BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:32 PM

For me, when someone says

"it is uncertain whether earlier intervention in care homes (or more PPE) would have greatly reduced the casualty numbers"

it is the word 'greatly' that leaps out. What is that supposed to mean? I imagine a conversation saying

"Sir, if we can provide more PPE we can cut the casualties by 5%"
"Only 5%? Not worth doing then."

Why insist on 'greatly reducing'?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:31 PM

Wrong thread Don?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:13 PM

The realistic number of those infected in the US is somewhere between a minimum of 10 million and a maximum of unknown.

The stated infected numbers are arrant nonsense that some believe calms the public.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 20 - 04:40 PM

Arrant nonsense is the white noise of social media Nigel.
It is the chaos of crashing waves or the roars of waterfalls.
Some find it soothing to create their own.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 20 - 04:24 PM

This is not a trolling statement, Nigel, but a simple request: don't say such damn stupid things. Over and out with you, so say what you like.

The facts are really simple. The government had ignored the findings of the 2016 Cygnus exercise, which clearly found that that the NHS would be appallingly unfit for purpose in any future epidemic. The upshot was that when this pandemic struck there was a serious shortage of the protective equipment THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD BEEN AMPLY WARNED ABOUT AND WHICH THEY HAD DONE NOTHING IN ALMOST FOUR YEARS TO RECTIFY. The Tories, along with their LibDem lackeys for part of the time, have been in charge for TEN YEARS. So yes, I'm blaming the Tories. Not the care homes, who have struggled without the kit that has been diverted to hospitals. That you can blame "the professionals" in care homes is shameful. My mum is in a care home near me. They have struggled like mad, successfully, to keep Coronavirus out. I haven't seen my mum for two months. Large numbers of their staff have been forced to self-isolate and lots of them are working extra shifts in a situation in which they live in fear, both of taking the bug back to their families or of importing it into the home. The two managers are the sweetest people in the world and have been tearing their hair out to keep the place afloat. Most of the rest of the staff are on the minimum wage. Several are women who have been unable to go back to their own countries because of the lockdown. One lovely girl from Romania should have been home six weeks ago to get married. She's still here, doing FaceTime with me and my mum, and I've never caught her without a smile on her face.

"Infection in care homes has been a well-recognised problem for years. It is the professionals should have been on the ball, why not place blame where blame is due."

Jesus Christ. The things you haven't a bloody CLUE about...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 20 - 03:55 PM

I merely point out the facts. Others like to revel in the blame game.
Care homes are filled with people in need of care. This is a no brainer.
That they are vulnerable is a given.
From the nursing times:(14 August, 2017)
"Care home residents share air, space, food and equipment, so they also share organisms that can easily cause infection outbreaks, such as viruses and bacteria. They are also more prone and vulnerable to infections, which can lead to death."
The most common types of disease outbreaks in care homes are outbreaks of respiratory infections (often caused by influenza viruses), and gastrointestinal infections (often caused by noroviruses) (Utsumi et al, 2010; Strausbaugh et al, 2003). Some organisms can cause more than one type of infection; for example, Streptococcus pyogenes and multi-drug-resistant organisms (MDROs) such as meticillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) can cause skin, urinary tract, and bloodstream infections (Steer et al, 2012; Utsumi et al, 2012).
"
In a literature review of 206 infection outbreaks in care facilities for older people, the respiratory tract was involved in 45% of outbreaks, the gastrointestinal tract in 36%, the skin in 7% and the eyes in 2%. Only four organisms – influenza virus, norovirus, salmonella and S pyogenes – made up more than 50% of all infectious agents involved (Utsumi et al, 2012)."
Seems clear to me the experts knew Covid-19 could be a severe problem based on previous knowledge. More than a whiff of incompetance in my book. Though according to your own jaundiced view it is a case of paying peanuts and getting monkeys. though of course you rather implied it rather than coming straight out and saying it. Hardly PC in my book.
It doesn't help that the staff are just about the lowest-paid in the land, receive only the most basic training and are daily confronted with some tasks that many of us would find unpleasant. Mr Shaw
and Mr Carroll
What Seve said about overworked, underpaid and unappreciated care-home workers - with knobs on

Infection in care homes has been a well-recognised problem for years. It is the professionals should have been on the ball, why not place blame where blame is due. The NHS is one of the largest employers in the world, presumably they have one or two experts on the payroll.. They are the body that took their eye off the ball, why keeping trying to shove blame on the government?

Some of these comments are in really bad taste, Iain, namely the Shipman/Liverpool pathway comments. I have removed this part of your post.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 20 - 03:51 PM

There is a difference between: "it is uncertain whether earlier intervention in care homes (or more PPE) would have greatly reduced the casualty numbers."

And: "the casualty numbers would have been lower."

I think you are trying to excuse the inexcusable.

I am not trying to excuse anything. Just pointing out the arrant nonsense posted by Steve Shaw, and presumably accepted, without question, by those who feel that, whatever they do, the government cannot be doing the right thing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 20 - 03:16 PM

"it is uncertain whether earlier intervention in care homes (or more PPE) would have greatly reduced the casualty numbers."

Sorry Nigel this statement is abject nonsense.

Had the PPE required been available, had the information regarding the virus been available earlier, if the carers had more reliable information, if the government had done more to prevent the spread of the virus of course the casualty numbers would have been lower.

I think you are trying to excuse the inexcusable.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 20 - 02:57 PM

Telling us that other countries are just as bad is no excuse. And there is nothing fake about the factual content of my post.

You mean like: The reason this Tory government is culpable apropos of care homes ("culpable" being tantamount to causing many hundreds of unnecessary deaths)
Definitely untrue! The deaths are 'caused' by the virus. The government may not have prevented them, but that is not the same as 'causing' them.
Based on the comparison with other countries (Valid, even if you dislike any facts posted by Iains), it is uncertain whether earlier intervention in care homes (or more PPE) would have greatly reduced the casualty numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 02:28 PM

What a god-awfule competition to become involved in - Engliish deaths v Irish deaths
THESE ARE THE STATISTICS THAT MATTER, espacilailly to relatives who have someone in such homes to worry about
OR THESE
AND THIS HORRIFIC FACT
Jim Caaarroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 20 - 02:23 PM

Telling us that other countries are just as bad is no excuse. And there is nothing fake about the factual content of my post. You are trolling again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 20 - 01:05 PM

If what you say is true care home deaths in the UK would be anomalously high compared to the rest of   Europe. This is demonstrably untrue.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-was-devastating-europes-nursing-homes-well-before-the-us-here-are-the-lessons-they
and

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52399869
This   would suggest you are posting   provocatve fake   news

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 20 - 11:51 AM

The reason this Tory government is culpable apropos of care homes ("culpable" being tantamount to causing many hundreds of unnecessary deaths) is that they allowed the country to enter this pandemic with nothing like sufficient PPE resources. What resources were available were generally diverted away from care homes into hospitals. On the day that two nurses fully clad in PPE were tending every minute of the day to Boris Johnson in hospital, care workers and care home residents all over the country were being relentlessly exposed to infection. OK for some, eh? The Tories have been in charge for ten years. They ignored Exercise Cygnus in 2016 which had modelled a pandemic and shudderingly accurately predicted a terrifying shortfall in NHS resources. Not only did they not act on it, they didn't exactly make the findings public. So I'm holding this Tory government one hundred percent to blame for the disaster in so many care homes. Since 2016 they've had their eye off the ball, pursuing instead a stupid brexit strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 20 - 11:42 AM

There he goes again, insults then says it's a joke!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 10:26 AM

HERE
Jim Cattoll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Barb'ry
Date: 08 May 20 - 10:10 AM


Bonzo, if someone, somewhere but not me, were to say, "right wing, gold medal goose stepping droolers..." wherever in social media those people may be it would be bound to upset someone, somewhere and could cause unwanted and vociferous attention. This, in turn, could in some circles be called trolling, which, as you know is forbidden on this place on social media. Please desist.
Anyone of a different political persuasion making similar comments that may be considered trolling, should also desist.
Thanking you all
b

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 20 - 09:20 AM

The government has been widely criticised for their poor response to the Corona Virus.

They appear to have learnt little from the advice they have received from the scientific community and now they are seeking to limit the damage to themselves from that inaction.



Inaction

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 08:50 AM

"Put your own house in order first Jim."
It was a joke rag - couldn't you tell
I don't tell others who to post to - nobody should
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 20 - 08:42 AM

Interesting points made by Paul Lewis on his Twitter Feed, suggesting that a cull of the sick and elderly in order to benefit the insurance and pensions industry could have been one of the driving forces behind the government’s ‘herd-immunity’ and ‘take it on the chin’ bollix during the early part of the Covid-19 pandemic in the UK.

It’s occurred to me more than once that, knowing this government’s predilection for taking care of the welfare of the wealthy and big business, rather than that of the proles, this may very well be at the core of their thinking and lack of timely, positive action.
So backwoodsman by repeating a twitter feed you are accusing the   UK   government of deliberately exposing care home inhabitants to risk and thereby murdering them. Rather a ridiculous assertion as that is the demographic that most heavily supports the Tories,   Was it the tories causing the excessive care home deaths documented in other countries as well?
   
Deliberate cull is a slur that really needs a little more to back it up. For anyone not on the left such posts would be construed as deliberate trolling. That is why you posted such a   totally unfounded reckless accusation.
However   had   you posted:Last week, Keir Starmer was forced to admonish Diane Abbott and Bell Ribeiro-Addy for taking part in a Zoom chat with a number of notorious Labour antisemites, including Jackie Walker and Tony Greenstein. His warning clearly made no difference as just a day later Abbott and Ribeiro-Addy – who this time was hosting – held a Zoom festival sharing a platform with notorious Anti-Zionist Chris Williamson supporter Lindsey German. This time the pair were joined by Jeremy Corbyn and Apsana Begum…
That is    well documented   and true. Keir Starmer passed up the opportunity to act the first time Abbott and Ribeiro-Addy shared an online platform with antisemites, will he assert his authority this time?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 20 - 08:20 AM

Put your own house in order first Jim.

YOU are the worst offender in this regard by a country mile. Don't tell me who I can or cannot respond to until such times as you follow your own "advice"

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 08:09 AM

Don't play with your food Rag - what have you been told :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 May 20 - 07:59 AM

"Don't forget that with the exception of Kier Starmer, whom I have a lot of time for, is totally inefective, completely and totally ineffective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Who or what is "inefective" (???) Bonzo, you don't actually say.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:44 AM

Re VE Day, my poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, with photos, "Remember Them?"

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:16 AM

Interesting points made by Paul Lewis on his Twitter Feed, suggesting that a cull of the sick and elderly in order to benefit the insurance and pensions industry could have been one of the driving forces behind the government’s ‘herd-immunity’ and ‘take it on the chin’ bollix during the early part of the Covid-19 pandemic in the UK.

It’s occurred to me more than once that, knowing this government’s predilection for taking care of the welfare of the wealthy and big business, rather than that of the proles, this may very well be at the core of their thinking and lack of timely, positive action.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:09 AM

" is totally inefective, completely and totally ineffective"
Good tio hear
He's a Tory in mufti - no wonder you admire him Bozo - that confirms what he is
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:06 AM

Don't forget that with the exception of Kier Starmer, whom I have a lot of time for, is totally inefective, completely and totally ineffective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:56 AM

RA report of the effects of Populism from te organisation set up to monitor freedom end democracy in Europe has reported that Hungary is no longer a democratic Country since populism put Orban in the driving seat and Poland is heading in the same direction
Things really have got to change
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:44 AM

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/17/coronavirus-care-homes-could-be-where-over-half-of-europe-s-covid-19-deaths-occur-says-new

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:25 AM

The numbers are important - defending them is political posturing and highly dangerous - it encourages complacency
You merely defended a shitty Government rather than pointing out the dangerously high figures - as you do
The goverment has fucked up

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:20 AM

As ever, James O’Brien setting out the truth about the Johnson administration’s cluelessness over how to handle the pandemic (despite there being plenty of clues from China, New Zealand, Spain, Italy, South Korea, etc.) and their obsession with ‘public approval ratings’ (rather like Trump), culminating in the briefing of their tame ‘newspapers’ {spit} in order for them to run what amounts to an unofficial opinion-poll on what to do next...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/coruscating-monologue-uk-response-coronavirus/

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 20 - 04:44 AM

You are the one first making an issue of numbers. Date: 07 May 20 - 03:09 PM
I merely point out that giving raw figures without any context is not only misleading, but wrong. There is no way to stop the virus, merely to attempt to control the rate of spread. As a swedish professor states: by the time the dust has settled the mortality rates are liable to be similar throughoout Europe.
It is also important to point out that lockdown has done nothing to help the most vulnerable in care homes. Not just in the UK but Ireland, France, Spain and likely all other countries when the final analysis is done.
By emptying hospital beds and mothballing nightingale hospitals, where did all these elderly people go? and how thorough was the testing regime?
Was the horrific care home death toll the fault of government, the NHS, or society? We employ "experts" - what went wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 20 - 04:14 AM

While people continue to die the Government and its supporters quibble over whether the figures are the worst or second worst in Europe and whether the admitted "worst" means numbers or percentages"
Nice to know our futures are in safe, responsible hands
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 08 May 20 - 02:59 AM


There is a risk of 'populism versus the government' over the next few days. According to live feed:
I think not!
(then a whole bunch of stuff about papers attacking governments, death rates and so on)


That is not what I was talking about. What I was referring to was that the popular press has been implying a significant relaxation of lockdown was imminent and so popular opinion might decide that they could breach the rules early. The government is fighting hard (Thursday night) to recover the position and say the lockdown must continue, after all the tabloids on Wednesday proclaimed Monday might the day we are somehow freed. Not only are the government apparently concerned a lot of the population could in effect defy the government rules, you are getting similar expressions of concern from the police.

The papers on Friday seem to be more sober, and fortunately seem to have dropped this potentially damaging - even fatal - line about relaxing the rules.   The Prime Minister has still created a problem for himself on Sunday when he said at Wednesday's PMQ there may be some relaxation on Sunday, and the police are still indicating they are worried about what that might do to the following weekend, but I think since the press have cut back on the promotion, the risk of widespread rule-breaking is reduced.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:47 PM

The worst figures in Europe are actually from Belgium with a   death rate of 726 per million of population. A crude death rate of a country unqualified by population numbers is   meaningless, even more so   when death statistics are   gathered in different ways with varying accuracy country   to country. Direct comparisons are not possible.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 03:09 PM

The Horses's Mouth admission without the lethal political bullshit

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/uk-office-for-national-statistics-says-death-toll-has-climbed-above-32000-to-mark-worst-in-europe-ahead-of-italy-2020-05-05
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 02:59 PM

Just opened my regular ad from the Israeli Labour paper Haaretz covering the antics of the wanker in the White-House

Jews Control Chinese Labs That Created Coronavirus': White Supremacists’ Dangerous New Conspiracy Theory

Wonder if Israel will push on with their plans to name the new Jerusalem railway station after him !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 02:52 PM

That   was sent before   I had finished editing and previewing.
My   apologies. I   thought I had ticked the preview

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 02:50 PM

and in other news
Has Germany just blown up the Eurozone?
While the Constitutional Court found that the ECB’s regular QE activity (e.g. the Public Sector Purchasing Programme) does not contravene Article 123 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, the verdict specifies the necessary conditions that the PSPP satisfies. The implication is that the Pandemic Emergency Purchasing Programme does not satisfy them.

In other words, even the minor concession made to the vulnerable members of the Eurozone is now under threat. As for Eurobonds, forget it! They’re not happening. Not now, not ever.
https://unherd.com/thepost/has-germany-just-blown-up-the-eurozone/
I wonder how   they will stick    a bandaid on this little contretemps?
https://www.ft.com/content/db720dde-19e8-4e9c-bbfb-b4d48db71a6c

        Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [e-mail] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
        https://www.ft.com/content/db720dde-19e8-4e9c-bbfb-b4d48db71a6c

        The decision has the potential to unleash a constitutional crisis in the EU’s biggest member state and with it the entire eurozone. It raises questions about the ECB’s sacrosanct independence and the credibility of the rulings of the EU’s highest court in Luxembourg.
What a can of worms!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 01:52 PM

There is a risk of 'populism versus the government' over the next few days. According to live feed:
I think not!
The media thrive on gotcha moments and sniping at the government of the day.
The worldometer website clearly shows the UK is atypical in the graphs displayed compared to Spain for example. Spain shows a pronounced peak in both infections and deaths, thus providing a clear timeline for relaxation of lockdown measures.   The curves for the UK are less pronounced and thus give   no clear timeline yet for relaxation measures. Why this atypical behaviour is shown is unknown, but I suspect having heathrow as the busiest hub in europe may well have a role to play.
The mail claims the UK has had the most deaths in Europe.This is announced with no qualification.
However in terms of deaths per million of population(a much safer metric, despite being not directly comparable) Spain, Italy annd Belgium show higher figures. Typical mainstream   scaremongering with no basis in reality.
UK 66.5 million   Deaths 30,615 451/million
Italy 60.36million   Death29,998 485/million

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 01:12 PM

Incidentally - I was referring to Iainls political philosophy - certainl not his behaviour
He stands unique on that front
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 12:52 PM

"I do see quite a lot of similarities between you and Iains though."
I am trying to avoid that level of insulting - can I request you do
I see you vaguely a government-status quo supporter who regards a suggestion of change as a call to revolution, or at least "a one party system"
If I made a mistake, I apologise - If you can mistake my political position -as you continue to do, than I hope I can be forgiven for mistaking yours
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 May 20 - 12:46 PM

"I do see quite a lot of similarities between you and Iains though."
Not helpful. And not true.

How can anyone deny what Rain Dog sees?
He may be mistaken in what he believes he sees, but no one can fairly state that his comment is not true!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 20 - 12:27 PM

"I do see quite a lot of similarities between you and Iains though."

Not helpful. And not true.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 May 20 - 12:09 PM

You are correct Rain Dog, the report says he went to the kent Coast.

Link

Either way he is breaking the rules that the rest of us have to follow.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 20 - 11:58 AM

No he was not stopped at Dover. The police went to visit him up north in Kent after complaints were made about his visit, after he had posted his video I imagine.

He seems to find it hard being out of the limelight.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 20 - 11:46 AM

Jim posted "Somebody else sahring your politics did."

Oh how wrong you are and not for the first time. I do see quite a lot of similarities between you and Iains though.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 May 20 - 11:45 AM

Farage is at it again. Stopped once again by the Police in Dover.

What an arsehole this man is. I hope the Police throw the book at him. He has been spoken to once and had obviously ignored the warning.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 11:39 AM

" Oh and I did not mention Sweden either."
Somebody else sahring your politics did
" complain about perceived insults."
" you might all be able to get out more."
Which wasn't an insult of course
Iains has been branded a troll by the mods who have instructed us to ignore him - think on't
"I think that is more your image than mine Jim"
That's the definition of the populism Iains advocates for - read the FT article and tell me it isn't
It gavve the world Hitler ansd Mussolini - now it has given Britain Brexit
As I said - business should never have a say in people's well-being - the fact that it has here sums up the contradictory loyalties of your Government
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 20 - 11:08 AM

I see that Household Waste Recycling Centres are reopening around the country. Not before time. Here in Kent they are reopening from 15.5.20 for 'essential' use. Slots will have to be booked in advance and you will only be able to book one trip in any 4 week period.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 20 - 10:54 AM

Jim posted "If so - I suggest you rethink your 'sheep to the slaughter' image of the British 'ordinary person'"

I think that is more your image than mine Jim. Oh and I did not mention Sweden either.

+
DMcG

I think that we will see some relaxation but not a substantial relaxation of the lockdown. I agree that the press coverage, as usual, has not helped along with the message that something will be said on Sunday. I was in town late morning and there were quite a few people walking around, albeit keeping a safe distance from each other. There was the usual manoeuvring to obtain a more southern position in the precinct. If the weather holds I expect to see more people out and about over the long weekend.

Might well be an idea to allow, encourage DIY stores and garden centres to open, if they have not done so already. Shame to waste all that spare time that people had.