BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:34 PM

(I'm sorry you didn't 'hear' my support.)

Ivor - If you are offering support for the concept of all posters being seen to be treated equally and being able to rely on seeing their words as posted - I would appreciate it if one didn't have to struggle quite so hard to hear it in your posts.

You have yet to address the fact that despite the assurance given to you and our forum - had you posted any of your 'interesting/amusing' posts to any of the the deleted threads listed here - they would have been deleted.

Perhaps you could address this as it makes your statement, that just for the record, I said if we write interestingly
etc. and debate vaguely reasonably,it'll stay in look more than a bit unsupported by the facts.....

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:12 PM

Just for the record, I said if we write interestingly
etc. and debate vaguely reasonably,it'll stay in -
something like that. I said nothing about what might happen
to anyone who posts otherwise.

   (I rather mind being misread like that.)

   I agree 'musing' is not the same as 'reasoning',tho'
I was reasoning, I just used the poetic licence of an
alternative word.

   (I'm sorry what I wrote was not read that way.)

   Most posts (and lack of them) are open to 'other   interpretations', one of the hazards which make a genuine
debate soooooo difficult.

   (I slightly mind my generous interpretation being
ignored.)


   I did support you, Shambles, in your right to your
stance. I'm all for a watch on the moderators - I don't
know anyone who is infallible - does anyone?

   (I'm sorry you didn't 'hear' my support.)

   Others quite as much as Shambles engage in missing
the point, irrelevancy, ignoring points (I've experienced
many of my points blithely ignored), turning to abuse, misinterpreting.

   (A persistance of that is no doubt a turn-off for
some 'catters.)

   Some people seem to find understanding the manifest
meaning of others difficult. Some seem bent on not
reading properly.

   (A persistance of .....................).

    Over to the irresistable forces and the immovable objects.

    Enjoy.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 12:03 PM

Ron "I can't be bothered to read the history of this" Olesko, I believe I respect you about the same amount you show evidence of respecting me. There are some people here who make assumptions about what admin volunteers can and can't, will or won't do, and they're guessing. You, Ron, are among them. You think things should be different, and you have to blame somebody. You don't know what you're talking about, can't be bothered to try to learn. You blame us - you blame ME - because people get pissed off at the pride and persistence of the willfully ignorant who don't think their inability to consier other people for one second and stop picking at this will reflect on them.

People form opinions of you here based on what they read. You've made 168 posts to this thread. Listen, when/if Max makes Mudcat members only, we can block him. Until then, there's no guarantee, and if you don't think he'll keep trying to get back in, you're deluded. He doesn't seem interested in much else. Max asked Shambles to leave and he won't. People are frustrated, so what you see now is street justice. I don't care much for moderation, which is why I don't call myself a 'moderator'. I don't like watching people act like assholes, so I don't read this thread much. The thing is, some other volunteer can volunteer to read this shit and try to make it not look like shit.
The people who keep coming back should be the ones who love, or at least learn to tolerate, being neck deep in shit.

And Ron, I don't post my opinions anonymously. When you say I'm not living up to my expectations, what do you think they are? What are your expectations for yourself? Posting 168 times to a years' old excuse of an argument all based around the monomaniacal 'pivot man' and focused on the apparent goal of continuing forever?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 11:28 AM

Wrong Ron. There is only one person who can put this to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 11:27 AM

... and for the record, I love MOST of Spaw's comments. I like the honesty that comes out and I would love to sit down and spend a few hours learning from Spaw.   I just would not expect to be called some of the names to my face and anyone who would use such terms would probably be expecting the consequences.

Sorry for using you as an example Spaw. I guess some people did not "get it".

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 11:20 AM

Jeffp - everything you say is correct. You just miss the point. Of course I would have a problem. I know I would be taken away in handcuffs, or on a stretcher as well. Instigation does not justify violence. My point was that Catspaw (or any of the others) probably would not speak the way they have in person. We would probably still disagree, but I truly believe their would be more civility and understanding. The work of a moderator is to prevent these escalations.   They take on the role of a bartender who would either stop serving or kick us out before glasses start flying.

I fully understand the issues that people have with Shambles, and again I am not defending him. To use another tired phrase - two wrongs do not make a right.

Maybe you should take a look in that mirror as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 11:15 AM

I am not defending Shambles. I agree, his posts show that he has an issue with the moderators.   However, the moderators have also shown an inconsistency.   If they truly believed what they preached, they would not act this out in public. Whatever actions they would impose on Shambles - or any member - should be done in private.

I fully appreciate the work of the moderators, but no one walks on water. When they are wrong, they are wrong. Granted it is their site and they can do as they wish, but that does not mean their actions are above criticism.   They are responsible for Shambles and all the bitter words that have been said on this site. They are responsible for keeping this party going.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: jeffp
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 11:11 AM

If Catspaw and I were sitting at a bar and talked to me with that tone and those insults, I guarantee Spaw would leave in a stretcher - and I am not a violent man.

Your statement is internally inconsistent. If you threaten Spaw like this, then you are a violent man. I also suspect that if you caused anybody to leave in a stretcher then you would leave in the back of a police car. I know that if you tried anything like that with me, you would have a serious problem or three.

Now, what's that you were saying about people being brave on the internet. Take a good look in the mirror, Ron.

Then take a couple of weeks and read all of Shambles's posts dating back to his PEL crusade a few years ago. You will then gain some perspective on the whole situation. A perspective which you obviously lack.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Friend of a hated Moderator
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:49 AM

If Shambles cared to be honest, he could tell you why he is still posting on Mudcat.
It may be something to do with the reason he doesn't want the site to become members only.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:39 AM

You are wrong on one point Ron. The mods are the targets of shambles, not the other way round.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:04 AM

Shambles makes a good point. It should be very obvious to anyone who reads these threads that this type of behavior is allowed to flourish and in fact encouraged by support of the moderators and by the lack of action from the owner of this site.

If there were any interest in truly respecting the so-called "values" of this website, then this thread would not exist, Shambles would either be banned or have no restrictions, and some of the vile comments would have been deleted as well. If Catspaw and I were sitting at a bar and talked to me with that tone and those insults, I guarantee Spaw would leave in a stretcher - and I am not a violent man. Not to single out Spaw, who is really a puppy dog at heart, but people are saying things - often under the cloak of anonymity - that they would never think of saying to someones face.   People tend to get brave when they post on these sites, and by allowing anonymous posts you encourage this sort of behavior.   

What we are witnessing is the moderators and owners failure to live up to their own expectations. It appears they are letting Shambles be the easy scapegoat in an attempt to mask the problems. Shambles, because of his nature, is an easy target. I don't approve of his tactics, and I think he if full of himself when he attempts to make analogy to violent attacks in the street or likens himself to characters in Animal Farm. This is just a website and these issues are truly trivial.

What it boils down to is that this site is privately owned and they can do as they wish, but be honest about it. Don't lie to us - there is enough of that in the world.

As the saying goes - shit or get off the pot.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 09:26 AM

"The thin response is hadly surprising - given the sort of treatment that is meeted out to any poster who is brave enough to suggest that most posters here probably do deserve better and should not be subjected to bullying, double standards and hypocrisy."

Shambles,

If you are not happy here then feel free to leave. See if the types of postings that you place here will last even 1 day at another site.

It sure would be nice if our moderators would delete your complaints rather then allowing you to rant on and on and on. I belong to many other boards and absolutely none of them would allow a thread such as this.

Count your lucky stars that Max is so lenient with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 04:41 AM

'We're cool with how things are done.'

A very few of group of people subjected to a violent physical attack in the street or bar - may have been masochists who, after the event stated that enjoyed every moment of their pain and humiliation - saying in effect that they were cool with the way things were done.

Does that in any way ease the pain of the non-maschist majority who were also subjected to this violence or make the display of violence acceptable?

I suggest that all the posters to this forum deserve better than the attitude expressed in the following post. But at least it is a little more honest than usual about the real motivations behind these double standards.

Seemingly the pretence that it is motivated by some noble justification on behalf of and in order to protect the interests of our forum, has been abandoned. I am judged to be 'not a nice person'.

All posters can now see from the follwing that the special restrictions on my posting IS personally motivated. That is the punishment for any poster who dares to judge those, who have no hesitation in imposing their judgement (often anonymously) on the rest of us.      

Subject: RE: Post that should go.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03-Dec-06 - 09:00 PM

Well, I used to give you equal treatment, Shambles - but you kept badgering me about that being repressive censorship.
So, you got what you asked for. Catspaw can say what he likes about you, until such time as you stop your incessant campaign against the way we do things here. You are not a nice person, Shambles. Do not expect to be treated nicely.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:12 AM

My point about asking others if they've noticed
deletions of their posts was to see how they thought/felt
about that. The thin response seems to amount to,'We're
cool with how things are done.'

There are of course many other interpretations?

The more sensible (or irresponsible - which ever way you look at it) would not try to openly discuss the issue of censorship and demonstrtate its reality, in order to ensure that others would not be so treated. Seeing how the pigs (and the baying mob)were now ordering the farm - they probably would have packed up and gone to a more honest forum. Where assurances given are seen to be honoured and the same rules apply equally to all.

The thin response is hadly surprising - given the sort of treatment that is meeted out to any poster who is brave enough to suggest that most posters here probably do deserve better and should not be subjected to bullying, double standards and hypocrisy.

In my view such things must always be challenged - wherever the cost and wherever it may be found. Especially where it is supported and encouraged - suposedly in the name of enabling 'good discussion'.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:47 PM

"Those who post only abuse demonstrate only the worst aspects of their characters - and as far as I am concerned they can carry on doing this - if it gives them pleasure and I will carru on ignoring them."


Aw geezy peezy widdle Shamby-Pamby.......It sure as hell doesn't seem like you're ignoring them from the number you have copied over and over and over and over...........LMAO!

Do you really not know why mods on most sites are anonymous? Because if YOU (for instance) have a bitch YOU MUST take it up with the big honcho(s) and NOT ON THE THREADS....which will get you banned. The mods are responsible only to admin...PERIOD. Never are they responsible to members. To translate this for you: IF YOU GOT A BITCH, TAKE IT TO MAX. Otherwise, have a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.

You really are such a baby about this stuff. Grow up and try to understand how the world works. Try and grow a pair of balls so you can PM Max with your problems. There is still time for you to do that. Down the road you'll be on the outside looking in. Why not act like an adult now and try to get a grip on reality?

Yeah, right...............and pregnant wombats will fly outta' my ass.........But I do appreciate your approval of my work and since you seem to have agreed, I will happily continue since you said you didn't mind. Mucho Gracias mortar forker

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:29 PM

After saying that, how can you possibly comment, at all, on the content of anyone else's posts?

Those who post only abuse demonstrate only the worst aspects of their characters - and as far as I am concerned they can carry on doing this - if it gives them pleasure and I will carru on ignoring them.

But our forum is assured by our 'moderators' that such posts will be eliminated..............

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:44 PM

Shambles...you said

"And far too often in response to some complaint from one poster about the posting of others. When these complaints are responded to - this only encourages the idea that posters have some right over what others choose to post and some right to post only such judgements about the worth of their fellow posters.

"If the quality of posting on our forum was really a concern to our 'moderators' - the more sensible response would be for our 'moderators' to tell such complainers to mind their own business and concentrate on the only posts that anyone has any control over - their own."

After saying that, how can you possibly comment, at all, on the content of anyone else's posts?

You, yourself have said that people should "...concentrate on the only posts that anyone has any control over - their own."

A lot of us, on the other hand, haven't said that, so we are still free to complain about other people's posts, without compromising ourselves....should we feel the need to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:35 PM

As I've mused before, if you write interesting/amusing,
stuff, and debate vaguely properly,it'll stay in.

Like Catspaw's posts that stay in - containing only foul and abusive scatological insults you mean?

Is musing the same thing as reasoning? I think not.

Yes you have implied this before - and despite the clear facts that the only deciding factor is WHO is saying it - not what is said - you still ignore these facts - and you go on to imply it again.

I fail to see that ignoring the facts can be thought to be debating properly - even vagely.

Do you accept that had you contributed to the Status Quo, Winona Ryder threads - the one that has vanished without trace and the Kate Rusby split threads - that no matter how 'interesting/amusing' your post may have been - it would have been deleted - even though your post would not have met the required criteria, that you were assured on this thread it would need to, in order to be deleted?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: autolycus
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:01 PM

My point about asking others if they've noticed
deletions of their posts was to see how they thought/felt
about that. The thin response seems to amount to,'We're
cool with how things are done.'

    I'm all for Roger having his say a la Voltaire. On
the other hand,I rather doubt if the way threads are
worked is condusive to satisfactory conclusions.

    Apart from the usual debating tricks - irrelevance,
changing the subject etc. - ,a big problem is that it
appears impossible to stick to one matter at a time,a
consequence of how these threads are used.

   The bigger problem seems to be (to me) that there
are psychologies involved (everyone has one). And the
unconscious. So all rational debate is thwarted by
other factors, many of which are not within the consciousness
of posters. (I don't exclude myself.)

   So we get people accusing Shambles of doing things
they do themselves without realising it. It's done
unconsciously,you see. So Shambles becomes the dumping
ground for our righteous and our unconscious stuff.

   I would guess everybody has experienced brilliant
points they've made being ignored. Which I personally
find more hurtful than being deleted.

As I've mused before, if you write interesting/amusing,
stuff, and debate vaguely properly,it'll stay in.

At least,that's Uncle Ivor's recipe of the day.

Enjoy, and bliss to everyone. Well, we're alive - a
miracle.


       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:52 PM

What is your point on 95% of what you post Shambolina?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 03:50 PM

I posted on it twice too, using my name, and got called a "fucking turkey" for my trouble by one of the anonymous ones (I suspect I know who). Still I don't care. Funny isn't it, how they are so brave and can say that stuff from under a cloak of anonymity but they can't come out and put their names to their insults.

Sorry mate, but no cigar. My point was never about whether it was good or bad.

From this - it does not sound as you are any more in favour of the anonymous ones than I am - nor does it sound as if you don't care - but apart from posting to speculate on what a terrible person I am (which is a point that has already been well-hammered home) what is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 01:15 PM

But you still have not addressed whether anonymous posting is good or bad on our forum ? Or can it be both good and bad?

How convenient for you now to be asking that question. What better way to change the subject to anonymous posting than by doing some of it yourself and then waiting to see who will notice and react.

Sorry mate, but no cigar. My point was never about whether it was good or bad. I figured you had an agenda though, and I was right. Incidentally, you have demonstrated the answer to your question. Anonymous posting in itself is neither good or bad, but it can be used in different ways, depending on the motives of the poster. Unfortunately there are too many people around with less than honourable motives, and that leads to my opinion that posting on the BS section of Mudcat at least should be Members Only.

Now would you like to go back to the original subject of your thread? Cos I've said all I'm going to say on your new pet subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 12:26 PM

You may annoy a lot of people, but you're not stupid.

Careful - that may be thought to be a compliment. It is certainly a view that is going against the general flow.

Jenny I have a cookie which saves me the bother of typing out my name in full on our forum proper.

After mny years - that is still not the case in Snitchers Corner - where in order to see one's name against your posts - you do have to type it in.

As you judge that my style is so easily recognised - there does not seem much point in my typing my name in every post there - does there?

In fact. some posters may judge it stupid for me to do so.

But you still have not addressed whether anonymous posting is good or bad on our forum ? Or can it be both good and bad?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:54 AM

Shambles, as usual, you are picking which points to answer and which ones to ignore. I'll repeat what I said in my last post:

As for the Help Forum, nobody has a cookie on that, and although people occasionally forget to put their names on their posts there, I don't think I've EVER seen your name on posts there that are obviously yours.

Are you now going to tell me that every time you have posted to the Help Forum, you have accidentally forgotten to put your name there? Sorry, but I couldn't believe you are that stupid. Having seen your modus operandi over the years, it's obvious that most of what you do here is carefully calculated. You may annoy a lot of people, but you're not stupid. Are you going to tell me you are?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:43 AM

Subject: RE: Post that should go.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03-Dec-06 - 09:00 PM

Well, I used to give you equal treatment, Shambles - but you kept badgering me about that being repressive censorship.
So, you got what you asked for. Catspaw can say what he likes about you, until such time as you stop your incessant campaign against the way we do things here. You are not a nice person, Shambles. Do not expect to be treated nicely.
-Joe-

No comment required.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:37 AM

I'll repeat what I said on that thread - Shambles, I don't know why you bother to post anonymously. Your style is a dead giveaway. You've only been doing that lately, and not just once, so "my cookie had expired" is so much nonsense.

The truth - which you may not like - is that unlike some of our 'moderators' - I don't post anonymously.

I had restored some settings on my PC and needed to re set my cookie. I was not aware of this - until I had posted.

I am sorry if the truth does not support your judgement of me.

But would anonymous posting be judged to be bad then?

Or is it only bad when posters do it and a good thing when our 'moderators' can both post and censor anonymously?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 11:03 AM

Secret Santa could be done in the help section, and make the whole of Mudcat's main pages members only.
Cut the spam, from ALL spammers!

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 09:25 AM

If everyone goes on saying the phrase "the N word" for long enough and not daring to actually voice or be confronted with the real word itself even when reading, for example, a historically signficant book like "Huckleberry Finn", presently people won't know what was meant by "the N word" any longer or what word WAS the "N" word...and then...someone might say it accidentally!!!!. This is a danger that I should think probably keeps a lot of people awake at night for hours. ;-) I mean, just imagine what could happen!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 08:41 AM

The Kate Rusby/John McC thread was closed and deleted because its fundamental subject matter was deemed BY THE MANAGEMENT to be contrary to the ethos of the site. As one of the contributors whose content has been deleted, I'm good with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:49 AM

The "N" word...

My God, Lenny Bruce would be rolling his grave if he saw what's going on nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 05:32 AM

The only double standards and hypocrisy I see on the Help Forum thread that Shambles linked to are from all the anonymous ones - including Shambles himself. I'd say you've guessed most of them right, Giok. I posted on it twice too, using my name, and got called a "fucking turkey" for my trouble by one of the anonymous ones (I suspect I know who). Still I don't care. Funny isn't it, how they are so brave and can say that stuff from under a cloak of anonymity but they can't come out and put their names to their insults.

I'll repeat what I said on that thread - Shambles, I don't know why you bother to post anonymously. Your style is a dead giveaway. You've only been doing that lately, and not just once, so "my cookie had expired" is so much nonsense. As for the Help Forum, nobody has a cookie on that, and although people occasionally forget to put their names on their posts there, I don't think I've EVER seen your name on posts there that are obviously yours.

I wonder if the anonymous GUEST will be brave enough to come and insult me on this forum now. More and more I'm in favour of making the BS section Members Only, with Secret Santa stuff in the music section.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:52 AM

All I can see in the thread you linked to in what you snidely call 'Snitchers Corner' is anonymous post by people who I guess are you, CH, Peace, and A N Other, plus named contributions from J.O.
Can't see why you linked to it though, as in common with most of your specious links and postulations, it proves nothing.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 02:00 AM

"Is that clear enough?"

Actually, no it isn't. You have just described an ordinary action, in no way is it imposed as you have described it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 09:21 PM

Shambles, your logic is indeed lacking. If someone calls you a moron one time and you are offended then should they keep calling you a moron? If someone sees an offensive post once, should it constantly be thrown in their face again?

If one person finds a post offensive then it is possible that others will too. It is up to the moderators to judge a post as to what will be offensive to a wide range of people. One must rely on the fact that they can judge whether something is innocent and will only be considered ofensive by a single person or whether it is somethiang that is generally offensive to all.

If I post the N word in a thread should it stay there and offend all that look at it? I think not.

You may not approve of the moderators but in general they do a wonderful job. It is up to them to decide what is appropriate for a site that a wide variety of people use.

Again, if you don't like it then go somewhere else.

Please!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 08:49 PM

Why must entire threads - like this - be deleted. Especially when any possible offence has already been caused?

I am reminded of the truck driver when after narrowly missing a pedestrian - who looked back and shouted out of a his window - a belated cry of - LOOK OUT!

The pedestrian still sitting dazed in the road shouted back - WHY - ARE YOU COMING BACK?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 08:45 PM

Shambles, if you don't like it here then get lost. The rules are set by Max and not you. It's his site and not ours. So stop bellyaching.

Do you also challenge the rules where you work? If your boss asks you to do something that you feel is wrong to you refuse to do it? Not morally wrong, just against what you feel is what you want to do?

Your ideas are totally uncomprehensible. A web site exists for the betterment of everyone and like everything else has rules and regulations. If you don't agree with the rules and don't want to follow them then you can go somewhere else and do what you want. Or better yet, you should be banned from this site. Where I come from, you are what is called a habitual troublemaker.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 08:41 PM

More wit and wisdom - double standards and hypocrisy from Snitchers Corner.

Posts that should go

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 08:25 PM

The basic priciple of the management reserving the right - is a perfectly sound one. The use of the word 'reserves' suggests that it is something held in reserve and the use of the word 'management' suggest that it will be a matter for the 'management' to decide.

None of this suggest the use of 'silent deletion' by anonymous fellow posters as a first and only option to deal with really very minor issues.

And our forum is given many assurances. Like about meeting the required criteria for deletion of posts - like the assurance given in this thread to Ivor.

Can these assurances be seen to be worth anything - when entire threads of 300+ posts are seen to be deleted for the very slightest of excuses?

Very few (if any) of the posts deleted in those two threads would have met the stated required criteria for deletion - would they. If any did - then why cannot these posts only be subject to imposed editing action?

Why must entire threads - like this - be deleted. Especially when any possible offence has already been caused?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 07:20 PM

So what - are any of us worse off for it???

You, we, all of us, put things on here in the full knowledge that all posts are subject to editing or deletion if the site owner, or his deputies, consider that is the course of action most appropriate.

If you disagree with that basic principle TAKE IT UP WITH MAX.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 06:53 PM

The Kate Rusby and John Mcusker thread and all of its posts - have now been deleted also.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 06:48 PM

The Kate Rusby and John Mcusker split thread   has now been closed and the orignal one (with all those valuable posts about The Archers) has now been deleted.

So Ivor - any poster who contributed any of the 300 or so posts to that thread - have had their posts deleted.

So it is not just (offensive) posters like me, Jon and Wolfgang whose posts are at risk of imposed editing actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 06:35 PM

It is not for anyone other than the offended person to decide whether somehing is offensive or not. If omeone says they find somethign offensive, they do. They have a right to complain (to somebody) about being offended by somebody and expect appropriate action to be taken.

This is an interesting concept. For we are constantly being told (by our 'moderators' and their few but noisy supporters) that no poster has any rights at all. Or do you think that applies only to me - and that you do have some rights on our forum?

Why are they not posting to correct your interesting concept that posters who have no right to post or no right to expect their words to remain as posted - do have some right to post to complain about what others post and expect some action to be taken as result?

You have certainly highlighted one of the main problems of the sort of complaining about the worth of posters - that is now encouraged on our forum.

If you expect the right to post what you wish and accept that other posters also have this right - should you really expect never to be offended on our forum? Is the risk of you being offended but a small price (and one well worth paying) for your right to have your say?

Would you consider that others should have the right to complain about your posts and expect action to be imposed on your posts as a result? Or would you feel you had the right to complain about that also?

Perhaps all posters should all be allowed and encouraged to concentrate on simply posting our views - to respond to the views of others or to ignore them - and to leave all the personal judgements to a later date and to an even higher authority than the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 06 - 01:47 PM

Don't you understand Blowzabella that Mr. Shambles wants to make all of the rules around here and customize them to fit his needs. Moderators shouldn't moderate, no one should make any complaints because it is none of their business, posters should be asked before there posts are deleted or edited no matter how many times they post the same thing or no matter how tasteless it should be. Of course, Mr. Shambles has the right to complain over and over again about anything and everything even though he tells others to "Mind their own business". It sure appears that a certain person here has double standards.

Perhaps it is time for Shambles to start his own website where he can make his own rules and tell people that if THEY don't like it then it is just too bad...they can go somewhere else. Or, perhaps, it is time to force Shambles to leave here once and for all. His complaints are both repititious and highly annoying. In any other website he would have been edited out a lot more then he is here and then forced to leave for being critical of the work done by a bunch of volunteers who are following the guidlines of the owner's website.

Of course, this could all be solved once and for all if Mr. Shambles would just send a PM to Max. Then he would know what will and won't be done. But then he would have nothing to complain about.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 06:43 PM

"And far too often in response to some complaint from one poster about the posting of others. When these complaints are responded to - this only encourages the idea that posters have some right over what others choose to post and some right to post only such judgements about the worth of their fellow posters.

"If the quality of posting on our forum was really a concern to our 'moderators' - the more sensible response would be for our 'moderators' to tell such complainers to mind their own business and concentrate on the only posts that anyone has any control over - their own."


That seems to me to be a strange concept - that somebody should not be allowed to do something about something they find, say, offensive. Don't you think people should have the right to complain about something which offends them? If the offending thing has been said, obviously nothing can be done to make it unsaid. But someone in authority can take the sayer 'to task' for saying it. With things posted on a forum, while there is nothing which can be done to tutn back time - make it so that the offending words had never been there, it is (I think) reasonable for the offended person to assume that, having been offended by something, the people in charge of the forum would do what they could to prevent the offending post from remaining on the internet for ever.

It is not for anyone other than the offended person to decide whether somehing is offensive or not. If omeone says they find somethign offensive, they do. They have a right to complain (to somebody) about being offended by somebody and expect appropriate action to be taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,anti Archers league
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:26 PM

mods probably closed that thread down cuz they're shit scared of showbiz celebrity litigation lawyers !?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:47 PM

"If the quality of posting on our forum was really a concern to our 'moderators' - the more sensible response would be for our 'moderators' to tell such complainers to mind their own business"

Our moderators should also tell chronic complainers to mind their own business regarding the policies that the owner of this website sets. Max sets the rules here. If you don't like the rules then play some other game somewhere else.

But that doesn't really matter because:


"Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell."

According to Max "Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can." That's about you leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:29 PM

Wolfgang - if I answer your demand - will you answer the polite question I asked you about the thread we both posted to but has vanished without trace?

Yes - As if it matters - my cookie had expired.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:10 PM

Shambles,

have you posted as GUEST 02 Dec 06 - 08:09 AM?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:13 PM

"Imposed actions". What on earth does that mean anyway?

Imposed action means when a moderator (often an anonymous one) judges the worth of the contributions of a fellow poster's contribution and closes a thread, deletes or in any way alters or adds to poster's words - as a first and only response - without first asking the originators permission to do so.   

Is that clear enough?

Sadly this imposition is undertaken too often when less drastic and less counter-productive methods would be more suitable and proportionate.

And far too often in response to some complaint from one poster about the posting of others. When these complaints are responded to - this only encourages the idea that posters have some right over what others choose to post and some right to post only such judgements about the worth of their fellow posters.

If the quality of posting on our forum was really a concern to our 'moderators' - the more sensible response would be for our 'moderators' to tell such complainers to mind their own business and concentrate on the only posts that anyone has any control over - their own.

They could start with setting this example with their own posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: jeffp
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 12:36 PM

I've long suspected that the "Guest" is just a sock puppet, refreshing the thread so Shambles doesn't look like a monologuist. We seem to have confirmation.