BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 02:36 PM

Dreaming of the socks and leather car atlas with matching driving gloves.

I was hoping to get half a Nexus 7 but times are hard and I might have to settle for the free yet intensely annoying Tesco Hudl that I got last week with me Clubcard vouchers. Bloody capitalists. Oh Brand, where art thou...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 02:29 PM

Well bugger me sideways with a bent banana or perhaps a dirty fish-hook, M Musket, if that post of yours, specifically the bit about Baby Bels, didn't send a shudder down me spine. Why, only yesterday, when I was oop north in Radcliffe, and for the first bloody time in my whole life,, I consumed a Baby Bel. I had to be persuaded that the red coating was not actual cheese and needed to be removed, before recognising that the "edible" substance within was also not cheese, at least not as one generally knows it in the accepted sense of the word. I can say with certainty that no Baby Bel shall ever pass my lips ever again. Actually, I suppose I could try eating the red wax. You'll not be dangling yer Bels off of my Christmas tree, pal!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket extracting the urine
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 01:28 PM

We are all talking bollocks when addressing this thread.

But the exalted ones are allowed by the grace of Clapton to be ironic.

Betty Swollox she ain't. Trust me on that one.....

Anyway, back to the thread.

I managed to be embarrassing Dad at the weekend. Out shopping with my lad and his family, I noticed the shops were getting ready for Chrimbo and moaning about the fact, (I'm allowed.). I picked up a string bag of Baby Bell Edam cheeses and said, somewhat louder than I should have... "We can put this on the tree! It's its .. The little baby cheeses!"

A bit like wearing waistcoats and dancing at weddings. Or as Harvey Andrews pointed out, just being Dad.

My daughter in law pointed out I was not accompanying her, drunk or sober, to midnight mass on Chrimbo Eve. Good. Little do they know that the party animal of dubious reputation will be sound asleep with an empty Horlicks mug at the side of the bed these days come the witching hour. Dreaming of the socks and leather car atlas with matching driving gloves.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 01:25 PM

Dave, I fail to see what that has to do with my "Enlish". You are entitled (though not encouraged, in the interests of your reputation) to play by your rules, I can play by mine. My last posts were meant to remind Snail that the two are incompatible, that's all.

The OP announced a discussion at a higher level, though admittedly, one need not be a native speaker to see that he was not being honest. Nobody here supported the exact claim of the thread title (apparently originally stated by JackTS), but that does not mean that the whole topic is nonexistent. The best Mudcat threads slowly drift to the vicinity of the OP's statement or question; this one takes totally unmotivated wide jumps to some posters' favourite topics such as homophobia. I for one refuse to follow.

I enjoy humorous threads in many different senses, and participate in the fun as often as possible. This one sadly lacks humour. Actually it contains only one joke: Musket's "since Jerk went quiet, we need a trainee martyr." I say I say, he could do better if he really tried.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 12:50 PM

Well, Messiah M, I have never seen Coc, Betty Swallocks and Lilo Lil in the same room. Makes me wonder...

Grishka. Did you say Enlish was not your first language and you wished to learn? Well, sorry, but you do not seem too interested in doing so to me. It has been repeated over and over that the whole premise of this thread is nonsense. There is no such thing as militant atheism. It is just a device created in the image of religious fundamentalists to make them look vaguely sensible. The 'rules' that you like to refer to are simply to take the piss. This thread was created, for some strange reason, on the back of an earlier one that went just the same way. The rules are being adhered to by many but some, including yourself, do insist on treating it as a serious discussion. Hope this clears it up for you.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket in messiah mode
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 12:18 PM

We can't even be "certain" that when we press keys characters appear on the screen if Keith wants to be that pedantic. Fuzzy logic is built into just about every piece of kit that can get on the internet, and that cannot be described to the nth degree, nor predicted beyond probability boundaries. You can't use the word inexplicable and assume it to remain carved in stone. Some clever people out there chasing Nobels.

In fact, this iPad is not capable of putting what I type, only what frigging Apple reckon I want to type. It isn't even bloody Freudian!

Grishka used my name in vain just back there. Can someone explain whether I was being loved or laughed at ? Buggered if I know.



Oh conc, conc! Wherefore art thou conc?   Here, co messiah and associated gnome! Have you been scaring her off for my own good?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 11:23 AM

From the common genetic pattern it most likely only occurred once.

This seems to be the current consensus, but can't we imagine a world which possessed similar conditions with similar chemical ingredients reacting in similar ways in many different locations? Life may have started with a common genetic pattern not because it started only once but because there was only one potential genetic pattern in the race.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 11:17 AM

Steve is potentially far more dangerous than pete or Jack the Sailor. He claims to be a scientist but is actually fundamentally anti-science, rejecting everything that makes it different from religion.

Gosh, I bet your head spun and your shell almost melted as you typed that, you angry gastropod you. Heheh. Silly sod!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 10:38 AM

Quite right, Snail (06 Nov 13 - 09:05 AM), and applying to Musket and others as well. But we should not convey the impression that we were joining the game as played by their rules, because

a) it is moot and silly (schoolyard level, as you observed) and

b) reasonable persons cannot win.

What I felt like writing I wrote once. To be honest, I had been tempted to write what you wrote on 04 Nov 13 - 05:03 PM, for the sole reason that we are miraculously back to the thread title. However, nobody cares.

As for dangers, we need not over-dramatize those arising from any Mudcat BS postings.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 10:16 AM

I said that I am sure the origin of life is explicable and not supernatural.
We have theories, but no-one knows how it happened.
If we do not know about it we can hardly be said to understand it.

Higgs did not get his prize until his particle was discovered.
It was uncertain until then.

The gaps in the table existed because they ordered the elements by atomic mass and there were gaps in that.
They had no idea why the table had to be in that periodic form to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 09:50 AM

Yes my fellow associated gnome. The hand of a co Messiah was indeed instrumental. Screaming at the lazy buggers from the kop eventually bears fruit. In any case I got 6/1 on a win and put £20 on it.

Keith. Attempts to identify the Higgs boson took many years from prediction, ditto Bose Einstein Condensate. Doesn't make the certainty any less. Gaps in the table of elements were also just sat there waiting to be filled.

Your assertion that similar conditions couldn't work for primordial soup are somewhat strange. Are you saying that there is flaw in the reasoning?

Or (snigger) is it that God did it?



Amazing. Just getting to know conc and she (well she had better be a she) is playing hard to get. Back to my day dreaming fantasy I suppose.

Hello reality!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 09:05 AM

Grishka

Snail, you are wasting your time (as I wrote before). We may write what we please, but should not try to argue with those who play a game with different rules

You're probably right but, in a way, it is giving Steve the opportunity to demonstrate that he does play to different rules that is part of the point. Actually, he seems to have learnt some of those rules from pete like ignoring evidence that doesn't suit you and avoiding answering awkward questions. Notice how he failed to take up the opportunity to clarify his position on whether his belief in evolution was pragmatic or fundamental or to say whether or not he thought Stu was talking bollocks. Instead he resorted to his usual tactics of playground abuse and pathetic character attacks.

Steve is potentially far more dangerous than pete or Jack the Sailor. He claims to be a scientist but is actually fundamentally anti-science, rejecting everything that makes it different from religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Stu
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 08:55 AM

"the so called backward wiring is the optimal engineered design for sight."

Tosh. The eyes of some invertebrates are far superior to our own. Check out the Mantis Shrimp for example, and cephalopod eyes are superior to most tetrapod eyes as they have the blood vessels running behind the retina and can see plane polarised light. They evolved convergently though and are living proof eyes have evolved more than once. If you were to actually design an eye it wouldn't be hard to improve on the design.

Your god is a rubbish designer Pete, he's left us tetrapods with a blind spot and them pesky red-light absorbing blood vessels mentioned above. Human eyes are really quite rubbish, as we only see a tiny part of the light spectrum and our eyes are rubbish in the dark too; ever wonder why nocturnal animals rely on hearing and/or smell?


" it don't even explain how it got off the starting block!"

We'll know one day, be assured. Just because we don't understand something now doesn't mean god was involved - why would it?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 08:48 AM

Talking of things Owlish, Messiah M, what happened last Saturday? Do I detect the hand of an almighty presence?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 06:13 AM

We understand how life could evolve from primordial soup

No we do not, and all attempts to demonstrate it have failed.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 05:12 AM

Understanding is a process not a result. We understand how life could evolve from primordial soup but at this stage not sure which of the myriad theories give us the details. Experts will either clarify or correct me but I believe we have got as far back as being from a form of star fish?

Still have remnants in fact. We all use the remnant for one use, some for speech and. .. let's leave it at that in case we wake someone up who gets excited about such things.



Conc. My favourite colour is two colours really. Blue and White. Up the Owls!

Best not mention blue though. Might wake up another protagonist.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 04:22 AM

Not (evolution).
That is already explained and understood.

I am sure it [origin of life] will be explained, and soon, but you kid yourself if you say it is already understood.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 04:18 AM

"I am sure it [evolution] will be explained, and soon, but you kid yourself if you say it is already understood.

Agreed! But that is true of many scientific models. Pete, on the other hand, has been persuaded, by sinister religious fundamentalists, that absolute truth is contained within the pages of an old book and that that account cannot, and should not, be questioned!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 03:29 AM

I am quite satisfied that evolution explains the origin of species, and that the origin of life is an explicable event, but it has not been explained yet, and certainly not reproduced in any lab.
It occurred almost the instant the planet was cool enough.
From the common genetic pattern it most likely only occurred once.

I am sure it will be explained, and soon, but you kid yourself if you say it is already understood.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 01:15 AM

You aren't the first to call me a naughty boy conc. Snag is, does a double first, weilder of world peace have big tits? Or are you a hairy arsed bloke? I've heard about these Internet chat rooms. .... Still, if you are the former, looks like I've still got what it takes. If you are the latter, our resident person who can't spell the name of his Egypt based hero can get excited too.

Here pete. When you mention demonstrable facts such as why Dyson sucks, don't forget the "operational science" that contradicts biblical teaching. There's a good chap.





Conc. What's your favourite colour?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 09:12 PM

musket- when mr dyson developed his cyclone hoover ,it was the result of operational science. I know I keep telling you, but this involves observations on a subject by repeatable experiments. this is not the domain of Darwinism.
shimrod ,I did begin to read origins but it is so boring and hard going ,I gave up. but not before reading his admission that what he proposed could equally be otherwise interpreted from the data he presented. that data is basically the study of natural selection on various forms - I remember ploughing through stuff on pigeons.
and what did he find? changes via natural or artificial selection but they were still birds, and I think still pigeons.
I have before invited you's to give me the section of the book where he demonstrates that it can go any further than that.
nothing was forthcoming- I wonder why !!
perhaps, shimrod ,you can do so from your reading of it?
I suppose I could read dawkins. stuff like how the eye is so badly designed and thus demonstrating no creator or a stupid one.
but he was wrong. the so called backward wiring is the optimal engineered design for sight.
maybe another reason he wont debate creation scientists.
of course over the years, I have read many of the posts of his disciples and I would have thought his admirers would have presented his best arguments.
but then ,you probably have!

Well, lays'n'gelmen, I thought it necessary to reproduce the whole of this post in order to demonstrate unto you a man who professes, and revels in, his own ignorance in such a touchingly irony-free manner. Here we have a man who takes the lies of ancient and tendentious desert-dwellers (most of whom didn't exist) so literally yet who can't get on with the beautiful, simple and elegant, not to speak of neutral, writing of Darwin, a man who, exceptionally, married science to superb literary communication. Of course, he hasn't "read Dawkins", which has, as you can see all too plainly from his post, resulted in his total misunderstanding of every aspect of the man and his writings. I find it very moving, actually, that a man can so freely display his pig-ignorant claptrap for all to see, yet be so immune to embarrassment over his own crass stupidity. His skin must be even thicker than his skull.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 08:35 PM

steve assures us with justifiably recognized religious fervour[snail]that" evolution explains all of life on earth...."
really?- it don't even explain how it got off the starting block!

Well I suppose I ought to congratulate Snail for getting into bed with pete (as well as talking franker and franker bollocks as time passes...) I possess no fervour in any regard you can conjure up, pete sweetum. Au contraire. I get in trouble here for being a little on the icy-cool side (though I have to strive to not be too Spock-like). I mean, even Bonkers Conkers has me smiling indulgently instead of getting me all aereated. Accusations of "religious fervour" levelled at thoroughly non-religious chappies such as yours truly have not only been comprehensively debunked on this website by far greater minds than yours (which is actually saying very little indeed, which is meant squarely as an insult to you, not them), but also make you look like a shagged-out, intellectually-defeated utter twat (which, of course, you are). Your own doing, tragically. Old boy, evolution does indeed explain all of life on earth in all its beauty and diversity, and if you or you quasi-religious chum Snail know of a better explanation, well let's be having it, as in piss or get off the pot innit. Incidentally, in order to save you time, I said "explanation", not "blind guess". And don't get overly smug about the origin of life. Whenever and wherever that happened, 'twas a prosaic and unassuming event, no different to any other event in the course of the development of life in all its beauty and complexity, and almost certainly was one that would yield to some sort of explanation along the lines of biological natural selection. I will not be hoodwinked by religious tossers such as your good self into believing that it was a "sacred moment". You feed on that stupid notion if you like, but I'd rather eat pasta.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 07:57 PM

musket- when mr dyson developed his cyclone hoover ,it was the result of operational science. I know I keep telling you, but this involves observations on a subject by repeatable experiments. this is not the domain of Darwinism.
shimrod ,I did begin to read origins but it is so boring and hard going ,I gave up. but not before reading his admission that what he proposed could equally be otherwise interpreted from the data he presented. that data is basically the study of natural selection on various forms - I remember ploughing through stuff on pigeons.
and what did he find? changes via natural or artificial selection but they were still birds, and I think still pigeons.
I have before invited you's to give me the section of the book where he demonstrates that it can go any further than that.
nothing was forthcoming- I wonder why !!
perhaps, shimrod ,you can do so from your reading of it?
I suppose I could read dawkins. stuff like how the eye is so badly designed and thus demonstrating no creator or a stupid one.
but he was wrong. the so called backward wiring is the optimal engineered design for sight.
maybe another reason he wont debate creation scientists.
of course over the years, I have read many of the posts of his disciples and I would have thought his admirers would have presented his best arguments.
but then ,you probably have!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 04:41 PM

" ... but maybe that's part of the strategy."

Part of what strategy, pete? A strategic part of Satan's giant conspiracy to discredit Christianity, perhaps? Are we seeing another of your pious fall back positions here - like your ineffability cop-out when challenged to provide proof of God's existence?

Here's another challenge: Why don't you read the literature on evolution? Not the Tea-party Taliban's bullshit propaganda - but the writings of real scientists. Have you actually read Darwin or Dawkins for example?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 04:02 PM

""sexually transmitted disease which affects male homosexuals and indirectly every other one of us.""

Just how does it affect you Ake, directly or otherwise?........unless, Naah! That can't be it

""It is in the interests of homosexuals to see this epidemic ended, but people like Ian are perfectly happy to see the epidemic continue by sticking to the failed procedures of the last ten years.""

You mean those failed procedures which have reduced it to a manageable condition, not causing sigificant loss of life expectancy?

Or those mysterious ""other considerations"" which will persist after a vaccine for HIV has been produced, leaving you free to continue your mean spirited attempts to interfere in other people's lives?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 02:03 PM

Oh dear, Conc. Wrong again I'm afraid. I am not accusing you of cut and paste. Simply of not having an original thought in that silly little nog. The C&P joke has been done already. Just went over your head I suppose. Try again.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 01:44 PM

I accept that my Dyson vacuum cleaner works by cyclone technology, but I haven't observed it. I accept that beer gets its bitter taste from hops, but be buggered if I know why? I accept that Mrs Musket knows a hell of a lot about certain cancers and asks patients to believe what she tells them, but I don't observe her expertise.

So why should I not accept that the findings of Darwin point to a particular theory? Out of interest, whilst I have never read anything he wrote, I have read and watched many books and documentaries explaining his theory and how it still holds in the light of better general understanding and access to tests he couldn't have dreamt of.

Ok. You may say the same for the bible. The difference being, we know the bible is translations of translations of stories, some written as fact, some written as moral stories, in the same way as American situation comedies. We know that many of the stories are lifted from much earlier stories. We know for a solid fact that the universe is older than the bible reckons, and popping out and looking at the sky is all you need to do. As you speak of scientists, my own published thesis may not have been in the realm of astrophysics, but wavelength differential was a key element of it, so red shift is something I can fully and knowledgeably accept, as whilst the fundamentals have been refined, and still are, the principle is about as certain as night following day.

Anyway pete, I hope your earlier support of bigotry, albeit from a position of ignorance, has now had a chance to disassociate itself? I don't like being told I am wrong unless I actually am. (and yes, it happens now and then.)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist formilly noan as consernd
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 01:30 PM

Now look here gomad I will fess up when I have cut and pasted but you are wrong this time..this is all me own work...laugh at..well if it gives you pleasure dear heart..I have been laughing at you lot for months.. well, sniggering in wonderment really.

Musket (blushing)i have been flirted with many time but never on a chat line..squidgy gender...naughty boy.. balls in a vice eh? Well I think most of them on here have caught their brains in a vice

shitroad, ginger woosy has everything to do with bum inhabitant ginger cake..but trying to explain it to you would be as pointless as teaching wizzjet how to sit on furniture

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 01:20 PM

full marks musket , for creative writing.....and evading the point
...ie- you have not observed evolution.
but then its a faith position- like saying you have faith that theres no absolute truth...
are you absolutely sure of that shimrod?!

steve assures us with justifiably recognized religious fervour[snail]that" evolution explains all of life on earth...."
really?- it don't even explain how it got off the starting block!

its getting harder to find anything clean and constructive to answer,- but maybe that's part of the strategy!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 11:36 AM

I wonder if a "ginger woosy" has anything to do with a "bum inhabitant ginger cake"?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 10:48 AM

Snail, you are wasting your time (as I wrote before). We may write what we please, but should not try to argue with those who play a game with different rules - let alone harangue a non-existing referee.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket between courses
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 10:33 AM

Now.. I look at it this way.

Conc seems to have got me weighed up alright.

Are you sure you are of the squidgy gender conc? Mrs Musket may want to trap my balls in a vice. .

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 09:53 AM

Sigh... You let me down again, Conc. I was just getting into "ginger woosys" and the square root of nothing (wonderful expressions BTW - Almost biblical in their absurdity :-) ) when I realised you were plagiarising again. Expertise in cut and paste skills has already been attributed to you so, sorry, back to the the cell and no treats for you tonight.

There is another person who uses 'sweetums' as an insult BTW. But I am sure you are not her. She is quite malicious while you are good for a laugh. Well, to be laughed at anyway.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist formally known as concerened
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 08:22 AM

Here we go again!!! the collection of half arsed theorists and ginger woosy theological experts have now added gender expertise to their cut and paste skills, needless to say they all know(except musket and I of course) the square root of nothing on any of it.

The prat formally known as wizzjet has gone strangely silent..still putting your toys back in your pram sweetums?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 07:56 AM

starters. ..

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 06:09 AM

I haven't tried it but I think you could substitute "God" for "evolution" throughout that passage and it would make a rant any god botherer would be proud of. (And Godless = And Darwinless?)

It's a bit confusing because only two days ago you said -
the pragmatic side of me tells me that there is no doubt worth contemplating (which is not quite the same as no doubt whatsoever) that evolution happens

I wish you'd make your mind up. Which is it, pragmatism or a fundamental truth?

I suppose you have finally answered the question you have repeatedly ignored. I asked you what you thought of Stu's urge to pete "You do have to get off your arse do some work though to familiarise yourself with the philosophies and methodologies that make 'science' what it is". You clearly think he was talking bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket gettin.. can't be arsed
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 05:54 AM

Back to bingo it is then.

Far healthier for starterd

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 07:03 PM

Yes and that rogue apostrophe was an unspotted Apple suggestion, not my doing. I may talk bollocks, and I hope my aspirations in that direction succeed, but I will not, under any circumstances, talk illiterate bollocks! Wacko I am not!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion pci
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 06:56 PM

Snail said that he's never said that evolution ain't true. Hey chaps and chapesses, it's there. In black 'n' white. Honestly, Snail, that really should be the end of our ultimately fruitless conversation, but I doubt you'll leave it there in spite of your capitulation. Let me just say this, in sum (and don't be at all surprised if I never respond to your tiresome nitpicking ever again). The world of nature is complex, diverse, beautiful and wonderful. And Godless. Evolution is what makes it what it is, nothing else. Evolution explains all of life on earth in all it's beauty and complexity, and nothing else gets a look in, not now or for ever more. Evolution has nothing to do with science, because evolution was going on for billions of years before the first scientist ever drew breath. Science is all about what human beings think and that is a novel phenomenon, a stripling compared to the phenomenon of evolution. Science might explain evolution, but evolution is not science. Celebrate it and revel in it and stuff the up-their-own-botties philosophers. They are philosophers, not jobbing scientists who do the actual work. Celebrate the heroes, not the worriers!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 06:01 PM

The wonderful thing about being a co Messiah is that others do the trawling for you and pm the quotes. Makes awful reading.

But.. In the spirit of the game, the associated gnome is getting warm but even with the answer being brazen enough to stand by some frankly disturbing quotes in full context, I reckon we need more clues...



The religious and secular who believe in marriage as an institution would ask , why should that institution be weakened by forcing it to accept those whom the vast majority of the public regard as perverts?

Well it's not only the religious who believe in the institution of marriage, in fact a huge majority all over the world hold this view and they may feel that the sexual orientation of those allowed into that institution is very much their business.

You say to me. "Don't you KNOW any homosexuals...well of course I do.
Two or three, but I know literally hundreds of people who are in conventional marriages, who went through a marriage ceremony and believe marriage means the joining of a man and woman. To many people in my neck of the woods, their wedding day has been, or will be, the most important of their lives.   They spend money on the big day, everything has to be perfect, the wedding album has pride of place in the home, the wedding picture will sit beside the pictures of children and grand children.
Most of these people see homosexuality as a perversion, and to have the institution of marriage thrown open to homosexuals diminshes its status.




Anyone got a bucket handy?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 05:27 PM

Whoops - Imagine a slash-I after 'disappointed' and all will make more sense :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 05:24 PM

I knew you would not be good to your word, Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton - PM
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 07:51 AM

...
I will say no more on the subject in this thread, but I make a point of never knowingly lying on this forum ...



but I thought you would have lasted more than a few hours. I am disappointed.

I think I am getting there Musket but something is telling me I am missing something obvious. Someone who cannot see the irony of using 'mince' in the same sentence as homosexual? Not Conc, surely? How can a woman with 2 firsts from Cambridge (A known bed of homosexuality, pun intended), a commission in the Tanzanian navy (Well, we all know about sailors) and countless other contra indications be homophobic? Nah, can't be that. Maybe someone who has posted more recently. Hmmmm. Let me think...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 05:03 PM

"Stu
Although we can't say for 100% evolution is true..."

This comment is taken a tad out of context . . . to all intents and purposes evolution is happening, and is true.

Yes, Stu, you are right, for all practical purposes the prevailing scientific orthodoxy is taken as "true". Anyone working in evolution will take Evolution and Darwin's Theory of Evolution for granted. Anyone working in mechanics or ballistics or planetary motion (with one exception) will assume that Newton's theories are true (even though we now know they aren't). They will be the context within which they work. That isn't the point.

One of Steve's main weapons against pete and his chums is that "Evolution is true." If all that means is that scientists behave as if it was true "to all intents and purposes" then you have handed the game to the creationists. They are quite entitled to say "These evolutionists behave as if evolution is true even though they know it isn't really. That's what we've been saying all the time." "Evolution is true." implies more than that. It suggests a degree of certainty to compete with literal truth in the Bible and that isn't what science does.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 03:46 PM

My My....just popped back into Mudcat and what do I find....Ian has a new toy.
I never thought that even he, could be sad enough to trail through ten years of my posting history and print pieces completely out of context.
My posting history is copied in full in the archive and is available for anyone to read in context.
I have never concealed my opposition to homosexual marriage, or that I consider male to male sex dangerous and unhealthy....the figures speak for themselves on that score.
The abuse of young mainly young boys and young men by adult male priests must give people pause for thought, given the historical context of homosexual behaviour.

All that makes not one whit of difference to the epidemic of sexually transmitted disease which affects male homosexuals and indirectly every other one of us.
It is in the interests of homosexuals to see this epidemic ended, but people like Ian are perfectly happy to see the epidemic continue by sticking to the failed procedures of the last ten years.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 03:33 PM

Steve Shaw

"Mudcat ate my cookie"? I wish mudcat was a Frenchman who ate snails!

A good, Shavian start.

For your information, oh thou who art scared of truth, Richard Dawkins has said that evolution is true on several occasions, so what's all this "brushing aside" bollox!

Unfortunately, he does, thus opening up the path for accusations of evolutionism from the creationists. I quoted Dawkins writing in support of falsifiability. You ignored it. You only brush Dawkins aside when he's saying things that don't fit your ideas. I quoted Darwin directly. You ignored it and attributed to him things he did not say. As for Popper, Einstein and the rest, phooey! Steve Shaw knows best.

Yes, the philosophy of science is an interesting area without which science would lose its base,[Promising!] but science has also got to be a tad pragmatic (otherwise it would disappear up its own philosophical arsehole instead of moving on for the good of mankind and the natural world), and the pragmatic side of me tells me that there is no doubt worth contemplating (which is not quite the same as no doubt whatsoever) that evolution happens,

Excellent! The penny is finally beginning to drop. That's quite a shift from -

It is a declaration of the self-evident, as in "one's left testicle is to the left of one's right testicle, unless one happens to be viewing them from the front, in which case vice versa". There, not a modicum of science in that lot. An immutable truth applying to all twin-betesticled bilaterally-symmetrical individuals since the dawn of time, no science needed to make it true.

Oh dear. Just when things were going so well -
If you disagree, do apprise us of your demurrals, with full reasons. Do you not think that evolution happens? Do you think that someone, some day, will come up with a convincing counter-explanation?

Listen carefully, Steve. I have never said evolution isn't true. I do not have any problem with evolution or Darwin's Theory of Evolution. Recently your co-messiah said "I see evidence for evolution all over the place. Or at least. (And this is the clincher) I observe what is explained by no alternative theory." I entirely agree. Have this done up in cross stitch and hung over your bed. Have it tattooed on your scrotum which you seem to take such delight at gazing upon. This isn't about whether or not "Evolution is true.", it's about how science works. If you want evolution and Darwin's Theory of Evolution to be part of science, they have to obey the rules, they have to abide by the underlying philosophy. You aren't just being pragmatic, you are actively opposed to the philosophy of science. You tried to argue that Popper was wrong! Who the @$£&^%! do you think you are? This is about whether to choose science or religion. It is about whether to choose reason or faith. I have quoted Jack Cohen before but it's worth saying again - "Some people think that science is about knowing things. It isn't, it's about not knowing things. Knowing we leave to religion." Make up your mind which side you are on.

Ultimately, Gastropodus stalkerissimus, are you actually a closet creationist?

Getting a bit desperate aren't you Steve? I could hardly ask for a more definite sign that you know you've lost the argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Musket the game master
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 12:21 PM

No, it isn't Rudolph Hess. I can see where you are coming from though. Here's a clue. Both Hess and the mystery fun guy have connections with Scotland.

Any thoughts?

Here's another clue from the archive;


Lily Festre....You are quite wrong to state unequivocably that there is no link between MALE homosexuality and the abuse of boys.

And a bonus quote from the same thread..


Alan dont let us mince our words, the real issue is whether or not male homosexuals can be trusted with the personal care of young children.



And a further bonus? An insight into the caring side..


However, I still think this is a very serious matter and chilren are being placed in a very dangerous position through our adherence to PC.
Children brought up by a "same sex couple" also face a young life of taunting and bullying by their peers.
Something which never seems to have been taken into account by the authorities, but which can blight a child's life forever.



This quiz is brought to by Musket Entertainment Ltd, In association with a fellow Mudcatter who didn't like two faced liars apparently, and thought a set of, I reckon it is at Least 200 quotes on gay lifestyle by the mystery person and pm'd me with them. Not a single one about caring for their health.....

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist forsmeltingly noun as concerend
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 12:05 PM

Do you really think so shitroad..?

Coo!!, I am gutted,except, if you remember I am of the gender that wears skirts.

Also if you think I am worried one jot about what people think of me you have the wrong pollack.

I will leave that to the academics? like wizzjet the sulky baby and the rest of the slat kicking out of cot buffoons.

have a nice day

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 11:42 AM

"Belittling people is not the way to go,..."

Normally I'd agree with that, 'concerened'. But you've got 'kick me' stencilled on your trouser seat!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 11:37 AM

Yay! Thanks, co-Messiahs. Your words of wisdom were a joy to behold but getting good old Conc on the case was the real stroke of genius. I have not seen so much bollocks in days :-)

I am not very good at games though, Messiah M. Is it Rudolph Hess?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion p
From: GUEST,the artist forsmeltingly noun as concerend
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 07:44 AM

Now now wizzjet don't get personal!! If you cant take a little well deserved criticism maybe you should foxtrot oscer a give us all a break from your temper tantrums..

Btw nothing I say about you is meant to be a compliment..you are, always was and forever will be, a pompous judgmental , self satisfied, cake eating cad..so there!!