BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:23 PM

"It is said 80%   will catch the virus (Whether true or not is irrelevant)"

Archetypal weasel words. Said by who? And if it is true I happen to think it's bloody relevant!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:20 PM

"If it is true that children are unlikely to catch/suffer from/pass on the virus then it is pointless ruining their education for no gain."

Well maybe you think schools are like fairyland, with no crush at the gate at the school run, no teachers, no cleaners, no canteen staff, no classroom assistants, no caretaker or school librarian, no lunchtime supervisors, no school bus drivers...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:08 PM

Has the right wing media war on teachers unions kicked off
in preparation for Boris's plan for infants schools being forced to reopen, before sufficient PPE is made available to schools...????????????
Obvious answer - YES...!!!!!!!!!

As there is not yet a re-start date for schools, it is impossible to know whether PPE will be available when that happens.

From the speech:
In step two – at the earliest by June 1 – after half term – we believe we may be in a position to begin the phased reopening of shops and to get primary pupils back into schools, in stages, beginning with reception, Year 1 and Year 6.

Basic message, don't overreact to what you think you heard.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:07 PM

""damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't"."
Sorry Nige - that is neither true nor is it relevant
The Government will be judges on it's performance in this case - even Trump knows this as he has played both sides against the middle by blaming everybody when things go wrong and taking credit when they go right
Neither business nor polls can be of the slightest interest here - the former have made it plain that they are prepared to 'take a chance with the people's lives' to offset a slump - try applying that to a wartime situation and see if it holds up
The polls can only be meaningful if those questioned have access to all the information - otherwise they are replying from a position of ignorance

The only people to have any real say has to be the medical experts otherwise other factors kick in - my opinion, of course

"Northern   Ireland 458   deaths
The republic 1458 deaths"
six counties to 28 you mean
Even the DUP has admitted they have been left dangling
As you say, "utter poppycock"
LATEST
CONRADICTIONS AND CONFUSION
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:04 PM

Nigel I fully   agree with you. It is said 80%   will catch the virus (Whether true or not is irrelevant) Of those that catch the virus a certain percentage in each country will die.   Only a vaccinne will change this reality and that could be years away. The hospitals have not been swamped, nightingale hospitals have been mothballed.
Logically this means there has been an over reaction and lockdown should be relaxed. It was only meant to protect the vulnerable, not destroy the economy or the foodchain. We have created a monster where people are totally risk averse, a totally ludicrous situation. The statistics determining those most at risk should now be fairly reliable. They are the people that should be shielded, everyone else should get back to work, school and university.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:59 PM

Also..

How many south west seaside and beauty spot locals has boris now condemned to death
by freeing Brummies, Londoners,and other cooped up high risk city dwellers
to drive out for family day trips..

There goes our relatively low death rates...!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:56 PM

Has the right wing media war on teachers unions kicked off
in preparation for boris's plan for infants schools being forced to reopen,
before sufficient PPE is made available to schools...????????????

Obvious answer - YES...!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:52 PM

The crisis that has become Northern Ireland seems to have been forgotten in all this
The number of casualties up there has led to the suggestion that the border might be closed to prevent a spread to the Republic

Makes a   good    headline   but   sadly it is   utter poppycock. Perhaps we should close our border instead.

Northern   Ireland 458   deaths
The republic 1458 deaths

C'mon Iains. Be fair the deaths are roughly equal when the relative populations are taken into account:
Northern Ireland 458 deaths/ population 1.8 million
R.O.I. 1458 deaths/ population 4.8 million
NI Deaths per million 254
R.O.I. Deaths per million 303

No massive difference.
But it doesn't support Jim's point either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:47 PM

I see it's now ok to go to work if you can't work from home but the schools are still out and we are not to use public transport. That should be fine. We can just leave the kids with Nanny and get James to bring the Bentley round...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:37 PM

Wouldn't it be good is, instead o an undignifed scramble to find a way to blame the parties who have no voice in what is happening, some of the Tory supporters migh, just might just think for themselves and give us their opinions instead of those journalists they are quite happy to dis if they dare suggest the Government may be wrong
I've always expected more from Stanron and Nigel - the more 'Thinking mans Tory' types that are needed to add a bit of thought to these debates

What I think ( and as it doesn't inform policy it makes no real difference) is that Boris is "damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't".
The only thing that will make a real difference to the number of deaths (from the virus) in UK is whether/when a vaccine is produced. Without one, any lockdown only does what we've been told. "Flattens the curve to avoid overwhelming the NHS". Without a vaccine (but with lockdown) the total deaths will be about the same, but will take longer to 'achieve' (couldn't think of a better term, sorry). If this assumption is correct, then if lockdown can be eased earlier (without overpowering the NHS) then it should be to reduce the fact that the lockdown is beggaring the economy.
Over 70s should be treated the same as the general population (except for those in care homes) and allowed to choose the extent to which they are prepared to expose themselves to risk of infection.
If it is true that children are unlikely to catch/suffer from/pass on the virus then it is pointless ruining their education for no gain.
According to many polls, the UK citizens are already 'scared' of taking advantage of any reduction in lockdown (except for the idiots who believe it can never affect them, who do as they please anyway). Any gradual relaxation of lockdown is likely to be made even more gradual due to reticence on the part of the public.
Someone, somewhere, has to take the decisions, and to my mind it may as well be Boris. During WWII it was Churchill who made the ultimate decisions, and that probably led to him being voted out, but that is a price which would have to be paid if it also happens to Boris.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 20 - 01:53 PM

The crisis that has become Northern Ireland seems to have been forgotten in all this
The number of casualties up there has led to the suggestion that the border might be closed to prevent a spread to the Republic

Makes a   good    headline   but   sadly it is   utter poppycock. Perhaps we should close our border instead.

Northern   Ireland 458   deaths
The republic 1458 deaths

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 May 20 - 12:57 PM

An excellent article from Bella Caledonia - “Gaslighting The Virus”.

Although it’s almost a month old, it is no less true now than it was then - indeed, events since 17/4/20 lend even greater authority. No doubt the ‘bend down and take it up the arse from the toffs’ Brigade will be along shortly with their propaganda-induced, in-denial nonsense...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:52 AM

You may carve that in stone W.M.
The crisis that has become Northern Ireland seems to have been forgotten in all this
The number of casualties up there has led to the suggestion that the border might be closed to prevent a spread to the Republic

Wouldn't it be good is, instead o an undignifed scramble to find a way to blame the parties who have no voice in what is happening, some of the Tory supporters migh, just might just think for themselves and give us their opinions instead of those journalists they are quite happy to dis if they dare suggest the Government may be wrong
I've always expected more from Stanron and Nigel - the more 'Thinking mans Tory' types that are needed to add a bit of thought to these debates
We already know what Guido thinks (or doesn't) without the blogs
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:36 AM

given the markedly different approach and competence of the english and the scottish government. and given that the westminster crew wilfully patronise or ignore the other 3 nations - should this thread be renamed 'english thread, politics and political ?'

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:23 AM

As I've said, Corbyn, had he been elected, would have been confronted by the same problems of a health and social care sector that has been dreadfully neglected by Tories for ten years.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:20 AM

Impressive, isn't it, how happy some people are to compare how they 'imagine' Corbyn would have handled this, while adamantly refusing to compare our leaders with those other leaders in the world who are actually having the same job of handling it as we are. No, you can't compare other countries. The only valid comparison is our imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:18 AM

Well the report referred to by the poster at 09.34 AM was from the far-right Daily Express, one of the tabloids miffed by being blamed for propagating the mixed messages that have been coming out lately apropos of relaxing the lockdown, so we can take their gloss on the story with a bucket of salt. Said poster even copied and pasted the headline, neglecting to correct the Express's misspelling of "responsibility." I've watched the clip twice and can see no trace of Ashworth having been "stunned" by Marr's rather circuitous questioning.

And this beauty:

"Pretty bad   accusation when it comes from a doyen    of the left like red marr.   I guess the BBC    is finlly realisinng their PARTISAN days are numbered." [sic]

...is definitely one for the archives! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:17 AM

"3 hours from my saying they will blame Jeremy Corbyn to blaming Labour for lockdown chaos. Is this some sort of record? :-)"
What did you expect
Of course Corbyn is to blame for not obeying HMV - even though it has been pretty well condemned as it was uttered as being "diversive and confusing" - reported by the media even
Mar has condemned Labour for first pushing for a lockdown plan then refusing to accept Johnson's half-cocked idea without challenge
Good job Johnson didn't suggest that everybody pretend the virus was a all a hoax - as he might well have done from his past performance
Mar may have been a "leftie" in his youth but he now describes that as the "indisgressions of foolish" youth, and took a job at the 'leftie', no doubt'
Daily Express to prove it
Some people would try to make political capital out of a Holocaust
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 20 - 09:49 AM

3 hours from my saying they will blame Jeremy Corbyn to blaming Labour for lockdown chaos. Is this some sort of record? :-)

Funny how Labour is dead and buried one minute and being a major cause of the governments failure the next! You couldn't make this stuff up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 20 - 09:34 AM

BBC's Marr stuns Ashworth after blaming Labour for lockdown chaos 'Take responsbility!'
LABOUR has come under criticism for refusing to take some responsibility for the confused messaging around the UK lockdown, as BBC host Andrew Marr pointed at their repeated demands for an exit strategy.

Pretty bad   accusation when it comes from a doyen    of the left like red marr.   I guess the BBC    is finlly realisinng their PARTISAN days are numbered.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 08:07 AM

The Government has just announced that the language of the appeal to "stay at home" has been changed to "stay alert"
They have been confused of causing confusion - other parties will continue to urge that people stay at home
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 07:08 AM

Don't forget the Chinese Dave - Trump has already claimed he has proof that they started it deliberately and had threatened revenge
Even if Jonno wants to clear up the economic mess left after Brexit, he has has to learn the White-House tango - The possibly looming economic crisis underlines that
My bet - it's China wot dunnit !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 20 - 06:30 AM

Well, I'm back and it looks like not much has changed.

The government is still getting it wrong and some people are still excusing it or using smoke and mirrors to divert attention. Best we can do is just tell it as it is and let everyone make up their own minds.

Looking forward to finding out how BoJo is going to get the economy working, keep people safe and reduce the death count in care homes. I suppose if he fails it will just be down to negative press, Jeremy Corbyn or antisemitism.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 04:12 AM

"with any political party or political leader"
Sould read; "with the viewss of the British people as a whole" of course
Shouldn't post before seven o'clock
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:49 AM

I have no intention of prolonging this other than to say that, on several occasions some of us have been accused of objecting to Iain's "politics" - while we may not have agreed with them, I don't think anybody can produce any examples of our asking him to be removed because of his views, nor of asking for them to be "deleted" because of the political views expressed
Here we have an example of his appealing for ours to be deleted because he does not agree with them politically
It is not "Anglophobic" to criticise Government policy - on the contrary - it is extremely sinister to represent the actions or the views of politician or Party you may favour, with the British people as a whole with any political party or political leader - neither speaks on behalf of the whole people - ever
I was born at the time when Britain was fighting a war to prevent that argument from engulfing Europe - we all know the results of what the Political leader we were fighting was attempting to achieve - it's been filling our screens all last week
I suggest we move on
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 20 - 05:23 PM

Yeah, right. And butter wouldn't melt in your mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 09 May 20 - 05:05 PM

Sed the feller who claims British police are corrupt, British courts are biased, the British press comes a poor second to a criminal right wing blogger and the British democratic system is shit if it doesn't follow the orders of an unelectes right-wing scumbag

Looks like a personal attack accompaied by a pack of lies!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 20 - 04:00 PM

Jeremy Corbyn, had he been elected, would have faced exactly the same dilemmas as Johnson, dilemmas created by ten long years of Tory neglect of the NHS and the complacent setting aside of a study that predicted with shuddering accuracy that the NHS would not be fit for purpose in a pandemic. Whether he would have done better is academic. I like to think that he would have been far more honest with the people than this current lying bunch of shysters, and that he would have paid far more attention to care homes, rather than let them rot, as with this incompetent lot.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:55 PM

Don’t fall for ‘Whataboutery’ of that kind, Dick.
What Corbyn would, wouldn’t, might, might not, have done is utterly irrelevant.
It’s a ploy by the Right-Wing Extremist to divert attention from the failure of this Conservative government.
It isn’t worth the energy it takes to respond to it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:49 PM

Corbyn running the show wouldbe the stuff of nightmares, quote
well johnson has not done very well at all
i think corbyn would have done better

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 20 - 02:19 PM

"I hope the mods will see fit to delete this anglophobic rubbish"
Sed the feller who claims British police are corrupt, British courts are biased, the British press comes a poor second to a criminal right wing blogger and the British democratic system is shit if it doesn't follow the orders of an unelectes right-wing scumbag
Yeh -well - we'll hav to think anout that carefully won't wee ?
Please stop driving my Irish friends from posting to this multi-racial forum (supposedly)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 09 May 20 - 01:52 PM

Address th position of Britain's murderous role in this criis rather than this racist bullshit
Jim Carroll
I hope the mods will see fit to delete this anglophobic rubbish

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 20 - 01:19 PM

Two more Iains trolling posts in a row.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 20 - 01:07 PM

It's not the wealth but who owns it and how it's spent
Britain ranks among the highest YET

AND

The decline in health care in Britain is one of the factors that has led to it being among the forerunners in virus casualties, way in front of Ireland
It's not how much wealth is available but who controls how it is spent
Ireland still has no industial base - before the EU it's road system was a mess
Ireland is a poor country in terms of how the money can be spent and Britain's role in keeping it divided by sectariianism has helped maintain that position
It is significant that both Brexit and this crisis has moved a UNited Ireland several giant strides nearer
Address th position of Britain's murderous role in this criis rather than this racist bullshit
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 09 May 20 - 12:48 PM

And before anyone thinks of dissing the article as typical Guardian leftie-peftie piffle, so often the kneejerk reaction here,
It is an opinion piece in the gruniard ='nuff said!

Interesting article from a couple of weeks ago:
"Patients transferred into nursing homes from hospitals hit by Covid-19 sparked fatal outbreaks among vulnerable residents, nursing home operators have claimed.

Despite the risks associated with these transfers, the Health Service Executive emptied as many hospital beds as possible in this fashion as it prepared to deal with the pandemic.

Hospital patients were deemed eligible for transfer to care homes even if they were showing symptoms and had been identified as close contacts of others who were Covid-positive.
Did this not happen in the UK? Where was the protest off the healthcare professionals? If government is supposed to involve itself in the minutiae of the health service we can double the frontline staff and cull the backroom pencilpushers. Care to explain why this is not the case? There seems a distinct lack of accountability when the shit hits the fan. Just continual finger pointing at the government.
How lucky we are that Labour lost the election, Corbyn running the show wouldbe the stuff of nightmares.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 09 May 20 - 12:23 PM

By all internationally accepted metrics Ireland   is a rich country.   Constant denial does not gain credibility.

please don't post these views with your distorted figures to me again to me again - I've had enough of such company
When in a hole tis best to stop digging.
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/


https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/richest-countries-in-the-world/
https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/richest-countries-in-the-world/
Why not just accept that by continuing this you are just making a fool of yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 20 - 11:18 AM

Bet you loved my "fiends" typo - too long in the sun today
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 20 - 11:17 AM

2Ireland a poor coutry You're avin a laugh! "
In terms of grown, industry and land usage Ireland is a poor country - the Brits made sure of that when they partitioned Ireland and kept the most arable land and most industrialised counties under British rule leaving "a country where there is not enough water to drown a man, wood enough to hang one, nor earth enough to bury him."
The greatest legacy they left was continual emigration in serch of work - The Celtic Tiger was a sort burst which with the help of EU membership began to turn Ireland;'s fortunes in the right direction - but International bankers, vulture capitalism
Ireland is typical of countries that started out hopefully but fell into bad company

I wll know your view of Ireland - it is typical of what has cuased many Irish fiends from posting to this forum - please don't post these views with your distorted figures to me again to me again - I've had enough of such company
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 09 May 20 - 10:47 AM

THe care home situation in Ireland is admittedly bad, but nowhere near as bad as Ireland, long admitted to and being worked on - Ireland is a poor country thanks to the Bankers and never has been able to afford a national Health Service, but in general, the medacal facilities are second to none
Rubbish
Ireland a poor coutry You're avin a laugh! In terms of GDP Ireland ranks no 18 in the EU. In terms of GDP per capita, Ireland is ranked as one of the wealthiest countries in the OECD and the EU-27, at 4th in the OECD-28 rankings. They could well afford a NHS if the will was there.
Ireland ranks no   6 in the world for per capita GDP.
If you want to know what poor is try visiting a few Subsaharan countries, or somewhere like the Yemen. Until you have seen grinding poverty firsthand you have no idea

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 20 - 10:09 AM

"Mixed messages" doesn't even begin to cut it.

There seems to be some sections of the press and media that want to draw parallels between the virus and the last war, and looking at the PM's response to Keir Starmer saying we want to get 'these measures' (the context explains what they are) under way:


We will want, if we possibly can, to get going with some of these measures on Monday


... which led to all the tabloid 'Happy Monday' stuff.

So here is a wartime slogan to practice:

CARELESS TALK COSTS LIVES

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 20 - 09:40 AM

There's been an increase in road traffic in north Cornwall from next to nothing six weeks ago to near-normal now.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 20 - 09:26 AM

What I was referring to was that the popular press has been implying a significant relaxation of lockdown was imminent and so popular opinion might decide that they could breach the rules early.

For what it is worth, a friend lives in a tower block, overlooking a nearby shore. She is reporting the area is teeming with people.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 20 - 08:30 AM

Whatever the cause, it seems the UK will be high on the list of the hardest hit countries economically, if the depressing BBC news report is anything to go by
The Air industry is talking about mass closures and bankruptcy if the 14 day quarantine for incomers is enforced
Catering businesses interviewed say they can't possibly survive enforced social distancing - it will more than half reduce custom in many places
Percentages aside,
It seems to me, as many countries are now returning to normal or talking about it, the fact that Britain is moving in the opposite direction is an indication that either it was hit harder than elsewhere or someone at the wheel wasn't looking where they were going
If it hadn't been for 'The Pond, Britain and the U.S. would have been in a massive pile-up
All very depressing
Why the **** did it have to be the ***** garden centres that survived :-)
Must get strimming
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 May 20 - 07:22 AM

Well it does look like garden centres will be opening this week.

I agree that talk of 'relaxing' the lockdown has not and does not help the situation at all. The media do not help in this situation as they have been asking when is the lockdown going to be relaxed from very early on. The government should say they are looking at it and will make an announcement when the time is right, rather than drop hints early on. The way they announced the closure of pubs was a good way of doing it.

With regards to relaxing the lockdown, can any of you UK posters tell me if you have seen any masks for sale in local shops? I have not seen any on my shopping trips.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 20 - 07:05 AM

An article in yesterday's Guardian ('Harvesting' is a terrible word – but it's what has happened in Britain's care homes by Richard Coker) gives the lie to the claims, oft repeated here, that the government is not to blame for the dreadful death toll in care homes. The non-joined-up policies since the start of the outbreak, starting with bodged thinking on herd immunity, then no testing or contact tracing in care homes, then PPE diverted away from care homes, has led to a situation now out of control, and in which anything now done will be too little, too late. And before anyone thinks of dissing the article as typical Guardian leftie-peftie piffle, so often the kneejerk reaction here, they'd be well advised to investigate just briefly how well-qualified Professor Coker is to speak on this.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 20 - 05:48 AM

The ineptitude which has led to the leaks about what will happen on Monday apropos of relaxing the lockdown is legendary. "Mixed messages" doesn't even begin to cut it. I'd welcome garden centres reopening. It's an outrageous anomaly that pokey little gardening corners in supermarkets (thinking of the Morrisons and B&M that I know), in which social distancing is well-nigh impossible, can sell what they like while thousands of tons of young plants are rotting away in well-organised and spacious garden centres.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:16 AM

"not only trolling but also in extremely bad taste."
And downright racist
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:15 AM

THe care home situation in Ireland is admittedly bad, but nowhere near as bad as Ireland, long admitted to and being worked on - Ireland is a poor country thanks to the Bankers and never has been able to afford a national Health Service, but in general, the medacal facilities are second to none
Even the richest nations have not been able to cope in this situation
In the US, they check your wallet before they check your pulse - if you can't afford treatment you die - simple as that
Britain - among the wealthiest nation in te world has watched as the National Health Service - set up by Labour and opposed by the Tories - has been run to a hand-to-mouth situation with nursing sytaff being overworked and paid a pittance - nurses falling asleep at work and going home worrying how to feed their families (if they can afford them) doesn't happen here
Add the fact the the British National Health Service would have long ground to a halt if it hadn't been for the Irish and despised immigrant medical staff hadn't been prepared to put up with these appalling conditions, (not to mention the ant- Irish, anti-black racism they had to put up with)
I know from family experience how badly Irish nurses were paid and sometimes treated - two of my aunts suffered the NHS ordeal as dedicated nurses

The despicable comparing of the Irish to Britain's own worst mass murderer is pretty typical of Britain's present racism problem that Brexit has helped to generate - I couldn't be more grateful for the example - the real "Doctor Shipman" is the scumbag non--elected main-man who proposed a prioritising a "survival of the fittest" treatment scheme
Let's move away from this cess pit level eh ?

A reminder of the real situation in the UK
Its report comes amid calls for accurate data on virus-linked deaths.
Only 217 such care home deaths have been officially recorded in England and Wales up to 3 April.
That was the situation in 19th April - the Government only admitted there WAS a problem a couple of days ago, when Johnson was forced to apologise and has yet to begin tackling it
Given the discrepency between the reported between reported and actual figures, I wonder if those understanding percentages better than I do (not hard to find) could work out the present ACTUAL FIGURES OF DEATH HOMES CARES RATHER THAN THE GOVERNMENT HYPED-UP ONES
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:13 AM

It is rumoured that one of the changes on Sunday is that arrivals from overseas will have to self isolate on arrival. They will do this apparently by filling in a form giving the address at which they will be self isolating.

On the 'every little helps' principle, this is a step in the right direction, and should be welcomed as such. But it is a bit tiny, is it not? Are we going to have people visiting these addresses to check up whether people are self isolating? Just because you are there are the moment of such an inspection says little about whether you have been there the rest of the time.   Telephoning them to check will obviously not work unless it is a fixed line. (Although the technology exists to check where a mobile is, it is not as straightforward as the films and TV shows suggest, not least because the information needed is distributed across several private companies.) And I could imagine diplomatic problems arising from it if someone is found to be breaking self isolation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:39 PM

"One of the things Ireland is streets ahead on is the respect shown for the elderly"

This post has been partly deleted because in drawing my attention to an offensive post, it repeated the words used.