BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function

Subject: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 08:38 PM

I have a number of friends and acquaintances for whom the intimacy they once shared with their partners has all but vanished. In some cases it is even totally absent from the relationship. It isn't always the male partner (talking about heterosexual unions here, by the way) who seems to lose interest; but that does seem to be the more prevalent complaint that I have encountered. Certainly, this is a serious issue. The people who have discussed this with me are feeling extremely alienated and deprived. They cannot fathom what it is that might have brought this problem to manifest itself in their relationships. I am told that erectility problems are not the issue among these couples. It is more a matter of lack of desire.

In most instances the reduction in intimacy has diminished rather sharply – not totally of a sudden; but in just a matter of weeks things went from the usual level of activity to little or none. Sometimes, after a frank discussion, there has been a brief attempt at a reprieve; but then things reverted to the lower level of intimacy again.

Out of all these couples, I am happy to report that one was able to find and correct the problem to some degree. It came to light that one of the partners was using a medication for which diminished sex drive is a known side effect. Once this was addressed and a different medication was implemented, things seemed to improve for a time. Unfortunately, the change to the new medication seemed only to help for a couple of months and then the situation returned to its former state. Trying a different medication seems to be the next step.

I have been down this road. It was not a medication issue or an erectile problem. It was a lack of desire brought on by a combination of stresses. In my case it was due to the impact of exhaustion from working multiple jobs as well as the stresses of dealing with an unappreciative partner. Although we tried to work through the latter issue, the multiple jobs continued to take their toll in the form of a lack of energy as well as the logistical problems they created in terms of opportunity. After many years of this, the situation deteriorated toward the eventual divorce.

We were lucky in that at least we could readily identify the causes. Unfortunately, we were financially unable to eliminate one of them at all and in a way, it created other ones. Although it may be a possibility that similar stressors might be responsible in varying degrees for some of the dysfunction these friends are experiencing, they do not appear to be the main culprits.

I am not a clinician. I am just a friend. I find myself at a loss as to what to tell these people. Some of them are at the end of their tethers, having sought counseling as well as having attempted to refresh their relationships in various ways. And so I'm asking if you might have any suggestions for ways to renew this vital part of their lives.

Thanks!

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:07 PM

as you note...be careful of medications..I have tried 4 different 'anti-depression' drugs, and all they did was make me thirsty and _flat.

That being said, there are variations in hormone levels in people as they age or for other reasons...and stress WILL create confusion about what is wanted/needed. The most impostant sexual organ is the brain, and it can be jaded, tired, distracted...etc....

What to DO? Well, I once worked in an 'adult book store', and met many folks who selectively used eroticia to stimulate lost creativity. (yes, that means 'porn', but I hate the negative connotations)

But the important thing is perhaps to get professional help, if the problem is ongoing and of long standing. So many little things could be adding up to one situation, and once a bad habit starts, the cycle gets out of hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:09 PM

oh, dear! and that post put this thread right above "up and coming"

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Peace
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:16 PM

LOL. The thing Bill said about meds and stress is too true. Sexuality is a mental process. Sex is both mental and physical. IMO. couples go through periods when sex isn't high on the agenda for one reason or another. However, the loss of the desire for sex could be the result of other issues, unrelated to the individuals involved. If the loss is one sided, then there is a problem. If it's two sided, no problem. Some anti-depressant medication can cause function loss in part or in total. Both people should be in with the doctor when the decision is being made. There are other issues that have to be considered. Will both parties be able to live with the new status quo? Is it age related? Time of life? Heavy topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: kendall
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:21 PM

Try Wellbutrin. No sexual side effects.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Tinker
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 10:33 PM

Remember that fatigue is an increasing stress factor. the stay up til 1 and get up at 6 routine that was highly functional in youth may just plain be sleep deprevation as the body ages... ( It probably was earlier, but youth overroad it...)


Have fun together, laugh, take a look and see if the enjoyment of each other is still in place before you start worrying about the end result. Sometimes you need to take the time and rediscover who you have become. Courting and Wooing have a real place in longterm relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 10:44 PM

Someone told me recently of a quote from Erica Jong--she said she looked at pornography for 10 minutes and wanted to go home to have sex. Then she watched some porn for 20 minutes, and never wanted to have sex again. It's a fine line, making it work without repulsing you or reminding you of the issues that are behind so much pornography these days. Some of it is erotic, a lot of it isn't.

I have heard recent news stories talking about the choices men can make--to take something like Viagra for the incidental times when sex is available and on the agenda. Or take something more general like a testosterone suppliment. It increases libido more generally and allows for some spontaneity. Testosterone also works for women. After my cancer surgery (hysterectomy) I did a lot of research into hormone replacement therapy. It was very clear that replacing estrogen wasn't enough, you also had to replace the testosterone because the ovaries make some of that also. As one of the PBS lecturers (during the membership drive program) said: "if you give a woman estrogen after the surgery, she's physically able to comfortably have sex, but without the testosterone, who cares?" Upon inquiry, a formulary (compounding) pharmacist said that for women, up to about 2mg of methytestosterone is fine, but above that, they complain of the hair growth, etc. I don't know what levels are recommended for men.

For what it's worth.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Janie
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 11:10 PM

Loss of libido is a very common side effect of many of the SSRI antidepressants, and erectile dysfunction is not uncommon. If medically appropriate, our psychiatrists will sometimes prescribe Viagra to treat the erectile dysfunction. Loss of libido is extremely common with women. I do not know if it occurs at the same rate in men or not. Maybe Mark Cohen will check in on this thread and perhaps know about that. I'm sure that many medications used for all kinds of medical conditions may also have sexual side effects.

Loss of libido can also be a SYMPTOM of depression!

And certainly stress, fatique, relationship issues, alone or in any combination, can effect libido and mood.

I make the following general recommendations.

The first thing to try is to reduce stress and fatique by practicing good self-care--getting enough sleep, eating right, exercising or stretching, etc. These are all things we have direct control over and can decide to change. Maybe our particular circumstance prevents doing it all perfectly, but we can always find ways to take somewhat better care of ourselves. And it is a sure bet that when people get stressed good self-care is the first thing to go! Partners can help each other out with this, by taking good care of one another. Simple things like being kind and practicing common courtesy. Helping out a little more with the kids or the chores. Giving foot rubs or non-sexually demanding massages. This can have the added benefit of improving the relationship, which can improve the libido.

The logical next step is for both partners to get medically evaluated to eliminate physical or iatrogenic causes. Both partners should do this instead of just the person who has lost their libido. This empowers joint ownership of the issue, both problem AND solution.

If both partners have done all of the above to no avail, then it is time to consider professional marital counseling or therapy.


Hope this is helpful.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 11:22 PM

Main Entry: iat·ro·gen·ic
Pronunciation: (")I-"a-tr&-'je-nik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Greek iatros physician + English -genic
: induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures
- iat·ro·gen·i·cal·ly /-'je-ni-k(&-)lE/ adverb

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Amos
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 11:54 PM

Actually, I don't think inadvertent causation is inherent in the definition -- but we can hope it applies.

The literal meaning is "generated by the healer".

A

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 12:54 AM

More to the subject, I have a suspicion that a significant ratio of sexual dysfunction is hanging on an emotional barrier and a communication breakdown. In the absence of open emoitonal connection, I can't see why physical sexual congress would have much meaning or attraction except at the basest level.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: SueB
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 03:45 AM

Strangely enough, I was just reading an article that seems relevant to this discussion, about pheromones - to quote a small piece of it,

""This is a biological signal to a man that suggests that this woman can reproduce and he responds with romantic behavior related to securing intimate relations with her," says study author Norma McCoy, a psychology professor at San Francisco State University, in a news release. "This is not a smell one can detect, neither the man nor the woman is aware of it, but it is very powerful. The chemical appears to influence a man's desire to have sexual intercourse.""


If the men you were talking about see the problem being one of desire rather than of ability, I wonder if it's possible that their partners are not producing as much of those "come hither" pheromones as they used to, for whatever reason - age, stress, whatever. It
would take about a hundred bucks to find out - that's what they want for synthetic pheromones which women can add to their perfume at the Athena Institute website - they apparently have synthetic pheromones for men which can be added to aftershave, if the lack of desire rests with the female partner.

Interesting, huh? Possibly it's total and utter hooey, but what if it was a very cheap and painless way to avoid hours and hours of couples counseling leading to a shitty divorce?

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: freda underhill
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 07:08 AM

i think a lot of it has to do with power balances within a relationship. for men, i think they need to feel manly to have sex.

and women need to feel beautiful, relaxed & open.

sometimes people want to protect themselves - one rejection can feel painful, while the other person may be thinking about sleep.

people need to feel empowered by a relationship, not disempoewered, emotionally or politically or whatever. if one party feels disempowered, sex can be an invasive experience.

personally i think the best way to keep a relationship going is to keep the physical part happening too. once it drops off, its hard to get excited again.

age has nothing to do with it i think. its all mental.

fred

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Janie
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 08:00 AM

Allan--I wouldn't a used a $2.00 word 'cepten I got cornfused and thought I was posting to the bad writing thread. Besides, pompous is my middle name!

XXOO,

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:31 AM

A slight aside but this came up in conversation recently: given how low on the scale sex eventually ranks in importance in a marriage, isn't it ironic that same sex marriages create such an uproar?


On the topic: is it loss of libido or boredom with the same old thing? Just a thought. Is it also a reduced comfort level with one's own body as time and gravity take their toll?

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,Grateful reader living like a nun
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:39 AM

Please tell me what is one to do when the love is still there after lots of years but one partner has no desire to confront the lack of physical love? The relationship is as open as can be, affairs are no problem but not desired. Toys, talking, and all of the above noted to no avail. Work, stress all problems still no motivation to even try alleviating those. Will it always feel like brother and sister? Glimmers of hope few and far between keep one hoping, but separate bedrooms are a goal to lessen the pain of lack.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:55 AM

I talk to men and women about this problem almost daily. Lots of good advice up there. Also, damage to nerves in the groin area, or chronic pain which affects the legs can contribute in some male's cases. I would say most cases of erectile dysfunction are a combination of emotional and psychological and physical factors.

I've even heard of indivdiuals with extreme touch sensitivity such as those with autistic features having trouble with being pursued. These individuals do better when they can control the touch. Naturally each situation is different and finding causes requires diagnostic skills which one might find in a well-trained sex therapist, urologist, family practitioner, or other mental health provider. Asking the right questions about the problem is very important in determining causality, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:57 AM

...my understanding about the state of extant pheromone research in humans is that they have not yet isolated human sex pheromones well enough to make the ultimate perfume...

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 12:00 PM

...however, I recommend my four favorites; Equipage for men and Red, Liz Claibourne, and Bill Blass for women!!! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,come one, come all
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 12:12 PM

Dear Grateful reader,

Consider moving to the next level. Get yourself a vibrator and practice using it. Wahl makes a particularly nice one with several attachments. Bring your partner into the play. Mutual masterbation is a choice couples can make to stimulate each other by watching the partner do it for him or herself.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,anon.
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 12:20 PM

Ive been with my partner for 3years, we married last summer.
Ilove her deeply, we have much in common, music love of the outdoors, and we can talk about anything, usually we think of the same thing at the same time. Our lovemaking frequency dropped from every night to mostly weekends (so about 3x a week). I would never have thought this
but at one point I was relieved, oh can we just sleep tonight?
I think part of it is hitting 40 and declining hormone levels. My partner is 13yrs younger and is pretty much ready anytime.
but I feel, being tired working long hours does have a lot to do with reduced lovemaking during the week.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 12:36 PM

The subject of toys was mentioned above. I have tried to mention this to most of these friends. The problem seems to be that many people are loath to introduce sex toys into the equation. I really do believe that lots of people still view the use of such things (or going to places where they are sold) is purely for the guys in the raincoats or the women on the street corners. I'll tell you right now that no matter how depressed, distracted or discouraged I was, if my partner came to bed with a handful of Joy Jelly and maybe even a vibrator, she would certainly get my attention(s)!

The problem of having one partner stonewall the other is unfortunately common. Effort toward maintaining a healthy relationship absolutely must be made by both partners. At the end of the day, if no effort is forthcoming by one party, it comes down to an either/or issue. Either both parties make the effort or else recognize that there is no relationship other than an empty, symbiotic one. I lived in such an arrangement for a number of years before recognizing that I deserved something much better. Self preservation won out and as painful as it was, I moved on. That turned out to be one of the very best things I have ever done for myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,Grateful Reader
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 12:48 PM

come one come all - been there, done that, had a lot of fun...tired of just that. finally put a stop to him using his fingers and all to satisfy as what I want is him. i'd be a lot better if we just knew why but it is something he refuses to find out. i know he is trying to work it out in his own way but it's been a long time; mostly i can enjoy what we do have and let it go but then i feel the loss so much it hurts and i lash out with angry words which i know do not help

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 01:01 PM

The lashing out ==>hurt==> negative reinforcement just speeds the decline; ya gotta have the courage and strength to voice your hurt in a way that does not, itself, attack or blame. Or the communication ain't gonna happen. And if the communication doesn't happen, the rest isn't gonna follow. I'm pretty sure those are ineluctable rules.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,come one, come all
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 01:02 PM

Good Vibrations

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,Grateful Reader
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 02:07 PM

amos, i know it is true and have tried. i get silence or statements of "i'm sorry, i'm getting old, or i don't know." we've always had complete and open communication about everything, including sex, until he shut down over this.

come one come all thank you but i couldl've written the book on good vibes. as i said i've had it with toys, self-gratification and so on

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 02:15 PM

Thanks for the responses so far, folks. You are the greatest! Eventually, I'll be printing out copies of the thread to give to some of my friends who are so troubled by this problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,guest rod
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 03:09 PM

guest grateful reader. Have you ever considered taking a lover? Would your partner be upset if you did? It sounds to me like you need to bolster your self esteem, and a good looking young man often does the trick .It worked for my partner when I lost interest in sex a few years back ,made me jealous as hell but I got over it. Women and men have different clocks when it comes to sex, whether for physical or pschological reasons , women often get hornier as they get older. You only live once.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,shycat
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 03:36 PM

mutual masturbation, sex without penetration, touching, tasteing and tippling is the way to keep things up!

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,Been there, too
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 04:05 PM

"Grateful Reader", as I read your first post, my heart went out to you when you asked 'What does one do when one partner has no desire to confront the lack of physical love ?' and when you talked of your 'pain of lack.' There is no lonelier place on this earth than a marriage bed with an invisible, but very tangible wall running down the middle of it. No moment more devastating than when you reach out your arms to hug someone and they stand there, with arms rigidly by their sides. When your eyes try to meet theirs as they walk into the house, but they will look anywhere but in your direction. Especially when those moments start to happen day upon day, night upon night, until you begin to realize that this has now become your normality.

I lived in such a marriage for longer than I should have. I so wanted it to be different, but my husband refused to talk about it at all. Whatever it was, it was something he could not face within himself, and he turned it around towards me, telling me I was dirty, I smelt, and he didn't want to touch my skin. When someone says that to you over and over, even though you know it isn't true, you start to believe it and get drawn into a dark, vicious circle.

You can only try so much. You can only offer love so much. As Allan has said, if one partner refuses to make any effort to communicate, there comes a time, for your own sanity and sense of self-worth, when you have to say to yourself "I deserve something much better."

For anyone reading this who recognizes any stage in this process happening in their marriage, do all you can to talk, talk, talk. As Amos says, dare to express your fears, your sorrows, your losses, with as much love as you can, whichever partner in the equation you are. Be prepared for any, or no, response. Welcome any response, and hopefully build on it. Welcome even a cruel response, like the ones I was given. They helped me to make my choices.

Find someone outside the marriage to talk to about it. If it does come to the time when you feel "I deserve something much better", then leave, knowing you have done everything and more.

That point came for me, after 14 years, when a friend said, quietly and simply, "Why do you stay ?" Nobody has to stay in such a situation. You DO deserve something much better, and the something better IS there for you, but it can take a lot of courage.

Sometimes I wish I could visit my former self, in my former life, just to give myself a hug and say "It's OK, it WILL be alright. You won't have to endure this forever." I have the opportunity now to do that here to anyone reading this, who recognizes themselves in anything I have written here. Wishing you a brighter future, soon, whichever way events unfold.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 04:23 PM

Dear Been There Too,

Tears are rolling down my cheeks as I write this. You expressed what I tried to say so excellently! Whoever and wherever you may be, you are a beautiful person.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,Grateful Reader
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 06:27 PM

Thank you Been There Too. I don't think i will ever reach that point as he treats me so very, very well in all other ways without asking anything of me, in any way. There is still much between us and it was so good when we had that, too.

guest, rod, as I said, affairs are no problem but not what i want. Been there, done that, too, it was fun and we were open about it, with pleasure.

harpgirl may have hit on something. i think he may have a slight case of Asperger and i didn't know a sympton of that could be extreme sensitivity to touch. this is something which has become worse over the years when he is undressed. very, very ticklish at the slightest touch.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 06:48 PM

Grateful Reader,

You can guess at what might be wrong with him until the cows come home. But if he is unwilling to discuss the matter or to investigate counseling, etc., then your efforts, no matter how well intended are in vain. Yes, you are the victim of his problem(s), but the root issues are his. He has to want to work on them. He has to believe that to do so is vital to your relationship. Until he becomes convinced that it is important enough to do something about, you can look forward to the status quo for the rest of your time together. I'm sorry, but those are the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,also there!
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 07:01 PM

Thank you so much to Allan for starting this thread and to all who have posted.
Especially to 'Grateful Reader' and to you 'Been there'.
I am in the exactly the same situation. We don't touch, we don't share intimacy in any form anymore. That has been 3 years and for the 2 previous to that a dwindling interest. Resulting for me in meds for depression and anxiety. I love to be intimate and I touch and hug and kiss as a natural response to people I love and like
We have talked and talked but to no avail. Always the same answer "it isn't you, I love you. it's me"
So here I am with someone I love but I have never been so lonely in my Life!
Like Grateful Reader, we too are best of Friends and He is so good to me in so many other areas of our Life but......I am unhappy!
No meds involed with Him, or illness thank goodness or alcohol, no dysfunction either, just absolutely no desire to be intimate!
What to do next....Lovers...no thanks....a short brief sexual experience isn't the issue, if only that would solve it...... So...Ill keep reading here and hope that maybe something will jump off the screen. After all you cannot act for another when the act has to come from them. You cannot approach because the rejection is just too painful!
Thank you so much again for starting this thread Allan, I am very relieved to know I'm not alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Mar 04 - 07:22 PM

Well gol danged! I wasn't even gonna open this thread fir fear of some porno piccures jumpin' out at me and the P-Vine walkin' in 'bout the same time and me tryin' to explainerate but...

... ahhhh, intercourse ain't a sex life. Too many folks hung up on that one aspect and then lose track of what a real sex life is all about. It's like holdin' hands. It's like remembering the time we... It's like brushin' up aginst yer partner in the kitchen... It's about takin' the time to say, "I love you"... It's about leaving a note fir yer partner, or sending him or her a card in the mail for no reason... It's about checking the oil in yer partner's car... It's about talkin', even when you know what yer partner is gonna say... It's about teasin' an' ticklin' an' jus messin' wid each other... It's about talkin' about the future...

I reckon if yer doing these things then the rest will take care of itself. If it doesn't, well, you still got one heck of a relationship.

And see a doc... It's physical...

And, if yer doing these things and still having problems, fir God's sake, talk with yer pertner...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 04 - 01:42 AM

So here I am with someone I love but I have never been so lonely in my Life!

It sounds a mix of physical and emotional on his part. WebMD "sexual problems in men" search

I have logged off because a related party might read this discussion and I have no desire to hurt feelings. I divorced someone I did and still do love, but the love had changed. The intimacy was gone, it wasn't going to be recovered. It's awfully hard to stay married to someone you no longer wish to be intimate with. We shouldn't have married, we should have stayed friends, but on the other hand, our children are marvelous. Divorce, though difficult at first as might be expected, has enabled us to retain our friendship. Our intimate lives are separate, we don't share information on that, but we discuss most other topics that once would have been discussed during our married life.

Before calling it quits, you both should have thorough physical examinations, and perhaps go through some Imago therapy (do a search for a practitioner in your area--it is based on an old Carl Rogers technique of "mirroring" what the person opposite you is saying).

It may seem counter-intuitive to divorce before a relationship hits rock bottom, but on the other hand, you'll have something left to work with when you come out the other side.

Something to think about.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 04 - 07:03 AM

Been there, done that too and it is so incredibly lonely. Took me many years to get out of it and yes, we did try counselling, both marriage guidance and psycho-sexual and they failed because my ex didn't want to admit there was a problem. We ended up seperating and are now good friends but I wish I'd left a lot sooner, for the sake of my own sanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,The Maiden
Date: 13 Mar 04 - 07:38 AM

Grateful Reader, Been There too, GUEST above and all ... thank you for sharing what you did. If it's any comfort to you, your stories bring back a lot of lousy memories for me too. I'm a catter posting as a GUEST for privacy reasons ....

I was only 24 when I discovered my husband of 6 months either was so terrified of intimacy or so traumatized by whatever sexual abuse he'd suffered at the hands of other men as a teen (I found out that out later :-( ) that once the initial novelty of having a full-time partner wore off, the honeymoon was REALLY over, for good.

The next miserable 5 years were 99.9% sexless. He'd spend his weekends at strip bars taking comfort with hookers, I'd spend mine home alone with the babies, wondering how I could have become so "ugly" to him so soon after the wedding. (It HAD to be all MY "fault", of course, in my way of thinking at the time ...) That I had taken a vow to spend the rest of my earthly existence with him felt like a death sentence, at the ripe old age of 24. It took a LONG time before I was unhappy enough to break that vow and send him packing. But I'm SO glad now that I did!

Today, a couple decades older and wiser (having gone round not quite the same but a couple very similar tracks since), and quite contentedly mate-free for the last several years, I can only say I'm MOST grateful to have finally discovered that Love truly does begin within, after all!

... And those who seek to know Me, know that your seeking and yearning will avail you not, unless you know the Mystery; for if that which you seek you find not within yourself, you will never find it.

The Maiden (All Re-Maid!)

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 13 Mar 04 - 11:27 PM

Guests and all who have shared so far, thank you. I know that this is a difficult topic, one that has resurrected some of my own unpleasant memories. I'm sure the same is true for you and it's not been easy for you to share your experiences here. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:07 AM

Alan C

It too have a friend that has a problem .........

Only joking PAL.

Now I think I will read the thread - you never know when I might need the information........

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:06 AM

Been there, too

Sometimes I wish I could visit my former self, in my former life, just to give myself a hug and say "It's OK, "

You just did twice.
1) By advising those at that point in life, Its called empathy.
2) And let us not deny we are the sum of the baggage we have accumulated, and not the crap we have shed. By leaving the shit behind all you have left is the experience. "You then" informs "you now", and we thank you for that insight.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 07:11 AM

Been there, too

Just a thought but does touching under water change anything?

Add soap?

Baby Oil?

Champagne

silk payjamas?

purely theoretical but I have a vivid imagination. But at the end of it all we are talking mutalality. If the partner don't want to play it is a bit of a hollow suggestion but allow me to daydream a bit more..... don't WAKE ME-UP......

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 11:52 AM

Pheromones?

Now here's an observation that may have some relevance

You know that smell you detect in old peoples homes? Well I started to percieve it in the bedroom and though it did not put me off I recognised it for what it was. After serious problems with menopaus and a bit of nagging from me, HRT was presecribed. The problem wit HRT is that it can take several formulations/methods to find the one that does the job (I know of 4). After 3 a halt was called. My nerves where frazzled as well, but, here's the nub of the story that "old" smell was gone. For other reasons so was I soon after. - I am in no doubt that some men would add that into the subconscious list of dislikes.

AND as for proof of pheromones wot men can't consciously detect - consider the study reported in New Scientist. Uni students frequenting disco/night clubs kept diaries and were photographed. The amount of bare flesh at or near ovulation (statistical average) was higher by more than enough to leave the scientists asking the pheromone question and little else.

"Oh not again!" is not, I submit, a fairer moan ........
I'll get my bathrobe.....

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: harvey andrews
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 05:28 PM

There's something about being a songwriter that causes people to confide in you. So, I know two men who found their wives refused sex after having children. "no need for that anymore" they said.I spent two hours with one friend as he poured his heart out about this. He loves his wife, and loved having sex with her. They've talked, he's asked if she'd contemplate counselling. She says no. He says "Maybe I need a mistress". I know another man who just doesn't find his wife attractive anymore. He loves her still, but she's grown fat, and he married a slim lady. His equipment just doesn't function when he's confronted by rolls of jelly.He wants it to, but he's a visually stimulated male. He can't tell her this outright because he still loves her and doesn't want to offend.So there's silence and frustration.
A woman friend just lies back...he has no foreplay or lasting power.
She's frustrated.
It's a minefield!

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 10:30 AM

Hormones

I just happened to switch to CNN and Larry King was interviewing Suzanne Somers. She was extolling the virtues of "bio identical" hormones. If she is 57 she is a good advert for it - she could pass for thirties on TV. She was also plugging her book "the Sexy Years" which includes long chapters on bio identical hormones. The story seems to be that you have to have regular hormone tests and the prescription is tailored to the results. That way you get realistic levels of oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone and etcetera-ones. And a thinner wallet I bet - (insurance - HMO - NHS - don't cover the hormones or endocrinologist). Half the problem is the erratic nature of the hormonal glands and "one-size-fits-all" overdoses, underdoses, and all the issues of side effects. She does recommend diet - consistent and sensible (her version of sensible). And she lists doctors and website (US based presumably). But she knew her subject - spent years researching the facts.
I always reckon medication is a patch, a repair job on a rust spot - some get tape, some fibreglass and some welding. It is never original.
I was told by an endocrinologist that smokers have an increased risk of cancer and it is that that is the source of the statistics on that subject. But nobody measures the shortening of life through stress, divorce stress. And suicide - that pain is all the harder to take knowing good doctoring might just have prevented one in my family.
HRT for men works but the same story applies - too much and you have an aggressive teenager all over again. Oestrogen etc are also in the story - which can be summed-up in one word - ballance.
And stress buggers-up the ballance of hormones - FWIW there are at least 100 (eg adrenaline & insulin).

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 12:33 PM

Harvey touched on something that I have certainly heard before: "...she ain't what she used to be." To this I can only say, "Who is?" The fact remains that if, indeed, love is still a part of the relationship, it almost by definition includes sharing all of the pleasures that go with it. If a partner truly loves what is on the inside, the outside remains as little more than a vessel. In fact, it always was. (Or in my view, it should have been.)

On the other hand, I have seen people, myself included, allow themselves to stop caring about their overall health. I'm not talking about appearance, although that is connected in a big way. As the years roll on we fail to realize that our bodies, which were once "on automatic" now require genuine effort to remain vital and healthy. Most of us don't make this a priority. The folks who do, who are steadfastly committed, stand out in the crowd. We've all seen them. Many of us make repeated efforts toward accomplishing the same end result; but our lack of committment almost invariably defeats us. The people who can maintain that committment are rewarded not only with healthy-looking bodies, but also with changes that are much less visible.

I suppose what I am saying is that often when we let slide our outward appearance, we are manifesting some problems of the spirit and psyche. In many instances, addressing the physical issues can affect changes in the more etherial ones.

If a partner says he is turned off by changes in body image, he/she could also be reflecting attitudes about the non-physical changes that accompanied them. In other words, he/she might not be too keen on some aspects of what is now on the inside, either.

As Harvey also pointed out, often people do not discuss this sort of issue with their partner for fear of hurt feelings. It is a shame that this is so; but it often is. They cover it up by saying "It's not you, it's me" and refuse to say anything more. While they think they are being kind, they leave their partner with no intimacy and with no idea of why there is none. How kind is that?

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Allan C.
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 03:25 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: GUEST,Grateful Reader
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 04:41 PM

There are some hard truths in this thread. Much to think about.

i am taking steps to sleep in a separate space. It's too stressful otherwise. The rest of the day is great, no problems. As i said before there have been glimmers of hope in other areas of concern.

Again, thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: SueB
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 12:07 AM

I have read something else about pheromones, to the effect that many of the formulations are derived from pig pheromones, which are actually, not surprisingly, offputting. The positive effect that these pig pheromone derived formulas have, if any, must be a placebo effect. So if you're interested in seeing if synthetic pheromones have any effect on your partner, make sure you spend the money to get the good ones. ($100 rather than $29.95) For it to be a legitimate experiment, you'd have to not tell your partner that you're wearing pheromones.

Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Dysfunction or Non-function
From: Amos
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 01:30 AM

The problem there is, the placebo effect has to reach across to the partner involved, which is an extra link. I can see it working by contagion of confidence sorta thing but it is still a bit odd. And to think we owe it all to a pig. Hmmm..   So much for that "top of the food chain" idea...


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