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Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)

Related threads:
Dave Bulmer (discussion) (114)
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Dave Bulmer-related enquiry (118)
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Ralphie 13 Sep 04 - 05:46 PM
Ralphie 13 Sep 04 - 06:32 PM
Ralphie 14 Sep 04 - 02:00 PM
The Borchester Echo 14 Sep 04 - 02:29 PM
pavane 15 Sep 04 - 09:27 AM
JudeL 15 Sep 04 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Peter Canning. 15 Sep 04 - 10:32 AM
*Laura* 15 Sep 04 - 03:02 PM
*Laura* 15 Sep 04 - 03:03 PM
Ralphie 15 Sep 04 - 03:19 PM
*Laura* 15 Sep 04 - 03:48 PM
pavane 16 Sep 04 - 02:28 AM
*Laura* 16 Sep 04 - 03:50 PM
*Laura* 29 Oct 04 - 02:06 PM
The Borchester Echo 08 Nov 04 - 04:52 PM
Skipjack K8 08 Nov 04 - 05:43 PM
*Laura* 09 Nov 04 - 03:33 PM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 01 Dec 04 - 02:19 AM
GUEST,Ralphie at work 01 Dec 04 - 01:06 PM
*Laura* 01 Dec 04 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 02 Dec 04 - 03:18 AM
Ralphie 02 Dec 04 - 07:30 PM
red max 03 Dec 04 - 05:27 AM
Ralphie 03 Dec 04 - 05:41 AM
*Laura* 03 Dec 04 - 05:21 PM
GUEST 23 Jan 05 - 08:26 AM
dick greenhaus 23 Jan 05 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,andymac (cookieless but not voiceless) 24 Jan 05 - 12:39 PM
GUEST 25 Jan 05 - 07:23 AM
Bernard 25 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,Rosie Hardman 03 Feb 05 - 01:04 PM
Ralphie 04 Feb 05 - 01:18 AM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 09 Feb 05 - 02:17 AM
GUEST,Lien 19 Feb 05 - 02:38 AM
Lancashire Lad 19 Feb 05 - 03:54 AM
GUEST,Lien 19 Feb 05 - 06:08 AM
shepherdlass 19 Feb 05 - 06:20 AM
Lancashire Lad 19 Feb 05 - 11:09 AM
GUEST 19 Feb 05 - 11:42 AM
Susanne (skw) 19 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM
Lancashire Lad 20 Feb 05 - 01:40 AM
Nerd 20 Feb 05 - 04:31 AM
Lancashire Lad 20 Feb 05 - 07:07 AM
Nerd 20 Feb 05 - 12:17 PM
Lancashire Lad 20 Feb 05 - 01:10 PM
Dita 20 Feb 05 - 01:24 PM
Lancashire Lad 20 Feb 05 - 01:27 PM
Nerd 20 Feb 05 - 03:19 PM
Nerd 20 Feb 05 - 05:22 PM
Lancashire Lad 21 Feb 05 - 04:06 AM
GUEST,Guest 21 Feb 05 - 10:43 AM
pavane 21 Feb 05 - 11:25 AM
Nerd 21 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM
Lancashire Lad 21 Feb 05 - 12:11 PM
Richard Bridge 21 Feb 05 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,Music Mercenary 21 Feb 05 - 04:16 PM
Ralphie 21 Feb 05 - 04:58 PM
Lancashire Lad 22 Feb 05 - 03:32 AM
pavane 22 Feb 05 - 04:59 AM
red max 22 Feb 05 - 05:23 AM
Lancashire Lad 22 Feb 05 - 07:21 AM
pavane 22 Feb 05 - 07:36 AM
Lancashire Lad 22 Feb 05 - 07:40 AM
treewind 22 Feb 05 - 08:22 AM
Lancashire Lad 22 Feb 05 - 08:46 AM
red max 22 Feb 05 - 10:10 AM
pavane 22 Feb 05 - 10:41 AM
Dita 22 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM
Nerd 22 Feb 05 - 03:28 PM
Ralphie 22 Feb 05 - 04:04 PM
Pete_Standing 22 Feb 05 - 06:33 PM
Nerd 23 Feb 05 - 01:33 AM
Lancashire Lad 23 Feb 05 - 02:57 AM
Nerd 23 Feb 05 - 03:45 AM
Pete_Standing 23 Feb 05 - 06:23 AM
Lancashire Lad 24 Feb 05 - 01:20 AM
GUEST,Guest 24 Feb 05 - 02:00 AM
red max 24 Feb 05 - 05:20 AM
GUEST 24 Feb 05 - 07:00 AM
GUEST 24 Feb 05 - 01:06 PM
Ralphie 24 Feb 05 - 05:27 PM
Ralphie 24 Feb 05 - 05:28 PM
Ralphie 24 Feb 05 - 05:28 PM
red max 25 Feb 05 - 04:22 AM
GUEST,Music Mercenary 28 Feb 05 - 06:39 PM
GUEST 01 Mar 05 - 09:51 AM
GUEST,guest 04 Mar 05 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,Guest 19 Apr 05 - 04:17 AM
GUEST 19 Apr 05 - 09:38 PM
GUEST,(a different one) 19 Apr 05 - 10:02 PM
GUEST,Guest: Java Jive 16 May 05 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,Robin 25 Jul 05 - 06:14 AM
GUEST,Robin 25 Jul 05 - 06:24 AM
GUEST,Java Jive 08 Aug 05 - 11:38 PM
GUEST,guest 10 Aug 05 - 01:45 PM
treewind 10 Aug 05 - 04:33 PM
Ralphie 10 Aug 05 - 04:40 PM
Ralphie 10 Aug 05 - 04:43 PM
Leadfingers 10 Aug 05 - 04:49 PM
GUEST 10 Aug 05 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, Isle Of Man 13 Aug 05 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,Java Jive 03 Oct 05 - 04:42 PM
GUEST,Guest 03 Oct 05 - 07:34 PM
Effsee 03 Oct 05 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,J T. 03 Oct 05 - 10:25 PM
GUEST,Mike S. in Bristol 09 Oct 05 - 07:25 AM
GUEST,Jenny. 18 Nov 05 - 06:53 PM
GUEST,Graham in Leeds. 18 Nov 05 - 07:37 PM
GUEST,Graham in Leeds. 18 Nov 05 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 08 Dec 05 - 03:51 AM
GUEST,Ralph 08 Dec 05 - 03:57 AM
Lancashire Lad 08 Dec 05 - 02:20 PM
GUEST 08 Dec 05 - 04:44 PM
GUEST,Diddly Eye Di Di 11 Feb 06 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,Bruce Baillie 11 Feb 06 - 05:07 PM
treewind 11 Feb 06 - 05:38 PM
dick greenhaus 11 Feb 06 - 10:18 PM
sinpelo 19 Feb 06 - 11:07 AM
GUEST 19 Feb 06 - 11:11 AM
sinpelo 19 Feb 06 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 20 Feb 06 - 03:36 AM
sinpelo 20 Feb 06 - 06:48 AM
sinpelo 20 Feb 06 - 08:43 PM
GUEST,Could have been anybody, really ... 15 Aug 06 - 04:38 PM
Roger the Skiffler 16 Aug 06 - 03:58 AM
Roger the Skiffler 16 Aug 06 - 03:59 AM
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Geoff the Duck 16 Aug 06 - 07:40 AM
dick greenhaus 16 Aug 06 - 09:40 AM
nickp 16 Aug 06 - 01:10 PM
dick greenhaus 16 Aug 06 - 08:24 PM
Scotus 16 Aug 06 - 10:02 PM
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The Sandman 01 May 09 - 10:23 AM
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Tyke 14 May 09 - 11:13 AM
pavane 15 May 09 - 02:34 AM
Surreysinger 15 May 09 - 07:05 AM
Dita 19 Aug 09 - 02:45 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 19 Aug 09 - 03:26 AM
GUEST,Rob 08 May 10 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 14 Sep 10 - 01:04 PM
Ralphie 15 Sep 10 - 02:13 AM
GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M 15 Sep 10 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 15 Sep 10 - 02:29 PM
Dita 25 Feb 12 - 10:14 PM
Effsee 25 Feb 12 - 11:35 PM
Will Fly 26 Feb 12 - 05:38 AM
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Dita 28 Feb 12 - 08:42 AM
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Subject: CM 6
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:46 PM

My o My..
Things have come to a pretty pass.
We now have Guests insulting the young daughter of Tony Rose.
This young lady's only ambition is to see her Fathers recordings be made available to the many people who admired him.
An admirable intention from a child to her father.
Liam, if you reply to this thread, you'll look like a prat.
Best wishes to you, Laura, Anahata, and countless others (Andy, etc)
How many years does it take.
Laura.....Happy to carry on with the project, and I'm sure Liam would like a copy of the finished CD. LOL!!
Best Wishes to all, even Liam!
Ralphie


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 06:32 PM

To Explain..

CM is Cetlic Music.....I can see your eyes glazing over already!
Particularly in the USA..!
If you can be bothered, there are countless threads about the situation over here in the UK. (Dave Bulamer/Celtic Music....No probs finding them!)
Go on, dig about a bit....
And as the famous quote from "I Claudius" states.....


"Let all the poisons that lurch in the mud....hatch out"

Bit of a clue

Sleep well all Ralphie


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: Ralphie
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 02:00 PM

Liam Me old mate...
Where are you?
You were making me smile!!
Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 02:29 PM

Where's Liam gone? Why, maybe into the vaults of Bulmer Towers to bring those long-hidden masters into the light of day? Come on, it's not that hard. And although it's too late for too many, there are still lots of people who will even thank you. Think about it.


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: pavane
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 09:27 AM

Maybe the thread title was too obscure?
(PS Is 'the incomparable' Ralphie going to get another slot on JW's prog?)


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: JudeL
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 09:44 AM

Hey Ralphie if yr going to quote, get it right:

"let all the poisons that LURK in the mud ....hatch out"

OED
lurch : an unsteady swaying movement, stagger
lurk : wait furtively or keeping out of sight; be latent





ducking & running to hide   ....
                or perhaps that should be lurching & lurking?


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: GUEST,Peter Canning.
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 10:32 AM

Bulmer aquired these masters in the first place I presume because
nobody else wanted them, I am not an apologist for Mr Bulmer, but
I don't think the demand is out there at the moment to make releases
in the normal way financially viable.
Bulmer's Music by Mail company has released, or will provide some of
them on request CDR'S I know, but still better than nothing.
I am not sure about the royalty situation, but I'm sure it will not
amount to much anyway.


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: *Laura*
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:02 PM

Oh has Liam gone? What a shame, there was something I never got to say to him before.
Starting in 'F' and ending in Off.
but it appears he already has.

cheers Ralphie :-) and everyone. love ya guys!

xLx


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: *Laura*
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:03 PM

(might not be appropriate - but a chord was struck.)

xLx


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:19 PM

Hi all
Firstly. Countess R...Cheers!
Second. Pav, Yes title deliberately obscure, and as far as JW goes...No chance. Once was enough!
Third. JudeL...My memory is not what it was!
Fourth. Peter C. Point well made, and well taken. No arguments with the position, apart from the fact that, whatever meagre royalties there may be, will never find their way back to the artists, and anyway, it's not about money, but about basic humanity. If you haven't reaf all the other threads, I would urge you to do so. But, respect for yur opinion.
Fifth. Laura.....Hope that Liams tirade didn't get to you too much.

Finally, the Mudcat masters closed the last thread because it was getting out of hand. Lets keep the flame alive with this one (But not the Flamers!!)...as has been said many times before, don't rise to the bate, and let's all just keep this factual.

Regards to all, and talk soon no doubt

Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: *Laura*
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:48 PM

No not really. Theres always going to be a few...

cheers though

xLx


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: pavane
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 02:28 AM

"Needn't bother paying royalties, because it won't amount to much"?
Try that with your income tax, for one example!
Laws are laws, and you can't ignore them if you don't like them.
(Well, looks like you can, I suppose, if you are DB)


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: *Laura*
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 03:50 PM

rolling eyes and shaking head. tut tut Mr B.


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: *Laura*
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 02:06 PM

Just wondered what you think of this -
I wrote a letter to Bulmer and got a bit of a cut and paste job back, but apparently Celtic Music are releasing Tony's 'Under the Greenwood Tree' on CD in November. ooooh.
Oh but get this - if me or my family want a copy we can buy it at the artist royalty free price. Makes everything ok again.

xLx


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:52 PM

How generous.

Have you asked for royalty statements so that you can compare sales against receipts?

And what did he say then?


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:43 PM

And I thought this was all about an area of beloved Essex.


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: *Laura*
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 03:33 PM

We're not getting involved. He can poo about with whatever he wants (weird phrase but oh well!) - but I'm f***ed if I'm going to shell out for 100 disks or whatever to speed up the process.

Anyway 'Tony Rose Live' is going to be much better than Bulmer's re-release - and it's OURS!


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:19 AM

I thought that interest in the great music business altruist had come to a frustrated full stop. Only when idling through Google and tapping the name Bulmer did CM6 come to light. My instincts were right after all, he is still the detested person he always was and it seems, still up to his curious royalty tricks ("artist free royalty price") - he just can't resist it. Presumably the writers and publishers will be burnt as well as the artist? I guess with Bulmer its just the "F**K Them" syndrome.

Thanks also for your good wishes Ralphie, keep up the good work, but I do think the thread title should be in line with the previous 5. Many members of the former Bulmer fan club presumably will be like me and will only stumble on CM6 by accident - and that really would be a shame. Keep the light burning.


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: GUEST,Ralphie at work
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 01:06 PM

Hi Andy. Sorry for the obscure name for the thread. After the Flame Fest that Celtic Music 5 became. Joe Offer quite rightly asked me to tone things down a bit...maybe I went too far.
Mind you after reading about Mr B's astonishing offer to Tony Roses daughter, words still fail me at the gall of the man.
Be assured, that, the fight goes on.
Merry Christmas to all in the IOM...
Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: *Laura*
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:04 PM

keeping the light burning!


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:18 AM

Thanks Ralphie, thanks *Laura*. There are a few of us in the Island folk scene who have watched the Bulmer saga for many years and reason that one day the law must catch up with this gentleman and his partner Mr Sharpley. It can only be a matter of time - and even that thick skinned pair must know it.

As for the Tony Rose situation I too am staggered by the transparent audacity not to mention illegality of the proposal. I am sure that the MCPS should now be thoroughly investigating this company and its Directors. For it to be so blatantly put should sound warning bells that this litle scam is probably just the tip of a very large corrupt iceberg.

Tony's family could well take heart from our well known National Emblem of The Three Legs Of Man - with the legend - Quocunque Jeceris Stabit - 'Whichever way you throw me I stand'. Which of course should leave at least one leg to give Bulmer the kicking he needs.


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Subject: RE: CM 6
From: Ralphie
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 07:30 PM

Hey Andy... I never knew about your legs until now...How appropriate!!
And don't worry...not letting go this end!!

Kind Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: red max
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:27 AM

Has Pete Coe given up on this cause? I think it used to rankle him


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:41 AM

Hi Mr Max.

Haven't spoken to Pete recently, but, I think it very unlikely that he's given up!!!

Cheers Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: *Laura*
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:21 PM

I think Bulmer offered him a similar deal to us but he turned him down.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 08:26 AM

Its pretty clear from what I have read that you would have expected nothing more from Bulmer other than to offer a dodgy deal, and by the same reasoning, absolutely nothing less from Pete Coe by refusing to deal.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:40 PM

Does anyone know the details of the contractual agreement between Tony Rose and Leader/Trailer?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,andymac (cookieless but not voiceless)
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:39 PM

Bulmer? Never met him, don't want to. Wouldn't even drink his cider... Sounds well dodgy to be impugning the lovely Laura, never mind his nastiness- well documented towards many artists.
Hope the live CD is coming on fine.
Maybe other artists should look at re-recording some of the stuff he has under lock and key. Then perhaps we could see what the commercial demand is for it? If it isn't commercially available people on both sides can make uncheckable claims....
Still think he's sounds dodgy though...
Andy


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 07:23 AM

Unfortunately, for some, re-recording is no longer possible.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM

Rosie Hardman released 'The Lost Leader' partly because a certain party won't give her access to masters of her recordings...

She is far from happy about it.

Fortunately, she paid Bill leader to record the tracks which were released as 'The Lost Leader', so she owns the copyright.

Although Rosie is very much alive, re-recording is not an option for her, either.

I hope it works out for you, Laura. Tony was one of the truly greats, it was an honour to have known him.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Rosie Hardman
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 01:04 PM

Far from HAPPY about it? I think you might say that Bernard my friend.

I wouldn't even like to BEGIN to describe how I feel about it... but I'm sure that those who remember me will be able to guess. My feelings are as gloriously understated as they ever were at my gigs LOL! :-)

By the way pal - 'Stopped in My Tracks' is due out on CD in the next couple of weeks too. Thank God the ex-boss of Plant Life is a VERY different animal to Mr. Bulmer. In fact I'll take this opportunity to say that John Garrad is one of the nicest guys I've ever met through my music and he has a great philosophy about the music I recorded i.e. 'Let's get it out there - for people to listen to and for you to get a fair deal while you're actually still alive'. He's moved heaven and earth to get my albums back into my own control and out to the public over the last few months - God bless him I say.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 01:18 AM

Rosie.

Good news indeed, will seek out a copy as soon as I can..
Regards
Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 02:17 AM

Well done for speaking up, Rosie. There have been a number of Bulmer "excusists" on this forum. If they are not actually Bulmer henchmen they clearly would not know the extent of this mans' disgusting attitude and mean-mindedness to folk musicians. God knows how he must treat others he deals with although from what I hear he is devoid of any moral component whatseover. If what you feel is the truth Rosie, stick with it and say it - what you say now could just prevent another musicician falling as a casualty to this man and his legal honcho Sharpley.

To any would be person contemplating a deal with the two of them, seek out their former partners, seek out others who have "dealt" - and be very warned - it always ends in tears.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Lien
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 02:38 AM

The following recently appeared in WIKIPEDIA - seems our favorite crook is becoming the suff of legend!

Celtic Music
(record label)
Celtic Music was founded by Dave Bulmer in 1982. He bought up the back catalogue of several small companies: Leader, Trailer, Rubber Records, Black Crow, and Highway, and started re-issuing some of them. As the name suggests, many of the artists were Celtic, but some were English singer-songwriters. Among the most successful new artists on the label were Scottish folk-rockers "Wolfstone" and Newcastle's "The Whisky Priests".

From the mid-nineties a tide of opinion made Dave Bulmer into a hate figure. He was attacked in the pages of The Observer, Folk Roots and on the bulletin board of the Musician's Union. The main accusation was that he would not release albums by Nic Jones, who had been a victim of a severe car crash, nor would he sell the rights back to Nic Jones. Other recording artists also appeared to be receiving short shrift. Bulmer received unexpected support from Dick Gaughan. Other accusations include issuing CDs which were the re-recordable kind instead of the standard permanent ones. It is not clear if this makes any substantial difference. The final audit of the company was in 1999. The company secretary made serious criticisms of the company finances. There were suggestions that Bulmer had himself taken money from the funds. The company appears to have gone bankrupt shortly afterwords.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article "Celtic Music (record label)".


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 03:54 AM

I always follow the DB / CM threads as they provide great (if somewhay voyeuristic) entertainment. I'm not a DB apologist, nor am I hater. I speak only for myself as a music lover.
Could I ask a couple of straightfoward questions, hopefully without getting flamed.

1. It would seem that DB has a long track record (no pun intended) of unfair treatment of artists. If this is the case, why have so many artists signed with him over the years? I dont want to sound churlish, but if I had heard and believed so many bad things about him and his companies, I wouldnt go near his operation.

2. If he truly is such a villain, why do so many label still continue to use him for distribution? (All my Radio Ballads CD re-issues on Topic label carried CM distibution stickers / cards)

3. Finally, if his reputation for dishonesty is well founded, why did so many labels sell their back cataloge to him? These include Trailer / Leader, Black Crow / Rubber, Sweet Folk and Country / Greenwich Village, Mulligan, Broadside, Folk Heritage, Making Waves and probably a lot more too.

As far as I know, DB has never been prosecuted which means either
A. Hes too smart a crook to get caught
or
B. He operates just on the right side of the law.

I suspect the latter to be true, in which case why should he be ANY different from those who run mainstream (ie non folk) labels. Musica history over the last 50 years should have taught us that the "men in suits" will always look after number one. The term music business contains 2 words. We are at risk of overlooking the latter of these as we so love the former.

I have no inside knowlege of how these things work and only base my thoughts on what I read here and in the press, coupled with what musician friends tell me. I hope the above comments dont upset or anger anyone, but I'd be delighted to hear your thoughts....standing back waiting for the assault

Cheers
LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Lien
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 06:08 AM

I have learned much about Mr Bulmer and his curious practices that have damaged nearly everyone who has had the misplaced trust to deal with him. To give some insight I can respond to your questions in the oredr you put them: 1 Generally speaking musicians are trusting souls and, sadly rather foolishly, not over-concerned with the business side of things. Remember that Bulmer projects himself as being a musician - which he is - and therefore could never be a bastard to a fellow "artiste". Whilst drivelling on about "Im a musician myself" he has the effect of luring the prospective signing into a very, very false sense of wellbeing. (viz Brian from Flute)   2 as far as Distribution is concerned there are very few mainstream distributors who will handle folk music. CM, in many senses, is the only ballgame in town.   3    I think you will find that most of the back catalogue was acquired (sometimes in very iffy circumstances indeed) from Receivers of the former labels you mention. This is certainly true in the case of Leader/Trailer and Making Waves at least.   4 He escapes any tangible legal action through the efforts of his partner, the bent former lawyer Neil Sharpley. There are many, many people who can attest to the bludgeoning and spiteful treatment dealt by that person. Even former partners have suffered at his hands. It is he who threatens would be claimants with the big legal stick.   I am aware of at leat two parties co-operating at this time to present a cogent complaint to the Police about Mr Bulmer's business practices. It really can only be a matter of time before he himself is doing time. 5 And of course Bulmer is not a "suit".   I would doubt if he even owns a suit. His dress sense makes the notion of "dressing down" look like "dressing up". Perfect for assisting the snaring of musicians to deals that they will almost all live to deeply regret at some future date.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: shepherdlass
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 06:20 AM

Further to the distribution point - Black Crow was owned by a long-term friend of Bulmer's and the two companies were effectively in bed with each other for a long time.

Like Lien, I also gather the distribution rights of a lot of the other companies were acquired from receivers.

Now, any company seeking to emulate CM will find things a lot tougher because there are nice, intermediary-free websites where folkies can buy their CDs direct from the artists.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 11:09 AM

Thanks for the input to my thoughts. glad I didnt get my head bitten off.
Regarding distribution though, I know Topic use Proper, why do they also use CM? Also why dont all the other companies use Proper / ADA or whoever. I cant believe they are being ripped off too

Also (playing devils advocate here), If DB bought all these labels and back catalogues from liquidators, etc..it would suggest they were not making a profit and had gone bust. Does it equate then there there is less commercial demand for some of these back catalogue recording than we would like to think. This would explain DBs reluctance to re-issue many of them

Only a thought

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 11:42 AM

For all that is said about the Nic Jones non accessible albums, Id like to point out that on "Penguin Eggs" there is no credit or recognition for "Wee Pot Stove" or "Trawlermen" written by the late Harry Robertson who was alive at the time of "Penguin Eggs" release. This has been a sore point for his family. Harry Robertson did release an album called "Whale Chasing Men" containing these songs and more that he had written from his experiences as a whalemen down in Leith Harbor South Georgia in the 1940s and 50s. It has been my experience that anyone who wishes to record Harry's music need only get in touch with the family in Australia for permission. This was the case anyway in the late 1990s.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 19 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM

Lancashire Lad, if CM didn't expect to make money from the acquired recordings this would explain not reissuing them but not why apparently they refused to sell them back to the artists. Confusing!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 01:40 AM

Susanne, Maybe I misunderstood things a little, but are there not artists complaining that CM / DB wont "give" them the rights to their albums back? I thought the argument was something along these lines

CM. We cant afford to issue all the back catalogue at one time, so are slowly working our way through the more commercially viable ones

ARTIST. Well can I have the tapes back for mine?

CM No, you can BUY them back.

As I said in a previous post, I have no inside knowledge of these things, but thought this was one (of many!) things that has p*ssed off some musicians

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 04:31 AM

LL, you keep telling us you know nothing of the situation, then telling us what the situation is: "I have no inside knowledge, but artists are complaining that he won't 'Give' rights back."

You should read the very first post of the very first thread about this, which appears above as a link ("The 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga (161) (closed).") You will find that, in fact, he has declined to give, sell, or even discuss selling the rights back to individual artists. Honestly, it is tedious to have people admitting they know nothing and yet presuming to explain things to (or to ask questions a la Socrates of) people who know more.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 07:07 AM

Hi Nerd
Sorry for not being all knowledgable! But please correct me if I'm wrong on the following.
Michael Chapman / Voiceprint bought the rights back from DB for the Almost Alone album re-issued late last year
The Houghton Weavers have also bought back some or all of their back catalogue.

The above info came from the artists, so it seems that some people at least can negotiate with him.

Sorry for admitting I know nothing of the internal situation regarding DB/ CM. How should I correct this....ask him for a job?
Also I dont "presume to explain things", I was just asking questions to try and get a balanced picture.
Maybe I should just accept that something is wrong because some else says so! I think not.

Sorry if I offended you with my "tedious" questions
LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 12:17 PM

Lancashire Lad,

it is becoming increasingly obvious that you are lying. At the outset you said you were not an apologist for DB, yet your every question is along the lines of "but isn't he really in the right?" and "isn't it really the case that the artists are unreasonable?" And "correct me if I'm wrong, but if Bulmer were really unfair, wouldn't he have gone out of business long since?" Yes, we know that no unfair businessperson has ever managed to remain in business. Good thinking, LL!

Then you protest that you know no inside information at all, yet the moment someone points you to READ THE THREAD(S) ON THIS TOPIC you begin to reveal facts that, if true, are obviously inside information about artists and their dealings with DB.

So either

1) the information is false and you are lying about it.

or

2) it is true and you are lying about knowing no inside information.

I incline to believe the latter (you know more than you claim, and are closer to the subject than you admit). Either way, it becomes clear that you ARE in fact an apologist for Dave Bulmer with some knowledge of his business affairs.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 01:10 PM

Oh dear me

I only know of the two re-issues because
A. I bought the CD from Michael Chapman at a gig
B. I asked one of the Houghton Weavers if they had plans to re-issue Howfen Wakes

All I did was point that that he must allow some artists access to their back catalogues (In answer to Susan saying he wont sell rights back).

I've read the threads and agree with many of the points made. The lack of accounting is a terrible thing and were I an artist, I wouldnt trust such a deal as far as I could throw it.

All I suggested was that MAYBE, he wasnt as black as painted and raised three points to see what the general concensus of opinion was. I also hoped not to get attacked and certainly not called a liar (which I am not).

It strikes me, that without the chance to speak openly and objectively there is little hope of an open discourse.

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Dita
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 01:24 PM

"Bulmer received unexpected support from Dick Gaughan"

From Guest Lian's post above.

It is true that Dick recorded for, and worked with Dave Bulmer during the 80's and 90's.

Dick even worked on remastering some of the Leader /Trailer albums. He told me that some master tapes, including I think, his own, Nic Jones, and Tony Rose were in such poor condition, due to the way they had been stored, that remastering a mint record was a better choice.

Dick's convincing of Clan Alba to go with CM to release their double album, and the way it was marketed, (sold via CM outlets only, not available to high street stores), resulted in the breakup of the band and the fracturing of Dick and Brian McNeill's friendship, which was only resolved a couple of years ago.

It also resulted in Dick no longer associating with Bulmer.

You will notice that Dick now records for a different label.

John


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 01:27 PM

I believe Dick Gaughan was also unhappy about the way DB or CM were releasing the Trailer / Leader back catalogue too

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 03:19 PM

LL, I apologize if I have jumped the gun. But really, no one ever said that DB is universally unfair to all artists, so your ability to find two people who were able to get rights from him is not evidence that he is "not as black as he is painted."

To use the most absurdly extreme comparison, Hitler had friends who thought he was a good fellow. (And before people jump on me, I am NOT saying DB is comparable to Hitler, except in the quality of having friends and associates who work well with him). To use less extreme examples, the same is true of John Gotti, Al Capone, and many famous criminals. This makes them no less criminal in their dealings with others.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 05:22 PM

LL,

by the way, I thought perhaps I did not understand what an apologist was. So I went to the OED, where it says that an apologist is one who apologizes, and "apologize" primarily means:

1. intr. To speak in, or serve as, justification, explanation, or palliation of a fault, failure, or anything that may cause dissatisfaction; to offer defensive arguments; to make excuses.

In other words, in offering defensive arguments for Mr. Bulmer, or in your words "suggest[ing] that MAYBE, he wasnt as black as painted" by raising three points in his defense, you are PRECISELY an apologist for him. I won't say you were lying when you claimed not to be, but you were at the very least mistaken.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 04:06 AM

Hi Nerd
Apology accepted.
Having read the above defination from the OED, maybe I am an apologist! However please, I repeat PLEASE, do NOT misconstrue that to mean I defend his business dealings. I DONT!!!!. My only reason to enter this thread was to ask the original questions. It still strikes me as perculiar that he can be a hate figure for many, whilst on the other hand, substantial movers and shakers at the business end of the folk scene, seem happy to deal with him. Perhaps its just a finance thing. Maybe we need someone from Topic Records (or similar labels) to join the conversation and explain their side of things.

Another thing has sprung to mind regarding DB / CM. We all know that he owns rights to many labels and therefore controls what gets re-released by an artist. Does he also own the publishing for this material? I know most trad material is in the public domain and not covered by copyright, but what about self written songs or trad / arr songs?

Cheers
LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 10:43 AM

Oh dear, publishing!!!!! Our great pal has "acquired" many "trad" songs over the years. Strangely he even claims "In The House Of The Rising Sun"!!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 11:25 AM

As I understand it, whenever you publish something, you acquire copyright to THAT PUBLICATION. Doesn't mean you necessarily have copyright of the song or tune itself.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM

Well, people who have performed trad material on Bulmer-owned albums have released some of the same songs on other albums without getting sued. So I don't think he is claiming publishing rights on even, say, a certain song as performed by Nic Jones. Or perhaps he claims them but is unprepared to defend the claim in court...


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 12:11 PM

I asked only because someone who is keen to buy up record labels but then not re-issue them night still make a substantial amount of money for publishing revenue via airplay.

If this is the case (and I stress IF), it could explain his reluctance to re-issue some popular titles. He can avoid manufacturing costs for hundreds of albums, but potentially get a substantial income from publishing for doing nothing aside from buying the publishing rights (or at least a share)

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 02:23 PM

Normally publishing rights would not be granted to the record label. The music publisher would retainthe publishing rights and the record label would get a mechanical licence.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Music Mercenary
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 04:16 PM

Hello All,

Just a quick enquiry. I'm not inclined to reveal my name, but I work for a Universal affiliated record label based in the UK. I've recently been asked by HMV & Virgin to discover who holds the rights (and the masters) to the Nic Jones catalogue, and then to license them for general sale.
I've spoken to Nic's wife Julia, (very lovely lady), but she didn't feel comfortable revealing any names.
As it happens, I've clued myself up anyway.
However - before I begin the seemingly painstaking process of negotiation with Mr. Bulmer I was wondering if anyone here could provide me with a little bit of a breakdown regarding what licenses Mr.Bulmer actually owns. Also a coherent and unbiased brief of how the general story stands at present.
By the way - I have every intention of ensuring that Nic receives his just royalties for any re-issues.
Regards,
Music Mercenary, London


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 04:58 PM

Dear Mr Mercenary (Nice Handle!)
I'm assuming that you've got a printout of all the previous threads on this Topic (No Pun intended!).
For more Horses Mouth info, you could worse than E Mailing Pete Coe and/or Dick Gaughan (Both have websites easily accessible through Google).
It would be wonderful if you could achieve what most people on this, and many other, notice boards have failed to do over what is rapidly approaching 25 years. Namely, Justice for a decent bloke who had a bad accident.
You've spoken to Julia apparently. Yes a very nice lady with the patience of Job!

Good Luck with your quest. I'm pretty easy to contact. Become a member of the Cat and you can send a private message in confidence.

All the best

Ralph Jordan (Producer "Unearthed")


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 03:32 AM

The threads here say that DB owns The Trailer / Leader / Highway labels, therefore owning (outright?) the earlier albums from Nics solo career and also the Bandoggs album. He has re-issued a couple already as I'm sure you know. Ive seen the Self titled album and Ballads and Songs in one of the HMV (or similar) megastores. Dont know if he's re-issued the others though

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: pavane
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 04:59 AM

Are they CD or CD-R?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: red max
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:23 AM

CDR


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:21 AM

Apparantly they are CDR. How do you tell the difference though? I played mine against my (somewhat worn) vinyl copy of ballads and songs and it sounded fine.
Mind you, I would have liked to have seen some sleeve notes and maybe a bonus track or two. Remarkably short compared to todays re-issue standard.

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: pavane
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:36 AM

It would sound the same, just not so robust and may not last as long.
I don't suppose there are any bonus tracks available, in the circumstances.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:40 AM

No...somehow I cant imagine Nic offering him some unreleased gems!

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: treewind
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 08:22 AM

The difference with CDRs is that you can burn and sell as many as you like and the MCPS don't know how many you've done, so there's no proof of what royalty payments you owe the artist.

In contrast, a CD pressing run (unless it's a short-run test pressing) has to be registered with the MCPS.

Nothing to do with audio quality or CDR longevity, though that might be an issue too.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 08:46 AM

Yes I knew that, but wanted to know how the "man on the street" could tell if had bought a regular CD or CDR.

Additionally, dont you have to be registered with MCPS first? Is MCPS membership compulsary?

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: red max
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 10:10 AM

You could probably tell by the fact that CDRs sometimes won't play properly on some CD players. Also their "underbelly" is coloured (usually blue or green) and is easily damaged

I can understand why CDR is a more viable format for self-produced albums, but for artists under Bill Leader's wing it does seem a rather shoddy option


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: pavane
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 10:41 AM

You don't have to be a Member of MCPS. Whenever you make a recording (for sale), you have to submit a track list (of copyright songs) to the MCPS, and the proposed quantity, and MCPS will determine the royalties due. Once you have paid, you are entitled to add the characters MCPS to your sleeve notes. (or directly printed on CD?)

If they are indeed on there, but they are CDR's, perhaps the MCPS should be informed. If you told the MCPS that you have made 100, but they find you have actually distributed say 10,000, they could take action as necessary to recover the extra royalties. (But they go to the copyright holder, not the artist)


(PS Artists FORMERLY under BL's wing)


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Dita
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM

Ralphie,

Just a thought, but as Celtic Music now trade as Music by Mail, and it's under that name Nic's, among others, CDRs are being issued, should the thread title not reflect this.

Celtic Music/Music by Mail Dave Bulmer

I'm sure the info is in the threads, but as we can see, not everyone reads the whole thing.

S**t by any other name is still s**t.

I'd hate to think that people who avoid CM products would buy MbM without realising it's the same guy,

Cheers, John.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 03:28 PM

LL, the "man on the street" could not tell they were CDRs at first, but the CDR is less durable and more vulnerable to light and heat, etc. Therefore, the product will probably not last as long. I've had CDRs stop playing after three or four years. It's yet another way you might get screwed if you buy these products.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 04:04 PM

John/Dita.
Yes I take your point, but hey....It's traditional now!!!
Seriously though, a LOT of people are reading all of this, to keep up to date on the situation. Very few contribute, but, changing the name of the thread might mean that interested readers might miss out on some important info.
Personally, I can't wait for the day when the whole sorry mess has been consigned to the Litter tray of the Cat.
Until then. I think we should keep the title as is.

Good thought though. Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:33 PM

CDRs usually have a distinct appearance on the burnt side where the data is stored. I've got some re-issue CDRs originally from vinyl. An LP stored a max of about 45 mins. A CD will hold upwards of 65-80. The data is stored from the centre going out and where the unburnt bit starts (ie where the data ends) is very obvious. If a quality CDR is looked after, ie put in its case and stored at normal temperatures and humidity, it should last years.

Having read this thread, and the others, I hope the CD I bought (No Roses by Shirley Collins and The Albion Country Band) is genuine and that the artists got their royalties. It was ordered through HMV a few years back.

If GuestMM does the trick, there will be smiles a plenty and hopefully would lead to the other affected artists and their followers getting what they deserve.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 01:33 AM

Peter, the key terms are "quality," "should" and "years." No one knows what quality the original medium was when they buy a CDR by mail, so the product may not be a quality CDR. Also, no one knows how long CDRs will last on average because they haven't existed long enough. They "should" last forever, but they won't. So they will last years, but how many? As I have stated, I have had CDRs become unreadable by CD players within three years. So is average shelf-life going to be ten? If so, people should know this before they buy.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 02:57 AM

Eek
Now I'm a little worried. I have a lot of CDRs in my collection (folk club recordings, etc). Some of these are already quite a few years old. Maybe I should consider backing them up somewhere else as they are irreplacable...Guess this problem could happen to a lot of us.

I'm still a little confused regarding appearance of CDRs though. The Nic Jones CDR doesnt have the blue / geen appearance of other CDRs (nor does it have a stick on label). Flipping the disc over to the playing side, it looks no different from any of the major label CDs in my collection (Van Morrison, Dylan, etc), being silver in appearance and (if tilted to catch the light) showing the area the contains the music and the part that is blank / unburnt.

Taking this back to the thread subject. Is everything that DB releases a CDR? If so, that's potentially a heck of a lot of albums to avoid or buy and then replace.

Cheers
LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 03:45 AM

LL,

yes, any CDR should be backed up if possible.

CDRs do not necessarily have a stick-on label; nowadays there are printers that can print right to the surface of a CDR making the paper label unnecessary.

No, not everything DB releases is a CDR. It's mostly the Leader/Trailer reissues he's put out that are CDRs.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 06:23 AM

You are absolutely right Nerd, but there is also an issue with "standard" CDs. There is speculation that some of the early ones, especially, can be affected by the same conditions that would degrade a CDR.

LL, the obvious way to back them up is as MP3 files, otherwise you could end up with a storage nightmare. However, you don't get owt for nowt, all those MB/GBs saved must mean some loss of quality, though damned if I can hear it.

Anyway, lets hope GuestMM is successful, although if he is, no doubt Mr B will still be smiling.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:20 AM

MP3s. Now theres an idea that could make everyone happy. If DB put all the albums he owns onto mp3, released them via a legal download site, we could all get the music we want, he could get the money, and the downloads could be monitored so there would be no problem with accounting.

The more I think about this, the better it sounds.
Any thoughts?
Anyone want to suggest it to him?

LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 02:00 AM

Great idea MP3 via a "legal" download site. Problem is that there would be figures that could be audited by the artistes involved - and of course there is your problem. Mr B keeps such potentially "expensive" information strictly under wraps. Jesus, it might even mean paying the artistes their due royalties!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: red max
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 05:20 AM

I occasionally pass Mr B's house, and sometimes wonder if I should post a dog turd through the letter box


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 07:00 AM

What good would that do?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 01:06 PM

The street would be that little bit cleaner, heh!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 05:27 PM

Thanks for the thought Red Max. But can we keep this civil plesae.
Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 05:28 PM


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 05:28 PM

I meant Please....Sorry!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: red max
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 04:22 AM

Fair enough. By the way, I need to speak to Pete Coe about another matter, is it worth asking him about any progess with his old albums?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Music Mercenary
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 06:39 PM

Just to let whoever's interested know. I've got the MCPS-PRS Alliance investigating Mr. Bulmer.
I'll let you know what they dig up.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 09:51 AM

GUEST MM
I think a lot of people can't wait to see the results of your investigations.
Good Luck.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 01:27 PM

Guest MM
Why don't you contact Celtic Music directly.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:17 AM

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Celtic Music is a record label which started life in late 1978 by releasing a record of "IONA" a band formed by Dave Bulmer, George Ormiston, Gordon Tyrall and Tony Wilson. The label became an extension of C M (Distribution) which had been in existence since 1974. Celtic Music began by issuing a series of four volumes of Irish tunebooks called "Music from Ireland" in 1974. The tunes in these books were initially collected from Irish musicians in Leeds from 1970 onwards by Dave Bulmer and Neil Sharpley and then later from musicians at Fleadh's in Ireland and the UK. These books became highly sought after, as they are today, and became much used throughout the Irish Music world as a teaching aid. Celtic Music began life in the record business selling the Leader /Trailer label alongside the tune books. The distribution of records was very much on a part time basis until the middle 1980's. The Celtic label released a few records throughout the early eighties, but really concentrated on distributing the folk labels which were available for independent distribution in the UK and Eire, in those days Rubber / Gael Linn / Tara / Claddagh /WEA Eire /Topic /Temple etc etc to specialist shops like Cecil Sharpe House, Colletts, and Dobells in London. In those days it was very difficult to find folk records in record shops. The distribution continued throughout the early eighties and, when IONA stopped touring began to widen its scope. In 1983 a visit to Midem (the world trade fair for the record industry) opened up new possibilities. That year CM Distribution was the only folk music distribution company from the UK represented at the event and achieved overseas sales for many of the UK folk labels it distriburted. In 1985 the company released one of the very first compact discs of folk music to be issued in the UK featuring the Albion Band. In 1986 the Distribution company bought its main rival, Making Waves, when it went into liquidation. At about the same time Celtic Music was then offered the chance to buy a number of record labels including Dambuster and Black Crow by their owners. During the late eighties the business grew and several new ventures were entered into with new partners. A studio was established in the late eighties, in Elsdon, Northumberland, with Geoff Heslop, Dick Gaughan, Neil Sharpley, and Dave Bulmer as partners. Many new albums were recorded there. Some of the artists were Celtic based, some were English traditional singers and some were contemporary songwriters. Recording at the studio cumulated in highly acclaimed Clan Alba album. Unfortunately around the mid nineties Geoff Heslop resigned from the partnership. The studio, without a manager, ceased recording any new material.

Among the most successful artists on the labels were The Kipper Family ,then Kathryn Tickell and Dick Gaughan both of the latter achieving "Q Albums of the Year" in the late eighties on the DAMBUSTER /BLACK CROW and CELTIC MUSIC labels respectively.

The distribution company faced a crisis in the late eighties as the vinyl pressing plant, which pressed most of the UK's folk labels, was under threat of closure. If that plant had closed then there was every possibility that many folk labels would end up on the rocks and the distribution of folk records would end up the same way. Finance was raised and C M Distribution bought into the pressing plant. The plant ran successfully, pressing about 3 million records a year, until early into the millennium when financial circumstances forced it to close.

In the early nineties there were many changes in the record industry with the new Compact Disc format taking over. Many record labels that had not pressed the format early on were left with high overheads and virtually no distribution as the major record chains in the country threw out the vinyl format almost overnight for the more profitable compact disc.

This turmoil continued for a number of years and Celtic Music was approached to purchase several other labels including the Leader/Trailer label. This label had been the subject of much discussion throughout the seventies, the eighties and the nineties. The label was sold several times. Firstly in 1982, by its original owner to another folk label, "Highway". Then that company sold the label to another company, "Sureshy" around 1986/7. "Sureshy" held the rights to the label until 1993 when it was purchased by Celtic Music. Celtic Music immediately released several titles on compact disc and has continued to do so as finance allows. Unfortunately several master tapes on the label were either damaged or missing when the catalogue was purchased. Fortunately the technology is now here to help restore these recordings to a satisfactory standard and many more releases are scheduled for the coming years. Nic Jones is one of the most discussed artists on the label but unfortunately his re-releases were held up for a number of years due to disputes over his publishing rights. This has led to much Internet discussion most of which is total speculation on behalf of those taking part.

In the late nineties the custom services division of the vinyl pressing plant experienced a demand for short run compact discs and an on demand system was developed for promotional runs of Recordable Compact Discs. As this technology became more and more reliable it became apparent that it was by far a better and a more reliable method of production for small runs of compact discs. It meant product on demand without the problems associated with pressing. It is the ideal method for a record label with a large back catalogue like Celtic Music. In fact some years after Celtic Music started using CD on demand for some of its back catalogue production a large classical record company, Nimbus, had major articles published in the music trade press stating that CD on demand had given the label a new lease of life, and without the technology most of their catalogue would never have been produced for sale again.

Distribution methods are changing worldwide and the retail sector is suffering from falling sales, which are mainly migrating to the Internet. The recent demise in the UK of Andy's, Our Price,Tower and Coda record chains attest to this. The distribution company continues to service specialist retail outlets and some of the major chains that are interested in selling specialist music. Future sales of specialist back catalogue in general will, in all probability, end up being sold directly from the label or their distributor. With the retail sector only handling major new releases. What goes around, comes around. Its' just like the seventies all over again.

The label is not bankrupt as previous entries on this page suggest.

In fact recordings from Celtic Music's back catalogue will be issued regularly through its various distribution channels for the forseeable future. If anyone wishes to receive any further information please contact the label by email:

celticmusic@northworks.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 09:38 PM

Hasn't things gone quiet?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,(a different one)
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 10:02 PM

So now we finally have a statement, of sorts, from Dave Bulmer. Whether it's entirely truthful is moot (and it certainly fails to address some very important questions, most particularly whether or not royalties are being paid), but you'll probably have to wait a little while for a response from those of our correspondents who are directly involved. Dick Gaughan doesn't post here, which is a pity as his name is being taken in vain.

Be patient. The people who had their recordings bought from over their heads have had to be.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Guest: Java Jive
Date: 16 May 05 - 02:06 PM

Just for factual info ...

MbM are supplying Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/size=20&store-name=music&index=music&field-label=Music%20By%20Mail/026-658

I bought Barbara Dickson's "From The Beggar's Mantle" by this means. The CD, not CD-R, is by Phonograph, "Licensed from the Decca Music Group Ltd, a division of Universal Music Group". It's distributed by MbM.

I don't see any MCPS/PRS info or logos on the CD or packaging, but I think p*ssing of Decca by not paying due royalties would probably be more than it's worth. Besides, if I've understood the conversation above correctly, they're paid by the presser, not the distributor, who would presumably be Phonograph (although I suppose they could be a related offshoot)? Also, as posted in previous incarnations of this thread, Barbara Dickson has (last time I looked) information on her site about obtaining this album from MbM. So I presume in this case at least the artist is getting due entitlement.

However, I think I will refrain from buying other albums in the link until the royalty situation is clarified.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Robin
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 06:14 AM

Has anyone (a) bought any of the Nic Jones CDs (b)discovered whether he will be paid royalties from them?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Robin
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 06:24 AM

(I mean the reissued 'Ballads and Songs'/'Nic Jones' CDs, obviously)


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Java Jive
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 11:38 PM

Sadly, I have been reliably informed that Nic is not receiving/will not receive royalties from purchases of the above CDs/CD-Rs.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 01:45 PM

Sorry but it would seem that your source is not as reliable as it may appear.

Nic Jones was actually sent royalties but his wife refused to cash the cheques.

There must be more to this than the rumour and heresay in these postings.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: treewind
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:33 PM

There probably is, but those who know aren't posting details, surely for one good reason or another.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:40 PM

Hi GUEST,guest.
Absolutely true.
You work out why.
R.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:43 PM

Anahata
Just missed you in the post!
As I missed you at Broadstairs!!
Barb enjoyed it though.
See you all soon.
Kind Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 04:49 PM

Cashing a cheque for a disputed amount is tantamount to accepting that the payment is correct isnt it ? Could one of the legal experts confirm ??


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 07:10 PM

Depends on the circumstances Leadfingers but it would certainly put you at a disadvantage in any future legal action.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, Isle Of Man
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 04:26 AM

Why should Mrs Jones accept cheques the accuracy of which would almost certainly be "doubtful" at best? Why would she shake hands with the devil that has caused her and her family so much distress over so many years? Assuming that she has the cheques still in her possession and has not returned them, she would be best advised to go for a full audit of CM(and its associated companies) books. This would be on the understanding that no respectable and above board record company would refuse such a request. After all audit rights are normally present in record contracts and now there are plenty of examples in case law where artists without such a clause in their contract have been awarded them retrospectively. Just remember that false accounting is a criminal matter. Go for it.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Java Jive
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 04:42 PM

My source is *utterly* reliable.

Being myself currently in dispute with an internet supplier, I undertand that to use the goods under dispute is tantamount to accepting them - I presume it's a similar situation with the royalty cheques, and that is why they have not been cashed.

So, as I reliably said, Nic will not be receiving royalties ...

"""
Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 10 Aug 05 - 01:45 PM

Sorry but it would seem that your source is not as reliable as it may appear.

Nic Jones was actually sent royalties but his wife refused to cash the cheques.
"""


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 07:34 PM

Arn't there other more important issues in the UK or the world than this tired old kicked to death subject to concern "right minded" people? Like FAMINE,CHILD ABUSE, NATURAL DISASTERS AND TERRORISM, or have certain people nothing else to do??


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Effsee
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 09:26 PM

So why have you raised it again after 2 months of silence?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,J T.
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 10:25 PM

Tis tired old kicked to death subject will continue to be raised simply because the odious Bulmer and Sharpley are directly involved to this day in dubious practices involving respected members of the folk music community. Sharply was struck off on hard facts, and no royalty payment from him can be trusted as accurate, cashing cheques from him is tantamount to accepting that these payments are correct, and that any previous agreement is being honoured I doubt that this is the case here. This matter will not go away until these individuals begin to pactice buisness in an open and trasparent way. As for asking for an audit, this is an expensive buisness, and Sharpley is clever enough to have covered his tracks, the Police in Lincolnshire are well aware of his practices, and are willing to help nail him if any agrieved party can provide clear evidence of fraud on his part, he only escaped the last time on a tecnicality.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Mike S. in Bristol
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 07:25 AM

Surfed in on this thread after a couple of years, never expecting to see it is still going strong!   Its really sad that this man Bulmer and his rather "iffy" business practices have never been sorted out by those he and his partner have screwed over so many years. He must be surrounded by even more "iffy" solicitors, accountants etc to enable him to escape detailed investigation. I note that audit has been suggested and I should have thought that this could be quite easily arranged (and cheaply/free if the Police are involved. Fraud and false accounting would seem to be his MO and from what I have read there are plenty of people in the folk world, and in other areas tainted by Bulmer, who could attest. As I understand it there are many of you who have actually had a crime committed against you by this bloke and his company. Crime is surely the remit of the Police? What happened to the "Sick Note" guy? When I last read the threads he was actively engaged in pursuing Mr Bulmer and his partner. Still, I guess I may come on again in another two years and find the same thing still ongoing! Get it together guys. Go for the jugular.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Jenny.
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 06:53 PM

The Sick Note guy has had many offers of help outside the law, to
date he has said no, Pat and his friends will be in Horrogate over
Christmas to speak with Bulmer and Co.
In answer to an earlier question
NEIL SHARPLEY. The Sycamores. Westgate, Louth, Lincolnshire.LN119YE.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Graham in Leeds.
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 07:37 PM


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Graham in Leeds.
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 07:56 PM

Dave Bulmer can only opperate because the so called folk scene in England are happy to deal with him. you have embraced this viper to your bosum and yet question the desmise of English folk music, we all live in close proximityty to this shit, Bulmer is a really fraudter, why can you in England not see this and do something aboutit.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 03:51 AM

In February Music Mercenary wrote that he had the MCPS Alliance investigating Bulmer. Any news yet?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Ralph
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 03:57 AM

Glad to see that this subject has not been forgotten.
And, It never will be.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:20 PM

Possibly slightly off topic, but it would appear that DB has licensed from Trailer and Leader tracks to Honest Johns Records who distribute through EMI in UK.
Seems that the archives might be opening!
Cheers
LL


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 04:44 PM

Yes....Mmmmm
Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Diddly Eye Di Di
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 09:39 AM

....... evn in Ireland he's a leg-end in his own mind!   


Date:         Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:04:45 -0000
Reply-To:    Geoff Wallis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       Irish Traditional Music List <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Geoff Wallis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Dave Bulmer
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Absolutely and concisely well said, William!

It's down to dear Mr Bulmer that you can't buy a copy of Paul Brady's
"Welcome Here Kind Stranger" in Ireland and struggle to find several other releases anywhere in the world which were the subjects of Bulmer's dealings with the Mulligan label. His label, Celtic Music, is a byword for exploitation, fraud and deceit.

All the best,

Geoff



----- Original Message -----
From: "William Kennedy" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Dave Bulmer


> for you who would like to know about Dave Bulmer, and the many musicians who despise him, go to Mudcat Cafe and type Bulmer in the forum window and what pops up is "Celtic Music/ Dave Bulmer Saga" four long threads worth. the short version is the hundreds of allegations of cheating musicians out of royalties, refusing to release music he has purchased the rights to and many other cases of dirty dealings. He is in court these days to answer some charges. you can read the details for yourself, as I do not have any
> personal experience with the fellow. but in relation to your question it doesn't seem that any of the musicians on those 'four lovely little collections' or the the many others that he released, ever got a penny share of any sales.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 05:07 PM

Well I'd just like to add my two pennorth, I remember Dave Bulmer from back in the 1970's when he used to play in a band called 'Burned Peat' consisting of Bernard Davey, Tom McConnville, Tony Wilson and sometimes various others... and they, and he were bloody good! he was an Accordion player of exceptional skill. I must say he always struck me as being a miserable scruffy looking bastard, and I can well imagine him being a 'dodgy businessman'but hey, the world is full of them and if you are stupid enough to get sucked in by one don't expect them to be anything other than what they are! i.e. INTERESTED IN ONLY THEMSELVES AND WHAT YOU CAN DO TO LINE THEIR POCKETS!!!
It's a tough life so don't expect them to give back the birthright you so willingly sold away!
...There now shoot me down!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: treewind
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 05:38 PM

Bruce, read the story.
Most of the people who have been shafted by Bulmer NEVER DID ANY BUSINESS WITH HIM.

In a nutshell, they recorded for Leader; Leader went bust; DB picked up the bankrupt business for a song; DB perversely didn't bother trading in the material for which he owned the rights.

All sensible contracts with record labels now have a clause explicitly assigning all rights to the artist in the event of the label going bust.
Before then the possibility of such a bizarre scenario hadn't been imagined.

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 10:18 PM

Just to point out that the Honest John sampler release largely consists of tracks from other CDs that Celtic Music has already released. And it's a pricey sampler, at that.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: sinpelo
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 11:07 AM

There may be another way to approach this problem: Although artists cannot challenge his legal ownership of R&D rights, they could possibly sue him for loss of earnings. If Bulmer controls the R&D rights of work on which artists depend to earn a living, then perhaps he can be legally obliged to enable them to do so. If Bulger is preventing people from legitimately earning a living from their own work, he has a legal case to answer. I think it's worth pursuing.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 11:11 AM

Yawn.

Nothing new under the sun, eh lads?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: sinpelo
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:59 PM

I'm trying to understand how this works. As far as I can gather, DB has bought reproduction and distribution rights from labels that had gone into receivership. Does that require the artists to sign anything over to him? I would have thought that, if these were rights that were held by the labels rather than the individual artists, they would have no say in the matter. Or am I wrong? Feel free to call me a thicko if it helps.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 03:36 AM

The point is that Bulmer seems to represent all that is repugnant in the music business. He is a hang over from a time when artists were regularly screwed by record companies. The sheer number of complaints about his business ethics (or lack of them) is well documented. He is blackballed by the MU as a person/company NOT to do business with and has been for more than a decade. He operates a policy of single-minded unpleasantness to anyone that crosses him - and anyone that does will inevitably receive a threatening letter from his partner, Mr Sharpley. If you have read these threads you will know about Mr Sharpley. Is this the way that folk music and musicians derserve to be treated? In the 21st Century it would be nice to know that people and enterprises like those of Mr Bulmer act with decency and professionalism to artists - to ensure that they get royalties (for instance). As ever with this man nothing is that simple. But one day brother, KARMA, for sure.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: sinpelo
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 06:48 AM

"Arn't there other more important issues in the UK or the world than this tired old kicked to death subject to concern "right minded" people? Like FAMINE,CHILD ABUSE, NATURAL DISASTERS AND TERRORISM, or have certain people nothing else to do?? "

Yes. These are discussed in forums under headings such as "FAMINE, CHILD ABUSE, NATURAL DISASTERS AND TERRORISM". However, I think you'll find most of the posts under the heading "Celtic Music, Dave Bulmer" tend to be about Celtic Music and Dave Bulmer.

I hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: sinpelo
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:43 PM

At the risk of being called a DB apologist's apologist, I think we ought to be a little more tolerant of conflicting views. I'm sifting through the DB threads because I want to find out as much as possible about the issue. Personally, I'd like DB himself to post here. I'd like to know what he has to say. Disagree by all means but don't try to censor. Let us have all viewpoints and allow us to make up our minds.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Could have been anybody, really ...
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 04:38 PM

Well now, what have we here? Looks like another CM spin-off has just been launched!

Music By Mail is still listed by Amazon (UK) as a supplier for "Ballads & Songs" ...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0006FQ5T4/ref=dp_olp_0/026-0015039-8344423?condition=all0


... yet appears to be defunct (BTW, note the registrant & administrative contact details for each site) ...


http://www.musicbymail.co.uk/

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Whois Record

Domain name:
    musicbymail.co.uk

Registrant:
    Calum Bulmer

Registrant type:
    Not supplied

Registrant's address:
    North Works, Hookstone Park
    Harrogate
    A1 1AA
    GB

Registrant's agent:
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Relevant dates:
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welcome to celticmusic.co.uk! updated 25 August 2004

This is part of the Old Bridge Music website, and has no connection to any other UK based company.
Please click this link to go to the main site. Thanks for looking.


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Whois Record

Domain name:
    celticmusic.co.uk

Registrant:
    Old Bridge Music

Registrant type:
    Not supplied

Administrative contact's address:
    PO Box 7
    Ilkley
    West Yorkshire
    LS29 9RY
    UK

Registrant's agent:
    NetNames Limited [Tag = NETNAMES]
    URL: http://www.netnames.co.uk

Relevant dates:
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    Renewal date: 01-Mar-2007
    Last updated: 16-Feb-2005

Registration status:
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Name servers:
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WHOIS lookup made at 17:50:11 15-Aug-2006


http://www.oldbridgemusic.com

Welcome to Old Bridge Music

[etc, snipped]


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Registrant:

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Domain name: oldbridgemusic.com

Created on: 2005-02-16
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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 03:58 AM

I thought the remastering may make it more listenable! I'd probably buy it for the Drop Down Baby track, if I could get hold of it!

RtS


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 03:59 AM

Ignore last post- senior moment, wrong thread

Roger The Senile


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Pandora Box
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 06:53 AM

It seems also if Bulmer has registered another company (certainly its logo) in the UK Patents Office.   The Empire is getting bigger and bigger!!!!


Trade Marks Journal No. 6599 16 September 2005

(At this point there is the FOLK HERITAGE logo)

2396832 14 July 2005 (09)


Scientific, nautical, surveying, photographic, cinematographic, optical, weighing, measuring, signalling, checking (supervision), life-saving and teaching apparatus and instruments; apparatus and instruments for conducting, switching, transforming, accumulating, regulating or controlling electricity; apparatus for recording, transmission or reproduction of sound or images; magnetic data carriers, recording discs; data processing equipment and computers, computer hardware and firmware; computer software (including software downloadable from the Internet); compact discs; digital music (downloadable from the Internet); telecommunications apparatus; computer games equipment adapted for use with TV receivers; mouse mats; mobile phone accessories; contact lenses, spectacles and sunglasses.



David Robert Bulmer, Northworks, Hookstone Park, Harrogate, North Yorkshire, HG2 7DB.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 07:40 AM

From: GUEST,Could have been anybody, really ... - PM

Guest -

You seem to have spotted more than one piece of information - some is relevant to this thread and some does not link to the subject under discussion.

First, there seem to be CD Recordings of Nic Jones for sale - Your link to Amazon allows us to track down the following :-
There are (apparently) new CDs on sale through Mound Music who seem to be the online identity of an Edinburgh music shop. Their online shop at Amazon has listed :-
Nic Jones [Audio CD] Jones, Nic
Ballads and Songs [Import] [Audio CD] Jones, Nic

Also on Amazon - Irish music store has the same two CDs listed.
BLICKY and
BLICKY2
They are both identified as the LEADER recordings which are part of the dispute over royalties.


The second thing you have spotted -
http://www.musicbymail.co.uk/
does appear to be connected with Mr. Bulmer.

The third item - http://www.celticmusic.co.uk/ appears to be a web address owned by http://www.oldbridgemusic.com/ .
Old Bridge Music seems to be the music shop in Ilkley run by Chris and Mark Newman who are respected musicians. They are not part of Dave Bulmer's organisation.
I assume they have bought the "celticmusic.co.uk" address because people looking for music within the "celtic" genre will be able to find their site (Old Bridge is unlikely to be found by a Google for music or celtic music). They may even have purchased it to prevent somebody else using it for trading (who knows?).
The web page you reach is basically one to redirect you to the Newmans' main pages. It contains the following disclaimer :-
"This is part of the Old Bridge Music website, and has no connection to any other UK based company." i.e. They are NOT part of CM Distribution (or whatever it was officially called).

Of course, what we would all like to see is the "lost" Leader recordings being released (so we can actually listen to them) and the recording artists being given their royalties for their work. I sincerely hope that these "new" CD releases are the start of that process. If not they would just be cynical profiteering.

Quack!
Geoff the Duck.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 09:40 AM

The aforementioned Nic Jones titles on the Leader label are available from CAMSCO. If anyone has any reasonably firm evidence that royalties are not being paid (assuming that original contracts provided for such royalties), please let me know.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: nickp
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 01:10 PM

I guess it's on another thread but while people are reading this one:

Nic Jones - Game Set Match released on Topic on 2nd October with - as I understand it - approval of the Jones family. You can buy this one with impunity!

Nick


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 08:24 PM

I guess that means you can buy the others with punity.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Scotus
Date: 16 Aug 06 - 10:02 PM

Dick - Is that the same as punishment?

Jack


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 03:00 AM

Quite correct nickp.
Not quite sure that punity is a real word though!.
It's a bit like saying that the opposite of constitution, is prostitution! English Hey, what a language.
Back on track.
Yes, the Game Set Match CD has the full support of the family.
Wasn't involved myself, and will be interested to hear which alternative takes have been used. It's just a good thing to keep Nics work out there. particularly with the clout that Topic will bring.
As for all the Celtic Music stuff...Ah Well....It will sort itself out in the end.
So, Go out and buy Game Set Match, even if you've already got some of the tracks. I'm going to. And I've heard it all anyway. Sad or what!
Best to all Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 02:11 AM

Geoff the Duck quacked:

>You seem to have spotted more than one piece of information - some is relevant to this thread and some does not link to the subject under discussion.
>
>First, there seem to be CD Recordings of Nic Jones for sale - Your link to Amazon allows us to track down the [snip]
>They are both identified as the LEADER recordings which are part of the dispute over royalties.

But the point I was making was that MbM was also still listed as a supplier to Amazon, but actually judging by their website does not appear still to be trading. Thus there seems to be potential for Amazon to take money on their site for orders for goods from MbM and for customers not to receive the goods.
>
>The second thing you have spotted -
>http://www.musicbymail.co.uk/
>does appear to be connected with Mr. Bulmer.

Yes.

>The third item - http://www.celticmusic.co.uk/ appears to be a web address owned by http://www.oldbridgemusic.com/ .
>Old Bridge Music seems to be the music shop in Ilkley run by Chris and Mark Newman who are respected musicians. They are not part of Dave Bulmer's organisation.

Aaargh! A little/none-too-little matter of a sodding hyphen! Apologies to Chris, Mark, and OldBridge.

The address I *meant* to investigate was ...

http://www.celtic-music.co.uk/

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access to this document on this server.

Apache Server at musicbymail.co.uk

http://whois.domaintools.com/celtic-music.co.uk

Whois Record for Celtic-music.co.uk
Page Information
Record Type:         Domain Name
Whois Record

Domain name:
    celtic-music.co.uk

Registrant:
    Dave Bulmer

Trading as:
    Dave Bulmer

Registrant type:
    UK Individual

Registrant's address:
    North Works
    Hookstone Park
    Harrogate
    North Yorks
    HG2 7DB
    Harrogate
    North Yorks
    HG2 7DB
    GB

Registrant's agent:
    Fibranet Services Ltd [Tag = FIBRANET]

Relevant dates:
    Registered on: 08-Nov-1999
    Renewal date: 08-Nov-2007
    Last updated: 27-Sep-2005

Registration status:
    Registered until renewal date.

Name servers:
    ns1.ukdnsservers.co.uk
    ns2.ukdnsservers.co.uk

WHOIS lookup made at 06:47:46 19-Aug-2006

So, no new spinoff, except what Pandora Box found at Companies House.

Apologies to all for the false alarm.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Santa's Little Helper
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 02:28 PM

Hey Everyone, Had another great year dancing to the call of the lad from Harrogate. I just made a total elf of myself. Check me out by clicking the link below. Neil

http://www.elfyourself.com/?userid=6d7732e34273a183b372ed2G07010404


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 27 Nov 08 - 10:37 AM

Wot! No hyperlink!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Mauled Verb
Date: 01 May 09 - 08:12 AM

Do you think this is the same Dave Bulmer??


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 09 - 10:23 AM

yes ,it could possibly be.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Mauled Verb
Date: 01 May 09 - 10:47 PM

I think so too Dick.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: michaelr
Date: 02 May 09 - 03:06 AM

"You have to believe in something, somewhere down the line," said Dave Bulmer, who will own the business with John Cooper.

Think he's reformed?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 09 - 07:02 AM

that statement could mean anything.
for example,many entrepreneurs,just believe in making money,I dont know if this applies to Dave Bulmer or not.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Don Scott.
Date: 02 May 09 - 05:37 PM

I see from the link there is a possibility to comment on this article, perhaps those who have good cause to dislike this loathsome individual should add a comment or two.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Mauled Verb
Date: 07 May 09 - 07:10 AM

Good idea Don.

Except that I signed in, left a reasonably polite message suggesting that folks might want to make themselves aware of Mr B's history before getting too excited, and waited for it to appear on the page.

And waited... And waited....


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,John Braley
Date: 13 May 09 - 12:11 PM

The golden rule for anyone joining a business venture is the process of Due Diligence. Mr Cooper - being not a novice in such matters - will doubtless attend to this with seriousness. Track records are also very important and Mr Cooper will also doubtlessly have taken a prudent view on his new partner.

And then.... fingers crossed!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Tyke
Date: 14 May 09 - 11:13 AM

Mr B history seems to be that when nobody else wanted to buy Bankrupt stock Mr B put his money into buying it. Then years later when the grey pound funded by inflated house prices leaves people wanting to buy back their youth. Leaves some complaining about record catalogues that only exists only because of Mr B leaving the commercial decision of what to re release and when to him. I don't see anyone complaining about a restoration and re release of the EFDSS collection or the BBC Folk song archives.

Now Mr B seems to be re opening a well loved independent music store as our High Streets close shop after shop. As I understand it will also include a stage for impromptu concerts what a great idea. It should not only promote live artists and their work but also introduce those who attend to other artists whose work will be on sale in the shop.

What a great idea best wishes and all the best of Luck for the future!


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: pavane
Date: 15 May 09 - 02:34 AM

An attempt to sign up new artists, who may not be aware of the MU blacklisting?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 May 09 - 07:05 AM

Here we go again?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Dita
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:45 AM

Bulmer had a shop in Glasgow. He turned up one weekend, with no notice, and emptied the contents into a van, leaving staff high and dry.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:26 AM

Oh God.....Thought we were shot of this man.
He'll never reform, never do the decent thing.....I'm minded to ally him to the BNP apologist who stated "If those folk singers complain about the BNP.... tough....we'll continue to sell their product to raise funds for the party, and they can't do anything to stop us"
Sounds familiar?
Time to Join Folk against Fascism people.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Rob
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:02 PM

Needless to say, the shop never re-opened. Not a surprise. Wonder if the rights to the Selectadisc name are now tied up in litigation?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 01:04 PM

Selectadisc. Now it would seem that there was only the shortest of honeymoon periods between the two new partners, one of which was Dave Bulmer.   Companies House reveals that on 13th July 2009 on the Company House form 288B         "APPOINTMENT TERMINATED DIRECTOR DAVID BULMER". Could be that somebody saw the light (or darkness)! Watch this space.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 02:13 AM

Hi Andy. Long time no speak!
Putting Bulmer on one side for a moment. You'll no doubt be pleased to know that there was a tribute concert for Nic at Sidmouth this year.
Artists involved, Pete and Chris Coe,Chris Wood,Martin Simpson, James Fagan and Nancy Kerr,Paul Sartin,Faustus,
Jon Loomes,Ruth Notman,Jim Moray,Jon Boden,Jackie Oates and many more!!
And Nic turned up and sang...Joyous.
It's all recorded, and will probably see the light of day (after contractual stuff has been done)in the spring.
The main topic of conversation backstage was (Yes, you've guessed it!) The whole Celtic Music situation.
I think you can guess the attitude of all the artists involved in the gig with regard to Mr Bulmer.
We keep on, keeping on. Send me a PM, and we can communicate less publicly!
Regards Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 07:01 AM

Hi again Ralphie, yes its been a while. I have been in the US for 14 months so am really out of touch these days.

Pls post a contact address (email pref) and I will write as you suggest.

Splendid news about Sidmouth - what a blast it must have been. Andy


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 02:29 PM

Andy. Easy.
ralph.jordan@ntlworld.com
That should do it!....Best to talk privately.
Wheels are turning (admittedly slowly!)
And Yes, the Sidmouth gig was amazing. It's all safely recorded.
Get in touch mate.
Cheers Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Dita
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 10:14 PM

Just found an interesting listing on e-bay, under folk LPs. There is a number of brand new vinyl albums from Leader, Trailer, Black Crow, and a number of others including Clan Alba on vinyl, three pages in all, under the one dealer "yourpricemusic". Most of them are priced at £29.99 + £3.50 p&p. No surprise that they have not attracted any bids. The address of the dealer is, Celtic Visions, Northworks, Hookstone Park, Harrogate.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Effsee
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 11:35 PM

So what is wrong with this?

The material is being made available to people who might be interested.
The price doesn't seem overblown compared with some,   i.e.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROY-HARPER-SOPHISTICATED-BEGGAR-VERY-RARE-UK-FOLK-SPARK-JHL-105-LP-1967-/220962436194?pt=UK_Records&hash=item3372633462

What's the beef?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 05:38 AM

On eBay, the Clan Alba vinyl for sale from Celtic Visions is described as:

Up for auction is a BRAND NEW copy of CLAN ALBA LP by CLAN ALBA THIS IS A DOUBLE LP

[names of artists here]

this could be described as new old stock as it has sat safely in our warehouse for a number of years and has never been played, it is in mint condition.

This classic album by Clan Alba has been considered a gem in the world of folk rock music since its relese and is now a rare record, that is hard to come by especially NEW


What an interesting description - "brand new... new old stock". I wonder why it was sitting safely in a warehouse for a number of years, and why the time has now come to release it for sale.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 05:52 AM

Because auctioning off individual in-demand items piecemeal makes you more money than supplying shops with stock (at a trade discount)?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Dita
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 08:42 AM

Where's WHAT beef Effsee, I was only pointing out a post, that might be of interest to some.

As a collecter/dealer I felt that the price was high and thought it unusual that they were being sold at a blanket price, not taking any account of rarity or Record Collecter book price.

It was posted in this thread, as the address given for the seller is Dave Bulmer's,and the albums are ones he owns rights to.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,xchopp
Date: 25 May 12 - 05:07 PM

Er, so can we finally buy Nic Jones' Devil to a Stranger anywhere? on vinyl? on CD?


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 May 12 - 07:12 PM

this could be described as new old stock as it has sat safely in our warehouse for a number of years and has never been played, it is in mint condition.

There are several of these currently listed on eBay, including a number of hen's-teeth Leader/Trailer LPs - all priced at £30 or so.

I've just left the same message on four of the Leader/Trailer auctions, using the eBay "ask a question" facility:

Why aren't you giving these albums the CD release they deserve, with royalties paid to the artist?

Probably won't make any difference, but it made me feel better.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 May 12 - 12:09 PM

Had a reply - that was quick!

I assume it wasn't intended for publication, but I don't think I'm betraying any confidences if I say that Mr Bulmer (if it is he) is unrepentant.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,CJ
Date: 26 May 12 - 04:09 PM

The Bright Phoebus description is rather wry:

Up for auction is a BRAND NEW copy of Bright Phoebus
this could be described as new old stock as it has sat safely on our shelves for a number of years and has never been played, it is in mint condition.

This classic album by Lal and Mike waterson has been considered a gem in the folk world since its relese and is now an extreamly rare record.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 May 12 - 05:03 PM

I really can't see the point in these threads about Dave Bulmer anymore, he doesn't give a shit about anybody here or what we all think, it's a huge waste of time and energy.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 May 12 - 05:07 PM

I do not agree, it lets every new arrival on the folk scene know exactly what Bulmer has done


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 May 12 - 09:39 PM

would that be unsold new old stock of the defective "Bright Phoebus" reject LPs
with off centre spindle holes ???


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Effsee
Date: 26 May 12 - 10:47 PM

GSS:-

"I do not agree, it lets every new arrival on the folk scene know exactly what Bulmer has done "

Just what has he done?

He has a lot of these original LPs, purchased legally, in fact an awful lot of these.

They didn't exactly fly of the shelves in the first place!

Too many of us doing a bit of tape-recording maybe? :-(

But now he's being castigated for bringing them on market.

The original artists sold their rights to royalties in their original contracts.

Not Mr.Bulmer's concern...he's a businessman, not a charity.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 27 May 12 - 04:12 AM

The trouble is, Bulmer's "lack of demand" argument is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've got no interest in buying a CD-R of Bright Phoebus from Bulmer in the knowledge that what I'd get would be a cheaply-produced CD-R with a single sheet of thin paper by way of 'booklet', and that none of the proceeds would go to the artists or their estates / families. The same goes in spades for paying Bulmer £30 for a copy of the original LP, as desirable an artifact as it is.

A remastered CD with a decent booklet, produced with the approval of George, Ann and the musicians who played on it, and with a standard royalty going to the families - I'd put my money down like a shot, and I'm sure lots of people here would too.


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Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6)
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 May 12 - 04:27 AM

you are entitled to disagree, but i think you are talking cods wallop,
Mr Bulmer is someone who has for many years prevented interesting material from being available to the public, in my case against the artists wishes.
The contracts were never drawn up with Dave Bulmer, I certainly would not have signed a contract with him, he may or may not be legally entitle to do what he does, but what about morally?
you appear to be coming up coming up with a generalisation about businessmen
    it is interesting to note that some time ago one of his legal advisors was struck off.
    Please do not give the impression that all businessmen behave like Dave Bulmer they do not, in my experience only a few do, but most businessmen that i have encountered are in my experience more generous.
Effssee HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTS? if you havent you are not well informed, and I would suggest you buzz off, until you know what you are on about.


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