Can anyone learn to sing

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Merritt
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 04:39 PM

Diane,

Ignore all those who laugh and doubt. Find your voice and enjoy it.

Vibrato is a likely a vocal "technique" you can learn, as suggested above. For me tho', vibrato is part of my natural voice that I'm getting to know. The more I sing and relax into my natural voice, the more the vibrato finds its place, pace and proper resonance.

I'm not recommending an untrained approach necessarily, just offering a path that's working for me.

- Merritt


"It's all one big note." - F. Zappa

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Frankham
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 06:57 PM

Diana,
Keep at it. Pay no attention to your father. I sense an agenda underneath his laughter. Your boy friend is right. The more you practice, the better you become and the laughter is irrelevant. Your voice teacher is not in the business of playing games with you. (I say this without knowing who it is but voice teachers have a vested interest in the success of their students.)

When I was in junior high school in California, I was asked not to sing but to mouth the words of the song by the teacher. The irony is that I have been able to make a living as a singer. If you love to do it, you will get better.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Alice
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 07:05 PM

Diana, keep practicing and close your ears to the teasing and laughter. The exercises your teacher gives you are going to sound unusual to anyone who doesn't know what it takes to develop vocal technique. You are learning what it takes, your teacher is guiding you. Trust your teacher and keep going. If you have to go into the shower to practice, do it there or in the car, where the other people won't bother you. Don't give up. Those muscles you are training will get stronger and stronger as you build them up with practice.
IT IS WORTH IT IN THE END. Some day they will realize that you have become a singer because you were willing to persevere through all the training exercises and classes, and when you have that voice polished, no one can take it away from you.

Alice

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Carly
Date: 20 Feb 03 - 07:54 PM

Frank,

Your music teacher must have migrated from Maryland. I had the identical experience in a required junior high music class. I was told I was a valuable member of the class, however; I could sell tickets to the concert. I was a closet singer after that, until my college roommate, and the combined support of many FSGW members, got me to open my mouth. I am not one of the world's great voices, but there are people who seem to like my singing, and have even been willing to pay to hear me. Most importantly, I love to sing, especially in groups of poeple, and I will not deny myself that joy.

Diana, Do not let ANYONE keep you from singing, especially that interior voice of doubt that has been planted in you.

Mmario, I sympathize with your interior struggle. I still suffer from attacks of terror that I will open my mouth and people will flee.I deal with it in public by concentrating on the thought that whoever is listening will love the music, the stories and the emotions, and forgive my shortcomings.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 21 Feb 03 - 06:30 AM

Diana, is there anywhere you can practice away from the hearing of your family? It really is painful to be laughed at when you are doing what you love. I applaud you for continuing with it- and I echo the others- keep at it!

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:41 AM

Does anyone know any exercises you can do to develop vibrato in your voice? Thank You

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: duncan the drifter
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:33 PM

I feel that most people can sing,however, I also believe that it takes lots & lots of pratice & confidence is a must.Without confidence there is not much hope.Like someone said find a singer you like & sing along with him,after awhile you will find your own style.I found that ? very interesting & enjoyed reading the many answers. thanks & have a large DAY

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,Diana
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:54 PM

Hello, I believe that singing to a group or a singer you like will help your voice, I would never have thought I could even come close to singing in a Operatic style if it weren't for this band Nightwish I listen to all the time. However, I also felt like I was trying to copy her voice to much to where I was forcing my voice to go lower than it can really go. But now that I am taking voice lessons I'm starting to realize my voice is much higher(Which I never would have thought, because it sounds so hard)and I can sing to Nightwish but at my own range. But singing to singers you like I think that really does help, when you enjoy singing to something you love I think that helps you learn better.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,Craiggy
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 11:23 AM

Ofcoarse ANYONE can sing. All you need is a voice and an ear.
Every human is made in the same way. Excluding deaf people, we all have the ability to listen, and all have the ability to talk.
That's all you need. Ofcoarse one needs to listen and learn, but everyone is able to sing.

:)
Craig

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 12:21 PM

not had time to read all this thread yet..

i believe anyone can be trained to perform a song
to some degree of tuneful competancy
if the individual is confident enough
and puts in the work required to learn..

my problem which prevents me having the confidence
to move more centre stage
is i just cant remember lyrics..
not sure how much this is due to
under-developed personal skills and techniques of recall..

or plain and simple aging brain cell deterioration..

my mrs however has an uncanny photographic memory for songs
but no sense of rythm or melody whatsoever..

[she really loves kareoke, i'm not so enthusiastic..!!??]

i really envy mates who can work as vocal duos with their wives/girlfriends..

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: IanC
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 12:39 PM

If you can walk, you can dance;
If you can talk, you can sing
old czech proverb.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:40 PM

Maybe anyone can learn to sing, but should they? After all, there would then be hardly anyone in the audience. I went to a local folk concert last night with 5 different groups of performers (about 10 altogether) and barely 20 in the audience.

An English poet, I think it was Samuel Taylor Coleridge, in "Epigram on a Volunteer Singer", wrote;

Swans die before they sing; 'twere no bad thing
Should some persons die before they sing

Actually it is a myth that swans sing before they die (or at any time; the common "Mute Swan" of the British Isles merely hisses, though the Whooper and Bewick's Swans which are winter visitors make a sort of trumpeting sound - I think the Whooper may be known in North America as the Trumpeting Swan, but am not sure). However all this does not, in my opinion. invalidate Coleridge's point.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:55 PM

If you can walk, you can dance.
If you can talk, you can sing.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: *Laura*
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:19 PM

I've always had the problem that if I try and sing very loud it all falls apart. But I've just started having singing lessons (mainly because I want to audition for the Les Mis schools edition my theatre company are doing) and it's really helping my voice and my confidence.
I think everyone can learn to sing really - you just need to find a style you like, and that suits you - and get up the confidence to go for it!

xLx

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 06:06 PM

If I work hard and practice a lot then I can be an indifferent singer. Just isn't worth the effort when I am a good dancer anyway.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,M
Date: 01 May 12 - 01:03 PM

Hi ,

Singing is not really easy. You need lot of practise to become a good singer. I recently downloaded a mobile app to learn singing.
I am more interested in learning Bollywood music but have found excercises in this
application very useful. I can see lot improvement in my vocal quality in last
few months.



If anyone wants to try its here:



http://gaapp.co.uk/




Good luck

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 01 May 12 - 05:45 PM

This thread reminds me of a cautionary quote from Samuel Taylor Coleridge:

"Swans sing before they die - 'twere no bad thing should certain persons die before they sing."



Rog

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Megan L
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 03:40 AM

Both Ian C and Peace quoted

"If you can walk, you can dance;
If you can talk, you can sing
old czech proverb. "

However a recent experience on youtube sincerely has me doubting the veracity of the proverb.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 07:53 AM

I'd say 95% can learn to some degree, but if you'd heard my Brother and Brother-in-law, you'd realise there are a few who really shouldn't even try

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 09:19 AM

Nonsense. Anybody has the right to try. And perhaps with a skilled teacher, the brother and brother-in-law could learn to sing.

There are only a few normal people who absolutely cannot learn to sing a tune. (Handicapped people seem to be a different story.) The rest of us either do it naturally or can be coached.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: John P
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 09:35 AM

I think it all depends on what you mean by "learn to sing". I agree that almost anyone can get from bad to adequate, but I've never heard anyone get to professional quality who didn't start with a lot of natural talent.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Mark Clark
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 02:15 PM

Leeneia said “There are only a few normal people who absolutely cannot learn to sing a tune.” I would argue that just because those people aren't missing limbs or suffer from sensory deficiencies doesn't mean they are "normal." The inability to learn to sing is probably the result of a learning disorder or other handicap. Scientists are telling us that singing probably came before language in human development.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: kendall
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:16 PM

Babara is right, no. If your ears are unable to tell the difference between a 440 aND A 438 YOU WILL SING FLAT.
Iq has nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: kendall
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:17 PM

A one legged man can not win a foot race.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:25 PM

Kendall: not so true anymore.

I've heard that pitch sensitivity can be taught/learned, and I don't know enough to argue against it. I'm pretty sure Pete Seeger once wrote an article on it. I'm "pretty sure" because I remember reading it, or about it in SingOut!

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 05:39 PM

Neat article here with good remarks about singing, etc.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 06:46 PM

Alice is doing a service here. One of the most important things said is:
"I think the hardest thing to do for most beginners is to concentrate on the music instead of the emotion. It feels awful not to concentrate on the emotion, but concentrating on the music will eventually pay off."

When you go for the emotions, you can sometimes tie up the cords.

As to vocal quality, one of my favorite singers is Louis Armstrong. (Go figure)

Then, Tony Bennett.

I like Jussi Boerling and Pavarotti too and Renee Fleming.

They all have found their individual voice and just like a fingerprint, everyone's voice is different. The trick is to find your natural voice and this comes with some kind of training.

I think it's very important to find a good vocal teacher who can mirror correct technique for you which you can't get from books and tapes.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,Punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:54 AM

Apparently I was a good enough singer in infant school
to do solo spots on the stage in morning assembly.
But totally lost interest not long after.

By my late teens I was such a self-concious adolescent
I wasn't even capable of braving up to doing backing vocals
in our punk band...

Tried a couple of times at band practice and completely froze with fear.

Teen band scene social drug experimentation induced panic attacks did't help much either...

Never ever attempted singing again
[unless extraordinarily drunk in later life].

But I somehow think I may need to try again
just for the sake of recording demo tracks at home.

I'm obviously older now and much more self assured
and confident at things I'm good at
- and I'm sufficiently mature not to give a shit if I do embarrass myself in public.

My problem nowadays, is that even if I do have a raw innate talent for singing
that could be nurtured by a good teacher,
I no longer have a good enough memory for lyrics...

bollocks....

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 03:49 AM

It's been my experience' after 20 odd years of working in singing workshops with people of varying levels of starting skills, that unless there is actual physical damage or deformity of the vocal equipment (extremely rare) that anybody can sing. Some find it harder than others - in the long run, development of the voice depends entirely on the amount of time and effort you are prepared to put in, both at the beginning and throughout the time you wish to sing.
In The Critics Group, and later in the London Singers Workshop (and various other groups), we used a series of voice developing, singing and relaxation exercises to develop and maintain the voice - they worked for those who were prepared to use them.
The danger was, if you were not careful they could become an objective in themselves rather than a means to an end.
Singing is, or should be, the passing on of emotions, ideas and information via musical sounds married to poetic texts - the voice is the means by which you do this - a collection of tools, all with specific functions which you learn to understand, control and keep in good shape so they are fit for purpose.
Not everybody is going to reach the same level of skill, but if we let this be a factor we would never do anything - you will always find someone who is better than you at whatever you try.
I have to say that I find the logic of the modern method of 'teaching singing', at the various singing weekends I have attended - the passing out of texts, teaching the tune, than singing from the sheet "parrot-fashion", totally unfathomable.
'Learning to sing' is a long-term job which, in my opinion, has to begin with becoming familiar with your voice in order that you can take control of it and push out to the boundaries you feel you want or need to.
As the feller said, the way to The Carnegie Hall or wherever is 'practice' - I don't believe there are any shortcuts.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: kendall
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 09:32 AM

Jeri, these new prosthetic s do replace lost legs, but they are still one legged people.

Try this analogy No Mule ever won the Kentucky Derby. They simply lack the physical ability.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:29 PM

why, of course......anyone can learn to sing!
And everyone should.
Whether or not you can sing in public and be appreciated by others...well, I still would vote for doing it if it makes you happy.
Singing is meant to be a natural as a breath...self judgement is the biggest critic.

Just do it!

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:33 PM

But don't inflict it on the whole world, even if you have the technology.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:44 PM

Inflict away, the "whole world" can deal with it.
It's not so much the people who wish to sing badly in your face who are the problem, but those who've been told they can't sing, and believe it. It's the ones who want to silence them. Ain't gonna happen anyway.

The teachers who tell children for whom they're responsible they "can't sing", are really saying they can't teach.

I started writing a song. I think I should finish it.

Once I had to learn to walk
Then I learned to tie my shoe
And my teachers taught the alphabet
And adding 2 + 2
I didn't know how to do those things
But no one ever said
"You can't do that, so you'll have to go
Outside and play instead"

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: kendall
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:02 PM

When my friend, Gordon was in grammar school he was told that he was a monotone.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: kendall
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:04 PM

Ok, let me add something. If people walk away when you sing, or no one asks you to sing, you probably shouldn't.

I can't speak for anyone else, but people who sing off key drive me bonkers.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:06 PM

It needs to be remembered that the natural, open 'folk' voice is considered ugly by many conventional (particularly classically trained) exponents and teachers.
If anybody tells you you are incapable of singing, get a second opinion - preferably from somebody familiar with the genre that interests you.   
In thirty odd years of work with singers I never met anybody who "couldn't sing" - plenty who were not used to it, and hundreds who had been told they would never be able to, but none who couldn't be developed with a little work.
Group work on individual singers really worked wonders with many new singers.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:07 PM

Acording to my mother,
I was a good singer and enjoyed singing solo at infant school.

I have no memory of why I stopped, or if I still sang at junior school.

At Grammar School our music teacher was ex army
and seemed to resent being stuck teaching us
instead of travelling the world persuing his dreams.

He was strict in going through the motions inflicting classical music upon us.

If he ever made me sing in class
it may have been so traumatising my memory is wiped
with permanent amnesia...???

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:09 PM

I don't mind individuals singing off key by themselves but I find it very difficult if there is a group of people singing and one offkey person...mg

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 07:40 PM

Anyone can learn to sing. But not everyone can learn to sing. I offer your humble correspondent as proof.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 01:15 AM

Some fairly recent studies by apparently qualified researchers have identified certain unusual characteristics in a few people that would suggest that learning to sing may be impossible, or so difficult that they are unlikely to be interested in the attempt.

Although probably rare, there are some who simply can't recognize differences between sounds of different pitches. There are others, similarly rare, who "aint' got no rythm" and really can't dance. In a few cases reported, the individuals not only are unlikely ever to be able to sing, in the conditions studied "they can't even learn to listen" to the extent of being able to recognize and distinguish between music and street noises.

It is unlikely that persons with these conditions will ever show up at a "how to sing" session, so belief in the ability of those who do come to improve on their abilities is justified. It probably is not appropriate to assume that everybody can learn to sing or even that everybody wants to.

For those who really do want to learn how, it's possible that the specification and "giving a name" to some of the barriers may be helpful to those who find themselves attempting to help, in some cases. Individuals with those handicaps probably need very professional help.

For the "social singers" just wanting to help a few who have indicated an interest and are already able to at least "croak interestingly" those studies probably are not something to be concerned about.

Even though it appears that there really are some people who simply can't learn to sing, it is likely that anyone who recognizes and enjoys listening to music probably can learn to join the choir in appropriate situations.

For willing people of the latter kind, good teachers and skilled persons to sing with can help a lot.

John

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:46 AM

Singing is a natural function like walking. People may not like the way you walk, but unless you've got some medical problem, you can sing.

I alway like something Christopher Isherwood the writer (Cabaret) said, go to the seashore stand in the crashing waves and make up operas, sing them to the sky...

I suppose anywhere except down the folk club (that's me!)

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 06:47 AM

I went to a voice coach and asked him:"Can you train my voice?". He replied, after my audition :"Not even with a chair and a whip".

RtS
"Most of the words and some of the notes"

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:17 AM

Well hello again. I said it before (1998 above) and I'll say it again. No, everyone cannot learn to sing. It's likely that everyone can gain some improvement in their vocal quality and delivery, learn things like breath control, vibrato, phrasing, better tonal quality. What I insist, however, is that some cannot reproduce correct pitch. I have seen it in my family. Pitch imperfect, never to be learned.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:20 AM

Oh don't teach them vibrato, they'll end up sounding like Bryan Ferry. ;)

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:31 AM

I'd quite like a singing voice with built in tremolo and overdrive distortion
just like a good vintage Vox AC30 guitar amp...

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:00 AM

I hear the echoes here of the teachers who told me that I couldn't sing, nor would I be able to, so to attempt to try was a waste of my time.
The same teachers were also telling me that all I needed to know when I left school was to be able to tot up my wage packet when I left whatever factory I managed to get a job in, at the end of the week. It was an damning arrogance that put me off music altogether until a series of happy accidents re-introduced me to it and gave me a love (obsession) that has dominated my life for half a century.
Nobody has the right to tell anybody they "can't" sing until they know what lengths they have gone to to learn, and, for that matter, how much effort they are prepared to put in to achieve some sort of a result.
I was lucky enough to have met people who were willing to pass on what they knew and share what they had in order to help me develop whatever little ability and interest I might have started out with.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:02 AM

"I was lucky enough to have met people who were willing to pass on what they knew and share what they had in order to help me develop whatever little ability and interest I might have started out with."

Same here, Jim. Thanks for saying that.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:07 PM

It needed saying.
I get a little tired of people who think they can telling others that they can't.
Perhaps if people who have worked with others, as either recipients or helpers, shared their successes and failures with us, we might learn where and where not to go rather than telling others that they'll never make singers while they have holes in their a****.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 09:20 PM

In fact I never told the "monotones" I knew that they couldn't sing: they told me. We all sang anyway, some of us closer to pitch than others.

You could be right, Jim Carroll, that with extensive effort at great lengths, they could be taught to correct the pitch problems. I only know that these two tried quite a bit for quite awhile and finally settled for happily singing off-key.

Subject: RE: Can anyone learn to sing
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:47 AM

Barbara
We worked with a number of singers with severe pitch problems - with a degree of success in all. To my recollection it was always a case of aspiring singers not knowing how to use their vocal apparatus because they had never tried to.
In such cases we started simple ten minutes or so exercises on a song with a basic tune; with our group it was usually 'Johnny Todd' - a children's song that had been naused up by being used for the theme tune of a television police series.
The 'victim' would be asked to learn it and bring it back a week later. If they were having problems we devoted some time per session to it, usually by getting one of the group to sing a line and asking the 'struggler' to repeat the line. We persisted with this for as long as he or she was prepared to put in the time; these weren't in any way "extensive efforts at great lengths", simply persevering.
There are other 'tricks' - the much-derided 'finger-in-ear' - cupping the hand over the ear is a millennia-old technique universally used to stay in tune; as is learning to relax, tension being one of the basic causes of not being able to control pitch.      
We all learned practice pieces to improve different aspects of our singing:
Mouth music (Tail Toddle) for accuracy and breath control - a verse and a chorus in 1 breath.
A piece of Gilbert and Sullivan for diction accuracy at speed.
A Wagner piece ('Tis Ended) for handling large intervals
Another (By Evil Craft) for unusually small intervals.
Etc....
Once they are learned they remain with you, I still use them forty years on when my voice is rusty.
The voice needs to be viewed as a musical instrument if you want to sing - nobody would expect to pick up a fiddle or a concertina and play it right away, and they'd be daft to abandon the idea if it didn't work out first time round.
Jim Carroll