ethnic origins of Mudcatters

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 12:28 PM

Family on both sides came from shtetls in Eastern Europe/Ukraine.

On my father's side came to Chicago in the first wave in mid 1880s.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 01:34 PM

Since 1635, American. Before that English. Before that Viking.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,harvey andrews
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 06:47 PM

Three quarters English, Irish Grandmother from County Cork.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Augie
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 07:39 PM

What? Another Hungarian/Dane out there?I thought I was the only one.My Grandfather also mined in Pennysylvania and later Ohio before going further west, and also had a Kovacs in his lineage.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Chip2447
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:19 AM

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,chip2447
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:24 AM

Trying again...
Heinz 57 all american mutt...
English, Irish, Scottish, French, Norwegian, Cherokee, Dakota Souix, Blackfoot, and who knows what else.

Chip2447(climbing out of the melting pot and howling at the moon)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 01:20 AM

Doesn't matter - whatever it is - they don't deserve to count me as one of them.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 03:28 AM

15/32 Macedonian (not FYROM, the "proper" one that spawned Alexander)
1/32 Roma
16/32 Greek

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Gurney
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 04:58 AM

Last three generations are English Midlands, but as it has been a mining area for centuries, could be racially anything. English names, but.
Has it affected my music? Well, I prefer English tunes to Celtic ones, but Irish SONGS to English ones, and I have an Irish sense of humour, so there may be a Paddy back somewhere.
Second thoughts: My favourite songs are Geordie, that makes them Anglo-Saxon.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 05:51 AM

Missed this the first time around. My mother's parents were from Kishinev (now called Chisinau), in Bessarabia (much of which--including Chisinau--is now called Moldova, between Romania and Ukraine. Part of my grandmother's family emigrated there from Romania, but I don't know when. My father's parents were both from small towns/villages near Kiev, Ukraine: his father was from Buki, and his mother from Podolye. (Here's a map showing Kishinev and Kiev.) All four of them eventually came to Philadelphia, and some time later, there I was.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Kaleea
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 02:57 AM

It would be really interesting if someone were to do a tally of sorts to give us an idea of origins of "average" catters. Just in case someone does this, some of my ancestors met some of my other ancestors as they made their way West across the USA in the past 300 yrs or so. Give or take, as far as I know, a little under 1/2 Irish, about 1/4 Choctaw with a little Chickasaw in that mix, a sliver of Cherokee, the rest English, Scots & whatnot. Undoubtedly, the ancestors from the British Isles were already somewhat mixed up.         There is still quite a family mystery about the time when my mother was young & an aunt from Switzerland came over to live within the shores of Amerikay. Seems no one can now remember how she was related.
    If anyone takes on the tally project, please be sure to take your graphs & pie-charts with you to help us better understand as you give your radio presentation!

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:51 PM

Mostly Danish with Indonesian and Native American. Oddly enough, My Jewish surname came from the Indonesian side and my Danish grandfather
(on the other side) was a Zionist. I wasn't raised with any of the Jewish traditions. I was born in the USA but live in Canada. Although I'm more Danish than anything else, I call myself a Canadian hybrid.

Seems that every other generation has moved to another country. The men marry local women and so it goes. Makes for interesting looking children (none of us look alike), we range from very fair, blond and blue eyed to almost black hair, tannish skin and brown eyes. I look Danish, my youngest brother looks Native and my daughter has lovely, Indonesian eyes. My son is blonde and blue eyed. Every child is a little surprize.

Ethnic origin? Human beings from planet Earth.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:47 PM

I have no idea other than that I don't seem to be overtly black or Asian.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 07:54 PM

dianavan

Is there such a thing as an unstable gene pool?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:18 PM

No, but some of us come from the shallow end of the gene pool :-)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 10:59 PM

I don't know but I'm sure exogamy creates children of higher intelligence than endogamy. Better than stale genes being passed passed back and forth.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 03:42 AM

Just for the record - I'm English, grew up in Norwich, East Anglia, now living in the London area. My father's family are descended from the Vikings, and my mother's appear to have been in the Norfolk area since Boadicea!

Cheers
Tracey Dragonsfriend
Scorch's Pyrography

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 12:09 PM

2/4 Polish (Jewish), 2/4 Russian (Jewish) (my parents are both 1/2 Polish, 1/2 Russian)

Mom's parents' families had been in the US for at least a couple of generations; all Dad's grandparents (and his father) were from the "old country". Did this influence my musical taste(s)? Hard to say... I *adore* Celtic (Irish, Scottish, Britannic) music & dancing, also love English trad music & dance, as well as Klezmer, Israeli, Russian, Serbo Croatian, Flamenco, Broadway showtunes (my folks grew up just off Broadway, on West 98th St.), and classical music too.

I suspect the fact that my Mom was a dance teacher & loved folk music has more to do with my taste in music & dance than anything else...

Now I'm a "Yank" married to an English (mostly, with a bit of Scot) fellow living in Yorkshire (though it looks like we'll be moving to Denmark in a year or so) with friends in many, many countries. The world gets smaller & smaller...

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Dave of Mawkin
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 07:50 AM

1/2 French
1/2 American (father's Jewish)

English by heart.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 06:29 PM

Father's parents: immigrant Polish Jews.
Mother's mother: immigrant German, or daughter thereof.
Mother's father: Welsh name, but branches on his side had been in the U.S. since before the Revolution (his mother was supposed to be descended from Nathan Hale), so probably a bunch of mutts.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: mandomad
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 06:32 PM

Dad born in Dublin, tho' his parents were from County Wexford.
Mum born in Battersea, London, of London parents.
Musical influences...Rock & roll, skiffle,Blues, Irish and Music Hall, oh, and Al Bowley before I dicovered Folk.   Still like them all.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Muskratpete
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:15 PM

Feeling a little nervous here since I haven't seen too many catters of Norwegian ancestry. Traced my Dad's side of the family back to the 1600's in Norway....Mom's side of the family is from Norway too. I'm the 3rd generation on my Dad's side and 2nd generation on Mom's side to be born in America. Would like to learn more about Norsk folk music.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Bearheart
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:35 PM

Guest, Augie-- where in Pa did your grandfather live? I'm assuming his Ohio time was spent in the Ohio River country (where I make my home) since most of the mines are down in this area. There is an old pony mine on the property next to ours, and the nearest settlement is Mineral-- just down the road from Carbondale. Both nearly ghost towns now, but in its heyday Mineral boasted its own opera house, electric company and post office...

I'd sure like to know more about everybody-- the family history stuff really fascinates me. I know that my interest in folk music was really stimulated by my family's connections to their roots... and sometimes it's the other way around-- the music is a way to re-discover roots...

Bekki

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,augie
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 12:53 AM

Bekki
Family history is a bit sketchy as my Grandpa had passed on 8 yrs before I was born and Grandma didn't meet him until he had left the PA/OH area.I remember hearing Homestead and McKeesport, Pa. but whether that was mining work or steel mills I'm not sure. I know he went to S. Ohio from the Pittsburg area and then up toward Cleveland/Toledo before heading north and west to farm here in Wisconsin.I know every winter, I wish he'd have stayed somewhere warmer.
Best to ya
PMA
(Partial Magyar Augie)

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Terry K
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 01:21 AM

Originally from Denmark (Norseman), settled in Northern France (Norman), crossed the Channel in 1066 - and the Knight family name came into existence (as a corruption of the old Danish).

The Knights in those days were probably not as grand as the title implies these days, but you can still call me Sir if you like.

Then again, all of the above may be bollix.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:09 AM

Interesting. So far only one contributor (have I missed anyone?) has claimed a tenuous trace of Carribean/African blood.

No African Americans here? no Asians? Do you have to be white/pink/grey to join this forum?

For myself - Londoner, for as many generations back as I have bothered to trace.   It's not an ethnicity.It's an address.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: el ted
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:40 AM

Looks that way duunit? Any beige people out there?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: John P
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:40 AM

I was born and raised near Kalamazoo, Michigan, making me an American. My ancestors' nationalities were Dutch on my dad's side and 1/2 Dutch, 1/4 English, and 1/4 Welsh on my mom's. My ethnic origin seems to be mostly Northern European with a bit of Celt thrown in.

John P

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 09:16 AM

Polish=Mother's side
Russian=Father's side

I claim no nation for my own

..xx..e

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 08:12 PM

Billy Weeks - Does a sprinkling of Indonesian count?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Seaking
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 02:43 AM

Born and lived until 10 years old in Bangor Co.Down. Raised on a diet of Clancy Brothers. Now settled in Felixstowe, Suffolk.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 08:52 AM

nearly 100% human but welsh by marriage

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: muppett
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:31 AM

Nay Billy Weeks mines not a tenuous trace of Caribean/African blood, it's a strong one & I'd class my skin colour as being shade of mucky brown, on the account of me being out in the sun a tad too long recently in just me shorts & vest.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:31 AM

A mixture of Irish, Scottish and Northern English (Northumbrian and Cumbrian) with (I'm told)a smattering of Gypsy from when some of my family were in Appleby (cf the horse fairs).

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:38 AM

Dianavan: Sure it counts. A sprinkling of Indonesian sounds truly delightful.   Send photograph and CV.

But it in all seriousness, the point I was trying to make was that very few of the contributors to this thread have not been talking about ethnicity, which, if it means anything at all, refers to cultural background. The fact that I was born in London of a fairly long line of Londoners is (as I said before) a matter of address, rather than ethnicity. And the fact that someone was born in Belfast, is now living in Boston and came to folk music through skiffle tells me next to nothing about them - certainly nothing about their ethnicity.

i wouldn't want to follow my own line of argument too far. It can too easily end up with silly arguments about who is ethnically qualified to sing certain songs or play particular instruments. Nevertheless, I still find it interesting that one kind of music- the blues - that gives pleasure to many Mudcatters and which has an undeniably powerful set of cultural backgrounds (not all black) might have been expected to flush out at least one response from an African American. This thread has, to my surprise, failed to do it.

I return to my original question. Why is the Mudcat forum so pale in complexion?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:42 AM

muppett: Sorry, I posted before seeing your latest. Thank you for proving me wrong. But I'd like to be much wronger!

BW

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:47 AM

Oops! And the 'not' in line 2 of my 9.38 posting is redundant. must learn to read before posting.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:47 AM

Because (at least in the UK) the majority of people interested in folk music are white. If you went to a discussion board about Bhangra music you would probably find the majority were non white. Different ethnic groups have different interests a lot of the time, including musical interests. Nowt wrong with that.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: rhoda horse
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:50 AM

Billy, not everything in the world attracts black or Asian people, There's nothing stopping them joining us here, but maybe folk music aint their thing.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: muppett
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:02 AM

One of the best folk performers I've seen is someone who is Brown skined, this person is Johny Silvo. He performs traditional and non traditional songs from all over the world and his patter between songs is brill. Some of the older UK Catters might remember him from when he used to also be a Play school presenter.
And then of course there was Cliff from the Spinners, so it's not an exclusive club

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:03 AM

And for African Americans the blues ain't their thing?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:06 AM

There's quite a few people from ethnic minorities involved in the folk/trad music scene in Hull, [Kurdish, Yemeni, Afro-carribean, Asian etc].

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:08 AM

But although this is meant to be site for folk AND blues, there is relatively little discussion of Blues. And once a site gets a bias to one type of music, it is difficult to get the balance back.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: rhoda horse
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:08 AM

Billy, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this one. If mudcat and folk don't attract black or asian people, so what? I am unlikely to sample the delights of a Rap site. I doubt if they are saying, " why no whites here then?"

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:10 AM

What exactly is the problem you have about the ethnic balance here? Is it that you think black people should be more interested in posting here? That you think folk here are doing something to exclude them? What exactly is the point?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:12 AM

Are we meant to apologise for the colour of our skin?

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:21 AM

My God ! what have I started? The question was an innocent one based on observation - and I still find it surprising that - oh, no! I withdraw that last bit. Sorry if I've touched some raw nerves. Just one last thing. Promise. I wasn't attacking anyone or any group and I'm not asking anyone to apologise for anything. And havving re-read my postings I'm truly surprised that anyone has read them that way.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: muppett
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 11:24 AM

Nay don't be making apologies, some folk will read what they want to in owt that's said here.

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 07:49 PM

I'm a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant! I can't help that! In this multi-ethnic world I'm almost proud to be one.

Peter

Subject: RE: ethnic origins of Mudcatters
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 08:00 PM

Oh, oh, a WASP! Aren't they responsible for most of the oppression in the world?