BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:19 PM

what was left out of those statistics from The Center for Children and Families -

Compared to all of the United States, Alaska has a lower uninsured rate among children.
In the US, 11.6% of children lack health coverage; 19.3% of low-income children lack coverage.

The corresponding figures for Alaska are 9.4% and 13.5% of low income children who lack coverage

However it has a slightly higher figure for parents than the United States as a whole

Alaska ranks 26th among the 50 states and the District of Columbia in its Medicaid income eligibility threshold for parents.


In January 2007, Alaska expanded SCHIP-financed Medicaid coverage to children with family income from 154% to 175% of the 2007 federal poverty level (FPL). Governor Palin signed the legislation on July 9, 2007.
In doing so, it restored eligibility to the levels in place before a change eliminated the annual indexing of the eligibility level to inflation.

In February 2007, Governor Palin signed onto a letter written with Governor Blagojevich (D-IL) and eleven other Governors, calling on Congress to address the expected funding shortfall for the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP).

During the legislative session in 2008, legislation was introduced to expand coverage to 200% of the federal poverty level. The bill passed the Senate, but did not receive a vote in the House prior to the end of the session. The Governor's Health Strategies Council, consisting of members appointed by the Governor, also recommended an expansion to 200% of the federal poverty level.


The problem of educational under achievement in Alaska is a relection of 'The sheer magnitude of the geographic barriers to be overcome in delivering educational services in rural Alaska and Alaska villages'

The US Dept of Education acknowledges that 'Alaska Native children enter and exit school with serious educational handicaps.'

and
'The educational achievement of Alaska Native children is far below national norms. Native performance on standardized tests is low, Native student dropout rates are high, and Natives are significantly underrepresented among holders of baccalaureate degrees in the State of Alaska'

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:48 AM

Palin was raised as a Roman Catholic.

In 2002, the year she first ran for statewide office, unsuccessfully for lieutenant governor, she left her childhood church and joined the Wasilla Bible Church, a nondenominational evangelical church that "believe[s] in the Bible as the only inspired inerrant Word of God authoritative for faith and practice," according to its statement of faith.

In contrast to Assemblies of God, the Wasilla Bible Church's statement of faith contains NO reference to such Pentecostal requirements as speaking in tongues, divine healing or belief in the rapture.

Not all Pentecostals are conservative (Leah Daughtry, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Convention, is a Pentecostal minister)

According to a 2006 study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life however they are more conservative than other Christians on social, moral and spiritual issues, and only more LIKELY to believe in the rapture and end-times.

None of this makes Palin 'a rapture ready extremist' as described by 'noted provocateur' Sam Harris in Newsweek and no doubt to be repeated ad nauseum elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:26 AM

Rig:

Keep plugging, man. That one didn't fly, but someday....



A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:19 AM

From Mudflats in Alaska, McCain Campaign Re-writes Alaska History
re write of Alaska history
quote in part:

Here's what else I know about my state. We have the third worst children's health insurance program in the nation. The Governor wouldn't support cost-effective measures to extend insurance to the 10,000 children of Alaskan working parents who cannot afford coverage. She campaigned against a recent proposal to prevent large strip mines from spilling toxic chemicals into Alaska's salmon waters – something that's raised the ire of fishermen and Alaska Natives in remote Southwest Alaska communities. Thirty-five to forty percent of our kids don't graduate from high school, and we can't convince Governor Palin to join the 41 other states that have accepted the science showing statewide pre-k education helps kids succeed when they don't have other good options at home.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:46 AM

Yes she does believe in the Rapture.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 08:36 AM

"I am darn sure Ms Palin did not understand one paragraph of any Biden speech she may have heard in second grade."



                     On the other hand, Biden didn't understand one paragraph of any Biden speech when Sarah was in the second grade either.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 02:33 AM

Biden's actually been in politics longer than McCain. But I don't think anyone could possibly make an argument that McCain is any less of a career politician, and any more of an outsider to Washington than Biden.

McCain's saying that experience is paramount. Well, if that's the case, Biden trumps McCain on experience. Palin is saying that being new and young is what counts. While Obama is about two and a half years older than Palin, McCain is about seven years older than Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 12:03 AM

Humph. She hadn't even begun school yet when McCain started speechifying.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 11:39 PM

Palin actually made Obama's case for him in the Kouric interview when she suggested that Biden is old and experienced and she is new and fresh, and the voters might take that into consideration when they make their choice. That's the case that is being made in support of Obama, and it's the thing McCain has most consistently used as a criticism of Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin stood by her opposition to abortion even in cases of rape or incest and her skepticism that global warming is caused by human activity, but she stepped back from her past support for teaching creationism in the schools in last night's installment of her interviews with CBS's Katie Couric. Details in The Washington Post.

She was hard put to name one newspaper she has read.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 09:34 PM

Mwahahahaha. That's a fancy piece of contortionism, there, Rig. KEep track of the neck angle--you may need the information to undo an insertion.

I am darn sure Ms Palin did not understand one paragraph of any Biden speech she may have heard in second grade.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 09:32 PM

"Palin's Joke About Biden Backfires... On the campaign trail, Gov. Sarah Palin jokes about listening to Sen. Joe Biden's speeches since she was in second grade."


                Not necessarily. Like a lot of the things Sarah Palin says, it goes over the heads of readers of the Daily.Kos the first time. Then they come to their senses later and realize that they didn't have the intellect to listen to political speeches in the second grade. In the end, they'll change their vote.
                It takes a while for some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 09:26 PM

Hey, I've said all I yam gonna say about it. It was slightly offensive, but for crissakes it was from the Onion and there's a lot about the topic of McCain / Palin which is a LOT more offensive than the line in my post.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:39 PM

Ye gods! Amos is perhaps the most "truthful and decent" person I have met. Whassa matta you guys? So maybe he should not have posted that tasteless Onion piece- I haven't noticed you pulling your punches, bb.

As for your aside to me, Amos, by this time I've forgotten what I wrote. I think it had to do with you and another person I addressed- be assured, sir, that I included you in order to ameliorate the sting on the other person. verstehen sie?. In actuality, I am no longer sure what I said and I can't find it.


Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce - PM
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 02:21 PM

Amos rarely lets truth or decency get in the way of a dig at those he dislikes- but he stands fully behind all requirements for everyone else to maintain both when discussing those he supports.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post - Top - Forum Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B - PM
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 01:04 PM

'it would have been better not to post it, I suppose.'

But you did!

However respect for the truth and/or decency seem to be in very short supply on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:30 PM

Well, enough about retard babies, folks...

I just heard Saraqh Palin on CBS being interviewed by Katie Couric who was trying to pin Ms. Sarah down on contracetion and abortion and Ms. Sarah refused to state that abortion should be illegal... Instead, Ms. Sarah said that her "personal choice" would be against the morning after pill...

Seems strange to hear the word "choice" in her answers about abortion and even though I don't think the lady has the qualifications to be president, I am encouraged that she, at least for now, seems not to be a rabid anti-abortionist...

Plus, as I have stated, she is a looker...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM

The children should be off limits. I agree that r****d baby comment should be deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 06:51 PM

Sarah Palin on Sarah Palin

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 05:10 PM

May I request that Amos' post of 30 Sep 08 - 12:33 PM be removed? That is just SICK. 'retard baby' indeed.

Amos, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:30 PM

A statement by Palin backfires:

Palin's Joke About Biden Backfires
On the campaign trail, Gov. Sarah Palin jokes about listening to Sen. Joe Biden's speeches since she was in second grade. In a just-released CBS News segment, Katie Couric asks if that isn't an odd thing to say given her own running mate's age.

Said Palin: "Oh no, it's nothing negative at all. He's got a lot of experience and just stating the fact there, that we've been hearing his speeches for all these years. So he's got a tremendous amount of experience and, you know, I'm the new energy, the new face, the new ideas and he's got the experience based on many many years in the Senate and voters are gonna have a choice there of what it is that they want in these next four years."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM

AN analysis of why Sarah Palin might be being badly underestimated as a debate opponent based on her history in Alaska.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:08 PM

Looks like we're arguing semantics here. So I will rephrase...

The police department, under Sarah Palin, refused to pay for the rape kits upon which the investigation of rapes is dependent, which forced the victims of rape to have to pay for the kits themselves if they wanted the rapes to be investigated.


Gee... doesn't really look any better when phrased that way than when phrased the other way.

And just because it's done in North Carolina, doesn't make it right when done in Alaska. I wouldn't vote for the lawmakers in my state who support forcing rape victims to pay for their own investigations either.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:03 PM

Ebbie:

Yes, I did. It should have been obvious from my expression of regret that I am fully aware that I did, so why you felt it necessary to point it out redundantly escapes me.

Bruce: you are confusing "liking" with trust. I like the lady just fine. I wouldn't trust her to manage a bank account, though.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:03 PM

This election campaign is charged with high emotion from all sides of the spectrum. There are lies being spread about all the candidates. It seems like it is worse this election than it has ever been. The internet can be a great source for checking facts, but also a major tool for spreading lies. I'll be glad when this is all over.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 02:49 PM

The hospital does the exam and passes the charge on normally to the law enforcement department, which, in Wasilla, decided to make it a POLICY to pass the charge on to the victim or their insurance to pay. Whether anyone was raped during that time is actually not the point. The point is, Police Chief Fannon defended his policy. Even though he expressed an intent to charge the rapist later, that was not the policy.


As I said, Palin has said in writing she does not believe in charging victims for rape kits.

Here is the article from the local Wasilla paper when governor Knowles signed the sexual assault bill and the chief Fannon expressed his disagreement with the bill.

http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 02:21 PM

Amos rarely lets truth or decency get in the way of a dig at those he dislikes- but he stands fully behind all requirements for everyone else to maintain both when discussing those he supports.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 01:04 PM

'it would have been better not to post it, I suppose.'

But you did!

However respect for the truth and/or decency seem to be in very short supply on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:53 PM

I sympathize, Emma; it would have been better not to post it, I suppose.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:53 PM

Alice virtually NONE of that NYT story is true as any quick check could confirm.

There was never any evidence that victims were being charged by any police departments including Wasilla's Police Department under Palin.
Testimony instead indicates it was hospitals that attempted to bill victims on rare occasions of insensitivity.

In addition protective mechanisms were in place in Alaska that would have picked up the cost of such kits, even if State law had not changed in 2000.

The State of Alaska Violent Crimes Compensation Board (VCCB) was "was established in 1971 by the Alaskan Legislature to help bring financial relief to innocent victims of violent crimes in Alaska."

Among the things the VCCB would pay for are the medical bills of victims of violent crimes (including sexual assaults), counseling, and transportation to medical and counseling services.

A former worker with VCCB notes

'Rape kits and other medical expenses of this type would be paid by the VCCB, 100% guaranteed. The City of Wasilla could have technically 'charged' the victim but even if they did, the VCCB would have paid the bill in full. I still know the a few of the Board members and the supervisor and I can tell you that they are very liberal with the way that they pay the victims bills.'

The 'rumour still lives' because people whose main concern is to portray Palin as some kind of human demon, far from refuting her actual views, are detirmined to use any kind of despicable lies and sick 'humour' for character assasination.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:44 PM

rather harsh? - it's sick!

....but then I suppose as someone who has worked with parents and developmentally handicapped children throughout moments of personal despair and small triumphs, I have no 'sense of humour'!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM

No, Em, not all of that NYTimes opinion piece was true - it does show that the rumor still lives in spite of Palin stating in writing that she does not agree with charging victims for rape kits.

The false tangents of this story are still spinning because people DO fear that abortion will become illegal under McCain/Palin.

Palin is part of a religious movement that believes emergency contraception is abortion. There are people in this country who are willing to kill and have killed doctors who provide abortions. The emotions around this issue on both sides are high. The rumors about the rape kit story (and connecting it to the issue of emergency contraception after a rape) are a red flag and will probably keep spinning, just as the false rumors about the other presidential ticket keep spinning.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:33 PM

The Onion (parody site) offers this rather harsh piece called "Palin's Rebuttal":

"Shhhh!

Could you please stop tearing apart my record so loudly? I just put my special needs child down for a nap. You remember my poor, Down syndrome baby, don't you? The developmentally disabled child I carried to term despite knowing that he had special needs? The child who would be helpless without my constant care and attention? Well, he's just nodded off, and if you continue to provide such damning evidence of my inexperience in both foreign and domestic policy, you'll wake him.

You wouldn't want him to start crying, would you?

It's very rude of you to keep pointing out the myriad reasons I am unfit to be the governor of Alaska, much less vice president of the United States of America, when you know my Down syndrome–afflicted son is trying to get some much-needed rest. If you wanted to question my qualifications as a leader, you should have thought of that sooner, like, say, before I gave birth to a retarded child who would probably starve to death if I weren't so selflessly and courageously dedicated to him.

Actually, he'll probably be sleeping for a while, so maybe it would be best if you came back later. Perhaps this afternoon, or in a couple of months. It's just that he gets so tired having to struggle with even the simplest tasks that you and I take for granted. Because my special needs son has Down syndrome, you see. My child has Down syndrome. And, as the mother of a baby with Down syndrome, I would appreciate it if you stopped bringing up my nonexistent energy plan while he sleeps there, like an angel.

My beautiful, special needs angel.

I assure you, I have every intention of responding to your claims. Sarah Palin does not run from a challenge. Like the challenge of raising a child with Down syndrome. That's what I've been doing for five months now, and let me tell you, it is hard work. But I wouldn't trade a moment of it for anything in the world, not even for more time to respond to the gaping holes you've just punched in my candidacy. Did I mention he has Down syndrome?

Now, if you'll please back away quietly without saying anything else—especially about my recent comments regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and how they illustrate my complete lack of even a basic understanding of our economy—I'll forget this whole thing ever happened.

And so will my vote-stealing retard baby"...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:32 PM

"It will pay for a broader study of violence against Natives and American Indian women, Murkowski said. That could provide better statistics, giving decision makers a greater case to argue for increased funding.

I know.... thread drift    but......."



               Not really. Not if this is where the excess numbers are coming from.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 12:09 PM

Is there some rule that says if it's printed in the New York Times (and posted here not once but twice in 24 hours!) it must be true? - even when it is a report based on the 'prolonged, hate-filled, liberal rant' of a small obscure misogynistic blog dedicated to stopping 'monsters' like Sarah Palin'


However in the REAL WORLD away from these viral smears.....

Carol is correct in stressing the astonishing statistic that Alaska has 2.2 times the national average of forcible rape cases

An AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL report as recently as 2007 reported that one in three Alaska Native and American Indian women will be raped during their lifetime.

The study cites "shockingly high" Justice Department statistics that Native women throughout the whole of the United States are 2.5 times more likely to be raped than other U.S. women,

They found that Federal authorities have created a "maze of tribal, state and federal jurisdictions" that slows response times and limits who can respond'
Sexual assaults and rapes on reservations sometimes get lost in "jurisdictional vacuums," allowing some perpetrators to "rape with impunity."

In Alaskan villages, plus dozens of others with unarmed local officers and limited authority, sexual assaults can't be investigated until troopers arrive from larger communities.
That can take hours, sometimes days in stormy or foggy weather, allowing crucial evidence to disappear.

Walt Monegan, public safety commissioner, acknowledged there's not enough law enforcement in Alaska.
He's drafting plans to create a system that will encourage villagers to become local officers and, eventually, state troopers.

Spokeswoman Sharon Leighow said that Governor Palin "has heard the message from the rural communities that they need more law enforcement" and is working with Monegan to increase law enforcement there

However the problem is not limited to remote villages.

For example, Alaska Native people in Anchorage were 9.7 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than others living in the city between 2000 and 2003, according to one study cited in the report.

The report also suggested that Congress fully fund and implement the Violence Against Women Act of 2005. Co-sponsored by Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, it reauthorized an old law, but included a new provision to put more money toward violence against Indian and Native women.

It will pay for a broader study of violence against Natives and American Indian women, Murkowski said. That could provide better statistics, giving decision makers a greater case to argue for increased funding.

I know.... thread drift    but.......

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM

The new Bill that came into effect in Alsaka in 2000 made law enforcement agencies that are investigating a sexual assault responsible for the costs of testing victims for sexually transmitted diseases and emergency contraception.

Fannon, the police chief at the time, estimated that the new law would 'cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for (all) sexual assault cases.'

Consequently he was quoted as saying, in his opinion,

'Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs'
'The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things.'

However, there is officially NO evidence that following the introduction of the 2000 legislation any rape victim was billed and no one (despite what would probably be considerable inducements) has come forward to corroberate that any victim was actually charged at any time during Palin's tenure as mayor as the records indicate.

To claim otherwise is hardly 'irrelevant'.


Maybe it's also worth noting this article.....

'Rape victims across the state are paying for their ill fortune in the most tangible of ways: a bill for the evidence kit needed to lock up the rapist. The vast majority of the 3,000 or so emergency room patients examined for sexual assaults each year shoulder some of the cost of a rape kit test, according to state records and victim advocates. For some, it's as little as a $50 insurance co-payment. For those without insurance, it's hundreds of dollars left when a state program designed to help reaches its limit.'

The news from Anchorage?

NO this is from The North Carolina News Observer, February 13, 2008
and.....

'It's been a problem for a long time," says Ilse Knecht, deputy director of public policy at the National Center for Victims of Crime. "We've heard so many stories of victims paying for their exams, or not being able to and then creditors coming after them."

Knecht says she's recently heard from caseworkers in Illinois, Georgia, and Arkansas reporting that rape victims continue to be charged for their forensic exams.'

on Health and Money US News February 21, 2008

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 11:13 AM

"Ms. Palin's handpicked police chief, Charlie Fannon, acknowledged the practice of billing to collect evidence for sexual-assault cases."

I've been following the issue of the rape kits on an Alaska discussion forum.

When Palin was mayor, her police chief made this a high profile issue that was covered in the local Wasilla paper. She had to have known about the charges because she also signed for them.

Part of the problem for Palin would be if emergency contraception was offered a the same time as rape evidence was collected (which sometimes happens). She is against such contraception. Another point is that the local police STARTED charging during Palin's time as mayor. It was not something that had been ongoing from the past.

"The local hospital did the billing, but it was the town that set the policy, Mr. Croft noted. That policy was reflected in budget documents that Ms. Palin signed."

"In the absence of answers, speculation is bubbling in the blogosphere that Wasilla's policy of billing rape victims may have something to do with Ms. Palin's extreme opposition to abortion, even in cases of rape. Sexual-assault victims are typically offered an emergency contraception pill, which some people in the anti-choice camp wrongly equate with abortion."

full article here:
New York Times Sept 25

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 10:24 AM

No there's this:


(US News) The quote of the day comes from Rep. Alcee Hastings, a Florida Democrat who, according to Fox News, told a Jewish audience to beware of Gov. Sarah Palin (Sen. John McCain's vice presidential running mate) because " 'anybody toting guns and stripping moose don't care too much about what they do with Jews and blacks....

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:25 PM

However, I think that the question of whether or not any women were billed for their rape kits during Palin's time as mayor is irrelevant. The important thing is that the policy of billing the victim for her investigation would have a chilling effect on women being willing to report their having been raped in a town in the state that has the highest number of rape incidents per capita of any state in the US, and that the town of Wasilla during Palin's term as mayor was extremely reluctant to adopt the law requiring towns to pay for rape kits.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM

From the link in my last post...

"In the past, we've charged the cost of the exams to the victim's insurance company when possible," Fannon was quoted as saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

'From the beginning of 1996 until the end of 2000, there were 49 reported sexual assaults in Wasilla, which "includes all associated sex crimes."'

There are no figures given on how many of these 'assaults' were, in fact, defined as rape.

However the current Wasilla Police Chief Angela Long has publicly stated

"A review of files and case reports within the Wasilla Police Department has found no record of sexual assault victims being billed for forensic exams"

Having seen the attitudes to sexual harrassment of women by the self styled 'comedian' who started this rumour I think I prefer to believe the Police Chief Angela Long!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:03 PM

This article has a quote from the Police Chief that Palin hired admitting that he and his department billed rape victims. The Police Cheif whom Palin fired before him says that during his tenure, the city paid for the kits...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/21/palin.rape.exams/index.html

I would imagine that the prospect of having to go through a lot of red tape to get their insurance companies to pay for the kits would also deter a lot of women from reporting their having been raped.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:52 PM

If rapists were smart, they'd sneak around and figure out which people didn't have health insurance before deciding on a victim.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 02:50 PM

Maybe the reason there's no record of rape victims being billed is because rape victims were discouraged from reporting their having been raped because they would have to pay for their own investigation. And it's important to keep in mind that there is almost fifty million people in the US who have no health insurance of any kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM

Add Mitt Romney's voice to those expressing at least a modicum of dissatisfaction about the rollout of Gov. Sarah Palin in her first month as the Republican vice-presidential nominee. He expressed confidence that Ms. Palin would be able to "hold her own" in the debate this Thursday night against the Democratic vice-presidential nominee, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr.

But on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," Mr. Romney — while not criticizing her TV interviews as others have for their substance or lack thereof — seemed to blame some of her stumbles on the McCain campaign staff. Asked by Andrea Mitchell whether he agreed with some conservatives' calls for Ms. Palin to drop off the ticket, Mr. Romney said he concurred with conservative writer Kathryn Jean Lopez of the National Review:

"I think Kathryn Lopez had it right," he said. "Holding Sarah Palin to just three interviews and microscopically focusing on each interview I think has been a mistake. I think they'd be a lot wiser to let Sarah Palin be Sarah Palin. Let her talk to the media, let her talk to people.
"Look, she wasn't selected by John McCain because she's an expert in foreign policy," he added. "John McCain's the expert in foreign policy … She's a person who identifies with people with homes across America."

Still, the bad reviews, the parodies on shows like "Saturday Night Live" and commentary about Ms. Palin's readiness to be vice president, let alone president, kept pouring in over the weekend. At Newsweek, Fareed Zakaria's headline was "Palin is Ready? Please."


He wrote: "Palin has been given a set of talking points by campaign advisers, simple ideological mantras that she repeats and repeats as long as she can. ("We mustn't blink.") But if forced off those rehearsed lines, what she has to say is often, quite frankly, gibberish."

And, as Ms. Mitchell noted this morning, The Times's David Brooks called her candidacy "embarrassing."

Ouch.

Senator McCain himself confronted a Palin moment — pretty much akin to one of those Biden moments Mr. Obama has had to deal with — when the Republican nominee was interviewed on ABC's "This Week" with George Stephanoupolos. Mr. McCain walked back what Ms. Palin — in a rare impromptu moment in Philadelphia — said about going into Pakistan, along the same veins that Mr. McCain had just chastised Mr. Obama about in their Friday night debate:

Mr. Stephanopoulos: She says, "If that's what we have to do stop the terrorists from coming any further in, absolutely, we should."

Mr. McCain: She would not — she shares my view that we will do whatever is necessary. The problem is, you don't announce it. You don't — you don't say to the Pakistanis, "We're coming in unilaterally and carry out operations." Teddy Roosevelt, speak softly but carry a big stick. She shares my view on that. That's just — that's fundamentals of knowledge and maturity and judgment.
…
Mr. Stephanopoulos: So she shouldn't have done it?
…
Mr. McCain: This business of, in all due respect, people going around and — with sticking a microphone while conversations are being held, and then all of a sudden that's — that's a person's position, this is a free country, but I don't think most Americans think that that's a definitive policy statement made by Governor Palin. And I would hope you wouldn't, either.

Well, granted, the senator is far more accustomed to having a microphone in his face; in fact, he's often taken advantage of its availability, although not recently.

Yet others have the sense that he would be better-served to tutor her in his facility with the media glare. They tend to believe that the McCain-Palin ticket would benefit from giving Ms. Palin almost a karaoke microphone, and that it's been a mistake — as Mr. Romney suggested today — to keep her so bottled up that she can't become more accustomed to the old-style, free-wheeling straight-talk. So what if she's not a foreign policy wonk?, some ask.

In a column in The Times today, William Kristol talked about Mr. McCain's own concerns about Governor Palin's recent missteps, or perceived problems:

With respect to his campaign, McCain needs to liberate his running mate from the former Bush aides brought in to handle her — aides who seem to have succeeded in importing to the Palin campaign the trademark defensive crouch of the Bush White House. McCain picked Sarah Palin in part because she's a talented politician and communicator. He needs to free her to use her political talents and to communicate in her own voice.

I'm told McCain recently expressed unhappiness with his staff's handling of Palin. On Sunday he dispatched his top aides Steve Schmidt and Rick Davis to join Palin in Philadelphia. They're supposed to liberate Palin to go on the offensive as a combative conservative in the vice-presidential debate on Thursday.

From Palin's Perils


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM

Sorry: "proposals" and "domestic"...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM

I suggest your friends examine the porposals and policy propositions of the two and vote according to the best understanding of those issues they can reach, on the basis of which policies will do the most to ameliorate domesting and international conditions of the nation.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 12:53 PM

The non-partisan site that covers rumors on all sides of the political campaign is below. I've posted this link previously on mudcat (can't remember which one of the threads it is in).

http://factcheck.org/

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

useful checklist

a quick 'reality check' could save considerable space in this, and other, threads

rumour no 72 - the Chief of Police in Wasilla (not Palin) did apparently have a policy of asking a victim's health insurance to pay for the rape kit as part of the ER visit.
This, it turns out, is policy in a number of states, including Missouri and North Carolina.
Second, the way this became an issue was after the then-governor of Alaska signed a bill forbidding it; this law was signed before Palin was Governor and no one tried to reverse it while she was Governor. Third, what the CoP in Wasilla wanted to do was charge the perpetrator as part of restitution.

so far the list reaches 84!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM

Fine, Amos.

You are partisan.

I am partisan.


My friends note that your behaviour does not lead them to wish to support your candidate. Not my decision- they consider McCain to be a bad choice, but better than the only realistic alternative that they have seen, given the comments by both sides supporters.


They are still moderates: They have NOT committed to any side yet. (One would vote Nader, the other Barr, if they didn't think that their votes might make a difference)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:18 AM

Partisan? Hey, I am partisan in this election pal, because the "partisan" shards of a ruined nation keep drifting down around my ears. My "partisan" bias is toward trying to resurrect the survival of the country when it is being shaken to death by the greedy little terriers of the ideologues in the present Administration. My "partisan" bias is trying to change unwanted conditions to bring about a better future. If the Democratic party, the Indpeendent Party or even the Republican party get behind that principle, they win my approval. In the present contest, the Republicans have not done so.    You want "partisan" bias, try viewing a rerun of "Sarah Does the RNC". Drill baby, drill!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:58 AM

"I am just trying to correct your implication, attributed to your invisible friends, that there is some irrational drive behind what I do here. I find it snarky and bilious despite your own pretense "

Amos,

It is not an irrational drive, it is a blatent partisan viewpoint that they have observed. They understand whay you act this way, and finf your behaviour similar to that of the far Right. But they have decided that the comments you make, with your protestations that you do NOT represent the extreme Left indicate that the support for Obama seems ( to them) to be more extreme then they care to vote with.