Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Dave Earl
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:00 AM

OK everyone read the press release on the other Thread.

It's going to happen whether you like the idea or not.

Dave Earl

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,From Cleveland Ohio
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:44 PM

The name's Bud Ms. Lizzie.

I don't want to be disrespectful or anything Ms. but I sure can think of better things to do if I cross the pond than wander around a Churchyard looking at crooked gravestones.

We do have gravestones here in Ohio as well y'know.

I only posted because I was amused to read about all you brits arguing over the future of one small festival.

Is it some game you brits play to while away the winter months.

Like I said the arguing sure turns me off your festival.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Lizzie still in Sidmouth!
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 10:29 AM

Dear 'Guest from Cleveland, Ohio' Hey! I didn't know the Sidmouth Murder Campaign had reached you out there! So what's Ohio like then?

Listen, you come to Sidmouth next year and you won't be turned off!
No Sirreee! You'll be seriously Turned ON! Trust me!!! :-) :-)

So, tell me, why don't they give you names out in Cleveland, or are you all called GUEST? That must be a bit confusing!! If you come to Sidmouth, I'll give you a Proper English Name, we can search the ancent Churchyard together and look at all the old, moss covered, crooked gravestones! There are some GREAT names on them!   I'm sure I'll find you one that you like!

Anyway, there is NO other Festival in the world that gets people talking and arguing like Sidmouth! Of course, I'm too busy to argue as I'm busy dreaming of Show of Hands next summer in The Arena! They always put a smile on my face! Bit like this thread! Wonderful isn't it!! One of the best threads on Mudcat!! :-) :-)

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,From Cleveland Ohio
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:59 PM

You Brits sure know how to turn people off your festival

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:20 PM

You really should be in bed by now children.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:15 PM

"Shouldn't be difficult to spend lots of money in Sidmouth next year Anne. The shops and pubs will be empty so you'll be served quickly ... wretched folkies will be around to block your way with their wretched instruments and clanging bells on their legs"

When exactly next year will this quiet time be? I went to Sidmouth one January and it was heaving! Not with musicians or morris dancers though - you are right there.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:11 PM

"Steve Harris should not slag off Steve Heap who kept Sidmouth going for years. The bile coming from Steve and his supporters is harming Sidmouth's future, not helping it. "

There does seem to be a serious literacy problem on this board. I haven't slagged off Steve Heap - indeed my recent post cast him as "brave Sir Heap fighting the evil Count Sill"

I'm not aware of having supporters. And there's this persistent belief that I'm a festival organiser despite 2 categoric denials.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Guest up North
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 08:58 AM

Guest, Anon, is a first-class lots-of-other-things-wot-I-could-think-of. What a sad, sour, bitter, twisted view. Why inflict it on the rest of us?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GRex
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 08:24 AM

Guest, Anon is a 1st class pessimist isn't he. Most of my friends & I will be there & intend to enjoy ourselves.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 07:46 AM

Shouldn't be difficult to spend lots of money in Sidmouth next year Anne. The shops and pubs will be empty so you'll be served quickly. Nobody will have sold out of anything. You won't have to wait hours for a table in caffs or restaurants. There will be no queues for concerts or workshops and none of the workshops will have been sold out. You'll even be able to walk round Sidmouth and along the Prom more easily as none of those wretched folkies will be around to block your way with their wretched instruments and clanging bells on their legs. Hope you have a great time.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 11:04 PM

In the past I have always found it difficult to spend money at Sidmouth - really.

I try to spend as much time there as possible, some years I have only had the weekend, some years the weekend and last Friday, or Thursday and Friday. A few years I could stay for the whole week.

As I don't have time for dancing and prefer to perform rather than listen I go to the pavillion cafe bar, the sea front - last year I could sing in the Middle Bar thanks to it being almost smoke free. Being there all week I took my drum to the motley morris.

I do go and look at things in the Arena - but I like to play rock and roll cds, mostly, I have all the musical instruments I need, and I don't even like the food on sale there.

I might like to have gone to some of the workshops - but by the time I knew what there was all the books of tickets were sold, and the information was that without a season ticket or workshop ticket there was no entrance. I did find out that they had changed the rules but too late for all but one workshop and that at the very last minute.

If I buy a season ticket I am denying one to someone who will actually use it for dances and concerts, but I do have money to spend - most years I have spent scarcely 1/3rd of the amount I had available.

I do hope that the new management will have better information for people 'on the fringe' and maybe even provide a good reason to spend a bit more money at Sidmouth.

Anne

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Toby Jug
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:44 PM

Steve Harris should not slag off Steve Heap who kept Sidmouth going for years. The bile coming from Steve and his supporters is harming Sidmouth's future, not helping it.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Adrianl
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:35 PM

No I stick by what is said.

"As far as I can see many people are working to carry this on in 2005 to create a base to continue in the future" (2006 and beyond). "I hope they succeed."

Adrian

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:23 PM

Adrian, the only quibble I have with your post is the date.
Many people are working to carry this out in...2006.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Adrianl
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:17 PM

It saddens me to see so much anger from people about what they say that Sidmouth Fesival should or should not be.

I have only been going to Sidmouth for the last four years but it seems to me that its strength was it variety. You could regard it as a series of parallel festivals going on at the same town. English Ceilidh, Social Dance, Large Arena events, acoustic sessions, morris etc. If you wanted you could stay within one stream but its strength was created by people moving from one stream to another. As far as I can see many people are working to carry this on in 2005 to create a base to continue in the future. I hope they succeed.

Adrian

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:55 PM

Just to let Lizzie know, in case she imagines it was, that GUEST above wasn't me.
(Actually, my guess is that it was probably the goat...)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:48 PM

Sad old person with nothing better to do than whinge about those who make comments about your Sidmouth!!!!.
You make me feel a lot better for not coming next year if we have to put up with people like you.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Lizzie still in Sidmouth!
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:37 PM

Hello Guys! I'm just SO pleased that all you Miserable Moaning Minnies above aren't coming to Sidmouth!! I really am! Please, please, please, promise me you WON'T change your minds and come! I just couldn't BEAR it! After all, this is MY town and I don't want you moaners and stirrers here!

All of you who ARE coming, are coming for the right reasons! Because you LOVE Sidmouth and what it stands for. It's you who are going to make the Folk Week! It REALLY is THAT simple! :-) :-)

You'll not be walking around moaning about this and tut-tutting about that! Nope! You'll be dancing, sitting in the parks playing music, down on the Seafront chatting to each other and watching all the singers and the dancers. In The Bedford, where you've gathered for years and years, and The Swan and The Anchor!

Up in Connaught Gardens or tickling your toes in the waves, climbing on the Rock Islands and sitting in Absolute Ecstasy in The Arena watching Show of Hands,(sigh!) and The Battlefield Band.(Yey!) Then there's all those Magnificent Morris Dancers, twirling and swirling all over town, outside Fields, round by the Church, where the squirrels all sit on the gravestones, and on to Fiddlers Green, by the bus stops.

But BEST of ALL! NO MOANING MINNIES OR MICKEYS at Sidmouth Folk Week!! Just people with smiles on their faces having a good time!
I just can't wait for all you Sidmouth Groupies to get here! I really can't! :-) :-)

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 12:10 PM

"put Steve Harris out of his misery. With people like him promoting Sidmouth 2005 who needs enemies?"

Steve Wozniak said I was one of the promoters for reasons best known to himself.

If you want to believe that Sidmouth traders are rich, tight idiots who held out against Steve Heap for years but will finally capitulate in the face of a "folkie strike" in 2005, carry on! Let's have your picket lines by the Bowd Inn, a sit-in on the Ham and running battles with the blackleg Middle Bar Singers!

It's a great idea for a long ballad? A verse about the brave Sir Heap
fighting the evil Count Sill and the wicked Screaming Lord Stuart and his horde of devliish Wurzels! :-)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Schantieman
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 12:04 PM

IMHO, the best type of festival is a small, non-commercial one, with sing-songs, music sessions and non-amplified ceilidhs for people who want to sing, make music and dance. That's what I'd like to see at Sidmouth (and elsewhere) in 2005.

Once you start putting on big concerts and big ceilidhs it starts getting expensive and un-folky. That's what' happened to Sidmouth in spades in the last 50 years. Let's get back to basics.

Steve

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Lowestoft Folkie
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:49 AM

Show of Hands are O.K. The rest of the names being mentioned for the Arena are awful. They're certain to keep folkies with any street cred well away from Sidmouth next summer.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:47 AM

With all the people they could have chosen they choose them.Well i never, another long term Sidmouth goer going to another festival.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Wurzel Hater
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 11:41 AM

Oh but it gets worse...The Strawbs and Show of Hands as well.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:45 AM

Sorry but most traditional folkies would not be seen dead listening to the Wurzels!!!!!!.I am one of them so if they are top of the guest list count me out.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 10:39 AM

Sounds like the Wurzels will be playing a benefit for the Council instead of raising funds for the festival Steve.

BTW Steve. What's become of Councillor Stuart Hughes? He seems to have gone all quiet now his plans for 'StuFest 2005' have gone down like a whore in a brothel?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 07:10 AM

It is EDDC that may need putting out of its misery soon. Their spending review may need to find savings of £4 million per year out of a budget of £45 million (according to a press report this week). The review even includes considering selling off the Knowle - which could include the land where the arena events are held.

In years past, the Knowle was an up-market hotel. That was before cheap air travel. Knocking it down might be a logical next step - they have just spent £100,000 on a new plate glass and superior chipboard entrance foyer. In the old days of the PSA (who used to look after central government buildings before privatisation swept all before it) we always used to say that you could tell which was the next edifice to be demolished because it would just have been repainted. The various departments never used to talk to each other.

Enough of this nostalgia, and let's hear it for the Wurzels.....

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Sidmouth resident
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 06:22 AM

Could someone please put Steve Harris out of his misery. With people like him promoting Sidmouth 2005 who needs enemies?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 06:47 PM

"Steve Harris. If you are one of the people behind Sidmouth 2005"

You mustn't believe everything Steve W says!

"You're just sooooooo negative and critical of anyone who expresses an honest opinion you don't like."

In sad contrast to your own kind and cheerful interest in my opinions :-)

"If the traders who put so little money into past festivals are happy to manage without my hard-earned cash next August then fine ... What I do know is that my money won't be going through their tills again until we have a full festival once more"

So you'll only be going to festivals that the locality really needs and who show it with extensive sponsorship? Very altruistic.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 06:12 AM

Your right Moneypenny we want the old Sidmouth not a fringe festival,it should have a year off and come back in 2006 with a bang and money invested into the festival should not be wasted next year.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Moneypenny
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:28 PM

Steve Harris. If you are one of the people behind Sidmouth 2005 then small wonder the festival is in such trouble. You're just sooooooo negative and critical of anyone who expresses an honest opinion you don't like. If the traders who put so little money into past festivals are happy to manage without my hard-earned cash next August then fine. Whether "they failed to notice it going through their tills" I know not. What I do know is that my money won't be going through their tills again until we have a full festival once more, hopefully this time with more support from both traders and council.

BTW I find the responses on mudcat from the supposed organisers of Sidmouth 2005 profoundly depressing. If you really want to persuade people to return to Sidmouth then lighten-up and think about the criticisms and concerns from longtime festival patrons instead of dismissing us all out-of-hand. We just want the REAL Sidmouth festival back. We shouldn't be criticised for that.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 01:52 PM

"The money that gets spent in Sidmouth is not just a one-off,and goes around and around. If the landlord of the Anchor has a particularly good year thanks in part to the festival goers then he might spend some money on e.g. redecoration or alterations. He may use a local builder, who might then use the Radway for a pint after work"

Quite a good example except that most of the money spent at the Anchor goes straight out of the town to brewers, food supploers, etc. I'm sure I saw a claim that every pound you spent magically multplied to become £39! My guess is that less than 39p stays in the town.

Another good thing about the Anchor example though is that it's one of the few businesses that does make a lot of money at festival time. Or maybe their membership of the patrons scheme and giving the venue is just stupidity of another sort :-)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 01:35 PM

"And I get damn annoyed when the likes of Steve Harris say that festival-goers hardly spend any money in Sidmouth!"

You are interpreting what I actually said EXTREMELY creatively :-)


"I can only speak for myself but I spend in excess of £1,000 every time I visit the Sidmouth Festival."

Sure, but that only deepens the mystery. Why don't the traders worry about losing your money? Have they failed to notice it going through their tills? Are they just stupid? Or perhaps those fine hotels know how many times they could fill your bed in the first week of August - festival or not.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 05:16 AM

Steve H. - how people react to the presence of people spending money is entirely up to them.

I was simply trying to show that the AFO report was IMHO of more significance than Steve W was saying and from my own humble knowledge and experience pointing out how a tourist department generally looks at things. I was "discussing", in line with Steve's suggestion.

I know of one weekend folk festival where the local fish and chip shop which is full from Friday evening through to Sunday night and with long queues, fails to support a festival within 50 yards of his establishment. The owner will not even take an advert in the programme. Will he miss the festival if it went? Clearly he doesn't think so - perhaps on the grounds it might mean less work. Sad for festival goers but entirely up to him.

The position in Sidmouth as I have understood it, is that the traders believe that the festival-goers will be replaced by all the people who have stayed away because there is a festival on. I am thinking especially of hotels and B and B. As I said that is their decision and I personally make no comment on whether that is right or wrong. Frankly it would be a guess on my part as much as it is on theirs. They don't seem to have considered that the festival goers arrive in Sidmouth whatever the weather. But as I have repeatedly said, their decision.

One other thing I missed out of my earlier letter. The money that gets spent in Sidmouth is not just a one-off,and goes around and around. If the landlord of the Anchor has a particularly good year thanks in part to the festival goers then he might spend some money on e.g. redecoration or alterations. He may use a local builder, who might then use the Radway for a pint after work. That was a result of the festival being there - some of the money goes into the local economy in the form of extra wages and goes around and around. (I suspect that some of the AFO report figures are based on this sort of calculation but I do not know for certain). If the festival (or something to replace it) isn't there, that will not happen.

I would not try and dictate to the people of Sidmouth, the business people and their representatives how they organise their town. I confess to being sad that the festival seems to be changing. But these things happen. And I wish those re-organising next year's events all the luck in the world.

Best regards,

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Guest up North
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 04:16 AM

On Thurday 5 August I put down my box and came out of the Radway on a mission - to get some cash.

I tried 4 holes-in-the-wall before I found one that hadn't been emptied.

The time? About 7 p.m.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Moneypenny
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 10:14 PM

When did you last hear a trader tell you their profit Steve?

I can only speak for myself but I spend in excess of £1,000 every time I visit the Sidmouth Festival.

* I stay in a hotel. Often the Belmont or Victoria. I like my creature comforts!

* I eat out in restaurants. When I can get a seat. All the restaurants are normally choc-a-bloc full of other festival-goers.

* I drink in the pubs. When I can get served. The bars all appear packed with other festival-goers.

* I buy snacks, newspapers, ice creams and other goods in local shops. Always surrounded by other festival-goers.

* I use the bus to get around and sometimes even a taxi when I can find one not already booked solid by other festival-goers.

* And I get damn annoyed when the likes of Steve Harris say that festival-goers hardly spend any money in Sidmouth!

Just wait until you see how quiet it is next August when thousands like me are not around. You'll hear the traders moaning then Steve!

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: steve_harris
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 08:17 PM

"The report was produced by a respected consultancy with a professional staff. The client list of the firm is impressive"

So, to summarise your position -the consultants and the report are correct but the traders are too thick to read their own bank statements correctly?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:27 PM

So sorry:

"What people at festivals or any other tourists...."

should have read:

What people at festivals or any other tourists

Apologies.......

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:23 PM

I have sometimes supported Steve and recently commended his website via these pages. However I must take issue with his thoughts about the AFO report. I'll go into some detail on this in the hopes of throwing some light on the general subject in question.

The report was produced by a respected consultancy with a professional staff. The client list of the firm is impressive. See:
http://www.lateralthinkers.com/clients.html

If I had designed a research exercise like this then I think I would have done it in a similar way (I have been a Lecturer in Leisure and Recreation for 20 years). Large scale survey of a variety of festivals in size, location and so on, and then an in-depth follow-up on a stratified random sample.

Steve's arguments against this IMHO apply to any large scale event which is held without boundaries and therefore difficult to measure. If Sidmouth Festival was held on a large site with camping (or residence like the National) on site then its impact is easily and totally measureable, a bit like Glastonbury/Cambridge Folk Festival/Cropredy. If the festival is like Sidmouth/Edinburgh International Festival/Olympic Games - open and without boundaries then the measurement is much more difficult. Then the easiest way to get a rough idea of the impact of a festival of this type is to ask people how much they spent - tickets, transport, catering and merchandise. It isn't perfect but it is not too bad.

BUT what tourism officers often look for when measuring their own impact is in major part measured by that marketing term, social class. And "folkies" are (generally speaking) people that anyone hoping to attract an audience would kill for in terms of social class. Part of the problem in Sidmouth again IMHO is that the people look different in terms of beards and clothes. They are generally reasonably well off. Look at the cars in the car park, the mobile homes on the camp site and the instruments they play. The nearest I have seen to trouble in Sidmouth has invariably been non-festival-goers.

So it is fair to assume that they spend plenty of money in Sidmouth. Of course they spend it in the pubs and the catering outlets. Plus in my case newsagents, bookshops, antique shops,supermarket etc....One festival close to where I live reports that the local supemarket (a Co-op as it happens) has its largest turnover during festival week excepting Xmas. I would be surprised if Waitrose Sidmouth for example found it any different. What people at festivals or any other tourists DON'T do is spend money in the local ironware shops, they will not hire a plumber, carpenter etc. But nor do any other tourist.

So Sidmouth and its local council needs to make its mind up. Do they wish to attract tourists to the area and are they prepared to spend money to do so? If they are, then one of the ways they can do this is through supporting festivals and again most tourist places think they are a good idea. Sidmouth International Festival is as good as you could get in this respect. These events can be local and volunteer led, like most village fetes and indeed folk festivals, professionally led like most other events of that size or a mixture.

If they don't want tourists, then IMHO, fine - their shout.

Best regards,

Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:06 PM

The long term crisis for Sidmouth is all about funding - but at times it descends into ego trips. Leave those aside. Without resolution of a serious funding issue, it may never be the same 'international' festival again. 2005 is to support 2006 and to keep the memories of 2004 alive until 2006, as much as proves possible. Discussing finance is as central to 2005 as it is for 2006 - but different questions need asking if contributors are to produce the best possible festival in the circumstances in which everyone now finds themselves.

Other festivals also suffer from increased costs. Rational discussion of how these should be reduced and/or new sources of finance found is surely crucial to the future. In my (relatively) expert opinion, the AFO discussion of how festivals contribute to local economies is rubbish. I have stated my views and the reasons for them .http://www.seered.co.uk/folk22.htm The AFO report was produced by very well meaning people who
were knowledgeable in their field (the folk scene) but who got out of their depth. I have published my views on the company who undertook the work. I couldn't pluck a guitar if I tried (which I wouldn't) and some people couldn't analyse their way out a paper bag. There have been debates in Sidmouth about these issues for a long time and never from a proper analytical base. Hence there has been little progress.

The funding issue will not go away. The discussion needs to be taken forward. If a few large or small egos get bruised on the way, if some people wish to limit their involvement in the folk scene to making music in smoky pubs then don't try and tell other people with different perspectives and abilities that they can/cannot discuss other topics.

I have no interest in pub sessions (mainly because of the smoke!) and I would never try to tell people how to hold them or what to play or sing. Around 90% of my 'folk' interest is simply in ceilidh dancing. I am not a folk groupie. But I do have an interest in analysis and economics. (PhD in physics and many years working with scientists and economists). One reason I chose to live in Sidmouth was the Festival. My first letter in support of the Festival (stating that it surely helped to promote international understanding) was published in the Sidmouth Herald before I bought my present home. I will try to find a copy.

So is it permitted to discuss a few points central to the future funding of folk festivals - and to the Sidmouth festival in particular (both 2005 and 2006) and without being accused of 'negativity'? Thank you so much.

If people don't like rational discussion - go someplace else. The following is from the BBC thread - I posted it but their board is so inadequate in software terms I doubt many people will see it. I have never seen such a weird system - they tell me it is overloaded and due for replacement. They should just order the mudcat software and have done with it!

From BBC Board: ""Here is a challenge: find anything that is wrong on SeeRed folk pages, prove it to me and I'll change it. I have made changes within minutes when minor errors have been pointed out or when I have reproduced something that someone didn't want exposing more widely than on the muddy cat. I have, for example, argued that local taxpayers should not (perhaps) have to subsidise what is a national festival - the page is folk22.htm. It is akin to expecting residents of Birmingham to pay for the M6, the M5 and the M42 just because they happen to meet there. These are national resources and are funded nationally. Try to fault the arguments instead of just bleating.""

"Discuss" - but only if you want to and can remain polite and rational. If you can't, just ignore the discussion.

Dr Stephen J Wozniak
Sidmouth

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:32 PM

There has been confusion on the other thread about who is who. It is a good idea to register - I would urge all serious people to do so. You need only an email address and its free. I posted the following on the news thread to help clear confusion there. I hope it helps here too.......

I have posted as "Steve in Sidmouth" albeit as a guest for a long time. About the time Inspector Clouseau started to make accusations about who was who, and things started to get silly, I thought it would be better if I registered on mudcat under the same name as I had previously used. All my posts have been under Steve in Sidmouth, originally as Guest, more recently as a registered user. I am aware of NO posts as Steve of Sidmouth that were not from me - there may of course be some on other threads.

Thank you for the (few) kind comments about my SeeRed website - I receive rather more from non-mudcat sources! As for the negative feedback, I have developed a thick skin. You need one around here.

I do not know who is on the steering group - and I live here! I have offered to host photos and biographies so we could all know more but have had no response. Enough said I suppose about open government!

Would Steve Vernon care to tell us a bit about himself??

On the BBC discussion board I post as "seered in sidmouth" - always as a registered user. They do not allow "guests".

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: MBSLynne
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 01:15 PM

Has anyone noticed how many of the people called GUEST something or other on this thread are supporting the negative aspect? Or even how many who are posting negatively are only GUESTs not members? Interesting that.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Roger Hayes
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 10:08 AM

A quick observation. There is good rational consideration of the case for and against Sidmouth 2005 (and 2006) on the seered site produced by Steve in Sidmouth. It's worth reading.

The debate on this site has descended into childish mudslinging (and in the case of el punkoid nouveau offensive swearing). It's no longer worth reading.

End of story.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: rhyzla
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 09:05 AM

clap clap clap etc etc

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Guest up North
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:47 AM

(more applause...)

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: el_punkoid_nouveau
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 08:25 AM

No, Anon, you ignorant pillock - I ain't Tony Day. I'm just sick and fucking tired of arseholes being negative.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: MBSLynne
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 07:49 AM

Is there some sort of image to type that means a round of applause???

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:48 AM

What a lot of children! Sniping at each other, arguing whether it will, or will not, work out; and whether the town of Sidmouth will be sorry (or not). What a lot of noses ready to be cut off to spite an equivalent number of faces!

Grow up. This is just about lovers of folk organising something for themselves and other folk lovers. If some want to try, help them or get out of the way. If you have warnings to give, give them once - don't repeat them at nauseam.

And those who want to try staging something at Sidmouth, stop this unproductive arguing back and forth with your detractors, knuckle down, and just bloody get on and do it.

The rest is bollocks.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 06:17 AM

Steve Harris posted ""Maybe, if we all stay away in 2005 and the local bankruptcy court is NOT extra busy, the folk world will face the reality? That the people and traders of Sidmouth do not owe us a festival.""

I believe he is right. I have put a few words explaning why at the top of this page http://www.seered.co.uk/folk63.htm

You don't need to read the rest of the page - just the bullet points on the opening screen.

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 05:58 AM

Seconded, GUEST, Anon. btw, are you me?

Subject: RE: Sidmouth 2005+ - opinions
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 17 Nov 04 - 05:26 AM

Is "el punkoid nouveau" the same person as "inspector clouseau" who is the same person as "Tony Day"?

And are Stuart Hughes and all the people praising him earlier on this board all the same person and if so why have they all suddenly gone quiet?

And does anyone other than me really care?

The whole Sidmouth debate has become one big yawn. Maybe like the Festival it's time to put it to sleep.