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EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?

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George Papavgeris	13 Aug 10 - 10:43 AM
Will Fly	13 Aug 10 - 10:47 AM
George Papavgeris	13 Aug 10 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,Ed	13 Aug 10 - 10:54 AM
George Papavgeris	13 Aug 10 - 10:56 AM
The Sandman	13 Aug 10 - 10:57 AM
Richard Bridge	13 Aug 10 - 11:21 AM
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The Sandman	13 Aug 10 - 12:00 PM
Bonnie Shaljean	13 Aug 10 - 12:30 PM
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Subject: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:43 AM

From Facebook here :

Nick Hallam has been Director of Marketing at EFDSS for 11 months. On Monday he was told he would not be confirmed in post at the end of his first year because he "does not understand the organisation and what it's about."

Nick has done more to engage with the folk community in England in the past year than anyone at EFDSS in the last 10 years, working tirelessly and often at his own expense to immerse himself in the folk community on EFDSS's behalf.

He has been a public face for the organisation, coming to gigs, making new partnerships, and generally working very hard to re-introduce EFDSS as a relevant and contemporary folk organisation, which many in the folk world had previously thought was an old-fashioned society stuck in the 19th century. His sacking is utterly without any real foundation.

I would certainly appreciate an explanation for the action and a basis for the manner of its execution. I have signed the petition, perhaps you could also, if you agree.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:47 AM

Other than on Facebook, where else has this been announced?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:51 AM

Nowhere that I am aware of yet, we are talking minutes...
It was not "announced" formally anyway - rather it was reported by Sidmouth goers who met Nick there. This is precisely why I would appreciate someone from the EFDSS giving us the lowdown from their perspective, to avoid this being a one-sided report.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:54 AM

I don't know anything about this.

However, if the Facebook page is to be believed, it sounds more like a one year contract that isn't going to be renewed than a 'sacking'.

I don't think that such pejorative language helps anyone.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:56 AM

You're right Ed, it is emotive, but I am simply copying the wording of the petition, such as it is.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 10:57 AM

where is ruth archer when she is needed?

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Subject: Nick Hallam fired by EFDSS?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:21 AM

Cut and paste from gopetition follows: -

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/38391.html

"Re-instate Nick Hallam at EFDSS 26 Signatures

Published by Folkfan on Aug 13, 2010
Category: Employment
Region: United Kingdom
Target: The EFDSS Board
Background (Preamble):
Nick Hallam has been Director of Marketing at EFDSS for 11 months. On Monday he was told he would not be confirmed in post at the end of his first year because he "does not understand the organisation and what it's about."

Nick has done more to engage with the folk community in England in the past year than anyone at EFDSS in the last 10 years, working tirelessly and often at his own expense to immerse himself in the folk community on EFDSS's behalf.

He has been a public face for the organisation, coming to gigs, making new partnerships, and generally working very hard to re-introduce EFDSS as a relevant and contemporary folk organisation, which many in the folk world had previously thought was an old-fashioned society stuck in the 19th century. His sacking is utterly without any real foundation.
Petition:
We, the undersigned, call on the Board of the English Folk Dance and Song Society to re-instate Nick Hallam as its Marketing Director.

Nick has brought the society's profile on by leaps and bounds in the past year, forging new partnerships with many of us and changing our perceptions of the EFDSS. He has quickly become a popular and figure in the folk community, regularly attending our gigs and events. He has clearly done an excellent job in raising the society's profile and bringing it out to new audiences and potential members.

We feel that sacking him would be a backward move for the society, as it will lose one of its most passionate advocates."

I do not know the facts but I bet some here do.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:22 AM

Thank you for the instant move, mudelf!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:00 PM

i have signed it.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:30 PM

Did they say HOW he "does not understand the organisation and what it's about" or offered any evidence in support of this statement? I have been away a long time: is the job of "Director of Marketing" the same position that - many moons ago - Jessica Gold (for whom I worked at one time) had?

How are they justifying this?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,anon...
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:44 PM

FYI: It's not just a non renewed contract. It is a sacking. Just to clarify for the thread..reasons given on the f/b petition...

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 12:57 PM

From memory, EFDSS had recently been very pleased to get about £0.4M of funding, I think from the Arts Council. How secure is this - DCMS/Hunt are being perhaps over-zealous in cutting - and could it have a bearing?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:12 PM

>reasons given on the f/b petition

I am a Facebook member but not a Friend of Nick Hallam, and therefore can't see anything of substance because the page won't let me in (and only letting in Friends is rather like preaching to the converted). I have seen the GO Petition from the link in Richard's post but it just repeats what George's original post says.

What are these reasons, and where are they cited? They must be justifying it somehow...?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM

EFDSS[imo] have justified a few bad decisions over the years, the first one was not relocating the house, the second was closing the shop, the third was discontinuing branches, another was the scrapping of competitions [way back].another was discontinuing running festivals.
I feel ambivalent about competitions, but they are a great money spinner for Comhaltas., and they and the fleadhs boost the local economies., the fleadhs of course boost the music.
when are EFDSS going to relocate the library so that it can expand

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 01:26 PM

Hard to say what is going on. Cuts are happening everywhere. If fire, police, schools and social services are feeling the axe, certain arts and culture are not immune. They are understandably low priority on the coalition government agenda. It may not be the person that is going away but the post. Is there money for marketing? Is marketing going to be joined up with coalition of arts and culture groups?

Exactly who said "he does not understand the organisation and what it's about" and who created the petition and is promoting Nick?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Noreen
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 02:26 PM

where is ruth archer when she is needed?

She has signed the petition.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:03 PM

Actually, as a matter of (applicable, therefore UK) law, non-renewal of a fixed term appointment is a dismissal. Not all dismissals bring in their train unfair dismissal rights or unlawful dismissal rights, nor indeed redundancy rights.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:05 PM

I'm a bit wary about signing a petition at the moment where I am not in possession of the full facts of the case.Reference was made to Facebook, but the only information I have gleaned from this thread so far is a link to a non- Facebook petition produced by a third (or even fourth) party to the original info acting under a nom de plume rather than a real name. There is very little direct indication of the circumstances in the case (a posting by someone calling themselves Anon makes me feel a little wary) , who the individuals involved are(other than Nick Hallam) involved,the dates and sequence of actions etc etc. Does anybody have any concrete facts and details, or links to further information?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:57 PM

As I said above - probably someone here has the facts. I agree that at present the position looks odd but there is little that is concrete.

I can only say that I was nearly lured to joined the EFDSS this year as I thought it was showing signs of putting DEAFASS behind it.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:26 PM

His sacking is utterly without any real foundation.

That's a very dubious statement and a very one-sided petition. Are axes being ground? I wasn't aware of the man and I question the statement about him being "the public face" of the EFDSS, but people don't get sacked for no reason all. It could be something like not fitting in with co-workers, not being a good team player, which makes a position untenable. But really, that's just as wild speculation as anybody else is doing. Merely in the interest of damage limitation, shouldn't the EFDSS be putting out its own statement to clarify matters.

I too have been very impressed with what the EFDSS have been up to in recent years to shake off the DEAFASS image, through the efforts of remarkable new activists like Sam Lee and long-established ones like Malcolm Taylor. The magazine greatly improved its production values under Derek Schofield, but all this started earlier than the last 11 months so so at the very least this is over-hysterical..

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM

The fRoots article about Hallam's appointment in 2009 makes him look like a product of the commercial pop/rock marketing biz:

Whilst at Royal & Derngate, Nick started to develop a folk and world music strand bringing in the likes of Richard Thompson, Kate Rusby, Cara Dillon, Oysterband, Waterson:Carthy as well the more eclectic Imagined Village.

Given what I see EFDSS as being about, that choice of bedmates would have me wondering "is that really all he can see in folk music?" - he can't have had a lot in common with the rest of the staff.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 07:55 PM

because he "does not understand the organisation and what it's about."

That would tally with what Jack Campin has quoted above, though since they hired him knowing his main interests were somewhat off the society core ones, it seems strange it took them so long to realise the incompatibility. I still think there must be more detail to this than the petitioner is stating. How was he appointed in the first place?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 11:21 PM

A year ago, during Sidmouth week, Nick was "presented" to a group of EFDSS members at a semi-formal gathering in the arts centre. I spoke to him briefly (seconds), and he seemed an OK bloke. There was much gushing about his outside experience being a valuable addition to the organisation's outlook and much was clearly expected of him. It may be that he disappointed in that respect somehow, though I don't know how. Like other posters here, I have been favourably impressed with the EFDSS' marketing moves - yes, Sam Lee and others have been main participants, but not necessarily the main organisers.

So when I saw (on Facebook) the announcement of the petition I was somewhat taken aback. Like Surreysinger I hesitated before putting my name to the petition, as I did not (and still don't) know anything other than what was being written there. What persuaded me was some of the names of people who signed before me, people whose views I value and whose opinions I respect, like Jim Moray's. So I signed. But the reason I started this thread is because I know that some EFDSS members closer to the board than myself sometimes visit Mudcat, and so I posted the thread as an invitation for those who know to present both sides of the story in a more coherent fashion.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:46 AM

There is an increasing level of incidence where employers are 'dismissing' staff just before employment rights start to kick in, whereby as long as contractual process is followed the employee seems to have little or no recourse. I think I will enquire with ACAS to find out what there steer is on such cases.

IF EFDSS are behaving in such a manner, they are doing little to hold themselves up as a reputable employer, and organisations with a public face should be seen to be engaging best practices in all areas of management.

As far as this case goes, the reasons given for dismissal are pretty vague as they hint at what the 'problem' is without going into any specific incidences to support the argument/case.

I once lost a contract due to 'failure to communicate with staff members'. This 'lack of communication' was one incidence when I was working under immense pressure to meet a deadline, including regularly working late into the evening, and not having time to answer a question about how tax was calculated (by a worker who rarely did more than an hour's work a day, frequently went home early because of stress at work).

Anyway, to get a clearer idea, are EFDSS prepared to state the specific targets/milestones/key performance indicators that were not met that support their assertion?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 03:45 AM

If one's job is to Sell something, then their work is to sell it (in the PR-sense). Famously, it doesn't necessarily matter hugely what the product is. Marketing skills are not the same as "folk/trad/whateveryouwannacallit" skills.

If he was hired for this expertise, then why is it all of a sudden found wanting? I still don't feel that I know enough of the story from both sides to make an informed decision. What does Nick himself say? (Or is it legally wiser for him to keep quiet?)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,JM
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:01 AM

The fRoots article about Hallam's appointment in 2009 makes him look like a product of the commercial pop/rock marketing biz:

Whilst at Royal & Derngate, Nick started to develop a folk and world music strand bringing in the likes of Richard Thompson, Kate Rusby, Cara Dillon, Oysterband, Waterson:Carthy as well the more eclectic Imagined Village.

Given what I see EFDSS as being about, that choice of bedmates would have me wondering "is that really all he can see in folk music?" - he can't have had a lot in common with the rest of the staff.

I can see why you would think that, but Nick has thrown himself with vigour into traditional arts since his appointment, attending as many events and festivals as he can and taking up the melodeon. He even proudly showed me some vintage EFDSS memorabilia that he'd bought from ebay for his personal collection. I found all this heartening because this is what I felt the EFDSS and folk music in general really needed - he'd converted himself to the cause (of British traditional music and dance) and now he was out to convert others through his approachability and enthusiasm.

I have heard from a range of sources what happened here - its obviously complicated with many sides to the story which can't really be discussed on Mudcat. However, I do think that this is a backwards step.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:14 AM

I don't think it is helpful to either party to speculate about this on a public forum. It seems to me this is an HR matter between the EFDSS and Nick Hallam. The decision was presumably reached after a formal appraisal and communicated to him, and the details should be kept confidential. Possibly the EFDSS will make a formal statement in due course, but even then we shouldn't expect them to reveal any more detail than we have already, and why should we?

At the moment the understandable reaction is to support the underdog, but we don't know the facts, and speculation could be damaging to both parties, especially if rumours and half-truths start to leak out.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,JeremyRS
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:15 AM

I've signed it, which is something I wouldn't normally do without knowing the full facts, but the list of signatories contains many people who are closer to the organisation than I am and whose opinions I respect.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:39 AM

Howard - your post makes absolute sense to me, and I repeat my comment in my first post here (#2): Other than on Facebook, where else has this been announced?

By "announced", I mean formally, as in public statements by the EFDSS or by Nick Hallam himself. I haven't seen any yet and, until we do, we haven't got the faintest idea of the true situation. People can be got rid of for any number of reasons - inefficiency, poor staff relations, financial imperatives, reorganisation, etc. - and the only quote we have: [he] does not understand the organisation and what it's about, comes from some unknown source.

I rarely sign petitions in any case, being unpersuaded of their value in general, and I can't believe that any petition would result in the reinstatement of an employee - should he/she be willing to return to an organisation which didn't want him, in any case - and the fact than folk "names" have signed it cuts no ice.

Let's wait for some formal statements and more factual detail.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:55 AM

Howard, I would agree with you 100% but for two things:

a) Nick himself has obviously talked about this at Sidmouth, naturally giving his personal viewpoint, and that conversation led to the creation of a public petition. This is now in the public domain albeit still giving only one side of the story and it is therefore important to have the other side also presented - if not in full, then some appropriately edited version.

b) The EFDSS depends largely on its membership, and there are several of its members here on Mudcat, myself included. Indeed some of us periodically try to persuade others to join also (I joined myself barely 2 years ago). The last thing we need is to have another batch of disappointed members leaving over something like this. Some appropriate statement - not here, but on its website - would go a long way towards aiding understanding and hopefully calming the waters.

This is not simply sick interest in matters that do not concern us. While there is an HR dimension, more important are the directional implications for the organisation. The public image of the EFDSS has often been the topic of discussion here and the position of Marketing Director is crucial in that area. Having said all of that, I do agree with you that uninformed speculation does not help anyone.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: MC Fat
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:20 AM

The timing of this seems strange surely to 'not renew the contract' of the marketing guy withe 2012 Olympics round the corner is a bit short sighted. The cultural opportunites that the Olympics and asociated events could bring to the Folk Dance and Song of our Isles is immense. Not to have a specialist in post at this time is crass incompetence

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:43 AM

What we know of the facts so far (not a lot) seems to point at two possibilities. The vagueness of the reported accusation may mean that the real reason is being kept hidden - it might be a totally stellar chap or chapess lined up to step in and hit the ground running. Or at least a relative of a person with influence in the organisation. But the business about "does not understand the organisation and what it's about" does look rather like a bierkeller putsch by DEAFASS or at least those who are wholly focussed on a backward looking folk music. I say this with all due care since I am a staunch 1954 definitioner and a firm believe that the archiving and preservation function of the EFDSS (or at least the English Song Society) is its most important aspect, but an archive that is not used and where treasures may be lost to physical corruption for lack of funds can be as much a hindrance as a help.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:03 AM

The impression I'm getting, reading between the lines and putting out feelers, is that this petition is being organised by somebody with quite a high profile in the current folk world who is probably quite persuasive. No doubt she/he has various high profile friends who'd sign such a petition on trust, and then the ball's rolling. Oh look, so-and-so's signed it - must be true. George Papavgeris admitted above that he's one of those. Am I alone in being slightly nervous that the instigator of the petition, "Folk fan", has not done something this important under their real name? I'd personally want more information.

It may be that the EFDSS have chosen to keep a dignified silence, as has, it seems, Nick Hallam. Or it may be that the EFDSS are currently a headless chicken without their marketing head. The latter doesn't seem to be born out by the continuing flow of upbeat Facebook postings about autumn events in the past few days though. Do they already have somebody else in place?

The important thing to remember is that the EFDSS rennaissance has been going on for some years, not the past 11 months, which is why I think this is all a bit hysterical and am beginning to be concerned that the person behind this petition might have another agenda. I do hope the EFDSS isn't going to be thrust into 1980s style factionalism again, which did none of us any good.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:05 AM

I believe that Nick was on 6 month contracts - it is the second one that is not being renewed. Either way it is effectively a sacking.

Many people believe Nick has done a great job and the reason giving for the non-renewal of his contract is spurious. To see these reasons go to the petition and click on the comments - under VIEW.

My own experience having met him for the first time at Sidmouth is that he was concerned to make the EFDSS a less London-centric organisation. That can only be a good thing.

However the members appoint a board and what this petition effectively does is ask the board to look at the non-renewal of the contract. Can't see any worries about signing such a petition.

And I am a member.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:06 AM

DEAFASS?

Sorry to be a bit thick here - can anyone translate?

Thanks

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:12 AM

Dance Earnestly And Forget About Singing Songs.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:13 AM

Another possibility might be that although he seemed to have a lot of experience at the outset, his ideas were finite and had already reached their horizons. In a case like that, which has happened where I work, it's better to stop at the end of a probation period before somebody gets entrenched while no longer justifying their employment. A good director must be able to see such things and take tough decisions. This is, I point out, entirely speculation, which is no more than anybody else is doing here of course.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:15 AM

Dance earnestly and forget about song, I think. A long-gone chief executive (under whom I worked) took the view that staff should just work in the office and take no part in the tradarts. I did think they were moving away from that regressive attitude in recent years, but appparently not entirely.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:20 AM

Another possibility might be that although he seemed to have a lot of experience at the outset, his ideas were finite and had already reached their horizons.

IMHO I think he was just beginning.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:24 AM

IMHO I think he was just beginning
Well, as you said, you met him once at Sidmouth. I haven't met him at all. So you're more likely to be right. No doubt all will become clearer with time and, if it becomes clear who is behind it, I still might consider signing the petition. Not as things stand though.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:29 AM

The cultural opportunites that the Olympics and asociated events could bring to the Folk Dance and Song of our Isles is immense.

"could" in the sense that "pigs might fly". The sports establishment has no interest in traditional arts and no way in hell are they going to bung any money that way.

The only way the Olympics could feature in an EFDSS marketing officer's remit is as a catastrophe they need a survival strategy to deal with.

I think Folknacious might have it right - EFDSS thought they needed someone with mainstream music biz skills, then found out they didn't need those skills that much, or needed some other kind of experience more.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Guest/Skye
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:49 AM

The petition is to provide an opportunity for those who have worked with Nick to share their views. The nature of on-line petitions is such that it reaches a much wider audience.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 06:54 AM

Thanks Richard - all is now clear.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: johnadams
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 11:47 AM

As chairman of Ryburn 3 Step folk development group in West Yorkshire, I agreed to collaborate on the proposed online folk directory being planned by Nick Hallam. Nick came and met with me as part of a whistle stop fact finding tour to Yorkshire and we spent a long time talking and comparing ideas.

If the term "does not understand the organisation and what it's about." has truly been used about him then I can say that it is nonsense because he has a solid and well informed view of the folk scene, the society and the possibilities for the future. I say this as a folk activist with 40+ years of experience as a performer and organiser and ten years experience as a trustee of the EFDSS.

As well as being a pleasant and amiable man, he has a keen mind, an ability to think strategically, and a new found enthusiasm for folk music which has even got him learning the melodeon ( ok, so nobody's perfect, but it could have been the banjo!) ducks!

Another thing that came over strongly was his commitment to activity in the regions. He is the only EFDSS officer who has come out of London to talk to us and seek our viewpoint.

While the staff team team at C#H appear stronger than they have been for some time, there is still a long way to go and it was clear to me that Nick has engaged with the regional needs of the society as well as the general marketing and that he has the ability to make things happen. It is also clear to many others that I have talked to who came to the same opinions.

Whatever the reasons for not renewing his contract and taking him into full employment status, it is not his ability or his commitment or his enthusiasm. I'm guessing it is something more mundane and to do with personalities.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 12:20 PM

Up until very recently (since Cam and Clegg got into bed) Essex CC Heritage and Arts Service has been and are still working on and receiving money and external funding for a number of projects linking London Olympics to cultural heritage of Essex county. This includes CDs and talks on How to Speak Essex which highlight old Essex dialect, songs, stories and poems.

Heritage and Arts is working closely with Essex 2012 Legacy in a number of projects. Celebrating former Essex Olympians with displays and exhibitions at the Record Office, assigning Essex artists to Essex Olympic athletes who will chronicle their "Journey to the Podium." Regenerating communities and reassigning old buildings (Hadleigh Old Fire Station into a gallery space) in areas where Olympic events will take place. So money is being used for more than just sports.

Our festival manager who works in tandem with the 2012 team regularly contacts the Morris Ring to invite sides to participate in festivals and events. She tries to include singers of traditional songs specifically from or about Essex, but it is difficult to find anyone to do this.

Money is/was out there and may be again even more accessible under the white paper other initiatives that put responsibility for individual health and wellbeing back into the hands of respective communities.

I am sure EFDSS has the means to show the need and compose projects that link traditional song and dance to the Olympics and thereby get funding if it so wished. Perhaps it already has.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 12:35 PM

Did he suggest having a Show of Hands gig at Cecil Sharply House, by any chance...?? ;0) Bet he did..and all the old farts fell over sideways in shock!

"....because he "does not understand the organisation and what it's about."

I understand....it's easypeasy...It's about a whole pile of boring, humourless, up their own arses folks who don't want *their* music to reach the ears of anyone else. Far better to have it stuck in libraries and behind doors of drab and dreary buildings with names that would put even the most ardently excitable person off entering its doors...

I mean...The English Folk Dance and Song Sociey... ?

Gawd...I can smell the mothballs from here, and see the crotcheting members of the audience putting in their ear stoppers for anything slightly more exciting than a Walter Pardon Evening...

Pardon Me.... ;0)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 12:38 PM

SocieTy, that is...

Actually, I think they should take a leaf from George's book and rename the EFDSS as:

WTF It's FOLK! Society

WTFIFS is FAR more catchy... ;0)

(Disappears under table before Boring Ol' Farts appear tishtishtishing)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 12:59 PM

And that was the considered view of a person who, on her own admission, has never attended an EFDSS event, read a publication nor even set foor in CS House. If you are not already doing so, ignore.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:05 PM

Lizzie: remove the foot from whatever orifice you've inserted it in and go stick EFDSS in the search box on YouTube. Zone in on some of the video from Sam Lee's recent Folk Rising gigs at Cecil Sharp House, for example. That's the EFDSS in recent years, not some received wisdom of a DEAFASS scenario from the 1980s. I know getting facts right isn't your strong point, but . . . since I think you've admitted you've never actually been there, that's the least you can do on your arse in front of a PC screen.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Chris Partington
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:13 PM

Thanks Lizzie for you measured contribution to this thread. I like slapstick, in its place.
It seems to me that some people here are using this as an opportunity to tilt at windmills. This is a matter for the board and the members of the EFDSS. If you want to vote on it then pay your subs.
It may be an outrageous act of folly, but on the other hand it may not, and until more is known, (bearing in mind also that it may not be Nick Hallam's wishes to discuss his employment matters on the internet) I, as a longstanding member ('old fart'?) in favour of the current modernisation of the EFDSS, will not be jumping to any conclusions.
If somebody (above) thinks it's a Bierkeller putsch, then they should say why they would want to make such a damaging assertion.
Otherwise, everything I've heard so far comes under the heading of Wild Unsubstantiated Speculation.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:45 PM

Well, as you said, you met him once at Sidmouth. I haven't met him at all. So you're more likely to be right.

Not at all - in fact I based my opinion on the work he was doing not the fact I met him. Although he kindly asked me to get involved in a small project of his. And I was happy to do so.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 01:50 PM

Chris P -"Otherwise, everything I've heard so far comes under the heading of Wild Unsubstantiated Speculation."

In the absence of reliable information, the rumour-mill spins ever faster. T'was ever thus.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:17 PM

"And that was the considered view of a person who, on her own admission, has never attended an EFDSS event, read a publication nor even set foor in CS House. If you are not already doing so, ignore."

Now now, Sweetums, please remember that you who hath trod those hallowed halls have said yourself how boring it all is...

Now a 'What The Fuck It's Folk! Society' would appeal to me a thousand times more than the dreariness of the vision contained within The English Folk Dance and Song Society, which truly conjours up, conjours up.....well......dreariness, even if said members of said Society are whooping it up nakey inside!

I'm sorry, but you could have Brad Pitt as the leading member of the EFDSS and I'd still go "Ohhhhhhhh Gawd, get me outta here!"

Now of course, if Brad belonged to the 'WTFIFS' I'd be down there shoving Angelineee out the way in order to whisk him around the room to a Seth Lakeman number!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:24 PM

I am soooooo giggling on the other side of this screen. Visions of Nakey Morris Men and Straight Laced Lassies, faces scrubbed clean of Daring Do Mascara are filling my head!

"Lizzie! HOW can you be so disrespectful towards English Dance and Song?!!"

"Er....actually, EVERSOEASILY!"

Makes me die laughing that the old codgers have got rid of a chap who dared to like pop and rock music!

Hey, Nick...there's a spare chair over here, next to me, in the 'We sure sent THEM packing!' department of the wonderful, all welcoming, all understanding, all inclusive English Folk World!

And she patted the velvet seat next to her, whilst getting her Glittery Eyed eyelashes ready to flutter at yet another casualty of Those Who Know Best But Really Know Fuck All... ;0)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: open mike
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:50 PM

what IS the EFDSS and what IS it about?
Is this a paid position?

best of luck to all involved...
not likely to sign as I do not know the organization or sitution.

Would U.S. and / or non-members signatures be welcomed, or not?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 02:52 PM

http://www.efdss.org/

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:35 PM

Interesting that this doesn't qualify as "news" on the EFDSS website.

Instead there is "Wear your badge with pride - Special offer for members: Introduce a friend to the EFDSS and get a free silver sword lock badge for yourself and the new member. It is exciting times for the EFDSS and for the folk world in general; more and more people are joining or returning to the Society."

Which, one might have thought, implies that Nick Hallam must have been doing quite a good job.

It really must be difficult dancing when you have this habit of shooting yourself in the foot...

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:38 PM

John,
As a trustee is there any way you can find out what is going on and enlighten the rest of us? All of this wild speculation seems to be fuelling the boo boys and girls.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: johnadams
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 07:13 PM

Steve, I ceased to be a trustee a couple of years ago.

I still support the society with some web work and with directing Folkopedia but I'm mostly out of the loop with regard to the politics.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 04:42 AM

Why should it appear on the website yet? The staff there do not work 24/7 and I understand a lot of this sort of thing is done by volunteers. On Monday they'll have a chance to react to the petition.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: John Routledge
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 06:25 AM

Well said Manitas!!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 01:59 PM

Well, according to George's opening post in the thread, this happened on Monday 9th August. It takes no longer to write a news item than it does to write a post here.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 02:34 PM

On Monday he was told he was not *confirmed* in the post according to the OP. It would have been a bit precipitate of EFDSS to have made an announcement at that point and probably a breach of privacy. I note above that the original contract was for 6 months only and was renewed only for another 6 months, surely this is an indication that the post was never meant to last long regardless of the reasons given above for its discontinuation. Can we wait until EFDSS has had a chance to read the petition and comment on it?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 04:23 PM

The petition may be an interesting development of the story - but the story is the one mentioned in the opening post, and that is the one ion which it seems reasonable to expect a EFDSS press release without delay.

If that quote ""does not understand the organisation and what it's about" is accurate it needs to be explained. If it is not it needs to be corrected.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 07:31 PM

The Facebook campaign is not verifiably Hallam's initiative, is it?

Surely EFDSS shouldn't respond to anonymous third parties stirring it?

If Hallam himself had made some sort of public statement, they might be entitled to a rejoinder. As it is, it isn't normal practice for an organization that sacks somebody to make a public announcement about it.

They seem to have been put in a situation where they CAN'T say anything at present.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 07:38 PM

They can say what they've done and what they haven't done, and why. Open and honest, not a bad way to behave.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,anon
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:01 AM

Jack Campin: "They seem to have been put in a situation where they CAN'T say anything at present."

That is, as I understand it, pretty much what's happened. I doubt it's a coincidence that anyone with any genuine knowledge here is having to be anonymous and cryptic.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: treewind
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 03:29 AM

"does not understand the organisation and what it's about"
This doesn't ring true on the face of it, and it looks to me like code for a personality clash, as John Adams has suggested.
I have heard a strong hint from within that the decision may not be unanimous across the board. I don't know any more, so don't ask.

I notice that Nick Hallam's name doesn't appear on the list of board members on the EFDSS web site, but is still listed under "staff" and as a contact address on various pages.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 04:48 AM

Let's not forget that this story has emerged only in the last few days, and only as the result of an anonymous leak. I have no doubt that EFDSS intends to issue a statement at the appropriate time. However there are procedures to be followed in these circumstances, and confidentiality is important for the sake of both parties. I will be very surprised if the official statement, when it comes, adds anything to what is already being circulated.

It is important for any organisation that new appointments not only have the necessary technical skills but also that their "face fits". It is common practice for positions to be offered on a probationary basis.

I suspect that for reasons of confidentiality the EFDSS will be constrained from giving the full details behind the decision, even at an AGM. The Board is entrusted with the day to day running of the Society, and the question is, therefore, what can EFDSS members do when the Board makes a decision they disagree with?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:20 AM

"reasons of confidentiality" means not being open and honest. That makes sense if you're playing poker, but dealing with people isn't a game of cards.

"I will be very surprised if the official statement, when it comes, adds anything to what is already being circulated. So would I, and that is a pretty sad thing.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:32 AM

If, as is possible, there have been internal staff personality clashes in any institution, then "reasons of confidentiality" doesn't necessarily mean that the institution isn't being open and honest. Dealing with people is certainly not a game of cards, but preserving people's right to privacy in internal personal matters - for their own sakes - is important.

If, for example (and who knows), there have been difficult internal politics at a personal level, then the inevitable complications of all of that may not be suitable for airing in public.

There's still no official statement from anyone regarding this affair, so all of this thread is speculation.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:43 AM

Well we don't know whether the EFDSS has been "open and honest" with Nick Hallam. I'm not sure they have any responsibility to be "open and honest" with anyone one else - on the contrary, in the interest of his future career and employment prospects it would be better if any discussion of his shortcomings, real or perceived, were kept private between the parties. It's usual in these circumstances, and usually in the interests of both parties, for it to be portrayed in public as a regrettable but mutual parting of the ways, whatever the private reality may be (which we don't know).

If Nick himself want to place this in the public domain that is up to him, although he too may be subject to a duty of confidentiality. However so far all we have is an anonymous petition and comments by a lot of people who probably don't know all, or indeed any, of the facts.

Just because this is of interest to the public does not mean the public has a right to know. Speculation in public, while perhaps inevitable, is more likely to damage rather than benefit both parties.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,another anon
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:53 AM

It's worth bearing in mind, as online speculation continues here, that such is the nature of online petitions that everyone gets to see them - but you don't have to sign them and you may not even have an opinion, in which case you shouldn't sign. The people that have signed clearly know Nick Hallam, or the work he has done for the EFDSS, and feel strongly enough about it to sign and comment. If you don't know him or his work don't sign it.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 07:20 AM

Howard, Will, I agree that "just because this is of interest to the public does not mean the public has a right to know" and also that "speculation in public... is more likely to damage rather than benefit both parties". I would expect an appropriately edited/worded statement however, because:

a) the only (third-party/unconfirmed) view available at the moment is that Nick "does not understand the organisation and what it's about", which is hardly a "as a regrettable but mutual parting of the ways", indeed it is damaging to Nick.

b) the membership may entrust the day-to-day running of the organisation, however the board would need to explain major decisions such as this, preferably in advance of them being leaked to the public, certainly soon after, or AGM questions may result. And the explanation, while not necessarily containing all the unnecessary/damaging detail, should help the membership to understand the decision taken. A "mutual parting of the ways" kind of explanation should be good enough for most in this case; though any organisation that uses this too frequently would soon lose my membership, as I have no wish to support secretive societies (but I don't believe the EFDSS has abused the term so far).

As an interested member, this is what I have seen so far:

- A guy brought in to improve the organisation's marketing
- a lot of positive results in marketing since his arrival
- a (yet unconfirmed) message/petition referring to his employment being discontinued, backed by a (yet unconfirmed) statement that in the public domain is damaging to this person

As a member both of the organisation and the interested public, I need therefore to see something that will put the above into some perspective and explain the situation sufficiently. I ask for no more than that, as can be verified by all my posts in this thread. I ask for no speculation, no "dirt" on anyone and no undue control over the board's operation. I only ask for someone to help me understand the decision.

Also, if I was Nick's prospective next employer, and all I have seen to date is what has been made public by some unknown person, I might well think twice. I think there might be some moral responsibility there too.

I hope that those who know me, and certainly many of the Mudcatters, would agree that I am no shit-stirrer. But I need to know if there is a bank standing order I need to re-think.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mattkeen
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 08:12 AM

The executive staff are of course accountable to the Board (by the way the Board Members are the Trustees not the executive staff whether they are called "director" or not).

The Trustees and I suggest the Members (and I am one) should want to leave the Operational side of running the organisation with those that have been employed to do it, wherever possible. But this looks like a situation where explanation is due - but not possible yet.

To balance this up, I have known Nick for many years and the improvement in the Marketing and Communications side of the EFDSS as been terrific in the last year. Well done Nick.

But as is obvious we don't actually know what has gone on.

In any case, its a bloody shame.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 08:17 AM

Sorry mattkeen, terminology got the better of me, in the heat of posting; you're right about the relationship between Board, executive staff and membership. And I agree 100% with the rest of your post too.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 10:14 AM

Surely it's correctly and appropriately the responsibility of the Director to do what she considers best for the day to day running of the Society?

Were this petition to result in the board taking the side of the sacked member of staff, it would in effect be a vote of no confidence in the Director, who has steered a period in which the society's reputation and profile has greatly improved, massive Arts Council funding has been gained and then - only comparitively recenty - the marketing manager appointed as a result of this funding being available. It would make her position very difficult.

I begin to wonder if this petition could be part of an attempt at a palace coup by people who want the director replaced or maybe even fancy the job themselves. It would be a terrible thing if the society were to be torn apart by infighting as happened in the 1980s, just as its achieving so many good things.

Therefore, I still think that signing this petition without a full knowledge of both sides of the story is, to say the least, unwise bearing in mind those ramifications.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mattkeen
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 10:22 AM

Agree with you Folknacious

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 10:42 AM

"does not understand the organisation and what it's about" is an interesting statement coming from an organisation which has recently branded its national headquarters as 'London's Folk centre' . I walked past and found that a revealing insight as to the current direction of the said 'national' organisation.
Basically the membership deserves to be told what's going on

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 11:17 AM

I know Nick from his time as an undergrad and post grad on our courses at Sheffield Hallam University and know him to be a good and professional person. At the moment he can not comment so I think we should let it lie till me know more.

As to EFDSS I yesterday recieved, as a member, my nice coloured September - December 2010 diary. granted it did say'at Cecil sharp House, but nowt down for us up in t'North!

So I hurled it across the room.

Like all the other arts it's an example of the poor subsidising the rich!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 11:56 AM

I got that programme too. As you point out, it specifically says "At Cecil Sharp House" and doesn't purport to be anything other than a programme of events there. I registered that it was far better designed and printed than EFDSS output of old, and that there was some really good stuff coming up that I mostly can't go to other than on weekends but am very pleased to see happening. It looks like exactly the sort of thing a centre of excellence ought to be doing as a lighthouse to inspire people elsewhere.

It depends on whether you're running on positive or negative, I suppose.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: John P
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:06 PM

If you were sacked, would you want the details to be aired and discussed on a website? If you were an employer, in which universe would it be appropriate to discuss the contents of an employee's personnel folder with a bunch of anonymous people on Mudcat?

I work for a company that is part of the folk music community, and have sometimes had to sack people who are well-known members of the local folk scene. This is never done without lots of long discussions, soul-searching, and being very sure that there isn't another solution. Almost everything I've seen in this thread so far has been very similar to I've experienced in those situations: people who don't know (and shouldn't know!) the details feel free to make comments and insist that the organization that did the sacking "explain themselves". I've been accosted at parties with "what the hell are you people doing over there"? Unfortunately, as an employer, it would be rude, inappropriate, damaging, and possibly illegal to give any substantive details.

If you are a member of the organization, contact them and find out what they have to say. If you disagree with what they say, start working for change in your organization. If you're not a member, you have no standing to say anything at all.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 01:31 PM

"I got that programme too. As you point out, it specifically says "At Cecil Sharp House" and doesn't purport to be anything other than a programme of events there. I registered that it was far better designed and printed than EFDSS output of old, and that there was some really good stuff coming up that I mostly can't go to other than on weekends but am very pleased to see happening. It looks like exactly the sort of thing a centre of excellence ought to be doing as a lighthouse to inspire people elsewhere.

It depends on whether you're running on positive or negative, I suppose."
the fact that it is better designed and printed, is just your subjective opinion., it doesnt necessarily mean it is.
again, your comment some really good stuff coming up, maybe , maybe not, depends on what you like as regards folk music.
but as the EFDSS is very london orientated perhaps it should rename itself, the london folk dance and song society would [imo]be more appropriate.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 04:05 PM

"It depends on whether you're running on positive or negative, I suppose."

the fact that it is better designed and printed, is just your subjective opinion., it doesnt necessarily mean it is.
again, your comment some really good stuff coming up, maybe , maybe not, depends on what you like as regards folk music.
but as the EFDSS is very london orientated perhaps it should rename itself, the london folk dance and song society would [imo]be more appropriate.

I'll take that as a negative then. Strangely predictable . . .

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 04:24 PM

take it how you want.
its neither negative or positive its merely pointing outthat everything you have written in your postis purely subjective and is not necessarily fact.
can anything be strangely predictable?its either predictable or unpredictable.one thing that is fact is that the EFDSS is london based and london biased

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 17 Aug 10 - 05:19 PM

Nurse!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 07:58 AM

;0)

Found on a train, somewhere in London:

'The London Almost Evening Standard - August 2010'

"News came through today that Civil War has erupted within the confines of The English Folk World.

At Sharpingham Palace no-one was prepared to discuss the matter further, so we beat a path over to fRoots tOwers, but the blinds were drawn, the phones unanswered, the door locked.

As consternation began to grow, rumours started to abound that a recently employed, forward-thinking member of staff had suggested booking Seth and Sean Lakeman, Cara Dillon, Sam Lakeman, Kate Rusby, Show of Hands....and.................Mumford & Sons!

People had, allegedly, been beating upon the doors of Sharpingham Palace in order to obtain tickets, but so far, this has been fruitless.

Other rumours are circulating of Guillotines being erected in The Gardens...and that Damian Hirst has been commissioned to do a new sculpture entitled 'Chopped Heads of Folk Who Tried To Bring Folk Out To The People'

A spokesperson from FAF, Folk Against Folkies, was heard to say that no-one had the right to remove the Aspic from around Sharpingham Palace, and that Walter Pardon Evenings would continue, ad infinitum, for this was The Way Forward.

We will be letting you know of any future developments the moment we are privvy to what is being discussed inside The Privvies of Sharpingham Palace."

Wow! Who'd a thought it, eh?????????? ;0)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 08:43 AM

Nurse!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:20 AM

This thread needs a folk song!

The EFDSS Civil War

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:23 AM

It still needs a folk song.

The EFDSS Civil War

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:27 AM

:0) I like that, Cap'n Jack!

Hey, they took my Ian Anderson and 'Nursie!' post away....

What a load of spoilsports...bet they're all members of the EFSDDSDDES Society..

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:30 AM

The English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS) posted the following notice on its website on 16 August 2010:-

"The board of EFDSS is aware of the debate on folk music internet forums concerning Nick Hallam. However the board and senior management of EFDSS must deal with internal procedures in a private and confidential manner."

While this is quite right and proper, I feel that the Board and senior management need to respond more fully to the concern expressed by many members about the direction of the Society in the light of these matters. It is not the role of the Board, and still less of the membership, or the many articulate supporters who are not members, to interfere in staffing matters. However all these parties do have a legitimate interest in asking what the Society sees its role to be. I can understand that a genuine differences of opinion can exist between members of staff, and would feel that healthy debate can only serve to ensure that the Society's aims and objectives are clear to all. If, in the end, there are still strongly incompatible views, then obviously something has to give. What mustn't happen is for the Society to close the doors and not communicate with the membership. In the internet age good communication is essential. I'd like to invite the parties involved to be allowed to make brief public statements explaining their positions - but not going into matters which are personal and confidential.

We sometimes forget what a small organisation the EDFSS is, with a staff of only 16 people some of whom work part-time, a membership of 2,908 (at 31 March 2009), and an annual income in 2008-09 of only £730,496. Given these very slender resources it is something of a miracle that the EFDSS achieves as much as it does. My own impression has been that Nick Hallam's work has very strongly promoted the interests of the Society in London and beyond, and for that reason I have signed the petition in favour of his reinstatement.

Matthew Edwards

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:59 AM

Earlier I wrote

Were this petition to result in the board taking the side of the sacked member of staff, it would in effect be a vote of no confidence in the Director, who has steered a period in which the society's reputation and profile has greatly improved, massive Arts Council funding has been gained and then - only comparitively recenty - the marketing manager appointed as a result of this funding being available. It would make her position very difficult.

I begin to wonder if this petition could be part of an attempt at a palace coup by people who want the director replaced or maybe even fancy the job themselves. It would be a terrible thing if the society were to be torn apart by infighting as happened in the 1980s, just as its achieving so many good things.

The more this continues here and in other forae (?), and the more rumours I hear of some lingering sour grapes out in folk undergrowth about the director getting the job in the first place because of her not being "a proper folkie", the more I am concerned that this is the case. Please spare us from "proper folkies" and their muddy machinations!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 10:27 AM

"...Please spare us from "proper folkies" and their muddy machinations!.."

Amen to that, Nurse!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:37 PM

the director getting the job in the first place because of her not being "a proper folkie", the more I am concerned that this is the case. Please spare us from "proper folkies" and their muddy machinations!

Not if you read the views of those who have signed the petition and he commented on there.

The general feeling on there is that Nick was moving the Society away from its London-centric stance and was doing great things in the regions. This is my experience too.

Nothing to do with Katy Spicer's appointment.

Say, please remember to use a consistent name when you post. Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 02:57 PM

Lizzie. Not a rebel, not a naughty girl, not funny. Ignorant and seeming to delight in ignorance. Leave a struggling organisation that is trying to do its best alone, please.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:32 PM

eliza c, with respect[a struggling organisation that is trying to do its best]quote.
that is hardly relevant, this thread is about the sacking of nick hallam, if it is relevant then you must be suggesting that the sacking of nick hallam, is just someone trying to do their best.
I am sorry , but I find that a very strange way of looking at the matter.
here is a fact : the EFDSS is london based, is it london biased? was nick hallam trying to make it less london biased, was this the reason he was sacked?
I am sorry Eliza, but I have watched the EFDSS carve itself up before, over the subject of london bias, in the 19890s there was a majority faction that wanted to keep it as a london dance club, and resisted any move to make it less london concentric, is this the reason for his sacking?Dick Miles

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: treewind
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 03:59 PM

Dick, Eliza's comments about Lizzie seem to apply to you as well. You are both out of touch and irrelevant. Something EFDSS increasingly generally ISN'T these days. It isn't "the 19890's" any more (when was that, anyway???? ...no, don't answer, I'll die of ennui)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: RTim
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:20 PM

I wondered how long it would take for Dick to use this thread to beat the EFDSS.
Dick - you do your thing, and others will do their thing - this applies to Lizzie too!

If we were to be as critical of you, like you are critical of others - then God help us!

Tim Radford

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:25 PM

'Guest eliza c'

Awwww...cone on, lighten up, kid.

You see, that's half the trouble with the English Folk World and those at the EDSFSDDS&M...they take themselves soooooooo seriously.

I mean, 'eliza c' could you explain to me why, for years, they verbally punched the hell out of Show of Hands, saying they weren't 'folk'...but then...THEN they have Goldfrapp performing at Sharpingham Palace?

Beats me, that's fer sure...but hell, what do I know..?

Traditional Goldfrapp

And how come Jim Moray's the Traddies darling, doing all that electronicwhirlyjerlyderly stuff, but Seth Lakeman is a big nonononononono.....

The English Folk Dance and Song Society is nothing more than the headquarters of the Folk Mafia, who for way too long have sterilised this music.

Hello? It's the music of the people....Peasants, NOT Professors..as I've said before...It doesn't need to be 'guarded' like the Crown Jewels, but set free and given back to the peasants, of which I am one.

And if yer average peasant doesn't want it, well....blame Cecil Sharp, because he and like minded folks made this music the life blood of the Folk Intellectuals, who put it in drawers, behind cupboard doors, into aspic and then re-wrote it all with new rules and regulations, whilst sniffing down their long aristocratic, upper class snobby noses at the poor peasants who simply were so stupid that they just used to *sing* the songs with no understanding of the meaning, the history, the chords, the dates, the origins, the lyrics, the oompahpahpalava...

Oy Vey!

Sorry, but the sooner Sharpingham Palace becomes the 'What The Fuck It's Folk Society' the better off we'll all be....taken back from the Professors and given to the Peasants once again...

;0)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:27 PM

Oh, Poooooooooo, Tim! SMILE for gawd's sake...

Hey, how about a new genre...English Smiley Folk?

Ooh noooooo, that'd *never* work!

:0) <

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:41 PM

"could you explain to me why, for years, they verbally punched the hell out of Show of Hands, saying they weren't 'folk'"

Who did? Where? Provide evidence that anyone at EFDSS or Cecil Sharp House ever said this, or retract it as the outright lie that it is.

"THEN they have Goldfrapp performing at Sharpingham Palace?

Beats me, that's fer sure...but hell, what do I know..?"

What indeed? The Goldfrapp gig happened as part of the BBC Electric Proms when they took place in lots of venues in Camden. A money-spinner, I'm sure, but not programmed by EFDSS. So the answer to your question would appear to be "not a lot".

"And how come Jim Moray's the Traddies darling, doing all that electronicwhirlyjerlyderly stuff, but Seth Lakeman is a big nonononononono....."

If you're referring to the fact that Jim has been booked and Seth hasn't, maybe you could have a word with your friend Seth and see if he'd do CSH a deal on his fee - I'm sure they'd be happy to have him. Knowing how much he normally goes out for, it would be impossible to book him into a venue the size of Cecil Sharp House without losing shedloads of money, which would explain his absence from the programme.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:44 PM

Would it be totally and utterly unfair of me to consider joining the EFDSS for the entertainment value of the feuding?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:45 PM

Ha! Flushed out at long last, eh? NOW you can answer the questions your people have been asking....

(I knew Goldfrapp would do it!) ;0)

There ya go, folks...she's all yours...I'm off back to Facebook....

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:46 PM

Ooh, YES, Old Ratty, that'd be great! (sorry, just had to say that before I vrooooom!) :0)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:51 PM

Lizzie: fuck off. There's a dear.

"My" people? I left the Board of EFDSS several months ago, so it's nothing to do with me. Sorry to disappoint.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:58 PM

Dear stirrers:

Nick Hallam either wants to continue working at the EFDSS or he doesn't.

If he doesn't, a campaign to reinstate him at all costs is not doing him a lot of good. Having a reputation as a destructive social-network-abusing troublemaker won't do a lot for his employment prospects elsewhere.

If he does, slagging off the EFDSS as being an organization too stupid to live makes him look like an idiot for wanting to stay there.

Either way, the line you're taking is not helpful.

(In the absence of any concrete information at all, I see no reason why a parting of the ways on terms of mutual respect should not be a feasible outcome. Sorry if you have tabloid expectations that every dispute has to be conducted like a celebrity bust-up or football sacking).

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 04:59 PM

[clears throat, spits on floor, wipes cider from beard with sleeve]

Jim Moray the darling of traddies? What?
Seen the man a couple of times - most recently at last Towersey was bored stiff within ten minutes and went back to the Ceilidh tent.

As for Lakeman - stood through a festival gig of his this summer. Instruments too bloody loud. Perfectly comprehensible except when he started singing. Pop. Being male and over - say - forty I'm really not his target demographic.

Perhaps folk benefits by being done on a shoe-string for love rather than money? Discuss, please, while I go and get another Sheppys.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 05:52 PM

I started this thread in hopes of finding out any pertinent facts on this and what it means for the EFDSS, and I (along with several others) made repeatedly the point that speculation was not required, helpful or indeed welcome. Some people here (and it is obvious to any reader who they are) ignored that, strayed off the point and more or less shat all over the thread and my intentions. Thanks.
Not.

I should have known better than take a serious subject to the Cat...

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 06:31 PM

Mr P, may I humbly suggest that any available information has been gathered here. If not, then perhaps because it is not available. You take my inelegantly expressed point?

That being so, it might be asking rather a lot of human nature to take the unfortunate gentlemen concerned - and one feels for him - and indeed the EFDSS so earnestly as to exclude all levity or indeed rancour.

Have you tried simply asking the officers for a statement? If it has not been forthcoming, then should you be seeking confidential information?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 06:43 PM

Mr V (can I call you Old? let's be friendly), Matthew Edwards gave the published Board's statement in his post of 18 Aug 10 - 09:30 AM above. I repeat it here: "The board of EFDSS is aware of the debate on folk music internet forums concerning Nick Hallam. However the board and senior management of EFDSS must deal with internal procedures in a private and confidential manner."

OK, it's a holding statement, so I am prepared to hold fire. I am all for levity and levitating, not least because I am gravitationally challenged myself, and I have also been known to crack inappropriate jokes, now and again - mostly again. It's just that this subject didn't feel condusive for such treatment.

I said I am prepared to hold fire, so for now I'm aout of here.
Have a good evening.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 06:59 AM

Dick, Eliza's comments about Lizzie seem to apply to you as well. You are both out of touch and irrelevant. Something EFDSS increasingly generally ISN'T these days. It isn't "the 19890's" any more (when was that, anyway???? ...no, don't answer, I'll die of ennui)
my comments are not irrelevant in fact they are relevant, I asked
was NICK HALLAM trying to make it less london biased?was that threason he was sacked.
that is not EFDSS beating, it is asking a Pertinent question.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Liz C
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 07:04 AM

I suspect that Liza C and Lizzie C are both in fact one and the same person. Evidence? Well, I've never seen them both in the same room - have you? Same goes for Dick Miles and Noel Edmonds btw, although the evidence there is stronger as they wear identical jumpers.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 07:14 AM

"However all these parties do have a legitimate interest in asking what the Society sees its role to be"

I thought this was all laid out in the Annual Report.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 07:50 AM

I am not out of touch, I have been asking questions which ought to be answered, what was the reason for his sacking?
my other post asked what does the society intend to do about the library?how does the society intend to deal with the library re expansion .
Anahata[treewind] and Tim Radford, before you jump down my throat read my posts carefully.
THE EFDSS has become less relevant than it was in the 1950/1960/1970, because it no longer organises festivals, because it has closed its shop, because it no longer has the network of branches that it used to
many folk clubs are now organised without any affiliation to the EFDSS, the only society/group organising tuition on a national basis is Comhaltas.
this is not EFDSS bashing but stating facts, EFDSS is handicapped by not receiving the same funding as Comhaltas, but its present situation is partly due to previous poor management, for example Comhaltas is run in a more business like manner, their fleadhs and exams and competitions generate a lot of income, these are all facts.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 08:06 AM

the relevance of the above post should be obvious ,but I will spell it out , is this another poor decision [along with those I have mentioned] by the board?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mattkeen
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 08:07 AM

Its irrelevant Dick cos all the things you list that the EFDSS no longer shows that you do not understand what is relevant for the organisation. Who needs the EFDSS to organise festivals for fXXks sake! We need it to be doing exactly what it has started to do in the last few years. Communicate better; take into account a younger audience; promote the music and educate

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 08:10 AM

The shop hasn't closed. It's on-line at http://folkshop.efdss.org/. do keep up!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 08:16 AM

Dick: it is not very relevant here, but as you stated your opinion so vehemently, I will also mention mine. Firstly, I have zero interest in the EFDSS using its resources in organising festivals. That is a job others are doing very adequately. Also my interest in its organising competitions, in a business-like or un-business-like fashion,is in the region of zero.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: treewind
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 09:11 AM

"I am not out of touch"
Then don't bring up non-issues like being London-centric, which is old news.

"I have been asking questions which ought to be answered, what was the reason for his sacking?"
First, that adds no weight to your claim not to be out of touch. Anyone can ask questions.
Second, of course we'd all LIKE to know what happened but a person's employment status is a private matter between him and his employer. Even other EFDSS employees don't have an automatic right to know the answer to that question. Still less, members of the society who are not employees, and as it's a matter of public record that you are not even an EFDSS member you really are a long way down the pecking order of "right to know". This is not our elected government...

"my other post asked what does the society intend to do about the library? how does the society intend to deal with the library re expansion"

Irrelevant to this thread.
In any case the library is not a problem area in terms of services provided with the resources available, and the recent work putting it on the web is surely a good move.

Lack of resources is another matter, but since the EFDSS has several recent fundraising achievements behind it, that hardly seems a topic for urgent critical investigation either.

Anahata

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: John P
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 09:59 AM

I posted this three days ago. Many of you apparently need to read it again and again and again until you understand the basic concepts involoved. In short, GET A CLUE!

If you were sacked, would you want the details to be aired and discussed on a website? If you were an employer, in which universe would it be appropriate to discuss the contents of an employee's personnel folder with a bunch of anonymous people on Mudcat?

I work for a company that is part of the folk music community, and have sometimes had to sack people who are well-known members of the local folk scene. This is never done without lots of long discussions, soul-searching, and being very sure that there isn't another solution. Almost everything I've seen in this thread so far has been very similar to I've experienced in those situations: people who don't know (and shouldn't know!) the details feel free to make comments and insist that the organization that did the sacking "explain themselves". I've been accosted at parties with "what the hell are you people doing over there"? Unfortunately, as an employer, it would be rude, inappropriate, damaging, and possibly illegal to give any substantive details.

If you are a member of the organization, contact them and find out what they have to say. If you disagree with what they say, start working for change in your organization. If you're not a member, you have no standing to say anything at all.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 10:32 AM

I agree with a lot of what John P says, but I have to take eaception to his opinion "If you're not a member, you have no standing to say anything at all". This is pure baloney. The government, in its infinite wisdom, allocates funding to arts organisations by various routes, in this case chiefly through Arts Council England. Arts Council England in its turn assesses the merits of various organisations and people connected with folk music, and allocates funds to some and not to others. Now, it is entirely right and proper that any tax payer(or anybody else for that matter) who is interested in folk music should feel free to discuss this, to criticise, to enquire about the use the grants are put to, etc etc. It doesn't matter one jot whether you are a member of the EFDSS or not.
In this particular case, however, I haven't the remotest idea why Nick Hallam was sacked and will therefore not be passing an opinion(unlike some!).

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 10:46 AM

RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Liz C - PM
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 07:04 AM

I suspect that Liza C and Lizzie C are both in fact one and the same person. Evidence? Well, I've never seen them both in the same room - have you? Same goes for Dick Miles and Noel Edmonds btw, although the evidence there is stronger as they wear identical jumpers. <<<

:0)

Nope, I'm me, not she. And it's 'eliza c' not 'liza'...'cos liza with an 'e' goes er..er...

Anyway, Joe says I have to go sit on the Naughty Step in this thread, and I have some gruel to eat too...But that attitude just goes to show how humourless those who adore the EFSDSSDFFD are, 'cos if you can't enjoy a good giggle, yes, even over traditional folk music, how are you going to attract others in?

Right..Naughty Step here I come! :0)

Actually, I'm going to sit on the Naughty Twohey Step and remember back to the first ever Sidmouth Folk Week when Duncan McFarlane and his band blew the roof of the Ham Marquee with their brilliant electric folk music, filled with enthusiasm and excitement and all that's GOOD about the folk world. Heck but that was such a great night!

You can hear it here...and I'll be good now, Joe, 'cos my feet are tapping to the Twohey Step on my Naughty Step..

DMcF Band - 'The Twohey Step'

It gets better, because here they are at that very Sidmouth gig!
DMcF Band and 'Jigalo' - Live at the first Sidmouth Folk Week

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 11:10 AM

I think this, from John P above, should be reposted every other post:

"I posted this three days ago. Many of you apparently need to read it again and again and again until you understand the basic concepts involoved. In short, GET A CLUE!

If you were sacked, would you want the details to be aired and discussed on a website? If you were an employer, in which universe would it be appropriate to discuss the contents of an employee's personnel folder with a bunch of anonymous people on Mudcat?

I work for a company that is part of the folk music community, and have sometimes had to sack people who are well-known members of the local folk scene. This is never done without lots of long discussions, soul-searching, and being very sure that there isn't another solution. Almost everything I've seen in this thread so far has been very similar to I've experienced in those situations: people who don't know (and shouldn't know!) the details feel free to make comments and insist that the organization that did the sacking "explain themselves". I've been accosted at parties with "what the hell are you people doing over there"? Unfortunately, as an employer, it would be rude, inappropriate, damaging, and possibly illegal to give any substantive details.

If you are a member of the organization, contact them and find out what they have to say. If you disagree with what they say, start working for change in your organization. If you're not a member, you have no standing to say anything at all."

With all due respect

L in C#
EFDSS member - just about and with many reservations

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 11:16 AM

treewind,you say i am a long way down the pecking order.
greg stephens says quote
" Now, it is entirely right and proper that any tax payer(or anybody else for that matter) who is interested in folk music should feel free to discuss this, to criticise, to enquire about the use the grants are put to, etc etc. It doesn't matter one jot whether you are a member of the EFDSS or not. "
Treewind,I have been a member of the EFDSS in the past, I have also been performing in folk clubs and at folk festivals for over 35 years[quite possibly longer than you], I have also run a number of folk clubs, I reckon that gives me a right to know why someone has been sacked from the EFDSS or not regardless of whether I am currently a member.
Treewind,I am not out of touch at all, to me it is blatantly obvious that the EFDSS is london biased, it is also clear [whether you like this idea or not] that Comhaltas is the only organisation providing tution on a national basis in England , that Comhaltas makes alot of money out of their fleadhs, examinations and competitions, the fleadhs also provide much needed money to the host towns and help to boost the national economy.
IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG WITH FACTS AND FIGURES
I have many criticisms of Comhaltas , but they are IMO much more business like than the EFDSS.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 11:19 AM

As a long term member of EFDSS, the facts as far as I can ascertain are that Nick Hallam has been employed by EFDSS on a series of short term contracts, the second of which is curtainly up for renewal.

Apart from that, to read the previous posts, it would appear that the Borg have landed in North London and assimilated the EFDSS Board.

Once I know more, I shall feel free to comment.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 12:55 PM

It's 19th August 2010 and Nick Hallam is still listed as being on staff at the EFDSS nick.hallam@efdss.org.

quite frankley this endless speculation and innuendo is getting really rather tiresome.

"this, from John P above, should be reposted every other post:

"I posted this three days ago. Many of you apparently need to read it again and again and again until you understand the basic concepts involoved. In short, GET A CLUE!"

BTNG

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 01:27 PM

Perhaps PCTN (people close to Nick) could help?

L in C#

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 01:33 PM

"Perhaps PCTN (people close to Nick) could help?"

now there's an idea! We need facts here, some solid facts.
Oh, I know, we're all entitled to our opinions, but you know what they say about opinions....

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 01:35 PM

I've more than once started to post something on this thread, and more than once deleted it and thought "Let them get on with it". However, I find it disturbing that a number of people seem to think it fit that the EFDSS should plaster details of whatever has happened over their news section, or, indeed, report back to the world in general. As has been pointed out more than once, this is currently a private matter between employee and employer. What has not been pointed out by anyone is the fact that employment legislation exists to cover situations such as we are given to understand may exist. Legislation provides courses of action which must be followed when and if a course of employment is terminated. It also provides procedures which should be followed in the event of an appeal/dispute regarding the matter.In the circumstances it would be very remiss of the EFDSS to publish any information about the situation (whatever it may be), unprofessional, and possibly prejudicial to any action that either side might wish to take.

PS I've been a member of the Society for nearly 40 years - frightening thought- but I don't consider it gives me any right to blow by blow details of a private employee/employer matter at this stage.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 01:39 PM

Well sais Ms / Mr Surreysinger.

I suspect Nick would seek peace and quiet until things are sorted hence my earlier post

L in C#

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 05:15 PM

My feelings also Les ... and it's Ms {grins}

Irene

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 03:51 AM

I thought of suggesting a 'slag off the EFDSS' thread to divert tension away from here but I'm not sure that would be a good thing.

L in C#

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 04:19 AM

Might be an idea Les. How about a thread called "Protest at Show of Hands Israeli-backed attack on EFDSS". That might sop up the usual suspects for a while.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: IanC
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 04:25 AM

done.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 04:25 AM

Anybody else reminded of the cover picture from the old Penguin Book of English Folk Songs?

Starring the EFDSS as the second figure from the left on the front.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 04:55 AM

This a really weird thread!
A load of loonies banging on about something they don't understand...

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 05:37 AM

Good one Greg, I think:

"Protest at Show of Hands Israeli-backed attack on EFDSS"

could open a competition for the best anti EFDSS headline. We could do headlines in the style of different newspapers:

Cancer link to EFDSS Morris dancing fanatics - The Daily Mail

Topless dancers sacked in EFDSS dancing scandle - See page 3 for picies - The Sun.

As for the front of the English Book of Penguin Folk Songs - I like the way the bear seems to be giving the man with the stick intelligent consideration.

L in C#

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 06:57 AM

Anybody else reminded of the cover picture from the old Penguin Book of English Folk Songs?

Or, to give its proper title, The Dancing Bear by W F Witherington. The original hangs in The Walker Gallery in Liverpool, as credited on the back of the PBOEFS, but even so the first time I saw it in there I confess to coming over a little giddy. Either way I thing bear baiting and dancing bears are two different things.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:03 AM

"This a really weird thread!
A load of loonies banging on about something they don't understand."
to the contrary, I understand the EFDSS very well, in the past they have made some poor management decisions, over the last 5 years they appear to have been doing much better, and putting on good events, and being involved in some useful projects., Nic Hallam has playued a part along with others, so why is it unreasonable to ask why was he sacked?.
the EFDSS is supposed to promote folksong and dance on a national basis, years ago they did this by running Sidmouth, Whitby,Chippenham and Laycock festival and others,they also ran competitions, they had a national network of branches, and a shop situated in Cecil Sharp house, now , they are not involved in any of these activities,they have none of these things,apart from an online shop, these are facts.
they do not provide national music tuition on a national basis, however Comhaltas does provide tuition on a national basis.
whether one likes comhalts and competitions[i have my reservations]the competitions and examinations and the fleadhs bring in considerable revenue:fact.
Ralphie,instead of throwing insults around, you would do better as I am doing to stick to facts.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:26 AM

Someone should make a film of this thread (probably Ken Russell).

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:43 AM

GSS:
Nic Hallam has playued a part along with others, so why is it unreasonable to ask why was he sacked?

How would you like all the folk club organizers who haven't booked you to post here saying why not?

Think about what you're asking.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Bloke from Poole
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 07:45 AM

instead of throwing insults around, you would do better as I am doing to stick to facts.

Sticking to facts is always a good idea.

Apart from anything else, you get to choose the facts that you want to to stick to, and ignore the ones that you don't.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 12:14 PM

These are my facts, if you don't like them I have others

L in C#

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 01:32 PM

Several people here should go and get fact.

(Cheap, I know, but this thread has more farce than Brian Rix's entire career)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 01:57 PM

Hi Ralphie!

Can I use your slogan for my T-shirt?

I must be a looney...

I don't understand the EFDSS!

Ta muchly,

Matthew

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 09:57 AM

refresh

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 02:03 PM

Refresh? Why, for God's sake?

The EFDSS has now issued an interim statement on the Nick Hallam matter, saying what many of us had already pointed out, that they can't discuss what is a private matter between the Society and an employee. Presumably when the matter is settled they will make a further statement. In the meantime there is no point in discussing it further on here.

If you want a discussion about the EFDSS then start another thread, although I should have thought there have been enough of these already. But please don't go on about festivals or competitions, those topics have already been thoroughly discussed previously.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Uncle Rumpo
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 02:18 PM

Blimey..

there weren't this much fuss to get me reinstated
when I got fired
from Butlins back in 1983.

Good job no one else wanted to replace me
sweeping out around the bins at the back of the main cafeteria...

They offered to take me back
and even promote me to washing up as well
before I'd even got on the coach back home...

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 02:50 PM

refresh ,why for gods sake?
well, Howard so that people can see there is a petition and sign it if they want to, we live in a democracy, people are entitled to different opinions, nobody is forced to sign a petition, on the other hand the people that put the petition online, probably want it publicised ., if not they will probably ask for this thread to be closed

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 03:05 PM

While there is a privacy issue, there is also a matter of public importance - namely the impact of whatever is behind the assertion that the departing officer failed to understand the organisation, when many seem to think that he plainly did and was very instrumental in its preservation and progress. The institution itself is of public importance being a repository of our cultural heritage, so its survival and progress, and things that impact that survival and progress are or public importance too.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 03:41 PM

I'd forgotten about the petition. That has rather dropped out of the discussion. I suspect anyone coming to the thread in response to Dick's "refresh" would have had to go right back to the beginning to learn about the petition.

Has the person who started the petition identified themselves yet?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 04:02 PM

why should they, Howard?
please go back to the beginning and if you want sign the petition.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 07:35 AM

OTOH, why shouldn't they identify themselves? What has Folkfan got to hide. You can't ask EFDSS to conduct their affairs in public while not expecting the same of the author of a petition against it's decisions

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 09:24 AM

well it aint me, manitas

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 12:45 PM

manitas,
i have no idea of your identity , apart from the fact that you have some connection with LTS, So you to use the mantle of anonymity, [as I do] that is reasonable,[but I frequently sign myself Dick Miles, thus: everyone knows who GSS is]why? is it not reasonable that the author of the petition remains anonymous.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 01:59 PM

I would turn the question around? Why should the person starting the petition feel the need to remain anonymous?

They may have good reasons - perhaps they are employed by the EFDSS or serve on the committee or are otherwise closely involved, and fear repercussions. Nevertheless their anonymity raises questions, and suspicions that they may have a hidden agenda.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 02:39 PM

maybe, maybe not, why not just think about the question without seeing conspiracies, and let people sign if they want to, I have heard about a big improvement in the last 5 years, NICK has played a part in this with a number of other people, it seems an ungracious way to thank somebody, by sacking them, and saying what they have said.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Uncle Rumpo
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 02:53 PM

"it seems an ungracious way to thank somebody, by sacking them, and saying what they have said"

.. wouldn't be the first or last time that kind of injustice is inflicted on good valuable people
in the ruthlessly capricious/vindictive Arts and Community Projects employment sector...

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 03:18 PM

That's right, and not just in the Arts sector. It's a rough world out there and it's not always fair.

Besides, we don't know for certain what was said, because both parties are understandably refusing to debate this in public. All we have is an unsubstantiated comment quoted in the original petition by someone anonymous. Perhaps it's completely accurate, or perhaps it's inaccurate or taken out of context - we simply don't know.

I very much doubt whether any public statement will contain anything other than anodyne comments, and based on my own recent experience any settlement may well be covered by a confidentiality clause so its unlikely that we'll ever know for certain, although bits may leak out via "friends of friends".

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 03:25 PM

This discussion reminds me of the Brass Eye episode about peodophilia which was broadcast and then shot down by numerous do-gooders, 96% of whom had never seen it. Except in this case, I'd suggest that the amount of people ignorantly hypothesising about why Nick was sacked (on both sides of the argument) is far higher than 96%.

But I tell you this, if he was sacked for throwing stones at an immigrant then we should string him up!

But if he was sacked for stopping a BNP man throwing stones at an immigrant, then he should be made a Knight!

All! Or nothing! But in complete ignorance!

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mayomick
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 06:14 PM

Have any of you considered that this might all be a big wind-up? It could be all part of a slick marketing strategy devised by Hallam himself to get the EFDSS much-needed publicity .They could be up to the same tricks as the jokers at the Wookey Holes Cave theme park in Somerset. Have people been following it?

"Painting your face green and dressing in a witch's costume might be an effective enough disguise for most people, but not Fiona Robertson.
Robertson chucked a sickie to audition for Britain's most popular TV talent show, The X-Factor, in April but was recognised by her bosses yesterday when pictures of her singing a number from hit musical Wicked were used to promote the show's forthcoming season.
The giveaway? The 25-year-old children's entertainer was wearing her work uniform."
For the full story just follow this magic blue clicky link I have created to the Green Witch story :
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/green-but-not-sick-employee-busted-on-tv-show-20100820-12w43.html?from=smh_sb

The Wookey Caves theme park crowd are now inviting people to contact them to help them decide if Fionna should get the sack or not .
Daniel Medley, Director of Wookey Hole Caves told the press ,
'I was genuinely shocked when I saw our Witch in the papers, she was even wearing her Wookey Witch costume! And to think she may have taken a day's sick leave as well to attend the audition, this is just totally unacceptable and we are considering disciplinary action'.

This is from the Wookey Witch website .
"Bosses are making up their mind whether to sack the Witch of Wookey or to let her stay in post for the rest of her contract – we want you to help us decide – should the Witch of Wookey stay or should she go????

Vote for the Wookey Witch – should she stay or should she go? You decide….."
http://www.wookey.co.uk/web/great-witch-sacking-–-not-again

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 06:44 AM

Dick, I am not really anonymous and I can be contacted by PM. Folkfan can't be contacted at all - I tried the link on the petition page.

I'm pretty sure my identity has been revealed on the forum before but if you really need to know without a search then I am Paul Draper of London and I am an EFDSS member.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 09:35 AM

There's a new development in this story today - EFDSS temporary maketing assistant post announced. The background info puts some perspective on what they're generally up to as well.
Ken

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 10:52 AM

Ken said:-
There's a new development in this story today - EFDSS temporary maketing assistant post announced. The background info puts some perspective on what they're generally up to as well.
Ken

Here it is as a press release /job advert circular. I reproduce it in full below. It sounds like it might be a nice quiet job, not in the least controversial from what I have read on this thread:-

The EFDSS have announced a vacancy for a temporary marketing assistant.

See http://www.efdss.org/front/vacancies/vacancies/214217

ENGLISH FOLK DANCE AND SONG SOCIETY
TEMPORARY MARKETING ASSISTANT
(2-3 DAYS PER WEEK, DEPENDING ON WORKLOAD)

BACKGROUND INFORMATION

The EFDSS is a national folk arts development organisation. It is multi-faceted being a membership society with nearly 4000 members, an arts venue (Cecil Sharp House), an education, training and development agency, a publisher, an advocate and lobbyist, and the custodian of the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, which is the only dedicated folk arts library and archive in the UK.

The Society is going through a major period of change. It was reviewed and restructured in 2007 with the objective of re-positioning itself as the leading folk arts agency in England.

To meet the aim of reviving the Society we are increasing and diversifying our activities to bring the folk arts to a wider public. During the past two years the Society has:-

• Received a grant of £154k from the Heritage Lottery Fund for a major archiving and national education project using six of the song collections in our archive (Take Six project).
• Introduced its own regular programme of events at Cecil Sharp House including The Irrepressible Tradition music season, showcasing the best new talent on the folk music circuit.
• Worked with partners to produce events e.g. Mary Neal Project, National Gallery, Sadler's Wells, BFI, Miles of Smiles, The Local, The London Gypsy Orchestra.
• 'EFDSS on the Move' – supporting programmes at the Cambridge, Sidmouth and Furness Folk Festivals, summer 2009.
• Introduced a Family Friendly programme of events.
• Invited external programmers such as BBC 3 broadcaster Verity Sharp, who curated 'Apple Day' in October 2009.
• Developed a visual arts programme.
• Developed a professional development programme including the appointment of an artist-in-residence post (visual artist) and run a choreographic project for professional choreographers on morris and contemporary dance forms.
• Expanded our education programme into new contexts and areas and is developing opportunities for training teachers in the folk arts.

Over the next 5 years EFDSS will continue to develop -
• Cecil Sharp House as the folk arts centre in London.
• Outreach and education programmes to impact on the national curriculum and the training of music and dance artists and teachers.
• Advocacy and lobbying on behalf of the folk arts working in association with other folk arts agencies and organisations.
• Develop partnerships with a broad range of organisations to attract new audiences and to widen the profile of the Society.
• Prepare for a major capital project to provide the library with increased and climatically suitable space for its ever growing collections.

In October 2009 EFDSS became a Regularly Funded Organisation of Arts Council England's Music Department. The Society is now looking to a whole new area of development as the Folk Development Agency for England and as part of this process is developing the Marketing Department to communicate the aims of the Society and to market the EFDSS programme of events and activities; both at Cecil Sharp House and beyond, to both a folk and a non-folk audience.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 11:00 AM

That's the background info on the organization. The position opening is for an assistant to the Marketing Administrator, with these duties (available at the link Vic posted):

JOB DESCRIPTION

Job Title: Temporary Marketing Assistant (2-3 days per week)

Based at: Cecil Sharp House, 2 Regent's Park Road, London, NW1 7AY

Responsible to: Marketing Manager

Responsible for: Volunteer Marketing Assistants

Summary Job Purpose: Assisting the EFDSS Marketing Manager by providing general administrative
support for marketing of EFDSS, all of its programmes, activities and projects.

KEY RESPONSIBILITIES:

• Compiling monthly 'What's On' listings of events at Cecil Sharp House.
• Adding listings of EFDSS' events and activities to online listings sites.
• Adding regional member group's events to the EFDSS website.
• Updating and compiling databases.
• Co-ordinating and implementing mail outs - recruiting volunteers to assist with this when needed.
• Designing of both digital and paper marketing materials on request of the Marketing Manager.
• Carrying out research for the 'Folk Song a Day' online resource and other projects around
increasing public awareness of the folk music and dance sector.
• Working with the Education team to update and create Education databases and assist with
Education mail outs.
• Assisting the Society and Marketing Administrator with the distribution and creation of print and
posters around Cecil Sharp House.
• Be an Ambassador for the Society.
• Carry out any other duties that may be reasonably requested.

PERSON SPECIFICATION

Essential:
• Computer and internet literate.
• An understanding of social media and online marketing.
• Ability to multi-task.
• Understanding of Microsoft Word and Excel.
• Excellent verbal and written communication skills.
• Good people person and a team player.
• Administrative experience in a similar role within the arts or PR industries.

Desirable:
• Interest in folk arts, music, dance, arts education and participatory arts.
• A keen eye for design and an understanding of print media.
• Competence using Adobe Photoshop or other design packages.

Qualities:
• Positive, enthusiastic, proactive and keen to use your own initiative in an extremely busy fast-moving
team environment.
• Attention to detail.
• Resilience – ability to cope well with change and challenge.

CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT

Salary: £18,000 pro rata.

Hours: 2-3 days per week depending on workload.

Term: This post is fixed term until Friday 17th December 2010.

Probation: This post carries a 1 month probation period.

HOW TO APPLY

Applicants should complete the EFDSS application form, CVs will not be accepted. Applications can be
made by e-mail to recruitment@efdss.org or by post to:

Rosie Pagan
Operations Director
EFDSS
Cecil Sharp House
2 Regent's Park Road
London, NW1 7AY

Closing date is 5.30pm on Wed 8th September. Interviews will be held at Cecil Sharp House on Friday
Thurs 16th September.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 11:05 AM

Rosie Pagan? Is that a made-up name???

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Folknacious
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 11:07 AM

events at Cecil Sharp House

BBC 3 broadcaster Verity Sharp

Sudden revalationary thought. Are they by any chance related? Folkie dynasties and all that.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 08:37 AM

An email circular from the prominent Folk/Roots/World music agency Frusion - www.frusion.co.uk - informs that Nick Hallam has now joined them, at least in the short term. The relevant part of the circular says:-
Hello good morning or maybe good afternoon if you've got round to opening your email late in he day ( happens to us too!) or good evening if you're reading this whilst grabbing a glass or two :-)

Its time to introduce to you our new agent ( and a couple of new acts too! ) Mr Nick Hallam, a great guy and until recently working in the UK at EFDSS , and before that at a number of excellent UK venues including De Montfort Hall , Royal and Derngate ..well the list goes on.

The good news is that Nick is a great arts professional well used to the vagaries of working in venues and with a great overview of what it takes to put on a great show. His specialism is English Folk , but he goes far beyond that of course in working with us here at Frusion. Though all of the acts you can of course still talk to me about , your main man is Nick for these artists.

A couple of the acts you'll see "in association with Nick Hallam" and these artists have been brought to Frusion by Nick as he will be forming his own agency .. so this being the start we've got them under the Frusion banner so you'll get the normal deal from us with all the shows serviced from Frusion's offices in the UK , it makes no difference at all to how we work. ( in fact in the next couple of months watch out for Nick's own website and brand springing up very soon! )

In particular, he will be responsible for working with O'Hooley & Tidow and Hannah James and Sam Sweeney
You can email Nick by clicking here

------------Link fixed. JoeClone

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 09:34 AM

"url not found"

I have no idea who Nick Hallam is, nor do I care.

What astonishes me is that anyone here thinks they have should a say in any employer/employee relations of any organisation. I am similarly concerned that all this results from what is, frankly, hearsay.

Where on this board, or elsewhere, did Hallam, personally, make this complaint?

Frankly, if any employee chooses to ask, encourage, or suborn others to raise a petition on their behalf – I would sack them for that alone.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 09:48 AM

I don't think there is any need to go through the arguments again, GUEST, Morris-ey. Thanks to Vic for posting the news; I'm glad to hear that Nick Hallam's talents are being well used in his new position, and I wish him every success in the post.

Matthew

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 09:50 AM

Morris-ey

The EFDSS is the titular flagship organisation of English folk music (and dance) so its direction is a matter of legitimate concern.

If the employment decisions of such an organisation give cause for concern about its policies and priorities within that remit then that too is a matter of legitimate concern.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 10:25 AM

Richard

What do you mean by "a matter of legitimate concern"?

Do/did you employ this person?

Are/were you legally entitled to be consulted as to his employment or dismissal?

Do you normally involve yourself in employment issues based on hearsay?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 10:53 AM

url not found

Yes, well though most sources could cope with just the "www" abberviation, Mudcat cannot so you need the full http://www.frusion.co.uk/

Not that you will find anything about Nick Hallam on that site, as Nick's employment there seems to be a temporary arrangement until he gets his own business fully set up.

Good luck to him in this venture.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 11:57 AM

It is a matter of legitimate concern to the folk constituency. It isn't simply a matter of private employment law.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Jimmy Nail
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:10 PM

What business is this of mine? Why did you bother to post it on a website I may accidentally look at? Now, I have no choice but to get very self-righteous about the whole thing.

Hmmph.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 12:14 PM

If anyone else feels they have something to add, please would they check this first.

Matthew

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 04:28 PM

Your point, Matthew, precisely?

The EFDSS is a registered charity number 305999. The concept behind the various advantages that attach to being of charitable status is public benefit (of various kinds, subject to the recent Charities Act). The way in which the charity serves the public and its perspectives on the arts within (in this case) those bounds are therefore matters of legitimate public concern.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 05:00 PM

Richard Bridge wrote:-

"Your point, Matthew, precisely?"

My point was that this argument is over; adding to it doesn't help anyone. This thread has passed on. It has expired. This is a dead topic.

Nick Hallam has moved on. The EDFSS will go on without him. Good luck to them both.

It doesn't matter now who was right. Raise the issue by all means at the AGM if you are a member of the Society, but otherwise please let it drop.

Matthew

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 05:12 PM

why are you so insistent that it should be dropped?
it doesnt matter now who was right?

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 06:16 PM

For the reasons I set out above the reasons of the EFDSS impact its public function and so are of legitimate public concern.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 02:47 AM

RB said: "The EFDSS is a registered charity... The way in which the charity serves the public and its perspectives on the arts within (in this case) those bounds are therefore matters of legitimate public concern."

Not convinced (as in this case) this assertion can be extended to include internal human resourcing issues. If we were talking major policy change, maybe. In any case, the way forward is to become a paying member and air concerns through the appropriate channels.

As to the specifics, if I was NH, an internet forum and all that entails would be the last place I'd want them chewed over.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 02:51 AM

The key question, Guest, would seem to be whether the end of the appointment does involve a change of direction of the charity, or a continuation in a questionable direction. That question would seem to be raised by the stated references to "not understanding the organisation" or whatever the exact quote so far above was.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 03:21 AM

It does not matter whether an organisation is a charity or not, the simple fact is you have no entitlement to be consulted about who they hire or fire.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 03:54 AM

Many Mudcatters have been members of EFDSS for most of their lives, so they have a feeling of "ownership" of the organisation. You can't blame them for being curious about the reason for the sacking of Nick Hallam, even though I agree that the subject is not appropriate for open discussion on an Internet forum.
-Joe-

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 03:55 AM

Are you going to raise the matter at the AGM? It's in November so there's probably still time to become a member and propose a motion.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Old Vermin
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 05:51 AM

From, I think, Richard Bridge "EFDSS is the titular flagship organisation of English folk music (and dance)"

Much amused at the idea of the stuff I do having a flagship.

The metaphor suggests that we are sailing wayward dinghies on varying courses.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 06:55 AM

Its a membership organisation so we (I am a member)do have more of a say - but the lines get blurred. We dont have a say in operational day to day matters but have an input into direction and overall policy. Yes I also think the specifics of hiring and firing are not an appropriate subject for net forums
Spleen Cringe/Nigel

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Alan Day
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 07:13 AM

Having read most of the postings on this subject I cannot understand why this discussion is rolling on rudderless.
From what I understand of it all Nick Hallam was employed on a short term contract which he served admirably. At the end of the contract, that was it. He was not sacked and no new contract was offered, so what. The EFDSS decided that there was no need to create another contract and they are perfectly entitled to do that as his employer. Until someone proves to me that the EFDSS are not doing a good job ,I am happy to see them get on with it. There seems to be more
activity and drive about the current board and at some point you have to accept that they are doing the job to the best of their abilities, if you take the opposite view then put yourself forward for election, or at least voice your opposition to the way it is being run to those in charge.
Al

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 08:31 AM

>> Having read most of the postings on this subject I cannot understand why this discussion is rolling on rudderless.
Or me, Al. Nothing new has been raised in any of the posts added in the last few days, and things have rolled on in the world. If the parties concerned most intimately - ie ex-employee and employer - have not taken it to appeal, or beyond, then this really is flogging a dead horse pointlessly. (Interestingly enough, I think the marketing post that was advertised at the time of Nick Hallam's departure was _not_ a like-for-like replacement, which smacks more of organisational reform/reorganisation. At the end of the day a short term post is just that .. a temporary one)

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 09:28 AM

Here's the quote about the reason for termination or non-renewal (a you please): "because he "does not understand the organisation and what it's about.""

Many seem to have felt that he understood it very well, and that the alleged reason therefore smacked of a rejection of the nature of the work he had done.

If that is so then there is a question of the direction of the organisation. That is not just an issue for members, but is a matter of wider relevance since charities enjoy benefits and have obligations as matters of public law.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 09:46 AM

I agree,Richard.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 09:51 AM

What is the source of that quote?

The direction of the organisation is quite separate from the issue of who does or does not work there.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 09:54 AM

Richard - who said that? It's a third person quote, taken from a petition set up by someone who didn't even put their own name to the petition, all of which has contributed to the existence of this thread. It's not a comment made in public by any of the parties to the events in question, and, in my books, is hearsay. Until such time as I hear something publicly expressed by any of the parties who DO know something about the events concerned first hand I would not dream of starting to criticise, or express an opinion on the matter. Incidentally, are you actually a member of the EFDSS ... if so, go give your happorth at the AGM.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Alan Day
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 12:07 PM

Richard and Dick the reasons for your postings regarding EFDSS direction is understood and your concerns, but as Surrey Singer says there is no firm evidence of any wrong doing on any ones part. If this information came from anywhere I would suspect that there would be a strong possibility that NH was a bit miffed at not getting his contract renewed and voiced that to somebody.This is only speculation however and not based on any fact.
Al

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: banjoman
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 06:42 AM

I happen to know of one person who was interviewed for the recently advertised post. No result advised.
However, having spent some time reading through this thread, I have to conclude that for once I completely concur with the views of Richard Bridge. There is a lot wrong with EFDSS and I feel that unless things alter then the Charity Commissioners may start to have a close look at how it runs

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 06:49 AM

banjoman: if you think there is enough wrong with the EFDSS to make the Charity Commisioners look into it, why not tell us what your concerns are? Vague insinuations and mutterings don't do a lot for this situation, if it is indeed a situation. Put your money where your mouth is.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: Alan Day
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 07:00 AM

I agree with you Greg, this posting is not one of concern of direction as voiced by Richard and what most of us would agree with,it seems to be a posting to stir up problems for the EFDSS which may have no substance.
Please list what you are concerned about and the facts so that we can all make a judgement.
Al

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 07:08 AM

Watching from a distance, I have to say that I'm with Alan and Greg. Richard B spouts a good deal of nonsense.

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Subject: RE: EFDSS sacking of Nick Hallam - wtf?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 07:37 AM

Nick is now a Director at Albion Folk Ltd in Northampton so he got on his bike. Good luck to the venture!

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