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BS: Closed threads & deleted posts.
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Sep 06 - 12:54 PM "I have seen no argument presented here that has pursuaded me to change my views. I may yet............" PLEASE TRY AND RESPOND TO THE OBVIOUS POST REQUEST BELOW....PERHAPS YOU CAN SEE THAT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK FROM MAX, IN WHICH CASE YOU NEED TO GO!!!! Subject: From Max: State of the Union AddressShambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell.There ya' go....and there you SHOULD go WeenieBoy!!!(:<)) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Sep 06 - 12:48 PM The thing about public discussion fora, is that they involve give and take on the part of the contributors. Your self centred mania, and refusal to respond to legitimate queries, or discuss your overhyped grievances places you outwith those parameters. The habit of keeping on asking the same question over and over again hoping to get the answer you want, is a form of bullying, a thing you often complain about others doing to you. Just because your bullying follows a different format from others who may adopt a more direct line, it doesn't make it any less oppressive to those at whom it is aimed. JGM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Sep 06 - 12:38 PM I have no control over the posting of others and have no wish to. All that I have ever tried to do on our forum is to post my honest views. That others may judge posting these honest views to be seen in emotive and combative terms like: Attacking, Hijacking, Duplication, Domination, Crowding-out, Controlling, Manipulating, Trolling, Flaming, Spamming Etc Etc - is their problem. The reality is that these are simply views posted to our forum for discussion - which is its purpose. Why are those who perhaps should know better, now seen to encourage the simple act of of posting to a forum set-up for public discussion to be seen and judged in such terms? I suggest it is because they do wish to have control over the posting of others, assume that others are similarly motivated and see any poster trying to express a different view to be a direct threat to their ability to continue impose their judgement on the posting of others. I suggest that it is time for a change to an open less combative approach - where 'moderators' are not seen to be in open conflict with our forum's contributors and all are seen to be treated equally and not encouraged to subjected to bullying public witch-hunts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Sep 06 - 10:36 AM "I have seen no argument presented here that has pursuaded me to change my views. I may yet............" PLEASE TRY AND RESPOND TO THE OBVIOUS POST REQUEST BELOW....PERHAPS YOU CAN SEE THAT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK FROM MAX, IN WHICH CASE YOU NEED TO GO!!!! Subject: From Max: State of the Union AddressShambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell.There ya' go....and there you SHOULD go WeenieBoy!!!(:<)) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,Ennui 1st Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:33 AM No the roundabout and underhand, not to mention indirect attack is more your style isn't it Shambles Sweetie? Agent provocateur is the correct term I think, you are like a little mosquito, anybody within reach will do, but with a preference for clones. I bet as a little boy,(maybe you still do it), you stamped your feet and said "Shan't" when your Mommy told you to do things. Maybe she should have whupped your ass a bit more often to break you of the habit of being truculent, which is how you come over on here. As a sulking truculent baby. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:12 AM "If they are responding to him" seems to be the operative phrase. Who else would a personal attack be responding too but the one being attacked? As I do not post personal attacks on Catspaw or anyone else and do not respond in kind to the many that are encouraged to be made to me and that I am not protected from - any personal attack posted about me - will be unprovoked. So even using Mick's strange logic - these personal attacks cannot be justified - by our 'moderators' just because they may share the sentiments. In some of Mick's earlier posts he encourages posters not to use this thread for discussion - but by this later comment - he is actively encouraging the posting of abusive personal attacks to be made about certain posters in this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: manitas_at_work Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:50 AM "If they are responding to him" seems to be the operative phrase. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 29 Sep 06 - 08:45 AM Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Big Mick - PM Date: 22 Sep 06 - 04:14 PM I agree that if one uses personal attacks on Shambles, they will be eliminated. If they are responding to him, silly though I believe that to be, that will be allowed. I am not sure if our forum can expect Catspaw to be eliminated by Big Mick or not? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:54 PM And then again, YOU, SHAMBOLINA, may have missed the following post:********************************************************************* "I have seen no argument presented here that has pursuaded me to change my views. I may yet............" I guess widdle Shamby Pamby can't see too well. Try this:Subject: From Max: State of the Union AddressShambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell.There ya' go....and there you SHOULD go WeenieBoy!!!(:<)) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:49 PM You may have missed the following editing comment - as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh this thread. Note: non-music birthday and obituary threads are routinely moved into the non-music section. If it's a thread about a musician that ends up being just congratulations and condolences without music information, it will also eventually get moved. But you knew that already. It has been said many times before. Yes, it is a matter of judgment and it's not always a clear-cut matter. But that's what we get paid the big bucks for. -Joe Offer- Perhaps - as it is not clear-cut - our forum can be left to decide a threads fate? If it is of interest - it will be posted to - if it is not - it will fall off the page. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:47 PM "I have seen no argument presented here that has pursuaded me to change my views. I may yet............" I guess widdle Shamby Pamby can't see too well. Try this:Subject: From Max: State of the Union Address |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:25 PM Skipy, who will read whatever you write in the future when you let this crap drop. Unlike you - I only have this thread to express my views on. The only way I will be permitted to post my views elsewhere will be if I am prepared to change them. I have seen no argument presented here that has pursuaded me to change my views. I may yet............ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: skipy Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:05 PM Shambles, this may piss you off! I have stayed off this thread for ages, I have not asked for you to be removed, I have said that you need some help and / or some space, but the bit that will piss you off is that there is someone else that is more of a pain in the arse than you are (no names, no pack drill!) so you are not number 1 anymore, how does that feel? There is another that pisses me off more than you do! Time to regroup & lick your wounds, time to reflect, time to accept, time to grow up, time to be humble & let this thread die. Skipy, who will read whatever you write in the future when you let this crap drop. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 28 Sep 06 - 06:49 PM Subject: RE: Obit: Steve Irwin is dead From: GUEST Date: 04 Sep 06 - 01:33 AM Sorry, this has nothing to do with music, should be in the BS section -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No need for this notice. Obituaries should be started with the "Obituary" tag, whether or not they deal with music. The Clones and I will eventually move the thread to non-music if that's where it belongs. That process seems easier than having two "obit" tags, one for music and one not. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: MMario Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:11 PM Obits were originally in the upper section. As were all other headings EXCEPT BS: After a time Obits may (in fact usually) get tagged as non music and drop below the line that has been procedure and custom since the heading tage were instituted. nothing new. nothing strange. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 28 Sep 06 - 12:54 PM Birthday threads For some reason it is now judged that having obit threads on the music related section is OK - even when whoever the unfortunate person is has no musical connection at all. There is even a prefix for such threads. To my mind when someone has died it is really a little late to post nice things about them or to say how they may have influenced your life etc. As they certainly will not be able to read it. And it is not considered good form (by some posters) to post anything in such threads that may be seen as any way critcal or to be too silly. Wolfgang's attempt (in this thread) to provide some reasoning behind our 'modertaors' erratic treatment of 'birthday threads' gave me an idea. As this would remain on the music section, where all contributors would see it. I thought that starting a thread there on some musically related persons birthday (whether they were still alive or not) - would give our forum a chance to say what they wished to about that person, without feeling that they were expected to be reverential. Or posters could decide for themselves whether they wished to post to it at all. If the featured person were still lucky enough to be alive - there is a chance that they may even read and appriciate it. It seemed to me to be a bit more positive and less depressing to keep reading on our forum the names of all those who had died. But such is the nature of the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's witch-hunt - that the regular's on 'snitchers corner' [The Mudcat Help and Trouble Forum] have already suspected and found some terrible motive for such threads and have alerted 'Big Brother'. Perhaps encouraging all this paranoid silliness can now be ended and all posters be seen to be treated equally?
Yes, it is a matter of judgment and it's not always a clear-cut matter. But that's what we get paid the big bucks for. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 27 Sep 06 - 06:27 PM Things may change - but only when posters once again feel free to express their views, whatever they may be - free from the fear of the special restrictions, intimidation and bullying we see encouraged here - being addressed towards them. It would not be surprising if the regular guest posters on this thread turn-out to one and the same. But I am not surprised that many those who post their views now choose do so anonymously - been this be seen as 'support' or the very opposite. . Including those who would feel themselves qualified to anonymously impose their judgement on me and their other fellow posters. The whole point is to try and enable open discussion to take place on this issue as on any other subject on our forum - the fact that various attempts are made to prevent this and posters are openly encouraged to take part in this, is regretable and reflects very little credit on our forum. But things may change - let us all hope they will improve. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,Ennui 1st Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:47 PM Judging by your non stop perusal of this site, I would think you'd make an ideal moderator. Only thing is, that if you were one, the rest would probably all leave. Except of course the mysterious Guest that has materialised in you support. Odd that isn't it, you've had more support from one anonymous poster in the last few weeks, than you've had from named Mudcatters in the last 8 years? How convenient too. |
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Subject: RE: Just found Mudcat too From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:09 PM But if this thread is so judged and relegated to the BS - then so must the following. Just found Mudcat |
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Subject: RE: Just found Mudcat too From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 01:06 PM Is this not BS material? Apparently not - but the following thread is judged to be When was Mudcat lost? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 26 Sep 06 - 10:59 AM "Shambles-you just are bloody moan too much and make trubble!" Shambles does moan at times. However, it's others who make the trouble. What is the sound of one hand clapping? Answer that and you'll know the difficulties don't come from Shambles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 26 Sep 06 - 09:41 AM That really is a gem, Shambles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 09:31 AM Very few people would expect a regular football match - with an open invitation for all to take part - to be thought or seen to be a fair contest, when the referee judged it to be acceptable for them to also play in the game as a participant. Perhaps in order for this to be seen to be a fair game - they may expect this referee to make a choice to either be a referee or to be a player? Especially when they started sending other players off for what they judged to be unfair play. Even without the referee wishing to play both roles - most people would be surprised that such a game of football would ever get completed - if this referee kept trying to change the rules, in order turn it into a game of rugby. And tried to exclude some players from the pitch altogether, whilst trying to pursuade the rest of players that this change was a far better idea than the original concept. It would not be too much of a surprise if this referee was not asked or expected to play whatever game they wanted and by whatever rules - but to do this elsewhere and to leave everyone else to get on with their football match. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 08:53 AM I notice that KREX's birthday has not been relegated to the BS section. So perhaps with our forum's 10th birthday coming up - there is to be a more common sense approach to such things for posters to look forward to in the next ten years? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 08:19 AM Subject: RE: Please Delete Spam From: Joe Offer Date: 17-Sep-06 - 03:21 AM Sorry, but I can't sift out all the Guest posts from the others, without messing with a thread more than I feel comfortable doing. I agree that the conspiracy-theory posts add nothing to the thread, and tend to stifle real discussion. guess that's a good reason for blocking Guest posts in the non-music section. -Joe Offer- Are posts from guests ('i.e' non members) going to be blocked? If this is Max's intention can this be stated? If this is NOT Max's intention - can our 'moderators' be instructed to stop publicly 'pitching' for this? To work under the current set-up or to leave and set-up their own forum where they can block who they wish? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 08:04 AM Any one care to try and explain and justify why the BS thread Do you support the status quo? was first deleted anonymously with no editing comment of explanation. Then was later combined with the musical thread Do You support the Status Quo, renamed and relegated to the BS? And why 'any other thread' started (certainly by me) with the same general interest to ALL posters as this Mudcat birthday thread would do - if it were allowed by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team to remain on our forum at all - would undoubtably and quickly be relgated to the BS section? Perhaps the sensible answer - to avoid the wrong judgement call being made and to enable all posters on our now divided forum to equally contribute to these discussions - would be to have all such threads on both sections? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 26 Sep 06 - 07:14 AM A birthday thread about a music resource (for instance: Mudcat) belongs in the music section in my opinion. It would have in Shambles' opinion too had it been moved to the BS section... Shambles' judgement on what is right or wrongis dependant on what the moderators do or don't do. They must be wrong - simple as that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,jOhn Date: 26 Sep 06 - 07:04 AM Shambles-you just are bloody moan too much and make trubble! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Wolfgang Date: 26 Sep 06 - 07:00 AM Interesting that a thread where nice things are said about the Mudcat Editing Team still proudly remains on the music section. When any other birthday thready would be quickly relegated to the BS (Shambles, emphasis mine) You are not telling the truth as everyone can easily see by searching for threads with the word "birthday" in them. Birthday threads about known musicians remain in the music section (Martin Carthy, Phil Ochs, Bob Dylan, to name but a few). Birthday threads about normal (or even less normal Mudcatters, like Joe O.) are usually started with the BS tag and reamin in this section. Birthday threads for normal Mudcatters without the BS tag have (mostly) been moved down. One instance: A Shambles birthday thread. A birthday thread about a music resource (for instance: Mudcat) belongs in the music section in my opinion. The reasons you allude to why threads are moved or not cannot be substantiated by looking at the pattern which birthday threads are moved and which are not moved. The pattern you see, wexists only in your head. And the any other thread is an outright lie. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 06:37 AM You will see that the thread Responses to racism has not (yet) been subjected to imposed closure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 06:12 AM Responses to bullying Which was closed with the following editing comment of explanation. I think it's time to close this thread. Reason: bullying, which constitutes a gang approach to a personal attack. I'm glad you suggested it, Roger. Joe Offer Of course – I had suggested no such thing and if this action had been undertaken at my suggestion – it would have been the about the first only suggestion of mine that was had ever been selected for implementation by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 05:55 AM Please delete personal attack? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: catspaw49 Date: 25 Sep 06 - 11:20 PM Aw Mick, that ain't right. Lemmee help you out here. Shambolina you say that you need an explanation "provided to indicate where, why and when such action has been judged necessary?" Okay Rog.....Here's one you can always refer to should someone zap a post. One of your flakey posts on some thread or another was zapped the other day because it was another of your sillyass and repetitious rants built around misquotes and out of context, copy and paste, bullshit. If it had any redeeming value it was moved to this thread, otherwise it is gone into the ether and only it's smell remains. That ought to cover all of your problems......except for the fact that you haven't left after Max asked you to go. Have a nice day Twiddles. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: Big Mick Date: 25 Sep 06 - 07:12 PM Tough, Rog. You earned it. You get one thread for this. You can have it forever or until Max has had enough. You may post on other threads as long as you don't try to swing the topic to this same old tired stuff. Proof of that is found in several other threads where you are currently posting. GUEST may admire you, that is his right. I think that is misguided and ignores 7 or 8 years of your rants and taking over threads. And yes, you can request. It has been considered. Request denied. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:54 PM Nope. Until Max pulls the plug on him, Shambles gets his one complaint thread to express what's important to him. If it gets out of hand, I'll close it and he can start another thread. But if I close this one now, Shambles will just start another thread, and another after that, and another. I have no desire to do battle with him. I wish people would ignore him so maybe be'd be talking to a wall and get bored and talk about something else, or go away. -Joe Offer- You may have missed the following editing comment as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh the thread. It is not wise to take too much notice of any assurances given by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team. This thread is to be kept open, so Roger can say whatever it is that he needs to say. -Joe Offer- The above assurance was given in the following thread Do you need to be censored? which (along with all the other threads on this subject) - is now closed. In future and to avoid posters being confused about which are their personal views and what are the official editing comments of our 'moderators' expressed in the course of their roles - perhaps all editing comments can be seen to be limited to where some form of imposed censorship has actually taken place and that an editing comment is ALWAYS provided to indicate where, why and when such action has been judged necessary? And no reference to editing actions be made - especially like any poster being able to impose their judgement on others - is ever contained in a conventional posting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,Joe Offer (at the Women's Center) Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:35 PM Damn. Missed it. No, I don't plan to close the thread. This is Shambles' home. That's NOT a promise. Situations may force me to change my mind. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST,Joe Offer at the Women's Center Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:33 PM Am I #500? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:33 PM 500 NOW CLOSE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:27 PM Posters may be encourage to see this problem as only being an individual poster. And if you do see it as this - the public witch-hunt can be carried on in Not posting to a thread Then perhaps this thread can be left for anyone who wishes to discuss the issue? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: number 6 Date: 25 Sep 06 - 05:01 PM Who really cares that much to keep this argument going ... certainly not me. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:50 PM "So ..... just ignore him" Likewise you can just ignore those of us who have issues with Shambles posting style. It is a two-way street. "Verbally attacking consistantly is no less honourable than his mumbly rambles" That is a judgement call. "Honour" can be interpreted in various ways. "he states what he does and does not guise himself as a Guest." Do you know that for a fact? Do you believe that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:50 PM BTW ... he states what he does and does not guise himself as a Guest. That does not make what he does any better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:45 PM Simple solution for you. Do NOT read his posts. If the ingestion of salt acuses your BP to rise, you should ascribe the cause of the problem to a) the salt? b) the ingestion of the salt? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: number 6 Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:44 PM So ..... just ignore him. Verbally attacking consistantly is no less honourable than his mumbly rambles. BTW ... he states what he does and does not guise himself as a Guest. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:36 PM Shambles quotes out of context, distorts facts, accuses others, etc. No he doesn't use the same tactics but it's easy enough to see why people end up saying what they do in exasperation with him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: number 6 Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:08 PM Yes, shambles posts can ramble on and on ... it's your choice, all one has to do is ignore them ... but of course there those that don't. But, I have to agree with Guest that "He has never, to my knowledge, resorted to the types of statements many of his detractors have"... and some of them have been downright mean and ugly. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 06 - 04:05 PM Of course, even though he does not resort to the same types of statements that his detractors have used, Roger has his own style of causing problems. I may admire his fortitude, but there comes a time when fortitude is replaced by ineptitude. Much of what he has been doing appears to be an attempt to sooth his own ego and avoid the perception that he admits he has been wrong in his actions. Ya got brass ones Roger, but they could use a little polish |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 06 - 03:57 PM Not to Roger it isn't. Say what you wish about the Shambles, but over time he has gained my admiration for fortitude in the face of derision, scorn, slagging and bad things people have said to and about him. He has never, to my knowledge, resorted to the types of statements many of his detractors have. That says a bunch. Ya go brass ones, Roger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: gnu Date: 25 Sep 06 - 01:29 PM Jaysus, Roger. You got nothin better to do than crap and whine ALL fuckin day. (Ah, notice there was no question mark at the end of that sentence.) I read ONE of your posts for the first time in months and it's still crap and whine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Closed threads & deleted posts. From: The Shambles Date: 25 Sep 06 - 01:12 PM Mudcat's Birthday Interesting that a thread where nice things are said about the Mudcat Editing Team still proudly remains on the music section. When any other birthday thread would be quickly relegated to the BS - but perhaps not quite so quick as any thread where less than flattering comments and suggested improvements - were made about the same issue. |