BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 10:52 AM

Absolutely Mac
The message from number 10 is contradictory - the only consistency lies with the exxpets who say "to soon" - though the may differ in nuance on occasion
Busness cannot have a say in this on the ground of 'self interest'
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 20 - 10:19 AM

There is a risk of 'populism versus the government' over the next few days. According to live feed:

======

Johnson has told his cabinet that the government will adopt “maximum caution” as it moves to ease the lockdown. Johnson chaired a cabinet meeting this morning and, according to the prime minister’s spokesman, Johnson told his ministers:

We are not going to do anything that risks a second peak. We will advance with maximum caution in order to protect the NHS and to save lives. We will be guided at every step by the science and the data and we will closely track the impact of any easing of the social distancing measures and will not hesitate to tighten the rules if required.

======

The flavour of this is very different to a lot of newspaper headlines, including the Daily Mail, the Sun, the Express and the Daily Star, which all talk as if there will be a substantial relaxation of the lockdown from Monday. The Telegraph is more stately, merely saying '"Stay at Home" advice to be scrapped', but all of them seem counter to the "maximum caution" approach from number 10.

If populism wins out, we could wipe out all the potential benefits of the lockdown at a stroke.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 May 20 - 09:54 AM

Doomsday Clock jumped a lot closer this year with Trump in place.

Iains loves to use examples that set all of you on edge, he calculates his posts in order to do that. Whether or not accounts stay open or take time off for bad behavior, it would be nice if you would stop feeding the troll.

Reminders aren't invitations to reply or argue.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 09:33 AM

Incidentally
I assume everybody is aware that the unstable Prick on Pennsylvanian Avenue
has threatened retaliation against China for deliberately starting the virus
Now that really is going to help the World Economy no end - innit - not to mention the Doomsday Clock
Anybody who believes things don't have to change must be as bonkers as he is
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 09:14 AM

"Hilarious Democracy took us   out   of europe."
Tell the victims of the sharp rise in racism that was used to take Britain out that
Or does democracy only count for WASPs
HERE
Democracy can only be democratic when all the facts are available to everybody
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 08:47 AM

We already have mob rule - it's called populism and it took us out of Europe
Hilarious Democracy took us   out   of europe.
Democracy elected MPs who would honour the referendum and get brexit done.
Populism wrecked the parliamentary careers of the traitors.
That was democracy in action.!
Populism=a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
Rather explains how Boris kicked labour into the long grass. Ignore the electorate at your peril. They always have the whip hand.
Boris is getting more popular by the day- that is populism in action.
Doncha jus luv it!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 08:26 AM

If you have a repy RD - I suggest you look a little nearer home that 'Sweden' - whataboutism ain't gonna impress either
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 08:22 AM

"Jim not everyone is going to vote the same way as you."
Of course they're not RD but given The Bank of England has just predicted that Britain is heading for a recession depper than ever recorded and a doubling of Unemployment figures, I defy anyone to predict how the British people will vote in the future
The old 'Pie in the sky' election promises were already wearing pretty thin before all this happened - a situation worse that the 'Hungry Twenties' is hardly going to have the turkeys rushing to the polls to vote for Christmas, is it?
Does anybody really believe the Briish people to be as stupid or as altruistic towards those who already have too much to spend in ten lifetimes? I don't

A single party system is necessary at a time when a system is changing - such as post WW! Russia; that's's not going to happen either
What we have in Britain as a pretense for democracy is a one system system
When that system ceases to serve all the people, as it has been or a long time, new ways forward have to be found - the logical one at present being an agreed coalition of all responsible parties dedicated to clearing up the pandemic mess
Any attempts to return to the old 'dog-eat-dog' system will lead to total anarchy - you only have to remember the mess Thatcher created in dividing Britain into North and South and smashing age old industries without replacing them - mass demonstrations, Poll Tax riots and a sharp and continuing rise in racism (which included institution racism in the forces of 'law and order'
Is that your idea of democracy ?
If so - I suggest you rethink your 'sheep to the slaughter' image of the British 'ordinary person'
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 20 - 07:57 AM

Jim not everyone is going to vote the same way as you. I sometimes think you will only ever be happy in a one party state (as long as that party was the one that you supported)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 07 May 20 - 07:37 AM

Whether New Zealand is or not remote in terms of air traffic is a matter of judgement. For comparison, in 2019 the UK top ten airports had 254,628,734 total passengers of whom 186,339,975 are terminating whereas New Zealand had 41,327,639 total passengers. I am not sure how many of these are between the islands, but I would expect quite a high proportion.

('Terminating' means they were not taking a onward flight elsewhere.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 07:30 AM

Interesting   point of view   from Sweden (from the lancet):
COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown   might   delay   severe cases for a while, but once restrictions   are   eased,   cases   will   reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2931035-7
Rather different to the line being peddled by many here.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 07:27 AM

Thanks Nigel
If you were serious (I hope you were's) you share your fellow Torie's lack of a sense of hmour
We already have mob rule - it's called populism and it took us out of Europe
Using race hate as a political weapon is exactly that
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 07:02 AM

Nigel it is held by many that we are but 9 meals from anarchy when the vittles run out. Perhaps Jim secretly agrees that extended lockdown will have unhappy outcomes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 May 20 - 06:25 AM

Iains: (Britain got rid of all it's lamp-posts) What utter nonsense!

I think Jim is only referring to the low level street lights with cross bars just below the lamp level, suitable for lynchings. (from the rest of his comment). This suggests that he feels mob rule could still be a valid option.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 06:11 AM

(Britain got rid of all it's lamp-posts) What utter nonsense!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 20 - 06:10 AM

david NZ is NOT remote as regards air travel, NEITHER is Australia

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 05:53 AM

"You keep on insisting Ireland is the promised land and has shown the way of the righteous, "
Anybody whoio did that would be incredibly stupid
Ireland id a Capitalist country increasingly dominated and occasionally ruined by Bankers with a superior electoral system to offset ot at least slow down the worst aspects of that fact
It has it's problems as does every other similarly placed country inside the EU and outside but here the people have a louder voice and are not brushed aside once the election results are announced
Demonstrations on the street on water, homelessness, and poverty have caused major rethinks of policy and will continue to do so as several of those demonstrations have led to the setting up of political parties that have now won a voice in the Dail
Ther is no guarantee for the future but at least thaere is a move to getting one
Britain has yet to move from feudal dominance with such throwbacks as a 'constitutional monarchy', and a House of Lords' used for rewarding the rich and the political sell-outs - elderly men (largely) who use 'the other place' as a gentleman's club for an afternoon nap
I think Monique's country had the right idea when they settled their 'growing poverty problem' on the Place de la Concorde a few centuries ago (Britain got rid of all it's lamp-posts)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 05:48 AM

the(Labour) party is more concerned about people and less worried about safeguarding businesses,
Yup! That is labour through and through. Shake rattle and roll the magic money tree!
But if lockdown has trashed the economy labour's popsicles cannot be purchased. The usual total disconnect of the left exemplified above.
If lockdown is prolonged the economy will not be simply hurt, but destroyed. No government can continue to pay a workforce to be idle.
Today it is merely a virus scaring people. On the present path tomorrow will be starvation and societal collapse. Take your choice!
Gettingupin the morning presents risk. Deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:59 AM

The figures were from the express and did not specify what they alluded to. I assumed incorrectly. They actually state the number of seats in the Dáil Éireann,of which there are another 31 I believe, split between a number of minor parties. The lefty greens are the next largest contingent with 12 seats.

Ireland now Iains
You keep on insisting Ireland is the promised land and has shown the way of the righteous, I merely point out it ain't as rosy as you like to make out.

I am very satisfied with the wayy the governmennt is dealing with the crisis, had it been compo clowns I dread to think what would have happened. That is not to say the actions have been   perfect. Perhaps too much emphasis given to   the pantless prat ffrom Imperial with his scaremongering. (his record of the foot and mouth outbreak was many degrees shy of stellar - and how much did that cost?)
I also have issues with the committee that dealt with care homes and their three pathways for emptying hospital beds. Seems to me there was a fourth pathway emanating from Liverpool as a direct result of their recommendations

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/880288/COVID-19_hospital_dischar

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Monique
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:53 AM

Irish elections results. Iain's figures are the number of seats, not the %.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:51 AM

I don't think that the idea of easing (rather than lifting) the lockdown is bizarre. I certainly don't think that the idea is murderous or just putting profit before people.

I expect that they will start to ease restrictions. In all probability the fact that they are talking about it will prompt more people to get out and about this weekend, especially if the weather is ok.

We do need to be considering how we return to 'normal' or the 'new normal' while also keeping an eye on what happens with regards to the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:32 AM

"I also have dealt with data all my working life,compiling,collating and analysing."

Well yes. However, your vast experience didn't prevent you from confusing one rather simple set of data with another earlier today, did it? As you think the Guardian is so unreliable, etc., perhaps you'd be a good fit if you went and worked there...

And now:

"Iain's voting figures from the Irish election add up to 110%!"

Grimm! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:24 AM

The idea that you would even consider lifting the lockdown in England is bizarre, not to say murderous. This is of course a devolved issue in the rest of the UK, and Sturgeon and Drakeford will hold their ground, as they seem to value people above profit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:21 AM

Yes Dick, New Zealand, has two advantages, first it is remote, second it has by far the most capable national leader in the anglophone world. I say national leader there, because Dan Andrews the Victorian state premier would run her close. He is of course getting savaged in the mewling Murdoch press, but he is good. The Australian states, rather than the Australian federal government, are largely responsible for the relatively good performance of Australia in the Coronavirus crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: weerover
Date: 07 May 20 - 04:15 AM

Iains's voting figures from the Irish election add up to 110%!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 20 - 03:38 AM

i think jeremy would have acted quicker as regards a lockdown. i doubt if cheltenham would have happened.the party is more concerned about people and less worried about safeguarding businesses, ironically in the long term having an early lockdown does both of these things witness new zealand.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 20 - 03:26 AM

Ireland now Iains
I take it you've laid off defending the Tory's lethal policy on the virus then
Who's to blame you
A pretty comprehensive history here
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci/special-report-johnson-listened-to-his-scientists-about-coronavirus-but-they-were-slow-to-sound-the-alarm-idUSKBN21P1VF

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 20 - 05:39 PM

That's OK, DMcG. I was puzzled for about 28 seconds!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 20 - 04:39 PM

And as proof of my lack of infallibility I think.I completely misunderstood you post, Steve. My apologies!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 04:37 PM

you'd be a good fit if you went and worked there...

I do have standards you know! There is the press, and the gutter press.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 04:34 PM

At the last election the Irish people overwhenlimingly supposted left wing policies with their vote

        Fianna Fáil38%
        Sinn Féin 37%
               Fine Gael 35%
SINN FEIN leader Mary Lou McDonald has launched a stinging attack on the European Union, accusing it of being "no great friend to Ireland" during the 2008 financial crisis, in a strong indication of growing euroscepticism in her country.
So if the left kick out Varadkar how soon before a referendum on leaving the EU??
Could get interesting!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 20 - 04:34 PM

I have never claimed to be infallible. Working on my phone it is not easy to type and cross check things, so I don't know which two data sets I confused, but if I did I did.

when I said a fact might have been omitted from an article in the Guardian what I had in mind was nothing to with deliberate distortions or errors. It is simply that every newspaper article will include what they think are the most salient points. There is always a judgement how important a detail is, and if space is limited (or time to write it is limited) a less salient point may be omitted. You may include more and more and more of these points in your article, but the need to publish forces you to draw a line somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 20 - 04:05 PM

"I also have dealt with data all my working life,compiling,collating and analysing."

Well yes. However, your vast experience didn't prevent you from confusing one rather simple set of data with another earlier today, did it? As you think the Guardian is so unreliable, etc., perhaps you'd be a good fit if you went and worked there...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 03:28 PM

DMcG I am not about to argue with you. I also have dealt with data all my working life,compiling,collating and analysing. I have yet to encounter 100% accuracy. Any internet search on the accuracy of death certificates uncovers a host of articles in the literature, none particularly flattering when it comes to a discussion of their accuracy.
According to Geriatric Medicine:
In the United States it is estimated that the rate of major errors (eg, incorrect cause of death [CoD], incorrect manner of death) found on death certificates completed at academic institutions is approximately 33% to 40%.1 Internationally, this rate at some hospitals rises as high as 80%. I find it hard to believe they would make these figures up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 20 - 01:58 PM

"Streets ahead? I don't think so. Then you blame that on right wing (do you ever see any other sort?)"
Not when their policies are blindingly obvious RD
Go look at Irish homelessness policy that has caused mass marches - as has water taxation - as has showing arses too vulture capitalism by allowing companies like Goldman Sachs to buy up rented property, evict the tenants
Left wing parties would have done none of that
At the last election the Irish people overwhenlimingly supposted left wing policies with their vote
Now the established parties are forming a coalition to make sure this will not happen
It really isn't rocket science - or delusion
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 20 - 01:55 PM


DMcG I think you attach a reliability to the cause of death on a certificate that simply does not exist.

You are free to think that if you wish. I don't, because I have been dealing with data uncertainty for a very long time indeed. Pretty much all my working life has involved data of dubious quality, inconsistent definitions, different people interpreting the same rules in different ways and so on and so forth. But that's what you think, fine by me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 20 - 01:28 PM

The film has just been put up of Johnson admitting Starmer "is quite right of course" over the Care Home scandal - the fact that he has announced a meeting on Monday to DISCUSS IT
The fact that he has called this meeting in five days time prompt's two thoughts -
1. Why hasn't there been one called before this reached the crisis stage it obviouly has?
and
2. Why leave it for five days if the situation has reached the stage where the Prime Minister has been forced to apologise for it?   

Wonder what UGov have to say about that?
Answers on a postcard.....
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 01:13 PM

DMcG I think you attach a reliability to the cause of death on a certificate that simply does not exist. From the link:
Death certificates from 433 autopsied hospital patients were reviewed and matched against the results of post-mortem examinations. Significant discrepancies between the two documents were observed in 50% of patients. In 25%, the immediate cause of death was incorrectly stated on the certificate, having been assigned to a different organ system in the majority of those cases. In 33%, there was disagreement on major disease other than the immediate cause of death. In 9%, the death certificate was signed before the autopsy was performed. The extent of disagreement was largely independent of whether the certificate was signed before or after the autopsy. We conclude that: (1) there is a significant discrepancy between autopsy diagnoses and entries on death certificates; (2) disagreement is not due to unavailability of autopsy data at the time of completion of the certificate; (3) death certificates should be completed or amended utilizing data gained at autopsy.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1871957
"lthough confirmed cases are reliant on a positive laboratory confirmation of the COVID-19 test, a laboratory diagnosis may not be required for it to be listed as the cause of death. In the UK guidelines, for example, it makes clear that practitioners should complete death certificates to the best of their knowledge, stating that “if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.”

This means a positive COVID-19 test result is not required for a death to be registered as COVID-19. In some circumstances, depending on national guidelines, medical practitioners can record COVID-19 deaths if they think the signs and symptoms point towards this as the underlying cause."
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths
It is nnot   a perfect world.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:40 PM

Maybe that is not an accurate quotation in (or from) the Guardian.
Then again maybe it is.

Or maybe you have highlighted the wrong bit: Notice that in (or from)?

Why do you think I put both of those, rather than just one? I will answer: because I thought it possible that it was an accurate quotation from the Guardian, but that the Guardian had not seen and/or reported the fact that only 7.8% of the deaths in care homes had be confirmed as due to the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:39 PM

Here we go again slagging off yougov. Do you not ever get bored?

A King’s College survey found that a majority of people (58%) think the government has adapted well to the changing scientific information and situation. Almost 90% support the lockdown measures while 81% support the increased powers given to police.
and a little piccie fromm the Sky news survey where it paints a thousand words and none of it good for newspapers
https://i2.wp.com/blogsmedia.lse.ac.uk/blogs.dir/19/files/2020/04/Screenshot-2020-04-24-at-09.23.10.png?ssl=1

and   a little gem from guido that could be most informative:
How can the UK economy get back on its post-pandemic feet? How will the government address the massive debt mountain created in the wake of coronavirus?   And how quickly should Britain return to work?
https://order-order.com/2020/05/06/from-rishi-to-rags/

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:34 PM

Mind you, he has promised to pu things right on Monday
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/boris-johnson-drops-clear-hint-coronavirus-lockdown-measures-will-change-on-monday-as-he-confirms-sunday-speech

Wonder how many people will die between now and then !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:30 PM

"Maybe that is not an accurate quotation in (or from) the Guardian."
One of those reports is early a month old - the other had been overtaken by recent admissions and events
In this situation the en=vents alter daily
Johnson made his confession today - I kow he is prone to telling porkies, but only when they are in his interest
How about addressing stated facts thather than opinions
Did he lie ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:10 PM

Maybe that is not an accurate quotation in (or from) the Guardian.
Then again maybe it is.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/half-of-coronavirus-deaths-happen-in-care-homes-data-from-eu-suggests
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/is-comparing-covid-19-death-rates-across-europe-helpful-

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:04 PM

Steve
It neds to be remembereed that UGov is a right wing set up organisation which canvasses for information among the same type of people
It also needs to be remembered taht the poster here brushes aside all surveys, Government statements political opinions and press reports that don't suit him or don't come from criminal bloggers as "fake News
I'm sure you know tat
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:00 PM

Here is the latest one:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/media/articles-reports/2020/04/29/no-trust-media-has-not-collapsed-because-coronavir
This is where   we discerning tories have a lower level of trust than the gullible left.

Labour voters have become more trusting of media, while the latest YouGov poll reveals that trust has fallen among Conservative voters over the past week. While this partisan gap is quite typical for trust in BBC journalists (who since 2010 have usually been viewed more positively by Labour supporters), it has been turned on its head for broadsheets. Traditionally Conservative voters have tended to be more trusting of upmarket newspapers, but this is no longer the case – with 46% of Labour voters saying they trust journalists from these papers, but just 29% of Conservative voters saying so (a nine-point swing on the partisan balance of opinion from December).
Since no sensible tory even gives bin space to the guardian, whatever it may say is of no interest   to the ruling party or its membership.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 20 - 11:49 AM

Not as "rather misleading" as the fact that you are presenting us with an entirely different survey that was carried out before Coronavirus. Or perhaps you didn't notice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 06 May 20 - 11:42 AM

TV broadcasters continue to outrank all national newspapers in overall trust ratings and audience levels, aided by their far wider reach."
YouGov figures show British trust in the press to tell the truth has fallen, with less than half believing BBC news journalists are honest and impartial

As the BBC responds to claims of bias following its coverage of the general election, YouGov polling reveals that faith in BBC News journalists to tell the truth has dropped, but the trend is not unique to the broadcaster, with trust in journalists falling across the board.

Less than half of Britons (44%) now say they trust the institution to tell the truth despite its public charter to remain politically neutral. This is a fall of seven percentage points since October.
Britons see the tabloid press as the least trustworthy, with half (51%) now saying they wouldn’t trust the newspapers in this bracket to tell the truth at all, and another third (34%) saying they wouldn’t
trust the paper much, for a total of 85% of UK adults who don’t fully
trust the tabloids. Over half have little trust i the upmmarket papers.

This mmakes the guardian figures rather misleading. and I can provide the link

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/16/do-britons-trust-press

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 20 - 11:01 AM

A bit more:

"The Guardian’s coverage of the coronavirus outbreak is considered to be substantially better than that of any other British newspaper, according to a University of Oxford study looking at the UK population’s attitudes to news during the lockdown.

According to the research, twice as many Britons said they felt the Guardian was doing a “good job” covering the pandemic compared with the Times, its nearest rival.

The Guardian’s website was also one of the most-read sources for information on the outbreak, second only to BBC News. This fits with internal traffic statistics which show the Guardian has consistently reached record audiences over the last two months, while also seeing a surge in reader contributions to fund its journalism.

Other outlets fared less well but the Sun and the Mail were the only national newspapers where more people felt they were doing a “bad job” than approved of their reporting on the pandemic.

The survey by YouGov for the University of Oxford’s Reuters Institute also found that the BBC’s output continues to dominate online news consumption in the UK, with 36% of the population saying they had turned to the public service broadcaster’s website for coronavirus coverage.

Around 16% said they had visited the Guardian’s website, with Sky News and MailOnline in joint third place on 9%.

TV broadcasters continue to outrank all national newspapers in overall trust ratings and audience levels, aided by their far wider reach."

There's more, and there are are caveats, if you can be arsed to look it up for yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 20 - 10:54 AM

From the letter to subscribers:

"...an Oxford University survery of 2,700 people in the UK found that Guardian coverage of Covid-19 has been substantially better than that of its newspaper rivals with twice as many Britons impressed by our work on the pandemic compared to any other British newspaper. This is a hugely satisfying verdict given how hard our teams have been working over the past six weeks. In a note to staff, our editor-in-chief Katharine Viner said: "Thank you very much, once again, for your brilliant work through this crisis. Your energy, resilience and commitment are inspiring."

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 May 20 - 10:50 AM

The Guardian has been by far the most critical of the government of all newspapers, and a poll published yesterday (in a letter to subscribers with a graph that this website won't let me reproduce) showed that it is the newspaper most trusted on Coronavirus reporting, by a considerable margin. Maybe that's lookupable somewhere. Is the situation in care homes the Tory government's fault? Absolutely it it is, one hundred percent. The Tories have been in charge for ten years. They have made promise after broken promise that they would fix the care sector. Instead, they have done nothing and have sat back whilst the ageing population grows ever larger. The situation in care homes was a disaster waiting to happen, and, as with every other aspect of this pandemic, the Tories have been way behind the curve every step of the way. Well, I suppose you could always blame God. Maybe you think the buck should stop with those feckless enough to allow themselves to get into such a state that they need care, a bit like those fatties...