BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:17 PM

Yes, but the quality of beer in the United States has improved greatly in recent years. Northern California's Sierra Nevada Pale is truly the Nectar of the Gods.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:12 PM

Gee, I dunno' Jeff.........Nobody in my family has any bruises including my dogs.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: number 6
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:12 PM

Close threads and deleted posts initiate web forum violence.

"And THAT'S the way it is,"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:11 PM

Not to mention beer & IMPORTED violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

So imported beer leads to imported violence?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:09 PM

I think that's only domestic beer which leads to domestic violence.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:04 PM

Not to mention beer and domestic violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 03:57 PM

There is a direct correlation between complete stupidity and Domestic Violence too...

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 03:15 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Winona Ryder's birthday thead(s)
From: The Shambles - PM
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 02:11 PM

Obviously some anonymous one here just does not like Winona?

Is it really too much for posters to always be informed in an editing comment and for them to know when any form of imposed censorship has been judged to be necessary?

That would prevent us from blaming the software, questioning our memory and from my poor old dog from being kicked in frustration.

If you won't introduce this simple procedure for our sakes - then perhaps for the sake of our poor bruised pets.

************************************************************************************************


It is well known there is a direct correlation between abuse of animals and Domestic Violence.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 02:14 PM

I posted the following in the Winona Ryder thread(s). The thread did not meet our criteria for deletion.

---

Multiple threads combined, and the first thread was undeleted because I could see no reason for deletion.
-Joe Offer-

---

OK, so I'm sure that somebody will want to know what are our criteria for deletion. Here's what was posted in the Help Forum:

Subject: RE: thread name clarification
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18-Oct-06 - 02:01 PM

If a thread looks like it's going to cause all hell to break loose, we close or delete it. If it's just moderately nasty, we usually leave it alone.
Same with messages - we leave the moderately nasty ones alone, much to the chagrin of some.
-Joe Offer-


---


Subject: RE: thread name clarification
From:
Date: 18-Oct-06 - 07:05 PM

The term, cause all hell to break loose means what exactly?

And how is 'moderatly nasty' defined and by whom?



---


Subject: RE: thread name clarification
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19-Oct-06 - 01:48 PM

Well, OK, here's my answer. Max, Jeff, and I decide what's "moderately nasty" and what's worse than that. Max, Jeff, and I decide when it looks like all hell is going to break loose. We base our decisions on our personal judgment. The Clones also use their personal judgment - and their judgment is reviewed by Max, Jeff, and Joe.
Now, I realize that many people live their lives in a very legalistic context, and think that every action should be guided exactly by rules, but that's not how we do things around here. We live by judgment, not by rules.
So, no, I'm not going to get boxed into defining "moderately nasty" and "all hell breaking loose." I don't talk, think, or act in that sort of legalistic philosophical system. When I see a mess, I don't need to go through the legalistic process of defining it as a mess, before I clean it up.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 02:05 PM

Well this is tragic! I mean Winona Ryder is such a huge music star and all.............Shamby Pamby, your b-day threads are just another of your bullshit vendettas but they all have been pretty much related to music somehow and short of LH lovin' Winona...........Anyway, keep in mind that as updates begin to happen, the day will come when many of your posts will go missing......along with you! (:<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:56 PM

so I was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:54 PM

Sahmbles - I honestly suspect that you "first" thread never existed. I know I never saw it.

Well I am rather careful these days. I always check to see if what I have posted appears. Then when it later vanishes (without any editing comment of explanation) I then know that any mistake was not mine.

Talking of editing comments - the following was inserted (not once but twice) in the thread in question.

Multiple threads combined, and the first thread was undeleted because I could see no reason for deletion.
-Joe Offer-

Which strongly suggests that the (now restored original thread) was not lost in any upgrade - but was entirely deleted by persons unknown for reasons unknown and for reasons certainly not indicated or explained in any form of editing comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:08 PM

Sahmbles - I honestly suspect that you "first" thread never existed. I know I never saw it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 01:02 PM

it's already been said that an hour or so of posting immediatley prior to the upgrade appears to have been lost. thread was probably within that timeframe.

MMario - My first attempt to post that thread to enquire about the fate of the original one, was NOT lost in any update - was it?

Despite my request for all cases of censorship action to be indicated and explained in a editing comment - and for all editing comments to be limited to where some form of action has actually taken place - this has not been adopted by our 'moderators'.

So - any poster who cannot find their contribution still has no way of knowing if this is because it has been censored, lost in some software glitch or is as a result of us being in the 'Twilight Zone - have they?

If my suggestion were adopted - when posters did not see an editing comment - they could be sure that censorship was not the cause of their contribution's non-appearance or get paranoid about this possibility. They could then start looking for other explanations.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:54 PM

As well you should be! Threads on Winona Ryder outweigh the importance of any other 100 threads put together. Everyone knows that.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:33 PM

Omygod !!! The Winona Ryder's birthday thread(s) ? Gone - FOREVER ?? Alert the media.

I for one am heartbroken.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:28 PM

it's already been said that an hour or so of posting immediatley prior to the upgrade appears to have been lost. thread was probably within that timeframe.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 12:17 PM

Perhaps?


And perhaps someone would be kind enough to explain to our forum what happened to the BS thread in question here Winona Ryder's birthday thread(s) ?

The entire BS thread and all of its posts - has sinply vanished - without trace or explanation.......

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,Professor Lucullus Chinchover
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 11:52 AM

"Perhaps"..."perhaps"...

Oh, dear, oh dear! Did you not pay attention to my earlier post on the dangers of the overuse of the word "perhaps", Shambles? Do go and read it again! There may still be time to undo the damage you have doubtless done already to your health and sanity through this pernicious verbal habit.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:41 AM

It has been unanimous amongst us all (and for some time now) that we all feel it should at least be members only posting in the BS. Lets hope we don't have to keep posting these posts in this thread the same time next year.

If you don't like it - you don't have to keep posting to this thread or indeed to this forum at all - do you?

Perhaps the fact that 'you' have been encouraged (by some of our 'moderators') to post your requirements (and for some time now) and that Max has not changed our forum in that period, in order to suit your requirements - should be telling you something?

Perhaps it is that those posters who are unanimous - have no need for a forum - for they have nothing to discuss?

And that if they want a like-minded private club where they can exclude who they wish - nothing is stopping them from going away and forming such a place.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 02:29 AM

It has been unanimous amongst us all (and for some time now) that we all feel it should at least be members only posting in the BS. Lets hope we don't have to keep posting these posts in this thread the same time next year.

All I see caused by this (for the record) statement is division.
Do you mean by 'us all' - the usual few who have posted their support for the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's (for the record) solution? Even some of them don't agree with the basic assessment that find's our forum so wanting and requiring this change.

But just how many is that - so far?

But do you agree that? Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.

If you don't - why is there any need for such a radical change to address anything?

And if you do agree - why cannot you go elswhere and find or start something that is to your requirements?

Why do you think that Max should change his long-running posting policy to suit you? Especially as he has not implemented such a change since this (for the record) statement was first made?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 08:25 AM

Shambles, you really are a *&%#@*!!! It's one thing to constantly pour out this stupid BS that you do so many times each day. It's totally another thing to attack Ron who is probably the most decent person on this website and one of the few who even attempts to defend you. To jump on someone who has apologized for choosing the wrong word to express his feelings is definately the most despicable post that you have ever written. If you have any feelings you would be ashamed of yourself but something tells me that is not applicable to you.

Ron, don't take Shambles comments to heart. You are a 100% better person then he is. You can at least admit when you are wrong (which you really weren't in this case). Shambles won't even admit to himself that he is loony.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 02:06 AM

Wow. You are right. I really do apologize. That was uncalled for on my part.   That is why I should get out of here. Sorry.

Thank you. But perhaps it is a bit too late for that? For you finally managed to follow the example set by our 'moderators', and you have finally said what Mick wanted you to and now become part of the problem. So that is alright then.

Your word 'moron' is now in safe hands and just another name to add to the list. Other than causing great delight to Mick - it will add nothing to the discussion and make no more difference than all the other posted names and personal judgements have done.

Ron, many of us have tried over and over to be part of the solution over the years. That is why we are now very intolerant. This "moron" has shown us over and over that he is a troll of the first order. I am sorry you are learning the hard way. You are a good man, trying to do good things.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 05:28 PM

I have had more run-ins with Joe than most people who've ever come to this forum. On some occasions I have found him to be right and on others to be wrong. However, I am not about to say I think Joe is a bad man, bad editor, bad person. You seem to have a single-minded focus on Joe and how bad he is. That is just not right. Joe has said many times that he has erred/made a mistake/screwed up. Hey, guess what? That is human and gutsy. In fact, if I had a place such as this, I would want someone very much like Joe Offer to run it--as he saw fit--because despite what I perceive to be the occasional mistake on his part, he is even-handed and honest.

That is your view gained from your experiance and you appear to be welcome to post such a view in any thread you wish and as many times as you want to. I cannot do this - for I have a different view. This is formed from a different experience and different circumstance to yours. For example I have never posted on our forum under any other name than this one.

However, I do take issue with your accusation that I 'attack' anyone.

Most of what I post is in fact the exact words of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team. For example when he makes a (for the record) statement like the following:

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. So, I think something has to be done. Ebbie's suggestion about putting Secret Santa in the music section is a very simple answer to one major objection I had to members-only BS posting - duh, why didn't I think of that?

So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer-

Do you agree with this assessment and the proposed solution?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 05:10 PM

Wow. You are right. I really do apologize. That was uncalled for on my part.   That is why I should get out of here. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 05:09 PM

Dear Shambles,

I have appreciated much about your tenacity and many of your arguments. However, you continue to attack Joe and that is

1) not right
2) bullshit

I have had more run-ins with Joe than most people who've ever come to this forum. On some occasions I have found him to be right and on others to be wrong. However, I am not about to say I think Joe is a bad man, bad editor, bad person. You seem to have a single-minded focus on Joe and how bad he is. That is just not right. Joe has said many times that he has erred/made a mistake/screwed up. Hey, guess what? That is human and gutsy. In fact, if I had a place such as this, I would want someone very much like Joe Offer to run it--as he saw fit--because despite what I perceive to be the occasional mistake on his part, he is even-handed and honest.

I agree with Joe--and it seems a few other folks here--that BS should be a members onl;y part of Mudcat. To suggest that that approach would limit anyone's 'free speech' is much like suggesting that a diatribe to 'letters to the editor' limits free speech because it has to be signed.

This is not 'our' site. True, much of the Mudcat is the result of either primary or secondary research by many people. Other aspects are the results of original writing. In that regard, the Mudcat is 'ours'. But, the place 'we' have chosen to do the above belongs to a guy named Max. I would suggest that if you have a beef with Joe Offer, message or e-mail him. This thread has become like a soap opera. Tune in any day and it's the same. From everyone. Now, I am off this thread for good. Scout's Honour.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 05:03 PM

One last thing - I am sorry I used the word "moronic".   That was directed at the idea, not the individual. I don't know Shambles well enough to pass that kind of judgement.

You did not use the word 'moronic'. What you said was:

That is the sign of a moron.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 04:54 PM

One last thing - I am sorry I used the word "moronic".   That was directed at the idea, not the individual. I don't know Shambles well enough to pass that kind of judgement.

Bye!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 04:47 PM

"Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell."

"Trust me, this matter will be dealt with in time. Trust me, we working as hard as we can to make this happen as soon as we can. That's about you leaving Shambles."

Hey Shambles,

You aren't the only one who can cut and paste. It's almost time to say Goodbye.

I hope that you find whatever web site that you go to next a better and happier place for you. It's about time that you had some fun.

Bye bye!

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 04:41 PM

Ron, many of us have tried over and over to be part of the solution over the years. That is why we are now very intolerant. This "moron" has shown us over and over that he is a troll of the first order. I am sorry you are learning the hard way. You are a good man, trying to do good things.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: number 6
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 04:21 PM

It has been unanimous amongst us all (and for some time now) that we all feel it should at least be members only posting in the BS. Lets hope we don't have to keep posting these posts in this thread the same time next year.

Joe is an outstanding individual. It amazes me how he can still retain a sense of humour and put up with all the crappola that goes on here. As far as I'm concerned he does a good job here in the cat. My hat is certainly off to the guy.

"And THAT'S the way it is,"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 04:20 PM

There you go, ignoring what people are saying in favour of your own crusade again.

YOU have complained about all I mentioned above. Yes, Joe expressed an opinion and made a suggestion for a possible change. So what? You have expressed your opinion repeatedly and made many many suggestions. You also publicly claimed to have no deire to tell Max how to run his site. However, the entire basis of this thread contridicts that statement - and when asked which is the truth you refuse to answer.

Joe and others have repeatedly answered most of your points and questions. but when you do not recieve the answers you are looking for you just start in on the same things again.

My stand re: members only posting is both public and in the record. I leave it as an excercise for you to remember what it is - as I have told you before, and quite recently.

there are times this is a very unpleasant place to visit.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 04:19 PM

I hate to say it Ron but you will be back. He keeps drawing you in like a fly in a spider web. You've already stated at least three times that you are gone but you keep coming back. Shambles comments haven't changed since you started saying that you were finished posting. You just have a lack of will power like everyone else. Shambles is like the Pied Piper. He blows his own horn and everyone follows him...even if they are disagreeing as they follow.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:57 PM

I'm out of here. That last post from Shambles really showed his true colors.   I hate to judge people, but I also hate to see people using people. That is the sign of a moron.

Every dog has its day.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:52 PM

overall you give the impression of being very very dissatisfied with this forum - and since you have publicly stated you have no desire to tell max how to run his forum...

No - it is not me who made the (for the record) statement that:

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. So, I think something has to be done. Ebbie's suggestion about putting Secret Santa in the music section is a very simple answer to one major objection I had to members-only BS posting - duh, why didn't I think of that?

So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer-

I have made many suggestions toward how other poster's public dissatifactions and complaints can be adressed. But they seem to think that our forum and poster's contributions should be judged and shaped to suit their requirements. I do not agree with this as I rather like our forum and Max's posting policy.

Unlike others, I find our forum is still a place to goof off and have a good discussion (and that considerations about Secret Santas are low on my list of priorities) and I only question the actions of those who are so disatisfied with Max's policy for our forum and who set such poor posting example for others to follow and then moan constantly and publicy about the inevitable result.

MMario - I am right in thinking that you are in agreement with me and do not wish Max to make a change to members only posting?

Do you also agree with me that our forum is still a place to goof off and have a good discussion? Or is the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team speaking for you in his public (for the record) statement, that? And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:51 PM

If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:48 PM

Ron, you mistake what Shambles wants. He doesn't want a discussion, which would lead to resolution. He would be very happy if this thread went on, with you responding to him for another 6 months. I salute your motives, they will not yield fruit. They have all been tried before. When you see folks that are intolerant of this guy, like myself, Spaw, and others, it isn't because we enjoy being this way. Over the years we have all tried to reason with him, but this isn't about reason. It is about a pathological need to see himself in a Quixotal (howzat for a word?) way. He fancies himself a messiah crying out in the wilderness. He will not go quiet, but continue to nitpick. I have tried to point these things out to you, but you feel the need to try. Good luck on that, and I will watch with interest. My prediction: won't work, you will try for a quite a while, and eventually give up in disgust.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:42 PM

Shambles absolutely does not want to discuss his views or anything else. He want to cut and paste and criticize. He never once answers any question.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:39 PM

Comeon, lets have a little self-control. 24 hours without commenting on others.   Let's let people post their opinions of the three questions that Shambles posed and I phrased at 12:12pm.   This thread has been going on since August 7.   Can't we let others post their views without having to respond to every little point for JUST 24 hours?    Lets let others post their views during that time and then we can have a discussion starting at 12:12pm ET on October 31.    I realize that no one can control postings, but couldn't we try this for one day? Shambles has complained that no one wants to discuss the issues - lets give everyone a chance to post their views.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:22 PM

probably ranger1 noticed that you have complained about:

moderators
editing
thread titles
thread deletions
thread closings
where and how Joe responds to complaints
where and how other moderators respond to you
Max's response or lack thereof to your complaints
Other posters language
other posters references to yourself
Other posters qouting you
Other posters qouting other posters
other posters choice of subject
birtrhday threads
recipe posts

overall you give the impression of being very very dissatisfied with this forum - and since you have publicly stated you have no desire to tell max how to run his forum...

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 03:16 PM

Shambles, if you don't like the way the site is run, why don't you just go away and start your own site?

If you hadn't noticed - is is not me who is saying:   

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. So, I think something has to be done. Ebbie's suggestion about putting Secret Santa in the music section is a very simple answer to one major objection I had to members-only BS posting - duh, why didn't I think of that?

So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer-

So why don't you ask the person who is saying this?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: ranger1
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 01:50 PM

I, for one, think that the mods here do a great job. A lot of us are very impressed that they continue to put up with the same juvenile antics of some people (who ought to know who they are but probably don't) over and over again. Shambles, if you don't like the way the site is run, why don't you just go away and start your own site?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 01:34 PM

I'm for a members only BS part
The moderators should of course take part in the discussion, anything else is an obvious nonsense as has been pointed out several times.
Joe does a very good job.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 01:14 PM

Ron, I have answered all of those in a serious fashion as well as a smartass one and it makes no difference. But.....once more for you....totally serious.

1) There are other ways of changing the posting policy that are probably being looked into as well. Without going into all of them, I'd simply say that a change will undoubtedly be made from the status quo. I think you can take that much to the bank. Is it needed? Certainly. Mudcat has become far too large to go on the way it has. The trick will be.....and I have faith that both Max and Jeff will pull it off.....to retain some of the flavor of the old Mudcat and the things which we have all valued such as free roaming discussions from cooking to condoms and a lot of good music as well!

2) Mods are almost always members of the forums they moderate but in the larger forums they are almost always anonymous, known by only their Mod name when they are "working" and their usual handle otherwise. This is done so that all complaints are not sent to individual Mods but the admin instead. Admin can and sometimes does replace Moderators who step over the line and that is as it should be. As a Mod you wear two hats and your "job" is to enforce the rules and wishes of the admin.

Additionally, no forum of any real size allows long running discussions about policy. I think Max will always allow that to some degree. But I also believe he will join with the larger forum thinking in halting threads like this one at their inception and taking action against posters who insist on complaining. No one minds constructive criticism or suggestions but when they become whining complaints or angry critiques, they stop. The posters responsible are asked first to tone it down and or other action may be taken.....and it is, no quarter asked and none given. Just ZAP!!! Generally, these threads and posts are deleted from the forum with no explanation. If we all know the rules then we don't need an explanation do we?

Again, I don't know how far Max and Jeff will go in that direction but I'd be pretty sure it's a helluva' lot further down that road than we are now. I imagine he'll use the same Mods as he does now as he shows no sign of finding their work unsatisfactory. And do note that he finds (from his public postings) Shambles to be a pain in the ass and someone he has already politely asked to leave. The Mods will continue as they have and I see no problem either except that so many are known and Sham has used this against them.

3) Over the past 8 or 9 years I have fought with Joe, laughed with Joe, fought about Joe and for Joe and laughed about Joe and at Joe. I have at turns loved him like a brother and wanted to kick him in the balls. He has a tough job which at times is made harder by Joe's own sense of doing the right thing as he sees it. Many times this means trying to explain when I think he just needs to say nothing! Shamby has pushed him over the edge a few times and then exploited the results. Joe tries hard to be fair....it's the midwestern "right" thing he grew up with. Ya' know, the only times I think Joe causes a problem is when he tries to explain some action when in fact NO EXPLANATION is needed or should be given. Joe cares very much about this site and the people who come here and THAT more often gets him in trouble than anything else.

That's a little long for 2 cents but wtf...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 01:03 PM

I will see you in 24 hours Shambles.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 01:01 PM

Ron - do we take that any poster who wishes our forum to be changed into members only - are all not only in agreement with the following) for the record) statement being made public, but are also in agreement with its content? For they do rather tend to go together.

And despite our best efforts, Mudcat is no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion. So, I think something has to be done. Ebbie's suggestion about putting Secret Santa in the music section is a very simple answer to one major objection I had to members-only BS posting - duh, why didn't I think of that?

So, short of members-only posting, what can we do to bring peace to this place? I'd rather have another solution, but I haven't been able to think of one.
-Joe Offer-

And perhaps they could inform our forum what their intentions are towards judging our forum to be no longer a pleasant place to hang out and goof off or have a good discussion - as Max has not seen fit to implement this change and should Max indicate that he has no intention of implementing this change?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 12:56 PM

By the way... I won't respond to any questions or posts for the next 24 hours. Shambles, I would ask you to do the same. I think it would be interesting if everyone JUST posts their views for the next 24 hours and give some reasons, like I did in my second post today. Then perhaps after 24 hours we can have a legitimate discussion instead of all the "traffic" that takes apart each others comments.

Lets hear from Mudcatters and really listen for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 12:53 PM

For the Record:

1) I DO consider 'our' forum still a pleasant place to hang out and and goof off or have a good discussion (and much more) and I DO support members-only in the BS section. Think of the annual Getaway: if Guests showed up in random numbers no one would know how much food to cook or how many beds to provide. There is a reason that one registers. Registration eliminates confusion.

2) Continuing the Getaway analogy, YES, I definitely support the officials' participation even if on occasion they have to settle a dispute and sometimes rule against my views.

3) Say the officials are participating in the current music scene but on occasion make it known that they hope to someday move the whole shebang to another location that is more to the liking of most of the participants, Sure. Why not? We'll live, and may even love the new location.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 06 - 12:48 PM

I have previously answered your questions, but to sum up.

1. I believe a members only posting helps prevent some of the attacking that goes on here. It won't cure it, but I think it is a good deterrent and would help improve things.

2. As this is not a website that hinges on life and death, I think the moderators should be able to post their views and still operate on a friendly and infomative basis. I feel that Joe has been honest, and while I may not have posted some of the comments he made, I feel that he operates with a fair and open mind.

3. As I said, I think you took this statement way out of context and there is no "evidence" in the mountains of cutting and pasting that you have done that would convince me that Joe's so-called "agenda" is causing any problems except for yours. You have become a special case and I do not wish to drift this thread beyond the three original questions you posed. PM me if you would like a further explanation, or re-explanation.

Nuff said on the subject.