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BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: jeffp Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:39 PM Peace (and anybody else, for that matter) please check out this thread. Jeff |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Peace Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:24 PM Well, he's coined a thingy (acronym(sp?). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: jeffp Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:22 PM It's something I got from my father. A wise man, my father. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Peace Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:18 PM I had to use the internet for that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: jeffp Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:15 PM Well played, Bruce. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Peace Date: 16 Aug 06 - 08:32 PM Who gives a big rat's ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: jeffp Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:23 PM WHOGABRA? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:16 PM Yeah let's play Guess which Guest is the Guest that said "This is about to get very confusing." Let the game begin... Question 1: Guest#1 who is Guest #2 Question 2: Guest#2 who is Guest #3 Question 3: Who was the Guest that once said "I couldn't care less what you think" ~{hint does the year 2001 ring any bells?] There you have it folks, 'CONFUSION' the family Game where any Guest is welcome to play. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 06 - 05:25 PM This is about to get very confusing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 16 Aug 06 - 03:20 PM Noted. I agree with their decision. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 06 - 03:16 PM I am not asking for them to justify their actions. I am simply disagreeing with them and you on the necessity of it being done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 16 Aug 06 - 03:11 PM I think Mudcat did the right thing, and they do not need to justify their actions either for that matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 06 - 03:02 PM There is a change in the tone of the place much like there was when Martin Gibson left. It was just noted but not commented on. No nastiness or gloating or snide comments. Strictly factual. I did not feel that there was any cause in that for deletion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:53 PM Okay, that is your story. You did note a change in the tone of this place and I read it differently then what you are claiming. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:50 PM Ron, It really wasn't an attempt to stir up trouble. It is not like Shambles to be gone for two days. I was simply curious as to whether he was blocked from posting. Certainly nothing bad was said in the posting. Fred |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:45 PM I applaud Mudcat for taking that post down. I read that post. People complain about Shambles and your post was not "innocent", it was an attempt to stir up crap. Shame on you! I hope that someone will remove more message. I don't mind if this one is removed either! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:41 PM It sure doesn't take long for innocent threads to be deleted here. I started one asking the innocent question of whether Shambles has been evicted from the Mudcat. There was nothing nasty and I even praised him. Within 10 minutes at the most it was gone. Maybe Shambles has a point here. That certainly was overzealous editing. I wonder how long it will take for this to be gone forever. I never thought that I would say it but Shambles...YOU ARE RIGHT. Continue fighting my man.
Here's the introductory message:
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 02:11 PM I hear a strange quietness across the Mudcat land. Can it be that Mr. Shambles has rambled on to bigger and better places? I hope that he finds a cause worthy of his persistence. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:17 PM "What stupid point do you think you're making by referring to him third person neutral?" It's passive-aggressive baiting.... From a small minded little troll who hasn't got the grapes to come out and flame the person he's angry with, so hides behind a facade of being polite.... When he's proved over and over and over that he's anything BUT polite.... He'll now come here and claim to have been infairly attacked.... When, in fact, he's made his bed, and is now being told to lay in it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Raedwulf Date: 14 Aug 06 - 04:14 PM "Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team" Roger, stop being so goddamned childish. His name is Joe. Every knows it. What stupid point do you think you're making by referring to him third person neutral? You've been talking to him for years. What is this? Some new tactic (*gasp* after all these years, an original twist on the same lame old bad joke...) to de-humanise him & garner some sympathy for yourself? I promise you it's not working. Grow up, man! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 14 Aug 06 - 12:38 PM Too afraid to answer Shambles? If setting a bad example isn't working, why do you continue to do it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:52 AM Shambles, for years you have been making empty and untruthful allegations about Mudcat editors basing message deletion on favoritism and personal likes and dislikes. I thought it was time to give some solid evidence, so people can see the typical messages we delete - and so they can understand why there should be no need for explanation or notation of these deletions. I present these messages as evidence. Surely, my evidence has as much a place in this thread as unsubstantiated allegations from Shambles. There is no baby being thrown out with the bathwater, although Shambles has done his best to mislead people into suspecting that there may be something devious about our editing practices. These are the messages that would usually be deleted in a typical three-day period at Mudcat. I think I found all of them. Shambles, if you wish to allege that there were other messages deleted during this period, prove it. I think you've slandered the Mudcat volunteers long enough. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 14 Aug 06 - 01:31 AM The concern is NOT the bathwater being thrown out. The concern is what may be getting thrown-out with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Aug 06 - 03:12 PM Too afraid to answer Shambles? If setting a bad example isn't working, why do you continue to do it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 03:01 PM I won't bother moving any more here - you get the point. Joe Offer I still am not sure what the point was (we do already know what spam is). It was not what I reqested you to do was it? Perhaps you will now do this? And perhaps you will now remove from this thread all the posts you placed here? I can't help but wonder what excitement would have been caused, judgements made and witch-hunts started - had anyone else but the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team attempted such a thing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:00 PM Well, whatever. Anyhow, my reason for moving the deleted posts here is to show people what it is that we delete. No, I suppose I can't prove that there are others I haven't revealed. You have to take my word for it. But that's it - all our deleted posts from the days since Shambles started this thread. I won't bother moving any more here - you get the point. It doesn't help to argue with Shambles, because he just says what I have to say is untrue. I've done my best to be honest, but Shambles calls me a liar. So, I guess I have nothing more to say. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 01:06 PM Subject: RE: Please Delete Spam From: Joe Offer Date: 12-Aug-06 - 01:48 PM It helps if you give us both the name and the number of the thread, and preferable the specific message number. All I find at this address is another boring Shambles thread. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:59 PM I did suggest that an excuse to close this thread and prevent debate on this issue would be found. The current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team placing in this thread of all these deleted posts - will of course provide that excuse. Please delete spam The above thread indicate the sort of silly games that this are now being encouraged to be played in the Mudcat Help and Trouble Forum. Perhaps the only posts encouraged there should be those requesting action to be taken on their own posts? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 07:04 AM Oh, you have continually challenged my "This thread is to be kept open, so Roger can say whatever it is that he needs to say" statement, and have even pointed it out to be a lie. Well, Roger, you are allowed one "complaint" thread at a time. As long as you kept your complaints in that one thread, that thread was kept open. Once you started posting your complaints in another thread, the earlier thread was closed. That's the breaks. The above explanation (for moving the goalposts) may have been an acceptable one - had the assurance you given by the Current Chief of the Mudcat Editing team, to our forum in that editing comment - This thread is to be kept open, so Roger can say whatever it is that he needs to say as long as he does not say anything in any other thread at any other time.. Perhaps you would confim that the assurance given was only? This thread is to be kept open, so Roger can say whatever it is that he needs to say. And that his assurance that that thread was not going to be closed - is perfectly clear? For there was no mention of the word 'complaint' in this assurance or any other qualification made in it - was there? And as you admit to responding to complaints from (some) other posters to justify some of your editing - your view on the desirabilty or otherwise of 'complaints' seems to depend on what they are about and who may making them. The current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team obviously does not feel that he has to honour his assurances, given in editing comments and can change his mind at any time and attempt to justify this..... Any future assurances grandly presented for public consumption by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team must be seen in the same light - to mean very little. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 13 Aug 06 - 07:01 AM Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:22 PM [..] However the question is less why this could not be done as why the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team does not WANT to do it. For I am quite sure that IF he did want to do this - or indeed anything else - it would be done - whatever its effect and whether you or I liked it or not. ------- Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:30 AM [..] And as you know my main concern is when the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Forum's excitement leads him to propose to Max... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 06:30 AM Roger, most of this stuff was deleted because somebody asked us to delete it - although it all would have all been deleted sooner or later. So these somebodies are not going to be very happy now you have decided to place it all here for whatever reason you decided to. Our forum does know what spam is and what other things are out there - without this demonstration. And again you use the method of demonstrating the sort of obviously questionable posts that few poster miss much and would judge harshly - to confuse this with the heavy-handed methods used to ensure it does not appear. The point is that these as the very same methods that are automatically imposed on far less questionable posts. When the only sure-fire way to ensure that the opinions of others are lost on our forum - is for our 'moderators' to get excited and subject them to anonymously imposed censorship and often for the slightest of reasons..... And as you know my main concern is when the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Forum's excitement leads him to propose to Max that the only way that he can impose the 'peace' that he requires - is for our forum to be changed into a members only forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,Jon Date: 13 Aug 06 - 05:25 AM Unfortunately Joe, while you can provide pretty convincing evidence that Mudcat gets spam, you can not prove that you have not been selective in what you are showing the forum. Also, under the current system, even if for example the previous post was edited manually, you will still not be able to proove that this has occured for every deletion. Don't get me wrong, I don't need convincing. I'm just commenting that whatever you do, at least under the current system, you could still be just as subject to "us not knowing the true level of censorship in our forum" as you are now. The only way that should remove that sort of doubt is system that automatically took an action, eg. assuming the "deleted messages" are hidden but remain connected to the thread, it's unlikely to be to difficult to show "message deleted" instead of the posts content for messages marked as deleted. That type of thing though is something I know you can not do yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Aug 06 - 03:14 AM Roger, most of this stuff was deleted because somebody asked us to delete it - although it all would have all been deleted sooner or later. It seems that if Internet forums allow Spam to be posted, it gets posted in increasing quantities. I don't know why, but that's what seems to happen. I moved the deleted messages from the last few days to this thread, so that people can see that we're telling the truth - that the messages we delete are just plain garbarge, and that such deletions should require no explanation or justification. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:54 AM Give us a break - we volunteer editors don't get paid to do this work, you know. We're here because we enjoy being part of this community and we want it to be a peaceful, enjoyable place to visit. -Joe Offer- If you can't stand the heat - no one is forcing you to stay in the kitchen and feel that when you get hot and bothered you have some right to throw pots and pans at the customers. Give us a break - we ordinary posters don't get paid to do this either, you know. We're here because we enjoy being part of this community and we want it to be a peaceful, enjoyable place to visit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 13 Aug 06 - 02:43 AM Well, I think we have a tendency to respond by counterattacking large populations of people who have nothing to do with terrorism. I think that our responses to terrorism have been misdirected and ineffective, and have only served to make a bad situation worse by destroying any sympathy the world had for us. So, yeah, I think we need to re-think things - to respond, but to respond judiciously. -Joe Offer- This not to make any judgement about the relative importance of two totally different issues. But I do think the criticism and the suggested approach has some relevance for this issue - if the word 'terrorism' in the above was substituted for words like ' abusive personal attacks' - 'flaming' - trolling' - spamming etc. Generally the measures taken to try and deal with the (thankfully still rare) extreme terrorist actions - mostly affect and restrict the daily lives of ordinary people. As we can see currently, where thankfully there has been no loss of life. But the publicity and disruption caused by the new additional restrictions - on top of the ones already in place - for ordinary air-travellers, have had the effect disired by the terrorists anyway. I have requested a few things here. Most of them have not been accepted. I did NOT request that all recently deleted threads be placed in this one. But now the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has decided to do this - no doubt the blame for this will be shifted to me. When posters complain that the inclusion of such posts have offended and corrupted them............ But their appearance unbidden in this thread does not seem to have made the the whole Mudcat world crumble. So perhaps these posts can safely be left where they are posted and all the restrictions, secrecy and division that is justified to deal with such things - can be seen to be disproportionate and re-thought? Part of the reason for the request that all imposed censorship actions be recorded was in the hope that this would result in less imposed censorship actions. Especially as the automatic way of dealing with any perceived problems. And that an attempt could then be made to find less drastic solutions and a return to all of our 'moderators' (and posters) setting a better example of posting behaviour and leading by this example. And that those posters who are currently encouraged by the example set - to only post to make personal judgements about the worth of their fellow posters and complain about what others chose to post - can be told to mind their own business and to concentrate on their own posts - by our (few remaining) known and still credible 'moderators'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,depressed Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:19 AM sad twats with delete buttons... fuck you you useless shite pellet |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,depred Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:17 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: mudchat, why is there never anyone there From: GUEST,depressed Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:16 AM because the sad fucking loser wankers who hold power over life and death.. [in their own sad loser immagination] stifle creativity and expression here with the pathetic little delete button they command.. sad fucks they are |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Aug 06 - 12:02 AM Too afraid to answer Shambles? If setting a bad example isn't working, why do you continue to do it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: F*** it whats the point.. why bother ? From: Peace Date: 12 Aug 06 - 11:57 PM This type of shit is the worst of trolling. Gets people concerned for no fucking reason. Piss off, please! |
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Subject: RE: BS: F*** it whats the point.. why bother ? From: GUEST Date: 12 Aug 06 - 11:54 PM canty remeber f i took my tablet and i dont care if i take too curz no no else fier cares so why skiould i i dont givegurt momnkeys fudki t if i live or die useless s pile of bolloks it is |
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Subject: BS: F*** it whats the point.. why bother ? From: GUEST,depressed Date: 12 Aug 06 - 11:32 PM well... who the f*** cares anyway..? sod it! its all a waste of time and no one gives a monkeys anyway.. bollocks..!!!! wheres my anti depressant tablets...? f** it must have got confused and swallowed them all in one go teatime last night..... thats a nice hit thatd felod ew\inh fom te..zdsjsddddddddddddd im ok dont wh\nt to gerthospirtlized and sexcrineed cusx inm ok realy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Peace Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:32 PM "Subject: RE: Review: The Dubliners - What's the big deal? From: GUEST,Porn - PM Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:33 AM" Hey Joe, why you leaving this crap on the 'cat? Wake up there, son. Jaysus, what the hell kinda site administrator ARE you? LOLOLOLOLOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Aug 06 - 03:13 PM OK, Roger. You judge. I have undeleted every message the volunteers and I deleted in the last three days, and I have moved them all into this thread. Please tell the nice people why I should have to post an explanation for all of these deletions. These are normal examples of the messages we delete. You will note that they are ALL porn or Spam messages from anonymous posters, except for one message from weelittledrummer that doesn't make sense without the porn present. I'm sure weelittledrummer won't mind. As for a Licensing Act thread being closed, the only one I can think of, is Affected by the Licensing Act 2003. It was closed (with explanation and crosslink posted) for a few days in April or May, 2006, because somebody had started a newer thread with the same title. We do this occasionally when there are two threads on the same subject, to avoid splitting and confusing the discussion. Upon request from Shambles, I reopened the thread. I also combined the newer thread with the older one. Shambles, if this is the thread you are referring to, please be sure not to mislead the nice people. Be sure to tell them that this took place in April or May, that it was closed because there was another thread active on the same subject, and that the thread was reopened at your request within a few days. You might even provide a link to the threads you're talking about, so people will understand. But what's the sense in continuing to argue about the closing of a thread when that action was reversed three months ago? Oh, you have continually challenged my "This thread is to be kept open, so Roger can say whatever it is that he needs to say" statement, and have even pointed it out to be a lie. Well, Roger, you are allowed one "complaint" thread at a time. As long as you kept your complaints in that one thread, that thread was kept open. Once you started posting your complaints in another thread, the earlier thread was closed. That's the breaks. Most people naturally confine their remarks on a subject to the current discussion on that topic. Over a period of a number of years, you continually posted the same information over a number of threads, all at the same time - so very moderate measures were taken to compel you to act as others do naturally. Let me repeat: no attempt has been made to control the content of your posts, but we have had to channel your remarks into a single thread, instead of continuing to allow you to post the very same thing in a number of threads at the same time. It's your constant repetition that's the problem, Roger, not the content of your posts. I usually try to answer all questions the first time they're asked. When the same person asks the same question over and over again, I don't bother answering. These unanswered questions do tend to make it appear that I'm withholding information, but that's not the case. It does, however, make it very difficult for the rest of us to carry on a reasonable, productive discussion of Mudcat editing. The volunteers and I would very much like to serve the needs and wishes of this community, but not the petty paranoia of one individual. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:57 PM The problem, in your case, is your compulsion to flood the Forum with the same words, over and over again - there is strong evidence of that compulsion in this very thread. So shambles demonstrates his compulsion again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:43 PM For I am quite sure that IF he did want to do this - or indeed anything else - it would be done - whatever its effect and whether you or I liked it or not. And that he would do this - even after assuring our forum (in an editing comment) that it would not be done. A fact evidenced in this thread by me - and still ignored by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team..... And who still expects his words to be given some credit....... The problem, in your case, is your compulsion to flood the Forum with the same words, over and over again - there is strong evidence of that compulsion in this very thread. Thus far in this one thread, you have copy-pasted my "This thread is closed" comment four times, and my "this thread is to be kept open" comment a number of times. -Joe Offer- Instead of just using this as an excuse for more groundless personal judgements - perhaps it can be explained to our forum by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team why this assurance given by him to our forum in an editing comment - was not honoured? And why no apology is provided for not doing so? And why our forum should expect any other assurance given by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing team to be honoured? Or instead of this - will some urgent excuse be found by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team to close this thread also? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:25 PM Too afraid to answer Shambles? If setting a bad example isn't working, why do you continue to do it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:22 PM Shambles, when I asked Joe why we couldn't put a message in place of the deletion, he gave me a perfectly good answer. I agree with much of what you say also. And I am glad to see that you are satisfied with your answer. I note your request, but as I consider what you may choose to post is a matter for you - perhaps you will accept that what I choose to post is a matter for me? However the question is less why this could not be done as why the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team does not WANT to do it. For I am quite sure that IF he did want to do this - or indeed anything else - it would be done - whatever its effect and whether you or I liked it or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:19 PM Too afraid to answer Shambles? If setting a bad example isn't working, why do you continue to do it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 12 Aug 06 - 02:11 PM I am unaware of any such thread that is closed. If such is the case, please direct me to the thread and I will review the action. -Joe Offer- You may have missed the above editing comment as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh the thread. Joe - are you serious trying to inform our forum that you did NOT close the thread that I am referring to? Or that you are going to continue to maintain a pretence to our forum that you are not fully aware of which thread I am referring to? Which having closed it - you are of course perfectly aware. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,Fieldvole Date: 12 Aug 06 - 01:54 PM Shambles, when I asked Joe why we couldn't put a message in place of the deletion, he gave me a perfectly good answer. That it is more awkward for the admin team to do that, on this particular type of message board, than it is to just delete the post. It also bu**ers up THEIR record of events, and that is more important than OUR knowing where a post has gone to. Now, much as I agree in a way with a lot of what you are saying, that is the answer that is given and we will just have to leave it at that and live with it. PLEASE!! Fieldvole |