll be away from the computer for several hours today so be patient, but I think this will let you send a request to join then once you're in you can invite others. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 May 08 - 08:21 AM Yes, but I have to put them somewhere to turn them into that blue clickey. How about if there is a place where Mudcat gardeners can all park garden photos without reference to my particular Photobucket account? Then you can work with your own photos if you want. I'll address this this morning and let you see the results later. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 23 May 08 - 07:55 AM Ummmmmm??? Could you just turn them into a blueclickey??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 May 08 - 12:54 AM You can read them via email or strictly from the web. Lots of choices, and there is room for storing images. Very convenient. (Sorry I had to rush off like that.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 May 08 - 12:42 AM How about I set up a Google group (I just did one for some fellow former Ellis Island rangers earlier this week) where those of us who are interested can all upload stuff, or we can do it for our html-challenged friends? I'll look at the membership options. We might each have to join individually, and decide if we want the outside world commenting or not. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 22 May 08 - 12:35 PM ...lol, SRS... The only thing I can do is click on blueclicky things... Sorry, but I am a tatol moron when it comes to this pudder... As fir asparagus... If it's happy you will get some the 1st year... We planted some last year and cut about a dozen this year... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 May 08 - 11:41 AM You have to rid yourself of zucchini by stealth. :) Bobert, your CDs arrived. I went back through the thread to see what we decided to do. Do you have a page where you post photos? Do you do html (or blue clickies?) I'm finishing a couple of things today but this evening will open the files and choose some to size for the web. I have a Photobucket account, but it might be nice for you to be able to mount your own photo collection and add to it. There are others ways to move things, like to set up a Google group with various members who can upload photos that can in turn can be linked to or saved elsewhere or downloaded on your computer. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: pdq Date: 19 May 08 - 10:53 AM The most important part of raising asparagus is the preparation of the soil before planting. It is almost impossible to have too much fertilizer and organic material. Add things that take years to break down such as redwood compost and peet moss. Also try very slow release fertilizers mixed with faster ones. I have a 30 foot by 30 foot area dug and ready for preparation this fall. Note: asparagus is a long-term proposition and a major investment. A good bed should last 10-20 years, often a lifetime. You can't grow too much good asparagus. Giving the excess away ain't exactly like trying to get red of 2 foot zucchini. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 May 08 - 10:23 AM Jim, I've read it takes three to four years. Good luck--I love asperagus! I'm thinking of dedicating a spot on one side of the house to them, near where my next door neighbor had great luck with a patch (until her late husband dug them up for some idiotic reason.) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 19 May 08 - 07:38 AM I'm still trying to grow asparagus, should have had somehing to show for my efforts this year as it's the 3rd but very small thin shooys. i just don't think they like the weather here or I may try a bit more sand in the soil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 May 08 - 12:28 AM Bobert, There will be more going in in other parts of the yard, but my total garden area will be a fraction of yours (my whole lot is only 1/2 acre!) I have to get my pump set up one of these days so I can water from the creek. The previous owners did that, but the area is more crowded now, water might not be as good. The silverado sage under the window is no more. I decided that I'm tired of trimming it back several times a year--I bought a plant that was supposed to stay small and didn't. We got some good bird and bug activity out of it, but I have another one at the bottom of the front yard, so the critters can transfer over to that one. I dug up around the roots, and will have to trim the suckers regularly. There are a few more peppers and a squash out there now. And I am bushed! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 18 May 08 - 07:59 PM Oh geeze.... I forgot to take a pic of our veg garden... I envy yours, SRS... Ours is 90X35... It5 takes 20 bales of straw to mulch it all... We can or freeze enough to last us all year and eat out of it all summer and give lots to family and friends... BTW, pics on the way of some of the other gardens... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bee Date: 18 May 08 - 06:27 PM Oh, to have soil to plant a veggie garden in! I'll be making do with a few garlics and tomatos and maybe a couple squash plants along with my decorative flower beds. Gardens are spectator draws - I'm one of those who must see my friends' gardens every time I visit. Nothing is more delightful than walking through lush and fruitful gardens with the industrious owners of such, marvelling at the green and abundant end result of so much labour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 May 08 - 05:21 PM I was that kind of tired yesterday. Maybe it had something to do with deciding to move really big rocks from the far back end of the back yard to put beside the garden in the front. Or digging the bed. I'm in for a few minutes to cool down, but it's another day like that. I've never grown potatoes, but I hear they do well here. Are there any tricks to it? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: maeve Date: 18 May 08 - 03:49 PM Still a drought here in Maine. Rain is promised but hasn't materialized yet. I just finished cutting the last of something in the order of 60+ pounds of potatoes, 7 varieties, for planting. That will declutter the kitchen floor, and planting them will slip me over the edge of exhaustion, but we'll have food to eat and to sell in a few months. Peas and other cool season veggies are next. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 May 08 - 12:34 PM I was at the feed store yesterday and picked up a few things for the garden. I've put in the first of several veggie beds (very late, but at least it is getting planted this year), and I'm planning to put a soaker hose under the mulch in each of them. The mulch this year is sea hay (or whatever it is called, it's the soft stuff I use for the dogs beds). I have a new batch for the dogs, so instead of shoveling the old on the compost, I'm laying it as mulch. There is dog hair mixed in, so this could be an experiment if I had a problem with rabbits or squirrels in the garden. Driveway bed view 1 Driveway bed view 2 I find that gardening is a spectator sport for my friends and family. They like to see what is coming up, it's like easter every time they visit. So this is the charismatic bed, the stuff that is easy to see and produces regularly. Tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, and I have to put some more in. I didn't pick up everything yesterday because I wanted to see how I could space it and have walking room in the bed. It isn't very big, but any time people pull in the driveway when I have a garden out there it seems ages before they ring the bell. Look out and there are folks bent over peering into the plants. So I've put this bed front and center, my kitchen garden and entertainment center. :) Ants and aphids are attaching some shrubs out there so I need to do some work on the soil in the bed next to this garden, the Dirt Doctor's "sick tree treatment" is a good one. I started with a mix of spinosid and soap to knock out the bugs, then next to to the soil. I'm considering completely eliminating the silverado sage, it's too big there (it was supposed to be "dwarf." Ha!) Adjacent to the door for several years was a big bossy lantana, very pretty, but takes over. A hibiscus next to the air conditioner drain seeded itself so I removed both lantana and amaryllis from that bed. It should be a lovely wall of Texas Star Hibiscus this year. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 11 May 08 - 01:48 PM In searching for somewhere to buy 20% vinegar, I came across a very interesting discussion on its use as an herbicide HERE. Thought you all might find it interesting, too. The Biogreen guy never returns my calls, so I've given up on him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 May 08 - 10:16 AM More rain today, makes my gardener's heart smile! How's it looking elsewhere? Anyone still in drought? Janie? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 06 May 08 - 12:40 PM Hmmmmmmm??? I have some of thst cactur, SRS... I've had it going back at least 25 years and have taken enough to get it started the three times I've moved... I'm gonna go check it out later and maybe relocate it where I don't have to walk 350 feet to see it... BTW, for anyone who doesn't think that it has pricklies, forget it... You don't see 'um but they are there... Got one on my finger weeding between the pads and then extracted it with my teeth and ended up with thwe sumabich stuck in the roof of my mouth... Musta been in there for hours be fore I coaxed it out with a popsickle stick... I'll get some more pics today and that will give me a couple 3 rolls of film to get developed... I hate the places around here so I'll wait until I go to Harrisonburg next to have them developed... PM yer address, SRS, and I'll mail you either the pics 'er a CD... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 May 08 - 10:39 AM Finally--a couple of big sloppy rainstorms over the top of us this morning. Yesterday was a false alarm. No supplemental watering has been necessary yet this spring. I have photos of the cactus for you. Before and after. They're pretty scraggly looking now; I need to keep the grass off it and the cactus bugs, whatever they are, and I think they'll perk up. The first cactus flower is beginning to open this morning and this year we'll be able to see them! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 May 08 - 01:12 PM Bobert, I have a scanner here, that is how I would digitize your photos. Or, you can simply ask your photo processor to give you a CD with the images in addition to the prints themselves. I can make them an appropriate web size and post them either way. You get the best image when it is saved to a CD by the processor. Rain is skirting around my neighborhood so far, but I could use some today. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 05 May 08 - 12:56 PM Oh, shite! GUess I don't need any earthworm poop!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 May 08 - 12:17 PM Vinegar is a fertilizer when it is on the soil. You just gave your weeds a boost! ;-D It works by literally burning the foliage, so the stronger the acid the more it burns. After a certain percentage level, it's overkill (pardon the pun!) That's why you have to watch it when you spot spray, because it will brown or knock out whatever it hits. The warmer the weather, and bright sunshine speed the process. I sprayed the grass around my cactus one day and the next it was all brown on the ground around it. But the roots aren't dead, so I'll go back regularly and knock out the green until the roots give out. I couldn't get the tiller to start yesterday, it almost caught then gave off a huge screeching scarping noise then stopped. I do remember that it is noisy, but not this bad. We're due for rain in a few minutes so I'll wait a couple of days then ask the neighbor who gave it to me to help me start it. I need more practice (I have the starter fluid and the spark plug wrench in a logical place now, thanks to my decluttering, so when we do get together I won't have to hunt around the house and garage to find the stuff.) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 05 May 08 - 11:45 AM Can't wait to see those, Bobert! I poured some 5% apple cider vinegar on some weeds near our back door, yesterday. I just looked at them and see no difference. I didn't spray, just poured near their roots, so I don't know if it is because of that or that 5% isn't strong enough, but it didn't work. Maggie, have you noticed it working where you sprayed? Also, this is from the Naturist newsletter I get from the guy in Mexico. Though you all might find it interesting: EARTHWORMS & CUBANS Cuba's development has had to progress along a path different from what it would have been if not for the US embargo that's been in effect for decades. The embargo restricted the machinery, spare parts, technology and the like that other countries have had access to. One consequence of this is that today Cubans possess knowledge and experience with alternative technologies much needed in poorer parts of the developing world. Cuba now is the leading source of information and expertise with regard to tropical organic farming. A while back a Cuban technician passed through this area teaching how to obtain high-quality fertilizer from earthworm farms. Now that a bag of urea costs about US $40 here and people simply no longer can afford it, they're desperate for cheap fertilizers. Using earthworm poop has captured people's imaginations. I'm told that Chiapas State Government is supporting the development of earthworm farms here. Already one is in operation down the road in Pujiltik, and a committee has been formed in 28 de Junio to start one here. I've seen that worm poop is great stuff, high in nitrogen, but I wonder if enough can be generated for the big fields here. When I suggest that farmers return to mingling corn, beans, squash and amaranth greens the way their ancestors did, with nitrogen- fixing bacteria in nodules on bean roots providing the nitrogen, and traditional rotation providing food throughout the year, basically I get blank looks. I know why: The traditional approach doesn't yield much cash for the money-based economy people have decided they want to participate in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 05 May 08 - 07:27 AM Okay, Mr. Pentex (camera) and I are going to work this morning getting some pics of our favorote plants and beds... It is a old single reflex camera that only zeros in on a certain "depth of field" so it's not good for taking sweeps but I'll try... As for wild flowers, our rare "Shooting Star" has outdone anything I've ever seen outta it... The bloom stalk is close to 15 inches and it must have 20 seperate little blooms... Maybe a couple trillium will show off today... They have been threatening... All the dwarf iris's are blooming their brians out... I'll get some pics and when I do I'll mail copies to SRS and maybe she'll have some luck converting them digital??? This is my last full day of play before the P-Vine gets home from the National Azalea Society Convention which ended yesterday in Ashville, NC but I think as the "under-gardener" I have held my own keeping everyone happy in the week she has been gone... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 May 08 - 01:47 AM Funny! I spent the day clearing the grass and climbing weeds from my cactus gardens. Oh my pincushion body! I was bleeding from several places, despite the extreme care I took. Yours truly was on the radio this morning to Howard Garrett, my guru, The Dirt Doctor. I asked a couple of cactus questions. I have some bugs that bore into them and cause spots and drain liquid. I also have a problem of grass over the top of all of this pretty cactus (especially after all of last year's rain. If it had been dry this grass wouldn't have grown, because I don't water this part of the yard). He didn't know what the bugs were, so I emailed photos and I should hear from him later on this week. And I figured that since I was calling about the cactus problem they must be important enough to me that I should spend some time making them look good. They've been a mess for over a year, a few pads showing in a tangle of weeds. I'll go take a couple of Motrin before bed. It should help with the sore spots on my fingers and my aching back from the combination of standing perfectly still to avoid spines and the the bending and stooping necessary to reach the grass from all angles. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bee Date: 04 May 08 - 01:03 PM For very specific spot killing of problem weeds, I have been successful using boiling water. I have a lovely clump of phlox that had a dandelion growing in the middle of it for years. The phlox was rooted so tightly around the dandelion root that I could never get it out without ripping the phlox apart (which maybe I should have done). So one day I dug down around the dandelion root as carefully as I could, pushing the phlox roots away as best possible, and then carefully poured an entire kettle full of boiling water over and down beside the dandelion root. Result: cooked dandelion root, saved phlox. YMMV. This doesn't work on Knapweed, which has roots that go across and down to hell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 08 - 08:38 PM The stronger vinegar is hard on a lot of things. Plastic stops slipping past itself very well, and it eats up the rubber. I finished mowing the whole lawn this evening, with my dog and bird helpers. The dogs see how close in the path of the mower they can lie as I cross the yard, and the grackles come gather up the bugs I've maimed or outed. It's kind of cute, quite a lot of activity if you look. Someone just passing by on the street might only see me with the mower, not the rest of the activity. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 03 May 08 - 07:29 PM Thanks for the further info, Maggie. I'll be interested in hearing what effects it might have. Some seem to notice a pretty dramatic change just hours after spraying it. The guy who was going to sell me the 30% said to cut in half to 15%. We were going to buy some at the store but it was only 10%. Maybe I'll go get some tomorrow, regardless. I use it cut in half with water to wash mirrors. I keep it in a spray bottle and haven't had any problems with it eating away at the plastic or anything. NO rubber, though, so maybe that's why. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 08 - 07:15 PM I just now ran an experiment, I'll report back in a day or two: I took my straight 10% vinegar out and sprayed around the cactus and agave and a few other trees and shrubs to see what the reaction would be. I am theorizing that the vinegar won't hurt the cactus, but might help get some of the grass out of the bed. And I'm curious to see how tender some of the other plants are (tree bark, etc.) Whatever you use for spraying vinegar, make sure it's cheap, and wash it thoroughly after. Don't let it sit, the acid really eats up rubber and other pump parts. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 08 - 05:00 PM Regular household vinegar is a 5% acetic acid concentration. While this works on some weeds, a greater concentration is needed for other or more mature weeds. By distilling, a 15% concentration can be obtained, and a 30% concentration can be obtained by freeze evaporation. These concentrated acetic acids, if they are derived from plant sources and not from chemicals, are acceptable for agricultural use by the organic community. That is not correct down here, in that Howard Garrett, my organic guru, says the 20 or 30 percent is OVERKILL and you're wasting your money to buy those more concentrated varieties. 10% pickling vinegar is what he considers optimum for most gardener's operations. And be sure it isn't petroleum based. The research on killing weeds around corn is interesting, though, and I expect Howard will report on these things as he hears about them. www.dirtdoctor.com. Spray it on in WARM Weather. It isn't nearly so effective when it's cool out. And you will probably have to go back over it again because it burns the leaves, it doesn't kill the roots. You have to knock a plant down a couple of times to kill it. Lovely afternoon, I'm preparing to mow for a couple of hours. Both the front and the back need it. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 03 May 08 - 02:19 PM The bio-green guy who has never shown up nor returned my calls (he's too busy and can't get good help)recommended 30% vinegar diluted by half to spray on weeds, which we are getting ready to do. I found THIS interesting article and thought you all might find it of interest, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 08 - 12:53 PM I can scan them and put them up online somewhere. This bad actor has come to town, according to my morning newspaper. A devil with a beautiful face. Too bad it's so hard on crops. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 03 May 08 - 10:58 AM LOL, SRS... I bought a digital camera 10 years ago and it's still in the box... There's good news and bad news on the pinched nerve... The bad news is that it's still there... The good news is that the neurosegeon I saw says it's okay to work if I can take the pain 'cause work ain't gonna mess it up any more than it allready is... That was 2 1/2 weeks ago so I just had a little talk with myself and decided that this farnm and the P-Vine need a good 7 'er 8 hours of work outta me every day and so I have been going at it as if it didn't hurt... Even back on the Kabota, the riding mower, the shovel, etc... The only thing that I've found I can't do is weedeat... Ohter than that, it's mind over matter... If ya' don't mind it don't matter... BTW, I am in line to see a hotshot nuerologist at UVa Med Center sometime in the future to get it figurated out... Back to pics... I'll get a few with my 40 year old 35mm Pentex... I understand it... I'll bring them to the Getaway but fir folks not coming maybe I can send a few copies... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 May 08 - 10:42 AM Take photos! Post them somewhere! Sounds lovely! How's your arm/pinched nerve/back thing doing? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 03 May 08 - 07:18 AM The advantages of living so far off the road that that isn't a problem... But we love to share our stuff with fellow gardeners because that is what "gardeners" do and it is neighborly to offer something that you have an abundance of to an non-gardening neighbor but not to a neigbor that thinks of you as a landscaping company... Nuff on that.... I'll be bringing stuff to the Getaway for my Mudgardeners... BTW, this is peak week here... We've got about 100 azaleas in bloom... Salomons Seal in bloom, Lilly of the Valley in bloom... The ferns had a happy winter because they tripled in number... Of course, every tree that makes a pretty a flower is in bloom... My mom just got back from Florida and my brother is bringing her down tomorrow to take in the beauty of of P-Vine's and my labor... Gotta mow the acre or so of grass that minges and meanders thru various gardens today so all will show very nicely for her... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 02 May 08 - 11:40 PM I"d offer her a pot next time she comes by...maybe just say you can't use as many of the "mature" i.e. rooted ones, as you first thought. When we first moved in, a woman and her mother, who lived across the street from one another, brought us cookies and offered us as many day lilies as I wanted the next fall. I never was able to go get them, then and would feel kind of funny asking for the six years later. There's no chance of anyone taking anything from our front yard as we have a picket fence all the way round. There's not that much out there anyway.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 May 08 - 09:56 PM The topic for the evening: the etiquette of asking for/sharing plants. I have quite a few neighbors who walk every evening, and a couple of weeks ago a woman asked for some iris starts. I had a box of them that I'd never got around to planting and gave her some. This evening she and her husband were out walking with their son and he asked about some cactus starts. I have a couple I need to do a lot of work on, the grass is completely into them and I knock stuff off every time I mow. So I got the tongs and picked up one and broke a limb off another (I'm going to have to dig it up--no doubt it would break anyway. I realized as he talked he was gesturing at some that I dropped in pots last year, and he really would have preferred to have the rooted ones. I realize now that for this Mexican family, the cactus are a lot more highly prized, and she had seen those pots when we got the iris. I'm guessing that he was hoping I'd give him a pot (I do sell them occasionally at garage sales, but I don't usually give them away because I have to replace the pot). Anyway, I'm going to plant the potted ones when I do this new arrangement, but if I'd been thinking I probably could have just given him one. Most people don't make so much use of things growing in their yards, but cactus are highly prized around here and some neighbors up the street have parties when family come and cut pads off of a huge prickly pear in their yard. Now I feel like I was being a little stingy when I have tons of the stuff out there. When I see her out walking again, I'm tempted to ask if she wants one of those, just because I feel like I wasn't paying attention and they're going to have to root those pads before they get much growth. When there is surplus, how do some of you handle it? And have you had any poaching in your gardens? i.e., I don't care if people break off a few twigs of rosemary on the plant down at the street, but I hope they aren't digging up other stuff. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 May 08 - 12:46 PM I'm taking tomorrow off and part of it will be spent working on the gardens. Whooo hooo! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:30 PM I thought that was very pretty also. For as clever as Martha's folks are, there were a couple of really dopey ideas in there. I don't think I'll be making a trivet out of wine corks and a hose clamp. And some of those things with scrap paper and carpet and rings and . . . geez, just grab the back side of an envelope or a piece of paper on the counter and f*ckin' write on it. Why jump through all of those hoops trying to add value where there is none to be gained? ;-D SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 28 Apr 08 - 03:37 PM Neat link, Maggie, thanks. I do have a bunch of old glass jars from my dad's cousin; some of them are from coffee in the 1940s and very kewl shapes. I found bugs got into them when I used them for dried foods, though. I guess the seals weren't tight enough. I also have some ancient bottles form my mom's old collection. I like the idea of putting them in a tray like in that one picture. Now, if I can find them and find room for them! Anyone want to come to CO for a "barn" raising?**bg** |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Apr 08 - 03:13 PM A friend of mine out in West Texas bought a chipper at auction and then did some welding and sanding and painted it and it looks good as new. It was sold as surplus by the county, and was quite large. Too bad he's an 8 hour drive away--the round trip time and gas-wise wouldn't make sense to ask to borrow that one. Many of the nails pulled out, many will come out easily from rotten boards. I have a bored 16-year-old, and this wouldn't be thrilling, but maybe I could give him this job. I figure if I'm going to rent a chipper then I should have enough to make it worth the trouble. I can bounce the idea off of several neighbors--if 3 or 4 of us work together we can clear up several of our outstanding piles of limbs in a day. And $10 or $15 each into the pot will help my pocketbook. Off to do some research. . . Thanks, Bobert! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 28 Apr 08 - 01:23 PM Those chippers have actual bladed in them in that big drum looking thingie next to the engine and blades and nails don't mix... Unless you rent a big chipper with a 4 cylunder engine ($100-$150 a day) yer probably going to get a 1 cylinder at the rental center and it will olny chip limbs up to 2" and chip them very slowly... Like 3-4 minutes chipping a 3 foot long 2" round branch... But if yer gonna get the 4 cylinder chipper it will chip up stuff up to about 3 inches quite nicely and you don't have to push the limbs into it... Once it grabs 'um they are gone... Also with thei chipper, if you can use a circular or chain or nailpuller and get the nails out then Mr. Chipper will eat the rest of the fencing and ask for more... Those are my thoughts... BTW, if you are looking at renting a 1 cly. chipper sgredder it gonna probably cost you about $50 for the day... If you have one of those magizines that has used stuff in it that is usually sold at the convience stores then you might find one in there used for not much more and then you could chip at your liesure... We bought one for $200 that works great... As for my limbs and stuff, I have a couple big fires every year but then again I've got 17 acres to keep up, 5 of which are wooded where are gardens are... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM Hey, Kat, I checked out one of the many emails that I get via Martha Stewart, but found an interesting tip in her Earth Day one. See if this works and go through the photos. In this one I've linked to you'll see all glass food storage containers from IKEA. Aha! I think there is an IKEA in Dallas, Moonglow heads there with friends every so often. I can probably get much of the same stuff at the Container Store a couple of miles away without the long drive (the price of the gas will compensate for the Container Store price, I wager). SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Apr 08 - 01:04 PM Bobert, Can I chip up old fence slats with a rental chipper, and will the nails make a difference? Do those chippers cut or grind? I have a bunch of limbs I need to take down, and I moved a lot of old fencing (I was risking a big vet bill--one of the dogs stepped on a nail yesterday, but seems okay now, but the time was coming when one of them would do more serious damage to themselves). I'd like to make local chips, with my tree branches and this fencing. As far as I can tell, the previous owners spared every expense by using the cheapest un-chemically-treated wood panels for the fence, so I don't think I'd be introducing any creosote or other wood preservatives to my gardening. Any thoughts? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Apr 08 - 02:22 PM I have a bunch of gallon plastic bottles of water from my emergency cache that need to be used up. Despite the fact that they're in plastic, in an emergency it is water so I need to keep some around. I'll set these aside and get new ones. But the old bottles aren't going to be drunk. I took a jug, poured off a little, and added some of my Garrett Juice (a compost tea mix that you can make yourself or is bottled and sold at local nurseries) and some Hasta Grow (a marginal, not quite organic liquid fertilizer that Garrett tolerates because it is so much better than the blue stuff). Marked it with a Sharpie pen so no one mistakes it as a jug of iced tea and I'm set for my potted and house plants. ;) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:29 PM I spied three more cannas in the bed I thought I emptied of them. Pesky plants, those are! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:23 AM "I'm not sure how much I am actually going to dig and take with me." Well, Janie... I hate to tell ya' this but once you have dug the potted up the first one you'll realize that ththey ***all*** are going with you 'cept the ones too big to pot up... Ask me how I know... You remember our move from Wes Ginny, I'm sure... We didn't realize how many pots we moved or how many trips we made until the following spring when we started the process of pulloing the pots outta the woods where were store them over winter surrounded by bales of sttraw and covered in leaves but... ...the final count was 550!!! If anyone would have told us that we'd have to move 550 plants we's still be back in Wes Ginny... So don't read this thread, Janie, or if you have allready. fotget what I have said here... BTW, have you found a landscaping company that is delighted to have you cart off as many plastic pots as you want??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:07 PM I finally got started 'disarranging' this evening. Heavy rain on two week-ends, my son's lacrosse games, a necessary trip home to WV and private practice clients evenings and weekends had delayed me. My gardening philosophy has always been "take care of the soil, and the soil will take care of the plants." I won't tell the story from 8 or 10 years ago of turning my front yard into an enormous cottage-style flower bed divided by only 3 grass paths, except to say I started with hardpan and fill dirt, and hauled in good dirt and compost, one pick-up truck and wheelbarrow at a time, and I did it entirely by myself. I thought about that, and the years of tending the soil and the worms as I dug plants out of the rich, deep loam this evening. Even though I will be gone from here, and the garden probably mowed down, green things and creepy crawlies will still survive, and perhaps thrive. Mother nature has been given a little bit of a hand-up in restoring this little piece of earth. I'm not sure how much I am actually going to dig and take with me. I'm also thinking it is likely it will be at least mid-July before I find another place and am ready to move, so I am going to leave the peonies, irises and daylilies alone until I am ready to move. Peonies start going dormant here by mid-July, and the iris and daylilies don't much care when they are dug up. Tonight I focused on hydrangeas, species tulips, and some of the new hybrid echineceas I planted two seasons ago. The first big, bright red poppie shed it's cap today and will fully open tommorrow! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 25 Apr 08 - 07:12 PM I bought a set of pyrex covered dishes at KMart a while back, really pretty, clear glass tinted green with darker green lids, and told Rog to start using them. He cooks; I wash dishes. He loves using tupperware-like crap; I hate it. So...any ammo I can add to my argument for using glass is good!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 08 - 06:45 PM I heard there are a few more, at least four total, but maybe four more in addition to what I saw. I'll check into it later. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 08 - 12:18 PM I told my son we're going to switch to pop in cans in cardboard cases, where everything is recyclable in that form. I tossed a lot of the restaurant take-out containers in the recycle bin, and pulled my Pyrex bowls with fitted lids from the back of the cupboard. I'll revert back to my mother's practice when I was a child (before Tupperware and so many other plastic products) and put leftovers in those. Good point about Christo. I took a look at the PBS DVDs for sale, and it looks like there are only two in that National Geographic series. I sincerely hope they plan to make more of them. It is an excellent format and an effective delivery vehicle. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:58 AM I remember Christo, pdq. We thought it was the height of ridiculous when he hung an orange plastic curtain up by Rifle, here in Colorado. I see Mother Nature must not have liked it, either. It says on that site that 100 mph winds made it necessary to take the damn curtain down! Maggie, thanks for the link. I am going to have to invest in a water filter and give up bottled water. I knew the day was coming; nmo time like the present. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: pdq Date: 25 Apr 08 - 11:48 AM Speaking about plastic and waste, does anybody remember Christo? He is sometimes called an Envitomental Artist, best know for wrapping things in copious quantities of plastic. I have seen pictures of the aftermath, and he simply let the stuff blow away. Once he wrapped a small island and the wrapping material eventually ripped to pieces and went into the ocean. Christo: art or pollution? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 08 - 10:02 AM Tornadoes disarranged a few gardens here a couple of days ago, the weather service reports. How is your garden disarrangement coming along, Janie? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Apr 08 - 03:37 PM Did any of you see the National Geographic's Strange Days on Planet Earth opening episodes last night on PBS? Does any of you want to ever take a drink of anything out of a plastic container again? Ever accept another plastic grocery bag? I've been taking my own bags to the stores off and on for years, and have recently gotten back into the habit because it is difficult to recycle that plastic, but to watch this program about everything from faded coral off of the Yucatan to the Pacific trash Gyre and other linkages around the planet was amazing. It comes down to plastic, on many levels. The thing about this program that I like is that they are tapping into popular culture much more than previous scientific-based programs. They're picking up the stylistic format of the popular detective programs all over television now, and they're giving a broad enough answer to make the answer applicable to any viewer. This is more of the charisma of the Jacques Cousteau programs of decades ago. This is what I've been waiting to see. I had completed all of the course work on a masters in Environmental Ethics except to write the thesis when a health problem caused me to stop my work for a while. I never went back. But I'd been asking myself for many months before the health problem "where is this going to lead?" I was mastering some important critical thinking skills, but I was doing it in an academic vacuum where academics talk to other academics, but rarely get outside that closed domain. A friend who is a scientist for the National Park Service burst that bubble for a lot of that year's students by addressing this very topic--what are you going to do to make a difference? Writing scholarly papers ISN'T the answer. So while I never went back, I have had my eye open for the kinds of programs and opportunities that make a difference. I tend to dismiss Earth Day is an annual event for people who aren't already doing these things every day. It does allow those who want people to change to try to get the word out, but for all of the hype, people do as they want, not as we say they should. What is it going to take to get them to plant their own gardens, to use the organic techniques we've been discussing here, to cut back on so many destructive little practices that lead up to big problems? How about a lot of information and a good old-fashioned horror story. Scare people away from the plastic, eyes wide open. That's what this program can do, whatever it's topic. I saw an interview online with Edward Norton. He was on the Today Show on Tuesday and an acquaintance (in Greece--long story!) who is a fan of his asked if I could tape it for her. I knew he had good environmental credentials in his own right, but I was quite impressed at his roots--it's a family thing, to be taken very seriously. He is a good choice for the host of this National Geographic program on many levels. He'll bring in his younger and not as young fans, and he'll convince the more serious science-oriented viewers. The best of both worlds. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Apr 08 - 12:26 AM Oops, I missed my chance this evening, except that anything spread around this afternoon would be down the creek by now. These heavy storms are above and beyond what you probably consider a "decent rain." My informal rain gauge (dog food dishes on the back patio) show between 3 and 4 inches. This can be considered pretty reliable, because the dogs haven't had time to come out of their cosy dry den in the garage and lap up the evidence yet. . . SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:41 PM Wait unti just before yer 'sposed to get a decent rain, SRS... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:48 AM No, it won't hurt the dogs, but I what I meant is, they'll go around trying to lick it all up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 22 Apr 08 - 08:46 AM Ths corn gluten won't hurt yer dog, SRS... And it is organic and environmental friendly... Grubs don't think so but it's either grubs, moles and voles or corn gluten a couple times a year... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 Apr 08 - 12:47 AM Mine eat June bugs also. When I police the grounds out back I find the wings sticking out of the dried stool. Ewwww is right. I had to chase them away from a floundering baby bird yesterday. What could have been a fuzzy snack (a fledged but not flight-worthy sparrow practicing it's take-off) was launched into the next door neighbor's back yard where it could continue the strident peep for Mom to feed it, but without the danger of a curious frisky dog. One of the reasons I do the organic gardening is because I think I see a lot more wildlife with the healthy environment. I did see a lot more before I had dogs in the yard, I will admit. I mentioned this to a friend out at a local nature center, and he said that at least the damage is contained by my fences, it isn't like I'm spraying lawn and bug chemicals far and wide and wiping out a lot of stuff. Just a few birds and slow squirrels. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bee Date: 22 Apr 08 - 12:26 AM My old dog used to get evening snack type cravings for June Bugs. She'd watch them through the screen door for a while as she lazed around on the rug, then suddenly get up and want out. Ten minutes of leaping and crunching later, she'd be satisfied and come in - then wonder why i didn't want to be licked....eee-eww! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Apr 08 - 10:13 PM I have to be careful about putting anything down in the yard where the dogs are. Those dopes will taste anything and eat an awful lot of stuff that you don't want to even think about. Tonight I mowed the back yard and the pit bull started stalking the grackles that come feed a row or two over from the mower. She realized they were catching HER bugs. (Both dogs adore katydids, and the pit will watch the catahoula and if it looks like she caught one in a pounce will run and take it away from her.) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 21 Apr 08 - 05:10 PM The grub is something that the mole loves... Corn gluten can be put down on lawns to control the grubs (kinda) to keep the moles from tearing up your lawns and allowing the voles assess to the beds around your house... Voles are the enemy... Grrrrrrrr... I hate 'um and always praise the kitties when they bring 'um home... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bee Date: 21 Apr 08 - 12:49 PM Thanks for the tips, 'catters. I think Janie might have the answer. I'd assumed the few hollowed out roots were anomalies of dehydration, but I'll bet iris borers are the culprit. Pdq, thanks for defending the moles: I knew they were insectivores for the most part, but wondered if they might chew roots to get them out of their way when tunneling. I really try to strike a balance with the wildlife, including the insects. If a plant is getting eaten by insects, I usually don't replant that species for a couple years. If it's aphids, I wash 'em off. Grubs get thrown to the birds if I find them, and I'm happy when there's a skunk around to eat them - less happy when the occasional bear comes through and literally rolls up the lawn to get grubs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: pdq Date: 21 Apr 08 - 10:52 AM BACTERIAL SOFT ROT Unlike pink rot and leak, soft rot is caused be the bacteria Erwinia carotovora that also causes blackleg during the growing season. The soft rot bacteria can be carried on seed pieces, borne in soil, borne in water, carried on insect bodies and equipment. Weeds in the field especially those related to potatoes such as nightshades and buffalo bur can harbor the bacteria. Planting infected seed increases the potential of harvesting infected tubers. Soft rot usually enters through swollen, water-logged lenticels (pores) on tubers. Infected vines release bacteria to the soil and the bacteria can move to new tubers through soil water. Soft rot, however, can also enter tubers through the stem end and wounds. Control Practices: In storage, soft rot only spreads easily but must enter through wounds either caused mechanically or by fungi such as leak and pink rot. Wet tubers having free water on the surface are very prone to soft rot infection. Chlorinated water will help avoid the spread of soft rot but will not affect bacteria that have already entered tubers. There is little data to support the effectiveness of applying germicides through ventilation or humidifying systems. Infection is highest shortly after harvest and declines during storage. The bacteria can survive in debris in storage bins from season to season. Metalaxyl will not affect Erwinia carotovora. Tips to Prevent Soft Rot * Do not plant infected seed. * Control weeds esp. nightshades and buffalo bur. * Avoid harvesting under wet conditions. * Harvest mature tubers with set skin. * Harvest when air and soil temperature is below 70oF. * Harvest when pulp temperature is below 50oF. * Avoid bruising. * Dry tubers quickly. * Remove vines, clods and soil adhered to tubers before piling. * Avoid leak and pink rot. * Sanitize storage facility. * Eliminate condensation during storage. * Keep well ventilated in storage. * Cure tubers for 2-3 weeks at 50-55oF with good air flow. * Do not wash tubers before storing. * Dry tubers quickly. * Monitor storage piles for wet spots. * If using flume system, use chlorinated water replacing it often. * Do not let tubers submerge more than 1-2 inches in flumes. * Dry tubers thoroughly before packing. * Pack tubers in ventilated bags, having air holes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Apr 08 - 10:46 AM I have a box of iris that I dug up last fall, and I pulled out most of the big roots (rhizomes) and the box sat in a corner all winter. I look in it now and there are small roots putting out little green shoots after total neglect, freezing weather, and no soil. When they finally build that space station on the moon they're probably going to plant irises around the front door. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 21 Apr 08 - 10:31 AM Thanks, everyone. Now I just have to talk my brother or Rog into digging them up for me!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: maeve Date: 21 Apr 08 - 09:13 AM Thanks, Bobert. I'll try the cuttings I have, and then make some more cuts when the semi-hard growth is available. I do have the Rootone already, as well as Dip N Grow liquid concentrate. I want to try blueberry cuttings from our various high bush varieties and one of the native hardy azaleas (if I can get hold of some cuttings from friends in NH). Does anyone here have plantings of more than one cucumber magnolias? I'm in need of fertile seed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 21 Apr 08 - 09:10 AM One problem with baggies is lack of ventilation. After reading about it in a book or magazine a few years ago, I started using plastic 1 liter bottles (saved from buying bottles of water or soda.) Cut the bottom out and the bottle fits quite nicely just inside the perimeter of a 6" pot. The open neck allows for sufficient ventilation while keeping the humidity high, and doesn't collapse against the stem or leaves, knocking the cutting over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 21 Apr 08 - 08:38 AM Both will do fine, maeve, but wait until later in the season and take cuttings from "new growth" (semi hard wood) which is easier to root... "Root Tone" is a great product, comes in a powder form and so when you take your cuttings just dip the bottom in the root tone... I would use a medium that has some pearlite in it and a miz of potting soil and whatever soil they are growing in now... Put them in baggies with twist ties at the top with some but not soaking mointure... The baggies will act as a greenhouse and if you have a grow light or florescent bulb and an area that doesn't freeze that will do juts fine... If not, put them up next to your house on the north side of the house after the last frost... Once they have rooted then they can take more sun... As for irises, we move and divide then any time we feel like it... They are very tough to hurt or kill... Kinda like alot of day lillies... BTW, anyone using "hychonecloa" (high-conna-clo-ah) (sp?) grasses??? Great little grass for bordering beds that is out there... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: maeve Date: 21 Apr 08 - 07:28 AM I'll be transplanting some Imortality iris this week, along with an un-named yellow dwarf bearded iris. We missed out on thinning last year, and so will take out half of what's crowded together now, potting the extras for sale later in the season, and will dig and re-space the rest of them after the first bloom. Bobert or anyone else, I want to stick some cuttings of a friend's vibernum and some Annabelle hydrangeas. Should I use a sand-based mix? Rooting hormone in powdered or liquid formula? Thanks for any helpful suggestions. maeve in Maine |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:56 AM Iris go through a period of dormancy in mid summer after they have bloomed and gone to seed, and that is supposedly the best time to transplant. For myself, I transplant whenever I need to and have the time, and they seem to do fine - but if you can wait until after bloom, that is probably a bit better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 21 Apr 08 - 12:57 AM Is this the wrong time of year to transplant iris? I have some that keep coming up on the edge of the dry, hard-packed dirt and some gravel driveway that I would really like to move. They are a pale, smaller iris than I have known before. There is another clump of them at the other end of the front year, under a large tree where they get more ambient water. I'd like to move the driveway ones just inside the fence in a dry patch near another tree. Keep in mind this is high desert. No chance of any kind of rot, dampness, etc. My sweetpea that I planted last year is coming back in full force, and I just noticed my clematis is sending up tendrils. I wasn't sure it would make it this year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 20 Apr 08 - 11:22 PM Bee, Consider the possibility of Iris borers - a moth whose larva tunnel down iris leaves, feed on the roots (hollowing them out, mostly) and either spread or make iris roots vulnerable to bacterial rot. I don't know if they occur as far north as you are (Nova Scotia?) but they are wide spread and occur in New England. I have had problems with them in the past, and the problems are recurring this year because I neglected to clean up the iris leaves when they browned and fell over in the late fall, or at least by late winter. The moths lay eggs in garden debris, including brown and drooping iris leaves, in late summer and fall. If you scrupulously remove dead iris leaves in late fall or very early spring (I have to do it both late fall and early spring in my mild climate)and keep other fallen or dead plant debris away from the irises, you can control them pretty easily. They make their way to the growing plant from the still attached dead leaves, or from fallen tree leaves or other dead plant debris lying up against the irises. If you are finding not only mushy, rotted rhizomes, but are noting those not completely mush are hollowed out, the most likely culprit is iris borers. Cut away all hollowed or rotted rhizome, dust the roots with sulpher to treat the fungus spread by the borers, let them dry out just a bit in a shady place for a day or two and replant. Even a very small piece of rhizome with a little bit of root will regenerate, though it may take a couple of years before you have blooms again. You may or may not see the catarpillers, but if you see little chewed corners on green iris leaves, or little holes or brown spots on the green leaves, with dark green, sappy-looking streaks running down the leaves, it is probably borers. Once you have them, it is essential to clean up the iris beds very thoroughly every fall and/or early spring to avoid future problems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:07 PM pdq, Ummmmmm, as a major gardener, you are techically correct... The moles have no use for the plant material... But here is the rub... Where you have moles, who do the tunneling, you will also have voles... The voles use the moles tunnels, breed in them and the voles do attack the root systems of plants... Their favorite food is hosta roots... One vole can kill a hosta in a matter of a couple days... They also attack yer potaotes and beets in yer veggie garden as well as the roots of many ornimental plants... We have taken to not only using Permitil but planting out hostas in planters with wire mesh in the bottom to cover the hole which the varments will tunnel thru and kill a hosta in a planter... I've never known any varment that has any interest in irisesm howeverm so I suspect that what SRS has come up with id most likely the cause of death... You have to abuse yer irises, Bee, if you want them to thrive... You know... Plant 'um in concrete... lol... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: pdq Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM Your moles are eating small animals such as insects, earth worms and occasionally crustaceans. They have very small mouths that are evolved for they food the use and they have no interest in eating plant material. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:17 PM I've seen a few iris roots like that, I don't remember what the circumstances were, though I'm guessing they were really crowded together when it happened. Have you thinned your irises every couple of years? I just now ran a scientific search via Google (typed in "iris root rot") and got a hit: anoxic soil could be a problem. Does this sound useful? The discussion seems to be one about gardening for hummingbirds in the Southeast. Another hit says manure on irises can lead to root rot, and here is an abstract from a paper that I would have to join the ScienceDirect folks to read, but maybe this is enough to make your eyes glaze over:
SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bee Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:02 PM Bobert and SRS, the iris deaths is a mystery. They are in a well drained area, winter wasn't that bad this year or last. There doesn't seem to be any associated bugs or holes, and it doesn't even look like a fungus. The nice, fat roots just go to mush, like a bad sweet potato. Could a mole eat/tear away the little 'feeder' roots and kill them that way? We just started seeing (starnosed) mole holes a couple years ago, so I'm not familiar with any damage they might cause. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:41 AM Reminds me of an iris bed that I dug out a few years ago back in Wes Ginny... I took the whole bunch of them and just threw 'um accross the road into the woods... No planting... They just lais there on op opf the leaves... Well, you know the restr of the story... Yup, they rooted themselves and if you were to go back there today there's about a 10 foot round patch of very healthy irisis... As for the worms in the cannas I'm not too sure what will kill them but it's the larve I suspect developes during your winters... We did ours up and store them in peat moss inside the barn where the larve doesn't have an environment to live... But I'll ask the P-Vine if she has anything that is organic that will kill the worms... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:59 AM Iris is so tolerant of abuse it must have been an exceptional winter to kill them. Or some creature that really nails them. I dug a bed today for a new home for some cannas by my front porch. I'll do the transplanting tomorrow and they'll now live at the side of the house and will benefit from my foundation soaker hose. These always end up kind of tattered looking with worms that wrap up the leaves and other things that eat holes across the veins. I haven't cared enough for them to try to do anything about them, but with this trouble of transplanting, I'll give them a little more TLC. Any suggestions to keep leaf rollers and other diners out of the cannas? Is this the place to try the self-rising flour (or diatomaceous earth)? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:24 PM Tough to kill iris... Maybe too wet??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bee Date: 19 Apr 08 - 02:41 PM O frabjous day! last night the Spring Peepers sang for the first time. We've had two mild days in a row, and today, a lovely warm sun means I can at last join in the garden thread, yay! I've been cleaning up winter debris and weeding out the inevitable grass and wild asters and discovering what didn't make it through the winter. Last year a kind of wet rot destroyed my favourite irises, and this year I see other irises have been affected, but not outright killed yet. I've no idea what caused it - the roots just turn to mush, as if frozen and thawed, which is an unlikely cause, as they've survived a good ten years of the same climate and similar protection. Other than that, though, I have tulips, daylilies, phlox, creeping phlox, forget me not, columbine, delphinium, hostas, sweet william, Pulmonaria (blooming!), peony, rhubarb, evening Lychnis, foxglove, mallow, two kinds of perennial geranium, oregano, chives, johnny jumpups, lily of the valley, bleeding heart and poppies all sprouting up all fresh and green. I notice one old area of creeping phlox has become sprawling and sparse, and needs to be cut to the roots, and I've yet to see any rudbeckia seedlings popping up, so there may be a few spots in the soil to fill up with new plants. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:10 AM I'm impressed... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Apr 08 - 09:27 PM I know people sometimes fuss about picking up unwanted pests via public compost and mulch, but I found a good hot stack of compost over at the recycle center this afternoon. It isn't finished if its still cooking, but I piled it on the garden and will let it cook some more and I'll till it in soon. I need some organic material in this soil, and although there has only been grass growing here for ages so it probably isn't depleted of anything, it was a building site at one time so it probably lost some of the original good top soil that was here. This is going in with the amendments. It will be a veggie garden this year, after all. It's small, and right outside the back door, so I'll put in the kinds of things that I have been known to step out to the garden to pick while I'm cooking. I called into a radio talk show at noon today, a program where anyone can call in with any question and other listeners call in with the answer. A guy called and wanted to know why his morning grapefruit didn't always have the same number of sections, and why sometimes it has odd numbers and sometimes even. I pulled out my taxonomy of flowering plants and called in and told him how many petals on the citrus flower, but that it doesn't indicate the number of segments in the fruit, that this has to do with the effectiveness of the pollinator. And that the flower stops letting pollinators in after it reaches a certain level of viable seeds that will grow in it. No one else called in to add to my answer, or argue against it, so I must have been pretty close with my guess. :) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:09 PM No, no, Donuel... It's not pine needles... Its finely (fines) ground up pine bark... It is a wonderful soil ammendment... Comes in bags like mulch... Here's the mix: 1/2 clay and whatever top soil comes outta the hole 3/8 Pione fines 1/8 Permatil BTW, here's somethin' you might not know... Clay has alot of nutients in it that just neeed to be unlocked... The Permitil does just that... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Donuel Date: 18 Apr 08 - 02:23 PM Pine fines... sounds like pine needles. If so it makes good sense since it is thought tht the first soil on earth was made from the first trees which were a bit like pine trees today but more fern like in the branches. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:17 PM There is a product called Permitil, Donuel, that works well with clay... The gypsum is fine if you want to till up a garden plot but put till some straw into it as well... But as for shrubs, Permitil, "Pine Fines" and clay will grow just about anything that grows well where you live... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Donuel Date: 18 Apr 08 - 11:32 AM With mostly clay soil here ... Is it good or bad to add gypsum ?????????????????????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Apr 08 - 11:16 AM Gorgeous! I'm a long way from the yard I visualise here, so its nice to see places like this that give goals to strive for. Have you heard more from your weed removal guy, Kat? We had really heavy rains here, in fact, my dog walk last evening was interrupted by the tornado sirens. We were about a block from the house, I could see heavy clouds to the northwest and knew I probably had time to finish a shortened route loop we do through the area fields, but decided to be prudent and turn around. The local weather folks had a lot of colorful weather maps on screen for much of the evening. This morning the dog dishes were full, and a bucket on the other side of the house has about an inch and a half. If I average between these two informal rain gauges, I'd guess we received upwards of 2.5" of mostly rain (and a little hail). SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 18 Apr 08 - 01:38 AM WyoWoman is editor of the Herb Companion. Here is what I'd like my front yard to look like...it's in her magazine this month and the house itself is in Austin Texas: clickety. Sooooo pretty! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:23 AM Last year there were flowers to the left in this bed and tomatoes to the right. The Swiss Chard has grown here for a couple of years. It was pretty scrawny last year but this spring it came back like gangbusters. I had some for dinner tonight and have some in the fridge to add to some soup tomorrow. I cut a few leaves at a time and let the root stock keep producing. I get the impression people sometimes pull up the real tender plants, like spinach, but that seems a waste of time. These plants are so hardy, I've had chard produce for several years and when we've had mild winters I've put it on the table year round. This is my front yard, by the way. The soil that is easiest to work is out there, probably because the builders put better top soil in the front yard and just plow the dirt flat (rebar and nails and all in it) in the back. Since the front yard is easier to work in and I'm an opportunist, I have a mix of flowers and veggies. I usually have some peppers and tomatoes mixed in the beds. I might poke something in the iris bed this year. The iris won't care if they're the understory for a while. It's amazing how many people walk past every day and never notice what is growing out there. I have a neighbor who grows her cantaloupe in her front yard. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:06 PM Lets see??? Right now we have peas, beets, spinach and lettuce planted which will be our spring crops... We'll plant them again the last week of August and with any luck be eating 'um fresh up 'til the 1st of Novemebwr... We've also got two rows of tators and we've harvested a little asparagus... Yummy... Next to go in will be all the hot summer plants: yellow squash, zuchinni, half a dozen different peppers, tomatoes, yummy lima bean and roma beans... Oh yeah, those little cuckes that are ready when they get about 5 inches long... We can tomatoes and beets... We freeze peppers and beans in vacuum packs whih, BTW, are reusable... 'Bout it for now... No rain so I've got the oscillator on the spring stuff... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Apr 08 - 04:17 PM We're due for rain tonight, an 80% chance, then nice weather tomorrow. Looks like this weekend is going to be a good one for digging and tilling. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:51 PM Choices. With the world food crop on the precipice, I can't make a dent in the rice or wheat problem. I guess I'll aim at crops easy to preserve or can. I should grow the stuff that is expensive in the store and buy the stuff that is cheap in the store, right? So I'll grow some eggplant (I love it!) and maybe not grow too many squash. Tomatoes--well, they may not cost so much in the store but store-bought tomatoes in the summertime are an abomination. What are some of you growing this year, and how will you preserve the extra? (I'm shifting my attention back to the gardening thread, Bobert, to wipe the sh*t off of my shoes from that other thread. There are a lot of black pots being slung around over there, and a more than adequate demonstration of what happens when you carry a lighted match too close to a couple of sticks of dynamite.) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 15 Apr 08 - 10:18 PM Wow, SRS... We just grow the same ol' Celebrity 'cause they taste great, look great and can great... Okay, we grow them Italian tomatos, one cherry which come up from last years garden and a Mr. Stripie... Keep us posted... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Apr 08 - 10:10 PM We were at the high-dollar grocery store this evening and I spotted some really interesting heirloom tomatoes. Some from Mexico, some from Canada. So instead of picking the ones that might have a chance in this climate, I picked up one of the Canadian tomatoes. I'm going to save some seeds and try growing a few. Assuming I like the taste. It smells good. Any one else ever get their seeds that way? I have some Israel melon to plant this year I picked up last year in the spring and saved for now. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:31 AM I've figured out where the agave is going to go. I have to transplant two rosemary bushes and the agave is going where one of them stood. I have a lot of transplanting to do, actually, and it needs to be finished this month. It should have been done in the fall, but I was fussing about the roof and the roofers were going to step on or lay plywood on top of anything I transplanted, so I didn't bother then. I'm still finding nails, chunks of shingle, and those little plastic disks from the felt nails around the yard. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Apr 08 - 09:18 PM I must confess. I slipped over to the dark side for a while this afternoon. The poison ivy is coming up and the leaves are tender right now, so I got the container of weed killer (left over from several years ago, but most likely as toxic as ever) and spritzed it. Poison ivy and I do not get along. It kills me to get even a small spot. This is the result of a really bad rash a few years ago, and now I'm very sensitive to it. My man Howard says you have to dig it up, and even toxic sprays may not help, but I'll (pardon the pun) give it a shot. The rest of the day was suitably organic. I dug and sifted my compost pile from last year and lugged a couple of wheelbarrows full to the new bed at the side of the house. Green sand, lava sand, and compost are in place and tomorrow I'll crank up the old tiller and work it in deep. Bobert, I took a look at the tag for the ground when I was at Home Depot. They call it something else, and it is grown in a nursery in California. I didn't write it down (I should have five-fingered the tag, but I was in a hurry and didn't think about it.) I'll report more later. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 08 - 11:59 AM It gets lots of light, Janie, because it is out ibn the open but it does face north... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:43 PM How much light does the berm get, Bobert, and in what direction does it face? With the pond behind it, does it stay pretty moist? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Apr 08 - 10:50 PM I'll have to find out how hardy it is as far as your zone. You can buy it in various sized containers, but for an area like that, get the little 1" plugs and space them in a grid something like 6" to 12" and they'll be a full bed like that in a couple of years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 12 Apr 08 - 09:55 PM Wow.... Yeah, that would work reallty well if it is hardy.... It's like a blanket and that is what we need... How fast does it spread, SRS??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Apr 08 - 09:33 PM Here in Texas it is a low (8-12") thatch of a ground cover. People can plant it in the shade or sun, and usually take the weedeater to the edge to keep it from creeping into the lawn. It's in the foreground and around the crape myrtle in this photo. It doesn't have any flowers that I know of. Well, you know how that goes--it probably does, but nothing that is ever conspicuous. How big do you want your ground cover? Rosemary is quite a hedge around here, and it does a fine job of covering the ground. Or something little, like oregano. That is a pretty ground cover here also. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 12 Apr 08 - 08:53 PM Back when I was growin' up we mounted the basket ball board, hoop and net on a telephone pole which was right up against the street we lived on... Weren't nobody interested in doing no "dunkin" back then unless, of course, you were prepared for a few nights in the hosptal from runnin' smack into the pole... BTW, no, yer basket ball apparates prolly won't grow any legs tonight... Even a "FREE" sign won't gro it no legs... They make these hoops that you can rollinto yer danged garage... But nevermind B-ball... This is an official gardenin' thread... Ahhhhh, that Asian jasmine hardy to 0 degrees??? We have Carolina jasmine and it it.... I like the heck outta jasmine... "I been thinkin' of Jasmine Jasmine thinkin' about me... Nevermind, little trip thru the past... I don't know this plant, SRS... Does it have yellow flowers??? Is it invasive??? if so, how invasive... I can live with some invasive plants... Others??? Nope... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Apr 08 - 08:23 PM Bobert, I dug out the basketball pole (the hoop came off easily first). It was the kind of adventure that you usually talk about, and is a story that should be told with a West Virginie twang. Because I had to figure out how BIG to dig the open pit to remove that ingot of concrete, but then I had to backfill under it and move it around to tamp it down so I could get the darned thing level with the driveway and out of the hole and rolled down to the street. I'll be real curious to see if this thing disappears overnight. Now I have a wonderfully well worked spot for planting. I have an agave to move over here, and I'm going to make this a fairly dry bed, except against the house where the soaker hose keeps the foundation moist. That's where the Texas Star hibiscus will remain (I took a lantana out, but I might put one in this new area again. They are as hearty as anything I could plant here. That or a Salvia greggi.) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Apr 08 - 12:47 PM Evergreen low-growing Asian jasmine seems to out-compete weeds around here. But in reading about historic lawns and how mono-cultures of grass didn't come around until weed-killers were invented and they needed some way to market them, I would put some clover out and let it compete with the weeds, and maybe take over. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:21 AM Here is a question for all my gardening buds here... I have a relatively steep berm that in essence is a dam as my pond is on one side and the driveway the other... On the driveway side weeds have had their way and it takes about 3 hours to weed eat it so... I'd like to put something in in the way of a groundcover that will beaou out the weeds and be as maintainenece free as possible... I have given some thought to low juniper but it get some kinda bug??? Vetch is out... Kidzo is out...Vinca would bee to costly... Any other ideas??? BTW... Our woods are filled with nice red and white oak but not a single Pin oak, which I love so we ***had*** to go to WalMart this week for cat food ($16 a bag v $20 at Food Lion) and they had 5 ft. Pin Oaks for $11.... So we now have one... Hooray... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Apr 08 - 10:13 AM On another thread where we are recycling and decluttering someone took a bunch of miniblinds, cut them up, and used the shorter lengths to use to label plants. Can you put lots of markers around these things and find them later? I have iris and daffodils to move, but it's the wrong time of year. The trick is finding them later when it is the right time of year. With some I may move them anyway because otherwise I'll forget and mow the area flat and lose them again till next spring. I'm not expert in all of this transplanting, but I don't have a lot of high-dollar things, except for the trees, and I try not to move those if I can avoid it. I went over to that other thread and picked up the source code for those links:
Before and After and different "After" angle. I need to mow the grass. My retired next door neighbor is always a couple of days ahead of me. And I need to get more Bermuda out of some of the beds. You know how it is when you have your own patch of dirt to work on. I think the house could be a shack if I could putter in the garden. I know we share the same disease. I'm aiming at turning one of those segments of the front into the kind of planting you have in your current front yard. The difference with my garden and what the rest of you are talking about is that I'm simply taking advantage of nature's springtime surge with common and easy to move plants. I haven't had the time, money, or at times, discipline (you have to get up really early here to garden in the high summer if you can't stand the heat) to do anything fancy, and I can't even keep up with the beds I plant. But a couple of times a year my laisee faire approach and Mother Nature's exuberance are in perfect alignment and the iris are taller than the weeds. That's my trick. Take photos when the yard looks good and use those shots all year round. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 12 Apr 08 - 08:59 AM If you get enough root ball with the peonie and don't change it's light it should bloom fine... Just be sure to trick it into thinking it hasn't been moved... What ever moinsture it is used to you'll have to maintain, though... Don't divide until after it finsihes blooming and then do so carefully... No shovel doen the nmiddle trick like day lillies... As for your bulbs, you know to enjoy them and then pot them... If thay are late bloomer you might get away with potting them if you get enough dirt around them... The problems with that is if they have clustered you are apt to damage the bulb for this year, however, it will be fine for next year... Can't help ya' with earwigs... Read the label on your horticultural oil and see if it works on them critters... Seems to work on most pests... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 12 Apr 08 - 12:50 AM Kat, Maggie's pictures are over on the condo thread. I missed them at first and just found them a day or two ago. Wow! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 12 Apr 08 - 12:48 AM Gonna rain here again this weekend. Lord knows we need plenty more rain, but it would be nice if it would fall during the work week. Even so, I think I'm going ahead and start potting stuff up, unless we get a deluge that absolutely saturates the ground. Advice and opinions, please. 1. Although it is absolutely the wrong time of year, I am going to be digging up peonies, of which I have several varieties. A few of them have been in place for 8 or 9 years, but most of them I divided, transplanted, or was gifted with divisions within the last 1 to four years. Think they will withstand being dug up in spring without being set back from bloom for more than a year? And should I go ahead and divide any with significant root mass (it doesn't take long to get root mass with peonies, you know,)as it will be much easier to pot them up and move them, or should I try to dig out the whole plant? Even the late peonies are up to about a foot, and it is going to be hard to dig them without breaking a lot of the stems. I'm concerned about preserving enough of the stems to sustain the plants through the summer. I don't think dormant eyes will sprout to compensate, but don't know that for sure. 2. Bulbs. a. I'm not going to fool with digging the common hybrid tulips. But I have a number of species tulips and heirloom daffs that are expensive to replace, and some sort of heirloom hyacinth or scillia that was here when I moved, I haven't been able to conclusively identify, and that I have not found in any catalogs. I'm thinking I will go ahead and dig them now, while I know where and what they are, and pot them up. If I wait until they are dormant, I'll lose track of what is what. Think that will work? I also have a number of lilies that are very well established. None of them are rare, but lily bulbs are expensive. However, I have read that large lily bulbs do not do well if dug up and transplanted - that there is an optimum size for transplanting (what you get when you order #1 size bulbs) and that larger bulbs don't do so well. Any of you have experience with this? Unrelated to the above, but more related to this thread, I have had problems with earwigs that I think were a present included with a dump trunk load of otherwise beautiful compost I got a few years ago. (They even chew on daffodils - it took looking at the blooms by flashlight to figure that one out.) My heavy use of leafmold for mulch also promotes earwigs. In one garden bed I have problems with a fungus that I suspect was brought in with a load of horse manure. Although there are some favorite plants in that bed that were gifts and/or pass-alongs from dear gardener friends, I am not going to bring any of those plants with me. In addition, I have bunches of maximillan sunflowers that have been hit with something that may be disease or may be fungus (whatever it is, it has slammed these sunflowers all over town in the last few years.) I won't be potting up any of these, or passing them along. Have any of you had experience with insect infestations or pathogensbrought in by organic soil amendments? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 11 Apr 08 - 11:48 PM Well, the BioGreen guy had to take his daughter to the doctor, unexpectedly. He was supposed to call me today to reschedule, but I didn't hear from him. I will call him back on MOnday. I hope his kid is okay. I guess Rog, my brother and I could spray with vinegar, but I'd rather have them do a controlled burn. Ah, well, it's cold and drizzly with wind, anyway, so we're doing inside work this weekend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Apr 08 - 10:47 PM I have a couple of those. But I love my digital cameras now that I'm using them. My Louisiana iris are open full bloom now. It smells wonderful out there today. They look almost like orchids. I started with a handful of these on one side of the house six years ago. Now I have several nice patches. And the regular "garden variety" iris, various shades of yellow, they're all around the yard. Only a few blue ones, in the same spot, but I put twist ties on them so I can find them later and I'll divide them out later. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 11 Apr 08 - 06:59 PM We're still a couple/three weeks behind ya, SES... But I got the canera laoded up with film... Yeah, sorry, but I use a 40 year old, at least, single reflex, 35 mm & a couple lenses... Love old time phopgraphy... Plus, its what I know... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Apr 08 - 12:50 PM Gorgeous weekend coming up. Gardeners, keep your cameras handy! I'd like to see some of the work people are talking about here! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 10 Apr 08 - 05:09 PM Ahhhhhm I'm still messed up, SRS, but the neurosergeon said that if I can tolerate the pain that I'm not damaging anything so... ... I'm doing what I can but between the P=-Vine and me we're gettin' the gardens in shape... There are ceratin things I can do that I didbn't use to do simply because either I didn't like doing them or the P-Vine did them... Now we are communication better so that we still get evrything done... So far... One thing that wears he out is spraying so I 've got a 10 gallon with a 12 volt electric pump and I've got an old dump cart that pulls behind a tractot mower and I'm gonna rig it all up so that I can get on the garden tractor with the sprayer mounted on the dump cart and a seat mounted on the dump cart and pull the P-Vine around the gardens and she can do most of her spraying without having to walk back to the house to mix more of whatever she is sparying and won't be worn out from lugging sprayers 'round the farms... One advantage of being stoved up is that you get real creative... BTW, the gardens look better than ever... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Donuel Date: 10 Apr 08 - 02:00 PM Most Iris can take the heat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 10 Apr 08 - 11:23 AM I noticed at Big Lots the last time I was in that they had that landscaping cloth at a pretty reasonable price. Once I get a little cash I may go pick up a roll and give it a try around a couple of things I'd like to keep grass away from. Heavy rains the last couple of nights. Means I can't mow for a while and the grass is getting tall. Another heavy weekend workout ahead. Bobert, how are you feeling these days? Is the pinched nerve still restricting your gardening movements? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 10 Apr 08 - 08:14 AM Just remembered another trick when it comes to voles... Plant the entire plastic container with steel hardware cloth (screen) in around the holes in the bottom so the citters can't get into the pot... This is especially good for hostas ow the roots are the voles favorite food... Another product that while not 100% vole proof but vole resistent is Permitil, which is like a gravely stuff... It is also very good if you have a lot of clay in your area... BTW, clay has alot of nutrients in it so if when you're planting a new shrub be sure to put at least a 1/3 of the clay you dug out into your planting mix... We use 1/3 clay, 1/3 top soil and the rest equal amounts of "pine fines" and Permitil... Very nice mix and plants thrive in it... At least where we are and the types of ornimentals we grow... Hey, ya' all... Maybe we need an ornimentals thread??? Maybe not??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 08 - 12:38 AM Maggie, i know you posted pix of your place before and after, but I can't find them. Just wanted to say, wow! Well-done. You can tell you've really done a lot. You've inspired me to get a couple of new trees planted this year. The Bio-Green guy comes tomorrow. I am looking forward to meeting him and hearing what he recommends. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:01 AM My dogs are keeping the katydids down. They both like them (as snacks!), but the pit bull keeps an eye on the catahoula and chases her away from her bug if she doesn't eat it fast enough. (This is so weird. I'm in charge of the dog food, but the pit bull is in charge of the bugs.) I took Poppy and a katydid I caught into the kennel and gave it to her. She was shy at first, looking over her shoulder at Cinnamon outside, then hunkered down and ate it. Their behavior is reminiscent of the grackles who often follow me when I mow the lawn. The birds will be a couple of rows behind, looking for injured bugs. The dogs were a little ahead of me watching for fleeing green katydids. It was funny to watch. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM I have some rock samples of layered chert, opal, and diatomaceous earth my brother brought back from a geology field trip to Eastern Washington. Really interesting stuff. I thought that sounded like a great field trip. It always seemed to happen that I was picking up rocks on biology field trips and finding plants on geology trips, but whatever. Those field trip rocks are some of my favorite bookshelf trinkets. Three hours in the yard finished the back, all pretty straight forward mowing. The front is trickier with all of the beds for iris and such. I have a rule for myself--I can't go to the garden store to buy the bedding plants or whatever until I FINISH DIGGING THE BED. Otherwise I have to keep these things alive until I get around to planting them and sometimes there can be a considerable delay. I've saved myself a lot of money by following that rule. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Rowan Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:30 AM the diatomaceous eath is ground up sea ahells Diatomaceous earth (also known as Kieselguhr) is the 'fossilised' skeletons of diatoms. The skellies are extremely fine silica, whereas the shells of molluscs (the usual form of seashell) are mostly calcium carbonate so the diatomaceus earth is siliceous rather than carbonaceous. The carbonate would rarely be ground as finely as the diatoms and would affect the pH of the soil whereas the silica won't. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 06 Apr 08 - 11:59 PM We have a an overabanudance of deer here also, in town, where I live. For veggie gardens, the market gardeners around here put up electric fence. They don't keep it hot all the time, but bait it with peanut butter when it is hot, and always at the beginning of the growing season. The deer lick the peanut butter, get shocked, and tend to avoid the area after that. The same thing can work somewhat with groundhogs - one strand really low, baited with peanut butter. But keep the .22 or the shotgun handy season long. I find that a strong stream of water alone works just fine with the aphids. It helps to stay right on top of it when the aphids first appear. A couple of weeks of blasting them off of the plants when they first appear every two to three days seems to take care of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 03:34 PM If I am not sidtaken the diatomaceous eath is ground up sea ahells that when consumed mess with buf tummies... There used to be another organic product which we can not longer find call "sabadilla dust" which worked very well with most critters with 6 legs... We use horticultural oil or insecticidal soap with water for the aphids... Also, if I haven't netioned it, birds are our friends... Make yer garden bird friendly... Even a bird bath helps... Song birds will eat lots of bugs... A bat house is a good idea if you have a pole or garden house to hang it on... Crows are the enemy and a scare crow will ward them off... Dangle a couple of aluminum pie pans from Mr. Scarercrows arms and this will also scare off the deer... Somewhat... We are lucky to have hundreds of frogs that inhabit our veggie garden and not only aare they cute as a button but they eat lots of bugs... Other pests: Voles: They hate castor bean plants... These plant are quite decorative... You can cruash the caster bean and put the crushed beans in the vole holes... That really bugs them... Voles can also be caught in mice traps... Put eh trap with some peanut butter on it and then cover with a pot and rock on top and ....bango!!! Deer: We swear by "Liquid Fence"... Okay, the smell takes a little gettin' used to but it will keep the deer away from your ornimentals... You can also use it one veggie plants but wouldn't advise hitting anything you might want to, ahhhhh, eat... We also have deer fence around our veggie garden with colored surveyors tape tied in little bows all around the garden... It isn't 100% becuase once or twice a season a knothead will try to jump the fence anyway and occasionally get over just enough of it to kinda get tangled in it and panic and make a mess of the fence which then needs to be repaired... Groundhogs: Grrrrrrrrrrr!!! .410 shotgun!!! Oh, BTW, I think someone asked about our composter... It is a Mantis (yeah, same company as the tillers) and is about 100 gallons, 2 chanbers with big ring gears on both ends of the cylindar and a crank handle that turns an axle that runs under the tumbler... On the exle are two smaller drive gears that are situated under the ring gears and so when you turn the handle the drum goes round and round... it has two chambers whcih is nice because you can use some of the good compost with new stuff to get the bacteria that is needed to get the process in motion... So the smart thing to do is have one chanber which is about ready to use and the other new stuff... that way you aleternate chambers and you always have some compost just about or ready to use... That's it for now... B-Bear |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:17 PM Mister Bo-Bear, I ran your tip past Howard Garrett this morning. He has heard it, and said another thing that has the same effect is a dusting of diatomaceous earth. I asked about the range of bugs it would kill, and he seems to think it will work as well on katydids and grasshoppers as it will on caterpillars. My on-air quip was that I'd like to see it paste the rest of them (like aphids) in place and prevent their sucking. Howard speculated that maybe a mix of the two might indeed have the beneficial effect of not only blowing up the bugs with chewing mouth parts, but pasting (or at least gumming up) the others (like aphids) to the plant in the event of moisture. Garden science in action! Let the tests begin! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Apr 08 - 11:34 PM If any of you are interested you can listen to Howard Garrett, the "Dirt Doctor" on Sunday mornings on a few radio stations around the country, or you can listen to it stream on the Internet. KSKY-AM has a lot of the usual conservative talking-heads (though I see they have Dennis Miller on for three hours every weeknight), but every Sunday morning from 8am to 11am Central Time they play Howard Garrett's talk show. He is the "Dirt Doctor." I think the radio stations out of the area only carry it from 8 - 10. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Apr 08 - 08:54 PM You can get corn gluten meal at the local feed store, most likely. Even if you did it three weeks ago I think it would have acted like a fertilizer, not a weed killer, but done at the proper time, it is a good weed killer. Down here (North Texas) The Dirt Doctor reminds people that the week between Christmas and New Years is the best time to spread the corn gluten meal as a pre-emergent weed killer. I've been digging out more grass around the basketball post today, though I haven't gone down around the concrete holding it in yet. But that sucker is coming out this weekend. Looks like it will be tomorrow because I have things to finish before dark and it's getting close to that now. My next door neighbor brought over a few extra plants she has from a friend giving them to her. I've been rescuing day lillies from under some salvia and the ones she brought will be a nice addition to my sparse collection. And a couple of women who walk past the house regularly walked up the drive today and in broken English asked if they could have some iris roots, pointing at my plants that started to bloom this week. She indicated by wrapping her hand around the plant as if to pull, but only to show me what she wanted, not to ransack my plantings. I told her I had some extras I hadn't planted last fall so we went back to the odds and ends corner by the garage and dug through the milk crate they stayed in all winter. Quite a few were sprouting again--iris are so hearty! I pulled a box out of the recycle bin and dropped in a couple of dozen in for her. I'll know which is her house next year by the color of the iris patch! ;) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 05 Apr 08 - 04:45 PM All right, the organic gardeners/weed eradicator guy called! He can't get enough good helpers, the money is better in the oil fields, so they can't do much for another three weeks, BUT he IS coming over next Thursday to take a look and give me a quote. He said if I'd had them here three weeks ago, they could have used a corn gluten application thing that would have killed all of the seeds, etc. of weeds. Now, we will have to burn the tops of them all and/or spray them with vinegar. The other thing which would work is to use a "hotsy" a spray washer which heats the water. He said if we sprayed them with one of those, it would kill them. We could do any of those, but he's got three guys at $40-45 per hour and I'm thinking they could probably knock out our backyard in an hour, maybe two, for which I think it would be worth paying them. We burned weeds when I was a kid, but never this close to our house or any neighbours, plus nowadays you have to get a permit, etc. Then ya never know if a gust of wind is going to come up. Some fellow just lost his house that way. The garden guys do a very controlled version. Also, he said it's hard to find the vinegar at 30%, but he's starting to sell it. He also recommends cutting in half with water. He said the government will not list it as an herbicide even though it works really well. Wonder how much the chemical companies pay to keep it off the lists. Anyway, I am excited. The weeds have really been bothering me, esp. when they got to over six feet tall and we had to mount an expedition to find the dog!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 02 Apr 08 - 10:39 PM I agree with the others, Janie. I would dig them up now and acclimate them to the *idea* of being in a pot, etc. Have any of you ever grown tomatoes THIS WAY?. They advertise the brand name Topsy Turvy ones on tv and they have a website, but I don't see why a person couldn't do like the guy in the article and just do your own in buckets. I like the idea of that...easy to reach and no weeding! The weed people haven't called back yet.:-< |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 02 Apr 08 - 09:12 PM Thanks folks. I was thinking that is what I should do, but was needing some confirmation. I've got scads of nursery pots and the local transfer station also has a recycle shed just for nursery pots that the folks who grow for market cycle through, so hopefully I won't have to buy much other than some big pots for the peonies. I've already put pots under the roses and hydrangeas and pegged branches to start rooting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Apr 08 - 08:54 PM Good idea about the black pots. I took mine over to the local nursery to recycle then I've needed some since. I should go ask for them back. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Apr 08 - 08:39 PM I'd start potting them now. And dig some more before you go as well. Don't put too much in the pots--give whatever you're transplanting room to grow, so it doesn't suffer in the pot. And are there containers other than pots that will work as well? Cut the top off of milk and juice jugs, plastic bags that you can fill with dirt, etc. Don't limit yourself by the number of pots you can afford. But start by filling pots first. I couldn't take my favorite plants with me. My ex is still in the house we moved to when we first got here. He has fabulous trees now--a sweet gum, baldcyprus, and Afghan pine in the back and an Afghan pine and my mothers-day yaupon holly out front. They're huge now, and I'm starting over from scratch with new trees I've planted. But the pine is getting up there after six years, and the vitex is a stunner. I have quite a bit more space here so I've put in a lot of trees. 18 months ago I put in several Italian stone pines--rated better now that Afghan pines (if they get too much water they have trouble, not so fir the stone pines, though both are great xeriscape plants). But I digress. Save some seeds also. Good luck! Maggie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 08 - 08:35 PM Well, first of all, you know anyone who would go by and have a little talk with "hubby"... Know what I mean here... You should have some level of understanding of how long you have before you have to move... I got connections in Carolina...My son-in-law is 'bout 6'4" an about 220 pounds... But forget hubby fir now... We went thru this very scenerio 3 years ago and moved 550 plants some 70 miles south and we just started potting them up right around this time of year and leavin' them potted up right where thet were livin'... That way they were with their buddies... Then when we closed on our farm we moved them in a 10 foot cover trailer... Took about 30 some trips but we got 'um all... Okay, not exactly... We left enough fir a gardener to have a a fine garden if they wanted to work what we left.... Unfortunately, the guy who bought out old house has let everything just just be overgrown... Too bad... We left alot... But, No, Janie... Find a nursery that also does landscaping... They will have pots that they will give you for free... Then get everything potted up... Be sure to get enough of what they are living in in the pot... That way they won't know they have been dug up... But dig 'um now and [put the piots back in the holes... No one 'cept us will know that yer gettin' ready to move and plus, if you have moles they will be safer in the pots... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Janie Date: 02 Apr 08 - 07:47 PM OK gardeners, here is a question for you about potting up. I know that I will be moving from here when hubby finally agrees to some sort of property settlement. (I thought I would be gone already - silly me.) I could be out of here as early as May. He could possibly drag this out for another year, but I don't think that will happen. If you were me, would you go ahead and dig and pot up divisions of stuff now, as the plants are starting to grow, and hold them in pots, maybe for months or another year, or wait until I get my marching papers, letting them grow on in the ground with plenty of room, but which might mean digging and potting plants up in the high heat of summer? Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 02 Apr 08 - 10:49 AM Thanks to you lot, for the motivation, I have called Biogreen Organics and left a message for them about needing weed control. We'll see if I can budget for them and what they say.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 02 Apr 08 - 10:43 AM I did know that, Sorcha, in fact I don't know if this is still true, but it was illegal in some places to grow tansy because of its use as an abortifacent. It doesn't seem to work with the ants down here, but baby powder does!:-) Also, I have kept it isolated from any other beds, but would be just as happy if it did try to take over, it's so easy to care for. Oh, wait, I have a small batch at the end of my flower bed, but it has not thrived as well; it's a red flower variety and just doesn't seem happy. I'm thinking I may just get a ton more flax plants and just fill the flowerbed with them! Thanks, Maggie. I'll take a look at that site, too. While new grass would be helpful, I don't see it happening this year. I'll be happy if we can get the weeds under control and go from there. We do have three grapevines now and the oldest, which I bought for Rog, three years ago, gave out tons of really sweet small grapes last year. We couldn't eat them all and had to give some to the neighbours and birds. I expect the other two to flourish and give forth this year, too. This is great vineyard country. I just can't seem to get things to grow down here like I did in WY. My brother had fantastic gardens here when we were growing up, so I suspect I need to treat my soil with some more nutrients, etc. I'll ask him about it. Then, too, he used tons of irrigation water back then. We have water rights, but no pump. May get one this year. Rog does have some pvc pipe attached to the irrigation pipe and uses it as a slow flood on the front yard some times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Apr 08 - 10:26 AM Look at different grasses, Kat. The one that is popular down here if people take the time to make the switch over is Buffalo grass. I don't know if it would do well in your area but for North Texas it is heat tolerant, drought tolerant, and looks kind of like a thinnish Bermuda. Gotta run today--later I'll look at the rest of your pics and see if I can find anything over at the subscription side of the Dirt Doctor site that might help. Meanwhile, have you checked online at your state ag university? They usually have tons of local research and information. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Sorcha Date: 02 Apr 08 - 01:33 AM kat, watch out for that tansy....it will try to completely take over. Did you know that it is an abortifacent, and ant repellant? Mine smells more like eucalyptus than lemon vebena. And I have to dig some of it out IF the weather will ever warm up ans stop snowing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: katlaughing Date: 02 Apr 08 - 01:04 AM Wow, not nearly as much abundance here in the high desert. We're lucky to see a woodpecker once in awhile, starlings are prevalent as are sparrows, and, sometimes chickadees, as well as robins. I love them all, but would love to attract more. We put out feeders and have a bath for them, too. I really want to get a bat house put up this year to help with mosquitoes. The big thing with our yard is it's big and full of weeds. Under a lot of it is some decent grass. My brother says if we keep it watered, the grass would take over and the weeds would die because they don't like the wet, BUT, this is desert. I cannot bring myself to use that much water AND, since we don't have a sprinkler system, it gets to be quite a chore to drag hoses all over the place. I think I am going to call a service to see what it would take for them to spray the weeds, esp. the foxtails as they are such a menace to pets and we had tons of them last year. Then maybe we can decide what else to do. The weeds grew to over 6 feet because they got away from us when Rog was unable to mow. Their skeletons are still standing in the backyard. With just the two of us, it is an overwhelming thought to get rid of all of them and I know of a service here which advertises organic removal. (We'll see.) I have a very brave and hardy Russian sage near the back door. (That's not mine. Wish it was!) It has a wonderful minty smell to it. In front my iris need to be moved, but are bravely coming up, as are my tansy (everyone has them and the R. sage as they grow without any maintenance to speak of out here. The tansy also has a tangy, lemony-verbena type scent. My catnip is coming up and I think my clematis is, too. It will be the third year for it, if it does. Oh, and my flax is also sending up frothy fronds amidst the blankety-blank perennial weeds in my flower bed. Maggie, I will see about that vinegar thing for the weeds in the flower bed. I think the vinegar would be good out here anyway because our soil is heavily alkaline, so the acid might balance it out nicely. I have a few perennials which may come back up IF I didn't bury them too much when I dumped all of my potted annual pots out in the flower bed last fall. I've raked it a little bit, but I haven't seen them coming up, yet. I figured it would be a good way to fill in one end which was sloped...it is now almost level AND would also add nutrients to the old soil, etc. We don't rake up our leaves and we use a mulching mower, so everything gets put right back on the grass, but I think we still need to do some feeding, etc. this year. We did spend a fair amt. getting our trees trimmed, even had a huge one taken down, so our gardening budget is kind of shot. I might be lucky just to have a couple of hanging pots this year. One thing I am determined to have though is a potted veggie garden on tables which are the right height for me to reach easily. I met an old man, once, who had a wonderful garden that way. It was so easy to take care of and yielded an amazing array of good veggies. He had most of his stuff planted in old coffee cans! Another old man had a veggie garden planted completely in sand. Nary a weed, beautiful hillocks of potatoes, etc. and so clean and crisp looking. It was a wonder. Great thread, thanks! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Apr 08 - 10:57 PM Self-rising flour? Sounds like a great trick! I try not to use Roundup. Here we are talking about Roundup and organics in the same post. Ugg! I need to find a way to spray vinegar so that my sprayer doesn't freeze up after a while. Vinegar (10%) is a good way to kill it if you do multiple sprayings. And get the roots out. I have a lot of wildlife here--this yard has been subject to benign neglect for many many years, and it is a large lot on a creek with a large adjacent woods. Hawks, owls, herons, vultures, egrets, the big charismatic birds along with the usual small ones. Had some beautiful cedar wax wings out back last week. And we have wild turkeys--what a treasure! Don't see them often, but they're out there. In the yard there are native lizards and lots of big green toads and Mediterranean house geckos and various earth snakes and other types if snakes. And my beloved tarantulas. Those can take out quite a few things like bugs and small mice. Lots of birds also. When Junebug season rolls around it is interesting just how many critters feast on them. Including my dogs. I find bug wings in the dog poop. The pitbull loves katydids, and I think she's the Junebug eater also. Being stray for a few weeks (at least) taught her some survival skills she hasn't forgotten. Anyway, come Junebug season I catch them and throw them in some of the big spider webs (non-tarantula types, that come out at night to weave their big webs, then dismantle all but a strong high line by morning). They build above where people walk, above where the dogs run. We throw Junebugs to toads on the porch (they sit under the light waiting for a meal to bounce past). And the geckos stuck to the window glass. Little dramas unfold as they compete for moths when you're in the bathroom at night, attracting bugs by the light. This is a great yard if you like the wildlife. My neighbor across the street is terrified of most of it. Her husband has to chase off geckos before she'll go outside. Other neighbors know to call me to rescue tarantulas that get in the house. I haven't even touched on the fish and turtles and crawdads and fresh water clams. Big clams, like razor clams from out on the ocean. A real surprise. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 08 - 07:55 PM BTW, soft bodied larve bugs can be eliminated with dustings of self rising flour... The eat it and wahmooo... They are in that big bean row in the sky... Bye, bye.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 08 - 07:49 PM Yes, Bermuda grass is a nightmare... "Round Up" works on it but as John has observed it takes several applications... Sometimes as much as four with three week intervals... The main problem with the stuff is that it has a very extensive root system so killing it in a bed probably isn't actuall killing the sumabich but just keepin' it outta the bed... Okay, SRS, yeah.... I put down 3 or 4 individual sheets of neespaper first... Then the landscape cloth... It's okay to use 16 penny nails to hold everything down... If your bed is prepared (tilled) then you can push them down with your hand... This really makes the rest of the job easier because you don't have wind messing with your landscape cloth... Then what we do is put down about 3 to 4 inches of double shredded mulch ann 3-4 inches of the pine needles... Tell you what... You do that an yer bed will stay weed free and yer plants will thrive like nuthin' you ever seen... All we do is put an couple inches of the pine needles on each bed each year and all is well... We even leave the leaves that find their way into the bed each winter... More organic material... Speakin' of organic... We don't have major problems with bugs in our gardens because the ecology is in balance... Even in our veggie garden... That is important... Ecomlogical balence is the best way to grow anything... Yes, it does start at the bottom of the food chain which means creating environment for bugs and worms... Then an environment for birds, frogs and toads... If you can do this then you are better than half way toward never having to resort to anything else to control damage... We are lucky enough to have a pond and frogs... The litttle tree frogs camp out in the veggie garden... With the straw mulch it satys moisty so they just move in and stay there all summer... They are such fun... I mean, I'm picking beans doan a long row and it seems that evry minute or so I see one of those little guys sitting on a leaf... Don't get any better than that... Okay, maybe sex, but those little frogs takes care of the garden and eat just about anything that can grow up and become a pest, like potato bugs and horn worms and all them critters... So, my advice is if you have a veggie garden make it bird and frog/toad friendly and you won't ven have to worry about bugs... Well, okay, Japanse Beetels are pesky and we just carry a jar with a lid filled half way with water and just pick them off stuff and drop them in the jar... But no chemicals... Well, that's about all I can do for now... These is some powerful drugs they have me on... I can talk gardening but prolly stay away from the political threads fir a while..,. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Apr 08 - 05:58 PM Stilly - Killing the bermuda before you dig it out just helps to keep it from sprouting back from the bits of root that get left behind if you try to dig it out. You'll still need to dig it out to get rid of the dead roots, if you want to be able to cultivate as usual once your intended plants are ready to go in - or when the bermuda starts coming back. (A cement mixer with a generous amount of water is a good way to separate the roots from the soil, once the roots are dead, according to a neighbor who used the method?) The exercise potential is still there - but it's more productive exercise without live bermuda roots in it. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Apr 08 - 04:48 PM I did acknowledge that there will be a mighty struggle. But there are a few areas in the neighborhood that have achieved this Bermuda-free zone. An the only way they can do it is with sizable concrete perimeters. I need to lose weight again. I might as well burn the calories digging out Bermuda grass. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Apr 08 - 04:38 PM In theory I can dig out the Bermuda and after a mighty struggle, keep it out. Theory in my area is that your theory is well past urban legend category, and somewhere even south of major psychotic behaviour. At least here, and probably there, bermuda roots extend to below the frost line (about 3 feet deep) and can go to similar depths to come under minor barriers like concrete foundations. Roots not killed can reach the surface a couple of seasons after the original "digging out" - and perhaps even longer. The Ag station here, where they maintain a number of test plots with pure single plant species for turf testing purposes, recommends Round Up as the only practical method of getting rid of bermuda, with periodic applications on a "barrier strip" of bare soil to keep it from growing back in. For removal before planting anything new (like a new lawn), an application should be made after the soil is warm enough for "green grass" to show growth. After a sufficient pause to see what comes back - usually about 3 weeks, a second application should achieve nearly complete removal of the existing bermuda. Although the package instructions say to wait a couple of weeks before planting, my Ag Dept expert says it's safe to plant "most things" a week after the last application. (With bermuda, better eradication often is achieved in the fall, since it grows more actively after the hot season as the weather starts to cool.) Once a "bermuda free" area is achieved, about the only thing one can say about re-invasion of the stuff is "Good Luck." But then I've always been an optimist about planting things. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Apr 08 - 02:47 PM You put down that plastic stuff? Under or over the newspaper? I have gotten away from landscape cloth--I'd use a much thicker layer of newspaper before I put that stuff down. You could go whole hog and put down corrugated cardboard instead of that black plastic stuff. I reserve landscape cloth for places like around the heat pumps, where I don't want weeds growing up and interfering with the venting or machinery. How big is your compost tumbler, Bobert? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 01 Apr 08 - 02:38 PM Yeah, I use newspaper *and* landscape cloth, SRS... Works for years... No weeding!!! Very little watering, if any!!! And topped with pine needle mulch!!! Yes sir/mam, looks great... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 Mar 08 - 11:32 PM We use a tumbler composter that will make beautiful compost outta just about any organic matter... But if you don't have one you can just drive three t_stakes in the ground, put chicken wire round three sides leaving the front open and just put yer leave, grass clippings, kitchen scrapes (including shrimp shells) in therr and turn it twiwe a week with a pitch fork and you'll have great compost... I composted everything until I got dogs. And then the wire and the stakes and gates and anything you could thing of wasn't enough to keep those mutts (even if they are good breeds, they're mutts when it comes to free food) out of it. Now I compost everything except table scraps, but I've been thinking about a tumbler. What is the capacity on your tumbler, and how often are you able to empty it out? NOTE: If you use this method then I would suggest a sheet of T-11 on the bottom 'cause it will keep any surrounding trees from raiding it... Believe me... Like I said, the dogs are the most immediate problem. They get so stinky so fast when they do that belly crawl under the fence wire. I have a couple of stacks of finished compost to put out in beds this spring. And I was reading Martha Stewart Living this month and saw the same recommendation about the straw. I have been using that kind of sea hay in the stall in the garage where the dogs sleep. For now, my garden will be at the side of the house, out of their reach, because they're pretty hard on anything when they get racing around. But maybe I'll gradually be able to move part of it back into the back yard. Kat and I have been talking back channel about putting in new beds. If you don't want to dig up new areas one fast and dirty (so to speak) method is the "no-till" approach. Put down a several sheet thickness square of newspaper pages, overlap the edges as you layout the bed, and put several (at least 6) inches of mulch on top and water it all in. After a while it will be yellowed and squishy dead plants underneath. I would wait a week or two then carefully poke a spade through it all into the ground and plant my bedding plants. Since you're not doing any other bed prep, you want to pay attention to your fertilizer and amendments (sprinkle them on top, they'll work their way through during the course of the year). Compost tea is good to give them a boost if they need it. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Bobert Date: 31 Mar 08 - 08:18 PM Well, yeah, I'm messed up but I've had me 3 beers for pain an' so I'll share a little... We are in 6-B which is kinda a pain because alopt of palnts we love are 7-A plants but with that said we do trick some of our plants... Our Camillias aren't supposed to live here but by putting them on the north side of the house we keep the sun off their bloom buds in the winter... Tghis is important because the ice aqctaully portects the bud... Ohter camillias have their very own cages made from dence and micro-foam... These guys spend the winter in these tent/cages and come 'round this time of year are ready to jump the heck out and bloom, bloom, bloom... But the real secret to keeping plants happy is mulch... No, not that double shredded hardwood stuff but ground up leaves and pine straw... This combination works great... Lets the water in the ground keeps it there... In veggie gardens we mulch with straw... About 6 to 8 inches of straw and no weeds and no watering... Yerr stuff will grow very well if your soil is prepared right which means: Lime, chicken manure, last years straw which all get plowed in in the fall and then tilled early April... We have a guy who tills everyone her in the holler... He uses a 6 foor tiller behind his tractor and charges about $40 per garden... Ours is 80X40... Then the cold crops and poatatoes go in but nuthing else until the soil gets up to 'round 80 degrees... Planting stuff in cold soil just don't work... Lets see... Did I mention the imporatnce of mulch??? This goees for all plants... My beef with commercial shredded mulch is that when it breaks down it bvecomes hard and won't let water thru... That ain't no good... Plants like water... The shreaded leaves break down and become compost... Of yeah... Compost... Don't let nuthing organic go into no landfill... Compost it... We use a tumbler composter that will make beautiful compost outta just about any organic matter... But if you don't have one you can just drive three t_stakes in the ground, put chicken wire round three sides leaving the front open and just put yer leave, grass clippings, kitchen scrapes (including shrimp shells) in therr and turn it twiwe a week with a pitch fork and you'll have great compost... NOTE: If you use this method then I would suggest a sheet of T-11 on the bottom 'cause it will keep any surrounding trees from raiding it... Believe me... This stuff is like gold and if start a compost operation in a bin of the ground every tree within a hundred feet will send a root over to steal yer stuff... Put the T-110 down... Okay, yeah, it will be yucky but the object is for you to have the compost for your chosen planrs and not some hoggy maple 70 feet away... Fun thread, SRE... Takes my mind off being cripped up... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 31 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM A lot of the time I don't do anything 'cos it's too cold, wet & windy! But I have planted quite a few shrubs/trees for wildlife & shelter from the W. Seaboard gales in Co.Clare, Eire (Hebe, Escallonia, Olearia, Fuchsia, Buddlia, Box). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 Mar 08 - 07:53 PM Too bad Bobert's all messed up or he could tell us about that expanse of garden around his new place. |
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Subject: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science From: Stilly River Sage Date: 31 Mar 08 - 04:08 PM Some of us in hotter, dryer climates do xeriscape gardening, others don't need to. But everyone who putters in the garden makes choices about what to plant, how to prepare the soil, how much maintenance they want to perform to maintain this plant, this garden, this look in general. I wish I could grow all of my beloved Puget Sound plants down here, but the cost in time and money and bed prep (to say nothing of water) would make it an absurd proposition. When I moved into this house it had minimum landscaping--an ugly hedge against the front and a beautiful but vicious wild rose at the back. I ended up killing off both (the hedge on purpose). I've studied Texas native plants, I keep in mind how large they are supposed to get, and I really like texture and contrast in the yard. I have one bed with a variety of evergreen plants, all sorts of different shades of green. Few flowers over there (the Silverado Sage does this wonderful lavender bloom every so often, and the rosemary perks up after a heavy rain). I don't typically add extra water to that bed. Other parts of the yard are for different kinds of plantings, and there are a few zones where more tender stuff goes (where there is enough light or shade, where they need more water and get it because of my foundation soaker hoses, etc.) Whatever I do, I want this yard to be friendly to the large array of wildlife that I find here. So I have permanent zones for nests and tarantula holes and bunny nests in thickets, etc. I'm also working on creating some shady areas. We're only beginning to get to the point where understory plants might survive. I'm about to take on an ambitious new project. I've identified two sections of the yard that are completely surrounded by concrete borders. One is fairly large. In theory I can dig out the Bermuda and after a mighty struggle, keep it out. The plan is to lay soaker hoses in parts of this area for some tender things (not all identified yet, some annuals, some perennials) to maintain them without the waste of sprinkling. What are you doing in your part of the world to garden in sync with your climate? And how far will you go to keep some favorite, but perhaps inappropriate, plant in place in your garden? What wildlife lives or visit your yard? Do you plant to attract animals and insects, do you put out baths or feeders for birds? I'm asking now because my first irises opened this morning and we have a new iris bed I put in last year. I hope you'll post photo links and offer web or book citations and there are a few folks who share seeds and cuttings. Oh, shit. The tornado siren. Spring in Texas. SRS |
