Worst singing accent.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:06 PM

ewan was okay. leave him alone. wrote some nice songs. was generally nice to people. wrote a lot of plays. nice people like Ian Campbell worshipped him.

what have you got to do to be liked. some of ewan's followers were tartars for telling eberybody what the tradition was really about. but the man himself. I thought he was better than all right

he contributed to the gaiety of nations

RIP - thats what I think

Big Al Whittle

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:09 PM

Reba McEntire

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: John C.
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:41 PM

Not often we agree, weelittledrummer (unless you're being ironic, of course?). Ewan was the only hero I've ever had (don't usually bother) - he changed my life.
Do you realise that he would have been 90 this year? Doesn't time fly?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Dug
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

This song from John Dengate (tune "Marching through Georgia"

I am a little Aussie boy, I come from Cammeray
I've never travelled further than the beach at Byron Bay
But when I pick my guitar up I'm off and far away
To Tennessee via California

Guitar guitar I touch the finger board
Guitar guitar I play an opening chord
Then my accent changes from Australian strong and broad
And my tongue goes bungling through Georgia

3 more verses...

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 12:37 PM

LTS, forgot to ask before... who wrote Galway Drawl? Was it you, by any chance?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Severn
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 01:50 PM

Foreign Bluegrass bands like Druha Trava (Czech) or The Nakashima Family Band (Japan) can sound pretty bizzarre, but on the other hand, I can think of quite a few American bands, I won't name names, that don't get too much closer. Pick your (probably) local favorite.
Not that I could sound like a young Red Allen ot something if I tried.....


Severn

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:43 PM

The Galway Drawl was indeed penned by myself..... well, spawned really!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mandoleer
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:33 PM

I just thank the gods that Dick van Dyke wasn't a folk singer. Was he supposed to be a comedian or something... No, my vote in the folk world goes to someone not yet mentioned. The revered by many Dick Gaughan is a singer I would prefer to pay not to listen to. I could be wrong, but he only appears to use three vowel sounds - none of which I can describe here - which don't seem to me to be normal Scots sounds anyway. (Of English birth, I have Scottish family and am related to 'the sweetest of Scottish bards' Robert Nicoll.) Ewan McColl did have a peculiar accent, but at least he had a reasonable selection of vowels. I make no claims of superiority on my own part - as mentioned in another thread I have been used to clear pubs at closing time....

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:02 PM

Posh voices.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 11:29 PM

LTS – well done! I'm extremely impressed!

Severn's comment about foreign bluegrass bands brought back memories...

Quite a few years ago now, my folk club (Paint Creek Folklore Society, in case anyone's wondering) was involved in a cultural exchange with a Danish group in the Thisted (pronounced Tis-ted; near the city of Thy – pronounced Tu (sort of)) region of Denmark. One evening (when it was our turn to visit them), we had a sort of talent show, and one of the high points of the evening was the local Bluegrass (a.k.a. "Thygrass" (pronounced Tugrass)) group. They were great – had the music absoloutely down – but one of my favorite memories to this day is their refrain on one particular song: "And dhey laid Yessi Yaimes in his graive"....

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 02:47 AM

One area of "worst accents" which seems to have escaped criticism is " the white men sings the blues" syndrome. One of the most venerated performers of pre-war country blues is John Hammond Jr. but to me his adopted deep-south rural black accent is embarrasing.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: oldhippie
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:19 AM

The worst I've heard: A guy named Wolf Krakowski. Someone once loaned me his CD Transmigrations, and he was totally unintelligible.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: romanyman
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 02:27 PM

those folkies that think all folk or shanties must be sung through the nose, make me want to give them a packet of tunes and a tissue

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM

Interesting phenomenon in this thread. On the one hand, many are decrying singers trying to adopt an accent that they don't come by naturally (e.g., a Yank trying to use an Irish accent when singing a song from Ireland).   On the other, many are saying it's "the worst" when someone from an Asian country tries to sing a song in English and can't pronounce the "r's" or "l's" properly.
So is the consensus that you should never sing a song in another language unless & until you can sound like a native speaker? Should middle-class professionals not try to sing blues -- or maybe sing blues with all the final "g's" clearly articulated (and maybe singing "I haven't got anybody" instead of "I ain' got nobody?")

Personally, I enjoy hearing singers sing songs in various languages and dialects other than their own, if the accent fits the song. Some songs really wouldn't sound right to me without being sung in a particular dialect. (Many English Music Hall songs come to mind.) Yet I would not want to discourage all but the "natives" to perform them.

I do agree, though, that some fake accents are strange concoctions of the imagination (e.g., the "Foghorn Leghorn" US "southern" accent) rather than honest attempts to mimic or echo an authentic accent one has heard.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 02:28 AM

I have played in an Irish Folk band in NYState for about 23 years. I have never ever not once tried or intended to throw the brogue. I have always thought it a bit silly to try and sing in an accent not my own.

One day at a festival this past year a fellow I know to have come from Kerry came up to me and said, Good on you Don, you're finally startin' to get the voice."

Don

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:03 AM

"I have always thought it a bit silly to try and sing in an accent not my own."

I sang a couple of my own songs at the break during a Debra Cowan gig in our local. One of the songs is written basically in Scots dialect whilst the second just is standard English. She congratulated me when I got back to the table but asked me why I had sung the second song in an American accent. I was pretty dumfounded as I didn't think I had. Still don't but obviously she heard something. :-)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:18 AM

Dear Debra has a wry sense of humor.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,bert
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM

I can't believe that I haven't posted on this thread before.

I agree with Genie. ...I enjoy hearing singers sing songs in various languages and dialects other than their own...

If you don't try to affect an accent then you won't be able to sing songs like "Manura Manyah".

Dylan (accent wise) was bad though, but not nearly as bad as those who try to imitate him.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 06:40 PM

Don, I think there's a big difference between trying to sing "Carrickfergus" with an affected Irish accent and singing a song like "Twa Heids Are Better Than Yin" with at least some semblance of a Scots accent.   The latter is written in dialect, including some Scots words, and to me it sounds weird if sung with a midwestern US accent except for those few words (not to mention that it screws up some of the rhymes).

Same goes for some American songs, such as the part of Loretta Lynn's "Coal Miner's Daughter," where she deliberately rhymes "hard" with "tard" ("tired).

And 'ow do you do "'Enery The Eighth" without putting on something like a Cockney accent?

Just saying I think some songs, like some roles in plays, are meant to be done with an accent. If you can't do that accent perfectly, I don't think it means you shouldn't ever perform that song or role.   
And depending on who your audience is, they may or may not know the difference.

That said, I probably wouldn't go to another country and try to entertain the people there by doing their own songs.   And I'd steer clear of performing an "accent" for people for whom it was second nature.

Dick Van Dyke's accent in Mary Poppins doesn't stand out like a sore thumb to me like it does to some others because I don't hear a real Cockney accent all that often. But I wonder how many Brits can tell a New Yawk accent from a Joisey one? Or S. Carolina from Georgia from Alabama?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Patsy Warren
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:58 AM

I can't remember the artist's name but I think it was about the summer of 75 and the song was sung in the worst fake Jamaican accent, 'Whoah I'm going to Barbados'

To this day I cringe if I hear this stupid piece of pop pap.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Accents
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 08:15 AM

According to a scientific report out today all good singers, sing in an American accent, not deliberately just that if you form your words properly and phrases it will sound like that. Worst for me is the Tom Jones type fake Macho/Black accent. A dear lady in our Folk Club, sings in a very thick Birmingham accent despite not being that Brummy whewn she talks!

Desi C

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,bardan
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 09:38 AM

I think that the idea that your singing voice should sound exactly like your speaking voice doesn't always make sense because they're two different processes. Singing isn't normal- it's a performance. Singing tends just work better with purer vowel sounds, underemphasised sybillants etc if we're talking about intelligibility.

Another side of that is that in a 'by ear' context you'll probably be influenced to an extent by whoever you got the song from at least until you've been singing it a long time.   

Thirdly people don't necessarily have one accent or one strength of accent. My mum sounds almost english or at least fairly neutral to most ears cos it's been decades since she left Kerry and she's spent lots of time in non english-speaking environments. Stick her on the phone with her sisters though and you'll notice a (totally unforced) change.

I'd say the key is not to overdo/force it. If it feels fairly natural, it probably sounds fairly natural. If you start singing "last noite as oi lay drrrameing on pleasant days boi" you'll probably sound like a prat.

just my opinion mind.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Jan Burda
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:10 AM

I take it no one has heard Tom Waits.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 11:39 AM

I am a person from the middle of New York State. The idea that I would talk like a New Yorker and sing like and irishman or a Scot when I do Irish or Scottish songs seems wrong to me. That being said I will sing in a "Voice" if I am doing a comedy tune like Henry The VIII. But were I to sing "Carrickfergus" it would come out like Don Meixner singing "Carrickfergus".

Are we splitting airs but isn't singing in an accent different than singing in a dialect?

Don

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:07 PM

Hey, Old Hippie:

Thanks for a novel and humorous way of plugging my (first Yiddish) CD.

Originally self-produced and self-released (Kame'a Media 1996) it was re-issued in 2001 on Tzadik Records (and followed in 2002 by "Goyrl: Destiny," also on Tzadik Records. Got a couple of videos up on YouTube of the Lonesome Brothers and myself in performance at University of Florida (Gainesville). We're all old hippies . . .

and still rockin', baby!

Peace and Love,

Wolf Krakowski
www.kamea.com

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:44 PM

Hey, Wolf Krakowski isn't your usual Klezmer band, but I like his Transmigrations CD. Maybe I don't mind his accent, because my Yiddish is no better...Wolf, what language were you raised speaking?

Judy Bressler you ain't, Wolf. Judy Bressler gives me fantasies. I'm rather glad you don't.

-Joe-

P.S. Wolf, if you performed at Gainesville, does that mean you know John Johnson and the 24th Street Klezmer Band?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:00 AM

Hi Joe:

Yiddish is my first language; I am a native-speaker, born and partly raised in Europe. Yiddish was spoken in the home and used as the language of instruction in =kheder=. What confuses you is my particular =poylish= (Polish) DIALECT, not often heard on recordings. Only the culturally disadvantaged would make a thoughtless statement claiming that his Yiddish "is no better," but you'll have to forgive me for not having the time or space to adequately school you. That said, I have never played klezmer music in my life, but of course, you, like many others, are mistakenly under the false impression that anything Yiddish should be classified as "klezmer." NOT. Klezmer is the INSTRUMENTAL party music of East European Jews. My VOCAL repertoire is drawn from Yiddish SONG - folk, theatre and popular and re-animated as country-rock, rhythm 'n blues, reggae, etc. Not enough space to explain Judy Bressler's Yiddish, but can say it is either second (most likely third) generation American/Litvish/theatre Yiddish. Enjoy your fantasies, Joe & zaa mir gezint, Wolf. PS Read my reviews @ www.kamea.com

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:14 AM

As I suspected, Wolf, your accent has authentic roots. My training is in German, which I've spoken most of my life; and I picked up Yiddish by listening to a lot of recordings - many from singers who came from Poland and Lithuania. I think my Yiddish accent is pretty good, but probably heavily influenced by German.
But authenticity aside, I have my Judy Bressler fantasies. I love her voice, despite her New York/New England Yiddish accent.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 01:40 PM

You are correct, Don.

A DIALECT refers to REGIONAL speech and includes particularities
in GRAMMAR, VOCABULARY and ACCENT.
An ACCENT refers to PHONOLOGY, - eg. STRESS & INTONATION and SOUND PATTERNS.

In Yiddish, there are four main dialects. But there are overlaps.
People whose exposure to Yiddish is only from performance (and not family, community, education) should note that, in the Yiddish theatre, dialects were "standardized" or melded to create a workable "stage Yiddish" so that the actors would all sound like they originate from / inhabit the same place. This is the Yiddish most people find familiar.

Imagine casting a play with actors from Liverpool, Jamaica and Mississippi and allowing them all to speak in their native dialects.


Peace,

Wolf
www.kamea.com

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 02:56 PM

[[Imagine casting a play with actors from Liverpool, Jamaica and Mississippi and allowing them all to speak in their native dialects. ]]

You mean sort of like those old Hollywood epic Biblical movies where the Jews sounded like middle America, the Roman soldiers & nobility spoke with an upper-class English accent, and the Roman peasants sounded Cockney? ; D

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:24 PM

Genie:
Good point, hpwever, not the one I was hoping to make.
In those movies, the different populations were made to speak
as they did purposely to facilitate the audience's perception
of specific groups.

In attempting to elucidate the origins of stage Yiddish, I was
hoping to try and get you to picture, let's say, three brothers
(raised in the same home, etc.) being portrayed by actors with
wildly different dialects.

Peace,

Wolf
www.kamea.com

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: open mike
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:59 PM

When performing My Fair Lady in Sweden I hear that the Cockney accent is portrayed as the speech from Skane, in southern Sweden.

(i originally read the thread tittle as "worst singing accident"
which thread I will now start....)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 06:52 PM

Oh, I know why the directors (e.g., DeMille) used different accents, Guest. I just think it's interesting that they chose "The Queen's English" to represent the Romans (except for the lower-class ones) and American English to represent most of the non-Roman central characters (e.g., Ben Hur, Moses, Jason, Odysseus, etc.)


Anyway, if you guys want to hear a gawdawfully embarrasing faking of an accent and dialect, check out
Nelson Eddy singing "Shortnin' Bread."

Yeah, I know, Al Jolson and others did that sort of thing too, but I think this one takes the cake (or the sho't'nin' bread, as de case mebbe).

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 09:13 AM

Old Hippie writes BOTH that someone "loaned" him my CD and that (Heaven forfend!) he didn't buy it, but it was "gifted" to him and it was "unintelligible." He also said it "went straight into the trash." Who would do that with a loaned copy?

Here's what I think: Old Hippie got a hold of a burned copy with no cover or liner notes and Old Hippie thought I was supposed to be singing in English . . .

Transmigrations: Gilgul (Tzadik Records) is sung entirely in Yiddish.
The cover alone would have made that pretty clear, not to mention the
extensive liner notes.

Now, Old Hippie, I am waiting for you to tell us you are a fluent Yiddish-speaker and found me singing in my my native language "unintelligible." LOL.

Peace and Love,

Wolf Krakowski
www.kamea.com

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Guest, Lash LaRue
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM

(Have tried to register as a member 3 times unsuccessfully.)

Worst singing accent?
John Fogerty. A combination of Biloxi and Brooklyn:
"Big wheel keep on TOININ
Proud Mary keep on BOININ"

(Rollin', rollin', etc . . .

Lash LaRue

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 02:57 AM

Well, DK if Fogerty's 'accent' is affected or natural, but it's not all that unusual for someone (like me) who has lived all over the place to end up with a real 'mongrelized' accent. When I spent a year in Texas in my teens, I probably came away with an accent that was a little bit central Texas, a little bit remnants of Newark, and a lot of central Illinois.    Then when I later spent 3 years in Toronto, I added more than traces of that to my speech patterns.
Why not Biloxi and Brooklyn?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Lash LaRue
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 09:17 AM

Nothing "wrong" about it. It is what it is. Ya gotta admit it can be, shall we say, a tad "humorous" at times.

When I hear "unusual" pronunciations and speech patterns,
I am intrigued and try to ascertain the possible origin and/or place of raising of the speaker/singer.

Was recently stumped by my oral surgeon's curious accent. Just couldn't place it and was thinking perhaps umh, working-class Baltimore?

Turned out he as a transplanted French-Canadian from Quebec. It was his English surname that threw me.

I heard every conceivable mish-mash of accents and dialects growing up
in an area of working-class immigrants. I find the many ways English is spoken thoroughly fascinating. Listen to Willie Nelson and Toots Maytal singing "Still is Still Moving to Me" for an unusual pairing
of accents.

So, Genie - what years were you living in Tronna?

Peace,

Lash LaRue

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 06:11 PM

Early '70s. Then one summer in Montreal (where the "French" Canadians don't sound anything like the French I learned in school - LOL).

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Wolf
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 07:35 AM

I would like to apologize to Old Hippie for the posts I directed at him/her. In retrospect and upon closer inspection, the tone and choice of words I employed, while impassioned, only diminishes myself.

Thanks for your understanding.

Wolf

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM

Thanks Wolf, I appreciate the information regards dialect and accent.

Don

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Lash LaRue
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 04:26 PM

Good timing, Genie. Those were among the best years for living in Hogtown. I was there then, too; had an apartment on top of Switzer's Deli (gone) on Spadina across from the Victory Theatre (also gone).

Grossman's Tavern is still there. And, thank goodness, Kensington Market, too; most of the Jewish shopkeepers have been replaced by Jamaicans and Vietnamese. I used to see the wonderful Bob Snider busking in the doorways to keep out of the rain.

You say you had trouble understanding the French-Canadian joual spoken in Montreal? Coliss! Tabernak!

Lash LaRue

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 11:39 AM

This is from Wiki. Of course macColl's scottish accent was based on deep immersion in scottish culture....not faked.

MacColl was born as James Henry Miller in Broughton, Salford, Lancashire to Scottish parents, William Miller and Betsy Miller née Hendry. Both of his parents were socialists and William Miller was an iron-moulder and militant trade unionist who had moved to Salford with his wife to look for work after being blacklisted in almost every foundry in Scotland.[1] They lived amongst a group of émigré Scots and Jimmy, their only surviving child of four, was brought up in an atmosphere of fierce political debate interspersed with the large repertoire of songs and stories his parents had brought from Scotland.[1]

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 04:23 PM

If you want to get an idea of where MacColl's Scottish accent came from, give a listen to "A Scottish Garland" (CAMSCO 702) which consists of songs sung by Ewan MacColl an Betsy Miller (his mother). Some good stuff there.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GaryG
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 10:50 AM

Fogerty's accent has to be contrived. He grew up in El Cerrito, one town over from Berkeley, and speaks in a normal California accent. The weird accent only appears on some songs, Proud Mary, Green Rivah, Born on the Bayou, Keep on Chooglin, etc. Great music for sure.

Concerning Dylan, I think he tried to cultivate an Okie accent due to his admiration for Woody. It is a small matter considering his genius as a writer.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 11:04 AM

I have yet to hear any British or American singer do a convincing Australian accent (except Eric Bogle but he doesn't count as British any more).

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 12:32 PM

Fogerty also Hoid It T'roo de Grape Vine.
And I wanted somebody to sit on him. Hard.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:26 AM

My teeth are on edge when I hear somebody with an Australian accent singing a Scots song pronouncing the words as spelt - as in the "Twa Heids Are Better Than Yin" mentioned above - without any vestige of a Scots accent.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 06:05 AM

I'm always intrigued by the conversation at local singing sessions here in the West of Ireland when a visitor who has sung in an 'oirish' accent departs - "gently condemnatory" usually sums it up.
I doubt if they would repeat their efforts if they had remained as 'flies on the wall'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: BobKnight
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 08:30 AM

Being from Aberdeen, and having a quite distinctive accent, it amused me no end to hear an Australian singing one of my songs, written in Scots/Doric. (Doric is the Aberdeen/shire variant of Scots.)He was making quite a decent job of it too, until I coincidentally entered the room behind him and everybody started laughing.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 08:44 PM

My first trip to Ireland was about 2000. In every music venue we walked into in the West of Ireland, people were wearing cowboy hats and singing with a twang. They sounded very much like singers in the American Southwest - but singers in the U.S. Southwest don't sound very authentic, either.
-Joe-