BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:06 PM

sorry that last remark was with ref to the unsourced report posted at 13 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:04 PM

Local hero Palin receives rapturous homecoming

US: SARAH PALIN has returned to Alaska for the first time since becoming the Republican vice-presidential candidate, speaking yesterday at a deployment ceremony for 4,000 soldiers, including her 19-year-old son Track, who are going to Iraq, writes Denis Staunton in Fairbanks, Alaska.

Three thousand people turned out to see Ms Palin when she arrived late on Wednesday night in Fairbanks, about 350 miles north of Anchorage.

"Everywhere we're going, the response really has been overwhelming," she told the crowd, which spilled out of a vast aircraft hangar.

"I knew the coldest state would give us the warmest welcome."

One sign in the crowd said "Read my lipstick: Sarah, Sarah," a reference to Ms Palin's joke at the Republican convention that the difference between a "hockey mom" and a pitbull was lipstick.

Another alluded to the controversy over Barack Obama's use of the phrase "putting lipstick on a pig", which Republicans claim was a slur on Ms Palin.

"You can put lipstick on a community organiser but they're still just a community organiser," the sign read.

A few dozen Obama supporters gathered outside the rally but the mood was overwhelmingly celebratory and Ray Perdue, who works in a Fairbanks hotel, said the whole of Alaska was cheering Ms Palin.

"We're so excited for her, but we'll miss her here. She's done more for this state than all the last governors put together. She's not afraid of big oil. She's not afraid of anything. And she's not afraid of Barack Obama," he said...................................................

As the Obama campaign struggles to decide how to counteract the Palin phenomenon, Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden admitted that he may not have been the best choice.

"Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice-president of the United States of America," he said at a rally in New Hampshire.

"She's a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she's easily qualified to be vice-president of the United States of America, and quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me."

© 2008 The Irish Times

There's always more than one way of reporting things - but maybe the Irish times doesn't have an axe to grind!

I've said that Sarah Palin;s views are anathema to me but reiterate that this sort of bias doesn't help to address the real issues

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:01 PM

"WASILLA, Alaska — Gov. Sarah Palin lives by the maxim that all politics is local, not to mention personal.

So when there was a vacancy at the top of the State Division of Agriculture, she appointed a high school classmate, Franci Havemeister, to the $95,000-a-year directorship. A former real estate agent, Ms. Havemeister cited her childhood love of cows as a qualification for running the roughly $2 million agency.

Ms. Havemeister was one of at least five schoolmates Ms. Palin hired, often at salaries far exceeding their private sector wages.

When Ms. Palin had to cut her first state budget, she avoided the legion of frustrated legislators and mayors. Instead, she huddled with her budget director and her husband, Todd, an oil field worker who is not a state employee, and vetoed millions of dollars of legislative projects.

And four months ago, a Wasilla blogger, Sherry Whitstine, who chronicles the governor's career with an astringent eye, answered her phone to hear an assistant to the governor on the line, she said.

"You should be ashamed!" Ivy Frye, the assistant, told her. "Stop blogging. Stop blogging right now!"

Ms. Palin walks the national stage as a small-town foe of "good old boy" politics and a champion of ethics reform. The charismatic 44-year-old governor draws enthusiastic audiences and high approval ratings. And as the Republican vice-presidential nominee, she points to her management experience while deriding her Democratic rivals, Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as speechmakers who never have run anything.

But an examination of her swift rise and record as mayor of Wasilla and then governor finds that her visceral style and penchant for attacking critics — she sometimes calls local opponents "haters" — contrasts with her carefully crafted public image.

Throughout her political career, she has pursued vendettas, fired officials who crossed her and sometimes blurred the line between government and personal grievance, according to a review of public records and interviews with 60 Republican and Democratic legislators and local officials.

Still, Ms. Palin has many supporters. As a two-term mayor she paved roads and built an ice rink, and as governor she has pushed through higher taxes on the oil companies that dominate one-third of the state's economy. She stirs deep emotions. In Wasilla, many residents display unflagging affection, cheering "our Sarah" and hissing at her critics.

"She is bright and has unfailing political instincts," said Steve Haycox, a history professor at the University of Alaska. "She taps very directly into anxieties about the economic future."

"But," he added, "her governing style raises a lot of hard questions."

Ms. Palin declined to grant an interview for this article. The McCain-Palin campaign responded to some questions on her behalf and that of her husband, while referring others to the governor's spokespeople, who did not respond.

Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell said Ms. Palin had conducted an accessible and effective administration in the public's interest. "Everything she does is for the ordinary working people of Alaska," he said.

In Wasilla, a builder said he complained to Mayor Palin when the city attorney put a stop-work order on his housing project. She responded, he said, by engineering the attorney's firing.

Interviews show that Ms. Palin runs an administration that puts a premium on loyalty and secrecy. The governor and her top officials sometimes use personal e-mail accounts for state business; dozens of e-mail messages obtained by The New York Times show that her staff members studied whether that could allow them to circumvent subpoenas seeking public records.

Rick Steiner, a University of Alaska professor, sought the e-mail messages of state scientists who had examined the effect of global warming on polar bears. (Ms. Palin said the scientists had found no ill effects, and she has sued the federal government to block the listing of the bears as endangered.) An administration official told Mr. Steiner that his request would cost $468,784 to process.

When Mr. Steiner finally obtained the e-mail messages — through a federal records request — he discovered that state scientists had in fact agreed that the bears were in danger, records show.

"Their secrecy is off the charts," Mr. Steiner said.

State legislators are investigating accusations that Ms. Palin and her husband pressured officials to fire a state trooper who had gone through a messy divorce with her sister, charges that she denies. But interviews make clear that the Palins draw few distinctions between the personal and the political."...

NYT

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM

NCHORAGE (AP) — Hundreds of people protesting the policies of Republican vice presidential candidate and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin lined a busy street on Saturday, waving signs and chanting "Obama!"
The protest came about two hours after Palin delivered a rousing speech at Anchorage's new convention center before leaving the state to return to the campaign trail. Palin was named John McCain's running mate on Aug. 29. This was her first return since then to her home state.

The protesters, including supporters of presidential candidate Barack Obama and those who don't agree with Palin's positions on abortion, polar bears, Iraq and other issues, lined one side of the street near Anchorage's main library building.

A much smaller number of mostly pro-Palin supporters were on the other side of the street, chanting "Sarah! Sarah!"

Police were at the scene, but there were no immediate reports of clashes.

Angie Doroff, 46, helped organize the rally. The wildlife biologist, yoga teacher and artist said she was pleased and surprised at how many people showed up.

"We're not alone. A lot of people are worried about the nomination of Sarah Palin," Doroff said, as cars drove by honking their horns in support.

Barbara Norton, a 56-year-old midwife, stood near a sign that read, "Alaskan Women for Choice."

"I think America does not understand how absolutely extreme her positions are — even to the right of George Bush and John McCain," Norton said. "She is frightening."

Anne Applegate-Scott, a 44-year-old attorney and stay-at-home mom, held a sign that said, "I don't vote for liars." Applegate-Scott said she actually voted for Palin for governor but won't vote for the McCain-Palin ticket. Palin, she thinks, has become a "product" of McCain handlers and won't let her talk to the media.

When she does talk, Applegate-Scott accused Palin of lying about her record.

"She lied about her position on earmarks and building the bridge," Applegate-Scott said referring to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. "She talks about her being a feminist but it is convenient feminism, it doesn't cost her anything."

One woman held a sign that read, "I'm Bail'in on Palin!" Another said, "Pro Woman, Anti-Palin." Another read, "What About Healthcare?"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:43 PM

"'The swing vote was cast by Sen Charlie Huggins, who blasted his fellow Republicans for seeking to delay an investigation Gov Palin earlier had said she welcomed. "We are in a new era--let's get the facts on the table.'"

             At the time, nobody knew Sarah Palin was going to get the VP nod.

             And you're right, for the good of the country this needs to be put off until after the election.

             What if Barack Obama actually got elected?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 06:29 PM

" She can't deal with it now..."

i.e. she owes it to the country to put off dealing with a legal problem til after the election. Right. Anything you say.

100% drivel from the usual source.

Sorry there are those of us who don't want to buy a pig in a poke (swine metaphors being in fashion.)

Nixon was, I'm sure, happy the Watergate investigations didn't start til after the 1972 election. And that was fine with you too, correct?



For another perspective:   WSJ 13 Sept 2008

"A bipartisan Alaska legislative panel voted to subpoena Gov Sarah Palin's husband..."

"The swing vote was cast by Sen Charlie Huggins, who blasted his fellow Republicans for seeking to delay an investigation Gov Palin earlier had said she welcomed. "We are in a new era--let's get the facts on the table. "

Interesting that a Mudcatter is voting in favor of stonewalling, while a Republican in Alaska wants to pursue the investigation now.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 06:12 PM

She reminds my Rog and me of a congresswoman from WY, now retired, by the name of Barbara Cubin. She did whatever the big boys told her to. She brought penis-shaped cookies into the WY legislature one time and, another time, she took crotch-shots of all of the male state congressmen, put those on a bulletin board and had a contest as to which one matched which fellah. THIS was all on taxpayers' time. And, she went on to the US Congress after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 05:09 PM

She's a spear-carrier, and a red herring, as well as being a pit bull with pig-stick, no I mean....never mind!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:34 AM

Well, Amos, lets be fair when it comes to Sarah being a "neocon"... The true neocons are in all actuality, educated, intellectual people... Just have this one little flaw in thinking that colonialism is something new and wondersous...

Ms. Sarah does not appear to be very bright, however, and wereas she would most likely be a good "order taker" for the neocons wouldn't have a clue what they are about...

I mean, lets be fair here... I don't think the woman has any ability for ***creative or critical*** thought and is merely parroting what others have stuffed in her purdy little head...

(That sounds "sexist", Boberdz...)

No, it isn't... Hillary is an example of what creative and critical thinking looks like and Ms. Sarah, bless her peapickin' heart, ain't got those qulaities...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:54 AM

Ted Stevens, of course, knew he was going to be running for re-election a long time prior to the time charges were brought against him. Sarah Palin didn't know she was the VP candidate until a few weeks ago. In the meantime, the legislature was moving forward with its investigation.
               One wouldn't even have to know anything about Alaskan politics to know that Democrats in the legislature would like nothing better than to derail her.
               She can't deal with it now and risk letting Obama walk away with the presidency. America would never forgive her.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 05:10 PM

I don't care, Don. I'm retired. nyah nyah, nyah, Sarah!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 04:55 PM

Sarah Palin =
Anal Parish
A sharp nail
a plain rash



See, this is another shrill example of the shrill attacks against a god fearing christian woman who has only done good for her family, her town, her state and next, her country and the world.

Blasphemy like this will not go unnoticed after the election mister,
we can get you fired no matter who you work for.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:48 PM

SOme comments from Alaskans:

"Stonewall 'em Sarah!!! Keep finding reasons to delay until after you get elected to higher office. This display of contempt for the open government you profess to support is yet another sign that you are ready to go to Washington.

Posted by: absidion at Sep. 12, 2008 at 4:37:29 pm
So much for "I welcome an investigation. Bring it on!"
Open government my eye!

Posted by: racecars at Sep. 12, 2008 at 4:45:32 pm
WHAT A JOKE OUR GOVERNOR IS!!!! SHE IS GUILTY AND KNOWS IT..TIME FOR THE PUPPET FLOP!!!

Posted by: alaskadude at Sep. 12, 2008 at 4:55:06 pm
One Word... Transparent.

Posted by: jnugrrl at Sep. 12, 2008 at 5:07:24 pm
How ironic is it that the shady, good ol' boy, Uncle Ted pushed to have his trial BEFORE the elections, yet the transparent, pristine, Gov. Palin is trying to DELAY her investigation until AFTER the elections.

Posted by: maddog at Sep. 12, 2008 at 5:12:22 pm
Dick Cheney would be proud! Sneer at them Sarah.

Posted by: Dingdong at Sep. 12, 2008 at 5:28:33 pm
If Palin abused her authority in the original Troopergate incident is unknown and needs to be investigated. However by now hiring lawyers, ordering staff not to cooperate, arguing about which venue is appropriate, and having lied about her and her staff openess and willing to cooperate, it is obvious that Palin is now abusing her power. How disapointed and sad I am to see the typical lying stonewalling tactics Palin now employs, directed, no doubt by a staff of lawyers on the McCain payroll. Our girl has gone over to the other side. Palin can not come back for long, if ever. Things will never be the same in Saradise.

Posted by: absidion at Sep. 12, 2008 at 5:44:20 pm
dingdong - isn't it ironic? She's abusing her power to stonewall an investigation into whether or not she was abusing her power!!! If this weren't such a serious issue, it'd be funny.....

Posted by: dhorner8 at Sep. 12, 2008 at 6:03:26 pm
Almost unbelievable...but it follows the patterns she has set forth in her very limited time in power. This isn't a "party" thing. This is a PALIN CORRUPTION thing.

Does anyone recall her statements following one of her last attempts to deny Alaskans the right to know the true cost of moving the capital before they vote on it?

Something about "Alaskans don't need to know..." (the true facts)..."they need to trust their elected officials to do what's best for them..."

I'm starting to think she really is believing the lies and garbage she spits out! Can we get a psych evaluation on the governor to see the true extent of her delusional state???"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:45 PM

I think it is really snide to refer to a candidate's supporters that way, Rig. You're messing with a decent guy with a lot of intelligencve in Obama. Why resort to cheap-saloon snidity?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:48 PM

The Obamamaniacs will have the Dems in the legislature trying to bring this up at every opportunity. With less than 2 months to go until the election, the only thing she can do is to kick it down the road, whether she did anything wrong or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM

I don't want to start another Palin thread but I want to post this latest wrinkle in the Troopergate (How I hate the "gate" affixed to everything!) case. Note the Juneau bloggers' reaction to today's development.

Only Under Subpoena, evidently

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM

Well, if they expand the definition too far, it won't mean much of anything to anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:18 AM

ANd rightly so, originally. The abuses of the Bush Administration have expanded the word into a sort of catchall for nutballs, meatheads and reactionary yahoos of the far right--war-mongers, bible-thumpers, military-industrial war profiteers, etc., etc.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:04 AM

Maybe "Neocon" means something different to me. I think of Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle when the word neocon comes up.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:41 AM

1000

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:33 AM

You're opening another can of worms, there,, Rig. She espouses positions which are not classically conservative (such as rejecting anthropogenic global warming, and inserting Pentecostal views into secular discussions, for example).

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: pdq
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:05 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 07:10 AM

What would make her a neocon?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 12:21 PM

Again, yet, if all the negative accusations about Palin were true, the faithful would still vote for her. And if they were all false, she would still be an uninformed neocon.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 10:10 AM

"What kind of budget-cutter makes a show of getting rid of the state plane, then turns around and bills taxpayers for the travel of her husband and kids between Juneau and Wasilla and sticks the state with a per-diem tab to stay in her own home?

Why was Sarah for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against the Bridge to Nowhere, and why was she for earmarks before she was against them? And doesn't all this make her just as big a flip-flopper as John Kerry?

What kind of fiscal conservative raises taxes and increases budgets in both her jobs — as mayor and as governor?

When the phone rings at 3 a.m., will she call the Wasilla Assembly of God congregation and ask them to pray on a response, as she asked them to pray for a natural gas pipeline?

Does she really think Adam, Eve, Satan and the dinosaurs mingled on the earth 5,000 years ago?

Why put out a press release about her teenage daughter's pregnancy and then spend the next few days attacking the press for covering that press release?

As Troopergate unfolds here — an inquiry into whether Palin inappropriately fired the commissioner of public safety for refusing to fire her ex-brother-in-law — it raises this question: Who else is on her enemies list and what might she do with the F.B.I.?

Does she want a federal ban on trans fat in restaurants and a ban on abortion and Harry Potter? And which books exactly would have landed on the literature bonfire if she had had her way with that Wasilla librarian?

Just how is it that Fannie and Freddie have cost taxpayers money (since they haven't yet)?

Does she talk in tongues or just eat caribou tongues?

What does she have against polar bears? "

(MAureen DOwd, NYT, excerpted)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM

"That's horse pucky, thick and redolent. If the whole nation is maverick, there is no herd for any of them to maverick from, and the whole concept becomes meaningless." Amos

Along similar lines my cartoons said
"when no one in the administration is 'right' about anything, then no one is wrong"

or

"No one will die in vain as long as the war is endless"

so the next cartoon will be a herd of Republicans saying
"We're ALL Mavericks, drill drill drill drill drill drill!"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:32 AM

Normal, Greg...

This has been the Republcan formula going back decades...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Greg B
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:29 AM

Joe, Obama and McCain can afford to declare families "off limits." They
have plenty of other people to do that dirty work for them. The guys
who 'Swift boated' John Kerry didn't work for Dubya or the RNC.

Of course if you've seen young Ms. Clinton lately, you'd know that
she's had the last laugh on that 'ugly' comment.

I agree with Barry--- Palin's the one holding the infant up in
the air for the photo ops. She's also the one leveraging the
'everyday family woman with everyday problems' to try and sucker
other women into her camp.

Apparently the only thing that's supposed to be "off limits" is
any spin but her own and the RNC's.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:31 AM

lol

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:31 AM

Yo, Six. Check your e-msil.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:29 AM

Geeeezuz Carol do you have to point out everything !!!    :)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:26 AM

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:26 AM

Soybeans are a legume.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:25 AM

seems the grain prices were off sharply on Friday.

Corn: Sep 5.31 1/2, off 17 3/4; Dec 5.48 1/2, off 16; Mar 5.67 1/4, off 16; May 5.79 1/4, off 16.

Soybeans: Sep 11.80, off 54 ; Nov 11.77, off 58; Jan 11.93 3/4, off 58 1/4, Mar 12.06 3/4, off 57 3/4.

Wheat: Sep 7.29 3/4, off 25 1/2; Dec 7.51 1/2, off 25 1/2; Mar 7.74 3/4, off 26; May 7.88 1/2, off 27.

Oats: Sep 3.27, off 1; Dec 3.41, off 2; Mar 3.58 1/2, off 2; May 3.70 1/2, off 2.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:06 PM

Seems the RNC delayed bunp is finally getting traction.

RCP Average        08/29 - 09/07        --        45.7        46.7        McCain +1.0
USA Today/Gallup        09/05 - 09/07        LV        44        54        McCain +10
Gallup Tracking        09/04 - 09/06        2765 RV        45        48        McCain +3
Rasmussen Tracking        09/04 - 09/06        3000 LV        48        48        Tie
Hotline/FD        09/02 - 09/04        916 RV        46        40        Obama +6
CBS News        09/01 - 09/03        734 RV        42        42        Tie
CNN        08/29 - 08/31        927 RV        49        48        Obama +1

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:39 PM

Believe it or not, I was taught in a Catholic seminary that "rhythm" and hoping for abstinence don't work very well. Unfortunately, that 150-year-old seminary closed its doors last year.
But Barry, I want to take issue with you on saying Palin's children are fair game. She's got children and it appears that she loves them, and that's nice. I don't htink she's tried to use them for propaganda purposes beyond that. Now, if you can come up with evidence that she is an evil mother or something, then that might be a different issue - but I agree with Barack Obama that children and family should not be targets in this campaign. It seems like Obama and McCain are the only people who think this campaign should be honorable. Why can't we follow their example and debate issues for a change?
And another thing - I think it's wrong to tie the campaign too closely to ideology. I have lost faith in ideology in recent years, because it never seems to work. I think it's time for us to start looking for consensus and compromise, to realize that we cannot govern this country according to the whims of a simple majority. If we are to progress as a nation, our changes must be supported by the vast majority of people. We have to seek unity and avoid divisiveness as much as we can. I think both presidential candidates believe that, and I think we need to follow their example on this.
And yes, it does appear that ten years ago, John McCain did call Chelsea Clinton "ugly." He also apologized for that remark. It WAS a cheap shot, but it WAS ten years ago...

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM

Agreed, again, Barry! Damn, I wish you'd run for office!!

Doug, read the links in the blog. Sheesh! Or, take the blinders off, as Carol mentions.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:45 PM

That's horse pucky, thick and redolent. If the whole nation is maverick, there is no herd for any of them to maverick from, and the whole concept becomes meaningless.

Note that :Samuel A. Maverick was a Texan rancher of the 1840's who did not bother to brand his calves (which was an important practice followed by the community). At first the word Maverick was only used for unbranded calves. The meaning was extended to apply to one who doesn't follow the common herd , somebody different and a little far from the crowd of rule followers.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:11 PM

Ahhhhh, sorry Dougie, to leave you out...

What the hell do you know about sex??? Word on the street is you ain't "had any" since the Wright Brothers were messin' 'round with Kitty Hawk... Awww, jus' funnin...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:08 PM

Yeah, Barry, I think you have purdy much hit the entire McCain campaign on the head... They want their cake and eat it too... It's okay to do whatever they want to do, say whatever comes into their little peo brains, accuse Obama of anything that they or anyone else can think up but...

...when they themselves are called on their crap it's "Oh, that is personal and off limits" or "I spent 5 years as a POW"...

Give me a break...

But you hit it on th head, Barry, with Ms. Sarah...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:00 PM

For those that are sayin Palin's family is off limits, I say NOT. She & the committee should've kept them off stage & out of the limelight if that were the case. They held off because they wanted the advantage of a "family display" on stage party so they could use her stances on family values, "just say no", abortions while parading her to controvasial children on a world wide network. She used her kids so they are now fair game. The Clintions didn't use of let their kid be used but yet it was McNasty that rendered the "UGLY" blow on their child & made a national insult of the "hands off" family policy.
Palin is in the water with the sharks, & she's hunting them & baring her teeth. The sharks should be afraid. She's using everyone that available & on her terms only.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:24 PM

( ...my guess would be blinkers)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:24 PM

That blog entry does contain credible links to credible organizations. Is there some reason why they were not opened and read?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: DougR
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:22 PM

kat: your offering evidence from a blog to support your POV just makes no sense at all. A blogger can write anything and SOMEBODY is going to believe it. Example:Bush administration operatives brought down one of the towers on 9/11. There are actually some kooks that believe that!

Amos:quoting from the New Yorker Magazine to support your POV makes just about as much sense as kat's reproducing quotes from bloggers.

Suppose I were to quote Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingrham or some other conservative to support my POV on a subject, would that convert either of you or your fellow same-believers to my POV?

Jeeze.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:19 PM

Apparently "about 35% (of federally funded sex ed programs in public schools) not only required abstinence to be covered but either did not allow discussion of contraceptives or allowed discussion only of their failure rates".

http://www.avert.org/abstinence.htm


And apparently scientific studies have been done. The above link mentions some of them, and the AMA has come out saying that it cannot support abstinence-based sex ed programs...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140823,00.html


According to this AIDS prevention website, the Texas Department of State Health Services conducted a scientific study and found abstinence-based sex ed programs to be ineffective...

http://aidsblog.blogspot.com/2005/02/abstinence-based-sex-education-fails.html


This is what the Union of Concerned Scientists has to say about it...

http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/case_studies_and_evidence/abstinence-only-education.html


This paper discusses the body of scientific work that has been done on this subject...

Abstinence Only vs. Comprehensive Sex Education

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:06 PM

"That McCain eventually wound up here should come as a less than total surprise, for the guru guiding his message and strategy is Steve Schmidt, who made his bones working for Rove in 2004. Schmidt is regarded as one of the toughest, savviest, most skilled operatives in the business—but his mettle will be severely tested by his opposite number on Team Obama, David Axelrod, the class of the Democratic field. For months already, the two men have faced off like a pair of chess grand masters, carefully arranging their pieces on the board, occasionally snatching a pawn or a rook, setting up their candidates for the final drive to capture the other side's king. ..."

From The Sixty-Day War in New York Magazine, an interesting analysis of the game behind the games.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

Who have you known that has nearly the same whineing sarcastic tone of voice as Sarah Palin?

The problem is that is her normal tone.

The obnoxious tone of her voice is probably how she got her way much of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 07:58 PM

Hubby:

You can always find a poll to make you happy.

Here's a national average of polls from RCP:

RCP Average        08/29 - 09/06        --        46.0        45.2        Obama +0.8
Gallup Tracking        09/04 - 09/06        2765 RV        45        48        McCain +3
Rasmussen Tracking        09/04 - 09/06        3000 LV        48        48        Tie
Hotline/FD        09/02 - 09/04        916 RV        46        40        Obama +6
CBS News        09/01 - 09/03        734 RV        42        42        Tie
CNN        08/29 - 08/31        927 RV        49        48        Obama +1

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: pdq
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM

"...parents can opt out of sex education classes for their children in the UK"

Sorry, but Sara Palin is not running for VP of the UK. Here, most kids take the courses they are given. The amount of federal money might be reduced, and, like most things, it always come down to money.

"I just did not agree with the middle school administrators and the way they did not deal with bullying."

Yes, that is the biggest impediment to education in many schools. Your state of Montana has as little problem as any state. Go sit in at a class in Los Angeles, Chicago or Hackensack.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 07:40 PM

SuSu's Hubby: what Peace said, both times.

Some excerpts from a blog with links to relevant citations:

Beginning in 1995, Title V of the Social Security Act has provided funds for states willing to implement abstinence-only sex-education classes. Among other things, qualifying curricula are required to instruct students that there are "social, psychological, and health gains to be realized by abstaining from sexual activity," that "sexual activity outside of the context of marriage is likely to have harmful psychological and physical effects," and that "abstinence from sexual activity is the only certain way to avoid out-of wedlock pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and other associated health problems."...

From 1996-2001, 49 states received funds under Title V, the holdout being California, which already had its own abstinence-only curriculum. In 2002, a study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that about a third of secondary schools in the U.S. were then practicing abstinence-only sex education.

Starting in 2002, many states began dropping out of the program, citing research showing that — compared to comprehensive sex education — abstinence-only programs do not delay first sexual experience in most students and have little to no long-term effects on sexual intentions and activity, other than a slightly increased tolerance for teen pregnancy.

Furthermore, some critics accused the federally funded programs of spreading misinformation and lies, such as that "condoms fail in 31% of cases of heterosexual sex," "touching someone's genitals can make you pregnant," "50% of all American teenage gay men are HIV positive," and "HIV can pass through condoms because the latex used in condoms is porous."

Currently, only 28 states are receiving Title V funds, with two more (Iowa and Arizona) planning to drop out after this fiscal year. Says a spokesman for the governor of Ohio, which dropped out in 2007: "We've spent millions of dollars on such education since Ohio first started getting grant money in 1998. If the state is going to spend money on teaching and protecting kids, the governor believes it's better to spend it in a smarter, more comprehensive approach."

However, Governor Palin — apparently undaunted by mere research (just the kind of new leadership we need!) recently announced that Alaska would be applying for federal abstinence-only sex-education funds for next fiscal year, saying "the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support." That quote is from a survey given in 2006...