BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

Your statement is quite hard to understand, BB. I said --in response to your accusation of being over-influenced by the NYT--that a standard of reasonable logic and an eye to consequences of actions taken is a workable starting point, and I further state that the elections of 2000 and 2004 were taken by force and deception instead. In many cases: the invasion unilaterally of Iraq, the suppression of dissent, the suppression of press communication, the effort to politically manipulate science, the mismanagement and favoritism that left the national emergency response machinery inept and impotent, the politicization of justice, the falsification of press commmunications by buying reports, the corrosion of COnstitutional principles, the violation of moral principles in dealing with combatants, the mismanagement ofm ilitary logistics, tactics and strategy, and the aggressive pursuit of ignorance in matters of international dynamics -- in all these things, Bush's administrators made the nation worse by selecting the wrong importances, choosing the wrong targets, and failing to understand the consequences of their own actions.

I am just trying to correct your implication, attributed to your invisible friends, that there is some irrational drive behind what I do here. I find it snarky and bilious despite your own pretense that it is just "sharing with friends".

SOmetimes, though, I wonder why I bother.

A


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:47 AM

VP is only a part time job. If she becomes President, W has proved the Pesidency is also a part time job with about two years worth of vactaion over 8 years.

Think of it, 8 years out of your life, 20 years out of your income and 50 years of fouling the reputation of the USA. And Eternity for all those who died from his lies and declarations.

Still he was the greatest thing since cold Champagne for all the super wealthy who had and will continue to have a free unregulated ride.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:44 AM

"If the Bushites of 2000 and 2004 had adhered to such a standard, instead of looking for the best cheerleader or the most electrifying hate-monger to follow in their herd, the nation would have been far better off today."

From your constant harping, I will take the above to mean that, had they done as you are doing, they would have lost in those elections (since IYO the nation would ONLY be better off if they were NOT elected.). I don't think that was what you meant to say, but it is what is being stated by you.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:39 AM

They might note that in that regard, while I often cite the particularly articulate and reasoned views expressed in the Times, I often include other sources. My bias is not toward any one outlet, but toward reasonable assessments of the futures involved in present decisions. If the Bushites of 2000 and 2004 had adhered to such a standard, instead of looking for the best cheerleader or the most electrifying hate-monger to follow in their herd, the nation would have been far better off today.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:14 AM

I show them the entire thread(s), and let them read them.


They have noted that the NYT figures prominantly in telling you what to think.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 10:13 AM

Gee, Bruce, do you show them your buile too? Or Rig's irrational snideries?

Or do you stick to the usual bias?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 09:36 AM

My apologies for not factchecking the rape-kits story myself.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 09:13 AM

btw if you want an example of the views expressed on Stop All Monsters (described by one of his supporters Easyfiend as
"basically a prolonged, hate-filled, liberal rant, but done in a loving way".

here is a blog from July

Posted by DA at 12:59 AM 0 comments
7/30/2008

Russian Judge Figures Out Sexual Harrassment

Finally, a voice of reason in the sexual harrassment debate. A 22-year-old woman in St. Petersberg, Russia, brought a case against her employer because she was locked out of the office after she refused to have sex with him. Thankfully, the judge was a genius.

The judge said he threw out the case not through lack of evidence but because the employer had acted gallantly rather than criminally.

"If we had no sexual harassment we would have no children," the judge ruled.

Bam. Case closed. I don't want to hear another word about this nonsense, ladies. Now, let's get back to "work."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 08:41 AM

As I have stated, I am showing these threads to my undecided friends.

A good rant by Amos or Bobert usually gets them seriously thinking about voting for McCain/Palin, in reaction to the bile.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 08:32 AM

The false attacks by MoveOn.org and others give her traction. When something like this is exposed, the right-wing-religious-wackos go into high gear. In the end, it will probably be MoveOn that gets her elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 08:15 AM

The report that Palin's town charged for rape exams is true enough, in that that Wasilla was one of several small Alaskan police forces with limited budgets that found it difficult to deal with the cost of forensic medical examinations. Wasilla had a policy of allowing the City to bill victims (or more likely, their insurers) for rape kits, which can cost up ot $1,000.

The policies allowing billing the victims in ALL these small towns was finally outlawed by the state in 2000.

Palin was mayor of Wasilla from 1996 until the time the state law (AS 18.68.040) banned the practice of charging victims August 12, 2000.

A subsequent enquiry detirmined....

'The Finance Department searched all financial records on our system for fiscal year 2000, 2001 and 2002. There are no records of billings to or collections from rape victims or their insurance companies in our system. The financial computer system goes back to the beginning of fiscal year 2000, and accounts receivable backup documentation goes back six (6) years per our records retention schedule.

A review of files and case reports within the Wasilla Police Department has found no record of sexual assault victims being billed for forensic exams. State law AS 18.68.040, which was effective August 12, 2000, would have prohibited any such billings after that date.'

Police Chief Long has stated that from 1996 to 2000
"A review of files and case reports within the Wasilla Police Department has found no record of sexual assault victims being billed for forensic exams"

So where did this 'story' come from?

'The entire "scandal" seems to have been manufactured around September 9, possibly from a small obscure blog called Stop All Monsters

The blog, features a tagline of "A blog dedicated to rooting out and stopping all monsters. Sarah Palin, for instance," has only been in existence since July, and is written by a character who claims to be a writer/stand-up comedian based in Los Angeles.

The fact that it has been disemminated so rapidly and throughly even making the mainstream media is more worrying.

The fact that people desperately have a need to believe it and urge others to do so is more worrying still.

I dislike Sarah Palin's opinions but please attack the truth of these and NOT the 'monster' created by disguised elements of the 'opposition'

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:14 AM

Well, they needed to free up some funds for Sarah's sports complex.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:05 AM

Sarah and the Rape Kit Billing Scheme

Even in tough budget times, there are lines that cannot be crossed. So I was startled by this tidbit reported recently by The Associated Press: When Sarah Palin was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, the small town began billing sexual-assault victims for the cost of rape kits and forensic exams.


Ms. Palin owes voters an explanation. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:40 PM

"Where is Spinoza when we need him?"


                      Spin who?


   "I have almosr no doubt but that he has two heads;..."


                   Two heads are better than one, what?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:15 PM

Someday I must meet Riginslinger. I have almosr no doubt but that he has two heads; he definitely has two faces. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:13 PM

So Rig has now revealed his philosophical belief that lying, self-serving maneuvers in office, and aggressive know-nothingness, and meandering into extreme religions with bigoted belief systems is the ultimate model of an AMerican citizen.


Sigh.

Where is Spinoza when we need him?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 08:52 PM

"paragon" in same sentence with Palin? gag, guffaw

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 08:40 PM

"I wonder why she did so much better with Sean Hannity?" Rig

Who bothered to watch? Did you?

Actually I saw part of it (on the computer) but other than my impression of Hannity-sleaze, I honestly don't remember one quesiton. Or one answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 08:00 PM

She was a cheerleader in high school somewaht like George Bush.

Many people stil do not know of W's football cheerleading skills.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 07:50 PM

"As a woman, I sincerely can say Palin is an embarrassment to all women."

             As an American I can sincerely say that Palin is a paragon of American citizenry.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 04:07 PM

It is not all her fault. She has obviously been humored and given the benifit of doubt her entire adult life. She has now entered an arena in which there is no room for doubt or coddling.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:36 PM

I would be embarrassed to ever admit it if I voted on that basis primarily.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:41 PM

Amos, some repubs are claiming women will vote for her just because she is a woman. Some may, but in general, that idea is ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:38 PM

Well, I don't think, generally speaking, that her doltishness is attributed to her woman-ness, Alice. At least I don't think of it that way. A dolt is a dolt even without lipstick.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:36 PM

As a woman, I sincerely can say Palin is an embarrassment to all women.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:23 PM

Kathleen Parker explains why Palin should go home and spend more time with her family.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 01:13 PM

You're assuming the electorate will come to that conclusion? The ones who are clinging to their guns and religion in Pennsylvania and Ohio?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:54 AM

They've generated so much awareness of her ignorance, she doesn't stand a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 11:49 AM

They're going to generate so much sympathy for Sarah Palin, Obama won't stand a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:57 AM

Last night SNL skit, Tina Fey returns... Palin interviewed by Couric.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:44 AM

Wonderful!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:29 AM

Palin Gets the Full Philly Treatment: "Hey Hockey Mom -- Keep the Puck out of PA"

September 27, 2008 1:15 PM

Someone had the bright idea of sending Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to the Irish Pub on Walnut Street in downtown Philly before the debate yesterday.

More than 400 McCain-Palin supporters were in the bar waiting for her; more than 300 McCain-Palin opponents were outside the bar, heckling her on as Philadelphians know how to do.

Sporting a red Phillies jacket, over a white t-shirt that read "Sarahcuda," Palin entered the bar to the protestors chanting "Obama! Obama!"

Some set off flares.

They held up signs: "McSame/Failin';" "Hey Hockey Mom -- keep the puck out of PA;" "Just like Bush in lipstick."


full article: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/palin-gets-the.html


click

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 07:55 AM

"They were not hardball questions, and they were asked quite politely--even kindly."


                I wonder why she did so much better with Sean Hannity?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:25 AM

It's definitely true that she couldn't answer the question about McCain's achievements as a big business regulator. Which, I think, says a lot about both of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:06 AM

Did you actually watch the interview? They were not hardball questions, and they were asked quite politely--even kindly. You can't rationalize this blithering by blaming it on the interviewer this time. And if she wants to be Veep, she surely ought to be able to handle Katy Couric with her kid gloves on.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 11:34 PM

"'In a 40-minute session with Couric that aired Wednesday and Thursday nights, the Alaska governor defended her puzzling claim that geographic proximity makes her some sort of expert on Russia; went nearly blank when queried about McCain's achievements as a big-business regulator; agreed America "may find itself" on the road to another Great Depression; and, promoting a troop surge in Afghanistan, casually suggested that it "will lead us to victory there, as it has proven to have done in Iraq.'"


                     All of which is true. The difference being that Couric--being the shrew that she has demonstrated herself to be used more "gotcha" questions that did Gibson.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 09:46 PM

The economic crisis and John McCain's surprising response have drawn attention away from the Republican vice presidential nominee just as she has started to answer more pointed questions from the media.

Her third nationally televised interview, with CBS anchor Katie Couric, found Palin rambling, marginally responsive and even more adrift than during her network debut with ABC's Charles Gibson.

In a 40-minute session with Couric that aired Wednesday and Thursday nights, the Alaska governor defended her puzzling claim that geographic proximity makes her some sort of expert on Russia; went nearly blank when queried about McCain's achievements as a big-business regulator; agreed America "may find itself" on the road to another Great Depression; and, promoting a troop surge in Afghanistan, casually suggested that it "will lead us to victory there, as it has proven to have done in Iraq."

(LAT)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 09:10 PM

No, Rig, I do not. Michele Obama is an intelligent, highly competent and educated woman with a strong and well-informed interest in all aspects of our national life.

Sarah is a Roller Derby Queen.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 08:26 PM

You mean Michelle, I take it!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 07:52 PM

Anyway, it is getting clearer and clearer that she is a train wreck.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 06:37 PM

Yeah, well Lyndon Johnson poisoned everybody's meat!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM

One man's meat is another man's poisson, I allus sez.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 02:58 PM

"Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson became extraordinary presidents in their own right."


                No they didn't. Lyndon Johnson was a disaster!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 02:05 PM

Bob Herbert opines:

..."The country is understandably focused on the financial crisis. But there is another serious issue in front of us that is not getting nearly enough attention, and that's whether Sarah Palin is qualified to be vice president — or, if the situation were to arise, president of the United States.


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History has shown again and again that a vice president must be ready to assume command of the ship of state on a moment's notice. But Ms. Palin has given no indication yet that she is capable of handling the monumental responsibilities of the presidency if she were called upon to do so.

In fact, the opposite is the case. We know that there are some parts of Alaska from which, if the day is clear and your eyesight is good, you can actually see Russia. But the infantile repetition of this bit of trivia as some kind of foreign policy bona fide for a vice presidential candidate should give us pause.

The McCain campaign has done its bizarre best to shield Ms. Palin from any sustained media examination of her readiness for the highest offices in the land, and no wonder. She has been an embarrassment in interviews.

But the idea that the voters of the United States might install someone in the vice president's office who is too unprepared or too intellectually insecure to appear on, say, "Meet the Press" or "Face the Nation" is mind-boggling.

The alarm bells should be clanging and warning lights flashing. You wouldn't put an unqualified pilot in the cockpit of a jetliner. The potential for catastrophe is far, far greater with an unqualified president.

The United States has been lucky in terms of the qualifications of the vice presidents who have had to step in over the last several decades for presidents who either died or, in Richard Nixon's case, were forced to leave office. Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson became extraordinary presidents in their own right. Gerald Ford successfully guided the nation through the immediate aftermath of one of the most traumatic political crises in its history.

For those who think Sarah Palin is in that league, there is no problem. But her unscripted public appearances would lead most honest observers to think otherwise. When asked again this week about her puerile linkage of foreign policy proficiency and Alaska's proximity to Russia, this time by Katie Couric of CBS News, here is what Ms. Palin said she meant:

"That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side, the land — boundary that we have with — Canada."

She went on, but lost her way midsentence: "It's funny that a comment like that was kind of made to — cari — I don't know, you know? Reporters ..."

Ms. Couric said, "Mocked?"

"Yeah, mocked," said Ms. Palin. "I guess that's the word. Yeah."

It is not just painful, but frightening to watch someone who could become the vice president of the United States stumbling around like this in an interview.

Ms. Couric asked Ms. Palin to explain how Alaska's proximity to Russia "enhances your foreign policy credentials."

"Well, it certainly does," Ms. Palin replied, "because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of. And there—"

Gently interrupting, Ms. Couric asked, "Have you ever been involved in any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?"

"We have trade missions back and forth," said Ms. Palin. "We do. It's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the airspace of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to our state."

It was surreal, the kind of performance that would generate a hearty laugh if it were part of a Monty Python sketch. But this is real life, and the stakes couldn't be higher. As Ms. Palin was fumbling her way through the Couric interview, the largest bank failure in the history of the United States, the collapse of Washington Mutual, was occurring.

The press has an obligation to hammer away at Ms. Palin's qualifications. If it turns out that she has just had a few bad interviews because she was nervous or whatever, additional scrutiny will serve her well."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 11:34 PM

Sorry, people--some Mudcatters have been saying for a long time that McCain would ditch Palin, or she would withdraw. I said before that was wishful thinking. And it still is.

As I noted earlier, with Palin McCain has the best chance to accomplish both goals of any VP pick: 1) energize the base--especially important since McCain himself leaves the base rather tepid--and 2) appeal to at least some of the independents--since both McCain and Palin have gone against their own party at some points. With Palin, McCain may even get some Hillary voters--the ones who vote on number of x and y chromosomes--and have no clue--or don't care--about issues. And of course the ones--male and female--who only want their president to be a good drinking buddy.

But Palin is on the scene to stay. Any other idea is a pipe dream.

That doesn't mean she is not vulnerable. She sure is--especially on how her view of the "end times" influences her view of foreign policy--particularly how close she should be allowed to get to the nuclear button. Obama was grilled on Rev Wright. It's time for her to say how much she believes of what she heard in church.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 04:02 PM

God will answer her prayers and touch her with the gift of clarity, intelligence, omnicient oversight... Then she will withdrawl.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

Give her a break already, She is clearly smarter than Bush and Bush is a high functioning moron.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM

Conservative columnist tells Palin: "Bow out"

"Sarah Palin has seen better days. In fact, her performance recently is so bad that it made one former supporter not just rethink that position, but take to the Web site of the conservative National Review to call on Palin to step down from the Republican ticket.

In a column published Friday, Kathleen Parker writes:

As we've seen and heard more from John McCain's running mate, it is increasingly clear that Palin is a problem. Quick study or not, she doesn't know enough about economics and foreign policy to make Americans comfortable with a President Palin should conditions warrant her promotion ...

Palin's recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.

No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I've been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I've also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.

Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage and there's not much content there ... If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.

If Palin were a man, we'd all be guffawing, just as we do every time Joe Biden tickles the back of his throat with his toes. But because she's a woman -- and the first ever on a Republican presidential ticket -- we are reluctant to say what is painfully true ...

McCain can't repudiate his choice for running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP's unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability ...

Only Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first.

Do it for your country." (Salon)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:50 PM

If we can vote for pinch hitters, maybe the Democrats will get smart and replace Obama with Hillary.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:47 PM

I think they may ditch Sarah pretty soon and replace her. There will be some excuse like her family having a crisis.