BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:23 AM

I am waiting on ANY suggestion of what else Israel could do to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties when attacking Hamas military installation.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:23 AM

Apparently Keith, you're unaware that the Palestinians don't HAVE an anti-missle system - just dead kids,thousands of wounded, destroyed Mosques, blown-up hospitals, schools & such like.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:28 AM

Musket posted this on the wrong thread.
To then blame the dead men, women and children caught up in it for not doing as one side tells them rather than the other is beyond the bounds of decency.

As usual you attack what no-one has said because you are incapable of challenging what is actually said.

The Palestinian people of Gaza are helpless victims.
The Israelis tell them where it is dangerous to stay.
Hamas tells them to stay anyway.
What can they do?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:28 AM

GregF

Which proves the point- Hamas has invested only in means to kill civilians, and uses them.

Hamas has chosen to use construction material to make shelters for their (illegal) weapons.




Israel has means to protect civilians, and uses them.

Israel has chosen to use construction material to make shelters for their civilian population.






YOU have chosen to support those who are trying to kill civilians.

Many here have chosen to support those who are trying to protect civilians. YOU are certainly NOT one of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:31 AM

Apparently you're unaware,Schmeg, of the fact that Hamas sites its missiles in Mosques, schools, hospitals and residential areas making them all legitimate targets according to the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:40 AM

Thought, for once in a way [I am no more obliged than anyone else to be entirely consistent] to read Musket's post apostrophising me of 0809am. Dear me, he doesn't like being addressed in the sort of terms he is always aiming at others, does he? Squeal squeal squeal: "you have your own little la la land to begin with, and secondly, it isn't worth it as you can be rather nasty at times. What the fuck my service to the community has to do with anything in this thread is beyond me, unless you are doing a character assassination". Why, oh deary-weary-me, that's me demolished for sure.

And is he really incapable of putting up any post without a "fuck" in it? Just asking out of interest really. Were his Trust reports full of the same? He really is a contemptible little worm, isn't he? What a specimen. And if I want to go on reminding everyone how he boasts of his distinguished career --

--during which I don't suppose he spent his time telling the Trustees in the meetings he chaired what a lot of "thick cunts" they were [he even invented his own abbreviation for Mudcat, "TC", which he expected us all to recognise] --

then I shall do so without the leave of him, entirely confident in my assessment that it is his own MO that has brought such reminders & denunciations on himself.

And if he doesn't like it -- well, oh-deary-weary-me again, he can just his·fave·word off!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:47 AM

...& he could never dream of "doing a character assassination", could he?

Why, perish the thought! The very idea!...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 10:16 AM

As for Hamas having the right to self defense, here is what Hamas has to say:

(Hamas chief Khaled Mashaal )
"The rapprochement efforts even involved Meshaal trying to distance Hamas from his previous outspoken support of the Syrian insurgency, arguing that while people "have the right to rise up for their rights," this "must be done through peaceful means." The Syrian rebel coalition known as the Army of Islam responded with disdain: "He who performs jihad out of his office should not offer advice to those in the trenches.""

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 11:52 AM

The IDF targeted sections of the Al-Wafa rehabilitation hospital in Gaza's Shejaiya neighborhood on Wednesday, explaining that the medical facility was being used as a Hamas command center and utilized repeatedly by Islamist gunmen to launch attacks on Israeli forces. It said it had issued repeated warnings to the hospital authorities, told civilians to vacate the premises, and warned the gunmen to stop abusing the medical facility.

"Hamas terrorists have been intentionally abusing the hospital and other international protected symbols to indiscriminately attack Israel and its civilians," said IDF spokesman Lt. Col. Peter Lerner.

The 17 patients who were in the complex were moved to another location last Thursday, the hospital's chief, Basman Alashi, told Haaretz, after the Israeli Air Force carried out an earlier strike at the site.

In a statement the IDF explained that "the hospital grounds and its immediate surroundings have been repeatedly utilized by Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad as a command center, rocket launching site, and a post enabling terrorists to open fire at soldiers."

The IDF noted that it had repeatedly brought the abuse of the hospital grounds to the attention of international organizations and also directly warned the hospital administration and Palestinian officials of the situation.

The Times of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 03:11 PM

Israel has means to protect civilians, and uses them.

Yup, BSB- That's why there are 700+ Palestinian civilians & school children dead, and thousands wounded.

God forbid Israel DIDN'T have and use the means to protect civilians, eh? Then someone might get hurt.

YOU have chosen to support those who are trying to kill civilians.

Not so, BSB - I don't support the Government of Israel. For that matter, neither do I support Hamas.

Bruce: Get back on your meds.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 03:17 PM

GregF,

If Israel did not have the defense system to protect their civilians, Gaza would have been carpet bombed after the first few missiles from there, and the death toll for civilians would have been in the tens of thousands.

It is obvious that that would suit you just fine.




I am waiting on ANY suggestion of what else Israel could do to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties when attacking Hamas military installation.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 03:44 PM

"Not so, BSB - I don't support the Government of Israel. FOR THAT MATTER, NEITHER DO I SUPPORT HAMAS (caps for emphasis)."

I sure wouldn't believe that base on your hundreds of posts over the years. Your posts gainsay that comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 03:49 PM

The Israeli Defense Forces photograph and then attack Hamas gunmen firing through an apartment building's windows.


http://finance.yahoo.com/video/hamas-gunmen-firing-windows-home-193000803.html



And how many Palestinian civilians are still in that building, whose bodies will be used by Hamas for political purposes?




I am waiting on ANY suggestion of what else Israel could do to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties when attacking Hamas military installation.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 03:51 PM

GregF specializes in lying, even when it serves no real purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 04:58 PM

"I do think the point has to be made, if rockets are being shot at Israel, that Israel does have a right to defend itself. But , the bottom line is the question of proportionality. Madeleine Albright in a recent CNN interview with Wolf Blitzer.

Question: in what conflict was the concept of proportionality followed?

I dont recall it being a major factor in the long history of conflict. It did not seem a big factor in either WW1 or WW2. The allies, NATO nor the USA has not seem to consider it as a big factor. The USA surely didinot follow it in Japan (surely not with the A bombs), in Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Iraq, Afganistan, Croatia, or even in Lybia. Russia has not seemed to care much for it in its conflicts. It does not even seem to have a significant meaning in the history of conflict in Europe, nor even in the Middle East.

Is it something to be considered for some conflicts, but not in others? If so- why so and where so?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 05:25 PM

Israel's Ambassador to the United States Ron Dermer on proprtionality:

"It's important to understand what proportionality is in terms of the rules of war. There's two basic principles that you have to remember. The first is distinction, you make a distinction between combatants and noncombatants. That's the most important principle of the rules of war, that you have to make that distinction. And here Israel always makes that distinction. You have have Hamas that is deliberately targeting our civilians hoping to kill as many as possible. And you have Israel that does not deliberately target a single Palestinian civilian. We don't deliberately target their civilians. For us, when a civilian is killed it's an operational failure. And the more civilians who are killed, the greater the operational failure. And obviously a tragedy even of itself. And for Hamas, they celebrate—the greater the number of civilian casualties, for them, the greater the success of their operation.

    And then you have the issue of proportionality.

    Let's say there's a legitimate target because when a schoolhouse, hospital, mosque is turned into a military command center or a weapons depot, or a place where you fire rockets, it becomes by the rules of war a legitimate target. You cannot turn a hospital into a military command center. You cannot do that according to the rules of law. It's a war crime for Hamas to do that. You cannot turn an UNRWA school into a weapons depot, that's a war crime. You cannot use a Mosque as a missile manufacturing facility. It becomes a legitimate target. Then the question is okay, but can you target it in this specific instance.

    There you get into the question of proportionality. Meaning, just because it's a legitimate target doesn't necessarily give you the right to hit it. Because for that, for you to be able to do that, you have to show that the gain you will get from the military action you take is worth the potential loss of lives that you might even foresee ahead of time. So I don't want to get into theoretical examples but if you had you know 1 rocket that was sitting in a school somewhere and there are 50 kids in a classroom, then you cannot actually target to get to that rocket and kill those kids. That would be disproportionate because the gain that you have by hitting that one rocket would not justify killing 50 kids in the school. By the same token if you had 200 rockets in place and you had one civilian, by the rules of war, you could target that place even if you knew ahead of time that the civilian would be hurt.

    Now there are all sorts of judgment calls that happen in between. Can you target that same target tomorrow or in an hour or in three hours? And Israel is always making these calculations."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 05:54 PM

Proportionality in terms of war casualties is a stupid, meaningless term! The are about 2M folks living in Gaza; about 8M in Israel.
So, if proportionality were observed, Gazans should be permitted to kill 4 Israelis for each Gazan killed; or perhaps a ratio of 7 Israelis for each 2 Gaza casualties, if we don't count the 1.5M Arab Israelis.

The truth is there should be no casualties on either side, but if the Gazans want to continue fighting, then all bets are off. Israel, nor any country, is obliged to let any of its citizens die because because the other side want s to fight. To quote Gen. Geo. Patton, "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 06:45 PM

I sure wouldn't believe that base on your hundreds of posts over the years. Your posts gainsay that comment.

OK John From The Bullshit Coast: PROVE that I have expressed support for Hamas in any post on this forum, ever, or apoligize.

(Not that I expect either from a weasel such as yourself.)

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 06:47 PM

Yup, that quite an envious record for the Govt of Israel: one dead Palestinian child every hour.

Quite the gang of humanitarians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 07:07 PM

"Israeli troops entering Gaza last week have so far uncovered 18 tunnels used by Hamas to send armed terrorists into Israel and built using an estimated 800,000 tons of concrete. What else might that much concrete build? Erecting Dubai's Burj Khalifa, the world's tallest tower, required 110,000 tons of concrete"

"Hamas, then, could've treated itself to seven such monstrosities and still had a few tens of thousands of tons to spare. If it wanted to build kindergartens equipped with bomb shelters, like Israel has built for the besieged citizens of Sderot, for example—after all, noted military strategists like Jon Stewart have spent last week proclaiming that Gaza's citizens had nowhere to hide from Israel's artillery—Hamas could have used its leftovers to whip up about two that were each as big as Giants Stadium. And that's just 18 tunnels. Egypt, on its end, recently claimed to have destroyed an additional 1,370. That's a lot of concrete."

Some Concrete Facts About Hamas

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 08:10 PM

Greg--

We both know,(nay, everybody knows) that you probably have never directly said, "I support Hamas," or "I support Palestine," or "I hate Jews," or "I hate Israel,". But the tenor of your posts on the actions of Israel, and your sarcasm and invective, the name calling you invoke towards other peoples opinions, or on posted outside articles clearly shows that you do support Hamas/Palestineans. I counted perhaps a dozen or more such posts from you from August '13 thru Sept/Oct '13 which reveal that strategy just at this thread alone. I know I'd find way more if I bothered to continue to search until today, here; or if I looked up all your posts at various related threads over the years.

So you may curse me; you may call me names; and you may address me in scatological terms, whatever. But you are what you are, no matter how you try to deny it. While I,may read your future posts, I will not respond to any of them that do used reasoned argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 08:32 PM

clearly shows that you do support Hamas/Palestineans.

So now you're rather stupidly conflating "Hamas" with "Palestineans"?
Jesus Wept.

But aside from that, John, you obviously cannot support your spurious accusation. No surprise there.

You maintain the same infantile and idiotic assertion that anyone who opposes certain policies of the Israeli government is therefore ipso facto:

1. A supporter of Hamas

2. An anti-Semite.

You, sir, are either an idiot or an asshole. Or possibly both.

I will not respond to any of them that do used reasoned argument.

I then look forward to your res[ponses to posts -like your own- that do NOT show reasoned argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 09:53 PM

Keith from Hertferd; "Thank you for those straight answers Jim.
Common ground."

I told you, Keith..he's the only one with straight dialogue and maintaining civility(though we may disagree, in places). He's putting the other babies to shame!...and USEFUL dialogue is what is needed!!

Give him time to think onto the next two questions...BTW, the way you asked them, DOES, include some 'possible bias contentious judgement calls'....but if it doesn't DE-EVOLVE into all the nitpicking, you can come to a base for resolution!

beardedbruce: (To Greg)"If Israel did not have the defense system to protect their civilians, Gaza would have been carpet bombed after the first few missiles from there, and the death toll for civilians would have been in the tens of thousands.
It is obvious that that would suit you just fine.
I am waiting on ANY suggestion of what else Israel could do to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties when attacking Hamas military installation."


I doubt if Greg is capable of thinking constructively, other than throwing out very juvenile slurs and cat-calls(along with Musket). However, if Greg wants to change that(and not being thought of as a light-weight), it's up to him to follow Jim Carroll's lead, and discuss the issue, sans all the back-biting.......I mean, it's up to him if he wants to be taken seriously, or as a Toy Poodle, yapping ignorable crap.

Bruce: "I am waiting on ANY suggestion of what else Israel could do to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties when attacking Hamas military installation."

There is only one solution, that I can think of, right now....stop the launching of missiles into Israel, so Israel doesn't have to fire back, to protect its citizens and country, by firing into the Hamas bases, surrounded, purposely by design, around the Palestinian people, and their domestic infrastructure.
It's simple common sense....any other suggestions to a solution??

...and as I posted....

"Solutions??

I hear echos,
In a maze of words!"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 10:07 PM

Bite me, Goofus.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 01:32 AM

I think that was an expression when I was in junior high. You've come a long way!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 02:54 AM

"Common ground."
Not unless this inhuman toe-rag has leapt the humanity-gap and decided to join the rest of us (or maybe decided to live up to his Christian principles instead ove wearing them like a logo on a tee shirt).
I find arguing with people who constantly defend atrocities by either denial or by ignoring them distasteful, to say the least.
Flechette weapons anybody?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 03:01 AM

Hey Michael!

I fucking never fucking well chaired a fucking meeting of fucking trustees, you ignorant fucker. Fucking Parliament are the fucking trustees of fucking NHS fucking trusts.

Fucking well get your fucking facts right before fucking spouting off fucking fantasy to someone who fucking well doesn't give a flying fuck.

More tea vicar?




Still, for someone who doesn't read my posts, you certainly reply to them. A bit like some of your like minded friends on this and similar threads. They read what they want to read and judge others by their prejudice rather than fact.

Trust me, any criticism of you comes from what you type not what I want others to think you type.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 04:20 AM

The common ground is that Hamas is wrong to fire rockets and it is a war crime.

Do we disagree on that?
If not, my further question was, does anyone deny Israel the right to strike back at those war criminals, or do they lose that right because of the further war crime of siting among civilians?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 04:27 AM

Jim, I did respond to you question about flechette weapons.

I pointed out that most weapons kill by driving bits of metal through bodies.
Nasty but sadly legal and universal.

All such weapons can be put to illegal use.
If that has happened it is disgusting.
Has it?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 05:17 AM

Keith from Hertferd: "All such weapons can be put to illegal use.
If that has happened it is disgusting."

I think the issue lies somewhere what people see as 'legal' or 'morally right' to do...right now nobody has come up with a possible solution, and you've become as deadlocked at the Israelis and Hamas. 'WHO' gives in, 'how' and 'why'...even in HERE.

Keith asks, "The common ground is that Hamas is wrong to fire rockets and it is a war crime.
Do we disagree on that?"

Is this correct?
(I'd like to add a 'footnote'. The above question uses the word 'wrong' and being as that could go back into arguing about justification(s), ad nauseum, perhaps, 'actions that initiated the weapon exchanges'...if that's OK?)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 05:20 AM

Typo correction:

Keith from Hertferd: "All such weapons can be put to illegal use.
If that has happened it is disgusting."

I think the issue lies somewhere what people see as 'legal' or 'morally right' to do...right now nobody has come up with a possible solution, and you've become AS deadlocked AS the Israelis and Hamas. 'WHO' gives in, 'how' and 'why'...even in HERE.

Keith asks, "The common ground is that Hamas is wrong to fire rockets and it is a war crime.
Do we disagree on that?"

Is this correct?
(I'd like to add a 'footnote'. The above question uses the word 'wrong' and being as that could go back into arguing about justification(s), ad nauseum, perhaps, 'actions that initiated the weapon exchanges'...if that's OK?)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 05:50 AM

Keith. In all seriousness, why are you asking people to condemn Hamas?

Are you inferring some here support their methods of fighting fire with fire?

You see, you have allowed yourself entry into the camp that says that if you don't support one set of armed militants (Israeli forces) you must therefore must be in league with other militant forces (Hamas.)

Before this subject came up, you were a bloke with a very dogmatic view that rarely reflected reality and it was a good laugh to watch you dig out "eminent" sources to justify your stance.

Now, you have crossed a line. The others such as Poo Bad and braidedbeardedbruce are irrelevant mouthpieces for hate. It is a pity you have chosen to play in their sandpit.

You have gone so far down in my estimation I wonder whether talking the piss out of you is the correct approach? It just seems too friendly given the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 06:10 AM

Musket,
   Keith asks, "The common ground is that Hamas is wrong to fire rockets and it is a war crime.
Do we disagree on that?"

Is this correct?
(I'd like to add a 'footnote'. The above question uses the word 'wrong' and being as that could go back into arguing about justification(s), ad nauseum, perhaps, 'actions that initiated the weapon exchanges'...if that's OK?)

Is there common ground here??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 06:16 AM

" pointed out that most weapons kill by driving bits of metal through bodies.
Nasty but sadly legal and universal."
These missiles scatter thousands of small darts over a wide area - they are deliberately designed anti-personnel weapons and are illegal for use on non combatant civilians.
I can take it that you accept this monstrous shit as being acceptable for use on civilians - just about wraps it up on your bloodthirsty inhumanity - that'll do nicely thank you.
Three letters today from the Irish Times indicating that, While Israel is winning the war, it will be never accepted as winning the peace:

The crisis in Gaza

Sir, - The one hope, however 'forlorn, of the terrible tragedy being played out in Gaza in these awful days is that the inter¬national powers, especially the USA and the EU, will ensure the removal of the conditions which are the root cause of the terrible situation there. This would simply involve granting the people of both Palestine and Gaza the right to have their own governments and to travel within and out of their territories by land, sea and air.
Of course Israel, like any country, has the right to control the traffic across its own borders, but it has none whatsoever to make Gaza the largest open air prison in the world, to n have hundreds of checkpoints :- across the illegally occupied territories of Palestine and to prevent Gaza and Palestine having their own airports.    Repression in any society inevitably leads to extremism, usually referred to by the repressors as terrorism, as we have seen in our own country and elsewhere in the history of the world. Hamas may indeed be called a terrorist organisation in that its rockets undoubtedly cause terror in Israel, but by any measure of terrorism, its actions are more minor than those of the Israeli government.
There is no competition. The real terrorists in Palestine and Gaza are the Israeli Defence Forces, with Hamas, with its largely ineffective rockets, a far distant second. The responsibility for bringing about a permanent peace in Palestine clearly now belongs to the international political world and our own representatives in the European Parliament must promote the establishment of a complete boycott of all educational, social and business programmes with Israel until its government recognises the rights of the Palestinian people to have the same freedoms as their own people enjoy. Until this is achieved, the battles will continue. –
Yours, etc.
PROF EMERITUS
JOHN KELLY,
University College,
Dublin 4

A chara, - Paddy Crean (Letters, July 23rd) suggests that "If Ireland wants to position itself as a peacemaker, it must first be careful not to be seen as taking sides". What nonsense. Let me list just a few of the issues on which Mr Crean would have us take the safe middle ground: 600 Palestinians, including 121 children, killed in two weeks by Israeli shelling. -According to the UN office for the co-ordina¬tion of humanitarian affairs (OCHA), "there is literally no safe place (in Gaza) for civilians", with 500 homes destroyed by Israeli air strikes and 100,000 Palestinians seeking shelter from the UN Relief and Works Agency.
The UN human rights com¬missioner, Navi Pillay, suggests that the Israeli action "could amount to war crimes"- not to mention the endless land grab and stealing of natural water springs by Israeli settlers on the West Bank or the apartheid wall which, according to the International Court of Justice, is "contrary to international law". The list goes on and on.
As for me, I'm taking sides. Boycott Israel and all things Is¬raeli. - Is mise le meas,
BRENDAN ARCHBOLD,
Philipsburgh Avenue,
Dublin 3

Sir, - Imagine if after the London bombings Britain had bombed the Bogside, shelled Divis Flats and fired a tank shell at Altnagelvin Hospital. Would we call a resulting 500 + deaths mass murder? - Yours etc
MIKE JENNINGS,
Kincora Road,
Clontarf,
Dublin 3

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 06:56 AM

By the way Keith - Israel has been reported as targeting a rehabilitation hospital in its war against civilian - another triumph you can chalk up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 06:58 AM

An interesting article from the New York Times.

The Hamas Gamble 

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 07:13 AM

These missiles scatter thousands of small darts over a wide area - they are deliberately designed anti-personnel weapons and are illegal for use on non combatant civilians.

It is just a new twist on Mr. Shrapnels invention.
All weapons are "illegal for use on non combatant civilians."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 08:28 AM

I think that was an expression when I was in junior high.

Comment was tailored to the intellectual age of the recipient, Goofus.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 09:39 AM

Just to let the idiotic Ian know that I have noticed my name [can't help it] at the beginning or ends of some of his posts; but they haven't been read, so he is wasting his time if he expects me to have any remote idea what they contained. Nothing that would be of any interest to me, I imagine.

☞〠☜

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 10:11 AM

"It is just a new twist on Mr. Shrapnels invention.
The "twist2 being that they hurl thousands of two centimetre darts into aybody within range - n this case, women and children that's all right then.
What were you saying about "bloodthirsty"?
Atrocity supporting shit
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 10:30 AM

"Atrocity supporting shit
Jim Carroll"



Yep- that about sums it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 11:19 AM

Not bothering to back up your lying? - didn't think so for a minute
More facts to ingnore.
Israel is not only using flechette dart spraying missiles on civilians, but, despite having declared it will no longer use white phosphorus a year ago, it is now being used in Gaza.
It is also using 'Dime' missiles' which are claimed to have a biological effect on its victims - Brave New World eh?
Keep it up Brucie - couldn't make a better job of it myself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 11:51 AM

Jimmy boy,

I backed up MY facts and proved you a liar.

YOU have Palestinian blood on YOUR hands, courtesy of your support of Hamas war crimes.

YOU have proven you are an Anti-Semite by the EU definition BY YOUR OWN POSTS.

YOU have repeated lies that support Hamas, a declared terrorist organization.

You must be so proud of yourself - Killing Muslims AND getting to try to blame the Israelis for the shrapnel CAUSED BY HAMAS ROCKETS.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 12:49 PM

It's a good job braidedbeardedbruce is impotent. With such awful twisting of logic and hate filled accusations, he could make a good spokesman for Israeli militants and terrorists. Perhaps if the price were right, he might start supporting Hamas terrorists instead?

Such fools make good mercenaries in the writing sense. Not the military sense as I assume from his bloodthirsty waffle that he might shit himself if he heard a rocket fire within five miles.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 01:01 PM

"I backed up MY facts and proved you a liar. "
Do't think so Brucie - I think we've both managed to make my pouint perfectly - don'y you
Have a good bloodbath
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 01:05 PM

Just announced
Israeli's shells U.N. school being used as a shelter - 15 dead, mainly women and children, dozens injures.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 01:09 PM

Jimmy,

YOU have not presented anything of a factual basis.

YOU have made attacks on those presenting factual items, rather than even attempting to find any facts that contraindicate those presented.

YOU have been proven wrong in most if not all of your posts.

Just because YOU keep lying does not mean that anything you say will be considered valid without SOME attempt at a factual basis for your statements.



Musket, YOU have never even entered the discussion- just made baseless comments about people rather than bringing up any facts you might have to defend your viewpoint.


The Palestinians' civilian blood still remains upon YOUR hands, for your support of Hamas war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 01:18 PM

Palestinian HAMAS officials claim that it was Israeli tank shells-


— Israeli tank shells hit a compound housing a U.N. school in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, killing at least 15 people and wounding dozens who were seeking shelter from fierce clashes on the streets outside, Palestinian officials said, as Israel pressed forward with its 17-day war against the territory's Hamas rulers.

Pools of blood stained the school courtyard in the northern town of Beit Hanoun, amid scattered books and belongings. There was a large scorch mark in the courtyard marking the place where one of the tank shells hit. Dozens of people, including children were wheeled into a nearby hospital as sirens wailed."


This sounds a LOT like an Hamas rocket, and NOTHING like a tank shell of any kind.



"The Israeli military said it was reviewing the incident, saying that rockets launched by Hamas had landed in the Beit Hanoun area during fighting with its forces, and that those rockets may be responsible for the deaths."

Amazing how a tank shell that puts holes in concrete just leaves a black mark in an undamaged courtyard, like those Hamas rocket ANTI_PERSONNEL Warheads do.


But of course we HAVE to believe Hamas, and CANNOT believe Israel NO MATTER WHAT THE EVIDENCE.


What a bunch of shit-for-brains.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 01:38 PM

"He once again "condemned Hamas rocket fire and called on Israel to exercise particular care to avoid any attack on United Nations premises where civilians have taken refuge."

Ban expressed alarm on Wednesday after rockets were found in a vacant U.N. school in Gaza for the second time in a week, warning in a statement that "those responsible are turning schools into potential military targets, and endangering the lives of innocent children."
"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 01:42 PM

"Musket, YOU have never even entered the discussion- just made baseless comments about people rather than bringing up any facts you might have to defend your viewpoint."

.,,.

That is the MO of this particular pathetic little specimen, Bruce. He knows I have got so fed up with him that I just don't read his posts any more -- even if he starts a fake thread with my name in the title just for the purpose of trying to make me -- look at the index. Silly little fool!

~M~