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BS: Militant atheism has become a religion

Steve Shaw 08 Aug 13 - 02:53 PM
Ron Davies 08 Aug 13 - 08:36 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Aug 13 - 08:48 PM
GUEST,Musket again 09 Aug 13 - 12:15 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 13 - 11:02 AM
Ron Davies 10 Aug 13 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,musket calling Ron a c 10 Aug 13 - 02:33 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 10 Aug 13 - 04:49 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Aug 13 - 06:08 PM
GUEST,concerened 10 Aug 13 - 07:18 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Aug 13 - 07:52 PM
Acme 11 Aug 13 - 02:00 AM
GUEST,Musket evolving slowly 11 Aug 13 - 02:55 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Aug 13 - 08:33 AM
Acme 11 Aug 13 - 11:36 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Aug 13 - 06:43 PM
Ron Davies 12 Aug 13 - 12:22 PM
GUEST 12 Aug 13 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,Musket curious 12 Aug 13 - 01:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Aug 13 - 06:06 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Aug 13 - 06:06 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Aug 13 - 06:09 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Aug 13 - 06:22 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Aug 13 - 06:32 PM
GUEST,Musket between courses 12 Aug 13 - 07:38 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Aug 13 - 07:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Aug 13 - 05:14 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Aug 13 - 05:45 AM
bobad 13 Aug 13 - 07:06 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Aug 13 - 07:21 AM
Ron Davies 14 Aug 13 - 10:39 PM
Ron Davies 14 Aug 13 - 10:43 PM
GUEST,Musket being patriotic 15 Aug 13 - 03:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Aug 13 - 03:56 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 15 Aug 13 - 06:34 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Aug 13 - 08:08 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Aug 13 - 08:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Aug 13 - 08:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Aug 13 - 10:25 AM
GUEST,Musket sans blood of the Messiah 15 Aug 13 - 11:07 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Aug 13 - 03:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Aug 13 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,Musket curious 15 Aug 13 - 05:33 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Aug 13 - 05:38 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Aug 13 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Musket evolving slowly 16 Aug 13 - 02:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Aug 13 - 03:29 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Aug 13 - 05:42 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Aug 13 - 05:55 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 16 Aug 13 - 06:19 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Aug 13 - 02:53 PM

atheism makes precisely as much sense as fundamentalism, and for the same reason:   both assert more certainty than is justified.

No self-respecting bona fide atheist ever expresses certainty about God's non-existence. I haven't a clue whether God exists or not. But I've weighed up the evidence for and against (actually, there isn't any evidence "for", I've found). My conclusion is that the likelihood of his existing is so remote that I can cheerfully conduct my life without worrying about him. I can't "prove" whether there's a God or not, any more than the most stupidly-blind religious fundamentalist can. Richard Dawkins doesn't know whether there's a God or not. He cheerfully tells us that. The only certainties in these matters are expressed by believers, and by no means just fundamentalists. Every prayer said in the Mass is redolent with certainty about God's existence. Now you left your cassock on the back pew, so kindly remove it. It's got skidmarks on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Aug 13 - 08:36 PM

Well, I just heard something real interesting on the radio.

It seems clear some of our illustrious UK atheists tend to think of the US as being in the grip of firebreathing religious zealots.

In this light, it's noteworthy that a local atheist organization has convinced (no doubt monetary compensation was involved) a Minnesota team called the St. Paul Saints to play a game tomorrow night while calling themselves the Mr. Paul Ain'ts- with, I gather, jerseys etc. reflecting this.    Reaction of the team, fans, and others in the area--including strong believers:   no problem.

Just perhaps the ones who have no sense of humor about religion are some of our beloved UK atheists, who, in a country where approximately 5% percent of the population are regular churchgoers, have convinced themselves that they are a poor persecuted minority.    Can you say "absurd paranoia"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Aug 13 - 08:48 PM

I challenge you to find a single post in which an atheist has complained about being "persecuted" by believers. Perhaps we can find you an internship in our new Department Of Myth Creation. You seem to be bloody good at that! And wasn't that sporting story so, er...telling?


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket again
Date: 09 Aug 13 - 12:15 PM

Your idea wouldn't work over here.

Two reasons.

1. We have real sports, not rounders and rugby with body armour.

2. There is a word in our language called atheist. It isn't a positive assertion as it seems to be in Dumbfuckistan but means irreligious basically. Not sure how you field a team of 50 million......

Now if you don't mind, I'm busy writing the bits of our scripture dealing with screwing up people's minds and false hope. May have to plagiarise from those who are bloody good at it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 11:02 AM

Two shrimps, Crispin and Bob, mates for years, were toddling their way across the ocean bed when an enormous fish fish appeared above them; both of them make a dive under the nearest rock.
The fish says; "don't be afraid, I'm really a fairy Codmother and I'm empowered by the Codfather to grant you a wish".
Bob refuses to move but Crispin says, "I'm fed up with being small and shrimpy - I'd like to be a shark".
"Granted" - bang-flash! Crispin becomes a huge shark and swims away, leaving Bob on his own.
After a few years of swimming around on his own because all the other sea-creatures were too afraid to come near him he says to himself, "bugger this for a shark, I'll go and see if I can find that Codmother and try to get to turn me back into a shrimp".
After months and months of searching he eventually finds her and from the cockles of her heart, she returns him to his former self.
Back he swims to Bob's house - "Rockmount" - and knockes at the door.
Eventually Bob comes out and says, "What in Cod's name do you want after all this time - you swam off and left me to fend for myself - I've got new friends now - on your Pike?"
"You don't understand - can't we take up where we left off - I'm a born-again Crispin" now.
Back to your beds
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 11:23 AM

"certainty on God's existence".    But you reserve the right to constantly attack those who do believe.    While they, on Mudcat, are willing to live and let live. Sorry, your noses are growing.


And your attempts to muddy the water between atheism and skepticism are, in a word, pathetic, Either you are atheists or skeptics.    Sorry, this is not a Chinese menu.

It's fascinating that our Mudcat atheists (who are now attemptng to back away from the term--wonder why)---endorse that world-renowned scientist, Mr. Dawkins, who has accomplished so much in the field (even though the only science he seems to have mastered is the science of polemics), over that also-ran, Einstein.


Einstein on atheists:    "The fanatical atheists" (a good description for some of our contributors on this thread) "are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle.    They are creatures who--in their grudge against traditional religion as the "opium of the masses"--cannot hear the music of the spheres."    Seems to be a remarkably snug fit for Mr. Shaw, considering his background. And perhaps for others.

Einstein on science and religion, as I'm sure you've heard before:    "Science without religion is lame;   religion without science is blind".    Which is very likely the view of Joe and some others on Mudcat. In other words, both are essential.

Also:   "Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe--a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble."


Humble of course except for those who have all the answers already--like Mr. Dawkins and his yes-men amply represented on this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,musket calling Ron a c
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 02:33 PM

Nobody shifts from anything you lying git.

I said from post 1 of the pathetic God botherers threads to feel smug over their delusion that atheist is a term invented by those with imaginary friends to be able to stigmatise rational people for not being daft or vulnerable enough to fall for fairy stories.

Next.   Chinese menus are what you believe in not me.   If you take your point and apply it to yourself, you believe in having slaves, shagging prostitutes instead of wanking, killibg people for not sharing your delusion and all the rest of the repugnant bits of the Bible.

Luckily for society, you are all hypocrites, even the nice ones. Choosing from menus is a trait of those using Scripture to justify what they would be ashamed of without it.

Science is about discovering how things tick. Religion is making wild arsed guesses by desert dwellers a couple of thousand years ago and killing each other over interpretations before defending the bits that can't physically happen.

I know no atheists and if I did I would put them in the same boat as you. Someone who believes things without proof. I believe what I see work. Till someone comes up with a better idea of how it works.

I happen to be rather pleased with attaining a PhD in a scientific original thought concept. A small part of my thesis has since been revised by another thesis. I was on his viva hearing and was delighted to have him revise my thoughts through new interpretations.   Nothing sacred in science so what you read heard or made up is basically bollocks.

Nothing personal but keep your fairy in your head not on your keyboard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 04:49 PM

""Einstein on science and religion, as I'm sure you've heard before:    "Science without religion is lame;   religion without science is blind".    Which is very likely the view of Joe and some others on Mudcat. In other words, both are essential.""

Even for those who believe in a deity, religion is not essential, and often not even desirable.

All that is essential is faith, which is not the same as, nor even related to, religion.

The world's different religions (with just one or two exceptions) have been less concerned with faith and worship, than with control and internecine warfare.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 06:08 PM

While they, on Mudcat, are willing to live and let live.

Excuse me a minute.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh, and one more thing

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,concerened
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 07:18 PM

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Aug 13 - 07:52 PM

Ron, your last post is just a pile of bilious, disconnected, unfocussed tosh. Take my advice and stick to those short, pithy ones you're so "good" at. At least, being mercifully brief, they don't give you the chance to make an arse of yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Acme
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 02:00 AM

Steve Shaw wrote No self-respecting bona fide atheist ever expresses certainty about God's non-existence. I haven't a clue whether God exists or not. But I've weighed up the evidence for and against (actually, there isn't any evidence "for", I've found).

There's a reason I don't visit this thread - the back and forth is brutal, especially when it's a contest between thinkers vs believers (yes a low blow, but seems suited to this thread).

I'm an atheist and I'm convinced there is no god. I am not an agnostic (my mother used to tell me "say you're agnostic - it's more polite.") The liberal philosophical view of religion sees it as a way that cultures devised to get along, and how they respond to the unknown (superstition). They were critical to survival for illiterate and uneducated individuals who followed spiritual leaders with a religion that rose from the land and taught people when to plant and harvest and how to safely deal with food and the animals in their world; they established mores and folkways. But religions in urban areas are different than autochthonous religions and became all the more of a power and riches grab for the leaders. The industrial religions (christianity, judaism, muslim, primarily) hinge on maintaining control, not just of members of the religion, but of others who don't participate or believe. That's the problem - the insidious proselytizing and insistence that secular law reflect religious beliefs. And why separating church and state is more essential than ever.

Just checking in tonight to see if there is more spam than usual. Looks about normal.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 02:55 AM

And there, inadvertently, is the problem.

Do we all see yellow the same?   Do we all use the word atheist the same?

The former cannot by today's technology be answered and the latter never will because it is subjective.

Hence my getting a bit angry earlier with expressed stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 08:33 AM

It doesn't matter how horrid you think religions have been in controlling people's minds (and they have). That isn't evidence that God doesn't exist. I don't know whether God exists. That's as honest as I can be about it. Dawkins doesn't know either - he says as much. You say you're convinced there's no God. Well I could say that as well, and I live my life that way, but I can't be 100% convinced because the evidence against him, whilst extremely powerful, is not 100% conclusive, and never can be. If we want to use the word "atheist" at all, then I don't think you can really be "more atheist" than me! I try not to get too hung up over the word. 'Tain't a good characterisation of us, but at least we sort of know what we're talking about when we use it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Acme
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 11:36 AM

Steve, you're still showing evidence of having drunk that koolaid. Using uppercase "G" when discussing one god as is the belief of the industrial religions, and referring to "him." Saying that you accept there probably isn't a god but using the words put in place via the hegemony of the modern urban churches is a sign that they've managed to establish a level of influence on you. I feel no such influence. I can accept that good things happen to people and it isn't the result of a benign unseen fatherly hand, just as I understand that shit happens and it isn't the wrath of god.

There's a lot about human brains and about energy that we don't understand - I'd rather learn about them through the scientific method than let a church claim credit for interesting things that we view superstitiously.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 06:43 PM

I'm afraid that you're going to have to focus a little more carefully before I can glean what your bloody point is. And I have no idea what Coolaid is. I don't take drugs and I only post when I'm completely compos mentis, thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 12:22 PM

"No self-respecting bona fide atheist ever expresses certainty about God's non-existence".

Rather dubious, but let's go with it.

So, since that is the case, let's hear all the professed atheists on this thread admit publicly and individually that there is a chance God exists.

This should be entertaining.

And then you can tell us how you pledge to to refrain from attacking the beliefs of those who differ from your attitudes towards religion.   Since after all you have just admitted that the difference between your belief in God and their belief is a just a matter of degree. And there is a chance that they may be right and you may be wrong.

I'm sure that, being reasonable and civilized people, you have no problem in any of this.

However, I will not be holding my breath.

The statement which comprises the title of this immensely worthwhile and informative thread has been proven beyond doubt by our wonderful contributors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 12:39 PM

Stilly, you are absolutely right. This thread is bogus. It should never have been started in the first place and no one has learned anything valuable on it except to express ignorance, intolerance and outright stupidity. I personally don't care if a god exists or not. It's not important. What is important is that this thread has generated not tolerance or understanding but angry and violent outbursts with insults that make a mockery of any professed so-called "christian" behavior. Joe, take it off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 01:43 PM

Joe doesn't answer to you prat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:06 PM

So, since that is the case, let's hear all the professed atheists on this thread admit publicly and individually that there is a chance God exists.

Of course there is chance that god exists. There is a chance that the Easter bunny and Santa Claus exist too. The possibilities are endless which is what makes the universe such a fascinating place and one that should not be subjected to superstitious nonsense. What you cannot seem to understand, Ron, is that no-one on here is taking issue with believing in a god. In fact, we all want you too so we can cash in on it.

I cannot speak for the others but what I take exception too is someone forcing the view that god exists and created this world on other people. I have no issue at all with those who believe in god, the devil or the tooth fairy. But when they tell me that I have to do the same I will happily tell them to F Off. When they also think that they can bend the mind of my children and grand children to believe in their nonsense as well, not only will I tell them to F off, I will help them on their way with a boot up the arse.

Trouble is, Ron, in thinking you were so clever with your last post you only showed your ignorance of what atheism is. It means, to me, that I don't have to follow the rules of your, or anyone else's, imaginary friend. It means that I am happy to let you dance around the maypole, kneel down and face east, take it up the bum from your local priest and do whatever the hell you like. Then, if you try to convince me to do the same, take the piss out of you without any guilt whatsoever.

So...

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:06 PM

So, since that is the case, let's hear all the professed atheists on this thread admit publicly and individually that there is a chance God exists....

Yep, I'm a professed atheist, as implacable as they come. And I'm happy to admit that there's a chance God exists. Weeee!

...after all you have just admitted that the difference between your belief in God and their belief is a just a matter of degree. And there is a chance that they may be right and you may be wrong.

Well no, not really. I have neither a belief nor a disbelief in God. Faith, you see, has played no part in my arriving at my position. All I've done is weighed up the evidence. My enquiries managed to eliminate superstition, fear, magic, myth, tradition, ceremony, miracles ancient and modern, shrouds, relics of the true cross, edicts from holy men, dodgy ancient texts and the uncorroborated claims of supposed witnesses. As for just a matter of degree, what you're missing is my view that the possibility of God's existing is about the same as there being seven-legged little blue men living on Saturn's rings, or as there being a tribe of fairies in my garden who only come out at night. As I have no wish to align meself with those who harbour such religious certainty that their hymns, prayers and the way they miseducate their children reflect it, you won't get me to say those things are impossible. As for right and wrong, I don't give a damn. We can never know. If you think I'm just a bit further along some kind of imaginary belief spectrum than the general mass of Godsquadders, you've got it lamentably wrong (like everything else you sour-facedly spout about). Hope this helps!


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:09 PM

Impeccable timing, Dave. Almost...messianic, I'd say...


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:22 PM

I was obviously possessed by my Messiahs holy presence. And the dodgy DVD of Betty and the bingo caller you sent earlier...

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 06:32 PM

I thought you were the bingo caller until something happened to your ball bag in the car park...?


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket between courses
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 07:38 PM

Eyes down look in.   See the wonder of our creation!


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 07:43 PM

Yeah but no photocopying the bloody bingo card to save money, huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 05:14 AM

Errrr... No, it wasn't me. I don't look like that and I was only there metaphysically. Besides, I can't bend over like that at my age. It must have been a visitation by the holy spirits. Maybe Whisky and Gin?

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 05:45 AM

Actually, I was thinking of replacing stale communion wine containing priestly spittle with Talisker. All in favour? Though next time I try it I'm cleaning the chalice out meself first. Last time, I caught Swollox doing it with the bog brush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 07:06 AM

Oops!

"Religious people are less intelligent than non-believers, according to a new review of 63 scientific studies stretching back over decades.

A team led by Miron Zuckerman of the University of Rochester found "a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity" in 53 out of 63 studies. Even in extreme old age, intelligent people are less likely to believe, the researchers found - and the reasons why people with high IQs shun religion may not be as simple as previously thought."

Religious people are less intelligent than atheists, study finds


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 07:21 AM

Hmm. Much as I'd love to loudly applaud such a finding, I have to clench my voluminous buttocks when I read stuff like this:

A 1916 study quoted in Zuckerman's paper (Leuba) found that, "58% of randomly selected scientists in the United States expressed disbelief in, or doubt regarding the existence of God; this proportion rose to nearly 70% for the most eminent scientists."

Maybe I should read the study, but the above sentence is just weasel words. "Randomly-selected", huh? "Disbelief in or doubt"? "Most eminent"? Sounds suspiciously like popular proto-gutter-science to me, though, as I say, perhaps I should read that study. I'm disinclined for some reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 10:39 PM

Sorry, I've been busy elsewhere.   

Now, where were we? Ah yes.

As I've mentioned before, I don't have a dog in this fight. On religion I'm Laodicean (look it up--I'm glad to be able to play a small role in your continuing education.)

Yet again, I'm only interested in fair play.   Mudcat believers are willing to extend it to atheists, but some of our current atheist posters are for their own inscrutable reasons (are they Oriental, perhaps?) unwilling to return the favor.

It seems, based on the conduct of some UK atheists, that on the subject of religion the vaunted British sense of fair play is a fond memory.    On no provocation but their own paranoia, they constantly attack religion and the religious.   Since it's well known that an unmistakable field mark of the evangelist--even better than wing bars--is constantly attacking the perceived foe, some of our illustrious Mudcat atheists have proven over and over that they are evangelists for atheism. And they are just as charming as fundamentalist evangelists--and for the same reasons.

Only difference appears to be that on Mudcat there are no Christian evangelists, while we are blessed with several of the atheist pursuasion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Aug 13 - 10:43 PM

"willing to extend toleration to atheists..."


"persuasion"


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 03:15 AM

Keep banging the rocks together Ron. Also, do some reading up before touching your keyboard. Far less embarrassing all round. pete wouldn't br happy if you said he wasn't a Christian evangelist. We here on this thread meanwhile have invented another true religion. If it suits us and is convenient for delusional purposes, it can even be woven into Bible nonsense, just like a few hundred others were.

Hey co Messiah and associated Gnome! I may have found the true token woman. I bought her a milk stout last night and she agreed. Her name is Dodgy Dora and her knees don't get to see much of each other but her heart is in the right place she reckons. She may also come in handy when we write our section about spilling seed.

Snag is, she isn't quite certain if there is a real world outside Barnsley. She has seen the rest of the world on the telly but reckons it is all a studio set in Cudworth.   Her philosophy seems great for forming the bedrock of a religion.

She isn't into all that fair play nonsense either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 03:56 AM

On no provocation but their own paranoia, they constantly attack religion and the religious.

No provocation? How about 2000 and odd years of oppression, violence, torture, abuse, scheming, stealing, lying, cheating etc etc? Just how much provocation do you need?

Anyway, I am quote willing to forgive. Our new religion is all about love and peas. Particularly if the love is from Dodgy Dora and the peas come with fish and chips.

I can't remember what task you were given, Ron? If you are not too busy being run over by hoards of mad cyclists can you take on the role of the wild eyed hermit that comes in from the desert every now and again and spouts gibberish that the gullible can interpret as deep and meaningful? Sort of continue what you do so well?

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 06:34 AM

""On no provocation but their own paranoia, they constantly attack religion and the religious.""

Straw man strikes again!

Your prettily constructed perversion of the realities doesn't bear scrutiny once one looks at the identity of the original poster(s) on all of these "Atheists are evil" threads.

Not one has been started by an Atheist to attack the religious.

The reverse is the case. Every one has been started as a means to provoke a reaction from Atheists, so that the religious original poster can claim to be the victim of those nasty infidels.

I am not an Atheist, but rather than subscribe to what passes for religion among posters to this thread, I would join the Atheists' ranks.

They come across as much more honest and sincere than their opponents.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 08:08 AM

On no provocation but their own paranoia, they constantly attack religion and the religious.

But we never start these arguments, do we! And if I constantly attacked religion and the religious I'd have neither friends nor family. Organised religion is up for grabs as far as I'm concerned, and I don't mind attacking unreasonable behaviour or ludicrous claims for faith made in public, sending children to faith schools or denying evolution, for example.

This Dora, Musket. I happen to be currently looking for a gospel writer (she only needs to have vaguely heard of us as well as having a fertile imagination). Do you think she could keep her legs together for long enough to pen a trial chapter or two? We could call her efforts The Barnsley Scrolls, written in thick felt-tip on used chip wrappers. Obviously we'd have to pretend to "discover" them somewhere. Are there caves in Barnsley?

How's her hygiene, by the way? Once bitten and all that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 08:08 AM

On no provocation but their own paranoia, they constantly attack religion and the religious.

But we never start these arguments, do we! And if I constantly attacked religion and the religious I'd have neither friends nor family. Organised religion is up for grabs as far as I'm concerned, and I don't mind attacking unreasonable behaviour or ludicrous claims for faith made in public, sending children to faith schools or denying evolution, for example.

This Dora, Musket. I happen to be currently looking for a gospel writer (she only needs to have vaguely heard of us as well as having a fertile imagination). Do you think she could keep her legs together for long enough to pen a trial chapter or two? We could call her efforts The Barnsley Scrolls, written in thick felt-tip on used chip wrappers. Obviously we'd have to pretend to "discover" them somewhere. Are there caves in Barnsley?

How's her hygiene, by the way? Once bitten and all that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 08:17 AM

I don't fancy the Barnsley Scrolls. Sounds like an STD. Although, we are talking about friends of Musket...

No caves in Barnsley as far as I know. How about Mother Shiptons in Knaresborough or Stump Cross Caverns in Nidderdale? I quite like the sound of the latter myself.

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 10:25 AM

...Wookey hole sounds like somewhere you could get the Barnsley Scrolls as well.

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans blood of the Messiah
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 11:07 AM

No problem with the Barnsley scrolls these days. Quick course of antibiotics and Robert's yer Aunty's husband.

No caves in Barnsley? The Bush up at Kingston is dark, gets smaller as you go further into it and the wildlife stares at you from the edges. How more cave do you want?

Did a gig there once but more importantly some family friends used to have it. Spent time there as a lad.

Her hygiene is impeccable. Always takes her teeth out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 03:02 PM

Yebbut "Dead Sea Scrolls" sounds like middle-eastern gippy tummy and it worked for them. The Bush in Kingston sounds good to me. Hide the chip wrappers deep up there and protect the site with a scattering of dog turds (Leave 'em in those scrotaceous little plastic bags if you're squeamish - they look great dangling from low bushes). After a couple of weeks the scrolls will look suitably antiqued and we can get a lowly and simple little Barnsley shepherd lad to "discover" 'em. Easy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 05:23 PM

Brilliant work. Messiahs. I defer to your better judgement and Barnsley it is.

Did I ever tell you the tale of my returning from Barnsley via the Woodhead road and stopping of to wander around Crowden for a while? I had not long since given up smoking and was rather narked that one of the people I was visiting was hand rolling Golden Virginia in Rizla liquorice papers - My former weed of choice. On the way back to Salford I decided to unwind by parking up at Crowden hostel and walking up the path at the side of the brook for half an hour or so. Well, bugger me, I had not gone 20 yards when there, on a raised area at the side of the path and, I kid you not, lit up by an errant sunbeam, was a packet of Marlboro and a Zippo lighter! Well, I took it as sign from the gods (you bastards) that I was to start smoking again. So I did.

Stopped again later of course, but it was genuine divine intervention. Is it as good as ball lightning?

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 05:33 PM

Got caught short there once walking back to the camp site. Knackered having walked from Kinderscout. Perhaps the fags were there to keep the smell of results of dried instant food bags and mint cake away.   Sorry about that, circa 1986 if memory serves me well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 05:38 PM

Knackered having walked from Kinderscout

I know that feeling as well. My mate Dave (yes, another Gnome. We are all called Dave) and I had started at Edale and done the first part of the Pennine Way, over Kinder and Bleaklow, to end at Crowden car park. I kid you not when I say that had the car been parked at the other end of the car park I would not have made it!

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 06:49 PM

You can make out the well-named Bleaklow and Black Hill from my mum and dad's house, just about. Those dark and peaty wastes are not for me. anywhere 'twixt Settle and Ribblehead will do me. Did much botanising and rambling there in my yoof. I remember thinking what a bloody mistake it was to do the Three Peaks in brand-new unbroken-in boots. Ah, the folly of the young! Messiah's own country up there it is, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 02:08 AM

The 3 peaks has had anti erosion paths built over the years. You could possibly push a pram round it now. I did it two years ago with friends and bored them all the way with my "in my day, you did a scramble up this bit on hands and knees you know. Not this pussy cat proper bloody path you know. ..."

Back in 1982ish I clocked in at 10 hours 12 mins but that included both pubs. . The last time on a motorway and one pub was 11 hours dead. And felt it.

I didn't realise we teenagers aged you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 03:29 AM

I did all 3 in the same year once - Does that count?

bollocks!!

DtG,C,LBandSPS


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 05:42 AM

'Twas in approx. 1981 that I did it too, in late October. We had just about 10 hours of daylight and we finished in the gloaming. We headed for a nosh in a pub in Settle and at the end I couldn't get off the bar stool to put my feet on the ground. Do NOT attempt the Three Peaks in brand-new boots. And that is a messianic edict, issued ex cathedra. Bollocks, we're out of bog paper again...


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 05:55 AM

Bugger. I just noticed you said '82, not '81. And here's me trying to make discussion board misrepresentation a mortal sin...


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Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 06:19 AM

""...Wookey hole sounds like somewhere you could get the Barnsley Scrolls as well.""

And besides, that Chewbacca looks a bit fierce,....and VERY large.

Don T.


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