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BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?

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The Length 26 Feb 07 - 03:56 PM
Bobert 26 Feb 07 - 04:03 PM
Bill D 26 Feb 07 - 04:12 PM
Peace 26 Feb 07 - 04:15 PM
Peace 26 Feb 07 - 04:18 PM
Bill D 26 Feb 07 - 04:25 PM
Peace 26 Feb 07 - 04:42 PM
autolycus 26 Feb 07 - 05:43 PM
bubblyrat 26 Feb 07 - 05:57 PM
Peace 26 Feb 07 - 06:06 PM
John O'L 26 Feb 07 - 06:20 PM
robomatic 26 Feb 07 - 06:32 PM
Bobert 26 Feb 07 - 06:33 PM
bubblyrat 26 Feb 07 - 07:01 PM
Peace 26 Feb 07 - 07:03 PM
The Length 26 Feb 07 - 07:04 PM
bobad 26 Feb 07 - 07:19 PM
The Length 26 Feb 07 - 07:25 PM
Bobert 26 Feb 07 - 07:54 PM
The Length 26 Feb 07 - 08:03 PM
Wolfgang 27 Feb 07 - 06:53 AM
Bunnahabhain 27 Feb 07 - 08:35 AM
Bobert 27 Feb 07 - 10:18 AM
Wolfgang 27 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM
Bobert 27 Feb 07 - 11:50 AM
dianavan 27 Feb 07 - 12:37 PM
The Length 27 Feb 07 - 03:02 PM
dianavan 27 Feb 07 - 11:52 PM
GUEST,Dickey 28 Feb 07 - 12:19 AM
Jim Lad 28 Feb 07 - 12:34 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 28 Feb 07 - 05:45 AM
Donuel 28 Feb 07 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 28 Feb 07 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Dickey 28 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM
The Length 28 Feb 07 - 12:57 PM
Bobert 28 Feb 07 - 05:44 PM
GUEST,Dickey 28 Feb 07 - 09:49 PM
Peace 28 Feb 07 - 11:46 PM
dianavan 01 Mar 07 - 12:45 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Mar 07 - 09:17 AM
GUEST 01 Mar 07 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Dickey 01 Mar 07 - 03:37 PM
Bobert 01 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,Dickey 02 Mar 07 - 01:24 AM
GUEST,Dickey 03 Mar 07 - 09:57 AM
Bobert 03 Mar 07 - 12:33 PM
Bobert 03 Mar 07 - 07:44 PM
GUEST,Dickey 03 Mar 07 - 09:15 PM
Peace 03 Mar 07 - 09:26 PM
Bobert 03 Mar 07 - 09:41 PM

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Subject: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: The Length
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:56 PM

Do the Green Party or Friends of the Earth attend rallies in their cars or buses polluting the atmosphere ?

Do Animal Rights protesters not accept medication if it was tested on animals ?

Are anti-Smoking groups willing to pay 8 pence extra a day if the government ban the sale of cigarettes ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:03 PM

Yes, we Greens do drive cars...

Consult yer local PETA chapter for answer to question 2...

Given the the costs to society from lost production from the effects of smokin' from health problems and cost thereof no one would have to pay 8 cents a day if no one smoked... Quite the opposite... My insurance premiums are higher because of the added health costs that smokers dump in insurance companies... My taxes are higher for the same reason...


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:12 PM

Do folks who don't have opinions of their own start threads with rhetorical questions?

(The answers to ALL such questions is "sometimes".)


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:15 PM

That prompts an interesting aside--which I think this thread deserves.

"(The answers to ALL such questions is "sometimes".)"

Is it always sometimes, or sometimes sometimes? (OK. So some of the 1960s has stayed with me, but give it to me straight, doctor, I can TAKE it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:18 PM

And not having closed that parenthesis--or should it be those parentheses, and if it is those parentheses, then why is there only one?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:25 PM

Logically speaking, it is 'always sometimes'. "Sometimes sometimes" would be a tautology.

Deponent messeth not with the vagaries of parentheses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:42 PM

tautology: future preterite of the verb 'to taught'

Deponeth: code for a bus locker in Amsterdam

messeth: if you dont hit the bullseye, you messeth

vagaries: private parts

Bill, it's taken you years, but I'm finally getting the hang of this stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 05:43 PM

Do conservatives and patriots stick to buying stuff made in their own country?






      Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 05:57 PM

The only people who are truly "Green " are the Amish, and others like them. Everyone else is just a hypocrite. I will take that back if the Greens de-commission Rainbow Warrior,or whatever their current warship is called, & start using a sailing ship ( with no auxiliary engine ) !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:06 PM

Rainbow Warrior: Greenpeace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: John O'L
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:20 PM

If you're going to listen to anyone's advice, the most reliable advisor will be a hypocrite. At least you can be sure they know what the're talking about, you can be reasonable certain they are being fair dinkum with you.

The pedantically(?) correct always make me uneasy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:32 PM

There are several 'green' vehicles which are being developed to godspeed the ecology:

Hybrid Conestoga: Not only has a sail, but a windmill and a generator. The windmill charges a battery. If you are becalmed or unable to 'tack', you hook the battery up to turn the mill and generate wind to direct into the sail.

Solar Sells!: Any kind of sun at all will charge this baby. comes with direct drive DC motors which move as long as there's power, but recover the power as long as they are moving.

Hydropower: A garden hose fills a tank of water above the car. Water can drive vehicle off compressed air in the tank, when the air is gone, water can drop past driver wheel. If you do not have far to drive, you can grind cornmeal as you go!

Balloon power reaction engine: Fill a large balloon with compressed air. Point nozzle to the rear and valve open. For more power, use compressed hydrogen and a match...Has the advantage that pretty much any gas can be vented, also expired fire extinguishers and surplus JATO units from the army-navy.

In theoretical development: Vehicle motion through tidal forces. So far we can only get the vehicle to move with the tides (in theory)More to come...


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:33 PM

What Peace said, rat-ster...

Green Party and Greenpeace ain't the same organization...

And no axillery engine??? I know my jibs from my mains and that is dumb... There are many ports that just cannot be navigatted by sail power only... Especially where you have a narrow and busy channel...

But nevermind that... I know you were just tryin' to have some fun pickin' on folks who are out there puttin' it on the line for their pro-human, pro-earth values... Why you think that's okay is way beyond me but, hey, I respect yer right to make a fool of yerself as long as no one, other than you, gets hurt...


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:01 PM

If they really had pro-human,pro-Earth values ,they"d be doing a lot more for the planet than they are now,and in a less polluting way !!
And whilst you may well know your jibs from your mains,I submit that your nautical history is somewhat lacking !! For hundreds of years, quite large ships,like Lord Nelson"s HMS Victory,or USS Constitution, were able to work in and out of restricted harbours with narrow channels very successfully,without the aid of auxiliary engines or tugs.-- Of course, very few people could do that today,as the skill has been lost----so let the Greens, or Greenpeace, or the jolly Green giant,or whoever thinks that their mad policies will change the world,carry on driving their cars,flying to conferences, or steaming around the oceans in their mechanically inefficient diesel-powered ships until Doomsday !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:03 PM

You seem to have lots of pent-up energy. What the hell do you DO with it all?


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: The Length
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:04 PM

20 Cigarettes in the UK cost 17 pence to produce. Over the counter you pay up to £5.20. The balance is government taxation. If smokers in UK require hospitalization due to smoking related illnesses think they paid for their bed Bob, don't you ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:19 PM

""Tobacco not only kills people, it also saps national treasuries," says the World Health Organisation.

It believes that the cost of smoking-related health care far outweighs the other financial benefits.

Indeed, the World Bank says tobacco actually results in a global net loss of US $200bn per year. About one third of these losses are suffered in the developing world. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/459157.stm


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: The Length
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:25 PM

Right bob what about the lard arses we see walking around our streets every day, what's your views on them ? Just "big happy personalities".Any idea what the cost the health service ? please be honest in your reply about what the government creams off smokers per year. It no way falls short of treating smoking related conditions.
Do you drive an electric car ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 07:54 PM

Well, yeah, rat-ster... But when these great sailin' ships were out an' about the high seas there really weren't too many other folks out there... Unfotunately, tyhese are different times and channels leadin' into major ports are clogged with traffic an' as much as I hate it, sometimes yer coming into port with a dozen folks in front of you and another dozen behinst you and as many folks in a 100 foot channel going out... That, my friend, is reality of sailin' these days...

But I agree with you all the way that mnakind, myself included, can and needs to do more to to respect mankind and the planet... Yeah, we drive fuel efficent vehicles, we farm organic, we recycle, we use as little electricity as we can but there's always more we can do... My goal for '08 is wind power... I'm allrady bookmarking websites...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: The Length
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 08:03 PM

Well shows you are a man of your word, respect is given


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:53 AM

My insurance premiums are higher because of the added health costs that smokers dump in insurance companies (Bobert)

That's simply not true. Smokers are cheaper for the insurance companies because they die (on the average) at a younger age without all these money consuming diseases of old age.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 08:35 AM

I tried to say that last night, Wolfgang. It appears my post got lost somewhere...

Many of people round here seem to mis-understand the viewpoint of the Various Green Parties.
They generally accept that, for example, people will want to use cars. The Greens want to see us on public transport where it is practical, and if we have to drive, in a small car, doing 50+ Miles to the Gallon, and sharing it if possible.

It's not telling people to put on a hair shirt, it's telling them to put on a shirt if they're cold, not turn up the heating!


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:18 AM

Health insurance, Wolfy, health ionsurance... That's the real bite in the arse... Over $800 a mont fir me and the P-Vine and that's with a $2000 deductible for each of us...

A lung cancer patient will use up well over $100,000 in uinsurance and depending on how long they survive upwards of a half a milllion buck$...

This is where we non smokers are subsidizing the smokers... Yeah, they may pay more but in the big sceme of things they draw more money outta the pool... That's the way insurance works in general... The lower risk folks end up carrying the higher risk folks on their backs...

Now for your argument that the healthy people end up dieing of money consuming deseases of old age, that isn't true... Most people die of old age and not of money consuming desaeses... That is the fact... And most people pay into medigap policies up until they die of old age meaning that healthy people who event5ually die of old age continue to pay to cover higher risk folks right up until their deaths...

Contact the American Cancer Society and they will be nore than happy to furnish you with plenty of stuff that will debunk the common misunderstanding about the costs of lung cancer to our country... And it goes well beyond just medical costs alone...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM

Most studies just calculate the costs of treating a disease. This way of calculating cannot find anything else but higher costs by smoking.

Studies calculating all the positive and negative costs (dying at an age when most people are still healthy) often come to different conclusions.

government expenditure and health promotion goals often conflict so that, paradoxically, government may be best able to protect its financial health by promoting lifestyles that lead to reduced longevity.
is how Australian doctors have described this paradox which is often not understood.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:50 AM

Well, yeah... From a purely economical aspect, governments would love to see every drop dead the day after they retire... No argument there, at all...

But folks such as the good folks at the American Cancer Society have a different perspective that isn't based on the perfect model of not only the gov't but also employers of diein' either on the assmebly line or the day after retiring...


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:37 PM

length - Your post shows that you have never seriously considered doing your part to reduce pollution. You want to diss others to justify your own inaction.

A bus is a perfectly acceptable form of transportation since it transports many more people than a single occupancy vehicle. Public transportation is encouraged as a practical solution to inner city congestion and pollution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: The Length
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 03:02 PM

Not the buses I drive behind ! There was a sunflower seed eater on our local television news on Monday evening and he went on and on about the government putting up road tax and raising the duty on petrol and diesel and having a dig at drivers of fourwheel drives.
Later a reporter exposed him for driving to a demo all alone and passing the homes of six other scroungers and didn't stick them in the back seat. By the way, his 1985 Astra doesn't run on leadfree petrol. Opps !!!!!!!!

Enjoy your home made cereal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:52 PM

Get off on your sugar pops.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:19 AM

Bobert can move to Canada. They take anybody.

How was that per capita poverty rate in the US figured Bobert?


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:34 AM

Not convinced about the connection between cigarette smoking and lung cancer. That would demand a great leap of faith. Faith in a system which has aggressively raised funds for as long as I can remember and has made not nearly the progress that it should.
Seems too convenient, after all this time to just carry on blaming smokers and never have to answer for their own poor performance in a field that continues to make a lot of people wealthy.
Time the researchers were paid for results.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 05:45 AM

"A bus is a perfectly acceptable form of transportation since it transports many more people than a single occupancy vehicle. Public transportation is encouraged as a practical solution to inner city congestion and pollution."

I totally agree with all of this. Trouble is that the bus I travelled on yesterday was not very nice. The aisles were knee deep in litter, most of the seats looked like they'd been vomitted on (or soaked with other forms of human bodily fluid which had then been allowed to dry on) and some cretin at the back insisted on serenading us all with rap 'music' played over his mobile phone. Sometimes I catch myself hoping that the threatened eco-catastrophe comes sooner rather than later!


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:19 AM

Boy Oh boy am I ever in agreement with the Length (thread starter)

Forget climate change, forget extinctions, forget rising oceans, forget Gulf stream mutations FORGET WIERD STORMS... What is really important is to attack everyone who want to do something about it. Don't these people know there is no such thing as global warming or record CO2 levels, it is only a normal solar cycle we have yet to fully understand.

WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT is to denigrate, intimidate, castigate and besmearch anyone who dares become a spokesperson for so called global warming. These people act as if the enviorment belongs to them. Well it doesn't. It belongs to the big boys on Wall street and hedge fund owners who keep our world chugging along with petroleum by the tanker full.

We should go to great "lengths" to smear all enviormentalist whackos as hypocrits, liars and gold diggers.

If they use electricity - they should shut up or face the consequences of our intelligent design, family value, pro war wrath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 10:31 AM

The trouble with a worthy cause, like environmentalism, is that 'Holy Joes' have a tendency to jump on the bandwagon. People, who 10 years ago knew nothing about the environment (and probably still don't) are now pontificating about what we should all eat, drink, drive etc. It's this smug pontificating that gives people like 'Length' an opening because he/she is too stupid and ignorant to tell the difference between a 'Holier-than-thou-preacher' and someone who knows what they're talking about.

I do hope that the eco-catastrophe, when it comes (and it surely will), will get both the 'Holy Joes' and 'Length' as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM

"It belongs to the big boys on Wall street and hedge fund owners who keep our world chugging along with petroleum by the tanker full."

I don't see how reduced energy consumption will hurt wall street at all. In fact it gives it a boost when the price of oil goes down.

Weather global warming exists or not, it behooves all of us to use compact flourescents, drive less, drive more fuel efficient vehicles, recycle, turn the heat down and the AC up etc. It is not only good for the environment, it is good for our pocketbooks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: The Length
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 12:57 PM

Relly admired you for making that trip to the bottle bank Shimrod. Clearly someone doing their bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 05:44 PM

Well, Dickey, 1st of all, if I leave the US I think it will be for Austraila... I hate snow...

Second, if yer curious how per capita poverty you might want to contact yer representative or someone at the Labor Department... It's prolly a very complicated formula... Alll I know is that threshold must be very low 'cause ain't no familee of f gonna make it on $12,000 a year 'er whatever it is now...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 09:49 PM

I have no Idea of who to ask Bobert, that's why I am asking you.

Just what is that poverty line now?

The poverty rate in the United States is one of the highest among the post-industrialized developed world. It is, however, important to note that America's poor most commonly have adequate food, clothing and shelter. For example, of those beneath the federal poverty, 46% of them own their own home with an average of three bedrooms. source

The number of people below the poverty line in the UK is higher, 17% vs 12%. How many if them have their own 3 bedroom house?

AN OVERVIEW OF WELFARE SPENDING

Official poverty measurements also overlook facts about the daily lives of poor families. Robert Rector says that America's poor do not live lavishly, but few households are destitute. The average "poor" American lives in a larger house or apartment, is more likely to own a car and is more likely to have basic amenities such as an indoor toilet than the average resident of Western Europe.

    * 53 percent of poor households have air conditioning.

    * 91 percent own a color TV and 29 percent own two or more.

    * 64 percent own a car and 14 percent own two or more.

    * 56 percent own a microwave oven.

    * 40 percent own their home, with 71,000 owning homes worth more than $300,000.

Better Off Than Europeans, Japanese
The average "poor" American lives in a larger house or apartment than does the average West European (This is the average West European, not poor West Europeans). Poor Americans eat far more meat, are more likely to own cars and dishwashers, and are more likely to have basic modern amenities such as indoor toilets than is the general West European population.

"Poor" Americans consume three times as much meat each year and are 40 percent more likely to own a car than the average Japanese. And the average Japanese is 22 times more likely to live without an indoor flush toilet than is a poor American.

The Census Bureau counts as "poor" anyone with "cash income" less than the official poverty threshold, which was $12,675 for a family of four in 1989. The Census completely disregards assets owned by the "poor," and does not even count much of what, in fact, is income. This is clear from the Census's own data: low income persons spend $1.94 for every $1.00 in "income" reported by the Census. If this is true, then the poor somehow are getting $0.94 in additional income above every $1.00 counted by the Census. Indeed, the gap between spending and the Census's count of the income of the "poor" has grown larger year by year till, now, the Census measurement of the income of poor persons no longer has any bearing on economic reality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 11:46 PM

"Bobert can move to Canada. They take anybody."

You seem to think that is a bad thing, Dickey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 12:45 AM

"This is clear from the Census's own data: low income persons spend $1.94 for every $1.00 in "income" reported by the Census."

They probably have a very hefty credit card debt.

"While in any given year 12 to 14 percent of the population is poor, over a ten-year period 40 percent experience poverty in at least one year because most poor people cycle in and out of poverty; they don't stay poor for long periods, Poverty is something that happens to the working class, not some marginal "other" on the fringes of society." - Micheal Zweig, What's Class Got to do With It, American Society in the Twenty-first Century, 2004

Emphasis on working class.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 09:17 AM

"Relly (sic) admired you for making that trip to the bottle bank Shimrod. Clearly someone doing their bit."

Don't need to take trips to the bottle bank, 'Length' - the local council provides me with a bin.

Anyway, recycling, windmills etc., etc., are only of limited use. What is destroying 'The Planet' (for which read the habitats contemporary species including humans) is the attitude which says that the resources of the earth are infinite and can go on being consumed at an accelerating rate with no consequences. I can't see that that attitude is going to change anytime soon - so, basically, we're f..ked! You might as well go on behaving like a selfish arsehole, 'Length'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:31 AM

I am, unfortunately, a smoker. I recently retire after thity years employment. During that time I missed a total of 22 working days and left over 400 hunfred days in the "sick" bank. I am not bragging but I do believe that many insurance companies, though they charge smokers more, realize that smokers are not the biggest users fo emplyee sick plans. When I was a union negotiator our rates (collectively) were always very high because our bargaining group had a very high percentage of the highest percentage users of sick time..single parent females between the ages of 25 and 40. Go figure. This statistic remained constant with all insurances schemes with whom we negotiated. Smokers were eigth on the list.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:37 PM

Ignoring Billions of Dollars
A key reason that the Census undercounts the financial resources of the "poor" is that, remarkably, it ignores nearly all welfare spending when calculating the "incomes" of persons in poverty. Thus, as far as the Bureau is concerned, billions of dollars in in-kind benefits to poor Americans have no effect on their incomes. Out of $184 billion in welfare spending, the Census counts only $27 billion as income for poor persons. The bulk of the welfare system, including entire programs that provide non-cash aid to the poor, like food stamps, public housing, and Medicaid, is completely ignored in the Census Bureau's calculations of the living standards of the "poor." The missing welfare spending that is excluded from the Census Bureau poverty reports comes to $158 billion, or over $11,120 for every "poor" U.S. household.

The Census Bureau's poverty reports should be replaced by a new survey that counts income and assets accurately. With accurate counting, the number of poor persons would be shown to be only a small fraction of the Census Bureau's current estimate of 31.8 million.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:31 PM

Nah, Dickey...

I believe that there weould be an increse in the poverty levels if everythinh was redefined...

Poverty is a relative term becuase of regional differences in the cost of living... In the D.C. area you have folks makin' twice the income of the pverty line yet when you factor in the #1300 a month minimum for an apartment you find that it takes a greater gross monthly income then is the poverty line for most families of 4...

Here' some simple math...

Gross income to net $1300 is rough ly $1600 a month = $19,200 a year gross... Now this is way over the poverty line yet someone makin' $19,200 a year will have to shell out their entire income just for rent???

Jus' give that some thought...

As fir TV's, etc... They are a dime a dozen... People give perfectly good ones away so it's no wonder that such a high percentage of people have them... Microwaves??? Same... Cars??? Same...

Oh, how my college Stats 201 teacher was so right when she pointed out that stats can be so grossly manipulated as to prove anything that anyone wants to prove... This was just before she proved that 1 = 2...

So folks who like to throw out a bunch of stats make the red light go off in my head that says "This person uis trying to bamboozle you, Bobert..."

Notice that over the years I have been reluctant to use polls and have only recently accepted the Bush 60% disapproval ratings and that has been because there have been so many polls that seem to indicate that it's somewhere around that...

But the percentage of TV's??? Give me a break...

If you want to talk about poverty, come to D.C. and I'll take you around and let you see for yerselves...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:24 AM

Bobert:

If you don't beleive in stats, why do you bandy them about like evidence of something?

"I'd have to say that the Repubs control about 80% of all media right now... No, the Repub's can't see it that way because they only focus on the 20% that does not put a halo over Bush's head"

"Sure, we may have the best to offer but guess what? 90% of out people either can't afford it or their insurance companies won't pay for it."

"this United States, which boasts all this wealth, hides the "fact" that it also has the highest per capita poverty rate of any western, industrialized developed country"

I notice you are very careful to say Western to avoid including the UK which has 17% VS 12%.

It wasn't until the public opinion polls reached 60% saying the Iraq war was not worth fighting that Russert, the ever political journalist, stepped back from Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:57 AM

Bobert slinks back into the bushes in search of another target for a stink bomb attack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 12:33 PM

No, not really, Dickey...

You'll notice that I'm not quotin' some blog here... All these statements where I've thrown pwercentages into the mix are done as "generalized statements"... You know, like the 80% and the 90% which to almost any casual reader who isn't into just playin' "ah-hah gottcha" would realize weren't actual percentages but a little "poetic license", something that most folk who do a lot of writtin' use from time to time...

If you don't know the difference then maybe youyou are too literal a person which, if that is the case, would make it very difficult for you to appreciate much more than numbers and no words...

Now, as fir yer poverty questions... If you'd like to start a thread about poverty in the US I'll be more than happy to participate in it... It's not a topic that I know nuthin' about seein' as the first half of my working life was with social programs (GED jail house teacher, drug rehab counselor and finally a social worker in the Richmond wlfare department...

But if you do start a thread, please don't confuse the fact that sometimes I don't get right back to ya as "slinkin' off in the bushes"... I still work full time plus have a farm to run and am in the middle of building a new house so, unlike you and other who have the luxary of livin' in fron of yer compudders, I'm a very busy person... Throw dial up into the mix an', hey, sometimes it will take some time fir me get back to ya'...

Lastly, the 60% disapproval rate, agian isn't exactly 60% in all polls... It's 57% in some 62% in others and like all polls, tends to have peeks and valleys... But the bottom line is that Bush isn't a very popular president and I don't hink that can be refuted...

Now I'll "slink back" to the Kabuta and finish gettin' my half mile drive way graded so I can get a big truck full of windows and doors up it on Monday morning...

...slinkin' off...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 07:44 PM

Ahhh, not to mention a fairly busy perfroming schedule...


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:15 PM

Bobert:

Your statement was that the US poverty line is higher than any developed country in the west.

Whom are you quoting and how was it determined?

On the surface it seems like a cheap shot using "facts" that you really don't believe and don't know to be correct but don't mind repeating for the sake of making your own country "look" bad.

Evidently you are not too busy to blurt out some facts without the personal integrity to substantiate them while denying the validity of other's facts with a non fact like "cars and TVs are a dime a dozen". I haven't seen any of those lately.

And I am a literal person. To me, words do mean something. Slogans, jokes, metaphors, rhetoric, exaggerations and fantasy do not impress me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:26 PM

"The number of people below the official poverty thresholds numbered 35.9 million in 2003, or 1.3 million more than in 2002, for a 2003 poverty rate of 12.5 percent. Although up from 2002, this rate is below the average of the 1980s and 1990s.

The poverty rate and number of families in poverty increased from 9.6 percent and 7.2 million in 2002 to 10.0 percent and 7.6 million in 2003. The corresponding numbers for unrelated individuals in poverty in 2003 were 20.4 percent and 9.7 million (not different from 2002).

As defined by the Office of Management and Budget and updated for inflation using the Consumer Price Index, the average poverty threshold for a family of four in 2003 was $18,810; for a family of three, $14,680; for a family of two, $12,015; and for unrelated individuals, $9,393."

Those figures are from 2004. This site is the source.


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Subject: RE: BS: Does the Green Party drive cars ?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:41 PM

Like I said, Dickey, you want to talk poverty then start another thread an' I'll find it...

...BTW, there's alot about poverty that ain't in Statistics 201...

... so start the thread, take yer best shot at settin' the bar an' I'll be along in due time...

Meanwhile, if all you want to do is highjack someone elses thread then leave me out...


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