BS: Time...and Space

Subject: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:34 PM

I suppose this should be 2 threads, but it was fun to use the title.

I wonder why so many people have serious problems specifying, dealing with and keeping track of time.

My wife recently needed to use the computer "for 5 minutes", so I interrupted what I was doing and said "sure". It was 15-20 minutes before she was finished. I have friends, both RT and online who say, "I'll be there about 3" or "in an hour" and miss it by 174%.
   I realize that it is impossible to predict exactly how long some things will take, and allowances MUST be made, but it seems that most folks underestimate time by a LOT.
   I especially don't comprehend those who say "Come to my party; it starts at 7."...and then are not nearly ready when I arrive at 7:15. What IS the secret formula, so you don't feel dumb and awkward?
   I don't mind adjusting to whatever schedule is reasonable, I just want folks to be honest about how long or what time makes sense.
Many years ago, when I entered Middle school and move between rooms rather than sit in one room all day, I started counting so I could tell whether I had time to stop at my locker and not be late to class, and I time my regular drives, so I know 'about' how long(depending on traffic) it will take to make a trip....and when I say I want to leave at 4, I include in my planning the time to get hat and coat, make one more bathroom stop, grab a drink, get downstairs, and warm up the car! I try not to be anal retentive about it, but I feel silly standing with my coat on, waiting 10-20 minutes.

I know people who are simply NEVER on time for anything except for plane flights...and they cut THAT pretty close.

I actually wonder if there might be something in the brain wiring that cannot cope with time.


But about space...*grin*

I recently bought an external hard drive for the computer...250 gigabytes!Wow...huge! My internal drive is 'only' 160! And 10 years ago, the entire PC with operating system and all, was only 600 MEGABYTES!
Now, yesterday, I get an ad for a deal on a new external drive from the same company...for $674, they will sell me a 1 TERABYTE drive!
...and Max says there is no real problem keeping the entire history of the Mudcat forum....probably forever.
   I see...sorta...why technology can do this sort of thing, but it does boggle the mind just what the implications are....and what a shock it would be if something happened to destroy this ability after we have based a lot of our lives on it....Take the idea of crashing your HD with no backup, and imagine that happening on some much larger scale. I already see warnings that THIS is how we may be attacked by some enemy in the future.....scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:44 PM

But, Bill, your dissertation on space has nothing to do with Space!! It is just about trace density on metallic surfaces, the intricacy of reliable bit-signaling at very small scales.

Now, Space itself--THERE is something worthpondering. Not the vast number of objects bouncing about in it, but why it is there at all. Even the big bang doesn't explain it, since one can only presume it must have had some space to bang into or to exist as a super-dense pre-bang singularity or whatver it was just before it banged.

Now, here's the real interesting question. You, I am sure, are in league with the many, many observers who assert that space is a function of mass, especially since Einstein demonstrated that large masses bend space.

But it is just possible that space is actually only secondarily linked to mass and is, in its origins, a byproduct of viewing itself, manufactured as a means to view dimensionality.

As to time -- well, see, some folks ain't quite as mechanistical as you might like, and some of them operate on "Moi time", the measure of their own sense of action in space, rather than surrendering the time-sense to some external ratchet and pawl mechanism somewhere, or a whirling rock. This is a matter of subjective preference, of course, and very irritiating to those who appreciate the mastery of Mechanism as a means for imposing order.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:07 PM

Hoped I would be able to add to this thread, something sensible, however, when I went to the Library to try to better myself...there were many books on 'the land' many books on 'the sea' but when I looked in the area marked 'Space' there were no books there.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: autolycus
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:31 PM

There are people who HATE being early.

   Or late.

   Some give the time they'll take that they think you want to hear.

   Aome wildly overestimate or underestimate what they can achieve.

   And all oif this can be not because of the brain but the unconscious,a matter not of biology or chemistry but psychology.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:49 PM

I've come to believe - and be comfortable with the notion - that people who say, I'll be there at 3:30, actually aim at leaving their house at that time, and of course there are many things that preclude one's leaving at any given time. Therefore, the person who planned to leave at 3:30 may easily find that it's 10 minutes before the hour before they pick up their purse (it is usually women, I'll grant you) and run because I'm so sorry to be late, but I got a phone call (or just remembered) that I had to make a phone call before I left the house. I'm so sorry.

Does that make sense? It does to me. And I am a person who errs in the other direction- I'm always early.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:04 PM

I actually have, when "she" said "well I'm waiting on you," - - gone to the truck to wait for her, drank all the coffee in my go cup, emptied the litter can, swept a few loose bits out, checked the oil, and met her coming out - as I went in to get another cup of coffee.

Then, of course, it was my fault we were late, even though I got my coffee and was back in the truck while she was still trying to stash her purse and get her seat belt on.

But I won't say whether "she" was the first wife or the last-one-so-far.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:05 PM

Furthermore, the person who is late in that scenario thinks of herself as being at most 20 minutes late (she knew that if she left her house at 3:30 it would take 10 minutes to get there) while the person who has been standing on the street corner since 3:25 thinks of the late person as being 35 minutes late.

That's life. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 03:44 PM

Yes, Amos....there is much new evidence and thinking about the very fundamental basis of 'space' in general. Even though I realize that the physical/metaphysical interface may someday show us things about reality that we can barely comprehend right now, I still suggest that we deal 99++++% in "relationships between physical entities" and require 'measurements' in replicable units. Even that new 1 terabyte drive needs to be larger to accomadate the data, since there is at the moment an absolute limit on how much data can BE stored on a disk...based partially on particle size of the substrate.....it is on a scale that we are just discovering, but still a 'physical' scale for now.

That's life, huh, Ebbie? ;^)....Does 'that person' who manages to rationalize being 35 minutes later than agreed on as 'only' 20 minutes also thereby manage to absolve herself of being late at all by being pleased at even LEAVING by 3:30?

What are guys..(usually guys) like John & I to do IF we seriously expect to actually back out of the driveway at a certain time? Lie about our REAL desires and set a time 30 min earlier? There is only a certain amount of nagging that will be tolerated...*grin*
Which reminds me of those who set clocks(and alarms) ahead to give themselves a buffer...but KNOW that they did, and mentally subtract those minutes, so they are just as late as usual?

Is there REALLY a desire in some to 'assert' something by refusing to be bound or constricted by 'clock time'? (Even when it means something like being late to a play or concert?)

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bee
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:02 PM

I had a friend I swore was chronologically impaired. He had no concept of time at all, would work til four in the morning then sleep til two in the aft - and he owned his own business. Invite him for dinner, he might show up at three, or nine, or the following day. Promised to drive me to a train station once, drove me 300km. because he missed the train time.

He was a really nice man, but the time thing was a real annoyance.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:39 PM

Hah! I can give BillD an example, to which I know he can relate, of people's apparent inablity to tell time making them perpetually early!

Let me pose a simple question to you, Bill:

How many times have you entered an art or craft show, received a confirmation letter that has said something like "Set-up will begin at 3PM on Friday.", and arrived at precisely 3PM to find that 90% of the other exhibitors are already set up?

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 04:50 PM

There is an art glass sale once a year in the spring on campus, and they start selling promptly at noon. For a few years you could hover but you couldn't pick it up. Then in later years you could pick it up but you couldn't buy it. Now it is listed at promptly at noon and the faculty and staff go over and buy the cheaper pieces early and the off-campus folks with the big bucks come in to buy at noon.

I believe this must also qualify as an explanation of relativity.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 05:10 PM

well, BeeDub...I don't do nearly as many shows as you, but yes, I have seen the attempt to beat the 'early rules'. Fortunately, most of the places I go now are wise to this and say "set up at 4...or whenever we get done marking up spaces"...it still leads to 'early line-up' to get best unloading spots, but is kept generally in hand. The other major show I do, I run myself, and is small enough that I can crack the whip when necessary....Obviously, this is a bit different from ignoring time, and falls into ignoring rules! That 'can' be dealt with....while getting folks to be on time when they have no vested interest cannot easily be so enforced.

I once saw a quote from some famous man saying..."I have always made punctuality a virtue....I am a very lonely man."

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM

I am one of those people who is always early for everything - I always seem to over-estimate how much time I need in order to get to a particular destination.

But what I really hate is waiting around. I tell myself that, in order to arrive on time, I need to leave the house at 7:00 pm (say) - but at 6:50 pm I can't bear the thought of 10 minutes of inaction (those 10 minutes appear to be an eternity!). But, of course, when I get to my destination 10 minutes early I still have to endure those 10 minutes until everyone else turns up (and they're usually at least 10 minutes late so I have to wait at least 20 minutes) - I can't win!

Another thing that I notice is that, on those rare occasions when I am late, people appear to be much harder on me than on those bozos who are habitually late for everything!

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 06:48 PM

"on those rare occasions when I am late, people appear to be much harder on me than on those bozos who are habitually late for everything! "


Because you have shattered their firm Illusions of Reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bert
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:11 PM

...I realize that it is impossible to predict exactly how long some things will take, and allowances MUST be made, but it seems that most folks underestimate time by a LOT...

THEY are the optimists amongst us Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: folk1e
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 07:31 PM

That is the difference between "objective time" and "subjective time"!
Five minutes is both a statement of the leingth of time and an indeterminate interval. As to Space...... well you can see that dissapear from your hard drive as an exponential of the time you use it for!
Now how about that "final frontier"?

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Midchuck
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 09:15 PM

I realized quite a while ago that if I allow just the right amount of time to get to an appointment, assuming there are no delays along the way, some delay develops and I am late. If I leave earlier to allow extra time for delays, none develop, and I'm early. Anyone else notice this?

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 08:11 AM

Hi Midchuck,

Yep, spot-on! I suppose that this is an example of 'Murphy's Law' (anything that can go wrong will etc.).

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:23 AM

Well...if you were to log all trips and arrival times, you would probably not see this. We tend to remember the times it DIDN'T work right. Depending on the event, I would rather have those extra minutes as a buffer zone and have to kill a few at the end of a trip than to always be rushing or making excuses to make up for not starting early enough.....but that's me.

Note: There ARE, of course, events where arrival time is arbitrary and not crucial....in those cases the only problem is when several people with different ideas of when they want to arrive are traveling together.

I still don't know know what to say about those who invite people for 7, and look shocked when anyone shows up before 7:30...*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: ranger1
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM

Bill, I am partnered with a SO who has no concept what-so-ever of time nd he drives me bonkers. His "I'm just going to run in and right back out" at the grocery store averages 30 minutes. When we are going somewhere, we are habitually an hour late (I have told all his relatives that if they wnt us there on time, to tell him to be there an hour earlier than they actually want us there. So far, they still haven't caught on). When he is antsy to get out the door to go somewhere and accuses me of dragging my feet, I can be ready to go in five minutes. He suddenly remembers 20 things that need doing that he could have done while waiting for me, rather than pacing around and mumbling under his breath. I end up sitting in the truck for 15-20 minutes waiting for him. Oh, yeah, I know what you mean!

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:33 PM

*tsk*...just goes to show women are not the only ones with DTS (Dissociative Time Syndrome...a malady I just made up)

Does he ever try to explain why he can't cope?

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM

Although Bill D apologized in his opening post for this thread about mixing the "disparate" concepts of time and space, quite obviously the majority of comments thus far have quite nicely tied the two together.

There's no problem for most of us with knowing what time it is. The problem is being in the right PLACE, at the right TIME, so it really is the combination of the two that's important.

It's worth noting that a few people who've felt the need to have one of Bill D's Terabyte Drives have found them to be somewhat like the spouse/partner with an inadequate sense of "timing." There can be a lot of "stuff" on such large drives, but getting the "stuff" to the right place at the right time begins to be a problem.

The fastest internet connections commonly available may advertise 10 to 40 Mbps transmission rates, but seldom deliver more than a fraction of that. Even good "home grade" LAN connections, 10/100BaseT or USB2 don't brag about much over 100 Mbps rates, and commonly deliver a tenth of that by the time the message negotiation gets poked into the conversation.

With 1 TeraBYTE of storage (marked down 10% for overhead) and a real I/O speed of even 100 Mbit/sec (~6 MBYTE/sec - maybe), it looks like it would take a couple of months to move a drive full of "stuff," at actual speeds attainable. That's not much problem when you're browsing around saving "stuff," but how about when the drive starts making funny noises and you need to get it (quickly?) to another storage space.

Any of our friends who actually get one of these monsters can obviously fill ALL THE TIME THEY HAVE while waiting for their "other person," doing backups - - - of all that "stuff." If there's any "wasted time" left over, they can try to figure out how to keep track of which backup has the "stuff" they might need in a hurry, or even just "where the $#!@#$ is it" on that big drive.

The obvious solution for the problem of the HD that's so wonderful it's unusable is - - - buy at least two, and RAID/Mirror them so they back up each other.

Perhaps the problem of the friend who's too complex for our plans, predictions, and scheduling is to have another friend we can call up and pass the time with while we wait. ... and wait ... and ...

(#@$*#! friend's not home where (s)he's supposed to be ....)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: autolycus
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 12:59 PM

When I'm making an arrangement to meet,I always go for "from 7 to 7.15"-type arrangements. That way,both/all can arrive without being early or late.

   if you give a time,people can technically be only early or late.

   Also,experience helps. If you know the person is always late ...............need I finish that? Yes. ..........then factor in their tendency. If they're always 30 mins late,make the arrangement 30 mins earlier, and so on.







       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 01:10 PM

I say again that the problem is that his "time" is not your "time" or Bill's "time". In the world of the psyche, all time is a function of attention, and it passes as quickly as actions taken in the attention are completed. As anyone knows who daydreams, this means that an hour of "real" time can pass while a single quick action (such as reorganizing the Western hemisphere) is accomplished in personal time. Thus these assertions about how long one will be about something are relatively meaningless to those still strong-minded enough not to be bamboozled into the hypnotic common agreement of so-called "real" time. The truth is, for such people, that subjective time is ten times as real as anything going on in mutual-time, which is the source of the problem.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:45 PM

Wasn't it Cyril Northcote Parkinson who said that a task expands to fill the time available for it?

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 07:56 PM

"Does 'that person' who manages to rationalize being 35 minutes later than agreed on as 'only' 20 minutes also thereby manage to absolve herself of being late at all by being pleased at even LEAVING by 3:30?" Bill D

Sadly, Bill, that question does not even occur to them. *G*

Speaking of 'subjective' time, I have noticed that I am far more unforgiving on some occasions. When someone wants to see an apartment that has come up for rent and we agree to meet at the place at 3:30, say, if that person is not there by 3:37 I'm out of there.

My thinking is that as soon as a person is two minutes late, you don't know if they are coming at all. (That is NOT true of people who have established a tradition. *G*)

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bert
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:14 PM

How come nobody has yet said

"If you've got the space, I've got the time"

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Peace
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:16 PM

I'll be back in two minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Feb 07 - 11:45 PM

As usual, John makes some good points....one of the reasons I had the thought to include the TERAbyte drive in my post, is that I had managed in a couple of years to begin to strain a 147 GIGAbyte drive with songs, videos, craft pictures, wildlife pictures, 5 years of Getaway pictures,.....and of course, all the programs I collect (with their downloaded .zips & .exes)

So...having found an Iomega external 250 Gig drive AND gotten a fast CD/DVD burner, I resolved to put a bunch of that crap fine data into long-term storage!.....well....it seems that not only does it take quite awhile to move huge amounts of data, in order to burn CDs & DVDs, one needs some unfettered cache room just to get started!
So, here I am, having to MOVE lots of data over to the Iomega in order to have room on the C: drive to begin burning....fine...good plan. In a couple of hours, I identified and moved 5-6 Gigs.....progress!

Then, I noted on another thread up ^ there that John recommended the PC 'cleanup' routine...which I had never tried. Ah, HA! Another way to recover space! Off we go! ummm...ok....choose a few parameters, like 'temp files'...great. GO!.....I get a little window that says "compressing old files"...looks good. Twenty minutes later, I see 1 (one) little blue dot indicating progress. hmmmmm....1½ hrs. later, I see 5 little dots, out of maybe 30-40 are now blue. I see that this is NOT gonna be quick. Hit 'cancel'.....tomorrow, I will look at that again and see if I accidently told it to prime & paint each old file before 'compressing it.

So, indeed...Time & Space are quite intertwined.....it's gonna take me LOTS of time to recover all my space.

Moral? Do this stuff regularly! And start early! And take the TIME to learn how SPACE is handled on your computer, or you will be sitting like me, wondering how you managed to push it to the limits.

It feels like moving snow in upper New York state right now....it's hard to find anyplace not already piled high with snow to move it to!

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 04:16 AM

Bill D.

A very few years ago, maybe 2 or 3, when the notion that TB drives were rapidly approaching, a quite knowledgeable "techie" predicted that:

1. A TB drive would be sufficient for almost anyone to save virtually everything (s)he thought, read, heard, or thought might someday be interesting to read, think about, etc.

2. Once everyone had the ability to save everything, no one would really need to save much of anything, since everything would already be saved by someone else and could be quickly accessed by anyone.

          ... ... ... if someone could just figure out how to keep track of where all it all is.

The keeping track ain't happened yet.

Examining one's storage space to find the right bit of information and get it in front of one's self at the time when it's wanted is much like the problem of getting the right persons in the right place at the right time. The method(s) that work for one person often are just "not quite right" for another person. Quite often, in both cases, there just isn't a right way that works to the equal satisfaction of all involved. Sometimes the best available isn't completely satisfying to any of us.

Sometimes, despite all our accomodations to the limits of our systems, and our ability to find exactly the right stuff, we have to settle for what we can get and be glad we can get anything at all out of the immense theoretically available resources that we know are there.

Sometimes, despite all our accomodations to the "limitations" of our temporally challenged friends, we just have to forget the schedule and settle for getting them "there" at all. It helps to overlook the "failures" (experimental errors) and enjoy the (successful?) accomplishment of having their company for the time remaining.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 08:46 AM

I wish I had the time to understand what you guys are taking up lots of space talking about....

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:27 AM

Does any of this discussion apply to closets? I would swear that when we moved into this apartment ten years ago I had designed enough storeage space for a small army. Now thye closets are filled, the livingroom is inaccessible (filled with boxes of stuff) and the basement is packed with other boxes up to the floor joists. I'm not even sure if much of this stuff is even ours! Are you missing a couple of boxes of yours?

My private theory is called "The Perversity of Inanimate Objects." It's a known fact in our household that the contents of the boxes shift randomly with time, irregardless of Planck's so-called constant.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 12:22 PM

...I think a lot of it is a woman thing, my wife is always religiously half an hour late, I could set my watch by her!

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM

Charley..30 years ago, I moved from Wichita, KS to Maryland with a suitcase and a box....then I went home for 'a few things'...then I got married....then my mother died, and I 'went back to sort her stuff' and brought some things back....then my wife's mother died and we acquired some more, all the while adding our OWN things. Then I began woodworking and needed 2 basement rooms devoted to a shop...and any 'extra' space is filled with tables and stuff for doing craft shows......There is NO closet that is not full; no table that doesn't have things under it; no bare, flat surfaces. A downstairs shower stall I used to use is packed high with boxes ....yeah, I do know the feeling.

Now....do I have either the energy or the ambition to sort and toss before I have to leave it to my son? He might be less apt to save it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 05:13 PM

"contents of the boxes shift randomly with time, irregardless of Planck's so-called constant."

A discussion with Mr Schroedinger may prove enlightening. I hear he's still waiting for his cat to come back in the house....

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 06:55 PM

Schroedinger's cat found "The Door Into Summer" Schroedinger will have to assume his cat is with Godot.

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:40 PM

The Perversity of Inanimate Objects was originally developed from one specific instance, well known to all of us. If you put a number of pairs of sock in a washing machine, you do not get whole pairs out, due to their random movements between machines.

The final proof of this was when a washing machine was left fully plumbed in etc, and tied to the roof, with the door open and hanging down, so any socks that did appear there fell out onto the floor below, whilst there were no socks in it the rest of the time to vanish. The Nobel Committee is currently deciding which category this best fits under...

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Kaleea
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 07:51 PM

My neice, whom I live with, is a chronically chronologically challenged personage, as are her mother AND father. I, however, am prompt. I have found a way to assist my neice with her disability which affects me, since we share my car. It's a relativly simple mathematical formula derived in a completely logically fashion!
One merely uses the age of the chronically chronologically challenged person, mulitplied by the thickness of their skull minus the number of minutes which it takes to drill through said skull squared, dividing by the amount of space which the car requires on the freeway plus the percentage of time ( in tenths of a second) by which the chronically chronologically challenged personage underestimates their measure of time, factoring the average number of minutes it takes to drive through Jack in the Box plus the number of minutes (in tenths of a second) it takes to complain about today's blunder by President dubblepew aka "the deecider," multiplied by the total number of hypnotism sessions she has had in order to avail herself of negative habits, which, of course, results in the number: 47.9. Then, I simply inform my neice that the event takes place 47.9 minutes earlier than it actually does.
What could be easier?

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:03 PM

I am amazed, Kaleea..I use the same formula, except we have no Jack-in-the-Boxes here, so I substitute McDonalds, which requires adjusting for slow-downs caused by different digestion coefficients.

Funny...it still comes out 47.9! I wonder if this is a universal constant, like Planck's?

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Joe_F
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:30 PM

Vunnahabhain: My understanding is that the classic test of IPOIO was made with a carefully symmetrized toast-flipping machine to see if the toast always landed butter side down. It did not, but the probability of doing so was found to be a well-defined function of the value of the underlying surface. By causing the toast to land on an original Picasso drawing or a rare Persian rug, the probability could be raised to 87%.

As to the propriety of considering space & time in the same thread, that is clear in view of the researches of Einstein & Minkowski, who showed that they are as intimately connected as the dimensions of space are with each other. (And why *three*? I once heard Julian Schwinger drop a hint, which IIRC was that three was the maximal number of mutually anticommuting 2-by-2 matrices & hence the number of independent ways a spin could point.)

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 12:19 AM

We arrived in San Diego with all we owned stuffed into a wee black Volvo 122S. That was 193. Today, I would pity the person who had to relocate our stuff even though we often go on throwing-away sprees. We have a four-bedroom house almost fully furnished with multiple offices and all the usual paraphernalia. If I ever have to move from here, I am farming the job out to six 20-year-olds with weight-lifter physiques.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: autolycus
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 05:53 AM

1. There are people here in the UK who have taken to renting storage units where they put most of their stuff. So their homes are pretty clutter-free !!! And they go on buying stuff,most of which goes into storage !! And some of them seem to prefer their storage areas which tend to be wonderfully quiet. But they haven't gone as far as move into their storage areas !!

   (Which all reminds me of what we do with a lot of gold. We dig it out of the ground,take it to places like Fort Knox,and put back in the ground there.

   (Now why would aliens want to visit nuts like us?)


   2. There are loads of books and courses on the market to help us all de-clutter.


   3. Eugene Ionesco wrote a prescient play (The Chairs,I think.Written 1952) where,at the start,we find two people in a room. Progressively,they bring more and more chairs into the room until by the end they can't move for stuff.






      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Time...and Space
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM

so, Amos...who WAS Emperor in 193? I didn't know Volvo was in production back then.