BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club

Subject: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 10:44 AM

As a senior member of Mudcat who has been a member from the earliest days, I have witnessed this beloved site as it went through ups and downs, golden eras and dark ages. I have met fascinating characters, saints and sinners. I was the original founder of Lane, Fielding, Patterson and Swan, layabouts at large and for hire. I am a veteran of the earliest Mudcat Pubs where I had my arse handed to me in the legendary lime jello pit wrestling matches by two women, Harpgirl and The Fair One. Now that I have established my bonafides, let me get to the business at hand.

I mostly lurk and moderate these days. In doing so, I have noticed that we have an elite cadre of Mudcat warriors about, who are always ready to march into battle. They are a nasty lot, ready to eviscerate every word of their opponents. They have no regard for sissified rules of intelligent discourse, preferring the manly art of being nasty, disrespectful, and rude. They parse words and ridicule anyone who disagrees with them and their opinions. Surely these marvels of warriordom have had their martial training backed up by strong intellectual training as they have all the answers. It became apparent to me that these are not your run of the mill obstreperous pricks, these were Black Belt Obstreperous Pricks, worthy of special recognition. Hence I am creating the Black Belt Obstreperous Pricks Order of the Mudcat Cafe. It is an invitation only group, of which I will be the sole arbiter of who will be awarded their black belt. I may even have first through tenth dans to recognize those who are the biggest obstreperous pricks among the elite group. I will accept nominations by PM from fellow old timers. If you are selected for this elite club, you will be informed by PM only. The PM will come from me. If you decide to make it public you may do so, in fact you may attach BBOPoMC after your screen name so everyone will know you are a Black Belt Obstreperous Prick. Your Mother will be so proud.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 12:22 PM

Hang on, back in a minute. Got to open the door.

I reckon the dog has farted.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 01:54 PM

I would deem it an honour to be a member.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 02:10 PM

And then can we have a section for the BBOPoMC group members to post to?


And keep the rest of the Café just for the rest of us? :)



old timer Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 02:13 PM

How do you define "old timer"?

I've been a member for well over a decade, so does that make me one?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 02:23 PM

I'd say so, Stu.
I take it to mean, those who were here in the days when posters were nice to each other and this was a safe, friendly, pleasant place to hang out.

(I met many friends here and arranged visits on the basis of conversations here. Don't know if I'd risk it these days.)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 02:37 PM

prick, or be pricked 

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bert
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 03:35 PM

They come and go with monotonous regularity.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Gurney
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 03:41 PM

Ed T, I would suppose that the obvious conclusion to draw is that Big Mick is English, and is using the term prick in the English slang sense.

To call someone a prick is to call him a dick, plonker, willy, penis, etc. The sense implied is an awkward and indeed obstreperous person of the male gender. A similarly inclined female would likely be called a twat.
I don't know if that sense of the term is common elsewhere. It isn't in the link you supplied.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 03:46 PM

Big Mick is American.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 03:53 PM

Yes I am an American, and a thoroughly modern man of the millennium, hence there is no gender bias here. Membership will be awarded to males or females with no discrimination based on race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or age.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 04:09 PM

But what would one call a sanctimonious, opinionated, holier-than-thou self-satisfied asshole?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bert
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 04:11 PM

That would be a Mudcatter Greg F.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 04:13 PM

Gotcha, Bert. Thanks for the clarification.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 04:17 PM

Asshole?

Some of us are arseholes if you don't mind.

I don't know, you let them have tea without paying for it and next thing they try buggering about with your language.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 04:21 PM

I thought we had to stop the joke at noon, Mick? :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 04:33 PM

Some of us are arseholes if you don't mind.

Sorry for the oversight- you know how us colonials get.

;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 04:52 PM

No, the Mudcat has never been free from the objectionable. Remember for example but without limitation Clinton Hammond, Gargoyle, and Martin Gibson? Oh, and the erudite but spiky Countess Richard?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bert
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 05:20 PM

Right you are Richard. That was in 'the good old days' which we so fondly remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 05:51 PM

But what would one call a sanctimonious, opinionated, holier-than-thou self-satisfied asshole?

Thank you for asking, Greg F. As I contemplate that, it would seem that person would probably classed as a ninth or tenth dan. By the way, you will be pleased to know that you are on the short list for that honor. But I won't reveal if you have attained that honor here.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 06:14 PM

Thanks Mick, much appreciated. No need to be coy - by all means distribute your "honors"{?} publicly - and be damned.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 06:25 PM

"But what would one call a sanctimonious, opinionated, holier-than-thou self-satisfied asshole?"

Zombie chihuahua works for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 06:44 PM

You tell 'em, BooBad!!

Now for something getrmaine, what about the "Small Hope For Israel/Palestine" thread ?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 07:41 PM

I wonder if the pricks ever think about why they're at Mudcat, come up with "I hate the people here and my purpose in life is to bitch-slap them repeatedly" and think that's just fine. I have to look at what I've been feeling about these people and wonder if that's how THEY got to be so nasty. It's not fine, but it's becoming standard around here, and there are fewer and fewer who choose to stand outside the fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 07:55 PM

Keep manning the barricades against the barbarian hordes, Jeri.

By the way, I never got your permission to post. Can you process that a bit more quickly?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 07:59 PM

Why are you here, Greg? Seriously, I don't want you to answer here. I only want you to think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 08:00 PM

not sure this is going to herald a new golden age of us all being nice to each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: JennieG
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 08:11 PM

Excellent idea, Mick - I salute you. As a member now of 14 years' standing (by gosh my feet get sore from all that standing sometimes) I recall the Mudcat of yore with great fondness. There was name-calling, but it was good natured and in fun rather than in malice.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 09:09 PM

Good thinking, Mick. I salute you. It's better than what I all 'em: REMFs.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 11:08 PM

tried to post 2 hours ago, but Mudcat was like molasses.

hmmm...

As a senior member of Mudcat who has been a member from even earlier (Nov.'96) (Bert beat me) than the earliest days, I might have to offer some nominations...

Problem is, there's categories, as well as Dan levels. There are 'sanctimonious crusaders' with have causes who can turn any topic into their inevitable channel... there are 'malevolent trolls' who seem to look for ways to bait the unwary by exaggerated arguments.. there are the 'ethnically humorous' who use (often very) clever wit to play some personal game of debating by creative insult... there are the 'simply contentious' who seldom say anything that is not sarcastic or critical... and there are the Jekyll/Hyde 'hail fellow/good guys' who can become arm-waving threats in response to some perceived fault in the poster's intent....etc.

I do wonder at some of the real problems...like the "Once Famous" Martin Gibson, who seemed at times like he was trying to win a bet about how long he'd be tolerated.

You can probably add to the list.. or even do a better job of expressing mine.... and perhaps you wear one of those categories as a badge of honor.. ☺

(I wonder if there's a category for excessively garrulous explication? Maybe I'd better go check my PMs)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 12:03 AM

It's entropy. The inexorable decline of everything. No point in fighting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 12:21 AM

Worrabout the [what a poster once defined me as] those whose "pedantry is legendary"? Whence the qualification I add after my signature to posts where appropriate,

~Michael~ OLP ['Official Legendary Pedant'].


In which particular, Greg F: the word you sought above which is synonymous to 'relevant' [even overlooking obtrusive-letter typos] is 'germane'; no relation, in spite of all temptations, to the egregious Miss Greer...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 12:37 AM

The Dan ranking system.

We've lost a lot of good members because they can't tolerate the shit stirred up by a few trolls in the BS that occasionally bleeds over into the music threads. Personally, I'd rather keep the good ones and toss the bad ones. The stalking that some of those folks practice is frustrating - no one can read every thread and keep track of who is following whom around and pissing on their discussions, so some people leave rather than bring it up to moderators to try to address.

If we ever take it to a vote, I would choose members only in BS, with the possible exception of GUESTS who ALWAYS use the same name (we can confirm that via IP).

My two cents. Mick already knows who I would nominate for the BBOPoMC.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:43 AM

Ca we nominate ourselves, or do we have to have a proposer and seconder?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:47 AM

Of course we can't. That would be a Bridge too far!...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:24 AM

"Honour loses its 'u' in many of its variants.
Honorary, honorific, honorarium and honorand all lose it.
Honourable and honoured retain it"

Is that true (except possibly in the USA)?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:37 AM

A REAL pedant would have made use of the alternative structure for clarification purposes.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: IanC
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:47 AM

I think someone mentioned above that the statue of limitations on this thread ran out at 12:00 noon on the 1st of April.

Perhaps it's time to say "April Fool!".

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:13 AM

Hmm. The irony is that many - not all - of the people who this thread's complainants have in mind (but lack the the balls to name, of course -'twas ever thus) are some of the most thoughtful and fair-minded and free-thinking people here. Unfortunately, these latter have one fault: they will not not suffer quietly religious bigots, creationists, evolution-deniers, atheist-demonisers, thread-starting tarts, serial misrepresenters, far-right backwoodsmen, homophobes, misogynists, liars, racists, apologists for countries who deal in repression of minority ethnic groups and defenders of child-abusing anti-education perpetrated by organised religion. They call a spade a spade and a wanker a wanker - and will always say why. Contrast that with the pusillanimous and disingenuous yearners for a golden age that never existed who make unsupported claims about why people stop posting on forums (I've stopped posting on forums, or on individual threads, myself on many occasions, nearly always because I was getting bored). Many of the below-line discussions that turn controversial endure an abysmal level of debate. I'd like to suggest that that's a major reason why people are often tempted to stop posting. However (and I've said it, and others have said it, so many times it's beginning to sound banal): if you don't care for what you're reading, don't read it. It really is as simple as that. I hate the Daily Mail so I don't bloody read the Daily Mail (I get to see a copy about once every two months when I'm waiting to get my hair cut, just sufficient to refresh my disdain for the thing). The above-line discussions seem to thrive well enough to me, so just don't come down here if you don't like it. We can fester very nicely here below thank you without your coming to whinge about how much we're offending you (and it really isn't that bad compared with a hell of a lot of online offerings). If you continuously click on threads that you know are probably going to offend you, well you may need to question your own sanity!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:13 AM

Only a prick would try to fool innocent mudcatters. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:38 AM

I think there is a cultural difference between the British and Americans when it comes to robust debate, as Stephen Fry commented on it with his usual insight here: http://www.stephenfry.com/2007/11/19/getting-overheated/3/

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:04 AM

And, then there is the stereotype Canadian approach to debate, where everyone seems to be trying to be "nice" to everyone involved:)

As to cultural differences, when British people use an insult, the choice of terms seems somwhat "funny" to many Canadians I know. Especially those exlosed to Monty Python. It's difficult to take the terms seriously, as they do not seem to be genuine "cussing" terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:32 AM

Separated by a common language, not to mention approach...

I recall the creator of The Simpsons in an interview on the radio when he was over here saying that the script writers try to write at as many levels as they can, including what he felt was British humour. (As opposed to American humor..)

He said that his test was that it was funny in The UK as well as North America. For that, there had to be understatement, letting a comment hang from time to time with no punchline and sophisticated sarcasm.

I don't try to analyse so much. That Monty Python and Mr Bean are popular the other side of the pond could be that those performing fit a stereotype people would be familiar with, whereas Last of The Summer Wine didn't sell in the same way, despite huge popularity in many other countries. (When there was American backing to film Wallace & Grommit, Wererabbit, I often wondered if jokes such as Eyup magazine, SMUG refrigerator or Grommit nursing his marrow prior to the veg competition would cross the pond...)

Comedy and humour aside, Steve is right. There are some people who use the oxygen of an audience for their hatred and obscene take on life, and here, some people are too nice to tell them to fuck off. Which only goes to encourage them.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:37 AM

Hear, hear! Mr Shaw.

And there I am trying to stay out of this after the ruthless extermination of what was shaping up to be a very nice thread as well. What I find deeply offensive around here is the predominating pastoral paternalism from the Mods. I come to Mudcat for the low-life rough and tumble, not to hob-nob with the glitterati, much less the elite 'Old Timers', whoever the fuck they might be.

People leave Mudcat not because of the rites & riots, rather because of the prissy policing policies. Why they come is surely more important - or the fact they are here at all... Me, I come here for the general Crack (note spelling, folksy theme pub habitues) which is more than canny most of the time, though I'm aware the nuances will be mostly lost on such literalists that make a career of taking personal offense where none is ever intended, or else passing a more serious judgement (I suspect this thread has nothing to do with April 1st - I so hope I'm wrong, you chaps!) than you'll find in the most - er - spirited tête-à-tête, such as provoked The Inquisition to slash the Creationism thread.

For shame! I cry. For mercy too, and for pity's sake, give it a break!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:44 AM

Even within a country, differences exist as to humour and insults. Canada is an example, where many English speaking francophone Canadians are puzzled by British humour, as anglo Canadians are puzzled and "underwhelmed" by Quebec swear words, that are mainly based on religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:49 AM

Absolutely Ed. Mrs Musket comes from down south and is proud that I can get a northern audience laughing their heads off with a quick joke between songs, but be buggered if she gets some of them.

(Not funny when you explain them either, which then begs the question.....)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:30 AM

No-one corrected me for typing "continuously" when I should have typed "continually". I am utterly, mortally offended by this and I'm going to just keep clicking on this thread and threads like it so that I can keep on being mortally offended and end up calling people twats. I wonder whether The Daily Mash will have me.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:34 AM

I had sausage & mash last night, if it helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:42 AM

Oooooooh, Sausage, Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink, Oo-er Missus. Now you've done it...

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 10:09 AM

This sausage I just bought in Mrs Miggins' pie shop looks suspiciously like a horse's willy to me...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 10:28 AM

Don't wave it about, you'll get begging letters

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 10:40 AM

BUT IS THE HORSE'S PRICK OBSTREPEROUS?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Noreen at work
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 10:54 AM

I find this thread - or more specifically some of the responses- deeply depressing.

Unfortunately the nastiness does NOT stay below the line. I open very few BS threads, and certainly not the obvious politics/ creationism etc. titles, but the nasty posts leak out.

If it was up to me I wouldn't have any of those "rough and tumble" threads here at all- why should we, it's a Music site!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 11:26 AM

Oh please don't be so thick
a prick is still a prick
A jerk is still a jerk
No matter what you decry
being rude is rude no matter why
Don't blame it on the other guy
Childishness is never wry
As time goes buy.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 11:52 AM

No need to answer, but I wonder what you're finding so deeply depressing about the thread so far. It was started by a mod, it has a rude word in the title (which might have warned the easily-offended not to open it), it contains some banter but also some honest comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 11:56 AM

Don't wave it about, you'll get begging letters

Cheers for the compliment!

There was a young woman from Exeter
So lovely that men craned their necks at 'er
One was even so brave
As to take out and wave
The distinguishing mark of his sex at 'er

(Exeter's only a short trip on the X9 bus...)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 12:06 PM

Exeter's only a short trip on the X9 bus

Doesn't that depend where you start from?

Noreen - Lighten up. There are music VENUES, never mind web sites, with more nastiness than here.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 01:06 PM

Oh, two thanks Steve - one for the limerick which I must remember for the next time I do the limericks song.

Anent offensiveness, I have a T-shirt that some find offensive. Black T-shirt, large white letters saying "S&M". But when you look more closely it says "Sausage & Mash".

By and large I do not find the moderation here prissy - save on the subject of that which we are not allowed to mention.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 01:27 PM

The X9 only goes from Bude to Exeter! Well, and t'other way, of course.

The moderation here is a complete puzzle to me. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Were I a tad more uncharitable than I am, going from their erratic recent behaviour I could conclude that some of the moderators prefer the homophobes, misogynists, religious bigots, creationists, evolution-deniers, racists, misrepresenters and liars to the few of us who call out the homophobes, misogynists, religious bigots, creationists, evolution-deniers, racists, misrepresenters and liars and tell them what gits they are. I scratch my head as I ask meself which one of those two categories of people really drags down the tone of the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 01:35 PM

Don't need to PM-
just count multiple responses to your thread.




(Richard, where can I get one of those T-shirts? Prefer colors reversed, though)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 01:45 PM

Richard ~~ Re yours of 0637, which I take addressed to me, as it fairly closely follows my "OLP [Official Legendary Pedant]" post(& can one, I ask, be a legendary pedant and a real one at the same time? Are not the adjectives mutually exclusive?),

"A REAL pedant would have made use of the alternative structure for clarification purposes." --

Alternative structure to what?

Alternative to what structure?

Clarification of what?

Interested in your use of word 'structure'. When there was this thing that Saussure, Lacan, Derrida, Althusser, Foucault, Luce Irigaray & all them pseuds were pursuing snark-like thru the ringing groves and gardens and forests of Eng Lit back in the 50s-80s, called structuralism, post-structuralism, antedisepoststruc... [cont p 94], I used always to try & read all about it, but would always come away with the conviction that their purpose was to supply answers to questions that nobody had asked, and nobody in right mind would ever even think of asking... So is your comment, which tho not explicitly interrogative gives rise to interrogative response, to be subsumed in this category? & if not, why not?

ANSWER! ANSWER!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:05 PM

I keep saying it and I'll say it again.

Cooking sherry....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:10 PM

It seems as if this Obstreperous Prick Club is actually quite elite and exclusive. I'd like to become a member please, but maybe I'm not entitled as I haven't been posting for years and years like some of you. Perhaps I could start at the lower level and become a Sanctimonious Opinionated Self-Satisfied Asshole (Arsehole for the Brits)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:19 PM

Fascinating, Musket. What are you cooking it with? Or do you mean you keep saying "Rershy. Herrys. Yrhser"?

Well whatever stirs your decanter...

Or supplies your stewpot...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:28 PM

The secret of a good stewpot is to give it the occasional stir.

The decanter has a rather good late port in it. Never meant to be that way. The decanter is supposed to be an ornament but the cork split whilst opening the bottle.

You see, you should always be normal (pour from the bottle) but if something breaks (cork, decency) you should have an ornament to hand that is suitable (decanter, f'ing and blinding).

Or some such bollocks.



Sorry. Rather pissed off. Still at Kings Cross. Supposed to be supporting my local folk club 150 miles North tonight. Looks like nicking Michael's cooking sherry and watching the recorded MasterChef instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:33 PM

Oh my... Stu offered an essay by Stephen Fry to illustrate a point I have made several times here myself... that there is a "cultural difference" between Brits & Americans in matters of "robust debate".

Fry says early on... "We must begin with a few round truths about myself: when I get into a debate I can get very, very hot under the collar, very impassioned, and I dare say, very maddening, for once the light of battle is in my eye I find it almost impossible to let go and calm down. I like to think I'm never vituperative or too ad hominem but I do know that I fall on ideas as hungry wolves fall on strayed lambs and the result isn't always pretty. This is especially dangerous in America."
He then goes on to describe a debate about 'climate change' with an American who, he explains, had a certain vested interest in being a denier. THEN he takes the fact that this denier reacted poorly to having his position being dissected and critiqued as a basic generalization about cultural differences.
   During the explication, Fry lays out his points in a careful schema, describing in clear detail the relevance of each one and very coherently showing what the debate means and the reasonable ways to approach it. BRAVO! Fry did a fine job of showing why 'Jim', the American, had a flawed & dangerous position...........however....

I thought the point of the essay was to describe those awkward "cultural differences"! All Fry did was to describe ONE sorry example of an American who was too financially committed to his own position to see ANY alternative views!
In his opening, Fry suggests that his own 'technique' (read: standard habit) is to " fall on ideas as hungry wolves fall on strayed lambs ". May we assume that this is how he conducted the exchange with the (admittedly dense) American? If so, all *I* see is one "Obstreperous Prick" who happens to be 'right' using the worst possible approach to combating another one!
Where is it written that openly describing and admitting one's disposition: getting "...very, very hot under the collar, very impassioned, and I dare say, very maddening..." can function as excusing one's disposition? Fry seems to indicated that 'Jim' did not appreciate being taken to task for his weak position....Fry says: " I too was upset and angry at his dismissive, illogical, contemptuous tone.".
    Very little is said about HOW 'Jim' expressed his "dismissive, illogical, contemptuous tone." We can only assume he refused to 'play the game' that Fry introduced and would not 'reply in kind' with his own hot, impassioned rejoinders. Gee... I can't imagine why not!

Fry says at the end.."Fierce overheated evenings are needed at evening meals all over the world."...well, perhaps so... but why OVERheated? Why not just heated? Passion for one's position should BE expressed... but if one enters the discussion convinced that has the infallible, righteous view-- and the opponent does also-- how is progress possible? Just "having the debate" and throwing opposing position AT each other almost never accomplishes any compromise or fosters even an understanding OF the other's position. In the case of 'Jim', I can barely imagine a reasoned explication such as Fry made (whether calm or heated) making any inroads ... and, people being people, being yelled usually produces the opposite reaction.
I dunno... perhaps in Britain, just engaging and practicing the invective IS an end in itself, and no one 'really' expects to 'win' (i.e. convince the opponent).... therefore let's just hone OUR points as loudly as possible and achieve some introspective satisfaction that we "did not suffer fools" and impressed the audience with our cleverness.

Gee... I wonder what it would be like to have THIS discussion with Stephen Fry.... I shudder to think....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:35 PM

redmolotov.com https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Sausage+%26+Mash+T-shirt&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&imgil=76BjvV41SkGZaM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSMiVbHaZUbzw93OjjtsyAzQIVHpczuJQ0jTLOnjsRPjckyCi6WhQ%253B460%253B460%253B78ttk-aLtGTRtM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.redmolotov.com%25252Fcatalogue%25252Ftshirts%25252Fall%25252Fs-and-m-tshirt.html&source=iu&usg=__govsDHhH9ZLHtSBJpr9pmTz4a8Y%3D&sa=X&ei=Qlg8U4jtOJCp7AaOoIGAAw&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAQ#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=76BjvV41SkGZaM%253A%3B78ttk-aLtGTRtM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.redmolotov.com%252Fimages%252Fdesigns%252Fs-and-m-tshirt_design.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.redmolotov.com%252Fcatalogue%252Ftshirts%252Fall%252Fs-and-m-tshirt.html%3B460%3B460

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:36 PM

I find it oddly appropriate that this thread points to a symbolic proof of evolution.
A mutant form of Mudcatter, known as 'obstreperous prick', by its nature, poisons the environment. This results in other, less hardy forms of Mudcatter seeking refuge in other environments and so gradually becoming extinct here.

Or in other words, when enough people piss in the pool, the only people left will be those who like to swim in piss. Not a whole lot different than the theory that eventually cockroaches will be the only living thing on Earth, although roaches won't have caused the environmental toxicity... but the roaches aren't intellectually advanced enough to care, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:38 PM

http://www.redmolotov.com/catalogue/tshirts/all/s-and-m-tshirt.html

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:51 PM

Those who poison the environment are as follows:   "religious bigots, creationists, evolution-deniers, atheist-demonisers, thread-starting tarts, serial misrepresenters, far-right backwoodsmen, homophobes, misogynists, liars, racists, apologists for countries who deal in repression of minority ethnic groups and defenders of child-abusing anti-education perpetrated by organised religion".

And of course those of whom we do not speak.

MtheGM - you posted "Of course we can't."

But my question was "Can we nominate ourselves, *OR* do we have to have a proposer and seconder?"

Emphasis now added.

But there is an unexcluded middle. Capisce?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:12 PM

Nah, sorry Jeri. I don't buy it. 'Poisons the environment' is in the eye of the beholder. I have no doubt whatsoever that the Nazis thought that Jews poisoned the environment. Some of the settlers in your fair land thought that the natives poisoned the environment. The rich and powerful have always thought that the poor poison the environment. I have been in some embittered feuds here but I do not believe I have poisoned anything. Others, including yourself maybe, may believe otherwise. We have only our own conscience to guide us. Mine, for one, is clear.

To quote a line from someone or another 'Judge not lest ye be judged.'

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:25 PM

Oy Bridge! You forgot to mention dirty rotten stinking capitalists and armchair socialists!

Disturbingly, I too have bought T Shirts from Red Molotov. My favourite, which I love to wear at folk clubs in line with my past, is Full Donkey Jacket.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:08 PM

Not sure if it was from the same place but one of my own favourite T-shirts reads "Salford - Like Paris without the tower".

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Gurney
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:46 PM

I have also wondered why some people get so insulted here. I've been more insulted by waiters, when I tried to get a meal wearing jeans or a tieless shirt, than anyone here has managed.

It must be frustration, not being able to bop the sods. But a good many people are too dangerous to hit anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:52 PM

Thanks, Richard. You beat me to it!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:54 PM

My favourite t-shirt, which I have not yet got, says "either you like bacon or you're wrong".

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:57 PM

Way-hay, me ole Sunnivagun. You could nick every drop of cooking sherry that has ever graced any kitchen of mine, and nary a drappie down your gullet to pour wad ye win...!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:31 PM

Why DO I bother...?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:00 PM

Steve Shaw, thanks for asking.

As I said, it is the responses I find depressing, not the OP. I enjoyed Mick's post and side with him in it. I know he wouldn't have posted that unless strongly moved by what is going on here.

Almost immediately the attacks on Mick and his ideas started. It doesn't feel like banter to me, and why does 'honest comment' have to be so unpleasant? It is possible to accept that others have opposing views to your own, while respecting their right to express them.

I love an intelligent debate, but I strongly object to the unkindness and abuse which others here obviously take to be 'banter and honest comment'.

And no, DtG, I will not 'Lighten up'. I feel a great affection for this place, the people who started it and the lovely people I have met through it, both online and in real life. I will not just roll over and accept that the bullies can take it over and make it into something nasty, as Jeri succinctly described.

I have no doubt that worse nastiness exists in the world, but I don't choose to spend my limited free time wallowing in it.

If I was in a music venue / pub / any social gathering where someone came out with the sort of comments which appear even above the line here these days, I would find a more pleasant place to spend my time.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:20 PM

Stephen Fry is an ass.

He did a TV program that was supposed to be him touring the USA to present the country, land, and people to Britain. All he did was complain that people smiled too much, they were too nice, they wanted to have fun, that the weather was too nice (or intense), etc. He hid indoors writing in a notebook while others did things. While people danced, he hid in a corner. Then he spent an entire episode running around on a scavenger hunt with male strippers in Las Vegas.

Sure, one can find humor in his presentation of himself as what HE believes to be a stereotypical 'Brit'. He's self-deprecatory - he acknowledges that his dislike of happy, healthy people, activities, and environments is pathological. But so what? Aside from saying "Haha, he's such a 'typical Brit', I'm just like that" or whatever, what can you take away from it? He just did a crap job in presenting USA. And all the while he reinforced a stereotype about Britons and found a way to excuse poor personality traits…by making as if they make him more "British" and as if that was inherently a good thing. Additionally, his interpretation of "American" is ANGLO-American. If he meets anyone of another ethnicity/nationality, he poops his trousers and runs off - they are the wrong kind of American, evidently, for his scheme of "cultural differences."

I swear. Just as there is Orientalism there is this Across-the-Pond-ism that is just as irritating. Fuck Stephen Fry. I'm American and across *my* "pond" is Hong Kong. Across the "pond" on my nation's other side is Accra. Just because I speak a variety of English, it doesn't create any reason to create these comparisons between what I do / think / say and a British person.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:22 PM

Well, Noreen, just look back at some of the comments over many threads coming from the homophobes, misogynists, religious bigots, creationists, evolution-deniers, racists, misrepresenters and liars. I don't mind naming names, so the Jacks, the petes, the Keiths, the bobads, the Akes, the Guffers and one or two others who I may have forgotten. Oh yes, they can sound very pleasant. Very disarming at times. Very reasonable, on the surface. But what you seem to be saying is that you can say what you like as long as you don't say it "unpleasantly". Well I don't agree with that. These people who are being given free rein to spout their unbalanced, illiberal and prejudiced notions are the people who really drag this place down. Just a few of us are not able to tolerate that and we speak out and we don't feel like being especially diplomatic towards people who are taking advantage of your good nature. We see Bill, Gawd bless 'im, being very diplomatic towards pete and pete taking the piss in return, for example. There are times when calling a spade a spade is a bloody good thing. If it's an intelligent debate you want (so do I), you won't get it by giving these nasty people all the rope in the world. You need to consider slightly more carefully exactly what it is you're asking for.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:25 PM

but I don't choose to spend my limited free time wallowing in it.

Well, sorry Noreen, but isn't that exactly what you are doing here? I do not believe for one minute that Micks actions will do anything to stop any nastiness and I have told him so. In fact, I think it could make matters a lot worse but I will be more than happy if I am proved wrong. Highly unlikely though and I would far more strongly support banning or timeouts if required.

I feel we know each other well enough to be frank and I think you, and others, are making Alps out of ant hills. The music section is still a generally peaceful place. The BS can be rocky but in the main it is inoffensive. It is a small minority of posts and contributors that are beyond the pale and, as has been pointed out, this has always happened.

Just my two pen'urth.

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:34 PM

""Never feed your cat anything that clashes
with the carpet""

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:06 PM

Thank you Gibb Sahib... that explains a lot.
-----------------------------------

"There are times when calling a spade a spade is a bloody good thing."

Oh, no doubt. *sitting on my hands, lest I do*

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: gnu
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:23 PM

Hmmm... what happened to the intention of the OP and subsequent good natured banter which ensued and... oh... yeah... never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:34 PM

Hmmm... what happened to the intention of the OP and subsequent good natured banter which ensued and... oh... yeah... never mind.

Nothing happened. You just didn't get it, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:40 PM

Oh, no doubt. *sitting on my hands, lest I do*

Ooh, threats! Great! let's have it then. Preferably without all the quotes, the asterisks and the capitals (as if we don't understand plain English: you understand mine all right, don't you?) From the hip, Bill! We don't mind! Much better that way. You never know, a bit more directness from you might just have helped to give our resident fundamentalist the sidelining he richly deserves!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:42 PM

the thing is, do you only want to talk to people who agree with you.

if you all agree with each other about everything. there's not much to discuss

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:06 PM

Objectively, I second Michaelr. Entropy.

Makes me sad, but I accept the reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:34 PM

I guess I should pop in here.

The thread was not started as an April fools joke, nor was it started to be a definitive statement as to why people leave Mudcat. Steve Shaw gave you a great example of how you can create perfect solutions when you control the predicate. Predictably some of you immediately jumped on the old "yanks are just simple and just don't get the subtleties of English language and humor" line. I reject all of that. Jack, with his poem, captured it nicely. Nasty, obstreperous people are just that. It has nothing to do with cultural differences. There is a small group focused on specific people instead of issues, as well as other things. They are dismissive, arrogant and rude. This was started for no other reason than to point that out.

As to rough and tumble debate being stifled, you can stuff that. There is a difference between no holds barred, intense debate about an issue and attacking someone personally because you don't approve of them. I have long held that the BS debates are critical to a folk and blues forum. I remember when there was a move afoot to ban controversial, mostly political threads. I fought it then and will always oppose such moves. Folk music springs from the issues of the times. As long as the intense debate stays focused and doesn't stray off into the personal I don't have a problem with it. Attack ideas, not people.

So don't make too much of this, it's just me pointing out that we have some people around here who delight in being asshats, or whose smug arrogance leaves a nasty odor. I suppose that could be said of all of us at one time or another but there are a half dozen or so who take it to a new level.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 10:03 PM

now, now, Mick. Stop making sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 01:27 AM

Jack wrote a poem?

Hang on

scrolls up

Well fook me. So he did ! Is there no beginning to this man's talents?

Just an aside about Stephen Fry's America. I thought it wonderful, full of well researched insight and having spent oodles of time across the pond, recognisable.

Like anything else here, it is subjective. People should realise the difference between posting opinion and posting what they deem as fact.

Reet headache from that cooking sherry. Are you sure it weren't Baileys Michael?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 03:23 AM

That didn't turn out how I wanted, sorry.

There again, neither did this football season.




Years since I played with HTML. Must leave it to those clever enough to play with it properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 03:53 AM

The gang of four strike again!!
See?   One sniff of danger, any chance of being exposed for what they are.....they attack.

They want this section closed, end of story. There are far too many open minded people here, who want to discuss complicated and some times controversial subjects in a serious manner.

You can read about their ilk in 1984 by George Orwell.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 05:23 AM

What "gang of four"? What attacks? The only personal attack of any significance has been on Stephen Fry. And I am sure he is not bothered. Who want's the BS section closed? Why make veiled allegations instead of speaking plainly?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:07 AM

Yes Dave a rare moment of agreement with ya. Stop pussyfooting around. Say who the people are who have pissed you off.

Get apologies, and move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:21 AM

"the thing is, do you only want to talk to people who agree with you.

if you all agree with each other about everything. there's not much to discuss"

An appropriate observation of some thread titles and individuals and small groups of like minded folks, who oddly seem more focused on reinforcing a view they hold, and limiting alternative views, versus particilating in a meaningful and potentially insightful discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: gnu
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:36 AM

I went down down down into that burning ring of ire...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:59 AM

It is not about disagreement.
That is the nature of discussion and debate.

It is the nasty, personal stuff that has become accepted.

This morning already I have been called "a trolling little turd" (Jim Carrol) and "fuckwit" (Greg F).
Yesterday "a soft cunt" (Musket)

Why not just challenge what is said?
Name calling requires less actual thought I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:09 AM

You know that guy who stands off to the side, hands in pockets, mouth silent but agape, watching and wondering, unable to look away but unable to participate?

That's me.

I hope there's something left for me when you guys are done thinning the herd. ;-)

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:18 AM

"Maybe I shouldn't be singing this song
Ranting "nd raving and carrying ona
Maybe they're right when they tell me I'm wrong…
NAAAAH!

I'm an asshole (he's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole (he's the world's biggest asshole
I'm an asshole and I'm proud of it!"

Asshole, Dennis Lear

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:18 AM

Well, Keith, I think the point is that some of us don't like to see people who act like those things you mention being insulated from the direct and sharp criticism that they richly deserve. It's people behaving like those things, expecting to get away with not being called names, that are the true cause of the debate, and the forum, being dragged down. For example, I see Ake has reared his head here (with a pretty stupid accusation about a gang of four, whatever that's supposed to mean). Ake is a homophobe. He doesn't like being called a homophobe. We don't just tell him he's a homophobe, we explain to him why he's a homophobe. If he doesn't like it, he should either put up with it or take thought and stop being a homophobe. You blatantly misrepresented me yesterday in another thread. If you don't like being dealt with via sharp tongues, it's really simple. Don't misrepresent people. Jack did it to me all the time and he didn't like the way I reacted to that. Tough. You know, I can spend fifteen or twenty minutes or more trying to make a thoughtful post, then some twit who doesn't like me comes along with a one-liner and negates everything I've said by misrepresenting it, so I have to come back and tell him where he got it wrong and make the point all over again, and I'm supposed to be polite. That is not funny. I regard it as ten times more offensive than being called a name, frankly.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:31 AM

So, Steve Shaw,

You are ok with the following post?

"Steve Shaw is an anti-Semite. He doesn't like being called an anti-Semite. We don't just tell him he's an anti-Semite, we explain to him why he's an anti_Semite. If he doesn't like it, he should either put up with it or take thought and stop being an anti-Semite. "

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:42 AM

I'd be fine with that post if I were an anti-semite, but, as dozens, if not hundreds, of my posts here attest, including at least one yesterday in which I doughtily defended Israel's right to exist and the right of Israelis to live in peace, I'm not one. Of course, if you could provide a single quote from any of my posts that demonstrated antisemitism in any shape or form, I'd retract. Naturally, I'd expect you to ensure that you knew what the word actually meant first. I have my doubts. In the meantime, grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:56 AM

Steve,

Note that I asked IF YOU WERE OK with that post, NOT that it was so.

As YOU state, you would be OK with it IF IT WAS TRUE.


So, if it is NOT true, the person YOU use such logic on has a right to be annoyed with you, correct?

Perhaps you should be a bit careful about what conclusions you draw, and what problems are within YOU for YOUR misreading a simple post.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:59 AM

What is the difference between calling someone a cad and calling someone a twat? The sentiment is the same in both cases. They are both personal insults. One is accepted while the other is not. The only difference, as far as I can tell, is current standards. I must say I do not tend to use 'bad language' in the main but there are times, as Steve says, when it seems to be the right course of action. I am also puzzled as to what the moderators consider to be personal insults. When someone alludes to an identity, whether they use the name or not, and proceeds to claim that the people they allude to are in some way bad, is that not the same as a personal insult?

I am afraid it is all getting a bit beyond me. Can we not have some guidance as to what is acceptable and what is not and then have consistency in deleting posts that are unacceptable and suspending or banning those who regularly break the rules? Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the current level of moderation, but when the moderators get involved in such arguments without accepting the responsibility of policing the site then I begin to wonder exactly what is going on.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:47 AM

I haven't misread anything. If you wish to call me an antisemite, I wouldn't agree but I wouldn't exactly sue you. I would ask you to support your statement (your track record when it comes to responding to such requests is pretty dodgy, isn't it, as we see on the Israel thread at the moment). I don't get upset when I get called names, but I do get somewhat irritated, more as a consequence of the time-wasting involved, when I'm misrepresented. Now you're wasting my time right now. We all know what you're like and your silliness is of little concern. So enough from me to you for now.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:52 AM

No, Steve, you are wasting all of our's time.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:56 AM

Bruce is off his meds again, flailing about on several threads simultaneously.

This, too, will pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:00 AM

Correct. He's pestering me on the Israel thread too. But there's no talking to him. Something about moving goalposts, I think. Now I really must nip out to Morrisons.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:06 AM

Easy.

Everyone is a twat till they convince me otherwise.

That's equality for you.



Except Keith.

He isn't a twat.







He's a soft cunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:08 AM

Now I really must nip out to Morrisons. 6 Bottles of wine - 25% off at the mo. I think. Enjoy.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:12 AM

I do not remember "BeardedBruce" being part of the solution - rather a serial defender of the right-wing indefensible, So is KeithA. I do not remember Steve Shaw being an antisemite. I do remember Akenhateon being a homophobe and racist. These false equivalencies, like the attempts to compare creationism and rational thought, are the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:15 AM

GregF,

You should be able to find the duct tape you need to continue molesting small rodents.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: TheSnail
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:43 AM


the homophobes, misogynists, religious bigots, creationists, evolution-deniers, racists, misrepresenters and liars

I am none of those things Steve but you constantly call me names. Why is that?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:24 AM

"I am also puzzled as to what the moderators consider to be personal insults."

As are they many times. "Personal" insults are not always clear & unambiguous. It is often a matter of context & past history.... but that is only one problem.

" Can we not have some guidance as to what is acceptable and what is not and then have consistency in deleting posts that are unacceptable and suspending or banning those who regularly break the rules? "

Dave... you have been here long enough to remember when they tried to follow a consistent set of rules and keep up with the various threads. What did it get them? It got even more complaints about whether they had been fair & reasonable.... and when stuff was edited or deleted, it often led to bewilderment about broken continuity as folks tried to guess what HAD been deleted.
   Joe Offer has explained all this several times, and Jeri & SRS have tried to clarify it. Max said years ago...(paraphrasing) "It is up to the members, mostly, to learn to converse and make the forum comfortable." But humans come in way too many flavors to write simple guidelines... some want restrained, friendly discussions, some relish unrestrained battle.."Ooh, threats! Great! let's have it then. " (It wasn't a threat... it was my way of refusing to engage in a type of argument that I do not practice regularly, and which 'others' are far better at. Cultural differences...etc. ☺)

I have opinions... and I have stated them on many, many topics for many years here. But I **CHOOSE** to debate the issue and NOT get into a mud-slinging fight with those who disagree with me.
(and there I go, resorting to ".. the quotes, the asterisks and the capitals... " again.)
   Sorry Steve, but that's how I **CHOOSE** to try to make my typing sound like I was talking. It is not up to you to correct my typography...or to direct how I phrase my occasional debate with Pete. If all you want is to bait me into a freewheeling insult match... at which you'd win hands down... no thanks.
(I just remembered a story about our former president, Calvin Coolidge, who was known as "Silent Cal" for his terse and restrained style. A matron came up to him at some event and burbled, "Oh Mr. President! I've just made a bet with my friend that I could get to say three words to me!"... Coolidge looked at her calmly and said , "You lose.")

I, obviously, am not as clever OR restrained as Coolidge, but I do keep his example in mind at times.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:33 AM

... For they shall inhibit the earth....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:40 AM

Fine, Bill D. I understand that. What I don't understand is that if "It is up to the members, mostly, to learn to converse and make the forum comfortable."   why are moderators stepping in and making it more uncomfortable for some than for others?

All we need is a bit of consistency.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:45 AM

Sorry Steve, but that's how I **CHOOSE** to try to make my typing sound like I was talking. It is not up to you to correct my typography

No need to apologise. As for me, I trust the English language to do all the expressing I need. Clumsy attempts to improve on it are, I find, somewhat counter-productive.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:50 AM

"Now I really must nip out to Morrisons." 6 Bottles of wine - 25% off at the mo. I think. Enjoy.

Exactement! I came back with six Canti proseccos and six Trezanti negromaros, both already on offer. Plus I had a four-quid-off coupon as long as I spent fifty quid. Plus that 25% off... You do have to buy exact multiples of six, though, unlike at some other emporia. Golden rule: never pay the correct price for a bottle of wine!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:51 AM

"yanks are just simple and just don't get the subtleties of English language and humour"

No-one said that, and I certainly don't think that. That's two tired old stereotypes in one sentence and anyone who has travelled to the US from the UK and vice-versa would know; they would also know there are plenty of cultural differences, and when we're in the US my American friends and us have a good laugh about them.

Ever heard Prime Minister's Question time?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:55 AM

Because even Max understands that there are limits... and he delegates some of the decisions...*shrug* And the moderators are human and fallible and are themselves members with opinions. Joe has also tried to explain what a pain it was to sort the complaining PMs from those whose definition of 'consistency' was different from his.

There are sites, I believe, with some sort of automated 'censor' program which detects forbidden language. HA!
I, myself was a member of one forum where all posts were not visible until they were reviewed.. often several days later. Wouldn't work here... Some sites just ban people, but that almost always involves a set of IP addresses which include the innocent.

The 'problem' with Mudcat, as well as its virtue, is that it tries to be one of the most open forums around. Free Speech WILL be interpreted to suit each person, hmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:55 AM

I am none of those things Steve but you constantly call me names. Why is that?

Because you lack the courage to agree that evolution is true (or, rather, you keep having a go at me when I say it) and because you have been known to get on me tits by following me around looking for any excuse to tell the world how I disdain Popper, etc. Annoying. But I do know you're basically a sound chap.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 10:57 AM

You see above ...... Dear Mudcatters, a fine example of passive aggressive debate. Couching one's disdain with nice words and an air of superiority could earn one the coveted BBOP designation. Bill Day, one of the finest folks and most thoughtful Mudcatters I have ever had the privilege to meet, ALWAYS expresses ideas and responds to issues. For that, potential initiates into the BBOPC attack his style instead of his ideas. While the example isn't the most egregious example, it is the tip of the iceberg to the behaviour I am speaking of.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:06 PM

Because even Max understands that there are limits... and he delegates some of the decisions...*shrug* And the moderators are human and fallible and are themselves members with opinions.

I guess that was in answer to my question, Bill? If so, fairy nuff. Yes, the mods are human and fallible. I said before, I am more than happy to let them get on with it. It is not as a mod. that I am questioning Mick. It is as a contributor. If anyone else was to send out BBOPC awards I suspect they would be censured. BTW - BBOPC is a poor acronym. Can anyone think of a better term? Tormentors With Attitude Troubles maybe? :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:08 PM

They hate religion and they hate free speech.
They are the "fundies" on this forum, nothing but their agenda will be tolerated.
Anyone who speaks on immigration, or the STD epidemic in MSM is a "racist, or a homophobe.
These subjects are uncomfortable for them, so must be stopped by intimidation or direct cursing...they have no other answer.

I believe it is a concerted effort to have this section of the site closed

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:17 PM

Have you guys noticed anything odd going on with your computers recently?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:20 PM

I will guarantee you they would NOT be censored, Dave. The opening post was tongue in cheek and mentioned no names. It is very likely that we, in our roles as moderators, would have discussed it, and kept an eye on it. As to the terminology I used, that was an attempt at humour, and meant to draw a response. I have always found it hilarious when someone is called an obstreperous prick. I think the first time I heard it was in the Navy when an E-8 Chief Petty Officer had finished off chewing the arse out of a subordinate. The lower ranked enlisted man lost his temper and called the Chief about 47 different kinds of a mo#€~rf*%#ker, and ended with "a old obstreperous prick". It was an amazing display of the ancient and honourable art of creative profanity that these two squids put on. Makes me laugh just thinking about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:25 PM

"The 'problem' with Mudcat, as well as its virtue, is that it tries to be one of the most open forums around."

It's openness is what makes it a great place to be, but as you say that comes at a price. However for all the boors, prigs and pompous gits (me) it is a wonderful place, and the only forum I've stayed on since I started back in the late 1990's and still log onto several times a day.

I've met people here who have, through robust and thoughtful argument changed my thinking on some subjects at a fundamental level; Divis Sweeney springs to mind as someone who showed me the other side of a complex and difficult subject and made me think differently and realise much about how we are spoon-fed information by governments and media on any number of subjects. I'd like to buy the man a pint.

It doesn't matter if the mods don't get it, if we don't get it or whatever. What matters is it's here, it still exists and we should be grateful.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:28 PM

To date, you are a homophobe Akenaton, and one or two others seem to think normal people as a concept clashes with their ideology.

You don't speak about any of those subjects. You tell us that in your opinion, gay people get together for sex not love. That all gay relationships are "open" ones with multiple partners.

You say "marriage" rather than marriage when referring to gay couples despite their marriage being every bit as valid as your own.   

You wish to force gay people to invasive clinical testing against their will, even when there is no purpose nor reason. You can't accept that gay people can be monogamous or not engage in sex. Or that clinical data shows that a higher proportion of gay people practice safe sex than heterosexual people. You quote data from a foreign country, wrongly I might add, in order to push your odious agenda here. You see the high take up of voluntary testing by gay people as a reason to force testing on the demographic that accesses it most anyway. There are more heterosexual people living with HIV than gay people yet all you wish to do is round up gay people as the only way to stop AIDS.

Free speech?

That isn't free speech. That's abusing free speech to propagate a disgraceful criminal agenda.

If this section can stay open but without your polluting filth, it would be a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:38 PM

If my post seems a tad obsequious then be sure that's not the intention.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:42 PM

How would one refer to one who posts that being gay is a perversion?

Just wondering, in case it ever happens ;) ?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:53 PM

Ho hum. Some of the usual BBOP are here, repetitiously posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 12:57 PM

Q .... Two thumbs up!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 01:20 PM

If you can get two thumbs up, you may be able to approach the subject with a degree of empathy.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 01:49 PM

Ho hum. Some of the usual BBOP are here, repetitiously posting.

Ho hum, the same holier-than-thou, supercilious, extraneous crap from the usual Q, posting as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 01:57 PM

"Two thumbs up- does it hurt?"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 03:00 PM

Hi Mick - Thanks for the response. I did say censured and not censored but I am happy to forgive that mistake - Anyone can do it. Even me :-) I think that anyone else would have been censured for it and, on reflection, I have shown my disapproval so consider yourself censured! You are welcome to take no notice at all and I will leave it at that but I still think you have caused a fuss for nothing. Water under the bridge now though so I will not bring it up again.

I like the term Obstreperous Prick too and it adds a whole now meaning to the term 'OP'. Now when I see someone reffering to the OP I will not be sure if they are being insulting or not :-) I do think we could find a better term with a pithier acronym though. How about STop Obstreperous Pricks Interacting Today!? (STOPIT!)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 04:11 PM

You see above ...... Dear Mudcatters, a fine example of passive aggressive debate. Couching one's disdain with nice words and an air of superiority could earn one the coveted BBOP designation.

Hmm. Perhaps you'd care to explain what the bloody hell you're on about. Passive aggressive debate, eh? Have you just made that up? Go on, give us an example or two!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 04:29 PM

And so to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 04:56 PM

And so to bed.

And long overdue.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:41 AM

Musket, Greg F., Steve Shaw (and a few others who are simply not coming to mind right now) I wonder if you might consider that you are are each and collectively closed systems from perhaps constructive feedback. As closed, albeit along different avenues, as those who you feel free to dehumanize because of their closed belief systems.

Also wonder if you ever reflect on the logical dissonance encompassed in your assertions that those who espouse beliefs that are irrational (or to some extent are simply different from your own beliefs) or invalidating of others deserve to be invalidated when those values you say are so dear are about valuing the worth of other human beings.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:16 AM

Janie ...... You will never make it into the Black Belt Obstreperous Pricks Club talking like that .... Just sayin'

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:23 AM

Sorry for the garbled last sentence. Pointless to correct. Says something, and not flattering or constructive about me, that "points" figured into my thinking at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:29 AM

Janie

If you want to discuss members and their approach to human beings, start with those who devalue fellow humans before questioning those who point out their awful agenda.

As far as I can make out, those, me included, whom you pick out for criticism tend to be reactive rather than proactive. I for one refuse to let hatred go unchallenged.

Akenaton is entitled to a view. He is not entitled under the law where he lives to promote that view by inflammatory lies to demonise sections of society.

I have already reported this via my ISP.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:00 AM

Musket et. al. I understand that closed systems are closed systems. Doesn't hurt to knock every now and again to see if some one comes and opens a door just a crack. Not sure if the door just cracked open or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:33 AM

From one of those who has left the scene as a whole.

Matters came to a head over the death of Countess Richard. I took to heart the critique that local folkies had done nothing to care for her, being a local folkie: I now sing with the Bowes Road Community Choir, rather than the new Bounds Green Singers Club. Our turf is where she lived, although I did not know that.
Consequently, I took it on me to try to find out what had actually happened, and posted as soon as possible the data obtained from the responsible authorities concerning the rumours. For example, it was thought that she had died in the local hospital, who confirmed that to the best of their knowledge she was still alive. For that, I was thoroughly vilified. None the less, I kept going, and after plaguing the local registrars of deaths discovered that yes she had died some time back, and that yes no funeral had yet happened because they had had trouble finding her family. I then trogged up to the coroners who welcomed me with open arms because they had just found her brother, who remembered you bunch but not what you were called, let alone had any contact with you. That then allowed him to get in contact, I backed off and the rest is history.

I put myself in her position. Would I want friends who behave like you did? I do not. The Germans distinguish between humans and real people, they have a word "mensch" for the latter. It does not apply to the members of the local clubs who did nothing to support her when alive, nor to the ivory tower theoreticians here who expected perfect and instant knowledge when they weren't bothered to actually get off their fat arses here and help find out. Friends like that I don't need either, and that includes most of the folk community in North London.

So before you get too comfy and self-justified in your complacency, kindly take this thought from someone who still wishes you well from outside the tent: what you have done in the past belongs in the past. It is what you are doing next which matters, and although you are building that from the wreckage of the experience of what you have done in the past, you are only as good as your next gig. It will stop being negative, and cure the aforementioned problems - and might restore the folk world as we know it.

No, I'm not open to self-justificatory replies or acerbic criticism: as far as I'm concerned that's in the past, this is simply a statement of the personal viewpoint of one ex-folkie who walked away and whose mind is made up. Too many of you don't give a folk about folk, real folk, proper people, and that is a serious character defect. However much you may pride yourself in ecky-thump robustness, it has to be backed with common humanity, which if lacking, just turns you into a pit of bile and shite. It is up to those who have some to sort out those who don't, and it is the task of the mods to back them up. It's not being prissy to expect some human heart in someone's general postings, to mix toughness and gentility, if all you are becoming is a grinder, and perhaps that is what this is about: build, don't destroy.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:36 AM

POST...3 April 2014. 12:28pm.

Almost every word of this post is a lie.
This is how they operate, tell lies often enough on an internet forum and people begin to believe them.
Each allegation can be checked back, but nobody can be bothered, so it just slips through.


Jeri.....I have had trouble with this site, logging on and navigation,
my tech guy says a bug/tr has been inserted and he sorted it out.
He's working on it at the moment.
I informed admin, and changed my SP.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 05:24 AM

No, Akenhateon, you have been outed. Get used to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 05:52 AM

so lets re-cap.

1) the people who think God requires weird stuff of us, say you should stop being nasty. I agree - these people have tough lives. be nice to them, as nice as possible.

2) poor old Diane. we're most of us of an age. I hereby absolve you all from worrying about what happens when I drop off the twig. I have asked that an announcement be put in the stage. I have asked the MU to be notified but I doubt anybody knows me well enough to put it in their magazine. hopefully they will stop collecting my subscription.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:07 AM

Funnily enough worm, I quoted you to the word in each example. If people have the stomach to read your mealy mouthed hatred, all they have to do is click on your name and read your posts. Plenty to go at, especially any thread with gay, HIV or similar in the title.

Bridge says you have been outed. You outed yourself, because you just can't help it. You come out with outrageous lies aimed at a section of society and think everybody here is stupid enough to wonder if you might have a point. You keep repeating your desire to stigmatise people in the name of healthcare, which is about as unforgivable as it gets.

Society moved on if you didn't notice. Governments run countries, not head superstition merchants. The only political party with a few bigots lurking happens to be the one that has delivered gay marriage, The Equalities Act and has more openly gay MPs on its benches than all the other parties put together.

Now... What was that nonsense about a liberal plot?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 06:40 AM

"They hate religion and they hate free speech."

Wrong on both counts Ake.

You can't hate something which simply has no relevance to you.

But you can object to children being brainwashed with irrational myth and fairy tale presented as truth.

As to free speech, go for it, but be aware that shouting fire in a crowded theatre is NOT free speech, and neither is vilifying people for their ethnic origins or sexual orientation.

The former is dangerous stupidity and the latter bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 09:59 AM

I suspect there may be a higher proportion of bigots in certain non-UK political parties, and indeed some UK political parties with no Commons seats. Try to keep up, Mither.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:00 AM

Closed systems? What more closed system can there be than the dedicated Catholic who proudly ditches rationality in favour of mysterious "greater truth", the dyed-in-the-wool homophobe who can't even type "gay wedding" without quotes around "wedding", or the rabid, science-denying creationist, all of whom dwell here? Are you sure you're not confusing "closed system" with "someone who don't talk nice, in my opinion?" As Musket says, we don't start this stuff, you know. If you think that attacking proud irrationality or proud prejudice is the work of closed minds, well I think you've got something slightly arse about face there!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 10:47 AM

Keep up yourself Bridge. I don't give credence to UKIP myself. Nor any other right wing fringe concern. You will notice I inferred the Tories rather than a coalition are in government too.

I thought you would like that, coming from a dirty rotten stinking capitalist such as yours truly?

By the way, me old fruit. Don't dream of me struggling when you come to power and put me up against the wall, I'll stand there and help them get their aim right...    A wold run by a solicitor in an armchair. I need a drink......

If I end up a member of Mick's prick club, any attempt by you to join will result in my casting a black ball. So don't fret eh?




Ah.. That's better. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:22 PM

I suppose I will have to refute the lies told in the 12:28pm post.

The poster has been caught and proved to be a liar on several occasions in this forum. I make a point of NEVER knowingly lying on this forum, all statistics come from HPE (HPA), or CDC.


"You tell us that in your opinion, gay people get together for sex not love. That all gay relationships are "open" ones with multiple partners."
Blatant lie! What I actually said is that "homosexuals are defined by who they have sex with, not who they love" that is a indisputable fact
"all gay relationships are open ones with multiple partners"
Blatant lie! I quoted a study done in the US which found that "around 50% of male homosexual "marriages", unions, are open relationships containing multiple sexual partners" this study was for a major American city, San Francisco.

"
You wish to force gay people to invasive clinical testing against their will, even when there is no purpose nor reason. You can't accept that gay people can be monogamous or not engage in sex. Or that clinical data shows that a higher proportion of gay people practice safe sex than heterosexual people. You quote data from a foreign country, wrongly I might add, in order to push your odious agenda here. You see the high take up of voluntary testing by gay people as a reason to force testing on the demographic that accesses it most anyway. There are more heterosexual people living with HIV than gay people yet all you wish to do is round up gay people as the only way to stop AIDS."

The above is a load of desperate nonsense, bearing no relation to my views....Of course homosexuals CAN be monogamous, what an idiotic allegation, which of course I never said.

The data from the US is perfectly relevant on this forum, and when I use CDC data I try to say so in my post.

I use quotation marks in homosexual "marriage", as I do not agree that marriage can be between any one but a man and a woman.

Most people in this area of Scotland hold the same view.
The churches hold the same view.
The vast majority of people worldwide hold the same view.

I did say that if male homosexual HIV new infections continue to rise at the present horrific rates, then testing and contact tracing may have to be made compulsory. That was several months ago and I now think compulsion would indeed be unworkable.....but increased testing and contact tracing is imperative if the epidemic is to be halted.


"Free speech?

That isn't free speech. That's abusing free speech to propagate a disgraceful criminal agenda."

Another blatant lie! There is nothing "criminal" in what I write here Most of it comes directly from the health agencies it is NOT a crime to hold alternative views, or express opinions based on published facts.

UNLIKE STALKING and LIBEL, which are crimes under UK and US law.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:26 PM

Mither - check grammar. Akenhateon, check law.   And also realise that the IMPLICATIONS of what you say are part of your public persona. Even if you have your words right, you don't have the melody.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:31 PM

those who you feel free to dehumanize because of their closed belief systems.

Sorry Janie- just more new-age pop psychology, I'm OK You're OK, everything is beautiful in its own way, pity the poor bigot & etc nonsense.

1. I don't "dehumanize" anyone- these clowns are all TOO "human"

2. Ignorance, bigotry, stupidity and willful idiocy should be called out for what they are.

And your right- that last sentance is absolute gibberish.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:37 PM

I really hope ake is nominated for this classic -

"homosexuals are defined by who they have sex with, not who they love" that is a indisputable fact

How much of an Obstreperous Prick do you need to be to think that it is an indisputable fact that if you don't have sex, you cannot be homosexual. Wrong thread to post it on, I know, but it needed saying.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:42 PM

too weird Ake.

if no one lives round where you live is gay. you will not catch the lurgy by your calculation - so why worry.

however if everyone where you live thinks that being gay is mucky stuff. its a view that implies either purblindness, or great hypocrisy.

lotta people in the closet wearing kilts.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 12:58 PM

I use quotation marks in homosexual "marriage", as I do not agree that marriage can be between any one but a man and a woman.

Most people in this area of Scotland hold the same view.
The churches hold the same view.
The vast majority of people worldwide hold the same view.

I don't give a stuff how many people round your way hold your view. Billions of people hold the view that there is a God and they're all almost certainly wrong (nothing is certain, of course, except that evolution is true). Gay marriage is the law. It doesn't matter what you think any more. It's gay marriage, not gay "marriage" or homosexual "marriage". We don't say Conservative "Party" or the Liberal "Democrats" or the "Catholic" Church, no matter how much we dislike those institutions. Grow up. It's gay marriage now and always will be. Just think what an even bigger fool you're going to look if you're still typing gay "marriage" in ten or twenty years' time.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:10 PM

"Most people in this area of Scotland hold the same view.
The churches hold the same view.
The vast majority of people worldwide hold the same view."

True or not (seems suspect to me), that does not make it any more right, logical nor compassionate

There was a time that slavery was conded by many, likely even a majority. But, most of us "got better" through time with superior reasoning and compassion. And, some of us can extend this compassion to fellow loving humans, though unfortunately not all (church going, claiming to be christian, or not).

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:24 PM

FROM ONE OF THE INMATES OF ROOM 101.
"How much of an Obstreperous Prick do you need to be to think that it is an indisputable fact that if you don't have sex, you cannot be homosexual. Wrong thread to post it on, I know, but it needed saying"


WTF???

Big Al.....how's it goin' bud?

No Al there are three homosexual couple who live in our scattered area, we get on alright everyone is civil, kind, "tolerant", but most of the folks, and I meet hundreds in my working life, are against the redefinition of traditional marriage of accommodate what they see as a sexual minority.
I have never met anyone locally who "hates" homosexuals.
The English? yes, homosexuals? no   :0)

Most of them see marriage as much more than "sex" or "love"
Many people here live together for a few years, then when they feel ready to have their children, they marry.
They see traditional marriage as an institution to provide security and guidance in bringing up a family

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:24 PM

This thread has gone way off course, actually in several directions.

Attacks upon viewpoints that are held by large percentages of the population, religious, sexual, whatever, do nothing but expose the poster's intolerance- a reverse bigotry, as it were.

Attacks on Akenaton, with whom I often disagree, but is honest in his posts, is a case in point.


HIV testing should be required prior to all marriage contracts, traditional as well as MSM. The latter group has by far the highest percentages of HIV.

U. S. Center for Disease Control (CDC) Data (2010).
MSM accounted for 63% of estimated new infections (2010 data) and 78% of infections among newly infected men.
New HIV Infections
White MSM   11,200
Black MSM   10,600 (36%)
Hispanic-Latino MSM   6,700 (22%)
Black heterosexual women   5,300
Black heterosexual men   2,700
White heterosexual women 1,300
and lesser % ---

I would expect similar results for UK

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:34 PM

Here ya go, Q:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470585/

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:50 PM

You can expect Q but there are a few differences. One being take up and availability of screening. More to do with geography and nationally funded service than cultural differences I suppose. MSM is the highest new figure each year, as more feel they could be at risk, although there are more non gay people living with HIV in The UK than gay people. Where's in a much larger area such as The USA, a national figure is less meaningful. After all, you would have to rope in much of North Africa and Scandinavia to get a group listing here as large. I expect different figures in San Francisco to Dumbfuck Alabama

Isn't it wonderful how the worm types a post to show he isn't homophobic and comes out with the most outrageous disgraceful bigoted shite?

I know his area of Scotland well. No different to anywhere else. When people are stigmatised by merely existing, they cluster. More gay people in cities. More black people in cities. More people with mental health issues in cities. The more rural you get, the less you see.

If the attitudes of scum such as Akenaton had died out years ago, the roses would smell that bit nicer.

And yet he is allowed to post these lies and targeted hate. Question him and you get an email from Joe. I am still awaiting my apology by the way from Max for allowing members with access to accounts to send emails to members telling them how nasty they are to poor little Akenaton. I might just post the bugger. I am getting fed up of the hypocrisy and lack of moderation. We have gay members. How depressing to innocently open a post and seeing someone make sweeping untrue lies about you without even knowing you?



Bridge. For someone who went to uni' in Nottingham, I expect you to realise that when correcting grammar, don't forget that you don't talk rate like what we do me duck.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 01:54 PM

People are free to hold their views. However, it is a different matter when one is promoting something openly, especially topics which are clearly known to stir up heated discourse. With that in mind, it may be of interest to see who brought up a discussion that led to the "forks in the road" (note that mods are also not immune to stirring up the fire pot).

Disagreeing with someone and stating a case to support it, is hardly an attack. Nor is telling them what you feel about what they are promoting.

It is puzzling to state that a thread with such an odd topic could "go off course".

I am puzzled by what course was intended?

I suspect that with such an op, the discussion would be bound to go in a variety of directions, which it has done.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 02:13 PM

Do not contradict the almighty Q !

Q is a character who appears in the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager, as well as in related products. The name "Q" also applies to all other individuals of the Q Continuum.

Q is said to be omnipotent, and is continually evasive regarding his motivations. His home, the Q Continuum, is accessible to the Q and their guests, and the true nature of it is said to be beyond the comprehension of "lesser beings" such as humans so it is shown to humans only in ways they can understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:03 PM

Hijacking threads ..... Hhhmmmmm ...... Certainly will have to be added to the criteria for BBOPC designation. Piling on with personal invective instead of just attacking the ideas advanced ... Another.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:10 PM

BBOPC designation big prick club motto:

"Size matters- My (cherry-picked) statistic has more length, girth and holds longer than yours does"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 03:58 PM

Mick, obviously this is the Illustrated Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club thread.

Are you reading all of this?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 04:06 PM

"Are you reading all of this?"

Read it, he ( moderately) inspired-planned much of it, with Joe O!

:), of course;)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 04:13 PM

".Of course homosexuals CAN be monogamous, what an idiotic allegation, which of course I never said.

So you use data from a single US city which has a quite anomalous skewing of demographics, and try to claim it is relevant to the whole of the UK. If that isn't a deliberate lie, then it must be wilful stupidity. Take your choice!

"Of course homosexuals CAN be monogamous, what an idiotic allegation, which of course I never said."

How does that gel with your rubbishing of any suggestion that homosexual marriages would tend toward monogamy and reduce infection.

"I use quotation marks in homosexual "marriage", as I do not agree that marriage can be between any one but a man and a woman."

Nobody really gives a tuppenny damn what a narrow minded homophobe thinks. Same sex marriage (without quote marks) is a FACT, like it or lump it. You can deny it till you are blue in the face and it won't change a thing.

I guess you aren't anything like as important as you thought Pharaoh.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 04:25 PM

I guess you aren't anything like as important as you thought, Pharaoh.

Don't matter what Pharoah thinks, but what Q, his defender, thinks. Possibly Janie, as well.

Try to keep u, will ya?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 04:26 PM

"are against the redefinition of traditional marriage of accommodate what they see as a sexual minority."

So you and those "hundreds" (largely fantasy, I feel) of like minded people don't believe that minorities have any right to share the privileges which you enjoy.

Discrimination against minorities is one definition of bigotry.

At the very least it is a very unpleasant form of exclusivity, but of course you believe that any attempt to include those people whose lives you disparage is rampant "liberalism".

What a pity that they aren't asking for nominations to the club of the thread title!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 05:13 PM

Wonderful argument, ake.

FROM ONE OF THE INMATES OF ROOM 101.

It makes me think of Aristotle, Satre and Russell rolled into one. Have you ever thought of making a living in politics?

SRS - You owe me a new keyboard :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: gnu
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 05:41 PM

Hahahahahaaaaaa... aaahhahahaha!! I am on my third tissue!!! I left the thread but decided to see what was up. I chose a random post to start with and find out there are gay Scots who wanna marry and someone doesn't like it? FUUUUUCK me! Hahahahahaaa.

Oh, I can be a right prick if pricked but I don't go around being a prick. Matter of fact, since I am half French and half Irish decent I figure I deserve at least a Red Belt without even trying.

Mick... no PM. Can I be awarded at least a Red Belt just based on lineage? As for any belts above such stature, I doubt if I could achieve such given the shite I have read on this thread alone. So inane that it made me laugh to the point of tissues. I went head to head with many of the wannabe black belt holders over the years as many Mudcatters did but, in the end, it's just banter if you don't include the true trash... and we all know who they were before they were banned. Well, some of them. Some got banned with little fanfare.

So! I thank youse all for the extraordinary laughs and can only say... Carry on. Smoke em if ya got em. Give er all she'll suffer and don't back off til she breaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 07:39 PM

Yeah, Maggie, I am reading it. The usual suspects are doing exact y what I knew they would. It's like watching a convention of Pavlov's dogs. I agree with gnu. I am enjoying the hell out of watching them make my point.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 07:50 PM

I am enjoying the hell out of watching them make my point.

Your point being?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 08:03 PM

""For the puppetmaster, winning the contest is more important than winning the prize."

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 08:20 PM

I'm trying to stay out of this thread, although I notice my name has been mentioned more often than makes me feel comfortable.....


"Back in the Day," Rick Fielding and I would converse privately about such matters.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: gnu
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 08:30 PM

"Your point being?"

Hahahahahahahahahahaa.... stop it! Yer gonna make me laugh so hard I can't catch my breath.

Good one, Greg!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 08:40 PM

Does the Black Belt serve to stop premature ejaculation? Or is it just a cock-ring designed to keep your peckers up?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 08:58 PM

Gnu: Hahahahahaaaaaa... aaahhahahaha!! I am on my third tissue!!! I left the thread but decided to see what was up. I chose a random post to start with and find out there are gay Scots who wanna marry and someone doesn't like it? FUUUUUCK me! Hahahahahaaa.

Oh, I can be a right prick if pricked but I don't go around being a prick.

Big Mick: I agree with gnu.

Bwahahahaha! I nominate you as the first member of your own club, Big Mick!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Apr 14 - 11:45 PM

We have gay members. How depressing to innocently open a post and seeing someone make sweeping untrue lies about you without even knowing you?

So its OK to make sweeping untrue lies if you know the person?

"Bwahahahaha! I nominate you as the first member of your own club, Big Mick! " Shaw, if you aren't a member by now, there aren't going to be any.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:10 AM

Dave the Gnome, you're welcome, and I suspect you are disqualified from joining this not-so-august group.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:52 AM

I doubt any of us were nominated by pm to Mick but now we are all here, we should set up some club rules.

Our nautical friend can write them if he wants, he used to like rules as I recall.

By the way Jack. Yes, it alright to be abusive towards abusive people. Pacifist I ain't.




ps. Can we throw Dave out? He is trying to organise a splinter group, a reformed club already!



Joe. It was in context when I mentioned you. Cause and effect and all that.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:01 AM

No problem, SRS. As Musket says, I have formed a splinter group :-) It's OK though - I have arranged that we meet on different nights.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 06:12 AM

I am doing okay Ake. They've re-released Rummenigge ,for the fist time as a download, in time for the world cup! And you get worldwide release with this download business. so I have kept May free - but I am doing a few gigs as well.

As for this other business. I think we're both of age. I do not agree with you. most peoples views of gay matters have moved on. I think you would be surprised how attitudes have changed amongst your neighbours.

the old terms of abuse have lived on.. its like fat. its a handy detail about your private life to beat someone up that has pissed you off. being gay doesn't mean you're not a twat. the queer joke - not as prevalent as it used to be - but it lives on.

we're just old mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:05 AM

Folks, the point is simple. Intense, heated debate of issues is fine. Attacking ideas is great. Personal attack is just being an asshat.

But I do note that ones who are most guilty of arrogant, smug, bullying behavior are the ones moaning the loudest. While I have enjoyed watching them react in predictable ways, the real point of the thread is twofold. First, there is no need to be an arsehole/asshole as you vigorously debate or discuss issues. Attack, passionately, ideas and issues you believe in, but leave the personal attacks home. This includes bullying. The examples of gang bullying among a certain group here are disgusting. The second point was to give a thread where the majority of Mudcatters could see exactly who the asshats were. Thanks for cooperating so brilliantly. You have shown your wares for all to see.

Why is being decent to one another so hard on the internet?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:14 AM

what is this asshat business, Mick?

I'm not sure we have that word yet. Sometimes we don't pick up on the subtleties....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:26 AM

My asshat happens to be made from muleskin....



Where but on the internet can you be accused of being a gang member and a bully by a fool?

Keep banging the rocks together!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:32 AM

If you want an example of decent discussion, go to the "BS: Shh.. Don't let them hear you.. " thread and begin reading with Joe Offer's post of 03 April at 04:19 AM. Note how Joe, for,the most part, responds with respect and attempts to keep the discussion on the issues at hand. He does it despite the provocations laid out. Note how certain provocateurs continue to try and make it about people instead of ideas. I agree with Joe, for example, about ake. I think he is as wrong as he can be with his views on homosexuality, but he tries to express them based on his belief system.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:37 AM

"Attack, passionately, ideas and issues you believe in..."

A blessing!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:39 AM

Re: 'asshat'
If you're wearing your ass for a hat, where's your head?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:50 AM

No one is accusing you of being a bully Musket. That ship has long sailed. You say that you are a bully because Ake is a bigot. But you are a grown man who says he is responsible in the real world. You know that bullying is exactly the wrong way to fight ignorance.

Sorry to be harsh, but that is the reality that I see.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:51 AM

"Tickling with sharp things isn't usually called tickling"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:52 AM

Aye, prisons are full of people found guilty of practicing their belief systems....

Most civilised countries have had to sadly pass laws protecting people from discrimination, gay people being a good example. Further to that, publishing incitement to hatred is an offence. So publishing views is fine, but stating that being gay is against natural law, stating that they are the main cause of HIV, stating that they have open relationships with multiple partners, Stating they are rare in Scotland, stating that they are only interested in sex not love....

To what end?

Oh yes.. Proposing that gay people should have to report to the authorities three times a year for invasive clinical tests. Not people who have unprotected sex with multiple partners, not even people who have sex at all. Just for being gay.

Mick. You are so wrong when you defend his right. He has a right to a view. He has no right to influence opinion with homophobic lies intended to vilify sections of society.

People have ideas, if you hadn't noticed.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:56 AM

"Why is being decent to one another so hard on the internet?"

What makes you think they don't behave the same away from the internet?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:56 AM

200. Back of the net!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:02 AM

Sorry Stu, beat you to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:04 AM

Musket, You now damn well Ake wouldn't be up before a judge for anything he has said If he said it to Elton John's face and if Elton was her majesty's minister of Justice.

This thing you do where you puff up his wrongdoings to comic extremes so that you can rant about him, is getting more than a little tired and tedious.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:04 AM

where is my head.......aha! found it!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:07 AM

Wrong, wrong, wrong, Musket. It is only when ideas, right or wrong, are exposed in the commons that they come under the scrutiny of average folks. Your philosophy shows a lack of trust, and a lack of respect, for the ability of average folks to discern whether something is good, bad, or somewhere in between. I have full faith that average folks are decent and intelligent people fully able to discern right from wrong. Ake has every right to espouse his opinion, as well as bear the consequences for them. If he was being derogatory towards a gay person, I would likely censure him. If he is expressing his opinion about the gay lifestyle, based on his beliefs, I would challenge those beliefs.

A couple of hundred years ago we had a little dustup with old flinty. One of the issues became our First Amendment in our Bill of Rights. It basically says that while I may disagree with your opinions, I will defend unto death your right to have them.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:17 AM

"Be nice to everybody - especially yourself! And how to you be nice to yourself? By being nasty to everyone else! "

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:20 AM

Even now there is a band of gay ninja somersaulting and screaming through the heather towards Ake...

He will bear the consequences of espousing his opinion. Gay pride will be avenged!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:20 AM

"Sorry Stu, beat you to it."

I was trumped fair and square!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:23 AM

I have full faith that average folks are decent and intelligent people fully able to discern right from wrong.

Mark Twain, Kurt Vonnegut, H.L. Mencken, Charles Pierce and a host of others who have experience with the real world would disagree with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:25 AM

"I have full faith that average folks are decent and intelligent people fully able to discern right from wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:29 AM

"I have full faith that average folks are decent and intelligent people fully ab

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:54 AM

Bloody hell . . . I'm working as well as following these threads and my machine got jammed as my 3D software pinched all my available RAM and the whole shebang came to a stuttering halt, hence the fussy posts. Apologies for the clutter.

What I was trying to say with my not-to-subtle link (and would have typed under had the gremlins not got in) is that sometimes decent, perfectly intelligent people can be wrong; very, very badly wrong.

We have a duty to oppose extremism and bigotry in all it's forms, and whilst some of the tactics here are rather direct, the tactics of some of those provoking these reactions are far more insidious, using misrepresentation and deception in support of their arguments, all the time sneering at the work of honest, decent people.

Just because someone uses nice language and appears meek in the face of outcry does't mean they're not worse than those whose outrage is articulated in a way that offends some people, often selectively.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 11:24 AM

No Mick, sorry, but I think you have it wrong. I will ask the same question that I asked Joe on the thread you referred to. In the situation where person A says "I think that gays are perverts and should be deprived of their human rights" and person B responds "You are a twat for saying that" which viewpoint would you uphold? Person A has the etiquette of debate right but surely person B has every right to respond in the way he did. Or have I got it wrong?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 11:45 AM

I would just tell them what was wrong with their statements.
Name calling just invites a response in kind.
My way forces them to try and defend their views and further expose their bigotry or makes them confront it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:08 PM

My way forces them to try and defend their views and further expose their bigotry or makes them confront it.

Ever try looking in the mirror, Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 01:11 PM

Remember I am a fuckwit Greg.
You will have to explain what you mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:01 PM

I mean you're a fuckwit.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:28 PM

Ding! Ding! Ding!.......I think we have a winner.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:31 PM

Now that's funny. Far far far from the truth but funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:42 PM

Dave, you were addressing Mick and I surely ain't Mick, but hope you don't mind if I chime in. In the example you offered, it seems to me you are asking that apples be compared to oranges. And maybe avocados as I am not entirely certain what "twat" refers to in the UK.

Fyi,in the USA twat is generally used as a dehumanizing, objectifying term -it derogatorily refers to a woman's vagina. While I have my limits I don't get too hung up about folks being entirely PC in the language they use, I simply note what it continues to reflect in our unconscious culture that always includes biases. Just noting that any term employed and applied to insult another person also is likely to reflect an unconscious bias about whole classes of people.

Re your question, I would disagree with both of and not uphold either viewpoint, but it would still be about addressing apples and oranges. I strongly disagree with the the particular beliefs of person A. I also strongly disagree with the belief of person B that because some one holds some beliefs to which I strongly object that I am qualified to pass judgement on the human value of that person or to assume that those beliefs sum up the entire person.

Think about the difference between "that is a foolish idea" and "You are a fool."

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:06 PM

To bray od nof to bray?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:06 PM

'Think about the difference between "that is a foolish idea" and "You are a fool."'

Some folks have that trifecta wrapped up.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:09 PM

Oops
to bray, or not to bray, that is the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:04 PM

If you want an example of decent discussion, go to the "BS: Shh.. Don't let them hear you.. " thread and begin reading with Joe Offer's post of 03 April at 04:19 AM. Note how Joe, for,the most part, responds with respect and attempts to keep the discussion on the issues at hand. He does it despite the provocations laid out. If you want an example of decent discussion, go to the "BS: Shh.. Don't let them hear you.. " thread and begin reading with Joe Offer's post of 03 April at 04:19 AM. Note how Joe, for,the most part, responds with respect and attempts to keep the discussion on the issues at hand. He does it despite the provocations laid out. Note how certain provocateurs continue to try and make it about people instead of ideas. I agree with Joe, for example, about ake. I think he is as wrong as he can be with his views on homosexuality, but he tries to express them based on his belief system. I agree with Joe, for example, about ake. I think he is as wrong as he can be with his views on homosexuality, but he tries to express them based on his belief system.

*yawn*

Well, you see, respectful Big Mick, you start a thread that invites people to consider which of those among us might be "Pricks". So you want to make people more respectful by being disrespectful, huh? Your "respectful" mate Joe has suggested that I and several others should resort to shrinks (because we rattle him when we express disagreement with his somewhat deluded notions, not the least of which is his support for an out-and-out science-denying creationist). In this latest post you are supporting a rabid homophobe because you think he's being honest. Cor, that's all right then! Yet, in all this thread, neither you nor your supposed allies have had the balls to name names. Well I challenge you once and for all to name names. But be careful, old boy, because some of the names I suspect you might want to name would be very sorely misrepresented by your statement "Note how certain provocateurs continue to try and make it about people instead of ideas." Yes we attack people but we attack people who come here and drag the place down with their thoroughly nasty ideas. You only have to look at some of the people here that you're giving succour to in this thread to make you, I hope, feel rather uncomfortable about what you appear to be trying to do. You are bollocking right-minded people who call very nasty people names yet defending people with very nasty ideas. Hmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:26 PM

Nice try, Steve. Keep practicing and you might one day make it into the big leagues. But to do so, you will have to stop making assertions out of context, such as you did about Joe Offer and the creationist.

Does the term "dismissive" mean anything to you. You certainly are good at it with folks you disagree with.

Keep it up and you will have to adjust your hat size up a notch.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:34 PM

is the asshat a donkeys head hat, like in A Midsummer Night's Dream, or is it a hat consisting of a bum, or is it a dunce's cap......?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:34 PM

Yet, in all this thread, neither you nor your supposed allies have had the balls to name names.

Steve Shaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:40 PM

Yeah but Wacko, you haven't even got any balls to begin with.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:46 PM

But to do so, you will have to stop making assertions out of context, such as you did about Joe Offer and the creationist.

Christ on a bloody bike, if you're a member of the Big League then I'll stay where I am, thanks. You start a thread that would be unworthy even of a Wacko and you start coming the high and mighty? As for the quoted remark here, I have taken absolutely nothing out of context. Joe's gentle defence of pete is all over recent threads. The only way you'll prove me wrong on that is to rush back and do what you mods do best: a nice bit of selective deleting when things get hot.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:47 PM

"If the asshat fits, put it on" seems like good sauce here, Steve. And if you think I am uncomfortable, it only shows that you know little of me.

While you are searching out "dismissive" you might also consider looking up "self examination". You aren't, by any chance, a proctologist are you? It would make the latter a matter of "physician, heal thyself." Oh dear ..... I have resorted to making a joke at your expense. I probably won't post for a while, have to go to confession.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:54 PM

Yeah, you do that, big league big boy. And don't forget to tell Father how you think you can get people to be respectful by being disrespectful! But do keep it up. Your patina is wearing off. At least I haven't got one to begin with.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:55 PM

If the thread is unworthy of a wacko, in your estimation, then the fact that you are all over speaks volumes about you. I rest my case, your honor.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: BrendanB
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:22 PM

Right then, Steve Shaw only attacks people who manifest nasty ideas, or so he says. Well, I do not believe that I have promulgated a single nasty idea in any posting I have made to this site but he has certainly attacked me. I loathe homophobia, I find creationism to be irrational nonsense and I am blessed with friends both gay and straight, believers and non-believers and various points in between. It is true that I am a practising Catholic but that is my business, no-one else's. One friend in particular is an avowed atheist and delights in trying to wind me up but we never feel the need to hurl abuse at each other. He's a good man and his humanity means more to me than any belief he holds.
According to his oft stated protestations Steve Shaw is never rattled by other posters but is successful in rattling them. How does he know? Surely he can only draw that conclusion by their responses. By the same token I have no doubt that he gets severely rattled. In fact, his last response to me was extremely offensive. Unfortunately, it was removed (I imagine because it was deemed unacceptable, but I had no hand in that decision). I fear he doth protest too much.
Joe Offer has never said that he accepts creationism or homophobia, quite the reverse, but he has said he respects the way in which certain people present their views. For the record, I have tremendous respect for Joe Offer, he demonstrates a compassion and courtesy that is in short supply on this site and I believe that his approach is far more likely to impact on others than Steve Shaw's permanent subtext of 'I'm right, I'm right and you're stupid'.
While I am at it, I regret Musket's occasional lapses into obscenity and ad hominem attacks but I respect his position on pretty much everything he addresses. He comes across to me as a well-informed, thoughtful man. I have enjoyed every one of Jack Blandiver's posts - how could you not? I suspect I would greatly enjoy meeting him.
Finally, coming back to the unlovely Shaw, I note that he has vaunted his professional credentials on more than one occasion. I came across several inspectors in my 38 year career in education, most of them were neither use nor ornament and it was generally held that they were failed teachers. This may be a vile calumny but I would never have employed one in any of my schools. Yes, I know it's a cheap shot but I just thought I would find out what it's like down in The SS sewer.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:32 PM

Besides that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:37 PM

Well, BrendanB, that reasoned and civil rebuke of Mr. Shaw has permanently banned you from membership in the Black Belt Obstreperous Pricks Club.

And spot on......

Mick

PS: I agree on Musket. He is a fella I would like to meet, fascinating takes on things.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 06:09 PM

"And, there was the one about the preacher who was converted by his own sermon."

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 06:20 PM

Poor old Christian Brendan! I note your recourse to deleted stuff that we can't check (and which I can't even remember) as evidence of your victimisation. Well we can all do that. Your post, in its final remarks, is as nasty as thing as I've ever posted meself, if not even nastier. And I know that my fellow Messiah, if he can muster the energy to read this tedious stuff, will resist the urge to cash delightfully in on this joint attempt by yerself and Big DMick to, er, divide 'n' rule. But good luck to ye in that endeavour!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 06:50 PM

"Messiah"? You reveal more and more of your view of yourself and your real problem every time you post. Why didn't you just say that you suffer from Messiah envy? I would have happily started a thread on how praising you would save us all.

No more time to waste on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 07:50 PM

"No more time to waste on me" you lying, non-obstreperous non-prick (hey, non-prick: I like it!)?? You posted this at 6.50, telling me you have no more time to waste on me, then you post another load of shite to me eleven minutes later on another thread! You can't resist it! You're a dyed-in-the-wool Wacko-ite! Go on, Mick babe, delete it and prove me wrong! Hurry up, the world is reading you! Bwahahaha!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 08:19 PM

Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:40 PM

Yeah but Wacko, you haven't even got any balls to begin with. <<<

The obstreperousness is annoying, the stupidity, hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 08:35 PM

Why, I'm glad I cheered you up so, Wackers. Nighty night.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 08:53 PM

as shylock said in the merchant of Vienna, your asshats are all in supposition....

and I think we can all take a lesson from that.

in the meantime - by your fruits ye shall be known - are you going to buy my download - or are you content to see a fellow mudcatter fall into the slough of despond....?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:14 PM

I need a link, Al. Always happy to help out.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:32 PM

Link above the line, Mick. I have a couple of Al's CD's. Off the beaten path, and quite wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 03:02 AM

Keep this up and some of us would by the logic of argument have to apologise for stridently standing up to homophobia and bigotry.





Ain't going to happen.

I don't have to answer for my sins. Not having any beliefs or religious club membership , I don't have sins to answer for.

I stand by my vitriol towards hatred and in my attempts to handle reality rather than principle, will always, always, always shout it down and expose it where I see it.

By the way Jack. A bloke posted on a website a "fact" that a pub refused to serve soldiers in order not to offend Muslims. He was up on front of a judge for inflammatory lies in order to invite hatred. Free speech can go as far as opinion. The "shouting Fire! in a crowded theatre" example has been given already in this thread.

People can have all the opinions they wish but to print lies about a section of community in order to vilify them isn't "old fashioned," it is wrong.

You can make all the excuses you wish but whilst I would accept opinion and old men struggling to come to terms with a better society than they were born into, they have no right in perpetuating ancient wrongs.

I might be giving the worm more respect than some of his defenders in that I am accepting his words rather than protecting his mental state.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:55 AM

"And maybe avocados as I am not entirely certain what "twat" refers to in the UK."

I wouldn't get too hung up on the use of the word "twat". Although an insult it has other meanings too:

1) As an insult: "It's your round, you daft twat"

2) A lady's whotsit.

3) To get drunk: "I would have stayed for last orders but the soddin' vicar was twatted again and started singing "Jesus I have Promised" in the bogs again"

4) To hit someone: "He went on and on about MU winning the champions league last year so I twitted him".

Lovely!

Shakespeare would have loved this fine contribution to our language:

Profanisaurus

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:01 AM

Thanks, Janie. It is pretty much the answer I would have expected from any reasonable person but I would still like to hear it from Mick. You see, I actually agree that neither viewpoint is right. I believe they should both be deleted or, at least, treated in the same way. Even oranges, apples and avocados all have something in common. But this does not seem to be happening here at Mudcat. Person A is being defended all the time while person B has threads like this created about them. By a moderator. Just seems a bit unfair to be but, hey, life's like that sometimes. I can but live in hope.

Cheers

DrG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:07 AM

When I was at school, we used to say that twat meant pregnant goldfish. I doubt it was just our school?

When I let my dog out for his final run up the garden at night I invariably invite him to look for pussy cats and twat 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:30 AM

"This includes bullying. The examples of gang bullying among a certain group here are disgusting."

If I may make a point here, it seems to me that in any situation where somebody takes a stance which is unacceptable to the majority, there will be numerous posters decrying that stance.

To you those posters are a gang engaged in bullying the poor fellow whose opinions are responsible for the reaction.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining how twenty or so people could disagree with (for example) a bigot, without setting off your "Bully" alarm?

I might not like Musket's method of posting, but if I happen to agree with the point he is making, I may post saying so. This IMHO doesn't make me a part of a bullying gang.

Your mileage may differ.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:35 AM

"I agree with Joe, for example, about ake. I think he is as wrong as he can be with his views on homosexuality, but he tries to express them based on his belief system."

With respect Mick, you could say the same about Pol Pot's opinions of intellectuals (which he defined as "anyone who carried a pen"), and look what followed from that.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:42 AM

One of the problems with this thread is that some of those (I infer) being assessed by the membership committee are so very often right. Steve Shaw, Greg F, to take two examples. Even Mither when he forgets to be a bourgeois capitalist twat and member of the oppressor class.

Those who ought to be so assessed are apparently not being assessed. The proponents of irrationality and bigotry. Maybe they should have to have an invasive test for an unpleasant condition before being admitted. Examples would be Fugitive From Sanity, pete, Akenhateon, Keith the Weekend Warrior, and most of the time Jerk the Sailor.

It is far more important to censure (not censor, censure) unpleasant beliefs than unpleasant language.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:44 AM

Your post about bullying is spot on, troubadour. I have seen it happen over and over on here. Someone posts something controversial, ignorant or just plain stupid. A number of like minded people say what they think of it and the original poster then cries bully! They then try to become the hard done by victim and, for some reason, others seem to fall for it. I think it is the passive/aggressive thing that has been mentioned but I would rather not indulge in armchair psychiatry.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:59 AM

I'll happily oppress solicitors ....   Remember that Simpsons where a solicitor says, horrified, can you imagine a world without solicitors? Homer then has a thought bubble of people laughing, skipping, picking flowers and being nice to each other.

Capitalist twat I am then eh? ;-)

I'll let you into a secret Troubador, I don't like my method of posting either. I feel dirty just thinking about bigots. But they aren't going to keep their odious views to themselves whilst fools defend their right to inflict their odious hate on an unsuspecting decent public.

No surrender. My credibility and wanting to be liked takes second place I'm afraid.

By the way Bridge. Can you have a go at that nasty multinational conglomerate Apple on my behalf? When you type censure, the fucking iPad turns it into censor. If I read what I type, I'd be as daft as you...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:02 AM

Oh shit. A borgeouis capitalist twat and an i-sheep as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:19 AM

Why give it to Microsoft? They only blow it on curing hunger and disease.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:36 AM

"controversial, ignorant or just plain stupid"

Do you really equate "controversial", with either "ignorant or just plain stupid."

I agree my views may be controversial on this forum, but I can assure you, that neither I nor my views are ignorant or just plain stupid.

I research and construct reasoned arguments from published facts to support my views, you on the other hand, seem to have absorbed very little information on the subject.

Sloganising on "equality" or "liberalism", do not cut the mustard as far as reasoned debate is concerned, as both are subject to personal definition.
You yourself, have said on this forum, that anyone who thinks there is equality in this society must be deranged.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Stu
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:47 AM

Apple just turned my 'twatted' into 'twitted' which was rather charming I thought.

I'm not convinced the OP has read all the posts in the threads he takes such exception to, so you have to wonder if this whole thread is not an exercise in trolling itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:55 AM

Do you really equate "controversial", with either "ignorant or just plain stupid."

Of course I don't. Why would I? The three things are completely separate but each one of them can produce the same reaction.

you on the other hand, seem to have absorbed very little information on the subject.

Personal attack rather than a 'reasoned argument from published fact'? Tsk, tsk, ake. I suspect you could be on Micks list already.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 07:12 AM

I can assure you, that neither I nor my views are ignorant or just plain stupid.

Heheheh. In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 07:55 AM

How would one classify cherry picking, distorting (or extending) statistics, beyond their logical reach to make a point.

That would not be ignorant, a bit stupid (but, not closely meeting the definition). However, it could be somewhat controversial, but not to a high degree. "Intentionally deceptive" may take if too far. Possibly just being deceptive may be closest.

What would be the purpose of such a dogged plight is puzzling? Converting the unconvertable seems problematic. Converting the innocent observer may be a possibility. Practice for a greater goal or field oc encounter, could also rate.

Obviously there is some personal satisfaction/reinforcement gained from doing so, in a somewhat small music-focused website, versus participating in a broader, more enlightened, and possibly more hostile, web or other environment.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:16 AM

thankyou to those of you who bought the upload.

many thanks. pm me with your address if you would like a free copy of my album st peter and john Dillinger. an offer exclusive to mudcatters who I've heard of.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:20 AM

Why should having controversial views make one deserving of abusive responses?

You seem to think the responses and cursing we see here is deserved?
You do not make any effort to censure them, in fact you have in the past joined in.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:20 AM

are we to take it that no one in the entire continent of America has bothered to visualise one of these asshats?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:25 AM

some best qualities 

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:58 AM

Hitler had controversial views too. He demonised sections of society to blame for what he saw as wrong. Funnily enough, gays and liberals were on his shit list. I recall your views on gypsies for that matter...

Your views are not controversial. They are demeaning and abhorrent. They see decent normal people as second class citizens. You point to a large section of society and say they don't believe in love and that they all have multiple partners, even the ones who are married to each other. You refuse to accept they can marry, and use "marriage" rather than marriage to describe an act that is as normal as your own marriage. You suggest they report for invasive medical testing three times a year whilst having nothing to say about people at risk of HIV. You say there aren't many where you live, so why the fuss? You call equality a liberal plot.

That isn't controversy. That is personality disorder.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 10:07 AM

N.B. "I might not like Musket's method of posting,"

To tell the truth, I was simply making a point.

I quite enjoy the no nonsense integrity of your posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 10:10 AM

Thanks. Fair comment, but my point still stands. It is sad to have to deal with nasty elements at all. I much prefer trying to have a laugh. Not so many threads where you can do that now. If you do, the children hunt you down and stalk you.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 10:16 AM

Why should having controversial views make one deserving of abusive responses?

Saying that Kate Bush is a better singer than Kate Rusby is controversial.

Saying that homosexuals are perverts is abhorrent.

Can you not see the difference? And, yes, anyone saying the latter gets all they deserve.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 11:32 AM

I think I might point out that the term "marriage" (as distinct from ""narriage"") is a word that refers to a legal status. Laws are either part of the common law, or of statute. In either case they are man-made. They are made in the first case by commonality of usage and judicial determination and in the second by the statutory method of the jurisdiction in question. Few jurisdictions recognise theistic decision as to what is and what is not a statute, and none that recognise the concept of "the rule of law".

The doctrine of parliamentary supremacy requires that statute controls the common law. In principle the courts determine, not make, law. In the US the Supreme Court may strike down statute, but that is because of the existence of a formalised constitution which is a sort of superstatute (although, alas, the SCOTUS has become a curious body that in part is a legal body truly determining the meaning of that formal constitution and in part a party political campaigning body, not a court at all except in the sense of a kangaroo court and certainly not a court of justice).

It follows that the word marriage means, as a matter of law, what the courts say it does and that is what Parliament says. To suggest that it my mean something else is quite simply ignorant. But we knew that about Akenhateon anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 11:46 AM

I hate to interrupt an otherwise convivial thread, but needs must.

Are you people aware that pickled bums were a big seller and so too pet rocks? Marketing will be tough on this one, though. Hell, cans of Newfoundland Fog sold themselves. I think the hangup is going to be with the word obstreperous. Gentlemen, allow me to suggest the following name change:

First Dan Assholes' Club, Ladies Welcome

Just a few thoughs, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 12:15 PM

Interesting Bridge. I had read about it being a legal contract and therefore nothing whatsoever to do with religion. That churches can be licensed to witness the contract is no different to any other place now that you can be married on the Big Dipper at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. I don't see Blackpool Corporation dictating what marriage is or isn't.

Thanks for the opinion. Hopefully it was posted pro bono? I spent my beer money for this week.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 12:17 PM

That's all right, Mither, I am not allowed alcomahol this week.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 12:24 PM

beer money gone - didn't you realise we only talk to because you told us you were a millionaire.....

Richard and I have been planning to touch you for a few quid. nothing much...a lowden guitar each would do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:24 PM

I know two people who have recently got F35 Lowdens. Very nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:53 PM

Is that a Lowden?

Well, it's not very quiet!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: BrendanB
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 02:16 PM

I believe it was Arthur Koestler who coined the neologism 'mimophant'. He used it to describe those people who are excessively sensitive to criticism of themselves, reacting like the tender mimosa, but are utterly insensitive and indifferent to the feelings of others, like a raging elephant.

In his last post addressed to me Steve Shaw referred to me as 'Christian Brendan'. Why? My belief or non-belief was not and is not an issue. As I have said before my faith is my business and I am not interested in pushing it on anybody. I do not refer to or categorise other people by their beliefs. They are a non-issue for me. Homophobia, racism, religious fundamentalism, sexism, anti-semitism (not a comprehensive list) they are issues to be challenged. People's faith, or lack of it, is of no interest to me at all.
I am not interested in bullying anyone but nor am I prepared to be bullied - and if anyone thinks that calling me Christian is somehow demeaning they are deluding themselves, and it wouldn't be the first time.s

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: BrendanB
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 02:34 PM

Where the hell did that 's' come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 03:26 PM

"Where the hell did that 's' come from?"

Beats me, but just yesterday I saw people are looking for one on a physics site.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:19 PM

As I have said before my faith is my business

Really? So how come I know you're a Christian, Brendan? Only asking...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:24 PM

Your views are not controversial. They are demeaning and abhorrent.

Absolutely brilliant. There's nothing more laughable (except that it usually isn't funny) about some prejudiced bastard claiming validity for his views because they're "controversial". I'll be nicking that one, Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: BrendanB
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:32 PM

'Really, so how come I know your a Christian?'

Because I have no desire to hide anything. But the fact that I explain my belief to illustrate a point does not make it the thing that defines me. You still have not explained why you sought to make it an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:34 PM

I haven't. You have.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: BrendanB
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:47 PM

I haven't. You have'.

Pillock.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:48 PM

Bugger Lowden. Blew my piggy bank on a Gretsch a few weeks ago.

Still automatically pick up the Rainsong when leaving the house though.

Anyway, you both live down south. I'm just a poor Northerner.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:48 PM

Rather unchristian of you, Brendan!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:52 PM

"Spiritual fulfillment doesn't have to mean belief in a religion or disbelief in science. ... Whether one believes in an unseen, all-knowing force, or the wonder of science and the universe, or simply the beauty of the human spirit, nearly every one of feels an inner longing to feel part of something bigger than ourselves." 
― Cesar Millan

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:02 PM

Spiritual fulfillment doesn't have to mean belief in a religion or disbelief in science.

Doesn't HAVE to, but for a significant percentage of the population it obviously DOES.

All hail wilfull ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:05 PM

Most of my spirits come from Speyside.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:14 PM

Ya got somethin' against Islay, then?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:39 PM

Ya got somethin' against Islay, then?

Yea. I'd rather my whisky did not taste like a cough cure.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:46 PM

Most of my whisky comes from Skye. Or Islay.

If Isla St Clair married Barry White, divorced him, then married Bryan Ferry, would she be Isla White-Ferry?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:44 PM

"Anyone who thinks sitting in church can make you a Christian must also think that sitting in a garage can make you a car."
― Garrison Keillor

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 01:13 AM

Or typing bollocks makes you a philosopher.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 08:23 AM

Bugger Lowden. Blew my piggy bank on a Gretsch a few weeks ago.

I'll keep my Lowden, but I noticed Strings Direct have an orange Gretsch Eddie Cochran Signature on their website - if I was still in the R&R band, I'd have that little beauty!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:02 AM

good to have you back on the staff johnny. we were just deciding which guitar millionaire musket ought to buy us before we let him play with us....

as you've already got a lowden or two, I think maybe you ought to go for a classic Gibson.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:22 AM

Never been away Al. I lurk. I laugh. I move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:57 AM

From: GUEST,Musket - PM
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 01:13 AM

Or typing bollocks makes you a philosopher.

You must be the whole fracking philosophy department.

Musket and his mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 01:19 PM

When Musket becomes a millionaire he promises to buy a cheap guitar from Argos and hand it over to whassisname at Dave Mann music in Nottingham and say money no object , I want it to sound like a Fylde.

In the meantime, the black beauty gets taken out all the time.

I'll buy Al a new guitar and Bridge a new armchair. Backwoodsman gets bugger allypoos for keeping quiet. I'll buy a pulping mill for Jack to go with his book.

The snag being I have to become a millionaire first. What with gravy bones for the dog and French horn polish for Mrs Musket, not to mention my beer fund, I'll never become a millionaire at this rate. If they're not careful, I'll stop being a dirty rotten stinking capitalist. I reckon the only ex miner to become a millionaire was Scargill.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 03:26 PM

I'll buy a pulping mill for Jack to go with his book.

I'm afraid all the unsold unwritten copies will end up a kindling for Internet flames.

It about all I am capable of today with this durned carpal thingie.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 04:22 PM

There's usually light at the end of that particular tunnel. Everyone I know who has had it seen to reckons it was sorted.

I thought I had it myself but turned out to be vibration white finger. As an ex miner who then went on to design and sell vibration equipment, not surprised.

Dunno about kindling. The pulper may not be needed. Kindle and all that.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 06:49 PM

300!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 06:52 PM

You think the name "Kindle" is coincidence? Why do you think its called Kindle Fire?

The NRA signature American models have a built in propane torch.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:59 PM

Vibration. Snigger.
When I rule the world, I'll make Mither a socialist.
How apt his specialism is.

Speaking of pricks and discrimination, I've only just discovered TERF feminism. Fuck a duck.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 01:47 AM

Musket wants to be a millionaire.

Bridge wants to rule the world.





I paused at this point. Buggered if I knew how to cone up with a moral to that one.....

I'll let you into a secret Bridge. It's all perspective. I have been " accused" of being a socialist on these pages before. I'm as comfortable with that as I am dirty rotten stinking capitalist.

Any chance of meeting me half way and making sure I am a champagne socialist?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 06:59 AM

Come...   Not cone you useless lump of Chinese junk with "Designed in California" on the box. I happen to know it was a Scottish bugger who designed you and you are lucky you aren't covered in batter and served with better chips than the ones that control your auto correct function.

WHICH by the way I keep turning off and you keep turning back on again. How do you do that?

Sorry. As I said before, iPad for sale.

Gosh Jack. I never made the Amazonian mental leap! True what they say about irony and the barrier of the pond....

Yes Bridge. This capitalist lackey made his pile flogging vibrators. Hence I'm so good at dealing with cunts. Or more accurately, separating wheat from chaff.....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 09:40 AM

Vibration... hmmm....the iPhone vibrates. Does the iPad? I'd advise you to try "text to speech", but I would not advise you to say allowed what you say on this forum within earshot of a policeperson or a mental health authority of any kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 10:05 AM

I blame my iPad, what's your excuse? (You are going to have to brush up your grammar if I am to sit next to you at book signings as the inspiration for the well hung hero.)

What's a policeperson? We have policemen (provide beatings in cells and fitting up of Irishmen) and policewomen (strippergrams mainly, in my experience.)



Officer...




If I had an American accent (Clapton forbid) I might have success with text to speech. They aren't very good at Derbysheer.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 11:38 AM

good with cunts....wheat from chaff.....

a cereal adulterer!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 12:02 PM

Shouldn't that be wheat from the chuff?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 12:29 PM

Chuff off

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 01:43 PM

I'm chuffed you said that :-)

Eeeee. That one little word can mean so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 02:21 PM

We have policemen (provide beatings in cells and fitting up of Irishmen) and policewomen (strippergrams mainly, in my experience.)

In Bude we have policemen and lady policemen.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: gnu
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 08:54 PM

300+ posts? That's a big load a pricks. Perhaps I should stiffen my upper and read up... on the morrow maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 09:07 PM

Lady policemen LOL!

That was no lady...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Janie
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 10:39 PM

Cligues are part and parcel of human nature. Paradoxically can be social forces for destruction or construction of community.

But what the hell do I know. I'm just a cunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 07:47 AM

Mary in the kitchen punching duff
The cheeks of her arse went chuff chuff chuff.

Well, what do you know? You are right Dave.





Sorry. Has the thread moved on?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 09:00 AM

sort of moved laterally...from a prick club.....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 09:25 AM

No names were mentioned so the BBOP's would self identify. Mission accomplished, time to move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 09:26 AM

Most of MY spirits come from Campbelltown or Orkney.
re:peat... Most of MY spirits come from Campbelltown or Orkney

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 10:30 AM

No names were mentioned so the BBOP's would self identify. Mission accomplished, time to move on.

Mick, don't try BSing those who have BSd millions. :-)

Did you know I started an alternative club? With that type of comment I would extend you an invitation but you do talk sense occasionally, which I'm afraid excludes you. Keep it up though and I will see what I can do.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 11:07 AM

I will not belong to any club which will not call me a member.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 11:56 AM

Jack.

You are a member.

If I were you, I'd look up (using a real dictionary, not that Webster nonsense) the many uses of the word "member" before leaving yourself wide open.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 12:43 PM

If I were you Musket, I would give me credit for making a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 12:56 PM

I am doing. But I notice that on the wrong side of the pond, they enjoy a superfluous comment after the punch line.

Glad to be of service.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 01:34 PM

Instruction to use a dictionary with regard to the punchline, on this side of the Atlantic is quite logically taken as an indication the that punchline was not "got." We do make allowance for people whose provincial and narrowly focused culture have prevented them from appreciating finely crafted artisanal humor. We recognize that true refinement in wit cannot be truly appreciated by people in a land inhabited by Benny Hill.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: gnu
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 02:40 PM

"We recognize that true refinement in wit cannot be truly appreciated by people in a land inhabited by Benny Hill."

Obvious to me that acceptance of the inane, mundane and insane is acceptance and appreciation of all forms of wit and humourous offerings. Ya can't beat Brit wit, no matter it's form.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 02:51 PM

Yeah, I hear the American cuts had the additional stage direction

And then she fainted


We miss him terribly. Fred Scuttle inspired my approach to total quality management.

Not to mention my healthy fascination with breasts.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 03:04 PM

Some men prefer slim legs. Some prefer more well-filled-out ones. Personally I prefer something in between. With reference to Mither's speciality in vibrations.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 03:05 PM

Mary in the kitchen punching duff
The cheeks of her arse went chuff chuff chuff.

Owd Mother Riley had a fat pig
The cheeks of its arse went jig-a-jig-jig.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 03:13 PM

Mission accomplished, time to move on.

Hahaha, nowt like the embarrassed thread starter wot wishes he hadn't bothered. Tough shit, Mickeyboy. Pandora's box opened. Genie out of lamp. As you sow so shall you reap. That's BS threads for you. You've even spawned a secondary thread! Don't you ever follow Wacko's misfortunes? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 04:06 PM

By their obstreperousness they shall be known.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 04:41 PM

Indeed Bobad in deed.

Bridge, grudging admiration sent your way. That was funny and well timed.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 06:58 PM

Well timed, yet, as ever, vacuous. Takes a guy like you to recognise it, Wacko.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 06:59 PM

Which was a reference to BooBooBear, not Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 07:35 PM

Like I said.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 03:12 AM

Aye Bridge. You do have to be careful when you notice hair around your lips from a vibratory aspect. You don't want to be knocking your fillings out eh?

Mind you, respect where due. For someone with actual hair around your lips you haven't been talking like one recently. That armchair getting too comfortable? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 06:45 AM

hair around the lips....you know I have never thought of Richard in that way!

so poetic and sensual!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 07:40 AM

Al, you go from the observational to the frankly disturbing. That is not an image to have in your head whilst trying to go to sleep.....

Sensual. Does it mean the same in Dorset as it used to when I used Weymouth as a stamping ground?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 01:29 PM

The slurry with a whinge on the top? Yup.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: olddude
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 03:51 PM

I have several black belts and still hate green jello gosh mick that's mean jello

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 05:47 PM

Steve, you are so desperate it is comical. Please keep posting, as you are making my case. By the way, the opening post indicated I would not name folks publicly. Learn to read for comprehension, padawan learner.

As I said, I knew the BBOP's would fly into the flame. You might want to go read A post in the Dick Miles thread. I think it was by Vic Smith. He describes the Brit folk scene, and it's members that are still here pretty well.

Rant on, young fella, rant on.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 02:16 AM

Describes ?

Vic Smith has never been to my local club.

Or the one I was at the other night.

Or very unlikely the one I was at one winter's night in 1980.

You get my drift.

If we are to stereotype, The Simpsons would only be the start. The police sergeant in the Roger Moore James Bond films? Easy.

Wait till you see me stereotype......

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 07:53 AM

I believe Vic is a British fella, Musket. I didn't take his post to be stereotyping, but rather generalization. His point mirrored my feelings on the British folkies I have met. Overwhelmingly friendly and welcoming with a small core of OP's, and a few BBOP's. Very similar to the US scene. But unfortunately they seem to hang around here and are just nasty. For what it's worth, and this is a sincere remark, I don't find you to be in that group. I don't always agree with your take on things, but it is always well thought out and often very witty. But the arrogant, self important prigs who attack just to prove to themselves how important and wise they are, well, I just tire of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:00 AM

I think it is pretty much like I said further up, in answer to Noreen I think, about a very small minority.

Just look at the number of posts on here and the number you would consider obstreperous. The number must be tiny, as must be the number of posters you deem to be "arrogant, self important prigs who attack just to prove to themselves how important and wise they are".

Storm in a tea cup. It is no worse now than it ever has been and I still think this post was ill advised and, quite possibly, trolling.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:02 AM

Sorry - wrong terminology above. "this post was ill advised" should be "this thread was ill advised"

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Musket
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:15 AM

I must admit, it is a bit rich when someone comes out with lies andoutrageous statements about people, but you are "proving how important you are" by challenging opinions that have no place in decent society.

I must come over as in that group to some though, although I am not apologising for it. Some people bring the worst out in me. I'd much rather have a lsugh, but how can you have a laugh and joke with people you would turn your back on in the real world?

That's why I told Keith A Hole of Hertford I was fucking important. That he took me at face value was wonderful......

Incidentally, yes. The UK folk scene is a broad church. Although leaving home at night to drink beer and enjoy yourself is a good start to any personality.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 09:42 AM

The thread was started on April 1, 2014 at 10:44 in the morning.

Does anyone still use a glass slide for guitar?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 06:25 PM

Mither - just stay off capitalism and you may yet prove human. You however need a larger dose of egalitarianism.

Damn. I now need to read GSS's thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:24 PM

I believe Vic is a British fella, Musket. I didn't take his post to be stereotyping, but rather generalization. His point mirrored my feelings on the British folkies I have met. Overwhelmingly friendly and welcoming with a small core of OP's, and a few BBOP's. Very similar to the US scene. But unfortunately they seem to hang around here and are just nasty. For what it's worth, and this is a sincere remark, I don't find you to be in that group. I don't always agree with your take on things, but it is always well thought out and often very witty. But the arrogant, self important prigs who attack just to prove to themselves how important and wise they are, well, I just tire of them.

If you tire of them, mickeyboy, just don't post about them. To do otherwise is just madness. Frankly, dear fellow, you are a bit of a Johnny-come-lately in these threads (in spite of your avowed longevity on the forum - big deal), always demonstrating that you have just dipped in a minute ago and are absolutely not up to speed on anything being discussed. Now here you have a forum full of racists, homophobes, bigots, creationist tosspots, revisionists and utter wankers (Jack shall remain nameless). I suggest you turn your attention to them instead of stalking me, if you are really serious about improving this forum (which you are not). As if I bloody care, you tosser.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 02:28 AM

But Bridge.... If I stay off capitalism, I would have to revert to a champagne of a lesser vintage. The stuff we quaff is far too good for proles.

Are you still interested in those BSkyB shares? They will cost you about 23% more than when I first thought of getting rid mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:48 AM

steve - don't be nasty to mick. he has not been well, and he can do without the stress of being abused on a site where he many friends -and quite rightly looks to us for support.

if he thinks some of us are black belt ,third dan pricks - he's probably right.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:22 AM

I didn't know he's not been well (how would I?), but, frankly, he appears to be singling me out rather too much recently. First SRS, then him. If anyone thinks I'm the worst poster on here, I feel sorry for 'em in view of some of the prejudiced and ignorant garbage we get. All I really tend to do, most of the time, is bite back. Diplomacy is not my middle name and I intend to keep it that way. In deference to what you say, I'll lay off. I expect the same in return.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:37 AM

there was a thread about him not being well.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:02 AM

Well I don't read everything here. Hands up those who do. However.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM

"...he appears to be singling me out rather too much recently"

You have done an admiral job singling yourself out, no need to give the credit to Mick.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: bobad
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:16 AM

admiral s/b admirable

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:37 AM

Have a nice day yerself, tosspot.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:39 AM

Hey Steve, put down the pipe and put on your thinking cap, this requires reading for comprehension, son. I never stalked you. I didn't invite you to this thread.. I didn't ask you to post in the manner you did. To date, by design, I haven't yet mentioned you or anyone by name as BBOP's. But I did say they have self ID'ed themselves. If the shoe fit, you must have put it on.

And by the way, you post nasty, belittling shit in an arrogant manner, then you whine about being stalked. No one is stalking you, they are responding to your obnoxious attitude. My guess is you lose friends in the 3D world due to that attitude. Buck up lad, put your big boy pants on and quit whining. Either that or spend some time in reflection on why you are received poorly by decent folks trying to engage in constructive discourse.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:44 AM

Mick, ya old fart. I trust you're doing well. Hope the illnesses--a condition that seems to stalk more than a few of us--move away from you and find a new home in some thoroughly detestable anti-union people. BM

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:41 AM

And Guest/BM: take care of yerself. It's good to see you at least popping in.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:42 AM

What is that joke with the astonishingly (and agonizingly) long pun set-up that ends with "if the foo shits..."?

I figure people are volunteering themselves for membership by posting obstreperously prickish things in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 01:29 PM

Jeri, got it in one, my friend.

Murdoch, you ornery sonofagun, great to hear from you! When you going to invite me to come to a festival and play some music wit yer legendary behind?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:22 PM

Hey Steve, put down the pipe and put on your thinking cap, this requires reading for comprehension, son. I never stalked you. I didn't invite you to this thread.. I didn't ask you to post in the manner you did. To date, by design, I haven't yet mentioned you or anyone by name as BBOP's. But I did say they have self ID'ed themselves. If the shoe fit, you must have put it on.

And by the way, you post nasty, belittling shit in an arrogant manner, then you whine about being stalked. No one is stalking you, they are responding to your obnoxious attitude. My guess is you lose friends in the 3D world due to that attitude. Buck up lad, put your big boy pants on and quit whining. Either that or spend some time in reflection on why you are received poorly by decent folks trying to engage in constructive discourse.

Stalk away. If you were really interested in this forum's health, which you are not, casual thread-dipper that you clearly are, you would know that I don't give a monkey's flying fart about stalkers like you and SRS. I reiterate, pal, you have far more nasty targets than me on this board. Do some work for a change, you lazy git, read the threads instead of the headlines, and get to grips with the real bastards here.

You're basically just a shallow, big wet fart, Mick. Sorry to hear of your indisposition, truly I am. Don't let it go to your head.

Hang on though...oh, dear... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:27 PM

What is that joke with the astonishingly (and agonizingly) long pun set-up that ends with "if the foo shits..."?

I figure people are volunteering themselves for membership by posting obstreperously prickish things in this thread.

The most obstreperous thing about this whole thread, darling, emanated from the silly sod who started it. Let me remind you that the whole point of the thread was to brand a certain type of, er, anti-establishment poster as "pricks". A really fine thing to do, coming from moderators who are, presumably, supposed to be maintaining standards. Do cast out the mote.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:29 PM

Serious question. Is Steve Shaw the stupidest least self aware person EVER to post on the Internet? You can take any insult he delivers, insert his name and its perfectly valid. Does he have ANY idea that he constantly describes himself?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:35 PM

Is Steve Shaw the stupidest least self aware person EVER to post on the Internet? You can take any insult he delivers, insert his name and its perfectly valid. Does he have ANY idea that he constantly describes himself?

Cor, Wacko, that would need a massively comprehensive scientific survey. I'd be happy to contribute. Do apprise me of the starting date. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:37 PM

I am afraid that comprehension is not your strong suit.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:24 PM

Understanding plain English, as you've demonstrated here on many an occasion (as, once again, you've done here), is not your "strong suit" either. You would do well to glean the not-too-subtle difference between "comprehensive" and "comprehension" before posting and making a complete idiot of yourself. You really don't need me to do that, do you, Wackers?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:24 PM

Comprehend this.

You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Belt Obstreperous Prick Club
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:22 PM

Steve, pull yer knickers up, lad. Yer envy is showing. I think this one has run its course. Goodnight, Gracie.