BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:19 AM

" My thoughts are with the children in such cases."
There must be millions of families in the same position, if the claims Cunnings made is are accurate anyway) - truth is not a noted feature of these people - it's quite possible he just got bored
Downing Street has contradicted the account of the on-the-spot police as to what happened and it is difficult to find how the two stories differ
A government spokesman first said he broke no rules - he did
Then they said it is understandable he broke the rules - anyone in his position would
They said he didn't stay in the same premises as the family - immaterial and denied by local people anyway
They defended this clown before they got their story straight and once again have exposed themselves as they instinctive liars they are noted for being
It's not the breach of rules that is the main feature here - it's the example it sets to a people being asked to "stay at home and stay safe - that means everybody but us; we'll please ourselves"
Johnson adopted this superior stance from the beginning - gathering shoulder-to-shoulder on camera with people known to be at risk, refusing to be tested then being effected by the virus
That he's not learned his lesson can be shown by the contradictory advice that caused possibly lethal confusion, then, after a heartfelt speech about the danger of making rash decisions, allowing an easing up of the lock-down against the advice of the experts to appease the money-men
Maybe that's Dom Cullings's new culling plan to solve the growing unemployment crisis
My sympathies are with the children too - who the **** deserves to be born into families like that ?

Meanwhile - back at the other asylum
It has now been admitted that there will almost certainly be a sea-border and goods checks around Northern Ireland, despite promises to the contrary
Woulnt'cha you love to be a fly on the wall at the D.U.P. meetings from now on
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:44 AM

I do feel the story has moved on a little from what he did to the intensity of the defences rolled out to defend him. There cannot be many senior ministers officers left who have not leapt to his defence. But so many of these are so weak, you wonder why they think it wise.

"What would you have done?" - Since there are some 257,154 cases now, there are some 257,154 answers to that question, and probably at least one thousand of a couple with a young child where one parent is positive: they can tell him exactly what they did, and I suggest very few of them involved a 500 mile round trip.

"Protecting ones family is what every good parent does." True. But then you ask whether driving 250 miles to see your vulnerable parents the best way of protecting them. And since this government loves war time analogies, evacuating the child and staying in London yourself is a strategy that they could have tried.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 May 20 - 02:12 AM

He's a fool for breaking quarantine, and a considerably bigger fool for getting caught! My thoughts are with the children in such cases.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:17 PM

nah, not really - it's hilarious, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:16 PM

as a citizen who has stayed in and done everything i can to stay safe i must say how very angry and outraged by the actions of this government.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:29 PM

So it would seems that Cummings made several trips around the Co. Durham area whilst he was supposed to be recovering from Covid-19 in London. All those hypocritical ministers who leapt eagerly to his defence must be feeling pretty stupid now....

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 01:04 PM

Look! Labour antisemitism!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 20 - 12:01 PM

Look at dominic run..

The cummings and goings of a scurrying sly shifty rat..

Run rodent, run rodent, run, run, run..

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:43 AM

In Cummings's case there are no consequences - already Government spolesmen have said he is totally innocent of all wrongdoing "What would you do in his place" is the foremost excuse
The government reports of what happened have clashed with those described by the police on the spot
Come on fellers - know your place - Mr 'Cunnings' is above all this
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:19 AM

Has there been any speculation about whether or no there were any consideration of the consequences of such clear disregard of these guidelines being discovered?

If there had not been any such consideration, then DC is thick.
If there had - and these people are supposed to be smart - then this event, and the disclosure of it now, appears very much like one more unspoken, and capable of being plausibly denied, encouragement to use individual "Common Sense" in interpreting these "guidelines".
In other words, the inevitable "second spike" can equally inevitably be blamed in part on the actions of "an irresponsible minority". The identities of that irresponsible few ought to be carefully considered.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 20 - 10:54 AM

Cummings is one of the most powerful well connected men in our nation..

tory apologits are playing the "wouldn't you do the same thing for your family" sympathy card
to get him off the hook..

Bollocks...!!!

As if he didn't have an extensive support system within his social circle and cabel in parliament..

He could have got help [unavailable to the rest of us mere mortals]
within 5 minutes of making a phone call to his right contacts..

No, instead what he did was panic and run away scared from london to his mummy,

.. like a cowardly ship's senior officer fleeing his sinking ship in a lifeboat.
leaving his passengers and crew to drown...

He needs to be keelhauled...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:47 AM

Well yeah. I'd love to see him go. Good comparison!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:34 AM

To my mind there should be no discussion about Cummings. As a "law maker" he has to go.

He knowingly travelled 260 miles while his wife was suffering from the virus and he was showing symptoms of the virus.

The guidelines are that the whole FAMILY had self isolate. Full stop. No if's, no but's no maybes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 20 - 08:02 AM

In my view, if they let Cumming's get away this this, they lose all control of lockdown. People will carry out exactly the level isolation they think is appropriate to them, and any coherent approach goes out the proverbial window.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:33 AM

I'm not so forgiving, Steve. Cummings is a twat and if he has done no wrong with this one, he has done plenty before. They got Al Capone on tax evasion didn't they? Anything that nails Cummings will do for me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:26 AM

And our plan would also risk bringing the virus to Cornwall, so far a low-incidence zone...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 20 - 07:23 AM

I hate Cummings as much as anybody but I'm slightly inclined to hold back on the judging until I know a bit more.

A parallel or two: my son and daughter-in-law live 260 miles from us. Our grandson is the same age as Cummings' son. The missus and I, over a morning brew, discussed what we might do were our son and daughter-in-law to catch the virus. They have family within an hour's drive, but in each household there are small children or vulnerable people. It would probably be down to us to look after the little lad if push came to shove...

We decided that we wouldn't let our son drive to us. The return journey is too much for us to do in a day. We'd probably ask our son to meet us at a services or a junction on the M4 somewhere for a handover (we'd need his child seat in any case), bearing in mind that you can't always cross from one side to the other...He would stay in his car and go straight back home. Big risk for us, but we have no underlying conditions and with luck our son would be sufficiently recovered by the time we came down with it...can't think of anything better...

So what does Dom appear to have done wrong? He drove a very long way unwell. He took two diseased people into a totally different part of the country. He definitely broke the self-isolating rule... His wife wrote what looks like an intentionally misleading piece in The Spectator. Lastly, it's taken two months for this to come out. That smacks of a cover-up both at the Spectator (Tory) and Downing Street (Tory).

What alternatives did they have for their child? It's easy to assume that people like him in high places must have the wherewithal...but we can't be sure... and was he just looking after the interests of a vulnerable person (his son)?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:59 AM

Fairy nuff, Nigel. Is distraction and diversion now second nature? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:32 AM

A song for the occasion from the superb Dillie Keane.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:17 AM

From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:08 PM

So, Nigel, which part of my statement that you quoted was untrue?

I didn't claim that it (or any part of it) was untrue, just that although the WWW may contain "all human knowledge" it also contains a load of crap which would make accessing the "knowledge" an almost impossible task.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 May 20 - 05:11 AM

I've never liked cummings (small c for small willy!) and he must suffer the full force of the law for his actions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 20 - 02:42 AM

When it comes to inconsistency, of course, I fully expect the Government and the political talking heads like Ian Duncan Smith, to be completely inconsistent in the way Dominic Cumming's flouting of the lockdown rules is treated, when compared with ministers and other advisors like Neil Ferguson and Dr Catherine Calderwood.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:46 PM

chronic pedantry may be incurable...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:13 PM

Then let me be more explicit, Nigel. There is an obvious difference between countries who are committed to free movement but, in full accordance with the legislation allowing temporary restrictions during a pandemic (and fully committed to reopening those borders once the emergency is passed) on the one hand, and on the other a country that has decided not to have free movement at all. There is no inconsistency, in either Guardian or the EU on this: just the expectation that the reader/citizen is able to apply a little thought to distinguish temporary and permenant relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 20 - 05:08 PM

So, Nigel, which part of my statement that you quoted was untrue?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 May 20 - 04:57 PM

Hopefully we get some of the more rational brexiteers posting here...

Oxymoron alert...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 20 - 04:52 PM

The internet is overwhelmed with right wing brexiteer zealots
rationalising their perverse biased notions...

That's my "imho", but stated as 'fact'.. [because it most probably is...]...

Hopefully we get some of the more rational brexiteers posting here...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 20 - 04:45 PM

DMcG:
You're right, I don't believe it's an inconsistency.
I think it's perfectly consistent with Guardian standards. Or EU standards for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:47 PM

I don't think you really believe that is a genuine inconsistency, Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:29 PM

The idea that we could have a world wide web containing the sum of human knowledge was a bonkers idea not that long ago!

Yes, but unfortunately the world wide web carries a similar amount of total crap. As such it takes a lot of research to be able to identify what, of the content, can be considered part of "the sum of human knowledge".

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:26 PM

UK and EU disagree about access to crime database
I don't see why anyone should be surprised by this as it was identified as a problem area well before the 2016 vote. We have heard from Brexiteers that it will not be a problem because Interpol existed a long time ago, but in an apprent revelation to the UK, it it is a problem.
An interesting viewpoint from The Guardian.

I note it says: The EU has said it is legally impossible for non-EU countries not respecting free movement of people to access the database and has proposed more basic information sharing.

But then elsewhere, The Guardian (yes, the same Guardian) is telling us that the EU no longer has free movement of people. So presumably no-one has access to the database: Yet despite a timid attempt by the European commission to coordinate the reopening of unrestricted cross-border movement within the union, the Schengen common-travel area remains in limbo, along with the lives of millions of EU citizens. If restrictions are easing, borders are not falling.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:47 PM

by rugs?   Blooming autotext.

by this..

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:39 PM

UK and EU disagree about access to crime database
I don't see why anyone should be surprised by rugs as it was identified as a problem area well before the 2016 vote. We have heard from Brexiteers that it will not be a problem because Interpol existed a long time ago, but in an apprent revelation to the UK, it it is a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 21 May 20 - 12:20 PM

there is plenty of evidence that proves the main purpose of the neo liberal project is to break up and sell-off the public assets of the state to sell to their rich friends. of course this is done under the name of friendly sounding propoganda like 'free trade' or 'freedom and democracy' etc - sold to us but the propoganda department of the 'free' billionaire owned press. the only question is the whether the damage done to state assets around the world can be seen as direct harm to the citizens. in some cases (see usa health care) it clearly is. as we now realise in england - in many ways, particularly in health and social care) the people ARE the state and will suffer and die if not cared for properly. i've just been reading a bit about the incredible financial arrangments of the largest care home providers in england. these massive assets are sold off eg between germany, dubai and the usa at an alarming rate and all wish to cut costs and piss off workers on minimum wage. this since 1989 when thatcher opened up this part of the health system to the market. anyway - yes, they are killing us but doing a pretty good job of the cover up. look at that old guy walking round his garden! marvelous- good old great britain!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 12:10 PM

The idea that we could have a world wide web containing the sum.of human knowledge was a bonkers idea not that long ago!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 May 20 - 11:45 AM

"Without evidence, what I am about to suggest may be dismissed as mere bonkers conspiracy theory.."

Indeed it could.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 May 20 - 11:37 AM

Without evidence, what I am about to suggest may be dismissed as mere bonkers conspiracy theory..

But considering known tory [and even further right wing] form, not entirely implausible...

We've already seriously considered that elements of the tory govt are exploiting the pandemic
as an opportunity to cull vast numbers of the expensive unproductive old and weak in society..

Now let's also add in the possibility that the pandemic and it's prematurely ending lockdown,
might also be weaponised
as a means of ruthlessly deliberately murderously purging essential occupations
of many workers regarded as too left wing...???

"Cull and Purge".. a new snappy inner sanctum tory slogan they don't want the wider population to hear about...

Far fetched...???

.. but only a small step away from the criminal negligence and mass manslaughter this tory govt is already guilty of...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 20 - 10:07 AM

Given that another 60,000 people have been infected in the last week despite the current legislation I find it frankly astonishing that anyone would want to relax the legislation or suggest that people return to places to work where infection is most likely to occur.

That is tantamount to manslaughter at the very least.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 21 May 20 - 08:47 AM

Dyson staff refuse to return to work

I have been having this 'disagreement' elsewhere about confusion in the government's message, and it is interesting that good old Rees-Mogg seems to having the same issue as Dyson.

Part of the government advice is stay at home if you can work from home, and only go to work if you can't work from home.

"If you can't" is suitably ambiguous there. In Rees-Mogg's Parliamentary interpretation, it is essentially, "if your boss permits you." The ability to work remotely, even at a somewhat reduced efficiency, is not enough to say you can work from home. He, and Dyson, and indeed the Government's approach on schools, would like it to be essentially the employer's decision. And oddly enough the employees are not universally happy about that.

I was particularly struck that part of Rees-Mogg's justification that the Houses of Parliament were Covid-Secure was that there would be additional cleaning. But that, of course, essentially transfers the risk of infection from the MPs to the cleaners. What is being done, I wonder, to make sure the site is Covid-Secure for the cleaners? Dare I guess the answer is "Not really thought about it ... they can wear gloves, what more do you want?"

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 08:17 AM

(I thought you may be having abuse withdrawal symptoms) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 05:16 AM

Speak for yourself, Shaw. I got rid of my bell-bottoms years ago and now go out in my best brown baggies and my platform soles :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 20 - 05:07 AM

When you consider that most yanks are to the right of our Tory party, even most Democrats, and that the mods are mostly yanks, it seems a bit odd to accuse them of anti-Tory bias. Know what I mean, Bonzo? Are you thinking this through? And there are still Tories here. I expect most posh Tories would be a bit embarrassed to post on a forum peopled by scruffy, beardy, unwashed, Aran-besweatered nasal singers with beat-up guitars and bell-bottom jeans anyway...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 21 May 20 - 04:48 AM

Local Resilience Forums fear being overwhelmed if there is no Brexit extension given the coronavirus.

"The warning is contained in a 76-page report by the C-19 National Foresight Group, a cross-government team supporting local resilience forums (LRF)."

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 20 - 03:48 AM

Two were closed, Bonzo, not removed. The Jon Doran one was closed because it became not about him. The why has that thread been closed was closed because you cannot publicly discuss moderation policy. I didn't see the third but if it was about UK politics it will have been removed because only one UK politics thread is allowed and that is this one.

Your point about it being a political decision is completely invalid and accusations of moderation bias at best help no one and at worst will get this thread closed too.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 May 20 - 07:07 PM

..and in the blue corner, representing the tory pity party of Great Britain..

Croydon's reigning light-weight accounting champion.. iiiiittt'sss.. Bonzzzzzzzzzz...

Challenging in the red corner, we have all the lefty bullies in mudcat,
ganging up in an unfair fight,
looking mean, and eager to kick poor innocent weak tory arses..

But wait, before the fight even begins,
Bonz has been disqualified
for falsely playing the victim, unjustly smearing his opponents, and tampering with the ref and judges..

Not again... a tory self defeat through blatant dishonest game rigging.. when will they ever learn...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 May 20 - 06:25 PM

Haven't I done well, 3 threads removed in one day. So it seems that if one is abusive towards Tories, that's fine. But if Tories dare to andwer back, then eventually forum membership is terminated/threads are terminated - speaks volumes dontcha think?????

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 May 20 - 05:00 PM

And by ‘her’ In the second and third sentences, I mean, of course, Priti Patel.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 May 20 - 04:58 PM

Yasmin Alibhai Brown, making her opinion of the malevolent Priti Patel perfectly clear in the inews digital edition.

I find her lack of loyalty to people of the same background and origins as herself jaw-dropping. Who needs enemies with friends like her?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 20 May 20 - 03:05 PM

i'm 64 - asthama, blood pressure, frequent infections sort of issues and i work supporting adults with disabilities, usually autism. i've been off work for a coupe of months now, being careful. i doubt very much i'll be going back - i need the money and i miss my friends at work- the service users more than my paid colleagues - they are the best people i have ever worked with. but i'm not going to go back. that's it, my work is done - i would never, ever, do anything that could be misconceived as backing this fucking shower of shit. i've known all my life what the tories are about and see what they do and as a union rep i would support my colleagues in any way i can. but i'm not getting ill and maybe dying for these vermin

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 May 20 - 01:05 PM

But tories have always followed a traditional consistent line of gratitude
towards essential overseas public servants...

"Thanks for helping, now f@ck off back where you came from..."...