BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 05:18 PM

'concerened', how come your spelling improved markedly in your last outburst (not sure what an "apropriouse epithet" is though). Did you get someone else to write it for you?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 05:07 PM

so, stu, it is not evol... but paele.... biologists.
that does not stop them being evolutionists does it?
clades?- is that from cladistics, which in my simple way, is the study of different organisms displaying similarities, of which darwinists read common descent and creationists read common design?
somewhat like a bike , a car ,an articulated truck, and an aircraft.
they all evolved from a simple wheel and progressed up the evolutionary pathway and eventually took to the air!
you can of course accuse me of gross ignorance, but alternately you could [maybe] provide actual evidence of the [continuously changing] theory which you assert is evidenced.
full marks though for enthusiastically promoting what you believe the evidence shows you. I guess we can all take that as an example to follow.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 04:38 PM

Dave, until a few hours ago I had been completely ignoring you on Mudcat, a policy that has served me well for a long time. It's good to be reminded why.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 04:00 PM

You were wrong. All good scientists would admit their error.

Absolutely. Hence my comment

Maybe it is the network connection or maybe Mudcat workload fluctuates but I just waited over 3 minutes (timed on a Lorus watch if you need to know) and then cancelled the load. I usually wait a minute or so before deciding that something is wrong and aborting.

Not your problem

While never actually stating it was your 'fault', I said all along that I can see how you thought it was implied so I qualified it with the 'maybe's' as detailed above. What is there not to understand there? But I do understand that when one is looking for a fight one will always try to provoke one. Just not working here I'm afraid:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 02:06 PM

At Orgreave eh?

We noticed a load of agitators at the back shouting "Charge!" And the police were quite bemused to see us turn and beat the crap out of the Socialist Workers Party idiots hijacking and exacerbating our genuine grievance.

Obviously, you weren't there, but I like to think you was. I left before the riot act was read out and take no pride in the mess that followed, but giving outside agitators a good hiding was almost as good as when we were queuing for food parcels and a photographer was on the other side of the road snapping away. I was one of those who held him whilst we spoilt his film and smashed his camera. Didn't hurt him, but the leader in the Sun the following day spoke of the thugs who attacked him.

Ah never mind. Once I saw my barbecued donkey on the road to Damascus, I decided being a filthy rotten capitalist allowed for a better vintage of pinot. Never looked back...

Be careful with your fantasy old chap. Some of us had to live them out for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 01:16 PM

The inadequacy of your broadnband connection is a side issue and is, indeed, not my problem. The fact that both you and your Messiah (just joining in the joke) claimed that I had provided a link that only went to the thread not the specific post and implied that I was incompetent and unscientific for doing so is my problem. You were wrong. All good scientists would admit their error.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 10:35 AM

So, selected references eh? No mention of the later comment that it was not your problem? Ah well. I can live with that and at least the evidence is all in the same place for all to see. As to

You are, are you not, the Chief Disciple of the self appointed Messiah Steve?

No, Bryan, it is made up. Just as you are not really a snail and Ian is not really a Musket.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 10:30 AM

Gmometic: pardon me, but you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit..

Absolutely not, dear Conc. If you was to tell me you DID give a shit I would not believe a word of it. In fact, if you were to tell me it was Tuesday I would have severe doubts. Tell you what I will do, since you seem to have communication issues, I will make it easy for you to understand.

I believe that every claim you have made on here is untrue. Let us go through a few of the more extreme.

1. You are intelligent.
2. You care about other people.
3. You were a vice-Admiral in the Tanzanian navy.
4. You are ordained.
5. You chaired a meeting in Brussels.
6. You have 2 masters degrees from Oxford.

There are a shed load of others but I think you may get the gist. I really do know that you could not care less but, just to prove what a phoney I am, how about you substantiate any single claim that you have made with some sort of evidence.

We all know that you are talking bollocks. We know that you know that you are talking bollocks. I, for one, am unsure of your motives in telling such ridiculous tales but, as I said before, it does amuse me. So please carry on with the charade for as long as you like. I will tire of it eventually but I am sure you will realise that we are all taking the piss before that.

Or maybe not?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 10:25 AM

Dave the Gnome

How does that fit in with automatically assuming it was your fault?

Steve "Evolution is true." Shaw

Anyone can check the ref if they really want to, but Gastropodus insensibilitis made it very difficult to do because all he did was quote a thread that was about fourteen miles long. Jaysus, you just can't get the bloody staff...

Dave the Gnome

No axe to grind here but must correct your assertion that I linked directly to your post within that thread.

The link you provide, in Firefox 24.0 anyway, simply opens the whole thread without linking to the post in question. The thread being huge takes ages to load and paging through it can take time to find what you are looking for. I suggest that, like all good scientists, you test your theories in a number of scenarios before stating them as fact.

I did test it. It does work (on a decent ISP). End of.

And who do you reckon my 'master' is?

You are, are you not, the Chief Disciple of the self appointed Messiah Steve? You do seem to follow his lead in all things.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist formally known as concerened
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 10:09 AM

Now, now wussget, is that the way they teach you to argue in the left wing Tory party..what a load of crap!!I have told you before about using apropriouse epithets.

By the way,never got the habit of been a fence sitter: here is just some of the direct action I have been involved in:

1. I Was on the original Aldermarston march
2. I have been on more demos than you have had hot dinners,
3. fought the BNP in several engagements,
4. was at Orgreave scrapping with the coppers
5. was on the march for jobs,
6. was an activist against your mates poll tax,and loads more.

Makes your friendly chats with your tame mp look a bit parochial dont it you beige phony? away back to your slippers and crossword and leave real work to proper socialists

Left wing Tory, that is like calling gnomet a tall dwarf.Your stance? is really hedging your bets, also that is the act of a real coward.

When will you smug, ginger, cake eating,light programme listening, telegraph readers get of your fat asses and realise:

Organised labour has got, never had and never will have nothing in common with capital.

Keep having your friendly chats with the enemy, wussyget,and moving motions, you will get a cosy feel/feeling and that is all.

Gmometic: pardon me, but you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a shit..oh and keep talking, someday you may, I said may, say something intelligent..

Hey Shitrod.!! I would like to leave you with one thought...but I am a little unsure you would have anywhere to put it.

any more for anymore?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:42 AM

Indeed and a valuable lesson to you and your master that automatically assuming that I am the one at fault is not the best policy.

I refer you to my comment immediately before that post

Not your problem I know

How does that fit in with automatically assuming it was your fault? And who do you reckon my 'master' is?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:36 AM

BTW - Lots of browsers are set to timeout after a few seconds waiting - As does my IE8 on the same machine. It never gets further than some posts on the 13th of August before hanging with "Done, but with errors on page". This is part of the reason that Max introduced the breakdown of threads into bite-sized pieces. It is a good feature and, for future reference, well worth using.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:35 AM

Very nice Keith but totally irrelevant. The accusation was that the link only pointed to the thread not the post and that I was at fault for not testing it. I had tested it. It does work.

Absolutely nothing to do with the point in discussion of course but a good diversionary escapade anyway.
Indeed and a valuable lesson to you and your master that automatically assuming that I am the one at fault is not the best policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 09:19 AM

it took about 1min 40secs

Maybe it is the network connection or maybe Mudcat workload fluctuates but I just waited over 3 minutes (timed on a Lorus watch if you need to know) and then cancelled the load. I usually wait a minute or so before deciding that something is wrong and aborting.

Not your problem I know but don't assume everyone's connections are the same or our levels of concentration are as long as yours. Maybe going at a snail's pace gives you more patience :-)

Absolutely nothing to do with the point in discussion of course but a good diversionary escapade anyway.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 08:46 AM

thread.cfm?threadid=152125&messages=480&page=9#3565608

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 08:42 AM

None of those would make any difference.
It would load from a thread section as fast as clicking the "d" works.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 08:30 AM

Maybe I could, Keith. I could also have tested it under Internet Explorer, Safari, Chrome, Opera, iOS and Android but I didn't and I'm not going to.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 08:13 AM

You could link to the post in a numbered thread section instead of the whole thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 08:02 AM

Thank you for spelling my name right Dave.

I am using Firefox 24.0. I have just followed the link. It first opens the thread at the top while it downloads it. While it is downloading you will see "Transferring data from www.mudcat.org" in the bottom left hand corner. When it has finished it jumps to the relevant post. I admit that it took about 1min 40secs rather than the few seconds that I said. As you said, it's a huge thread. Sorry but there's nothing I can do about that; that's where the post is.

I did test it. It does work

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 07:32 AM

Sorry, Bryan (It is with a y isn't it?) No axe to grind here but must correct your assertion that I linked directly to your post within that thread.

The link you provide, in Firefox 24.0 anyway, simply opens the whole thread without linking to the post in question. The thread being huge takes ages to load and paging through it can take time to find what you are looking for. I suggest that, like all good scientists, you test your theories in a number of scenarios before stating them as fact.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 06:44 AM

Steve "Evolution is true." Shaw

Worry not, Dave. The last thing I ever worry about is the tits hereabouts having a go. It's such fun.

You didn't really pick up the spirit of the "Reinforcing respectful 'boundaries'" thread did you Steve?

As for Snailieboy (or girl?) praising the Lord and passing the ammunition when I admit to a mistake, well I should like him to recollect that no-one who posts here is quicker to admit to his blunders than yours truly.

"praising the Lord"? Do I detect a subtle plan to blacken my name by associating me with God botherers? Musket used a similar technique. Subtle? Steve? Nah, it doesn't work. I think he automatically assumes that anyone who dares to question his authority must be a creationist. Steve, I don't oppose you because I am among the Godly, I oppose you because you are promoting bad science. I must have blinked and missed it when you admitted your blunders.

As a matter of fact, in this case I was certainly not crowing about the truth of evolution (only a fool, actually, would deny the truth of evolution, but hey ho).

Shimrod
evolutionary scientists, like all true scientists, assign probabilities to their conclusions - and rarely, if ever, do they assign a probability of 100%.

Don(Wyziwyg)T

The scientist taking the data and questioning whether it is self consistent and logical and seeking peer review for whatever conclusions derive from it, and even when the data proves valid and fits all the criteria of the many disciplines it must satisfy, he does not speak of proof, truth, or completion.

Sorry guys but Steve thinks you are fools.

He was off on his hols and I was taking the piss by pretending his absence meant I could shout "EVOLUTION IS TRUE!!!" without him having a go back.

But you do say "Evolution is true." rather a lot. I've amended you name above. Is that a fair compromise?

Anyone can check the ref if they really want to, but Gastropodus insensibilitis made it very difficult to do because all he did was quote a thread that was about fourteen miles long. Jaysus, you just can't get the bloody staff...

No, Steve, I linked directly to your post within that thread. It takes a few seconds not twenty minutes. Always best to make sure you've got things right before blaming others.

Readers will observe that Steve has still avoided commenting on Stu's wise words that I quoted earlier "what is important is understanding what science is and how it works, and you don't need to be a scientist to know that. You do have to get off your arse do some work though to familiarise yourself with the philosophies and methodologies that make 'science' what it is, and explains how it's come to be practiced as it is and how it changes with time.

Good advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 06:18 AM

It'll never happen, Don.

There are some scenarios need considering here
1. It is a troll, in which case an idiot
2. It genuinely believes the postings, in which case an idiot
3. Thinks it will fool someone, in which case an idiot
4. Genuinely has done all these things but chooses to come across as an idiot, in which case successful or
5. Is an idiot

Whichever it is you are on a loser asking for sensible things like that. Just laugh at it and enjoy the show.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 05:46 AM

""I JUST NEW IT!!!! the arch fraud and poser wussget is a closet Tory!!!""

No closet, anonymous prick. Everybody on Mudcat knows I am a left wing Tory.

Instead of standing on the sidelines throwing shit, like a good little faux socialist, I put my efforts into persuading my Tory MP to vote for what is right and moderate.

Maybe that's a small part of the reason why she is opposing the second section of the "Transparency in Lobbying Bill".

And isn't it time YOU came out of the closet, instead of cowering behind your convenient cloak of anonymity like the dismal know nothing coward that you are?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stu
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 05:08 AM

"you will I am sure be presupposing that the geologic column is deposited from deep time ,rather than by flood ,though I feel sure local floods will be granted if needs be."

Speaking for the localities I'm working on at present, there is no evidence that these sediments were laid down in a single flood event. There are (as you suggest) local flood events but these occur as subordinate beds and are locally confined (seasonal floods in a semi-arid environment). One thing worth noting is that when working with sedimentology the rule of thumb is 'question everything', so pretty much every time a facies analysis is done the question of it's origin is revisited.


"OTOH for all the evolutionists out there looking for transitional forms, there seems to be a large lack"

They're palaeontologists and biologists, not evolutionists. There are plenty of transitional forms (in a sense every form is transitional), but I get your gist. In fact, you need to look at the literature more. We have plenty of forms that show the evolution of certain traits within clades (they're way to numerous for one person to know) and are transitional in the sense you mean, but the tree of life is a complex and wonderful construct (and it is a human construct, devised to help understand a number of natural processes) and there are thousands of years worth of work left to unravel it's intricacies.

For example, we now have pretty much identified the morphotype (body plan of a living organism) that gave rise to avians. We might (or might not) have the actual taxa but we need more data to tell, but we can say that a) flight did not evolve in avians, but in other dinosaurs before avians evolved b) These were small gliding and flying animals that had four wings and c) the two-winged condition of birds is probably derived. How brilliant is that?

Get down and dirty with the literature on any fossil lineage and you'll find discussions on how they evolved. It is complex subject area to be sure, but a fascinating all the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Oct 13 - 03:00 AM

It is boy, Messiah S. Brian, as on the Magic Roundabout but I seem to recall it may be spelt with a 'y'. I did notice, hence the comment about context. But you knew that of course :-)

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 07:03 PM

I said Musket, not Christianity.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 06:12 PM

Worry not, Dave. The last thing I ever worry about is the tits hereabouts having a go. It's such fun. As for Snailieboy (or girl?) praising the Lord and passing the ammunition when I admit to a mistake, well I should like him to recollect that no-one who posts here is quicker to admit to his blunders than yours truly. As a matter of fact, in this case I was certainly not crowing about the truth of evolution (only a fool, actually, would deny the truth of evolution, but hey ho). He was off on his hols and I was taking the piss by pretending his absence meant I could shout "EVOLUTION IS TRUE!!!" without him having a go back. Anyone can check the ref if they really want to, but Gastropodus insensibilitis made it very difficult to do because all he did was quote a thread that was about fourteen miles long. Jaysus, you just can't get the bloody staff...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 05:23 PM

To well capitalised, punctuated and spaced, Shimrod. You will never match good ol' Conc like that!

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 03:21 PM

Anyway, 'concerened', you went to Oxford University, did you? I can just imagine your eloquent letter of application:

"Hey Poxyford! I think yor all a bunch of clever dick tossers, lemme in to do a coarse!"

They must have been falling over themselves!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 02:05 PM

I thought you might like to know I am a real musket though.

Centuries out of date and wildly inaccurate?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 12:49 PM

"I certainly don't need a lesson in economics or politics from either you or wussget..I have a first in both subjects from Oxford."

Well, fancy that! Who would have believed it?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 12:42 PM

I thought you might like to know I am a real musket though.


Bloody err.. bang.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 12:04 PM

Anyone care to comment on Joseph Atwill's contention that Christianity and Jesus was made up by the Romans patterned after Tiberius Flavius other than to say he was just capitalizing on writing books, is not a legitimate scholar and is a liar? Bart Ehrman disagrees with Atwill and states that as a bible scholar he, himself, is not a Christian.

One of the arguments is that Rome had other stronger enemies than the Jews and why would Rome address the Jewish population this way?

I think that it could conceivably have an effect at pacifying the Jewish population at the time to get them to pay taxes (render unto Caesar) and "turn the other cheek" whereas they had no control over the Visagoths, Gauls, Vandals and Ostrogoths.

Bart Ehrman stakes his reputation on the fact that there is a historical Jesus and Atwill is not qualified academically, to make his statements. He claims that historical evidence is conclusive by off hand and non-propagandistic statements made by such figures as Paul. He asks, "How do you know Julius Caesar existed since no one was around at his time to offer physical evidence of his existence?" In other words, we only have historical evidence to support claims of this nature.

The problem here for me is that history is often distorted by well-intentioned scholars who claim credentials. Case in point, the Schlessinger/Zinn controversy about American history.

Future historians will undoubtably dispute the historical scholarship of today.

I don't think Atwill has been dismissed as easily as some Christian scholars would like to believe. We do have physical evidence for the Holocaust and the subjugation of the American Indians by white colonists. None for the existence of Jesus.

The problem is, for Atwill and others, who is this Jesus? Who has the definitive character traits of him? Is the King James version of the bible totally reliable and if so why? This Jesus is enigmatic in the same way that any god appears except to believers.

I have an open mind regarding the existence of a Jesus but am not convinced that the evidence presented is sufficient to say one way or another. Whether this Jesus is a god is an entirely different question.

Why is all this important? Because in the US and other places, foreign policy is determined by "believers" who claim to know things others don't and they are in governments and are often influential politicians. These erstwhile leaders often put us into war based on pseudo-biblical prophecy and fanatical ideas.

Discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 11:47 AM

This is so funny. I think Conc likes to believe we are taking it seriously sometimes. First Danny Kaye, then Ben Stiller then Conc. I was worried about encouraging him (Her? It? Shit?) but it has paid off dividends far beyond my imaginings. Keep 'em coming dear Conc. They will let you out eventually and we will miss those tragically comic ramblings.

Messiah S - Don't worry about people taking things out of context. These religious types do it all the time as has been demonstrated time and time again. Should I quote an eye for an eye or turn the other cheek at this point. I can't remember...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist formally known as concerened
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM

The above was I.
Oh...............I nearly forgot to add, shaw, if you are gonna be a smart ass, first be smart, or you are gonna end up just an ass..but you knew that anyway didn't you, you smug phony?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 11:37 AM

as you are about to embark on extensive dino research, stu, I guess you can get some credit for your soundbite that I aint out there looking for evidence. you will I am sure be presupposing that the geologic column is deposited from deep time ,rather than by flood ,though I feel sure local floods will be granted if needs be.
flood and associated geologic activity account for the general order in the fossil bearing strata in the creationist model.
in such a model such general order ,with some exceptions would be expected and this is what is found.
there are a number of examples easily found on creation.com, including of some supposed long gone , found alive and well and showing no signs of having evolved in the loooooong interim.
OTOH for all the evolutionists out there looking for transitional forms, there seems to be a large lack.
and science wrong? no but some scientists might well be.
know the mind of God?. well no ,unless of course he has revealed some things to us, as I believe he has.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 11:30 AM

I JUST NEW IT!!!! the arch fraud and poser wussget is a closet Tory!!!


"I never needed to indulge in self aggrandisement by inventing spurious credentials, and imagined skills, having paid my own way by constant employment, without a gap from 1957 till 2006" Well why would you?

Typical smug Tory response, you say that like you have done some thing special.Millions of people go to work and don't shout about it from the rooftops.I guess from your level of intelligence special skills or credentials are completely superfluous to your requirements.

I have nothing against shelf stacker or janitors as workers in the great scheme of things, but you hardly do earth shattering things as I do.

Speaking as revolutionary socialist I can say the the grocers daughter was a great states person,, only thing was she was on the wrong side..compared to this lot she was left wing..and that does include millibland and his ginger party,

Shimplop....thank'ee but I have had a share of patronising today..I certainly don't need a lesson in economics or politics from either you or wussget..I have a first in both subjects from Oxford.

I would like to see things from your point of view but I cant get my head that far up my arse!!

this is to easy..just like shooting fish in a barrell

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 11:25 AM

Well done, Musket. You're getting almost as good at using gratuitous abuse as a substitute for intelligent debate as Steve.

By the way, I'm not really a snail. TheSnail is simply my Mudcat nickname. Thought you ought to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 11:19 AM

Steve Shaw

Ah yes, indeed I did! (took me 20 minutes to find it and I don't recommend the search).

I suggest you get a new service provider. It shouldn't have taken 20 minutes to follow the link I gave you.

Now do apprise us of the context of that remark of mine, which was directed at you purely as a richly-deserved piss-take!

Really? As an amplification of your usual mantra, it sounds more as if you were taking the piss out of yourself.

But yes, I did say it. Guilty as charged, yerronner...

Historic day. Steve Shaw admits he's wrong about something.

Anyway, now we've got that out of the way, perhaps you' like to respond to the quotes from Stu and Shimrod I posted earlier. To save you spending twenty minutes looking for it, here's the post thread.cfm?threadid=152125&messages=456#3565608.

Stu and Shimrod

In that post, I quote examples of good scientific thinking from the two of you. Steve responded with "You're either prattling away at me or prattling away about you flavour-of-the-month philosopher, you sad thing you." Seems he doesn't think much of your contributions. He now says "I was referring to that falsifiability chap that he's wont to rattle on about." He means Sir Karl Popper, probably the greatest philosopher of science of the twentieth century and originator of the concept of falsifiability. Steve seems to think he knows better.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 09:41 AM

I was referring to that falsifiability chap that he's wont to rattle on about. All Mudcat philosophers are exempt!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,musket smiling
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 09:09 AM

How to take it?

With a smile.

I find the same smug satisfied smile that God Botherers hand out to be the best smile. It works for them, even when defending fantasy against reliable facts.

Put in the immortal words of Corporal Jones.   The fuzzy wuzzies don't like it up'em!

You see, the snail likes a bit of Jesus in his philosophy. That's all. And like religion, snails leave a smeary mess wherever they go. Oh yes, it glistens but eventually you see how sticky yet insubstantial it really is.

(Come on. Be fair. Not bad considering I have to go now and haven't time to flesh out a decent analogy.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stu
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 09:05 AM

Nor me!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 08:46 AM

"Still, it gave you a handy excuse to ignore the quotes from Stu and Shimrod neither of whom I would describe as "flavour-of-the-month philosopher"."

I'm not sure how to take that!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 08:22 AM

Ah yes, indeed I did! (took me 20 minutes to find it and I don't recommend the search).

Now do apprise us of the context of that remark of mine, which was directed at you purely as a richly-deserved piss-take! But yes, I did say it. Guilty as charged, yerronner...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 06:58 AM

Steve "EVOLUTION IS TRUE! EVOLUTION IS TRUE! EVOLUTION IS TRUE!" Shaw (got it right that time)
Don't think I've ever said that three times in a row or included an exclamation mark

Er, yes you did.

(scientific observation must be accurately recorded in order for it to be useful).

Very true and it's always best to check your facts before implying that others haven't checked theirs. Ignoring facts that don't fit your thesis isn't very scientific either. Still, it gave you a handy excuse to ignore the quotes from Stu and Shimrod neither of whom I would describe as "flavour-of-the-month philosopher".

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 06:35 AM

""when it is rather a case of competing ideas which interpret the data variously.""

You certainly got that right Pete!

two methods of interpreting data!!

The scientist taking the data and questioning whether it is self consistent and logical and seeking peer review for whatever conclusions derive from it, and even when the data proves valid and fits all the criteria of the many disciplines it must satisfy, he does not speak of proof, truth, or completion. He is open to the idea that his conclusions may be superceded as new data emerges.

The Creationist "knows" God did it 6000 years ago in seven days and makes the data fit that preconception by ignoring or suppressing any inconvenient evidence to the contrary.

You deviously skirt round the fact that your claim of scientists drawing conclusions based upon preconceptions falls at the very first hurdle.

Tell me Pete, what preconceptions do you suppose the devout Christian, Charles Darwin, acted upon? THERE WAS NO PRECURSOR, so his conclusions were based purely upon the evidence which he found in his explorations, and being a Christian, he agonised for years before publishing.

How does this fit with your preconceptions of what scientists do, or are?

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stu
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 05:43 AM

"and why can I not "invoke" the laws of probability"

Because you're cherrypicking which parts of science to believe according to your belief system. You are starting with a premise and shoehorning certain theories to fit, rather than observing something and working backwards to find out why/how etc and then developing a theory from that. That's fine, but it ain't science.

"whilst acknowledging that there is apparently an order in the fossils , it is not as clearcut as you might like to think, and specimens have been moved in position as new fossil discoveries are unearthed."

Not as clearcut as I like to think? Really? You need to tell me more about this, I'm just about to undertake an extended period of research on dinosaurs and thought I understood how the fossil record was laid down and how palaeontologists and geologists use these fossils in a myriad of ways. Explain this please!

"I have no doubt that in the event of spectacular discoveries in the fossils coming to light, you will only fall back on your pious pronouncements of science never assuming anything, just as you now do with the dino discoveries."

I don't do pious Pete, not my thing. There are infinitely more talented and knowledgeable palaeontologists than I whose opinion me and many others would like to hear, were such a spectacular discovery to occur. Except it won't occur will it? Because if any creationists are out there looking for such fossils they haven't found them, and you're not out there helping. Given all this, how could you even know the science is wrong? You presume to know the mind of God?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 03:28 AM

Trouble is Steve, these idiots represent a danger to the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 08:38 PM

I wouldn't worry, Shimrod. He understands nothing. He is, of course, an excellent source of amusement. He's far more fun, for example, than the ignorant pete and the depressingly-dismal Wacko. Thank Clapton for small mercies, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 06:32 PM

I notice you invoking the name of the Thatcher ... person there "concerened". Presumably you believe that all you need to succeed in life is 'hard work', that "markets should be free" and that if we remove the burdens of regulation from Big Business and the banks and taxation from the already rich then they will get even richer and the wealth will 'trickle down' and enrich us all!! Allelueia!!!

Well if you believe that load of shitey bollocks you're as deluded as pete!