BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....

Subject: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 06 May 05 - 08:58 PM

Well, well, well....

Ain't this somethin'?.... After giving Anthem Health Insurance Company close to $60,000 over the last ten years, after the P-Vine seeing her doctor about possibly IBS (Irritable Bowl Symdrome) or something else, Anthem has cancelled out policy...

I wish I'd just taken that $60,000 and put it into medical savings account now 'caude over that same ten year period we might have gotten $5000 ro $6000 back in perscription drugs and a few office visits and tests....

No matter, they are some $55,000 to the good and me and my wife are 45,000.001 and 45,000,002 respectively...

Welcome to George Bush's America where everything is about that 1% of the greedy rich folks who own everything and want to own more...

Anyone out there know where a couple self employed folks can get health insurance that ain't gonna screw over us again???

Thouroughly pissed off tonight...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 08:59 PM

Sorry, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: annamill
Date: 06 May 05 - 09:03 PM

Oh that is just horrible! There is nothing you can do? There has to be something illegal about that Bobert!! Hell! I'd be pissed off too!

Damn!

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 May 05 - 09:19 PM

Shit! Anthem is the Blue Cross carrier, aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 06 May 05 - 09:23 PM

Yeah, they say we can appeal.... ahhhhh, to them!!!!??????......

Like askin' a bully to stop beatin' on ya'.......
\
No, this is not illegal... Health insursance companies can canceel you if they sniff that they might have to pay out claims... Looks like the P-Vine's situation with her innards set off a red light and now we are cancelled because, how dare her, she got sick...

Lie I said, welcome to George Bush's Amerika...

I am lividly piseed off tonight... Now since we have been cancelled I don't think anyone will pick us up and if so won't cover anything having to do with the P-Vine's condition meaning that, after, 40 years by playin' by the rules and paying into Boss Hog's Health insurance comapnaies, we are screwed...

Like I said, it's perfectly legal and now we are gonna get a unhealthy dose of what some of the Bushite's 'tound this joint regfer to "personal responsibility" which means that should something be seriously wrong with my wife, we'll most likely loose a life time's worth of work and playing by the rules, so that the Martin Gibsons can pump out their chest and talk about "personal resonsibility"...

Yeah, hope they get big ol' jollies out of it...

Screw Bush's Amerika...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Donuel
Date: 06 May 05 - 09:51 PM

Health Insurance is now only for the healthy.
If you are not healthy you could often be canceled.
The appeals process is winable for the unrelenting stout of heart and the litigiously savvy.
Most people just roll over after the customary initial cancelation.
This increases their profit margin. If they can keep up an appeals process until the person dies the profit margin is vastly increased.

My wife is an expert in the area of federal research of health insurance companies. PM me and I will have her respond.

Sorry it happened to you but there is one good thing...at least this thread is devoid of Martin Gibson and friends with their disgusting rhetoric of brown juice anal intercourse and such.
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=80944&messages=11

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:09 PM

Yeah, Donuel, an appeal is definately in the works.... We've allready asked fir the paperwork that will be required... Problem is that you don't appeal to a sepearte agency but to the the friggin' folkls who say they domn't want to carry yer risk any more??? Like what's that all about....

I'll PM you as we get futher into this for yer wife's ideas on how to beat the crooks.... ahhhhh, which they are...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:23 PM

It may be legal but it's not ethical. Why and how did we come to sign on to that kind of obscenity? Yeh, I know it happens- but IT SHOULD NOT BE LEGAL.

In addition to Medicare I had a secondary insurance policy. At a certain point I had an annual checkup done and some medical tests followed by minor surgery. When it all shook out, Medicare paid for about 80% of the cost (standard) and I discovered that the supplemental insurance had contributed $8.00 (EIGHT DOLLARS) as its share while denying $858 it was requested to pay. I was paying $86.00 per month for three years for that $8.00. Needless to say, I no longer carry that policy.

Bobert, if you appeal, what is the probable outcome? Keep in mind that the two offices (policy and outcome)- are not the same people.

It makes me so angry- you want us to inundate the company with mail? Is there something we can do?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:27 PM

It's not just health insurance. It's all insurance. Cars, houses, property, everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:33 PM

Bobert, believe me, I understand. I have numerous horror stories myself.

Off the top of my head, three thoughts:

1. Your legislators are on your side. Make a contact, and see what's available. Each state is different. Here, we've gone through numerous programs, all well intended, but often poorly managed.

2. Many drug companies and various advocacy groups have programs to help. The Berlex company paid for my Betaseron for a year when I couldn't get any insurance company to take me. The MS society has lots of info and people to help me. There is an organization for nearly any disease. If you can't find one, there is the orphan disease group. These folks know the ropes.

3. Talk to the auxiliary people in your doctor's office. They will tell you things (sometimes whispered off the record) that your doctor cannot talk about.

Follow up on Donuel's info. Then also consider a lawyer or the "Action Reporter." Make noise - and good luck. I promise it will come out OK, eventually, but it sure is hell going through the process.

And special hugs to the P-Vine.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:45 PM

Well, I thought I heard someone whining my name. It's bobert, the big risk whining tonight and blaming his usual nemisis George Bush for everything as usual.

Face it bobert, you need to go to a nice communist country because America just isn't for you.

Bad risks drive everyone's rates up, pal. Hey, I heard Home Depot gives one a pretty decent insurance plan. How about going tomorrow and filling out an application and doing a full honest week's work?

BTW, just got a statement from my HMO that they picked up the whole $3000 emergency room visit except the $75 deductable for my step-son's visit last January when he fainted.

You called me out bobert, and here I am for you and your stooge Donuel.   Yeah, sure do love my career working for corporate America for the last 20 years. Glad I got a fine education and they value me.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 06 May 05 - 11:23 PM

Fu*k you, Martin... I worked harder this week than you have ever worked in yer in any week in your life... And this is a typical week in my life...

Like I said, screw you...

Go drop a couple of a canned goods in the po-folk collection box to make you feel all warm and fuzzy...

You ain't gotta a clue what it feels like to play by the rules, stick some $60,000 into a system and be cancelled because they get wind that someone, my wife in this case, may actaully be sick...

Fu*k you, you insensitive moron...

Go give Bush a big ol 'hummer...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: jacqui.c
Date: 06 May 05 - 11:30 PM

Bobert - sorry to hear that P-vine has health problems.

You're right - this stinks. I agree with Ebbie, it is unethical and immoral for a health provider to behave in this way. I hope that you can persuade them to reverse their decision.

Good thoughts coming to you both.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 05 - 11:34 PM

Bobert,

Get in touch with Donuel. He's a good man, and when he says his wife is up on this stuff, believe him. You need some help, buddy. Donuel's missus will get you going in the right direction.

What happened to you and your missus is bullshit. The bastards do that lots. BUT, they can be made to reverse the decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 07 May 05 - 01:46 AM

Bobert:

Sorry (but not surprised) that you got screwed.

We once got Blue Shield to reverse their decision not to accept a claim (different from cancellation) by sending them a letter which stated all the facts in detail and clearly demonstrated how dumb they had been. It ended by asking them whether they wanted to honor the claim or have us send the letter to the state insurance commissioner. They paid the claim.

You might try that technique.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 May 05 - 04:32 AM

I'm sorry for your plight, truly. It is always worth appealing, if you don't ask you don't get.

It's things like this that make us Brits appreciate our National Health service - it may be slow, dirty and inefficient, but it means that everyone gets treated without having to decide whether they can afford it or not.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 May 05 - 07:36 AM

We will certainly appeal this decision...

Meanwhile, anyone know of any other decent insurers we can talk with???

And ya', Donuel, if we run into any problems during the appeals we'll be in touch, and thanks....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 05 - 10:44 AM

Bobert, don't know about your state, but our state (MN) has an assigned risk pool for people who are in your boat.

Of course, that's gonna likely go down the toilet too, what with the ascendancy and preponderance of selfish, greedy voters like Martin Gibson, who don't believe we should have government, much less government regulation because they are too fucking cheap to pay for the government services they don't use.

Don't like paying for government services? Keep voting Republican folks...

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: DougR
Date: 07 May 05 - 11:04 AM

It would appear to me that contacting Donuel's wife, who has offered to help, might be the first thing to do before you file the appeal. She might be able to advise you in this area too. But then what do I know? I voted for your nemesis, the guy responsible for all of the ills of the world, including cancellation of your policy evidently.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 05 - 11:14 AM

Message to MG

Maybe your 20 yr career working for coporate America will come to an end soon when it is outsourced to communist China. Then MG you'll lose all your current medicare. Then you might understand and appreciate Bobert's desperate situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 May 05 - 04:04 PM

Bobert, buy another insurance policy. Aren't you incorporated? You can buy a group policy, thanks to Clinton, if you are a small business.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 05 - 05:49 PM

Bobert:

Check this out.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 09 May 05 - 09:48 AM

A survey was done after the 2004 election of people that voted for George W. Bush. They were asked what are the three most important issues to you personally which you would like to see improved in this country. Number 1 was better and cheaper healthcare for ALL citizens. Number two was decent jobs for Americans. And number 3 was better care of the environment.

When told that GWB was opposed to universal health care, had gotten legislation passed which gutted the environmental laws, and had lost over 3 million jobs in his first 4 years, most of these ignoramuses said they voted for him because he was a "good man". I'm still not sure what he's good for. Sometimes I wish he'd tie bells on his clothes, douse himself with pepper spray and take a long walk in grizzly country.

Best wishes Bobert, I hope this works out for you.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 May 05 - 10:17 AM

Guest, our state also tried the high risk pool. At first the state paid our premiums. I was one of the initial 50 to get the insurance.   Later, the company administrating the claims realized that it couldn't make ends meet, so left the state, after sabatoging all the records. We had no insurance for two months, and didn't even know it until my daughter went in for a tonsilectomy, and the doctor informed her she wasn't covered.

Next, the state tried subsidizing Anthem to take high risk people. Harpgirl, Hubby was self-employed at the time, so Anthem was happy to offer us insurance. (the agent even bragged about her salary...that's when I had to leave the room) After a year they raised my premium to $1000 per month and Hubby's to $500 per month.

Then Hubby took a job with the state government three years ago. That meant they HAD to take me. One month after he signed on, Anthem announced they would no longer serve my county for state employees.

So another insurance company picked us up. Then 18 months ago they dropped us. I think I've had at least 8 companies in the last 10 years!

Kentucky had ~18 companies serving the commonwealth 15 years ago. Then when the law said they HAD to take everyone, all but two left the state.

This is not a Bush problem...or a Clinton one. Until more young people realize the problem (need insurance) we will never get help. Most people don't even understand COBRA (continuing benefits when you lose your job). It only lasts for 18 months. They were counting the days until they could get rid of me. I had to send claims to some office in Texas, and they didn't even know how to process them.

Potability is good, but high premiums are used to get rid of people. I don't know the answer, it is extremely complex. I would hate to see the end of our lifesaving technology and drug advancements. However, I think we spend too much on end-of-life care. (My family knows to let me go.)

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 May 05 - 12:33 PM

Guest, I doubt it. Just got another great review and raise.

gee, bobert. You ought to do something about all of that anger you have. You like to blame Bush or even me for all of the problems you have.

Why don't you consider taking responsibility for your own problems. Like about your decision making in your life.

As for you working hard, keep making those puka shell bracelets, or consider getting a real job where you can get some decent benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: frogprince
Date: 09 May 05 - 01:07 PM

Martin Gibson doesn't exist; but, somewhere out there, one of the lowest belly crawling excuses for a human being on the face of the earth does exist, and he/she/it is sick enough to enjoy treating other people in this way. Words like mercy and compassion run through
the scriptures of the Jewish people line after line, page after page, but none of that has reached this allegedly Jewish person at all.
Now, "Martin", tell me that that is an anti semetic attack, or tell me something colorful about my mother.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 May 05 - 01:14 PM

bobert - that sucks! Fight it as best you can.
Sorry
Mary

afterthought - MG is a "persona" who may or may not exist, may or may not have a job which allows him to spend most of his day posting on the internet, may or may not have gotten a raise. Who cares? This thread is about bobert's problem...M.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: frogprince
Date: 09 May 05 - 01:24 PM

Point well taken, Mary; Bobert, sure sorry you guys got this dumped on you, and hope you're able to find a way to wade out of it in decent shape. Dean.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 May 05 - 02:09 PM

What a freakin' bummer! Good luck, Bobert, with that appeal ~ but cynic that I am, I ain't holding my breath for you. (Sorry!)

The self-employed, and the employees and owner/operators of small businesses, are simply screwed when it comes to health coverage in the US. Employees of the largest corporations, on the other hand, enjoy top-notch coverage at little or no expense.

Why? Because "hospitalization" (as it used to be called) was once-upon-a-time a luxury, back when most working folks could easily afford most of the medical care that was available and that they needed. Medical insurance was a luxury that employers offered as a "fringe" benefit along with just a few elite positions.

The definition of one's co-workers as one's "group" for health-insurance purposes no longer serves any meaningful purpose, and certainly does not serve justice.

Arguing that the current system is absurd, unjust, and in need of a complete overhaul is not equivalent to a call for Stalinist statism, nor indeed for carbon-copying any other nation's current solution to this problem. America is still the world's most "advanced" society, for good and for ill, hanging out further into the future than anyone else, and must take responsibility for devising a way for citizens to enjoy access to basic health care and for medical professionals to get paid.

Of course, any meaningful refrom would also undoubtedly eliminate some medical-paperwork jobs, but that will be the cost of progress ~ God knows plenty of jobs are always disappearing due to technological progress and other reasons, and constant creation of new jobs is just another part of what modern society needs to do.

Any big-business employee who actually believes he or she deserves health coverage vastly superior to that available to most other working Americans certainly suffers from head-up-the-ass syndrome. (Didn't someone recently coin a word for this condition?) A bit of self-congratulation for putting oneself into such an advantageous position is understandable and not really out of line, but you have to be crazy to believe that the pencil-pushing and wheel-spinning one performs as a cog in the military-industrial machine is in any sense more worthwhile than the truly productive and job-creating efforts that take place in the small-business/entrepreneurial sector.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:30 PM

bobert brought it on himself.

What you are ignoring is that bobert blames George Bush and he blames me. Neither one had anything to do with his losing his insurance. Typically, he is the type who points the blame everywhere but himself.

Not handling his life properly might had something to do with it. And why should I have any compassion at all for an obsessed person who does nothing but ridicule many people himself?

He sure dropped that phony folksy dialect pretty quick when his real self came out, didn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: mg
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:34 PM

Bad news. I hope we come up with a solution for universal care. Anyway, if either of you wanted to take some classes, check out the nearest community college and check out their insurance. Probably easier to keep taking a class or two and get the insurance than to pay for the insurance. About the irritable bowel, many people have gotten relief from eating 2 coconut macaroons (Archway brand is often mentioned) per day. Coconut is a miracle worker for some ailments. Check it out on the web. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:39 PM

Good heavens, Mary G. Why would one eat a macaroon if the miracle ingredient is coconut?

Reminds me of a fad diet I once saw. Quite stringent rules but every fourth day or something you could eat a hot dog! Why would I waste my meat/fat allowance on a hot dog?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:47 PM

Goes to show ya, that you can't get a decent hot dog where you live.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: mg
Date: 09 May 05 - 03:55 PM

I guess macaroons differ in different places. Here they generally are made out of coconut. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 May 05 - 05:32 PM

Now, now, Martin, you smug fat-cat S.O.B.!!!

A property-owning construction superintendant can hardly be accused of "not handling his life properly." Large numbers of highly productive American workers lack adequate health coverage, including not only the self-employed but also smaller employers who have created plenty of jobs and high-level employees of small businesses who are fairly well-compensated in terms of salary if not benefits,.

GWB is of course not solely and personally to blame for the current health-care fiasco, which has been developing willy-nilly over time since before any of us were born.

However, the wing-nut fringe of the Republican party ~ that is to say, the currently ascendant theocratic neoconservative idealogues who adopted Georgie boy as their puppet, paid the way for his nomination, and pulled strings to assure his election(s) ~ THEY'RE very much to blame, for their desperate campaign of lies and innuendo against the Clinton administration's early efforts to start exploring ways to reform health care.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: jpk
Date: 09 May 05 - 05:56 PM

to frogprince.martin gibson does exist, he justs puts an extra letter in middle,it is really MARTIN GIBON.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST,??
Date: 09 May 05 - 06:47 PM

I've never been to a gar bar. They serve fish there?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST,??
Date: 09 May 05 - 06:49 PM

But gar don't walk, they swim. MG doesn't know much about anything, does he?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: harpgirl
Date: 09 May 05 - 06:59 PM

Mary, that is a scarey and upsetting story. I wrote out a check for 808.95 today to reinstate my son on my insurance since they drop him every semester and demand that I sign a notarized form testifying to the fact that I support him. In a few months I won't be able to keep him on my insurance and we will have to do something else. But there might be some local HMO's that Bobert could buy into besides Anthem.
There just isn't any good health insurance programs at this point.

    I'm sure our little psychopath Lepus Rex, oh I mean Marvin Gibbon doesn't have any insurance where he works as a teacher's aid. But he thinks he knows what corporate america is doing for insurance and he is just plain wrong. Corporations are cancelling insurance coverage all the time and no one pays less than 200 a month for family coverage. Most pay much more.   

We desperately need an approach like Canada's.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: IvanB
Date: 09 May 05 - 07:17 PM

Bobert, you may want to think about filing a complaint with your state's insurance commission (or whatever they might call the agency that regulates insurers in your state). These folks control whether an insurance company is allowed to do business in a given state and, believe me, I know that, in Michigan at least, this sort of action on the part of insurers is something they want to hear about. If the company's business in the state is lucrative enough they certainly won't want the commission looking too closely at them.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 May 05 - 08:36 PM

Hey, like I said, we're gonna file the appeal...

But really, it is a shanme that this country has this one issue so totally screwed up in raltion to every other developed nation in the world...

I'm thinkin that if I can't find any decent health insurance that I'll just take that $800 plus and put it into a savings account and just hope that I don't have a biggie somewhere down the road....

I mean, looking back the last ten years, the health insurance industry has gotten me for about $60,000 over what I got back...

But ya' hate going that way 'cause if the biggie comes along, you loose everything...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 May 05 - 08:57 PM

Gay bar.

Harpgirl, Lepus Rex and I are not the same. In fact, him and I have gotten into it together on this forum at one time or another. I would also ask that Joe Offer put his two cents worth in to that effect or possibly Brucie.

[bleep - for antisocial behavior] So harpgirl, though I have considered the fact that you and dianavan are the same, I don't think that you are as much of a flaming dick-hating feminist.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: harpgirl
Date: 09 May 05 - 09:43 PM

Nope, le pus I just despise you....Go ahead and take him on now, Marvin. I wanta see it again....

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 10 May 05 - 01:31 PM

Bobert,


   Sorry to hear about you losing your coverage. That really sucks. Susu and I have the same insurance carrier and are not happy at all with their dealings up to date. If you find another carrier at a decent cost, consider it a blessing that you aren't with Anthem anymore.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST,perplexed
Date: 10 May 05 - 02:27 PM

Well,


Let's look at it this way.


If the unemployment number are going down and uninsured numbers are going up then it seems to me by the process of LOGICAL thinking that either taxes are too high for the individual or employers can't offer benefits like once before because the corporate taxes are too high.

That offers another question....why is it that you guys believe that healthcare is a RIGHT? I'll admit that it would be nice if everybody had it but at the expense of everybody else? That is unacceptable. Even the socialistic idea of universal healthcare sounds good on the surface but look at Canada....I read a story a few weeks back about people having to stand in long lines and waiting weeks and weeks to see a doctor and to have tests done. (I will look for the story and link to it if I can) That too, is unacceptable. The last time that I read the Bill of Rights, I didn't see where it was written that anybody should have the right of government healthcare or any healthcare for that matter. So those that do have it should be grateful and those that don't should strive to get it.


"Of course, the current labyrinth of private insurers, each with its own system of codes and categories, etc. has created a huge number of good white-collar jobs that would disappear if and when the process gets streamlined and all that private-sector paperwork gets eliminated."

The above quote was from PoppaGator's post earlier. Your idea of socialized medicine would do nothing but reverse the direction that the country is headed it as far as job creation and growth. What you are supporting is an idea that would do nothing but depress an economy that has seen significant growth in the last four years.

The numbers quoted above puts us at about 14% of the US population that's currently without some type of healthcare. That is a shame. But to tell the other 86% that do have it that some of them may lose their jobs and current coverage in order for the other 14% to have it is taking a huge leap backwards.

Think, people, Think.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 10 May 05 - 04:38 PM

Some real fuzzy math there, hubby...

Additionally, do you believe that a health insurance company has the right to drop you if you get sick?

And as fir thinkin', yeah, I think me and the P-Vine are gettin' screwed... Anthem is $60,000 to the good with us as it stands and I the fact that they can just drop us ought to be criminal.... But it isn't... It's a civil matter and guess what? Well, I'll tell ya what. I don't know if you know much about civil law but a vastly disporportunate cases are won by the richer party who can spend more on lawyers... Bobert v. Anthem? Ha... Like I got no chance at all in any civil court in the land...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 10 May 05 - 04:42 PM

and your point is?


Just because I believe it is not a "right" to have health insurance doesn't mean that I don't feel bad whenever somebody loses their current coverage due to that person filing a claim.

Bobert has worked and paid to have this coverage and it is very unfortunate that now he and his wife has lost it not due to anything that they have personally done. Anthem BC/BS has a history of doing dealings like this and might very well need to be investigated by the insurance commission.

If my company offered another carrier instead of Anthem then I would be extremely happy. They don't have to offer ANY type of coverage at all for the employees. That's why they call them "BENEFITS".

"Perplexed" is the perfect name for you. It must describe how you live your life.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: jpk
Date: 10 May 05 - 07:10 PM

yes mr gibon i am light on my feet,with a mean right and a better left.i hope yours is all paid up,before you need it again

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 10 May 05 - 07:12 PM

"If the unemployment number are going down and uninsured numbers are going up then it seems to me by the process of LOGICAL thinking that either taxes are too high for the individual or employers can't offer benefits like once before because the corporate taxes are too high."

Guest, perplexed: Your LOGICAL thinking leaves out a lot of other possibilities. Like taxes are low enough but the cost of health care is so high that neither individuals or employer's can afford it.

And, yes, let's look at Canada. While you are reporting anecdotal evidence, the facts are that Canada spends about half as much per capita on health care as the U.S. does and they have a higher life expectancy and a much lower infant mortality rate.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: CarolC
Date: 10 May 05 - 07:21 PM

So why are the insurance carriers taking people's money if they are not willing to provide the service for which they are taking the money? Isn't that stealing? Isn't stealing illegal? And what is the point of having insurance companies (and paying them money) if they aren't going to take care of people when they get sick? Isn't that the entire reason for their existance?

Think, Hubby, think.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: CarolC
Date: 10 May 05 - 07:25 PM

I'll tell you what isn't a "right". The insurance companies do not have a right to take people's money without giving them something of value in return. The customer does have a right to expect something of value in return for their money.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 May 05 - 07:28 PM

I'm in total agreement with you Carol - this really stinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 05 - 07:51 PM

Message to MG - do you really believe the big (or little) corporaton you work for will base their decision on outsourcing overseas on whether Marty in accounts payable (or whatever department you work at)got a good review or not! Do you think they give a rat's ass on your existance and well being? Get real guy, your time for the pink slip could be heading your way. Then what would you do for medical insurance?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: frogprince
Date: 10 May 05 - 09:14 PM

Of course Martin's big corporation, and it's benefits, are rock solid, unlike some little fly-by-night operation like Enron which people were foolish to sign on with...

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: heric
Date: 10 May 05 - 09:24 PM

Carol: One of the problems with health insurance is that it does not have many characteristics of a "real" insurance product, in which the cost of real future risk is spread out by mutiple subscribers. It is, instead, more like a reimbursement structure for health care services, which we have all bought into. Yes, it stinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 10 May 05 - 09:47 PM

Ya know what? If the governemnt were to just provide "catasthopic insurance" to evertone, the health insurance industry would be dead in 6 months... I mean it... SAnd that would be an affordable program.... The health insurance industry depends on people being afraid of losing one's life's accumulated assests... Nuthin more than that... Most folks have such high dedeuctibles that they never get much from their insurance companies...Mine was $2000 a year fir each of us.... So I never got much, if anything, outta the bums... If I knew that the governemnt would pick up any real biggies, like stuff over $10,000, I would fired Anthem, and set up a personal savings account fir the nickle and dime stuff....

This system is rigged to make the health insurance industry happy. When was the last time you heard about one of them going bust? Like never. Why? Well, they are awash in our cash, that's why...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: CarolC
Date: 10 May 05 - 10:40 PM

Carol: One of the problems with health insurance is that it does not have many characteristics of a "real" insurance product, in which the cost of real future risk is spread out by mutiple subscribers. It is, instead, more like a reimbursement structure for health care services, which we have all bought into. Yes, it stinks.

Why is it structured in this way?


Even the socialistic idea of universal healthcare sounds good on the surface but look at Canada....I read a story a few weeks back about people having to stand in long lines and waiting weeks and weeks to see a doctor and to have tests done.

Mr. Hubby, my husband is Canadian. He's been in the US for about six years. I asked him if he experienced any significant difference between his access to medical care in Canada, and what he has access to here in the US with Blue Cross, Blue Shield. He said his access under both systems has been about the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 10 May 05 - 11:11 PM

Yeah, CarolC, the health insurance lobby spends millions and millions of dollars (all extracted from the working class) on PR firms than propagate myths about just how bad health care is in every other developed nation....

Problem is, they are myths and not based on fact... Oh yeah, someone can come in with some "case" example but cases do not tell the collective story....

Bottom line, when I had insurance I would wait a coupke weeks fir tests... I wouold wait to see my doctor...

Face it, if yer a member of the American working class, yer gonna have to wait to get health care no matter how good the insurance...

You think Dick Cheney waits? You think George Bush waits? You think Tom DeLay waits.... That's what I'm talkin' about.... Everyone else waits... Jus like in Canada but atleast in Canada they don't get the double screwin' when the drug companies come looking fir yer wallet...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: DougR
Date: 11 May 05 - 01:04 AM

Bobert: Do you have reason to believe, had you required medical services prior to their dropping you, that Anthem would have refused to pay the bills? Did you make any use of Anthem Insurance prior to them dropping you?

Maybe it is not a total $60,000 loss if your claims prior to them dropping you were honored by the company.

Did Anthem provide you with a reason for dropping you?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: CarolC
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:05 AM

Bobert said they dropped his and his wife's policy when she was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome. I'd say that's pretty much exactly the same thing as refusing to pay her medical bills. Only distinction is that they refused to pay by dumping Bobert and the P-Vine's insurance policy prior to refusing to pay. Bobert also said that they didn't get very much benefit from the policy prior to his wife's diagnosis because their expenses mostly didn't exceed the deductible.

I'd certainly be interested to know how you would have felt, DougR, if your insurance company had dropped you and your wife upon learning about the illness that killed her instead of paying that million dollars of her medical bills that you say they paid. Had they done that, a lot of other people's premiums would probably be lower, and you would most likely be financially destitute as well as deeply in debt.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 May 05 - 03:50 AM

I was rear-ended 4 yrs ago March 19th (but who's counting), injured, can no longer work, & almost a year ago finally got disability but the medical does not kick in till July of this year. I am without medical, as I have been most of the time since the accident. Because of the antiquainted laws of Kansas, I am virtually a pauper now. Some of this is also due to the vast welfare reform @ 10 yrs back. Congress is trying to make sure that people like me do not get a buck until absolutely the last minute.   Also, bush decided to make it so that lawsuits are cut down to a minute little bit because lawsuits were "getting out of hand." Then, I will have to prove that I am still disabled every 3-4 years or so. So does a friend of mine who was born with spina bifida, who has non-working little bitty legs & is paralyzed for the most part. Makes alot of sense for the gov't to pay for a Dr. appt. for him every 3-4 years to prove he's still disabled, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Bobert
Date: 11 May 05 - 07:33 AM

Yeah, sure, Doug, during the last 10 years Anthem paid out about $10,000 in claims, mostly perscription drugs... Problem is that I paid them $70,000 during that same period of time... Accordin' to the Wes Ginny Slide Rule Iz out about $60,000 in the deal...

But on a brighter side, the pharmacist at Leesburg Pharmacy, bless his heart, who has been mixin' up this estrogen cream fir the P-Vine for the last couple of years upon discoverin' that we are cancelled just handed her a couple months supply and said "Have a nice day."

And "on a brighter side, part 2" I take aciphex for heartburn and when I told my doctor that I was cancelled she said she'd give me rwo months worth if samples fir free...

Now we ain't giving up but one of P-Vine's friends who has an insursance company says that if we loose the appeal our chances of getting another policy that's worth a danged with another compnay is slim to none...

Welcome to George Bush's America...

And Carol is right, Doug. Had your late wife's insurance company been Anthem you wouldn't have the time to play here in Mudville. You'd be workin' a cash register at Home Depot or collecting shopping carts at the local grocery store... Oh, you think you could get yer old cushy jobs back? Go look in the mirror and think again...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 11 May 05 - 09:08 AM

This is so outrageous that it made me physically sick. Personally I think Bobert's taking it pretty well - I'd be sorely tempted to go postal. This is so blatant, so criminal, so over the top. You pay the premiums faithfully in the expectation that you will be covered if you are sick. You are diagnosed with a possible illness and then you are dropped. What's the point in having insurance??? Not only are you now not insured, once you've been dropped good luck finding another company that will take you on. For the self righteous who say that the way to go is to work for a big corporation so you can get insurance I would say 1) There aren't enough jobs in corporate America to go around for everybody and 2) Wake up - companies are finding ways to not pay benefits - hiring people "part time", hiring "long term temps". It is unbelievable and disgusting that Americans are meekly accepting this state of affairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 05 - 03:25 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST,Don Firth (hinky computer)
Date: 11 May 05 - 03:29 PM

In 1976, before they banned smoking there, while working for a radio station I got up from the broadcast board to riffle through the records and the rubber tip of my forearm crutch landed on a piece of cellophane from a cigarette package that someone had carelessly dropped on the floor instead of putting it in the waste basket. I slipped, landed on the floor, and came up with a very sore knee. The knee swelled up real good, and the following day I had to go to my quack and have about 20 ccs. of fluid drained from the joint. Very sore, and I had to stay off of it for several days.

My doctor submitted the bill to my insurance company (Blue Cross at the time). Blue Cross responded very quickly. "Sorry, we don't cover things like that." So I asked myself, "Then why am I paying them $90.00 a month?" [Remember, this was back in 1976.] I asked Bob MacDonald, the station's program director, if the station had insurance for accidents that happen on the premises. He said they did, so no problem. But he went on to say that in his dealings with Blue Cross, he had found that they customarily send out a form letter saying "We don't cover that," even when it is clearly stated in the policy that they do. Under the hope that, like so many people, you haven't actually read the policy, they just run it up the flag pole, and if you salute, they're off the hook. "Go out to their office," he said, "and in their reception room where people can hear you, politely raise a little hell. I think you'll see a quick change of tune."

I did as he suggested. There were several people waiting in the reception room, so I walked up to the desk and presented the lady there with the letter, then said, not overly loud, but loud enough so everyone in the reception room could hear me, "If you folks don't cover things like this, then why am I paying you $90.00 a month?" She turned pale, looked around shifty-eyed, and hustled me down the hall and into a small cubicle. A few moments later, another woman came in. I showed her the letter and asked the same question. She said, "Oh! This is a mistake! A clerical error. Of course this is covered. My sincere apologies, Mr. Firth. We'll get a check off to your doctor immediately. Again, my apologies, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding."

The following day when I went to the station, I told Bob what had happened. "I thought so," he said. "You've got to watch the bastards every minute or they'll screw you right, left, and center."

A single payer system with full coverage would end all this nonsense. And it would be one helluva lot less expensive for everyone. But to some, that smacks of socialism, and they'd rather you simply curl up and die than even look in that direction.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 May 05 - 03:35 PM

seems to me a military, a road system and fire and police departments smack of socialism too Don....funny old world, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: jpk
Date: 11 May 05 - 04:52 PM

as reagen said,in this crisis,the gov't ain't going to fix the problem.the gov't is the damn problem.       one little reason the ins.bit is so screwed up,is all the rules that unclesam made up,that they have to play by.of course they are the ones that asked uncle sam to make up most of the rules in the first place.then uncle finished screwing it for them.but don't forget job creation. the idoits,made work[call it make work,i.e.work that is not really needed to be done]for a lot of bean counters an paper pushers.    ps i think mg must be one of these,if he works and really isn't on the dole himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: CarolC
Date: 11 May 05 - 07:12 PM

as reagen said,in this crisis,the gov't ain't going to fix the problem.the gov't is the damn problem.       one little reason the ins.bit is so screwed up,is all the rules that unclesam made up,that they have to play by.of course they are the ones that asked uncle sam to make up most of the rules in the first place

Which rules, specifically, are you suggesting are the cause of the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: GUEST,Don Firth (computer semi-functional)
Date: 12 May 05 - 01:47 PM

Reagon's little bumper sticker that says that "government doesn't solve problems, government is the problem" is not some kind of universal axiom, nor is it even partially true, although conservatives are very fond of quoting it. For a distressing number of people, a good bumper sticker, no matter how erroneous, seems to replace the necessity of thinking.

Anyway, with reasonable regulation, the way Bobert's insurance company is screwing him over would not happen. And insurance companies are not the only entities that need some kind of government oversight. Remember Enron? When private companies that supply essential services such as unilities, infrastructure, law enforcement, and health care run amok, some kind of regulation is essential for the protection of everyone. That's not socialism, that's just the kind of good government that the Constitution mandates when it says that one of the duties of government is to assure the general welfare.

Here are a couple of items that might shed some light on just how bizarre the American health care system has become:

Such diagnostic devices as CAT and MRI scanning machines cost millions of dollars per unit. In countries with relatively up-to-date health care like Canada, most of Europe, and much of Asia, including Thailand and Indonesia, if one hospital in a particular area has a CAT or MRI scanner, nearby hospitals send patients needing diagnostic scans to that hospital. This is a simple and reasonable way to do it. With one machine in the area that can be used by all, the overall cost of health care is kept down.

How this is paid for depends on the health care payment system in each country, but with a single-payer system such as many enlightened countries have, neither the hospital nor the patient need concern themselves. The system covers it. Yes, taxes are relatively high, but proportionally, in relation to income, the share of an average individual's tax that goes to support health care is far less than what a similar individual in the United States (or his or her employer) has to pay in the form of health insurance premiums. And everyone, man, woman, child, employed or unemployed, is covered. Incidentally, with a single payer system, the reduction of paperwork alone saves billions. God knows, a serious illness is bad enough without it putting someone (and often their family) so deep in debt that they will never get out.

But in the United States, competition fever and profit motive are such that if one hospital in a particular area has a CAT or MRI scanner, all the other hospitals in the area feel that they have to have one too. So they all buy them, and since they have to be paid for, they use them for everything from brain tumors to hangnails, not only charging the patient for its use, but raising the fees for all kinds of care that take place at that hospital. As a result of this kind of unnecessary and expensive duplication of facilities, health care costs go sky-high, and insurance companies raise their premiums accordingly (of course, since they are private, for-profit companies, they add a substantial mark-up to sweeten their own profit margin). Finally, adequate health care becomes prohibitively expensive for the uninsured individual, and even group health insurance rates have become so expensive that many employers who customarily include health care in their benefits package find that they, too, can no longer afford to insure their employees.

Three small anecdotal bits, but they illustrate how insane incidental charges have become in American hospitals these days. In two of these, the amounts are minuscule, but it shows the attitude that prevails in our profit-oriented system. A nickel here, a dime there:

1) A few years ago, my quack decided that my blood pressure was elevated to the point where he felt I needed to control it, so he prescribed a beta blocker. Okay, fine. With a low dose of the beta blocker, my blood pressure currently hovers around 120/70. No sweat. Now, five years ago I broke a leg badly, had to have surgery on it, and spend three weeks in a hospital.   While I was there, Barbara brought me my little plastic pill bottle containing my beta blocker prescription. I had to fight with a doctor and a couple of nurses who insisted that, rather than allowing me to administer them to myself as I had been doing for a couple of years, they had to dole them out to me--and charge me $8.00 a day to give me my own goddam pills!! I got very loud about it, and they eventually decided to drop the matter, lest I get even louder. By taking charge myself, I save (my insurance company) $176.00. Not a great deal compared to the total bill, but it all adds up, and it was ridiculous on the face of it.

2) During that stay in the hospital (surgery for a broken femur, remember, followed by rehabilitation), my insurance company also got charged for a $300.00 brain scan. One afternoon I mentioned to the rehabilitation physician that I had a headache. Now I knew it was simple muscular tension brouight on by stress (understandable, under the circumstances)--I could feel it in the back of my neck. Without blinking an eye (or offering me an $8.00 aspirin), she sent me down for a brain scan. The technician found that a) I did have a brain (contrary to what a few here may believe); and b) there was nothing at all abnormal. Totally unnecessary.

3) A good friend and fellow frequenter of Mudcat recently had a hip operation. Prior to going into the operating room, the doctor, to make sure there were no embarrassing screw-ups, handed him a ball-point pen and asked him to mark the appropriate hip, which he did. Later, when he went over the bill item by item (which not everyone bothers to do), he discovered that the doctor had charged his insurance company $8.00 (Yup. It seems that $8.00 is the minimum charge for any little incidental in a hospital) for the use for an 89 cent disposable Bic. And he handed the pen back to the doctor, so for the eight bucks, he didn't even get to keep it!

By the way, Seattle and environs have many hospitals, several of them quite large. I live in an area about a dozen blocks from an area that is so densely packed with hospitals, clinics, and health centers that it is often referred to locally as "Pill Hill." I understand that there are more MRI and CAT scanners in and around the city of Seattle than there are in all of Canada. Not that Canada has any scarcity of them.

And don't get me started on the obscene profits made by the pharmaceutical companies and their "people be damned, get the money!" philosophy. I used to know a fellow who worked for a pharmaceutical distributor . He told me what some over-the-counter drugs really cost. For example, a popular, brand-name analgesic. 98 cents per thousand, sold in "economy size" plastic bottles for $16.00 per hundred. With similar or even greater percentage profit margins on the much more expensive prescription drugs.

Stay healthy!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: jpk
Date: 12 May 05 - 05:07 PM

oh boy;enron,it should have never been in the first place.like so many such [outfits]they did not make anything,distribute anything,etc.they were speculaters,buying so much of something at a time latter on,to sell later on at a profit,during a time of short supply,made short by companys such as there's buying up the supply to sell to the most desperate bidders,i.e. they worked like most worthless commodes traders

Subject: RE: BS: Now 45,000,002 Uninsured....
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 May 05 - 06:09 PM

Wonderful examples, Don, of the waste and insanity of the current US health system. None of this benefits anyone except those with a vested interest in keeping things exactly as-is; it's certainly no better for doctors and nurses than it is for patients ~ and everyone is a potential patient!

Even the actuaries and accountants and executives who expect to make comfortable livings administrating healthcare-related paperwork should be relatively safe even in the case of effective reform ~ most of 'em anyway. A lot of lower-level clerks will be put out of work by a more efficient system, of course, and will have to find something else to do; more significantly, sales of hugely expensive equipment and plenty of pharmaceuticals will probably go way down. The sharks who make huge profits on these enterprises would have to suck it up for a quarter or two or three while looking for another way to print money for themselves.

The question is: why should the interests of so few already-privileged citizens take precedence over the general welfare of the entire nation?

The answer is: They spend obscenely large amounts of money (money the rest of us pony up when we need medical services) on lobbying Congress and on influencing the mass media. It has nothing to do with socialism vs capitalism, and everything to do with greed and lies.