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Perfect singers

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DonMeixner 11 Jun 00 - 07:04 PM
GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU 11 Jun 00 - 07:10 PM
MK 11 Jun 00 - 07:36 PM
SeanM 11 Jun 00 - 07:47 PM
Gary T 11 Jun 00 - 08:02 PM
GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU 11 Jun 00 - 08:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Jun 00 - 08:43 PM
Bugsy 11 Jun 00 - 08:46 PM
Willie-O 11 Jun 00 - 11:09 PM
DonMeixner 11 Jun 00 - 11:15 PM
Bartholomew 12 Jun 00 - 12:06 AM
Mbo 12 Jun 00 - 12:13 AM
sledge 12 Jun 00 - 03:10 AM
GUEST,April790 12 Jun 00 - 03:28 AM
alison 12 Jun 00 - 03:39 AM
GUEST,James 12 Jun 00 - 07:34 AM
TheOldMole 12 Jun 00 - 08:00 AM
GUEST 12 Jun 00 - 10:23 AM
Bert 12 Jun 00 - 11:00 AM
Rana who SHOULD be working 12 Jun 00 - 11:12 AM
Valancy 12 Jun 00 - 12:16 PM
sophocleese 12 Jun 00 - 12:26 PM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 12 Jun 00 - 01:00 PM
Herma 12 Jun 00 - 01:14 PM
john c 12 Jun 00 - 01:37 PM
Rana who SHOULD be working 12 Jun 00 - 02:11 PM
Grab 12 Jun 00 - 02:47 PM
Pixie 12 Jun 00 - 09:13 PM
Jeri 12 Jun 00 - 09:40 PM
Mbo 12 Jun 00 - 09:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Jun 00 - 09:46 PM
DonMeixner 12 Jun 00 - 11:41 PM
Racer 13 Jun 00 - 12:33 AM
catspaw49 13 Jun 00 - 01:32 AM
winniemih 13 Jun 00 - 01:55 AM
GUEST,Aldus 13 Jun 00 - 07:59 AM
Catlin 13 Jun 00 - 05:44 PM
bbc 13 Jun 00 - 06:29 PM
bbelle 13 Jun 00 - 06:59 PM
keltcgrasshoppper 13 Jun 00 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,Peter T. 14 Jun 00 - 05:06 PM
radriano 14 Jun 00 - 07:19 PM
bbelle 14 Jun 00 - 09:13 PM
catspaw49 14 Jun 00 - 09:38 PM
Marion 15 Jun 00 - 09:25 AM
Scabby Douglas 15 Jun 00 - 09:31 AM
jayohjo 15 Jun 00 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,lindbrite 24 Sep 01 - 05:52 AM
Murray MacLeod 24 Sep 01 - 07:11 AM
LR Mole 24 Sep 01 - 10:56 AM
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Subject: Perfect singers
From: DonMeixner
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 07:04 PM

Geoffrey (#2 son and identical twin except in musical taste to brother Greg.) and I were driving to my office and discussing singers. He allowed as how he like Paddy Reilly's as we listened to "The Rose of Allendale". I told him I felt that Paddy'e was a perfect voice. Effortless in range, void of affectation or innatural dialect, just pure singing. There are also some intangibles I can't describe. I then realized as to how few people there are that fit this criteria I have described. This doesn't mean that I think there are no other good or great songers singers. There are many. And I may be very subjective here as well.

I would add Piscilla Herdman, Glenn Curtin, Ray Price, Jim Reeves, Anne Murray, Gordon Bok, Tim Spencer, and Ken Curtis to this list. May be Mel Torme and Ronnie Browne.

Some of these folks aren't favorites by a mile but certainly skill is skill whether you like the style or no. Who else fits the bill?

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 07:10 PM

Karen Carpenter, Brad Delp, and Neil McCoy.

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: MK
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 07:36 PM

Frank Sinatra
Barbra Streisand
Ella Fitzgerald
(young)Judy Garland
Anita Baker
K.D. Lang
Al Jareau
Art Garfunkle
Patsy Cline
Whitney Houston

(...a few that come to mind anyway...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: SeanM
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 07:47 PM

How about those that while they may not be overall perfect, are abosolutely perfect for individual songs?

M


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Gary T
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 08:02 PM

Waylon Jennings, Patsy Cline, k d lang.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 08:07 PM

Roy Orbison and Ronnie Milsap.

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 08:43 PM

I don't think I'd agree with Don's criteria here. Which is ok, because I think that threads which turn into lists of artistes run into the ground for me. (Especially when they are people I've never consciously heard in my life, which a good number of the ones mentined above are.)What I think is interesting is to work out what the qualities are that make you want to put a singer in a list.

If I was going to name one singer, it'd be Christy Moore. And the reason is the way he can open up meanings in a song you've heard before that you didn't realise were there, and make you want to sing it yourself. There's some singers put a mark on a song that seesm to make other people feel compelled to echo them when they sing it, and Christy doesn't do that. Yet he's got a way of singing that is unique - and I don't understand how those two things can be true at the same time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Bugsy
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 08:46 PM

As far as folk goes, It's Roy Bailey, Stan Roger, and Lorena McKennet for me. (Just off the top of my head). Maybe add Dan Seals, especially since he's gone acoustic.

CHeers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Willie-O
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 11:09 PM

Connie Dover.
Aretha Franklin.
Lynn Miles.
Martin Wyndham-Read.
Nic Jones.
Martin Carthy.

These are very different artists. (You might not know of Lynn, she's a friend...has a record or two on Rounder now.) What they have in common is that they all know how to inhabit a song rather than present it.

Willie-O


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: DonMeixner
Date: 11 Jun 00 - 11:15 PM

Hi Mc,

I would have to disagree with you about Christy Moore tho' He is a great writter and he sings his songs perfectly but I don't think he has what I would call a pure voice. I would say that He is a stylist. And he suits his songs so well.

Perhaps I should rename this as pure voices rather than perfect singers. Leon Redbones voice is perfect for what he does and he sins those songs perfectly. But I can't imagine his voice wrapped around Oh Holy Night or Lies.

Notice that Sinatra and Striesand didn't make my list? Too much affectation for my criteria.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Bartholomew
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 12:06 AM

I have "discussed" this over the years countless times. Everybody has an opinion and non one ever changes someone's mind about this. But it is fun to chew on, so here goes.

Frist of all, I want to make a distinction. There are people with beautiful (I hate to use the word perfect about mere humans) voices AND there are people who are impeccable singers. Most people listen to the tonal quality of a person's voice and say, "there is a great singer". This is the same as confusing a guy with a great guitar for a great guitar player. I like singers; I hate it when someone with a perfectly good voice doesn't learn to use it.

I love Judy Collins' voice. She also sings well. Ditto for Joni Mitchell and the late Sandy Denny. Joan Baez, while having a good voice, IMHO never learned to sing.
Among the men I would rate Bruce Cockburn bery highly, also Geg Brown, Theodore Bikel, Frank Sinatra and Roy Orbison. No one puts as much emotion in a song as Roy Orbison. Some of the singers that I like to listen to a lot are Leroy Parnell, James House, Linda Ronstadt and Aaron Neville.

But without a doubt the singers I admire most are Frank Sinatra, Ruth Brown and Bob Dylan. Sinatra has it all. And few can interpret a song like he did. Ditto Ruth Brown. And Bob Dylan, although not blessed with a pleasant natural tonal quality, is unbelievably good with what he has. He is a great interpreter, particularly of the blues. If you need convincing on Bob, listen to his live recordings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 12:13 AM

Thanks for mentioning Leroy, Bart! And of course James House's "This Is Me Missing You" is the song that means the most to me right now....

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: sledge
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 03:10 AM

Try Steve Knightly from the UK south coast duo Show of Hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,April790
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 03:28 AM

Alison Krause, Lynn Morris, Laurie Lewis, Enya, Ricky Skaggs, (esp. his ability to harmonize with anyone) Judy Collins, Doyle Lawson (his ability to pick perfect singers so his band always sounds the same regardless of who sings with him.) Marie Brennan (Enya's sister) John Denver


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: alison
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 03:39 AM

Karan Casey (from Solas... or maybe ex-Solas now)
Kaen Mathison (from Capercaillie)

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,James
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 07:34 AM

I would like to add my favourites to the list. I am not a big fan of some of these people but I certainly admire the coices... k.d. lang, Anne Murray,Tony Bennett, Aretha Franklin, Edith Piaf, Sarah Brightman, Judy Collins, Maddy Prior, Sandy Denny,John Macormack,Hank Snow,Joni Mitchell and Bruce Cockburn. It has just occured to me how many of these people are Canadian..maybe its the cold aire. Also, I was surprised to see Whitney Houston on someones list. Is it just me or does she screech too much and have trouble carrying a tune ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: TheOldMole
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 08:00 AM

Aaron Neville. Clyde McPhatter. Tony Williams (Platters). Brook Benton. Nat "King" Cole. Charles Brown.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 10:23 AM

definitely art garfunkle--simon and garfunkel togethyer form a most perfect voice, as well


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Bert
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 11:00 AM

ME


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 11:12 AM

I remember a conversation years ago on the relative singing merits of Pentangle's Jacqui McShee vs. Fairport/Fotheringay/etc's Sandy Denny. Liking both, I was interested to hear that the other person way prefered Sandy Denny because her singing evoked (invoked?) much feeling and emotion whereas he found McShee's singing to be technically very good but not creating the same feelings.

So, what how does this criteria fit within "perfect singers"? Or is it another part of it - technicality vs. emotion?

Cheers

Rana


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Valancy
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 12:16 PM

Full agreement on many of the above listed; IMHO, another pure, unaffected voice none of you will have likely heard belongs a woman I'm proud to call my friend: Anne Marie Menta (she's going to kill me). She's a local (New Haven, CT area) singer, mostly folk, mostly of her own writing, with a CD out a year or so that can be sampled at Annemariementa.com. She has one of the sweetest voices I've ever heard. Tracey


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: sophocleese
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 12:26 PM

Rana, its interesting the comparison between Sandy Denny and Jacqui Shee. I also make comparisons and add Maddy Prior to the mix. I like them all but prefer Jacqui Shee and tended to try and sing more like her than the others. I am of course biased, my own voice is sweet and light and therefore I tend to like similar singers and envy those who can add guts and volume to their voices.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 01:00 PM

All of the above, but I vote for Nana Mouskouri and Nina and Frederik. Yours, Aye. Dave (who might think of a few more after his nap)


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Herma
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 01:14 PM

May I add my absolute favorites, especially in harmony singing: The McCalmans from Scotland, still going strong after 35 years!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: john c
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 01:37 PM

June Tabor!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 02:11 PM

Hi Sophoclese,

Those 3 always seemed to be compared. I suppose one reason (apart from all being fine singers) was that they were involved with the 3 major British Folk rock groups of the time, over shadowing another fine group Mr. Foz which had great singing from Bob and Carol Pegg. Linda Thompson from this era (and a bit after) was also a fine vocalist and John C, I have to agree with June Tabor as well!

There's too many!!!

Rana


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Grab
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 02:47 PM

Chris Isaak - like Elvis but more talented, and better looking too. Leonard Cohen has an amazing voice, like Dylan he's not a classically great singer, but there's so much feeling in there (another Canadian for you too). Maria Carey's version of Without You sends shivers everywhere, even though everything else she's ever done is crap (classic example of a good singer who needs folk to write songs for her, instead of trying to sing her own dross). And all the great 60's soul legends - Dusty Springfield, Aretha Franklin, etc.

Not forgetting the 2 gymnasts of male singing - Prince and MJ. However much you may think they're a pair of loonies, you can't deny it'd be a poorer place without them.

Grab.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Pixie
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 09:13 PM

I'm with Bert....actually, a local person (please George, if you read this, don't tell Mary I'm writing about her!)Mary Porter, who sings at folk circles in Halifax/Dartmouth. Pure, clean, volume, and beautiful a capella! Also would like to add in another Maritimer....the incomparable (now what is her name?)Katherine MacKinnon?

I actually prefer someone without an absolutely perfect voice...gives me some hope!


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 09:40 PM

A lot of people are picking people who seem to have what I would call "affectation" in their singing, IMO. They might be outstanding singers, but their style often has more importance than the song. Oh well, different opinions...

Female: Maddy Prior, June Tabor, Jeannie Robertson Male: Cliff Haslam is the only one I can think of at the moment. He's only done one recording (a long time ago) that Folk Legacy sells, but he's absolutely incredible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 09:45 PM

Oh well, for "no-affectation" you have to mention Kraftwerk!! "I'm the operator--of a calculator! It's got little buttons that flash--when I add or subtract!" Ah, nothing like 80's German Industrial electronica...

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 09:46 PM

"There are people with beautiful (I hate to use the word perfect about mere humans) voices AND there are people who are impeccable singers. Most people listen to the tonal quality of a person's voice and say, "there is a great singer". This is the same as confusing a guy with a great guitar for a great guitar player."

Nice distinction, Bartholomew, and valuable as well. Hep me understand why I like some people and not others. The singers I like best tend to have beaten-up guitars of voices.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Jun 00 - 11:41 PM

Thanks Jeri, you are one of the few who seem to get what my original thought was.

Mc, No problem with that. I like a worn voice too, living in your voice is what gives it the sound of honesty and dimension.

I was just wondering about singers with a pure sound.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Racer
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 12:33 AM

I think that Robert Smith is the perfect vocalist. He does his music in way that can't be duplicated. He has also done things on guitar that I'd originally thought weren't possible. Somehow, he makes the wierdest chord progressions work out. Listen to a live version of "Jupiter Crash" and you'll know what I'm talking about.

As far as singers go, I'm kind of partial to Harriet Wheeler. "Here's Where the Story Ends" still gives me goosebumps. She just sounds so perfect in that song.

-Racer


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 01:32 AM

I keep reading this thread and I have a hard time getting a handle on it, but I think Jeri keyed me back in and I read Don's original post again. I don't really get the "perfect voice" idea unless I can relate it to particular genres or songs. I love to hear Mel Torme scattin, but I have a hard time getting a grip on him singing "Blue Moon of Kentucky." Course I can't get around Bill Monroe singing, "Shoobee, shoobee, doit, doit, du waa" either.

So........A voice without unnatural affectation or dialect that is perfect, pure if you like, for the music being performed? That being my criteria, I'd give anything to sing like Frank Proffit. I sing his songs, but I can't come close to that sound and don't even try. To do justice to his songs you at least have to sing them in your own truth, but that Southern Mountain sound is epitomized in Frank Proffit.

In that same way, I like John Hurt, Linda Williams, Jon Hartford, or George Jones for that matter. I mean really. Take some "My woman's gone, dog's dead, pickup's busted, and I'm sittin in the back of this honky tonk with a .357 about to blow my brains out" song and there ain't NOBODY can deliver that sucker like George. I don't like him, but that ain't the point.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: winniemih
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 01:55 AM

Mary Black


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Aldus
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 07:59 AM

I would like to mention the incomparable Norma Waterson, also June Tabor, Annie Haslam, Kate and Anna MacGarrigle, Dusty Sprinfield...I am sure there are many more as for the male singers.. Joe Cocker can still bring me to tears....


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Catlin
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 05:44 PM

Interesting thread. To add my two-penethworth: Female: Sandy Denny (because she made me want to sing, and her song are so beautiful) K D Lang (because I fell for her many moons ago and her songs are so real and right for her voice) Alison Moyat (not folk, but a damn fine voice and as she is the singer I most resemble and sound like, I thought I should mention her :) Alison Kraus (beautifully clear angelic voice.... I'd love to sing the way she does :) Macy Gray (again not folk but a favorite of mine and I greatly admire the way she has taken the raw sound of her voice and used it to create such wonderful music) The female singer out of All About Eve (sorry not sure of her name, but she makes me tingle and I think she has a v. pure voice

Male: Dave Burland ( I'm a Barnsley lass myself and to hear Dave live was a treat) Dick Gaughan (His voice is so rich I could eat it :) Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull (He just does it for me and the songs he sings are so all encompassing (IMHO) that Tull are my band of choice on most occasions) I think it is not really possible to quantify a 'perfect' singer. A singer has to use their voice to best advantage for a particular song, in a particular genre, at a particular performance. Some technicly brilliant singers just fail to inspire any emotion, whereas less perfect singers can use their voices to much better effect, and make you *feel* at a given performance. This is the criteria I use to judge music. If a singer doesn't make me want to sing the song too, then, usually, I don't like it much. I'm not saying I can sing it, but I always want to try! *Hugs* Liz


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: bbc
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 06:29 PM

I would second Priscilla Herdman & add Lui Collins. Susie Burke has a lovely sound, too.

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: bbelle
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 06:59 PM

"Perfect" is relative to one's ear. I think Johnny Mathis singing "Chances Are" is perfect; Willie Nelson singing "You Were Always On My Mind;" Judy Collins singing "Someday Soon;" Ol' Blue Eyes singing "It's a Quarter to Three;" Barbra Streisand singing "People." My list is quite long ...

moonchild


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: keltcgrasshoppper
Date: 13 Jun 00 - 07:22 PM

I just love Ray Charles.. while his voice may be far from what most consider perfect..I just love it..Female singers I love Eliza Carthy, and Charlotte Church, even though she is a bit over sold I think her voice is lovely.Another favorite is Mary Black and The Rankin sisters, Cookie, Heather and Raylene..They are truely amazing..KGH


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 14 Jun 00 - 05:06 PM

Janis Joplin has always seemed to me to be the perfect embodiment of a way of singing, as is Edith Piaf, in another, or Billie Holiday in another. Since it couldn't possibly be done better by anyone else, it must (in the sense of anything human at all) be perfect.

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: radriano
Date: 14 Jun 00 - 07:19 PM

Why are we spending time on this? After all, one person's idea of perfect is not universal. Can't we just enjoy the diversity of singers?

I know, I know, don't read the thread if you don't want to. Couldn't help myself.

radriano


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: bbelle
Date: 14 Jun 00 - 09:13 PM

radriano ... quit kvetching ... at least the thread is about music ... moonchild


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jun 00 - 09:38 PM

Its a point radriano, but its really interesting to see the individual preferences. I'd agree that we'll never agree on perfection, but the subject for me might better be asked on a per style basis which is why I liked moon and Peter's posts above. Love her or hate her, when it comes to delivery in that type of thing, Joplin is tough to beat and it could be she is the only one in the genre.

I don't think there's an argument here yet, or at least not a "What is Folk" type thing going on at this point.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Marion
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 09:25 AM

Julie Andrews.

The hills are alive...


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 09:31 AM

Eva Cassidy..

On her Songbird album, she sang Sting's "Fields of Gold", and "Over the Rainbow", simply, to accoustic guitar accompaniment in a soaring, clear, pure voice that leaves me breathless every time I hear it..

Cheers


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: jayohjo
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 10:39 AM

I know this is thread creep a bit, and I've probably said it before, but I do think there is something incredible about family voices and blood ties singing together - it can really send a shiver down your spine, obviously especially if the singers are both fntastic in their own right - look how many groups have been made up of families over the years. And Liza Carthy & Norma singing together, and when Lal was alive, are of course amazing.

jayohjoXX


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: GUEST,lindbrite
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 05:52 AM

Ladies: The miraculous Sandy Denny - head and shoulders above the rest for emotion, haunting vulnerability, pure beauty. also rans: Joni Mitchell Aretha Franklin Dionne Warwick

Chaps: definitely not Bert Jansch! although I love his playing. Roy Orbison and Elvis get my vote


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 07:11 AM

Just read this refreshed thread, and would like to express the hope that when Spaw's ears got fixed so that he could hear Tony McManus properly, they also enabled him to hear Janis Joplin properly ..............:->

Murray


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Subject: RE: BS: Perfect singers
From: LR Mole
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 10:56 AM

Leah Kunkel.The Roches.James Taylor. Jimmy Witherspoon.The Incomparable Lili von Shtup. But not Sting.


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Mudcat time: 21 November 2:02 PM EST

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