BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 06:35 PM

Yeah, I understand your pain, Bullshot-

Those Hamas folks building illegal settlements, herding Israelis into concentration camps (refuge camps), blockading food and medical supplies from entering Israel, subjecting Israelis to illegal searches and seizures, violating the human rights of Israelis--- ya gotta hate them Hamas folks, eh?

Which brings us back to:

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 07:45 PM

If there was any justice in this world UNRWA and it's parent agency the UN would be indicted for war crimes:

"Three IDF soldiers were killed on Wednesday in Gaza in an explosion at a booby-trapped UNRWA health clinic that housed the opening of a tunnel, the IDF's Gaza Division commander, Brig. Gen. Micky Edelstein, said.

The clinic had apparently been abandoned by its UN personnel. UNRWA did not immediately respond to a request for comment."

The Times of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 07:51 PM

the UN would be indicted for war crimes

Yoy really ARE a a nutcase, aintcha, Boo?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 08:03 PM

As those who pay attention know by now, the entire Strip and much of Southern Israel are riddled with a mammoth network of terror tunnels designed to murder and kidnap Israelis and store weapons while protecting the mega-rich Hamas leadership.

Israeli troops entering Gaza last week have so far uncovered 18 tunnels used by Hamas to send armed terrorists into Israel and built using an estimated 800,000 tons of concrete.

And how did it get there? That concrete was supposedly shipped into Gaza for "humanitarian purposes." Isn't that purportedly the province of the UN? What was there role in it exactly? How did this stunning amount of concrete slip in to be used for evil purposes? Is the American taxpayer innocently being used to finance mass murder? Inquiring minds want to know — the moral ones anyway.

Yes, the United Nations is outside the legal jurisdiction of the U. S. Congress, but a formal investigation should be launched. Some people will have a lot say — and I am sure it will be interesting. The American people can make up their own minds.

Congress Must Investigate the UN Role in Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 08:06 PM

OK, you might be thinking, UNRWA surely didn't know that the cement it was praising was being used for building terror tunnels, right?

But as Israel Behind the News reported last year, UNRWA's administrators union is dominated by - Hamas:

    [T]he "administrators union" in UNRWA fell into the hands of Hamas in the union elections which were held in UNRWA facilities in 1999, 2003, 2006, 2009 and later again in 2012.

    In other words, Hamas controls funds and supplies that are dispatched to UNRWA in Gaza.

So, as I had reported recently, lots of the cement that was supposedly earmarked for UNRWA projects was being diverted to Hamas tunnels - and now we see that in all probability, some UNRWA officials were complicit with this crime.

UNRWA praised the smuggling of cement into Gaza in 2011. What did they know then?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 08:20 PM

I seem to recall that we thought that those blokes who built tunnels to get out of Nazi POW camps were heroes. And that the guards who didn't spot that they were doing it were bleedin' idiots. Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 08:25 PM

Jim re Einstein: "...which makes him an Anti-Semite in your books."
Come on, Jim, you're way smarter than that over broad assertion. His was a specific, occasional criticism which no way devolves to the level of being anti-Semitic under any definition of that word. That claim makes you seem foolish.

The things you say about your family fighting fascism and nazism may be true, and God bless them for doing so, but I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion, unless you think it gives you a pass to espouse your views and not be challenged.

"...ancient history John - get someone to read it to you.
"Knowing this, the Israeli people elected him Prime Minister."
If you read history, Jim, you would know that Begin was THE Prime Minister during the Lebanon War, and shortly afterward resigned following the death of his wife. So one more time--Begin was not at the camps, later to be elected PM; you ARE referring to Ariel Sharon. Right.

There has, further, been virtually no official, direct culpability found against Israel that stands impartial scrutiny. What blame that is assessed is generally indirect.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 03:23 AM

His statement that Israeli Zionism was in danger of creating Fascist State was exactly what people have been using to defend Israeli state terrorism by describing opposition to it as Antisemitism.
Israel's own report on Sabra/Shatila found itself indirectly responsible, as similar Israeli enquiries will find the present atrocities well withing international law, no doubt!
The independent Redmond enquiry found otherwise, but Israel avoided prosecution through political and economic clout and influence.
The matter has never been resolved, but later information has not only established its role, particularly in providing transport, access, weapons and illumination to allow the killing to continue uninterrupted for three days and in giving assistance in the form of equipment to bury the bodies ad build a stadium over the mass graves - none of these facts are disputable.
You are, of course, right about my confusion between Begin and Sharon - my apologies; though both Begin and Sharon played a part in the massacre.
"The Kahan Commission found that Ariel Sharon "bears personal responsibility",[16]
"At first, Sharon refused to resign, and Begin refused to fire him. It was only after the death of Emil Grunzweig after a grenade was tossed into the dispersing crowd of a Peace Now protest march, which also injured ten others, that a compromise was reached: Sharon would resign as Defense Minister, but remain in the Cabinet as a minister without portfolio. Notwithstanding the dissuading conclusions of the Kahan report, Sharon would later become Prime Minister of Israel"
"That claim makes you seem foolish."
'Course it does John
Does the same apply to Noam Chomski, the ex heads of Mossad, the Israeli soldiers organisation, and all the Israelis using similar terms and adding 'ethic cleansing' and Apartheid' state to their criticism of State behaviour?
Mike - so if I have you right - it's OK for Jews to compare the behaviour of the Israelis to that of the Nazis, but it's Antisemitic for non Jews to do the same, no matter what their feelings for and involvement with the Jewish people might be.
Is that part of the definition or just your own particular refinement- just curious?
I assume your criticism of Israel isn't going to move beyond fruit trees and cameras - are we ever going to know whether you share at our disgust over the massacres which are now taking place?
"terror tunnels designed to murder and kidnap Israelis and store weapons"
The tunnels were designed for no such reason, they were built to transport essential good that were forbidden by the blockade; many of them became profitable enterprises for those on both sides of the border.   
From a National Geographic article:
"After Israel introduced the blockade, smuggling became Gaza's alternative. Through the tunnels under Rafah came everything from building materials and food to medicine and clothing, from fuel and computers to livestock and cars. Hamas smuggled in weapons. New tunnels were dug by the day—by the hour, it seemed—and new fortunes minted. Families sold their possessions to buy in. Some 15,000 people worked in and around the tunnels at their peak, and they provided ancillary work for tens of thousands more, from engineers and truck drivers to shopkeepers. Today Gaza's underground economy accounts for two-thirds of consumer goods, and the tunnels are so common that Rafah features them in official brochures.
"We did not choose to use the tunnels," a government engineer told me. "But it was too hard for us to stand still during the siege and expect war and poverty." For many Gazans, the tunnels, lethal though they can be, symbolize better things: their native ingenuity, the memory and dream of mobility, and perhaps most significant for a population defined by dispossession, a sense of control over the land. The irony that control must be won by going beneath the land is not lost on Gazans."
Of course they will be used to smuggle weapons - there is a war happening at the present time - but the closure of the tunnels has been the long-term aim of the Israelis as part of the blockade in order to starve the Palestinians into accepting Israeli expansionist policy.
If the Israelis have a right to defend themselves, then so have the Palestinians, even more so considering the murderous one-sided slaughter happening at the present time.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 03:38 AM

"terror tunnels designed to murder and kidnap Israelis and store weapons"
The tunnels were designed for no such reason, they were built to transport essential good that were forbidden by the blockade; many of them became profitable enterprises for those on both sides of the border.   

That is shite Jim.
It may have been partly true of the tunnels into Egypt, but even they had to be closed because they were used to attack Egypt.
The tunnels into Israel are not for smuggling.
They are just for attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 04:25 AM

These have always been known as smuggler tummels - since the massacre began, Israeli propaganda has turned them into "terror tunnels" just as it has turned resistance to Israeli state terrorism into "terrorism"
You, being a strong supporter of Israeli State terrorism , are well aware of this.
Jim Carroll

SMUGGLING TUNNELS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels

NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 04:27 AM

Again, that was the tunnels into Egypt.
The tunnels into Israel have no function except attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 04:35 AM

BBC.
After the failure of Hamas' rocket forces to inflict significant damage on Israeli towns in November 2012, they decided to build a large offensive-tunnel capability that would enable them to infiltrate assault teams into Israeli villages within a few kilometres of the border or place large bombs underneath these villages.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28430298

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 04:47 AM

Te Israelis are intending to destroy all tunnels, as they always have - as with the killing of civilians, they don't discriminate between combatants and non-combatants.
Following a superb letter in last Monday's Irish Times (I'll put it up later), and another in the Irish Independent
IRISH INDEPENDENT
There seems to be a serious move to boycot Israeli goods - it's time Israel is treated in the same manner as was the South Africa it seems to have become
Jim Carroll


Take Action to Protest the Israeli slaughter in Gaza!
Ten things you can do



All over Ireland there are people who are extremely angry over Israel's invasion of Gaza and the appalling barabrity of its actions there which has killed and injured 1000's of people and made a wasteland of Gaza. Aside from joining the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign (IPSC), here are some practical ways in which you can help support the Palestinian people.

1) Protests: All over Ireland protests have been organised in solidarity with Gaza. Check the IPSC Events Calendar for news about all the latest protests. If there are no protests in your area, you may want to find a few like minded people, form an organising committee and plan something - from a silent vigil to a march to a banner drop. Protests are vitally important in that they pressure our government to act. Equally importantly, they show the people of Gaza that they are not alone, that the world is appalled by the horror visited on them by the Israeli murder machine.

2) Retail Boycott: A powerful weapon in the hands of the individual is the boycott campaign. The IPSC is currently trying to set up 'Apartheid Free Zones' (AFZs) in localities around the country. For more information and to get involved in the AFZ campaign please see here or email consumerboycott [at] ipsc.ie .

Of course, there are other ways individuals and groups can get involved in boycotting Israeli products - print out / photocopy the IPSC Boycott Leaflet and distribute them, demand to see the managers of shops selling Israeli goods and ask that they are removed from the stores' shelves. In Ireland the Israeli products which consumers can most easily identify and boycott are: citrus fruits and vegetables (potatoes and herbs); Keter garden sheds and storage boxes, Stanley tool boxes in Atlantic Homecare, Woodies DIY and other hardware shops; Dead Sea cosmetics - promoted and sold in Debenhams, and other department stores countywide; diamonds – Israel is the world's largest producer of cut and polished gem stones. Demand Israel-free diamonds, crafted in countries which respect human rights.

You can also write a letter to shops. We have a template of a letter to write to store managers, asking them to cease stocking Israeli goods. You can find this at below. Send even one letter or email, and tell your friends about it - it will make a difference.

SAMPLE LETTER TO SHOPS STOCKING ISRAELI GOODS - CLICK HERE FOR A LETTER SPECIFIC TO OUTLETS ALLOWING DEAD SEA SPA PRODUCTS TO BE SOLD ON THEIR PREMISES.

Dear Manager,

I am a regular shopper in your store and I am deeply concerned that you are selling Israeli produce such as …. I would like to ask you to remove these Israeli products, since they come from a country which continues a brutal and illegal military occupation of the occupied Palestinian territories. Much Israeli agricultural produce comes from illegal settlements on Palestinian land, although it is routinely mislabelled as coming from within Israel's borders.

Even before the latest mass killings of the population of Gaza, the Palestinians have suffered long enough. The occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip is now in its 40th year, the longest military occupation in the world. This occupation is in contravention of numerous international laws and conventions. Human rights organisations such as Amnesty International have noted that over 4,000 Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians and including over 1000 children, have been killed in the past 6 years by Israeli forces. Israel has destroyed thousands of Palestinian homes and crucial civilian infrastructure, including power plants, roads, bridges, sewage and telephone networks. Restrictions imposed on the movements of Palestinians and Palestinian goods have made normal life impossible.

B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights group, describes the situation as bearing "clear similarities to the apartheid regime that existed in South Africa". The United Nations Special Rapporteur for Human Rights, John Dugard agrees, stating that the system of control that Israel uses is effectively a system of apartheid.

Last year, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions recognised Israel's apartheid nature, and recognised the role Irish workers and unions played in promoting the boycott of South African goods when it was under apartheid rule. As a result, they voted unanimously to support a full boycott of Israeli goods, joining in the growing international call for a boycott.

This boycott is called for by Palestinian civil society. Boycotting Israeli goods offers a non-violent tactic towards change. It is both a moral and effective means to achieve a just and peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

I sincerely hope that your shop will stop stocking goods from Israel, and look forward to your reply. However, if you choose to support Israeli war crimes, and continue stocking Israeli goods, I'm afraid I will have to take my custom elsewhere.

Yours sincerely

Please inform us of any replies you receive by emailing [e-mail]. Thanks!

3) Cultural, economic, sporting and academic boycott of Israel: Not buying Israeli goods is something immediate we can all do. A more long-term and effective campaign needs to operate on all fronts: sporting, cultural, academic, financial and so on.

You can promote the boycott in your everyday life. Whether you are a trade unionist, a university teacher, a member of a pension fund, a church group or sporting association, you can promote boycott and discussion of boycott in your work and in the groups you are involved in - IPSC are happy to provide speakers if you require them. It is only by operating in all these areas that this boycott campaign will be successful. So it's up to you!

4) Write to TDs, Senators and MEPs: Demand action from your elected representatives, demand that they condemn these Israeli atrocities and that they move to a) institute a diplomatic boycott of Israel until it ends its offensive on Gaza and complies fully with its obligations under International Law. b) Demand that the Irish government uses its influence in the EU to push for the suspension of Israel from the Euro-Med Agreement which grants it favourable trading status with the EU. c) Demand that Ireland cease all economic relations with Israel. Below is a sample letter which you can send, and you can find the emails for all Irish TDs here, Senators here and MEPs here. Or use this useful website - http://www.contact.ie/

SAMPLE LETTER TO ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES:

Dear [name],

I am writing in digust at the Israeli attack on Gaza which has left 1,000s dead or injured, and has left Gaza a wasteland. These appalling actions constitute severe war crimes and I will not stand idly by while they occur in the face of inaction by the Irish government, the European Union and the United Nations. Yes, members of our government have condemned the attacks - but words are no longer enough, action is needed and it is needed now. Israel cannot be allowed to get away with these massacres of a largely defenceless population.

I demand that Irleand use its influence in the UN to ensure the opening of the borders to Gaza to enable emergency humanitarian aid into the area, regardless of the bullying and ruthless threats by Israel;
I call on Minister for Foreign Affairs, Micheál Martin, to insist in the EU Council of Ministers on the suspension of the EU trade agreement with Israel under Clause 2 of the Association Agreement;
I call on the Irish government to diplomatically boycott Israel until it ceases its attacks on Gaza and fully complies with its obligations under International Law;
I call on the Irish government to support the call from Palestinian civil society for a complete economic, cultural, academic and sporting boycott of the Israeli state until it ceases its attacks on Gaza and fully complies with its obligations under International Law;
I call on all Irish parliamentarians to stand by their illegally imprisoned colleagues in Palestine;
I call for a restoration of the ceasefire under terms which the international community must enforce, including the ending of the economic and political blockade of Gaza, and indeed of the West Bank;
I demand that the Irish government use its influence on the world stage to seek a solution in Palestine which respects the rights of Israelis and Palestinians, and secures for Palestinians their national and democratic rights. Only then will there be a settlement.
Yours sincerely,

5) Tie up the phone lines: The Israeli Embassy phone number is 01 6680 303. The US Embassy phone number is 01 6688 777. The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs number is 01 4780822. We suggest phoning them and making your concerns known - in particular it would be worth asking the Department for the Irish government to take concrete action at EU and UN level - actions such as international sanctions, and for the explusion of the Israeli Ambassador.

6) Write a letter to the newspapers: The Israeli embassy is urging Zionists in Ireland and abroad to flood the Irish papers with support for their mass murder. A letter, even a short one (especially a short one, in fact!) to the papers is an important way to spread the truth.

Some points you can raise:

a. Nothing, but nothing justifies the mass murder of hundreds of innocent civilians and the terrorisation of over a million and a half people in Gaza.

b. Israel is the aggressor in this conflict. It is illegally occupying Palestinian territory and during the truce from July to December imposed a savage siege on the civilian population of Gaza that starved them of food, drinking water, and basic supplies such as paper, electricity, medicines.

c. More immediately Israel is the aggressor. During the truce observed by Hamas, Israel killed 25 people in Gaza, including 8 children. As even CNN acknowledges now, it was Israeli killings in November that finally led Hamas to resume firing homemade rockets.

d. The homemade rockets. During September and October a total of two homemade rockets were fired from Gaza (and not by Hamas). Israel continued to violate the truce and starve the people of Gaza

e. The democratically elected Hamas government has repeatedly called for an extension of the ceasefire. They have declared their military campaign will stop once Israel respects international law and withdraws from the Occupied Territories.

f. Millions of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have lived in terror and under occupation for the last 40 years. It is these Palestinians we should be supporting.

g. While there are thousands marching in Israel calling for 'death to the Arabs', there are also tens of thousands of Israelis marching against the war. It is these Israelis we should be supporting.

The national papers you can write to are as follows:

Irish Times: [e-mail]

Irish Independent: [e-mail]

Irish Examiner: [e-mail]

Evening Herald: [e-mail]

Metro: [e-mail]

Daily Mail: [e-mail]

Sunday Tribune: [e-mail]

Sunday Independent: [e-mail]

Mail on Sunday: [e-mail]

If you send a letter to the papers, could you cc us at [e-mail]. Thanks!

7) Sign an online petition calling for ceasefire:

The IPSC petition is here: http://www.petitiononline.com/ipsc2009/

There are many such petitions. One of the biggest, with hundreds of thousands of signatures, is here: http://www.avaaz.org/en/gaza_time_for_peace/96.php?CLICK_TF_TRACK

Also

http://www.petitiononline.com/SaveGaza/

There is also this trilingual petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/freegaza/petition.html

In addition there are many facebook and myspace petitions circulating. The more signatures they get the more effective they will be. Take two minutes out and add your signature.

8) Get involved in the IPSC: Once this round of terror subsides, Palestinians will still live under military occupation, in exile, and encased in an apartheid regime within Israel itself. They need your ongoing support. IPSC runs a range of activities throughout the year you can get involved in.

You can subscribe to our mailing list to receive a weekly newsletter. You'll get up-to-date news articles and analysis of the current situation in Palestine, and details of IPSC and other Paletsinian related events you can take part in.

9) Support the work of the IPSC: IPSC in a small volunteer organisation that runs on very limited resources. In order for us to do our work effectively we need your financial help. You can support us financially by taking out a Standing Order, or donating online. The Standing orders help us greatly to keep our campaign work going, grow as an organisation and plan effectively for the future.

10) Above all, get informed: Israel spends tens of millions on propaganda in the media, but there are still many good sources of information about Israel/Palestine. For instance:

Alternative Information Center
Joint Palestinian-Israeli organization

Electronic Intifada
News, views, reports and statements relating to Palestine

International Middle East Media Center
Palestinian based news site (in English)

Stop the Wall
International anti-apartheid wall campaign

You'll find more sites on our 'Links' page at http://www.ipsc.ie/links.php

----------------------

Some of these actions will take 5 minutes, some will take a lifetime. We urge you to do something, no matter how small. Now more than ever, the people of Palestine need your support.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:03 AM

Te Israelis are intending to destroy all tunnels, as they always have

Egypt has already destroyed the smuggling tunnels Jim.
Israel needs to destroy the attack tunnels built (when Israel removed restrictions on building materials) to attack their civilians.

- as with the killing of civilians, they don't discriminate between combatants and non-combatants.

Yes they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:40 AM

"Egypt has already destroyed the smuggling tunnels Jim."
Some of them Keith
You really aren't worth arguing with, you are neither intelligent nor knowledgeable enough and your arguments can be summed up in four words "Isreal never dun nuffin'" plain and simple.
Go and atrocity deny elsewhere, your cover's long blown here.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:43 AM

"Now more than ever, the people of Palestine need your support."

No Christmas - Now more than ever before the people of Palestine need a massive injection of commonsense and leaders that will actually look after THEIR interests and well being.

Loved your link on the tunnels Christmas, pity that you didn't read it first.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:12 AM

"No Christmas - Now more than ever before the people of Palestine need a massive injection of commonsense and leaders that will actually look after THEIR interests and well being."
You mean, "come out with your hands up - for you the future is refugee coloured (and you all now what that means to Israelis) - those of you who survive, of course.'
The wannabe soldier's answer to everything
Stick to closing time at The Dog and Duck, leave it to late enough in the night and you just might persuade somebody.
Your blustering bullshit doesn't work with sober people
'Bout turn; quick maaaarch!
Jim Carroll

Irish Times, Monday 28th July
THE CRISIS IN GAZA
Sir, - It is not enough to' ex¬press horror at so many innocent lives having been lost during the latest round of violence in Gaza and Israel. We must in¬stead ask how we can break the cycle that leads to this slaughter.
The people of Gaza live in what is often referred to as "the world's largest open air prison". Almost two million people live in an area 40km long and 10km wide, 80 per cent of whom are classified by the United Nations as refugees. Eight out of every 10 residents of Gaza are reliant on the international community for support.
In the West Bank, the Israeli military is in control of 60 per cent of the land. There are now more than 500,000 Israeli settlers living in over 200 settlements. In order to facilitate these settlements, land is confiscated from Palestinians. Ac¬cording to the UN, in 2013 alone, 1,513 Palestinians, including 731 children, in the West Bank and East Jerusalem were affected by the demolition of homes and other structures.
The occupation of the West Bank has created a discriminatory regime with two populations living separately in the same territory under two different systems of law. While settlers enjoy all the rights of Israeli citizens, Palestinians are subject to military law.
Despite these flagrant breaches of international human rights and humanitarian law, the Israeli government refuses to comprehend Palestinian grievances. Prime minister Netanyahu speaks of "quiet for quiet". We support his desire for peace and security for Israeli citizens, but we also recognise that it is neither realistic nor acceptable to plan a future based on peace for Israelis and the daily reality of blockades, military law and occupation for Palestinians.
We are witnessing the third major Israeli military offensive in Gaza in six years. The current unjust status quo has sadly led to rocket attacks into Israel and cyclical military action on Gaza. Both sides claim to be responding to the other's aggression. Without a structural change to the relationship be¬tween Israel and the Palestinians, it is inevitable that this cycle will continue.
The Irish Government, along with its European partners, must play an active role in breaking this cycle. Until we are prepared to do more than issue empty words of condemnation, the cycle of violence will continue.
We call on the Government to affirm its commitment to a long-term political solution based on a full adherence to international human rights and humanitarian law by both Palestinians and Israelis. In recently issued advice to Irish citizens and businesses, the Government noted: "Israeli settlements are illegal under international law, constitute an obstacle to peace and threaten to make a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict impossible".
Recognising this, we call on the Government to ban all trade with illegal Israeli settlements, thus reducing the economic incentive for Israel to continue to confiscate land from Palestinians in the West Bank.
Working towards a long-term political solution based on peace and justice is the only way to ensure the security of Palestinians and Israelis.
It is a fallacy to think that cyclical military invasions of Gaza will- bring security to Israel. This policy will only lead to more violence and death on both sides.
Yours, etc,
EAMONN MEEHAN, executive director, Trocaire,
ROSAMOND BENNETT, chief executive officer, Christian Aid Ireland,
DR. SEAN HEALY, director, Social Justice Ireland,
DAVID BEGG, general secretary, Irish Council of Trade Unions,
JACK O'CONNOR, general president, SIPTU,
DR MAUREEN O'CONNOR, School of English, University College Cork,
PROF KATHLEEN LYNCH, School of Social Justice, University College Dublin,
PROF LUKE GIBBONS, Department of English, NUIMaynooth,
DR EITHNE O'CONNELL, School of Applied Language and Intercultural Studies, Dublin City University, DR DES McGUINNESS, School of Communications,DCU,
DR ANNE MULHALL, School of English, Drama & Film, University College Dublin,
DR IAIN ATACK, International Peace Studies, Trinity College Dublin,
DR BILL McSWEENEY, International Peace Studies Programme, Trinity College Dublin,
PROF DAVID LANDY, Department of Sociology, Trinity College Dublin,
DIARMUID O'BRIEN, deputy principal. Ballyfermot College of Further Education,
DR PETER COLLINS, Department of History, St Mary's University College Belfast
DR MARTIN J POWER, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick,
DR BILL DORRIS, School of Communications, Dublin City University,
DR EMER Ni-BHRADAIGB • Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences, Dublin City University      
MARIE CRAWLEY, chairperson, Sadaka-The Ireland Palestine Alliance

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:26 AM

Well Christmas the best possible outcome for those "living" in Gaza would be for the Israelis to reoccupy the place, then rebuild it with the aid money that Hamas currently fritters away enlarging their "leaders" bank accounts and buying rockets and other weaponry (None of which ever seems to do the good people of Gaza any good at all).

After a period of stable and peaceful transition the Israelis could once again unilaterally withdraw as they did in 2005, but at least by then the people of Gaza would have had some experience of living in peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:30 AM

Oh by the way Christmas, could you show me a map that defines the borders of the States of Palestine and Israel as agreed to by Hamas, Fatah and the Unity Palestinian Authority?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:45 AM

Some extracts from an article by Melanie Phillips in this week's Spectator ~~ posted simultaneously on the 'Small Hope' & 'Caliphate' threads:

Every time Israel takes military action to prevent further Palestinian attacks, it is falsely presented as the aggressive persecutor of the innocent...
Unless British Jews join this demonisation, they are deemed complicit with Israel's 'war crimes'. As a result, attacks on British Jews always spike during Israel's wars. So much for the supposed distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. [MGM's emphasis]...
Anti-Semitism singles out Jews for treatment applied to no other people: the application of double standards, false claims they are committing crimes of which they are instead the victims, and demonic conspiratorial powers. This is precisely the treatment applied to Israel.
But then the left marches side by side with Islamists, who are committed to the persecution of gays and women, while it boycotts Israel, the only place in the Middle East where Muslims enjoy human rights.

I am aware that some, whom I shall not name but we all know who, will denounce this as the ravings of a well-known, & hence ignorable, right-orientated journo; & [probably not in as many words, but implied nonetheless] a fucking yiddie bitch at that.

But some of the human beings who occasionally visit this forum might find some food for a bit of thought.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:13 AM

Jim, Guardian 17 hours ago.
Since last July Egypt has bolstered Israel's blockade on Gaza by destroying over 1,600 tunnels that smugglers once used to bring crucial goods (and weapons) into the territory. The end of the tunnel trade, which Egypt had tolerated for years, crippled Gaza economically, since the simultaneous closure of Egypt's formal border at Rafah meant Gazans had no other way of importing many supplies.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/30/egypt-siding-israel-cost-gaza-dear

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:28 AM

"for you the future is refugee coloured" - Christmas

But Christmas - please correct me if I am wrong here BUT:

In 1948 the Egyptians invaded, occupied and annexed Gaza (which was part of Palestine) then shut the Palestinians up in refugee camps on what was Palestinian Territory. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005, handing the complete territory over to the "Palestinians". Can you tell me why there are any Palestinian refugee camps in existence on Palestinian territory?

In 1948 the Jordanians invaded, occupied and annexed the West Bank and East Jerusalem (Both parts of Palestine) then shut the Palestinians up in refugee camps on what was Palestinian Territory. In accordance with the Oslo Agreement in 1993 areas of the West bank were placed under direct control and rule of the Palestinian Authority. Can you tell me why there are any Palestinian refugee camps in existence on Palestinian territory in those areas of the West Bank governed by the PA?

In Lebanon, Jordan and in Syria the Palestinians were shut up in refugee camps.

Can you give me the name or location of one single Palestinian Refugee or internment camp set up in Israel by the Israelis? After all 20.7% of Israel's 8,146,300 people are Arabs.

It would appear Christmas that only in Palestinian Territory and in neighbouring Arab lands that Palestinian Refugee Camps exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:34 AM

Don't bother with facts- The three stooges (Musket, Jimmy, and Greggie boy) have NEVER presented any, nor do they acknowledge it even when it is supplied. They have their view, and are not willing to have any thoughts that do not support the continued killing by Hamas of Palestinian civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:43 AM

And Jim: Yes, there is a great distinction to be made between the regrets expressed by Einstein & Chomsky, & me, et al, at the way our dearest early hopes & aspirations have been betrayed*, which represent a disappointment leading to a profound kind of grief which you cannot even begin to understand or empathise with; and the lefty-agenda-driven, supposed-underdog-loving, ambivalently motivated [to put it at its least unfavourable] attacks on a small demographic striving for very survival in the face of hostile hordes, supported worldwide by well-meaning but misguided useful idiots like you. And if you haven't the intelligence to recognise and appreciate this distinction, then the worse for you

≈M≈

*& if I choose to express this symbolically by denunciation of the destruction of ordinary respectable people's means of living in the form of the olive groves which were all that supported them and brought them an honest maintenance, it ill becomes you to utter smartarse sneers at this as 'lipservice' & concentaration on trifles -- indeed, it's contemptible of you. I say again, in Shaw's useful formulation: You think it isn't, but it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:00 AM

The mob howled for vengeance, the missiles raining down on the synagogue walls as the worshippers huddled inside. It was a scene from Europe in the 1930s – except this was eastern Paris on the evening of July 13th, 2014.

Thousands had gathered to demonstrate against the Israeli bombardment of Gaza. But the protest soon turned violent – and against Jews in general. One of those trapped told Israeli television that the streets outside were "like an intifada", the Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation.

Two weeks later, 400 protesters attacked a synagogue and Jewish-owned businesses in Sarcelles, in the north of Paris, shouting "Death to the Jews". Posters had even advertised the raid in advance, like the pogroms of Tsarist Russia.

And this....sound familiar?

Social media provides an easy platform for the spread of hate, which has been given impetus by the alliance between Islamists and the left, says Ben Cohen, author of Some of My Best Friends: A Journey Through Twenty-First Century Anti-Semitism. "Saying that Jews are the only nation who don't have the right to self-determination, smearing Israel as a modern incarnation of Nazi Germany or apartheid South Africa, asserting that the 'Israel Lobby' manipulates American foreign policy from the shadows is unmistakably anti-Semitism."

Newsweek: Exodus: Why Europe's Jews Are Fleeing Once Again

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:00 AM

Still saying I support Hamas, lying scum?

By the way, what was the criminal conviction that prevented you from being able to work in Saudi Arabia? You never did get around to telling us.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:04 AM

A short history of Gaza (Thank you Waseem Altaf)

From 2500 BC to about 1100 BC Canaanites lived in Gaza. The term "Canaanite" itself does not refer to any particular racial or ethnic attribute. They were idolaters and worshipped a family of gods while their primary god was El.
In about 1190 BC the Philistines of Aegean origin captured Gaza. They were defeated by Israelite King David in the 10th century BC.
It later came under Assyrian rule followed by Persian.
The Roman Empire invaded the region in 63 BC which continued till the end of the Empire when the Byzantine Empire captured it.
Prior to the advent of Islam during the 4th and 5th century Gaza was mainly inhabited by Christians as part of the Byzantine Empire.
The Prophet Mohammad visited Gaza more than once before prophet-hood. It is said that the prophet's great grandfather Hashim ibn Abd Manaf lived in Gaza as a merchant.

In 634 AD, during the reign of Caliph Abu Bakr, Gaza was besieged by Muslim army commanded by Amr Bin Al-aas and Khalid Bin Walid, until it fell to the Muslims. After the Muslim occupation, churches were converted into mosques while Christians and Jews were given the option to convert, pay Jizya or face dire consequences. Hence, many fled and a very insignificant Christian and Jewish population remained till the Ummayad and Abbasid periods. (661-1258 AD)
It was in Gaza that Imam Shafi wrote his "fiqah". And in 796 AD the city was destroyed during infighting among Muslim Arab tribes.
In 909 AD it became part of the Fatimid Caliphate ( A Shia caliphate descended from the daughter of the Prophet named Fatima.

In 1100 AD Gaza was invaded by Byzantine Christians as part of the Crusades- military campaigns launched to regain Christian territories lost to the Muslims.
In 1187 it was re-conquered by Salah-ud-Din Ayyubi who founded the Ayyubid dynasty and remained a strong advocate of jehad. However, the bulk of Saladin's activities from 1174 until 1187 AD involved fighting other Muslims and eventually bringing Aleppo, Damascus, Mosul, and other cities under his control.
The Ayyubid period of rule virtually ended in 1260 after the Mongols under Hulagu Khan completely destroyed Gaza. It was followed by Mamluk rule.
In 1516 Gaza was Invaded by the Turks and incorporated into the Ottoman Empire. In 1832 the Egyptians captured it. In 1842 it was recaptured by the Turks defeating the Egyptians.

After Turks were defeated during World War I, Gaza became a British mandate.
In 1948,when the state of Israel was one day old it was invaded by Arab armies of all neighboring countries. They were all defeated and Gaza was again captured by Egypt.
In the 6-day Arab-Israel war of 1967 Israel recaptured it and Gaza remained under Israeli occupation until Oslo Accords were implemented in May 1994 and Israel handed over power to the Palestinian Authority. (To be continued)
Waseem Altaf

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:05 AM

"Every time Israel takes military action to prevent further Palestinian attacks, it is falsely presented as the aggressive persecutor of the innocent..."
Further to what Mike?
Count the dead civilians and compare them with Israeli civilian dead
Claiming this genocide is a farce in the light of civilian casualties, destroyed hospitals schools homes.
" a fucking yiddie bitch at that"
Now that really is beneath even your neutrality on Israel's genocide - and you whine about being insulted.
"But some of the human beings who occasionally visit this forum might find some food for a bit of thought."
I doubt if you would recognise one if you met one - out of your comfort zone..
What's your point Terrytoon?
"Gaza would be for the Israelis to reoccupy the place"
sums it ll up really - surrender and become part of Israel's apartheid state - isn't that a contradiction in terms.
There are 5.000.000 plus Palestinian refugees in the world today as a direct result of Israel's drive for territory.
"continued killing by Hamas of Palestinian civilians."
Disguised as Israeli troops, no doubt.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:08 AM

Israeli terrorists have now displaced a quarter of all Gaza residents and made the whole area unliveable, murdering over a thousand civilians along the way.

Meanwhile, the world looks on. Anybody objecting on humanitarian grounds is called a terrorist supporter by lowlife scum.

Mudcat carries on giving it the oxygen of publicity.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:13 AM

Jim misses my entire point as usual; but that's nothing new. Why, he has even apologised to me before now for getting hold of wrong end of stick, saying he must learn to read more carefully before jumping in. He should just stick with that thought, & not attribute to me statements which I have clearly stated to be, not my own view, but the sort of disguised sentiments I would expect to find in the posts of the likes of him.

But he won't geddit, so why do I bother?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:16 AM

Sorry, Musket.

I was not allowed to work on the Saudi contract BECAUSE THE CONTRACT SPECIFIED ONLY WHITE PROTESTANT MALES between 30 and 50 were permitted.That was in 1978.


You keep repeating Hamas propaganda- YOU ARE SUPPORTING the killing of Palestinian civilians by your posts.

Attack me all you want- it takes NONE of the blood off YOUR hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:19 AM

"Israeli terrorists (LIE) have now displaced a quarter of all Gaza residents and made the whole area unlivable (LIE), murdering over a thousand civilians (LIE) along the way."



You really need to get a permit as an Hamas agent to keep posting such statements.

Care to provide ANY supporting facts, even from Hamas Propaganda channels?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,hw
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:25 AM

Bolivia calls Israel a terrorist state, cancelling the no-visa deal.
Mr. Morales, you have big cajones

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 09:34 AM

I met today with a Spanish journalist who just came back from Gaza. We talked about the situation there. He was very friendly. I asked him how comes we never see on television channels reporting from Gaza any Hamas people, no gunmen, no rocket launcher, no policemen.. We only see civilians on these reports, mostly women and children.
He answered me frankly: "It's very simple, we did see Hamas people there launching rockets, they were close to our hotel, but if ever we dared pointing our camera on them they would simply shoot at us and kill us."

Wooh, impressive. Then I asked him "would you mind saying that on camera? I can film you explaining this..."

For some reason I cannot really understand he refused and almost ran away. I guess my camera is as dangerous as Hamas threats...

So just for you to know, the truth will never appear on the images you see on television.

Spanish journalist - off the record - says Hamas would kill Gaza reporters if they filmed rocket fire

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 09:45 AM

For some reason I cannot really understand he refused and almost ran away. I guess my camera is as dangerous as Hamas threats...
IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING
"Care to provide ANY supporting facts, even from Hamas Propaganda channels?"
LYING HAARETZ
"But he won't geddit, so why do I bother?"
Why indeed?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 09:50 AM

Headline statement frm Haaretz
"3 hours ago - Cautious estimates put the number of displaced persons as of Tuesday night at about 440,000 — roughly one-quarter of Gaza's population.
It's now Thursday, in case you hadn't noticed
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:09 AM

ABERDEEN
SCOTLAND
Intended support from Preston and Tower Hamlets has been quashed by Pro-Israeli opposition
The Galway town of Kinvara has announced a boycott of Israeli goods (first in Ireland and Irish musiciians, including Sharon Shannon are to hold s concert in support of the Palestinian people
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:20 AM

"Daddy, he hit me first!"

"Well, he was on my side of the seat!"

"But I needed to see out that window!~"


.... and so it goes....

Daddy can at least say, "If you two don't behave, you will stay home next time!"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:39 AM

"Ottawa (AFP) - Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Wednesday blamed Hamas for the heavy loss of civilian life caused by Israel's deadly strikes on the Gaza Strip.

At least 110 people were killed on Wednesday alone in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas in the world, as the Palestinian death toll from 23 days of unrelenting Israeli attacks soared to 1,360.

Israel says 56 of its soldiers have been killed.

"Obviously, no one likes to see the suffering and loss of life that has occurred," Harper said in televised remarks.

"That said, we hold the terrorist organization Hamas responsible for this. They have initiated and continue this conflict, and continue to seek the destruction of the state of Israel."

Canada's conservative government has long supported the Jewish state and stressed its recognition of Israel's right to defend itself."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:57 AM

A senior Israel Air Force officer articulated the challenge from above. Pilots take to the sky with the instruction "to avoid to the greatest extent possible harming civilians," said Brig. Gen. Yaron Rosen, the IAF Air Support and Helicopter Air Division Commander.

And yet, during the course of the current operation, he said, he saw, for example, "a fan" of 15 rockets scream skyward from Beit Hanoun, in northern Gaza. Immediately, he could see, from his command position, where they were headed: Ashdod, Kiryat Gat, Tel Aviv. As he zoomed in on the point of fire he saw that the rockets were launched from an underground launcher "on the fence" of a boys and girls school.

Returning fire, destroying the rocket launchers, he said, would probably damage the school. Perhaps there were children inside. "What do I do? What do I do now?" he asked.

The air force, he said, had held its fire and spared the lives "of hundreds of Hamas operatives" and assets in order to avoid hurting innocent people.

"When are civilians killed?" he asked. "When there's no time. When there is fire directed at the citizens of Israel."

"A state," he added, "has to tend to its own citizens."

Rosen seemed genuinely awestruck by the extent of the military infrastructure embedded in civilian and humanitarian complexes in Gaza. He used the words "unfathomable" and "insane" on several occasions. He described Al Wafa Hospital, which Israel bombed after it had been finally emptied, as the central command post from which Hamas directed the bloody battle in Shejaiya. "It was a hospital held hostage by Hamas," he said.

How Gaza perverts the army's rules of engagement

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:03 AM

"That said, we hold the terrorist organization Hamas responsible for this"
Disguised in Israeli uniforms no doubt.
"stressed its recognition of Israel's right to defend itself.""
Did he say anything about Palestinian right to defend itself against Israeli genocidal attacks - No?
Politicians eh - you love'em or you hate 'em?
"1,360."
Gaza officials say at least 1,394 Palestinians, most of them civilians, have been killed in the battered territory and nearly 7,000 wounded. Fifty-six Israeli soldiers have been killed in Gaza clashes and more than 400 wounded. Three civilians have been killed by Palestinian shelling in Israel.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:15 AM

Hamas hiding under the haricot beans, no doubt

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28571785
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:16 AM

Jimmy,

YOU need to present some FACTS when you make accusations…


"Genocide: A coordinated and systematic effort to completely destroy a people or ethnic group. Whatever you think of Israeli actions in Gaza, they do not constitute genocide. And if you still maintain that they do, you must really be upset by the 180,000 Syrians killed by the Assad regime. And if not, you might ask yourself why only the Israeli government has earned your scorn for its "genocide." "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:24 AM

A soldier from the Golani Brigade, who fought in the battle for Shejaiya, said it is already being talked about like the heroic fight for Mount Hermon in 1973. He said he had fought an enemy, taken fire from all over, even lost close friends and his direct commander, yet "we didn't see one person."

After a week in Gaza, he said, he still had not seen the face of the enemy.

Instead the battle swirls around them. Militants emerge from tunnels and open fire from the rear; donkeys trot toward the troops carrying a wagon full of explosives; suicide bombers make desperate sprints out of alleys; and an old man, apparently asking for water, tries to toss five grenades at a squad of troops, the commander of the Gaza Division, Brig. Gen. Michael Edelstein, said Wednesday.

He described a street patrolled by soldiers earlier this week, in a small town called Khirbet Khaza'iya, in which 19 of the 28 houses on the central street were booby-trapped. Many have tripwires in the gardens and on the doors, many with double activation devices, meaning they can be detonated from afar with, say, a cellphone. Thousands of homes, he said, have been detonated by militants across the Gaza Strip.

Paul Martin, a reporter for the Globe and Mail, described seeing Hamas gunmen retreating from Shejaiya in women's clothing, with one of them swaddling his rifle in a blanket like a baby.

"It's terrifying," said a combat soldier, who fought in Operation Cast Lead. "The [brigade] intelligence officers scare the crap out of you."

Ibid

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:39 AM

Arab Leaders, Viewing Hamas as Worse Than Israel, Stay Silent

Battling Palestinian militants in Gaza two years ago, Israel found itself pressed from all sides by unfriendly Arab neighbors to end the fighting. Not this time.

Led by Egypt, a coalition of Arab states has effectively lined up with Israel in its fight against Hamas.

NY Times

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:50 AM

Paul Martin, a reporter for the Globe and Mail, described seeing Hamas gunmen retreating from Shejaiya in women's clothing, with one of them swaddling his rifle in a blanket like a baby.


And Hamas announces each one as a civilian if they are shot…


Arts. 43-44
Protocol I seeks to clarify the military status of members of guerrilla forces in the following manner: It includes provisions granting combatant and prisoner of war status to members
of dissident forces when under the command of a central authority. Such combatants cannot conceal their allegiance; they must be recognizable as combatants while preparing for or during an attack.

Art. 85
It is a war crime to use one of the protective emblems recognized by the Geneva Conventions to deceive the opposing forces or to use other forms of treachery.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:50 AM

Israeli apologist Mark Regev and like-minded souls are wringing their hands in despair and pleading that all they want is for Palestinians to break from Hamas and get behind more moderate leaders. At the same time, observers on all sides are noting that Hamas - close to a spent force after the deal with Fatah - has seen its support soar as a result of the Israeli offensive.

Yet still Netanyahu blunders on, creating a new family of enemies for every child that dies, pandering to populist opinion as voiced for instance by brainless Zionists, wrapped in their national flag, jubilantly chanting that there are no more schools in Gaza because there are no more Gaza children. His arrogance is founded in a belief that anyone who questions him can be labelled anti-semitic. As far as the UK is concerned, there is some basis for that belief. And in the US of course Israel is beyond criticism, thanks to the disproportionate leverage exercised by a monied Zionist lobby. But elsewhere around the world Israel is increasingly loathed, and indeed old-style anti-semitism is in evidence again - a direct consequence of Israel's disregard for innocent lives.

This present conflict has the potential ultimately to threaten the principles that underpin the UN. That would delight many in the US who have never liked having to conform to any sort of world consensus. But with the US already on course to lose top billing in the world order, such minded folk should be careful what they wish for.

"The Jews were the first victims of Hitler; the Palestinians were the second" - Peter Ustinov

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:01 PM

Indict UNRWA for war crimes for their complicity in aiding terrorism!

New details have emerged about the booby-trapped clinic explosion that killed three IDF Maglan unit soldiers in Gaza earlier this week - Sergeant First Class Matan Gottlieb, 21, from Rishon LeZion; Sergeant First Class Omar Chai, 21, from Savion; and Sergeant First Class Guy Algranati, 20, of Tel Aviv, hy"d.

Over eighty kilograms of explosives were built into the UN-funded hospital's walls themselves, it was cleared for publication Thursday - revealing that the clinic itself was built to mask, and perform, potential acts of terror on the IDF.

Moreover, the clinic was built over tens of terror tunnels, according to the report.

The UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency) has yet to respond to the revelations, and has still not responded to the deaths of the Israeli soldiers Wednesday.

Booby-Trapped Explosives Built into Walls of UNRWA Clinic

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:05 PM

Indict The UNRWA for war crimes....

How many weeks since poobad last took his medication?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:10 PM

Musket,

Do you even bother to read posts before you attack people?

The POSTED FACTS, IF PROVEN TRUE, are evidence of a WAR CRIME.

ALL here know YOU support war crimes, as long as it is Israelis or Palestinian civilians being killed.