BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:43 PM

Bouncers love KARMA.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 01:19 PM

"The fact is that it does remain our show. "

No it is not. We are guests at their show.   

Bouncers rules, like it or not, is what we are required to live by. If you can't convince the host to make changes after all this time - it probably won't happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 12:18 PM

The fact will always remain, it is not our show.

The fact is that it does remain our show.

It is not our anonymous Mudfelf's show? He, she or it is just a bouncer.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 12:08 PM

You have been told by an official editor, Shambles. TOLD, do you hear?

Of course he has. Discussing it with him has been tried for years. Doesn't work, mainly because he doesn't want it too. No discussion. This is how it is. Mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM

Life goes on.

Again, I don't see this as a problem. It is nothing to lose sleep over, and I do not consider this censorship because of the way the site has ALWAYS been designed.

The moderators (assigned by the owner of this site) can edit as they see fit. You have the right to complain, but understand they have the right to do what they do.

Of course that is my opinion, and I realize that you have a different one Shambles. The fact will always remain, it is not our show.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:49 AM

An offer not to be refused

I have no idea what this thread was about and I don't expect that our forum will ever know.

Some things are just none of your business, Shambles. Threads and posts that are spam, or sales gimmicks, do not require your input. It is neither sought nor desired. Mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:05 AM

There are numerous 'silent deletions' on threads. The queen is at it. Loves that edit button.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 09:27 AM

So Wolfgang, if I am reading your posts correctly, you admit that you are acting just like Shambles? And that solves what exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:51 AM

Wolfgang asks:

Was that a normal response to a simple question?

Perhaps you would have preferred a response like the following?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Big Mick - PM
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 05:34 PM

Request considered. Denied.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:13 AM

You may have missed the following editing comment, as it was inserted into an existing post (even though no editing action was imposed) and did not refresh this thread.

Crap deleted and discussion moved here (click) to another thread on the same subject. Thanks for pointing that out, Shambles.
-Joe Offer-

[Sound of deafening applause]

Thank goodness for all these tireless and selfless efforts - as a result of which - we can all sleep soundly in our beds all night.

Or some of us can. Some of us wake up to find that we have judged, our posts are no longer there, no longer as posted or the the entire thread has been anonymously deleted, moved, combined or closed.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 07:37 AM

I clear English he says:

I won't include dates in birthday threads even if it is possible as long as the moderators can use more characters in titles than I can.

Wolgang: The way you have post this indicates that it is a quote. Perhaps you would confirm that it is not.

In any discussion about what another poster should or should not place in a threads title - the fact that our 'moderators' still have more characters available to them for this purpose than ordinary posters is of course perfectly relevant.

Especially when our 'moderators' are seen to judge our efforts to try and make thread titles informative as wanting - when they impose their judgement and use the additional characters available to them - to create a longer title. And to do this without the originators knowledge or permission.

Ron - please make Wolfgang happy and tell him what he wants to hear. Please tell him that you agree that I am acting like a child and that he (and a few others) are not. The important point is that this situation is seen to place very little credit at all on any of us on our forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 04:57 AM

C'mon, Ron,

when I make the same suggestion for the second time I'm already adpting Shambles? You must have read all that nonsense. But I'm repeating it once more:

my first request:
may I ask you here to include the respective date in the title. That would make these threads more user friendly.

Shambles' response:
Then rather that post here only to judge - please by all means place there anything that you judge would make those threads (and any other threads) more interesting and informative. I place only the little information I do to encourage others to post their contributions. I also learn a lot form this and also from surfing to find the information.

That used to be the postive way things used to work on our forum - before posters were encouraged by the negative example given ONLY to pass judgements on the worth of a thread or post or of the worth of the poster and to call them names. And encouraged to simply swoon with horror at the thought of seing the titles of more than one thread at a time.

If it is a thread with little information - why not encourage other posters to provide it?

If a thread is questionably music related - then add it and attempt to keep it there - rather only judge it and than ask that it be relegated to the BS.

These birthday threads were an idea to try and return some of the old spirit of shared fun and joint discovery that makes our forum different to those sites obbsessed only with order.   

To encourage the act of posting - not to find ways that CAN only inhibit the posting of reasonable discussion.

Was that a normal response to a simple question? Something like "good idea" or "No, I'm not going to do that"? Nearly all of the "response" was completely unrelated to my question and made no sense in that context. As for the place there anything that you judge would make those threads (and any other threads) more interesting and informative that did miss my point. Whatever I add will not be in the title and therefore not show in the forum search which I prefer as long as the super search is not updated. I may want to look in a year or two who had birthday on a certain day and was mentioned already in MC. With the super search not updated this will be a time consuming and tedious task.

When I asked him in this thread once more he reacted not like a more than 50 years old adult. Had he said anything clearly here and not acted like a child I would never have asked the same request in a music thread. I do not think that repeating the same question again and again and again after a clear response is a valid way of arguing. But if I have not read a serious response I may ask again. That's what I did.

And I did include his first response so he could see why I was asking again. I did hope that outside of this Shamblecentric thread he would act a bit more reasonable than he does in here. I care about MC as a music resource and therefore I try to make it more useful whenever possible. I still think my suggestion to include the birth date in the title is a good one. Shambles was reading in(to) that request another attack upon his holy right to post in whatever way he likes.

Since more than two years he does not react to simple suggestions or corrections of fact or questions how he has meant a post in any remotely reasonable way.

He did choose in the music thread not to give me a clear response but to mention his crusade against the moderators:
The problem - as you well know is that - with the longer names - ordinary posters like me - do not always have enough characters available to them to place the birthdate in the title.
That had again no meaningful relation to my request so I did ask on for the simple reason that I did not understand the reasoning behind the words. (Same as you do when you ask him something)


Finally then, for the first time Shambles gave a reason why he is not willing (he says "able") to follow my suggestion:

I have already explained to you that with the number of characters available to ordinary posters - it is not always possible to include the birthdate in the title. When that problem is addressed and solved - I will then be able to do what you keep on requesting me to do.

My God, if he had written something like that as the first response he could have saved a lot of typing and would not have ruined a music thread he had started.

I clear English he says:
I won't include dates in birthday threads even if it is possible as long as the moderators can use more characters in titles than I can.

The reasoning behind this argumentation makes not much sense to me and once more reminds me rather of a stubborn boy than of a grown up person but it finally a clear statement.

There is no need now any longer to repeat my suggestion more often than perhaps once a year.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 03:09 AM

Well, I think the moderators should be applauded for doing their job. Adding "squabble" to the one thread makes perfect sense and the other thread remains to contain on target conversation about the topic.

Perhaps? I suggest that any applause be reserved for such time as there is any evidence that such actions are seen to be entirely free from any suspicion of being part of selective and personally motivated witch-hunt on our forum.

For until other poster are seen to be able to post abusive personal judgements only and be safe from any censure and the 'hi-jacking of other threads by them containing this are NOT encouraged to be subjected to such a public frenzy - which seems to be reserved for selective posters only - perhaps any applause is rather hollow? For example.

2,600 Iraq civilians killed in September

But the bottom line is always - is this action actually having any positive affect for our forum - or is it counter-productive? I think there is much evidence that this continuing patchy and unequal treatment of posters by our 'moderators' is counter-productive and very little evidence that it is at all effective. Nor what its aims are.

Whatever these aims may be - they do not appear to include ensuring that our forum can continue to be open for the public's contributions - as it always has.

There could be some suspicion that in fact (some of) our current 'moderators' are actually set on creating a situation where their favoured concept of a change to members only posting is considered by Max more favourable than it currently appears to be.

---

Crap deleted and discussion moved here (click) to another thread on the same subject. Thanks for pointing that out, Shambles.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:38 PM

"my view is that all of this anonymous imposition, suspicion, paranoia and fuss over creating two of these birthday threads on our forum - makes very little logical sense to me..... "

I do agree,the fuss over the two threads make very little sense to me. The moderator resolved it, like it or not, and it becomes time to move on to bigger things.

And I do agree with you Shambles, some of your threads are hijacked by posters (such as what occured in Art Blakely)without any reason.   The topic is started, let it alone. There is no need for ANYONE to drift or attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:30 PM

Adding "squabble" to the one thread makes perfect sense and the other thread remains to contain on target conversation about the topic.

That is your view - which unlike me - you are welcome to express on any thread you wish.

But as all the hysteria and restrictions on my posting is justified as protecting our forum from 'duplicate posts' - and the 'hi-jacking' of threads - my view is that all of this anonymous imposition, suspicion, paranoia and fuss over creating two of these birthday threads on our forum - makes very little logical sense to me.....

What would make sense is to enable all posters to make longer thread titles. See this (now closed) thread.

TECH Longer thread titles please

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:01 PM

Another gem from Snitchers Corner.

Please remove Shambles

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:33 PM

Well, I think the moderators should be applauded for doing their job. Adding "squabble" to the one thread makes perfect sense and the other thread remains to contain on target conversation about the topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:21 PM

Art Blakey's birthday (11 October 1919)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:18 PM

Art Blakey's birthday squabble

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:03 PM

Amen..

Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions: Mudcatter-made SecretSanta gi
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:58 PM

Can we please not have to endure this moron cluttering up this thread too....

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:33 PM

O wad some Power the giftie gie us,
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
(from Robert Burns: To a louse)

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM

You address it by adopting it?

Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions: Mudcatter-made SecretSanta gifts
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:19 PM

My point is made and and at least partly taken.

For my Mudcat Secret Santa - I would like all posters to be able to make nice long thread titles - like this one now is.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:17 PM

SO if you don't like the behavior you adopt it?

No, I address it, so that next time Shambles may respond to a simple suggestion with a simple response and not try to make his response part of his obsession.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions for Mudcatter-made SS gifts
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:08 PM

Only yours Shambles... or what passes for yours.

Damn good idea Kat!!

Subject: RE: BS: Suggestions for Mudcatter-made SS gifts
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:04 PM

SS gifts - the mind boggles..........

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:02 PM

And I moved on. I suggest you do the same.

Thank you for your suggestion.

But it was only the fact that that I have carried on that enabled you to make your suggestion in this thread.

And as a result of this thread remaining open for free and open discussion of this subject (so far) - perhaps the next time your humour and intentions are misunderstood - your threads containing this - will also be allowed to remain open?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM

SO if you don't like the behavior you adopt it?   Hmmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:53 AM

Has Art Blakey's birthday been 'hijacked'?

Yes, Shambles, it has, and you've been the one to start that with your response to a simple suggestion, a response that had nearly nothing to do with my request but all with your crusade.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:52 AM

I recall 2 threads I started that were deleted (well, "closed", actually)...

In both cases it was due to what I regardes as harmless humour but that someone else deemed offensive to some particular group of people (but not the same group, by the way). (in one case I was making fun of really obnoxious rappers, most of whom are assumed to be black, generally speaking) (in the other case I was posting in a ridiculous quasi-Japanese accent...but the person who deleted the thread has no way of knowing that I respect and like the Japanese far more than most other westerners do...but so what?)

I was surprised to have my threads terminated. Both times. I didn't expect that. I momentarily was a bit irritated about it. Then I accepted the fact that (1) I don't control the rest of the world and I never shall; and (2) it didn't matter much anyway.

And I moved on. I suggest you do the same. Think of the time and energy you will save which can be put to good use doing something constructive.

Think of the time I have just wasted typing out this piece of advice which you will surely not follow. ;-) LOL! We are all big time wasters when it comes right down to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:39 AM

The closed threads were not all started by one person unless that person is posting under multiple identities.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:27 AM

approximately 50 closed threads out of over 95 thousand threads. yes, horribly oppressive.

When all 50 of them were started by you - perhaps you may think it so?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:24 AM

Has Art Blakey's birthday been 'hijacked'?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:18 AM

Maybe. But Shambles tells more truth than CNN.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:13 AM

Blah, blah, blah...

Worse than CNN.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: MMario
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:42 AM

approximately 50 closed threads out of over 95 thousand threads. yes, horribly oppressive.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST,He Who Shall Not be Named
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:36 AM

I support Shambles for his bravery here, and for his ability to expose Corporate Mudcat for what it is.

This place is a cesspool of much anti-American activity.

Mudcat and al-Qaida, arm in arm against America.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 04:28 AM

Surely that applies to any thread - closed or not? Once it's gone off the bottom, you've got to take some action to find it.

Yes of course. But having taken this action and the time and trouble to find it, being able to read a thread is only one part of the inter-active experience that is our forum.

For having taken this time and trouble to find a thread - you may then wish to contribute to it. Which you not be able to do - if the thread has been subject to closure for some unspecified reason by some anonymous 'moderator'.

And of course you will only know - after you have read (or scrolled down) the entire thread - if you do wish to add something. And only at this point will you see a little note by the box you are about to make your contribution in, telling you that you cannot do this - as the thread is closed..........

Then when you have started a new thread on the subject - you will find a post from some helpful poster (often a 'moderator') who will inform you and our forum - that we have already discussed this subject in an earlier thread (perhaps not being aware that it was not possible to refresh this earlier thread.

Even when you find that the in question thread is not closed and it is possible to refresh it - posters are not sure if this is judged to be the best course of action. As after you have done this - you will find a post fron some helpful poster (often a 'moderator' telling you and our forum that this is not the right thing to do and suggesting that starting a new thread would be the correct course of action.

I have seen both actions to be publicly judged right and be judged wrong by our 'moderators'. No wonder posters are confused.

So in addition to the direct inhibition cause by our 'moderators' intentionally making it impossible for a poster to refreash a closed thread - there is indirect inhibition cause by this uncertainty about whether either of these actions will be seen to be judged wrong by our 'moderators'.

I would have thought that the role of any 'moderation, would be to be seen to enable and encourage posting and would not wish to be seen in any way to inhibit any poster from contributing. That does not now appear to be the case on our forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Blowzabella
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 03:18 AM

The only way any poster can read a closed thread (once it falls of the bottom is if they search for a thread they will not know even exists, or if there is the link to the thread provided.

Surely that applies to any thread - closed or not? Once it's gone off the bottom, you've got to take some action to find it.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 02:44 AM

You may not know it, Shambles, but you can read that thread.
click
So one part of what you say is simply not true.

Thank you Wolfgang - You have a backward way of saying it - but I am glad you accept the rest of what I say is being perfectly true.

A poster cannot refresh a closed thread as they cannot post to it. The only way any poster can read a closed thread (once it falls of the bottom is if they search for a thread they will not know even exists, or if there is the link to the thread provided.

Perhaps - IF THESE ROUTINE THREAD CLOSURES ARE TO CONTINUE - Our 'moderators' can always ensure that there is a record of the thread kept for posters to see and a permanent link provided to enable posters to read the clossed thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 11:22 PM

And here I don't even know who the 'queen-bee mod' is. The sham is SO right; there is real hysteria about.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:29 PM

The power of the private edit button.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:28 PM

Go slag a mod. The post will disappear within 12 hours. Especially posts about the queen-bee mod.

Rip the shit out of a regular member and the shit will stick around. Shambles is right about much he says.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:24 PM

The suggestion that our forum be a place where all threads remain open to be refreshed by any poster - may seem totally idealistic to many posters - when it is of course nothing of the sort.

So routine has thread closure now become that it may be news to some posters that our forum managed perfectly well for many years without any threads being closed at all. It was only fairly recently that our 'moderators' were armed with this weapon.

I see that as a sad day for our forum. For now our 'moderators' scratch around to find an excuse to close a thread and encourage other posters to suggests candidates for closure - and give the impression that this has always been the case and that it achieves something.

The reason I refer to it as finding an excuse - is that although the act of imposing closure on threads has now become routine it makes no difference to the running of our forum nor improved the level of posting behaviour on our forum.

The hysteria now generated on our forum by the concept of imposing closure on threads has become nothing but a counter-productive distraction. an end in itself. Playing about with posters invited contributions now appears to have become a bit of a fun game for our 'moderators'.

Posters are now encouraged to take part in this game by finding threads to be closed - (along with other imposed actions on the post of others) - rather than be encouraged to simply concentrate on their own posting. It would be nice to see a return on our forum to where all threads remained open.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 09:15 AM

Nonsense shambles. The idea that the mods go round looking for an excuse to close threads exists only in your mind.

No - the idea exists alright - in Snitchers Corner

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:24 AM

not to be able to read, contribute or refresh the thread at all. (Shambles)

You may not know it, Shambles, but you can read that thread.
click
So one part of what you say is simply not true.

As for posting and refreshing, you are invited by Joe to post to other Dubliners' threads and I'm sure he'd be pleased if you just start a follow up thread with a link to the old thread in the first post. That would be a constructive act instead of headbanging.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 08:06 AM

Nonsense shambles. The idea that the mods go round looking for an excuse to close threads exists only in your mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 07:58 AM

Nonsense shambles. The idea that the mods go round looking for an excuse to close threads exists only in your mind.

Is it only in my mind that (for his own purposes) the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has intentionally littered this thread with the very same type of spam which its appearence there - he has used as an excuse to closed the Dubliners thread?

I expect any minute that he will use its presence in this thread as a excuse to close this one down too................Even though it was the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team who placed the spam here, unbidden in response to an anonymous 'compalint'.. Please delete spam

Not of course an act that would be described as 'hijacking' a thread. As those sort terms are now reserved for a poster simply posting any views that the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team does not agree with and wishes to prevent our forum from seeing.

Rather like the use of the term 'complaint' and the restrictions now seen to be imposed on any post so judged and described by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team as any view that he may not agree with. When any poster is seen to be permitted to express any flattering views about our 'moderators' efforts as often and in as many threads as they wish without getting relgated to the BS section.

But where 'complaints' in posts, from one poster about the posting of another are not restricted or discouraged at all, but actively encouraged on our forum and where there is now even a special Snitchers Corner set-up for this - called The Mudcat Help and Trouble Forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 06:09 AM

... allow our 'moderators' to be seen to use it as yet another excuse to close yet another thread.

Nonsense shambles. The idea that the mods go round looking for an excuse to close threads exists only in your mind.