BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

"Talking about pieces of work,Douggie, precisely what sort of exeperience did George W. Bush have besides running a baseball team into the ground?"


GregF,

For your information.....The Rangers have always sucked. Don't blame it on George.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

MOOSE HUNT

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:51 AM

You are right, Bobert. The vetting left a lot to be discovered: NYTs.

Whether her daughter should be a subject of discussion or not, their hypocrisy opens it up, imo:

Palin herself said she opposes funding sexual-education programs in Alaska.

"The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," she wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates.

McCain's position on contraceptives and teen pregnancy issues has been difficult to judge on the campaign trail, as he appears uncomfortable discussing such topics. Reporters asked the presumptive GOP presidential nominee in November 2007 whether he supported grants for sex education in the United States, whether such programs should include directions for using contraceptives and whether he supports President Bush's policy of promoting abstinence.

"Ahhh, I think I support the president's policy," McCain said.

When reporters pressed McCain whether the government should provide contraceptives or counseling on contraceptives, he replied, "You've stumped me." McCain said later that he was sure he opposed government spending on contraceptives.

And this from the prospective father:

On a MySpace page subsequently taken down, Johnston boasts, 'I'm a f - - -in' redneck' who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes. 'But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess.' 'Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ass,' he added. He also claims to be 'in a relationship,' but states, 'I don't want kids.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM

Bill,

Of course, Bush was qualified to be president... Hey, he'd stuck the taxpayers of Arlington, Texas for $164M, for which they are still payin'... What better expeerience than rippin' off taxpayers does the job require???

*g*

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:37 AM

'Todd Palin was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge.'

This is really scraping the barrel!

Hilary Rosen, a Democratic commentator, said the issue is whether Palin would try to impose her personal choices.
Rosen said Democrats should "not be cowed" from including Palin's family life in the political discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:33 AM

Another total non-issue distracting the gullible American public from the serious ones. i can not wait for this election to be over...

By the way, I am genuinely pissed that I was awakened on a Sunday morning by a pair of Baptists. Baptists! I finally got rid of the JWs and now Baptists! I am tempted tog ovisit them at about 3Am on a Wednesday to discuss Atheism.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: olddude
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:32 AM

Sorry it was her husband I stand corrected

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: olddude
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:29 AM

Just read on the web news. I guess she was arrested 22 years ago for drunk driving .. it just keeps getting better doesn't it

Palin News

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:19 AM

"The Governor of Texas, maybe?"

Karl Rove was governor of Texas... Bush merely kept the chair warm. The question can be simply removed one step...did Bush have any experience that qualified him to govern a state?


Regarding the Palin's daughter: It is sad that these days EVERYTHING seems to be grist for the mill. I think is is partially that 27 pundits, having been hired to talk incessantly, need an infinite amount of things to talk about!
It was beyond irony last night to hear the news director of MSNBC say.. 'Next, we'll examine whether Gov. Palin's daughter's pregnancy will affect the race...or should we even be TALKING about this?'

They have to have a discussion on the air over whether they SHOULD be discussing it on the air?

There are legitimate issues about whether Palin is qualified and whether she has relevant ethical problems...her daughter's situation is NOT relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:15 AM

I concur the pg shtick will win some evangelicals; but not the Abstinence Makes the Heart Grow Fonder crowd.

On the whole Palin's selection was a risky, hail Mary tactic. It gave the finger to the Karl Rove machine, which is good.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:21 AM

Washington Post:

A Typical Middle-Class Struggle

On the Palin situation: It immediately struck me that Sarah Palin was chosen as a candidate who understands middle-class family struggles, and this is a pretty typical one. On the scale of family secrets, a pregnant teen marrying her boyfriend is hardly shocking. It is personally wrenching for all involved. But, if properly handled by caring parents, it can sometimes result in the arrival of new life and a new family. And a new life is always a good and glorious thing, whatever the circumstances of his or her birth.

What does all this say about Palin herself? That she is a hypocrite? Absurd. She seems to have acted in a manner entirely consistent with her religious beliefs. (If she had urged her daughter to get an abortion, that would be hypocrisy.) That Palin is somehow unqualified for office because she couldn't "control" her own family? This is a foolish, cartoon version of Victorianism.

There are only two things that would concern me. If Palin had not informed the McCain campaign about this situation before her selection, it would mean she has poor judgment. But the McCain campaign has said it was informed. It would also disturb me if Palin had not fully discussed her decision to run for vice president with her pregnant daughter, who will now be exposed to a lot of vicious ridicule. In light of this family struggle, I hope Palin's decision to join the Republican ticket was a family decision.

Those who believe that a family situation of this sort will alienate or anger evangelicals have never actually met an evangelical. Just listen to James Dobson's Focus on the Family broadcast, or read one of his books. Responding to his evangelical listeners and readers, he addresses every imaginable family challenge, from adultery to child sexual abuse to bedwetting. Evangelical Christianity (in most modern forms) is not about the achievement of perfection, it is about the acceptance of forgiveness and healing. Nearly every evangelical knows and respects someone who has dealt with this kind of situation with dignity and with God's constant help.

And I can't imagine why Palin's family situation would alienate middle-ground women voters either. Is it really the expectation of modern women that their leaders and role models have perfect, perpetually cheerful families?

All this said, I still feel terrible for the Palins and their daughter (and the poor guy she intends to marry). The slimiest elements of the Internet culture will be after them. But Americans, I believe and trust, are more decent than this vileness.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:13 AM

I think it was a piss poor choice, so much so that It makes me question if McCain is any more fit to lead than Oh Bummer.

I really don't care who gets elected anymore. It's like a choice between McDonald's or Wendy's Both are so mediocre.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:25 AM

"Talking about pieces of work,Douggie, precisely what sort of exeperience did George W. Bush have besides running a baseball team into the ground?"


               The Governor of Texas, maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:21 AM

Keeping in mind that all the "Bushisms" were not enough to sink the Bush ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:17 AM

"Palin"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:16 AM

Also, Ebbie's point is particularly apt. Will Palen, as a loose cannon (amazingly similar to McCain himself) say enough weird things to ridicule the McCain ticket?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:10 AM

Anchorage Daily News 19 Sept 2004:    "In early September 2003, Palen said, she called Clark (Alaska Chief of Staff) for help after staffers complained Ruedrich" (fellow Republican)" was conducting party business on the job".

She resigned from the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission in January 2004 partly in protest over what she called "lack of ethics" of fellow Republican members.

This is before the start of the investigation of Ted Stevens. Therefore it appears inaccurate to state that her concern with ethics resulted from fear of the FBI investigation of Stevens.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:09 AM

Be fair Greg......He also ran several oil businesses into the ground as well!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:00 AM

For that matter what executive experience does Joe Biden have?
DougR


Talking about pieces of work,Douggie, precisely what sort of exeperience did George W. Bush have besides running a baseball team into the ground?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:47 AM

Kinda' reminded here of Tom Eagleton. McGovern could never recover from that unwise choice and Eagleton had a lot more going for him then Sarah Palin.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:42 AM

"the very thing..."

Source--and direct quotes, please. Let's try to change the balance in political threads to more facts and fewer smears--even directed at politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:34 AM

Well it looks like wait we will. Now there is Hurricane Hanna, and right behind that Tropical Storm Ike. It would be kind of ironic, though, if Ike blows in and saves the Republican convention at the last minute.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:31 AM

"they do have tapes of her doing the very thing..."---source, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:16 AM

Word on the street is that McCain has folks back in Alaska "re-vetting" Palin... Man, I thought that was supposed to be done before hand???

Kinda plays nicely into Obama's charges that McCain has some major problems with judegment...

Oughtta be interesting to watch the Repub PR spinsters try to make chicken salad out of what is beginnin' to look like chicken sh*t...
I can hardly wait for that spin...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: irishenglish
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 06:58 AM

heric- as I pointed out, there have been TWO men up to this election who went directly from the Senate to the Presidency. pdq claimed there was only one, Kennedy, forgetting of course Warren G Harding.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 05:43 AM

The British conservative political commentator and journalist John O'Sullivan (the founder and co-chairman of the New Atlantic Initiative, an international organization dedicated to reinvigorating and expanding the Atlantic community of democracies) takes rather the opposite point of view.

The party's just starting for John McCain

It's possible to find an 'alternative' viewpoint for anything but ---it's just someone's view.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:56 AM

Senior Analyst for Jazeera in Washington does not think it was a wise choice.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:42 AM

"Here's the deal: Palin is the latest G.O.P. distraction. She's meant to shift attention away from the real issue of this campaign — the awful state of the nation after eight years of Republican rule. The Republicans are brilliant at distractions. Willie Horton was a distraction. The chatter about gays, guns and God has been a long-running distraction. And we all remember the Swift-boat campaign.

If you want a real issue, forget all of the above and revisit Monday's front page of The New York Times. Hundreds of families are being forced out of their homes each month in Louisville, Ky., because of mortgage foreclosures. With record numbers of poor and homeless students, the public schools are struggling.

The crisis has only been made worse by fiscal difficulties facing the schools. Higher energy and other costs, combined with a $43 million cut in state aid, have left the school system in a sorry state.

The reason this should be high on the presidential campaign agendas is that the problems in Louisville are widespread. As Sam Dillon of The Times reported: "As 50 million children return to classes across the nation, crippling increases in the price of fuel and food, coupled with the economic downturn, have left schools from California to Florida to Maine cutting costs."

Even as these districts are cutting back, wrote Mr. Dillon, "the number of poor and homeless children is rising."

That is the kind of substantive issue the Democrats should be focused on: how to educate America's children and improve the quality of their lives; how to bring health care to those going without; how to put America back to work.

To their credit, Senators Obama and Biden seem unwilling to jump aboard the bash-Ms.-Palin bandwagon. Both have been exceedingly mild in their comments about the Alaska governor." (NYT Ed)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 02:04 AM

Here's an interesting perspective...


Why Palin? McCain v. Rove

"Why did John McCain select Sarah Palin as his running mate? The real reason is that he made an impulsive decision to prove his independence in reaction to pressure from Karl Rove, who was lobbying for Mitt Romney, as I explain in a forum on Firedoglake.com on my new book, The Strange Death of Republican America: Chronicles of a Collapsing Party.

I explain the inside story, according to sources close to the McCain campaign:

On Palin: My information is that Karl Rove wanted Romney and pushed him. McCain pushed back. He really wanted Lieberman. That was completely out of the question. Palin is the result. One element of the Palin nomination is McCain establishing himself apart from the Bush/Rove political operation, even as his campaign manager, Steve Schmidt, is one of their creatures. From the outside, it's often hard to figure out how vicious and divided the Republicans can be with each other.

I further explain that McCain rationalized his hasty choice as an appeal to the Republican base:

On McCain and the GOP base: Conventions are real tests of party unity, as we've just seen with the Democrats. McCain still has to pass the test through his own convention. Palin, among other things, enables him to bring along the social conservatives, or it ought to do so. Once McCain receives the nomination he is freer to move to the center. He is already campaigning more as a "maverick" and behind the scenes he is in some conflict with both Bush and Rove on policy and politics. If we had a sensate political press corps they might report on these abrasions.

McCain's emergence as the GOP nominee represents the fracturing of the conservative Republican dominance of the party, shattered as a consequence of George W. Bush's radicalism. I explain the story of how the Republicans came apart in "The Strange Death of Republican America." On the ruins, McCain must attempt to piece together the broken shards. In McCain's case, the political motive has combined with the temperamental. Thus, Sarah Palin."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sidney-blumenthal/why-palin-mccain-v-rove_b_122841.html

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:31 AM

Well, the Juneau people I know well all agree that this is a most interesting - I do believe that tonight they used the term 'amusing' - election. There were six of us there and they all know the governor better than I - three of them work for the state - they are of the belief that McCain hasn't a clue as to what he has signed onto. Palin, they say, is not only short-sighted but VERY stubborn. And LOUD.

Anyone care to make a little bet about the outcome of this? BEFORE the election? lol

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 01:25 AM

Great article by Eugene Robinson...


ST. PAUL, Minn. -- Has anyone noticed that Sarah Palin's central claim to political fame is a fraud? She represents herself as a fiscal conservative who abhors pork-barrel projects and said no thanks to the "bridge to nowhere" -- a $398 million span that would have linked Ketchikan, Alaska, to its airport across the Tongass Narrows. But as mayor of Wasilla (pop. 9,780), she hired a Washington lobbyist to bring home the bacon. And just two years ago as a candidate for governor, she supported both the Ketchikan bridge and the congressional earmark that would have paid most of its cost.

I know, we're not supposed to pay attention to such inconvenient details. We're supposed to be dazzled by how unaffected she is, how plain-spoken, how "genuine."

Indeed, if you don't get hung up on her actual record, Palin simply is who she is. It's not her fault that she's a former Miss Wasilla with a campy "Northern Exposure" vibe, doctrinaire social-conservative views and no discernible qualifications for being vice president. It's undeniable that people in Alaska apparently like her well enough, though they seem to have been even more shocked than the rest of us when she was named to the Republican ticket. In any event, she's not the one who created this farcical situation.

We learned last week that John McCain is not who he is -- not, at least, who he claims to be. The steady, straight-talking, country-first statesman his campaign has been selling is a fictional character. The real McCain is either alarmingly cynical or dangerously reckless.

You will recall that McCain gave the same prime criterion for choosing a running mate that every presidential candidate gives: someone who is ready to step in as president if, heaven forbid, the need arises. Barack Obama echoed those words before picking Joe Biden, who is about as prepared as a vice presidential candidate could ever be.

You will also recall that McCain and his supporters have been lecturing us about the grave and urgent dangers our country faces -- Islamic fundamentalism, the resurgence of Russia and other geopolitical threats. In a menacing world, McCain says, he will keep America safe.

So, at 72 and with a history of cancer, how could McCain choose a vice presidential nominee who has, let's face it, zero experience in foreign affairs? Being the nominal commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard doesn't count, unless you think Vladimir Putin is about to order an invasion across the Bering Strait.

At a time when the nation also confronts enormous challenges at home, Palin has, um, slightly more than zero experience in domestic affairs. The reason most people move to Alaska is that it's different from the rest of the country. Salmon fishing and snowmobile racing are not front-page news in Ohio, Pennsylvania or Florida.

McCain's political calculation in choosing Palin is obvious. Social conservatives, who had been unexcited by his candidacy, are ecstatic that he has picked a running mate who staunchly opposes abortion, favors the teaching of "intelligent design" in the public schools and generally embraces the agenda of the religious right.

I have my doubts about the other objective of McCain's gambit: to win the votes of blue-collar women who supported Hillary Clinton. For one thing, these voters disagree sharply with Palin on most of the issues. For another, initial indications are that many women were insulted at the notion that they would automatically swoon over any candidate who happened to have two "X" chromosomes. Republicans tend to have a comically simplistic view of how "identity politics" works. They should recall how African-Americans reacted when Clarence Thomas was named to the Supreme Court.

Whatever the political impact, so much for the John McCain we thought we knew. In choosing Palin, he cynically did what his party is always accusing Democrats of doing: He selected a running mate based on her potential ability to appeal to targeted segments of the electorate, rather than for her honestly assessed ability to lead the nation should the occasion arise.

The other thing we learned about McCain is that he is willing to take an enormous gamble based on limited information. He only met Palin once before summoning her for a final interview. He realized he needed to shake up the presidential race, and that's what he did. But we are reminded, if we did not realize it before, that the three things not to expect from a McCain presidency are caution, prudence and a willingness to always put the nation's interests above his own.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/palin_pick_puts_politics_ahead.html

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:23 AM

Clearly she has energized some people here and many in the Republican base.
Her selection is a bit brilliant and a bit insane.
What she knows she will staunchly advocate but most importantly
she does not know me or millions of people like me.

The media is of course insane to put the full faith and security of the USA on one debate between her and Biden. I can tell she is a fast learner and the fact sheet she will be memorizing will be daunting for anyone. She knows about pipelines worldwide but not the people culture or history.

The experience with GWB and micro aural electronics may also be employed with good effect, yet we all know a debate performance will not show character integrity judgement and flexibility in fluid complex situations.

What I have seen is that she is not flexible in real time. She can stick to a script but going off page is dangerous except for heart felt testimony about love of family or the like.

She can effectively intimidate and insult an opponent even better than George Bush without an understanding of deeper issues and back stories.

Of course new factoids will come to light about teenage pregnancy and DWI but all will be forgiven being a God fearing Christian family.

Being chosen after one interview/meeting is extraordinary. Even Ruby Tuesday servers get 3 interviews.

Since we all know McCain is mortal she will be seen in a PResidential role. 9 VP's became President at the loss of a President and 14 VP took over the Presidency by election.

How will people choose?    Most people will remember a 8 second TV segment to base thier decision about her. We may not know her but if she makes enough people believe she knows them, then she has done her job in the campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:17 AM

For my part, I think her willingness to teach Creationism in the public schools and her denial of man's contribution to global warming are very troublesome. I don't see anything else to really dislike about the woman, though.
               I'm not sure I can get over those two.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:07 AM

I'm so greatful for McSane's choice in Flame.

It is important if she's a crusader that trying to fire her brother-in-law was not a personnal issue but so far there's been no reasonable explantion, hopefully one will show up soon.

Biden has the knowledge & experience on fergien policy & affairs that Obama may be lacking so on the job trainning isn't an issue
but it is in reverse for McSane & Flame, espically if anyone's gonna drop dead.


CaroleC:
"I guess this shows us exactly how effective just teaching abstinence is in preventing teen pregnancies."

Susu's Hubby
What a bunch of crap, CarolC.
There's no where that "just teaches abstinence"

Well, SH that's where the bulk of Bush money has been going for the past 8 yrs & Carole's dead on right, nothing beats a complete education not even the half assed one she & the republican's keep pushing. Seeing as she hasn't done to well with sex education, well, actually on education in general, I'd say that by her record as mayor
she's been abominable in the whole of that area as well.
Further more;
Just because she fails her daughter in her education (obvious by the out come, "unplanned") she should not be allowed to fail the future of the next generation like she did her own.

By her stance on eviormental issues she's either been paid for & bought or she's so undereducated about the issues that she's to far behind to catch up. Denying science, ignoring all the phyical warning signs, esepically when in her region it's all the more evident, she's so far from green that she'll have the voter's seeing red not


She's obviouslly no student of the Constitution, she should her keep her mouth shut about things she doesn't know about it makes her look stupid, as stupid as Geo, when she does say something about them, like the Pledge of Allegiance, haven't we had enough foolishness like this in the last 8 yrs, it make's the nation look like the laughing stock of the educated world.

She's so far to the right she'll be more than more of the same, she'll be for ripe for the insane. McCain dies & we'll all be in the shit house.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 12:06 AM

I'm still trying to figure out why being a "professional" senator is a bad thing, as in do we want an amateur to represent us? Not who I want in congress!

no. 1 definition of "executive:"

a person or group of persons having administrative or supervisory authority in an organization.

as an adjective, I really like this one:         

of, pertaining to, or suited for carrying out plans, duties, etc.: executive ability.

So, talking executive ablity? Obama hands-down!

From the the NYTs some other things apparently not vetted (there's lots more in the two page article. This (choosing Palin) was a real rush job!):

Ms. Palin now has a private lawyer in a legislative ethics investigation in Alaska into whether she abused her power in dismissing the state's public safety commissioner; that she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede..

While there was no sign that her formal nomination this week was in jeopardy, the questions swirling around Ms. Palin on the first day of the Republican National Convention, already disrupted by Hurricane Gustav, brought anxiety to Republicans who worried that Democrats would use the selection of Ms. Palin to question Mr. McCain's judgment and his ability to make crucial decisions.

Although The Washington Post quoted advisers to Mr. McCain on Sunday as saying Ms. Palin had been subjected to an F.B.I. background check, an F.B.I. official said Monday the bureau did not vet potential candidates and had not known of her selection until it was made public.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 11:32 PM

Well, they do have tapes of her doing the very thing that Monegan is saying she did. I think I read that they have at least one email as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM

Also, remember what Ebbie has told us on the "Bridge to Nowhere". It's an easy target--but it was to be a bridge to somewhere--only question was whether the cost was justified.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 11:24 PM

"simplistic"--- Question is when the FBI started investigating. We would need the exact date--with source.   That will determine if her anti-corruption push started before or after. From what I understand she has in fact been a crusader for clean government from the start.

With the possible exception of the trooper problem--which, if her improper involvement is proven, will totally destroy her reputation--and McCain's chances.

We'll see if a smoking gun is found--before November.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:50 PM

Well, whatever one thinks of Sarah Palin, I don't see how in could be determined that seving as VP is not executive experience. They have staffs and function as executives in every sense of the word.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:48 PM

But the vp is not executive experience, either. Like I said, this whole 'executive' thing about Palin is a red herring.
She is a poorly educated and relatively unexperienced politician. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:45 PM

"...did you vote for Richard Nixon or for Gerald Ford? Neither one of them had what you are calling executive experience."


                   Both of them served as VP's, Nixon for 8 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:31 PM

"ews continues to break regarding vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin that could, in the long term, pose serious problems to one of the main thrusts of the McCain campaign: the message of conservative reform.

The presentation of Palin as an anti-earmark, fiscally conscious pol is challenged by a review of recent political records. As mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, she hired the firm of Hoffman Silver Gilman & Blasco to help secure spending projects for her town. The expenditure apparently paid off. From 2000 through 2002, Wasilla received more than $5.5 million in federal cash for transportation and social service projects.

According to the group Citizens Against Government Waste, the city received $1 million for a bus facility in 2000. In 2001, the Wasilla Health Center was granted a half million dollars for a community mental health center. That same year the city's emergency shelter also was granted $500,000 for a transitional living program for homeless youth. A year later, the Wasilla regional dispatch center received $1 million in pork, the city was granted $1.5 million for water and sewer improvements, and received an additional $600,000 for a bus facility.

The use of the earmark system that -- as a vice presidential candidate -- Palin now criticizes continued into her tenure as governor. As the Los Angeles Times reported, the state of Alaska requested 31 earmarks worth $197.8 million for next year's federal budget. And according to Citizens Against Government Waste, Alaska received $379,669,715 in pork during fiscal year 2008, nearly $100 million more than any other state.

There are important caveats to this information: projects funded by federal earmarks are often viewed positively by voters, particularly in Alaska, and analysts argue that many earmarks serve important community functions and end up saving taxpayer funds in the long run.

But John McCain has made earmark bashing a cornerstone of his campaign, calling the spending projects a "gateway to corruption." And since taking on the responsibility of running mate, Palin too has presented herself as a thorn in the side of the earmark culture. When introduced to the public last Friday, McCain said of Palin: she "championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending." Palin herself touted her opposition to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere, the nearly 400 million-dollar project that Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens requested and which became a rallying cry for McCain. As subsequent news reports pointed out, during her gubernatorial run in 2006, Palin backed the project and sympathized with the communities who wanted the Bridge to Nowhere money. Only when it became a national joke did she change her tune.

Making matters worse, on Monday the Washington Post reported that Palin had previously served on Ted Steven's political 527 group. The revelation is a notably thorny one for McCain. The Arizona Republican has butted heads with Stevens over spending matters (Palin, too, has challenged the longtime Senator on the matter). And Stevens was recently indicted on seven counts of corruption. On Sunday, moreover, McCain's chief surrogate and confidante, Sen. Lindsey Graham said of Palin's foreign policy experience, "if she can handle Ted Stevens she can handle Russia."..."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:27 PM

Anderson Cooper just asked Obama about this 'experience' issue on CNN. He replied that recommendations he put in place in legislation post Katrina and are being successfully implemented now and the fact that he has been the executive of a much larger staff and budget than Palin has in his two year campaign should put that issue to rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:04 PM

>>>So? Executive experience is not necessary! Perhaps, Alice, you don't think so and I respect your opinion, but I certainly don't agree.

Then you won't be voting for McCain right?

He's been a Senator and before that middle management in the Navy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:02 PM

Doug, did you vote for Richard Nixon or for Gerald Ford? Neither one of them had what you are calling executive experience. But I'm sure that did not stop you from voting for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: olddude
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 09:59 PM

For me not so much experience as decision making. Both candidates showed us their first major decision making ability. Obama's pick for VP, and old workhorse who is well respected and a season vet who could walk into the presidency should the need arise. McCain's first major decision, someone completely unqualified. All I need to see

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM

I would be interested in seeing some news articles about Palin fighting corruption in Alaska from back when she was supposed to have been doing it. So far I have not found any.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 09:48 PM

"Executive experience is not necessary! "

ANYONE can GET experience.   Quality, not quantity is the issue. You are clinging to a number on a piece of paper that is translating into ZERO in terms of the "real world".

You can spend a decade as a short order cook in a diner, that doesn't mean you can handle the task at the Four Seasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: DougR
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 09:43 PM

So? Executive experience is not necessary! Perhaps, Alice, you don't think so and I respect your opinion, but I certainly don't agree.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 09:17 PM

Palin wouldn't have had the resources to set up a sting on Stevens that way anyway. I can't imagine that could have happened...