BS: KatrinaGate

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:20 AM

Oh yes, bobert, the point is had you been down there you might not be clueless as to what really happened.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM

Let me ax them ignored questions one at a time Bobert.

What do Poppagator say bout Katrinagate?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 02:11 PM

Rufus:

The original post that began this thread addresses mpst of your flaming rhetoric. Poppagator's remarks on the Katrina incident were mostly limited to his personal misadventures, as I recall. You could PM him if you took out a handle here.


A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 02:32 PM

Hey, did you get your share of the $1.4 billion given out so far on fraudulent Katrina-Rita claims?

The feds are talking about some 7000 prosecutions for fraud, but most claims probably never will be investigated, chances are good to get a chunk of taxpayer money.

The Bush-Chummy-Rummie-etc. administration wins by a landslide as the most inept in USA history.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 07:41 PM

Well, rufus, you keep asking question that I have ****fully**** answered... You can't just jump in the middle of threads and expect to sound intellegent... I've answer the "evacuation" question at least a half a dozen times... I'm not going to support yer laziness in not takin' the time to bring yerself up tyo date on this thread... Now, tell ya what, after you have found my answer, let me know what I said to prove you actually spent the time to bring yerself up to date...

I've also answered the P-Gator question **** to the best of my knowledge****... BTW, what does P-Gator have to do with this.... He doesn't work for Bush or FEMA... Last I heard from him he was spilttin' his time takin' care of his elderly mom in New Jersey and working on his house in NO but...

... no matter waht he's doing, expalin why this matters, will ya???

Seems that you are terribly locked in obn stuff that don't mean nuthin' to nuthin' to Bush's failures which have been highlighted by Katrina as the protector of the American people...

Now, hows 'bout finding the "evacuation" asnwer and prove to me that you found it and maybe we can talk about the position I have laid out in regards to "evacuation"... No hints either...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 07:55 PM

Amos, I thought Poppagator left before Katrina hit and did not return for weeks. What were his "misadventures"?

And just one more time, in every case, the State and Local governments are resposible for the evacuation prior to the storm.
Giving a mandatory evacuation order on Sunday as did the Mayor was a bit late.

But I am not going to try to convince bobert of this, he and his moldy stash box will do as they please. That is okay, I just consider the source. And yea, I have read "The Plan".

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:43 PM

Now in this here thread the fust mention of who is in charge of evacuations I sees posted by Guest A:

"In every aspect of it, the stipulation is that the first responders, read local and state government here, are responsible for the for the first evacuation and rescue attempts. Don't you think it might be a little late for someone to respond from a 1000 miles away.
If you find this to not be to your liking, then please quote us the section and paragraph from the National Response plan that dictates otherwise. It could be there but my copy doesn't reflect it."

Didja answer that one? Nope you jus take to callin people stupid and callin them name like this:

"This is the point I've made over abnd over but these knothead Bushites jsut want to say stuff like "life is good" and leave it at that...;

Sure, life is good... I have provided GUEST A a source to find out just how good my life is but yet, when I point out the4 dfriggin' truth to either GUEST A or Old Guy, all I get is "Life is good and yer wro9ng, Bobert" crap throwed back at me...

Weell, it's like arguin' with a couple friggin' retards, as far as I can see it... The two of them don't have 'nuff I.Q. points to take on a box of animal crackers...

They say the same dumbass stuff over and over and over like it's true????

Freud would have a field day with these two..."

Scuse me mr right reverand Bobert but you aint answered the question yit and it is because you caint without blowin away yore assertion that Bush is tha problem with everthin.

Now here is another shinin example of how you don't answer:
You said "I've also heard from P-Gator who has been back to his house in N. O. and the stories are very similar"

I axed you about what Poppagator had to say and you gets all puffed up and said:
"I've also answered the P-Gator question **** to the best of my knowledge****... BTW, what does P-Gator have to do with this.... He doesn't work for Bush or FEMA... Last I heard from him he was spilttin' his time takin' care of his elderly mom in New Jersey and working on his house in NO but... no matter waht he's doing, expalin why this matters, will ya???"

The reason it matters is like I done said sevral times befo in this thread, but maybe you aint even readin you own thread, is if GWB is the sole reason fo these here problems surely the actul residence of ground zero would be up in arms even wus than you but they ain't and I am a wunderin why.

Now how bout stead of wasting so much disk space with your puffery, name callin an evasive tackticks you just anser the danged questions? Bye tha way you is up to 506 now. Maybe now ya can get on O'rielly and you and him can try avoidin his questions on National TV.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 08:50 PM

Q, it has nothing to do with the ineptness of GWB and others.
The fraud is due to the absolute cheating and greedy mentality of a lot of Americans. You have seen nothing yet and when you do, give credit where credit is due - a segment of America that thinks greed and cheating is the American way. GWB and the Feds were trying to help. They put too much trust in a large segment of the welfare population.

And when other fraud comes to the surface, you will find that it will represent another segment, the something for nothing group and not a part of the welfare community, who are screwing the American taxpayer more than the welfare people could ever dream of!

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:09 PM

An heres another one you can claim you can dance around an claim you has answered:

Who decides when the locals (first responder) has done been overwhelmed?

I guess it jus don't matter of they piss away two days goin back and forth on whether it is a forced evacuation or not. It only matters when the second responders cain't help right away cause the first responders screwed up so bad.

Yeah, them second responders are the bad guys. You cain't blame anythin on the first responders cause they is so stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:33 PM

LOL, Rufe...

Allison Young, reporter for Knight Ritter and author of an article entitled "Chertoff Delayed Federal Response, Memo Shows"... These are her words and she makes her living reseraching the stuff that neither you nor I have the time to research:

"Well, the entire response has been intersting, hearing all of the finger pointing about the lack of command and control on the ground in the hurricane zone during Katrina. In January of this year, the Department of Haomeland Security unveiled their National Response Plan. This was supposed to be a blueprint in this post-Septmeber 11 world for how we were going to deal with a massive catastrophe. While certainly terrorism was an emphasis behind this document, it very clearly says that this is to be used when you have a major catastrophic natural disaster, such as a hurricane.

What's surprising is, when you listen to the testimony yesterday by the former FEMA director, it seems to be in conflict with what the pane calls for in a catastrphe, where locals have become overwhelmed by the situation, both in terms of resources and the structure, that the federal governemnt is supposed to take a proactive- take proactive steps to protect the lives of of citizens. And it says that all the standard procedures fro requiring requests can be waived in these kinds of situations, and while federal asuthorities are supposed to notify. if they can, and coordinate with staes, it says, in the plan, that the coordination process should not delay or impede the rapid mobilization and deployment of critical federal resources...."

(Interview with Aliaon Young, Septmber 28, 2005, Pacifica Radio)

Now to Governor Blanco:

"Among the more that 100,000 pages of newly released records, which ranged from after-action reports to hand-scrawled notes written at the height of the storm, are memoes showing Blanco frustrated and angered over delays in evacuations and the slow delivery of promised federal aid.

'We need everything you've got,' Blanco is quoted in a memo as telling President Bush on August 29, the day Katrina made landfall. But despite assurances from the federal Emergency Management Agency that 500 buses were 'standing by,', Blanco's aides were compelled to to take action when the buses failed to materialize, documents show...

(There's mush more in a Washington Post story of December 4, 2005 written by Jody Warrick, Spencer S. Hsu and Anne Hull entitled "Blanco Releases Katrina Records")

Hmmmmmmm, Rufe???

These are some purdy danged good journalist who make their liovings doing the hard research... Hey, if you want to jusy go and call them liars, hey, it's a fee country but...

...seems like the ball is in your court...

Ahhhh, as fir P-Gator... What yer fascination with the poor guy??? Like does he, as one home owner, represent the heartbeat of NO??? I just don't understand yer logic in constantly bring him up as if he were the second coming... Maybe, while yer mulling over what I have written here you will elaborate on his importance in Bush's response to Katrina??? Por favor...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 09:50 PM

I axed why bone of them gound Zero folks was in tune with you. You mentioned poppagator. I axed waht he said. You ain't said what he said yet.

Now I am axin what the first responders did in the two precious days before the hurricane hit?

I am sayin they fiddlefarted around cause they was so inept an unsuitable for tha job. They could have got them people out but they didn't even tho they was told to. They set the evacuation process back so bad it was a dizaster. They could have called a military evacuation with their own national guard an they could have axed for out of state national guard to get them folks out beginin on Friday.

Did they do it? no

Now ya can hoot an holler at me about bein a bushite and point to the number of posts and claim nobody has made a intelligent response Blah Blah but you caint keep the first responders out of the list of causes for the Disaster.

If you do that you is just makin this whole thread just another nasty ass one sided, anti Bush rant

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jun 06 - 10:08 PM

Yo, rufe...

We have one danged Mudcatter from NO and you want to put him on some pedistal and worship his every burp... Like what it that all about, pal???

Hey, I don't speaek for NO any more than you do and anymore that P-Gator does so what is the deal here... As far as debating points, this is a "zero" for yer side...

And rather than talk about what oviously overwhelmed local and state governemtns did lets get back to the Alaison's Young's obseravations here... Some things are too big for local governemnts to handle... Do you have any experience with local governments, budget processes, ect in these days of fewer and fwer federal dollars going back to state and local governemnts???

Yeah, just answer that one... You been in budget hearings and work sessions??? I have and guess what, pal.. It ain't too purdy...

Like after paying for the basics, local governments ain't got no extra dough for first responders... Sates don't either... The Council of zGovernors has been begging for dough from Bush but guess what... Bush writes checks like a man with no arms when it comes to much more than the DoD and their contractors...

You, my frind, are not livin' in the real world... You haven't been payin' attention to the dollar drain in state and local governments that have occured since 2000!!!

Ask any Governor, Republican or Democart... They'll tell you... Ask any mayor of a large city... Thay'll tell you...

And yopu expect these governments to have all that extra cash to do what FEMA used to do??

You are not living in the real world...

Go attend yer local city council meeting and get educated...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 12:11 AM

Bobert points out something every citizen should know- a major problem for all our cities in the U. S. of A. and Canada is the lack of money for basics, as tax money goes for frills like wars and pork barrels. New Orleans and most major cities have no reserve funds but live from hand to mouth, always at least one tax year behind needs. There is nothing for keeping up infrastructure. (Engineers in N. Y. live in dread of a major failure in main water lines, some of which have had no repair or maintenance in 100 years). Infrastructure is deteriorating everywhere.

(Digression to local comment). Right here in River City (Calgary, that is), the school system needs $100 million for essential repairs to schools but have been offered $4 million. Boards are faced with abandoning some schools because needed repairs were never made, and they can't get the funds, although the province is swimming in oil money. The provincial government gave a $400 gift to every citizen when as a focused expenditure, the money would have paid for a few new schools, hospitals, and their upkeep.

Back to Katrinagate- The 1.4 billion dollars thrown away by the feds on false Katrina-Rita claims, as detailed in the N. Y. Times, would have helped the N. O. and other local governments with rebuilding their school, transportation and other genuine infrastructure needs.
Katrinagate marches on!

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 06:56 AM


http://www.nola.com/rose/t-p/index.ssf?/rose/katrina/do_the_right_thing.html
Do The Right Thing

Open your hearts and your neighborhoods to those in need
Friday, December 30, 2005
By Chris Rose

I don't mean to pick on old Cyril Neville in every column, but it's just so darn easy.

Lately, the Bitter Neville Brother From Austin Who Besmirches Our Name has taken to wearing a T-shirt when he performs that says "Ethnic Cleansing in New Orleans."

And that's the truth. I, for one, am glad that we finally got rid of all those pesky white people in Old Metairie, Lakeview, Gentilly, Chalmette, Arabi and Plaquemines Parish.

They were beginning to bug me, what with their strange diets and music and taste in automobiles. Ugh! What's with this Prius thing, anyway? You call that a car?

Cyril has turned into one of those lamentable figures, the demagogues and rabble-rousers and so-called Christian Soldiers who use a disaster such as this to further their own bizarre and deconstructive personal causes and agendas, whether they be racial discord, homophobia or just the embarrassing need for attention. (See: Jackson, Jesse.)

Like Spike Lee, the acclaimed director who seems determined to displace Oliver Stone as America's chief conspiracy-minded filmmaker, who paraded around New Orleans a few weeks ago proclaiming that it was highly plausible that the levees were bombed to run all the black people out of town.

Well, I guess no one checked in with Houston and Baton Rouge when this plan was hatched.

The only real evidence to support this theory is that, if there was such a plan, it was mangled so badly that it wouldn't be hard to believe that the government was, indeed, involved.

If the plan was to run all the black folks out of town but all the stockbrokers in Lakeview got taken out in the deal, then it's not a stretch to think that FEMA's fingerprints are all over the thing.

The race issue is going to haunt our rebuilding process for years; that is a lamentable given.

And it begins with trying to fathom how 49 states just opened their doors, their communities and their hearts to our evacuees but now that we are trying to piece things back together here, AT HOME, we do not offer the same hospitality to our own.

The shame of this is unspeakable, the FEMA trailer thing and its concomitant cry of Not In My Neighborhood.

There is good reason to dread the great inconvenience that trailer parks bring, but here's the Big Picture on that: Inconvenience is going to be our way of life around here for an appreciable period of time.

We can bear it together or apart. We can open our neighborhoods to those who have suffered more than us, or we can wait for the whole damn thing to explode in our faces.

Here's a novel idea: You could introduce yourself to the trailer people. Wouldn't it be strange to discover you have the same interests in gardening or sports or music?

There is this daunting notion sweeping our community that some of these trailer parks will harbor -- horrors! -- POOR PEOPLE!

Well, yes -- and many of them were poor before Katrina and now they have nothing at all except a gleaming white trailer crammed up against a bunch of other gleaming white trailers and as experiments in social interaction go, we're up against tough odds and praying for a miracle of harmony.

Here's the thing about poor people: Most of them are honest. Many of them will become writers and artists and musicians and teachers and cops. Many will serve in the National Guard units that saved our wet and desperate behinds this fall when the bottom fell out.

And some poor people will even become rich. It's weird how that works.

And, truth is, they're less likely than Entergy or your insurance company to try and rip you off.

It is incumbent upon those of us who "have" to help those who "had"; help them (us) rebuild their (our) lives here in their (our) home. That the regular citizenry would block this is unwise, uncharitable and, more than anything else -- it is not the Louisiana way.

Let's go with the words of Spike Lee -- the title of a great movie he made a long time ago -- before he became a whack job and started claiming the Oscars were fixed because he didn't have one.

It was called "Do The Right Thing."

Simple advice. Somebody. Please.

. . . . . . .

Columnist Chris Rose can be reached at [e-mail], [phone] or [phone].

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:13 AM

http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?sconfig=nola&count=20&xpath.pubdate=06%2F15%2F2006+06%2F14%2F2006+06%2F13%2F2006+06%2F12%2F2006+06%2F11%2F2006+06%2F10%2F2006+06%2F09%2F2006+06%2F08%2F2006+06%2F07%2F2006+06%2F06%2F2006+06%2F05%2F2006+06%2F04%2F2006+06%2F03%2F2006+06%2F02%2F2006&xpath.category_letter=&xpath.any=corruption&x=20&y=9


» Firm lent Jefferson at least $50,000   (Thursday, 6/15/2006, Times-Picayune)
WASHINGTON -- Rep. William Jefferson, D-New Orleans, who is at the center of a federal criminal bribery probe, received a personal loan from a satellite radio executive who has had business before the federal government, financial records released Wednesday show.

» Four N.O. housing developments will be demolished   (Thursday, 6/15/2006, Times-Picayune)
Promising a renaissance for public housing in New Orleans, federal housing officials said Wednesday that they will reopen 1,000 units by summer's end and within three years demolish four decades-old complexes, changing sections of the city's landscape by replacing the sprawling brick developments with a mix of single-family homes and apartments.

» Former political fund-raiser sentenced   (Wednesday, 6/14/2006, Times-Picayune)
Former New Orleans business executive Gilbert Jackson, once a major political fund-raiser at the local level, has been sentenced to 27 months in federal prison for income tax evasion.

» Mesmerizing madam   (Wednesday, 6/14/2006, Times-Picayune)
How does one prepare for a role like Norma Wallace, for more than four decades the French Quarter's most infamous, colorful and scandalously successful whorehouse madam?

» 2nd cop accused of armed robbery arrested, resigns   (Tuesday, 6/13/2006, Times-Picayune)
The second New Orleans police officer accused of participating in a three-man shakedown of a downtown massage parlor last week was arrested Monday, and Superintendent Warren Riley called the arrests a reflection of his department's policy to weed out corruption.

» Punishment doesn't fit the allegation   (Tuesday, 6/13/2006, Times-Picayune)
Far be it from me to take up for U.S. Rep. William Jefferson, whose embarrassing actions, caught on tape by the FBI in the course of a widespread bribery probe, have undermined his flood-ravaged district's prospects in Washington at the worst possible time.

» Ex-bail bonds executive starts sentence   (Saturday, 6/10/2006, Times-Picayune)
Former Bail Bonds Unlimited executive Norman Bowley has reported to prison for his part in corrupting then-Judge Alan Green with cash and gifts in exchange for boosting the company's profits.

» GOSPEL AND GOALS   (Friday, 6/09/2006, Times-Picayune)
Contemporary gospel star Kirk Franklin intended to spend Monday, a rare day off at home in Dallas, helping his oldest son prepare for his first semester of college.

» Jefferson on the defensive   (Friday, 6/09/2006, Times-Picayune)
U.S. Rep. William Jefferson, D-New Orleans, is ratcheting up his response as the threat of indictment looms.

» Vote may cost seat on powerful panel   (Friday, 6/09/2006, Times-Picayune)
WASHINGTON -- A House Democratic steering committee voted Thursday to recommend that embattled Rep. William Jefferson, D-New Orleans, be stripped temporarily of his seat on the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, but a vote by the full Democratic caucus was delayed after strong objections from the head of the Congressional Black Caucus.

» EDITORIAL: It's time to step in, governor   (Thursday, 6/08/2006, Times-Picayune)
Opponents of levee board consolidation didn't wait long to try to unravel reforms passed in February.

» Jefferson promises he has 'an honorable explanation'   (Wednesday, 6/07/2006, Times-Picayune)
WASHINGTON -- Rep. William Jefferson, D-New Orleans, said Tuesday that there is "an honorable explanation" for the damaging scenario being painted by the federal government in the federal bribery probe targeting him, and he again denied breaking any laws.

» Pious lectures from a House committee   (Wednesday, 6/07/2006, Times-Picayune)
Watching a legislative committee discuss ethics can put you in mind of what Dr. Johnson said when told that a woman had delivered the sermon at a Quaker meeting:"Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on its hinder legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

» Changing the system, vs. the subject   (Tuesday, 6/06/2006, Times-Picayune)
Gov. Kathleen Blanco sat down Monday before the House Ways and Means Committee, to plead once again that New Orleans residents be allowed to vote on whether to merge the city's seven assessors into a single office.

» For juries, seeing deed on tape often is believing   (Saturday, 6/03/2006, Times-Picayune)
WASHINGTON -- The kind of videotaped evidence confronting U.S. Rep. William Jefferson, D-New Orleans, is often more persuasive to jurors than even eyewitness testimony but doesn't always produce a slam-dunk case for prosecutors, lawyers Thomas Puccio and Michael Tigar said.

» Uncle's larceny at RTA surprises Morial   (Saturday, 6/03/2006, Times-Picayune)
Marc Morial broke his silence this week on the federal corruption probes into his eight-year mayoral administration, stating that he had no inkling that his uncle, Glenn Haydel, had stolen money from the Regional Transit Authority.

» Judge backs Jefferson affidavit ruling   (Friday, 6/02/2006, Times-Picayune)
WASHINGTON -- A federal judge in Maryland on Thursday affirmed an earlier ruling authorizing the release of an FBI affidavit used to justify a search of the U.S. residence of the vice president of Nigeria and his wife on the same day that Rep. William Jefferson's homes were searched by FBI agent.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 07:25 AM

Q, you and bobert would have been the first to complain if the Feds had delayed the offering of funds. Why not comment on the greedy and crooked citizens who took advantage of something offered in good faith?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 08:36 AM

Great piece by Chris Rose, Woody...

Thanks for posting it... The tiny letters kinda hurt my head but it was well worth the read...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 08:42 AM

Why you doin a cover up of whut Poppagator said?

Bobert either can't or won't answer simple questions.

I guess that's wut people in the real world do. They keeps changin tha subjects.

When FEMA don't get aid to tha folks fast enuf they gets criticized. When they cut tha red tape to get aid to them faster, they gets critisized. Is it tha crooks that does tha stealin in tha real world or is it the people that let's em steal? Opps, I fogot, you is always on the side of tha killers an crooks.

Hey mr real world, no answer Bobert, for the umpteenth time, How come FEMA ain't the independant agincy they was back in the golden years of the Clintoon administration?

You ever even been to NO? I has. I done stood on the levees and looked up at the ships. Then I turned around an looked down on tha city an I wundered How long it would be befo a storm would flood it.

I heard Mr Nagin changin his mind back an forth about forcin an evacuation for two days. When I heared predictions of frigerators and small cars flyin through the air, when I heard that you had to be in a 4 story buildin to be safe from tha flood an even then the windows would blow out, when I heard that even if you survived all that you would be stranded for at least a week with no food, water or medcines, I sepent all Sunday afternoon callin folks I know to tell them to get the hell out of thar and don't plan on comin back for months at least.

Well the lines was so messed up that I had to call bout 20 times for each time I got thru and then the people on tuther end was unwillin to leave cause nobody was forcin them to leave. I kept callin gack with even worse perdictions until they finaly got out Sunday night and by then they barely got out.

Now what the hell do you know except what high frofit corporate mainstream media shitheads has fed to ya?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 09:26 AM

Why, Rufus, well done. Sounds like you saved some asses based on yer own good judgement.

A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 09:39 AM

I am gonna rename Bobert O'Bobert cause all he wants to hear is what agrees with him an he don't answer any questions hisself.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 11:04 AM

Here's what P-Gator said (paraphrased) in rrgards to Katrina:

"Fortunately we lived on the 2nd floor so most of our good stuff wasn't damaged... The first floor, however, where we stored a lot of stuff was flooded out and everything is ruined, including the wallboard. It'm going down there to see what I can salvage and to collect a few things then I'm going back to New Jersey to take care of my mom..."

That's 'bout the crux of the discussion.. It's puzzeling that anyone would find any meat in that that could be used to prove any point or that anyone would promote poor ol' P-Gator to some kinda Katrina guru or see-er who is the end all authority on Bush's failures...

That conversation occued last October and I haven't had any further contact with P-Gator since...

Now, whoever wants to pour thru the contents of our discussion, which I think was rather mondane, for debating nuggets, have at it...

As fir "mainstream sh*theads", Rufe, this thread began well before "mainstream sh*theads" arrived at this story... It was done thru hard work and many hours of reading all kinds of stuff from Google search, from personal stories, to obscure articles, to less obscure articles, then to Googling stuff like National Response Plan, flood control, FEMA, DHS, etc...

This was before Michael Brown's 2nd trip to Congress for intense questioning... This was before the discussion of the organization of DHS and FEMA became common discussions... This was before the subject became vouge...

I know from the ill-informed rebuttals, if you can call them that at all, that there is no one on the Bush side of the fence who has evn scrathed the surface in familiarizing themselves with the real "facts" involving the original positions that I laid out and thus a string of persoanl attacks against me for having put in the time it takes to research an issue and make an argument...

Katrina ain't about me, Rufe... If you think it is go back an reread the original post of this thread... It's about a a series of failures within the Bush administartion... He's the CEO and the job didn't get done in accordance with his own folks National Response plan...

I guess if I were assigned your side to debate, however, seein' as there little there to defend, I might use the same tactics as many anonomous GUEST's have used... Second thought, I'd ask the debate coach if I could just take a pass and iof he or she said "no", I'd quit the debate team...

But, Rufe, and others keep them personal attacks comin'... With each and everyone of them you are just proving that you ain't got no real defenses...

BTW, we all do what we can... I donated as much money to the Red Cross as I could afford... Plus I played two benefit concerts, one in Northern Virgina and the other here in Luray...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 03:01 PM

Where is the Poppagators anger at GWB?

If he was holdin him responsible for evething like you are an like you say evebody should he would say so. He didn't so that means you is just beatin yore chest and making a lot of noise about GWB while side steppin any questions about who else is responsible. Ya don't want to look at tha whole picture.

Like I said another nasty ass one sided rant about Bush and a false one, a troll at that. Just Fun for O'Bobert.

let's go back thru those questions one at a time and see if ya can answer them or have fun not answerin em.

What are the first responders responsibilities?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jun 06 - 08:08 PM

No more answers until you do a little answerin' of yer own, Rufe.. I asked you hald a dozen relevant qurstion that you seem to try to evade by asking me stuff that don't have nuthin' to do with the issue at hand...

Like P-Gator questions... What on God's Good Earth has possessed you to not only appoint P-Gator to the position of speaking for every New Orleanan, which if I were from there I would find personally insaultin, but then you kepp asking the same dumb-ass question for me to answer as if P-Gator was in possession of the Holy Grail??? I'm not too sure who yer debating coach was in high school or college but that person failed you miserably...

If this was a court of law I would have motioned the judge for "Relevance" over and over as you ask questions that have nuthin' to do with Bush's response to Katrina...

Maybe you'd like to expalin how P-Gatot's testmony is relevant to Bush's response to Katrina???

Maybe you like to explain why you try to turn this discussion to one about me???

Maybe you'd like to explain what queations you have asked that I haven't answered and why you think they are "relevant" to this thread???

Maybe you'd like to explain why you have used foul language in yer posts???

No, pal, it isn't me who has been palying games... It's you and you continue to play game becuase either you like playing games of you have no real defense... It really doesn't matter much to me...

As for responding to any more of yer posts don't expect much more responses because frankly, and I don't mean this disrespectfully, until you come up with some reasonable rebuttals, responding to yer accusdations and abitings it not worth my time...

You have added nuthin' to this discussion... If you think you have, please explain and answer all the questions I put forth in this post... Purdy simple... You've been playing a bad hand and it getting time to show 'um....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 03:33 AM

Dear O'Bobert:

#1 Unless you got some kinda gag order, anythin and everythin to do with Katrina is pertinent ta this here thread you started, other wise you done illegally put Katrina in tha name.

#2 I never appointed anybody to anythin. I wanted to see if somebody from NO ahrees with you. Does Poppagator? Did he say Bush Blew itwif no mention of the local gummint?

Personal attacks by O'Bobert:
"Bush-heads, T-Head included"
"All the crap you are saying is just that: crap"
"Waht don't you get about that???: How many time do I have to point that out to you before it sinks into yer bone-head???"
"knothead Bushites"
"Weell, it's like arguin' with a couple friggin' retards, as far as I can see it... The two of them don't have 'nuff I.Q. points to take on a box of animal crackers."
"Freud would have a field day with these two"
"You sound like some prize-fighter whio has both eyes bloodied and is just flailin' way a air"
"The dumb shit who said there were WMDs in Iraq,"
"Well, no, I haven't" quacks the quaster"

O'Boberts bad language:
"They say the same dumbass stuff over and over and over like it's true????"
"Then you get these two knotheads who are either just making sh*t up or are gettin' sh*t that is made up for them from some Bushite blog and it's, quite frankly, purdy danged pathetic"
"It doesn't matter a rat's ass"
"Who gives a rat's ass about Blanko"
"if you don't have the balls"

O'Bobert's hypocrisy:
"missing the big piccure"
"name calling by you and the other "couragous" GUESTS"


O'Boberts attempt to control the discussion to suit himself:
"there are some premises that I laid down that superceed yer arguments"

O'Bobert wanderin off of the topic he demands everybody else (cept his buds) must stick to:
"Once upon a time, a very bad thing happened and some angry people from Saudi Arabia hyjacked 4 American Airliners and flew 2 of the into buildings in New York, 1 into the Pentagon and the last airliner crashed in a Pennsylvania woods. This occured on September 11th and so it has since just been referred to as "Nine Eleven"

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 08:16 AM

Well, that is enough for me. Love the summary. And bobert, you were the one from the beginning that said this Poppagator fellow would help prove your point(s). Have not seen that yet - he did what any smart person would do and what all were told to do and got the hell of NO before the storm.

I still don't know if you are an agitator, play "Devils Advocate" a basic wiseguy or badly uniformed. I happen to feel the latter is a large part of of this.

You are the winner in one respect - ignorance is bliss and you are happy.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:10 AM

Relevance, por favor...

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:15 AM

You guys are a piece of work -- all you do is spew tangents around like some wanna-be circle running amok.

Find the point. It's in the first few posts to this thread. Speak to the point.

Pose a specific question and answer specific questions offered by others.

What are y'all doing here?

A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 10:33 AM

Good point, Amos and I think the following two posts say it all. No one here replied to the 01:35 AM post until bobert at 9:35 PM.
WHy did others not respound? They were able to ascertain the real truth

Post @ 08 January 01:35 AM and a post @ 9:35 PM same day.


Once again, shrugging off the facts.

As I said just above, that is enough for me. You can have Joe check for my ISP on this thread from now on if you don't believe me.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:17 PM

So what is yer point Amos?

I got to ax you questions now since O'Bobert done shut down his propaganda machine.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 03:27 PM

Well, GUEST, since you were too indifferent to provide a link I crawled back in time to look at those posts. I don't see a question there, exactly. What is it you are saying? That the Governors delay in turning over authority to the Feds was responsible for the inactivity of the Federal government in responding?

Why do you expect me to go to the trouble of trying to guess what you are implying?

A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 09:21 PM

Well, Amos, I don't have a clue about GUEST's post... I also went back and reread them as if they were going to be some thunderous post that we all missed that contained the Holy Grail but, ahhhh, they seemed purdy mundane to me???

But one thing is fir sure... These GUEST's don't collectively have a rebuttal... Here we are well over 500 posts now and not one actual, ahhhh, rebuttal??? But they are persistent at gnat like distractions... But no real defense here...

Oh sure, they say that Bobert has to have it his own way, or Bobert is this or Bobert is that... But no rebuttals???

But, hey, it has been entertainin', that's fir sure... Here GUEST A has changed his name to GUEST, Rufus trying to neddle me 'cause of my couzin Rufus... Hey, that's some funny stuff, Amos... And then he wandered over to Tweedsblues 'er somewhere to find stuff I said there about "stink bombs" that I'd almost forgotten I posted about Mudcat... I love it... Like I siad, very entertainin', indeed...

No rebuttals, however, so I guess they know their boy screwed up royally but can't admit it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 09:29 PM

BTW, I just returnd from performin' at a fundraiser, "Relay for Life", which raises money for cancer research down at the ball field in Luray... Big danged crowd... It was fun... Played with a 14 year old sax player, Luke "Saxman" Black, who can blow that horn... Don't hurt me none that his dad is assistent town manager but he sho nuff can blow that horn...

Wonder what GUEST's did for their communities today???...

(There you go agin, Bobert, blowing yer own horn about just how wonderful you are...)

Thought I'd beat the GUEST's to their *** usual reaction*** and save 'um the time..

And, GUESTs, your welcome...

But still curious about what you anonomous folks do in the real world... Hehe... Not that I'd believe anyone who is, ahhhhh, anon...

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:15 PM

GWB screwed up royally

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:35 PM

O'Bobert misses "the big piccure"

Won't answer any questions about how FEMA got to be part of DHS.

In tha real world one way jerks don't need to answer questions. All they got to do is repeat them selves over and over and over.

"Yeah, Junior loves to pimp out his chest "
"Bush has pumped out his chest and sid over and over and over"
"and chest pumpin' out"
"Bush goes about pumping out his chest"
"go 'round the country pumpin; out one's chest boasting"
"Bush loved to pump out his chest and proclaim"
"from pumping out his chest saying"
"Bush didn't mind pumping out his chest"
"a liar who pumped out his chest"

Funny I never seen him pump out hiz chest even once.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:18 AM

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/05/ltm.01.html

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Carol. I'm Miles O'Brien.
A grim mission in New Orleans. Teams going house-by-house to find the victims of Katrina who couldn't escape in time. The death toll expected to be in the thousands. How high could it go? Frightening to imagine. We're live in New Orleans this morning -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Soledad O'Brien on Bourbon Street in New Orleans. This morning, you're going to hear my interview with the city's mayor. He'll tell us very candidly about his response before Katrina hit. Is he responsible for some of the blame? Also, we'll hear some details of the conversation that he had with the state's governor and President Bush on Air Force One. That's ahead -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: And President Bush in the disaster zone again Friday and will be back there today. That's on this AMERICAN MORNING.........
S. O'BRIEN: There are people who say your evacuation plan, obviously in hindsight, was disastrous.

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: Which one?

S. O'BRIEN: Your evacuation plan before -- when you put people into the Superdome. It wasn't thought out. You got 20,000 people in there. And that you bear the brunt of the blame for some of this, a large chunk of it.

NAGIN: Look, I'll take whatever responsibility that I have to take. But let me ask you this question: When you have a city of 500,000 people, and you have a category 5 storm bearing down on you, and you have the best you've ever done is evacuate 60 percent of the people out of the city, and you have never issued a mandatory evacuation in the city's history, a city that is a couple of hundred years old, I did that. I elevated the level of distress to the citizens.

And I don't know what else I could do, other than to tell them that it's a mandatory evacuation. And if they stayed, make sure you have a frigging ax in your home, where you can bust out the roof just in case the water starts flowing.

And as a last resort, once this thing is above a category 3, there are no buildings in this city to withstand a category 3, a category 4 or a category 5 storm, other than the Superdome. That's where we sent people as a shelter of last resort. When that filled up, we sent them to the Convention Center. Now, you tell me what else we could have done.

S. O'BRIEN: What has Secretary Chertoff promised you? What has Donald Rumsfeld given you and promised you?

NAGIN: Look, I've gotten promises to -- I can't stand anymore promises. I don't want to hear anymore promises. I want to see stuff done. And that's why I'm so happy that the president came down here, because I think they were feeding him a line of bull also. And they were telling him things weren't as bad as it was.

He came down and saw it, and he put a general on the field. His name is General Honore. And when he hit the field, we started to see action.

And what the state was doing, I don't frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate.

And then, the president and the governor sat down. We were in Air Force One. I said, 'Mr. President, Madam Governor, you two have to get in sync. If you don't get in sync, more people are going to die.'

S. O'BRIEN: What date was this? When did you say that? When did you say...

NAGIN: Whenever air Force One was here.

S. O'BRIEN: OK.

NAGIN: And this was after I called him on the telephone two days earlier. And I said, 'Mr. President, Madam Governor, you two need to get together on the same page, because of the lack of coordination, people are dying in my city.'

S. O'BRIEN: That's two days ago.

NAGIN: They both shook -- I don't know the exact date. They both shook their head and said yes. I said, 'Great.' I said, 'Everybody in this room is getting ready to leave.' There was senators and his cabinet people, you name it, they were there. Generals. I said, 'Everybody right now, we're leaving. These two people need to sit in a room together and make a doggone decision right now.'

S. O'BRIEN: And was that done?

NAGIN: The president looked at me. I think he was a little surprised. He said, "No, you guys stay here. We're going to another section of the plane, and we're going to make a decision."

He called me in that office after that. And he said, "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor." I said -- and I don't remember exactly what. There were two options. I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision.

S. O'BRIEN: You're telling me the president told you the governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision?

NAGIN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Regarding what? Bringing troops in?

NAGIN: Whatever they had discussed. As far as what the -- I was abdicating a clear chain of command, so that we could get resources flowing in the right places.

S. O'BRIEN: And the governor said no.

NAGIN: She said that she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen, and more people died.
Times-Picayune

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/print076943.html

Sunday, September 04, 2005

Nagin said slow response cost lives
Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005 7:57 p.m.
Frustrated and grieving, Mayor Ray Nagin on Sunday again ripped
the painfully slow response of state and federal
authorities to the plight of tens of thousands of
stranded New Orleanians in the days following
Hurricane Katrina, saying their inaction cost lives
and caused needless misery.
Nagin singled out Gov. Kathleen Blanco for criticism,
saying that the governor had asked for 24 hours to
think over a decision when time was a luxury that no
one, especially refugees, had.
"When the president and the governor got here, I said,
'Mr. President, Madame Governor, you two have to get
in synch. If you don't, more people are going to die."
Blanco and Bush met privately at his insistence, Nagin
said, after which Bush came out and told Nagin that he
had given Blanco two options, and she requested a full
day to decide.
"It would have been great if we could have walked off
Air Force One and told the world we had it all worked
out," Nagin said. "It didn't happen, and more people
died."
Police spokesman Capt. Marlon Defillo said Sunday that
"about a dozen" corpses were being taken out of the
Superdome. The convention center "has not been swept
yet," he said.
Apart from the deaths, Nagin said people needlessly
suffered, particularly at the Dome.
"There was suffering at an unprecedented level in this
city, at this place and at the convention center," he
said. "This is one of the richest countries in the
world. I'm looking at my city and I see death and
destruction, and I see a lot of it. And I'm pissed."
Nagin said while much of the suffering was borne by
poor people, it would be a mistake to think it was
limited to the poor.
"When the final script is written, they're going to
see that everyone suffered," he said. "Not just black
people - white people, Hispanics, people from Italy.
At the convention center, you had tourists, you had
people from hospitals, you had a mixture of people."
Asked whether he himself bore responsibility for the
debacle, Nagin responded: "I'll take what
responsibility I have to take. But let me ask you
this: When you have a city of 500,000 people, and you
have a Category 5 bearing down on you, and the best
you've ever done is evacuate 60 percent of the people…
and there's never been a mandatory evacuation in this
city's history.
"I did that, and I elevated the level of stress to the
citizens. I said to make sure you have a fricking axe
in your house. And as a last resort, there are no
buildings in the city to withstand a Category 3 storm
other than the Superdome, and when that filled up, we
started sending them to the convention center. You
tell me what else I was supposed to do."
Nagin said the government needs to learn quickly from
its nightmarishly slow reaction to Katrina.
"Our response to a significant disaster is appalling,"
he said. "What went down is a national and state
disgrace."
The mayor said his next fear is that the decomposing
bodies of those who died in the storm and its wake
will spread disease, via mosquitoes, across the region
if the corpses aren't picked up soon. Again, he feels
the response has lagged.
"I requested a crop duster as soon as possible," the
mayor said. "I still don't see a plane flying.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:32 AM

Thanks Woody. Another three yards and you'll have a touchdown.

Aside from throwing around yards and yards, what point is it that you are seeking to make?

A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:34 AM

From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 06 - 10:00 PM

Snipers, Duck?????

Oh, Fox never got around to retracting the "Snipers Lie"...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html

Sniper fire halts hospital evacuation
Gunmen fire at medical workers and patients at Charity Hospital

Thursday, September 1, 2005; Posted: 5:36 p.m. EDT (21:36 GMT)

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- The evacuation of patients from Charity Hospital was halted Thursday after the facility came under sniper fire twice.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4828774

Looting, Snipers Mar New Orleans Evacuation

All Things Considered, September 1, 2005 · The situation in New Orleans continues to deteriorate, with widespread flooding and looting. The evacuation of thousands of people from the Superdome in the city was halted early Thursday when shots were fired at military helicopters. There are reports of armed carjackings.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:36 AM

It oughta tell y'all something about your government: It's impossible to get a straight answer outta the fu#kers.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM

Thanks, Woody...

If you'll reread yer War "n Peace lenght cut an' post you'll find testimony from Ray Naygan that supports the very argument I have made here that has never been refuted...

But that's going to make you real yer own cut 'n paste which I know is bothersome...

Yo, Rufe,

Relevance, por favor, to the discusssion, pal... You make a convincing and reasonable argument for why your question is related to Bush's failures an' I'll be glad to answer it but for you to just create red herrings, like P-Gator being a spokesman (which I never suggetsed) for the folks of New Orleans, is just your way of trying to create distractions... You know, like the quotes you are gleefully posting from thngs I've said over the course of this long thread...

Bottom line, you can post another list of quotes but gues what???

Give up???

None of these quotes shows that I have devioated one inch from the original argument that I put forward and for which I am still awaiting a reasonable-- meaning being relevant and at least somewhat informed-- rebuttal...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:58 AM

Lies & Distortions: MSM Made A Mess Of Katrina Coverage
September 27, 2005
http://66.154.39.102/archives/2005/09/27/173834.php

The title is the understatement of the year. While I was working in the Astrodome, Kit was keeping me up-to-date on what was going on in the media. Some of it raised my ire to fever pitch (as displayed in my curse-laden rant about the race-baiting), but most of it left me scratching my head.

The rumors of the atrocities being committed in the Superdome were too far-fetched, unsubstantiated, and gruesome to be believed. I personally hated the thought of all blacks being painted with such a sordid brush. That's not because I was in some kind of naive denial, but because I simply didn't believe it of the people of New Orleans - or anyone, for that matter! Plus, I was among the Superdome evacuees everyday and every night, and everyone told me their stories. It was bad and pitiful and scary, but if the rapes and murders were going on like Nagin and his police chief sobbed to a teary Oprah, there is NO WAY there wouldn't have been evidence of such.

I remember having that exact conversation with Kit, as she filled me in on the MSM's frenzy. I had the phone pressed to my ear to try and hear above the constant din inside the Astrodome. I kept saying, "No. No way!" as Kit enumerated one rumor after another that was being reported by the press as FACT. I didn't believe it then, and now we all know it was BS.

The MSM is now forced to report on it's own irresponsibility in sensationalizing Katrina's aftermath. An article yesterday in the Seattle Times, Reports Of Anarchy At Superdome Overstated states: "The vast majority of reported atrocities committed by evacuees at the Dome — murders, rapes and beatings — have turned out to be false, or at least unsupported by any evidence." Really?? How false?

How many dead bodies in the Superdome?

Reported: 200
Actual: 6 (4 died from natural causes, 1 from a drug overdose, and 1 apparent suicide)

How many murders inside the Superdome & Convention Center?

Reported: 40-50
Actual: Superdome = 0, Convention Center = 1

    Orleans Parish District Attorney Eddie Jordan said authorities have only confirmed four murders in the entire city in the aftermath of Katrina — making it a typical week in a city that anticipated more than 200 homicides this year.

The MSM rumor mill, at its peak, was churning out "news" such as:

    ...news of unspeakable acts poured out of the nation's media: People firing at helicopters trying to save them; women, children and even babies raped with abandon; people murdered for food and water; a 7-year-old raped and killed at the Convention Center.

    Police, according to their chief, Eddie Compass, found themselves in multiple shootouts inside both shelters, and were forced to race toward muzzle flashes through the dark to disarm the criminals; snipers fired at doctors and soldiers from downtown high-rises.

    In interviews with Oprah Winfrey, Compass reported rapes of "babies," and Mayor Ray Nagin spoke of "hundreds of armed gang members killing and raping people" inside the Dome. Other unidentified evacuees told of children stepping over so many bodies "we couldn't count."

    The picture that emerged was one of the impoverished, overwhelmingly African-American masses of flood victims resorting to utter depravity, randomly attacking each other, as well as the police trying to protect them and the rescue workers trying to save them. The mayor told Winfrey the crowd has descended to an "almost animalistic state."

Look at who is starting and perpetuating the rumors and mass panic - the police chief and ever-incompetent mayor!! I have to ask- is this a case of racial self-hatred? Why was it so easy for those guys to feed hysterical rumors of "animalistic" black evacuees? I hardly need to say that if they had been white, such generalizations would've gotten them arrested for HATE SPEECH!

Let's take a look at the feeble CYA excuses from both Compass and Nagin, for the mass mis-characterization of their own people. Keep in mind the damage has already been done, but this is what they offer in the way of explanation:

    "The information I had at the time, I thought it was credible," Compass said, admitting his earlier statements were false. Asked the source of the information, Compass said he didn't remember.

    Nagin frankly acknowledged he doesn't know the extent of the mayhem that occurred inside the Superdome and the Convention Center — and may never. "I'm having a hard time getting a good body count," he said.

    Compass conceded that rumor had overtaken, and often crippled, authorities' response to reported lawlessness, sending badly needed resources to situations that turned out not to exist.

Much needed resources were diverted on wild-goose chases - really. As if there weren't enough problems, the city leadership created more, vastly worse conditions, because of their own asininity. With such feeble-minded nincompoops in charge of New Orleans, is there any question at all why chaos reigned? And I can't wait to hear what Oprah has to say about her overt help in the creation of an "animalistic" stereotype of her own people in the aftermath of Katrina. That deserves an Emmy, don't ya think?

    Military, law-enforcement and medical workers agree that the flood of evacuees — about 30,000 at the Dome and an estimated 10,000 to 20,000 at the Convention Center — overwhelmed their security personnel.

    The 400 to 500 soldiers in the Dome could have been easily overrun by increasingly agitated crowds in the Dome, but that never happened, said Col. James Knotts, a mid-level commander there. While the Convention Center saw plenty of mischief, including massive looting and isolated gunfire, and many inside cowered in fear, the hordes of evacuees for the most part did not resort to violence.

Oh well. Nevermind the truth. I have to add, that at this point in the story, while National Guardsmen were patrolling the Superdome, they were being vilified by the press as randomly shooting people in the streets. I heard one rumor in the Astrodome about a 16 year old boy approaching some soldiers for help and being shot in the head for his trouble. Why is such a lie so easy for the media to believe and report? Because, in the mass media's value system, American soldiers are murderers and criminals. This goes back to the hysterical reporting of so-called tortures and murders - but that's another story we've already covered ad nauseum.

Let me tell you what the evacuees in the Astrodome were saying about the media's coverage - they started to believe it. I can't tell you how many times I heard someone curse Bush for his "hatred of blacks" (thanks for that crap legacy, Kanye) or mutter about the country's "abandonment" of our poor blacks. It made me sick to my stomach, but with the way the media was pounding away at those themes, it was impossible to refute!

In an article today in the LA Times, Katrina Takes A Toll On Truth, News Accuracy confirms more of the media's irresponsibility in reporting unconfirmed rumors as FACT.

    The National Guard spokesman's [MAJ Ed Bush's] accounts about rescue efforts, water supplies and first aid all but disappeared amid the roar of a 24-hour rumor mill at New Orleans' main evacuation shelter. Then a frenzied media recycled and amplified many of the unverified reports.

    "It just morphed into this mythical place where the most unthinkable deeds were being done," Bush said Monday of the Superdome.

    His assessment is one of several in recent days to conclude that newspapers and television exaggerated criminal behavior in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, particularly at the overcrowded Superdome and Convention Center.

    The New Orleans Times-Picayune on Monday described inflated body counts, unverified "rapes," and unconfirmed sniper attacks as among examples of "scores of myths about the dome and Convention Center treated as fact by evacuees, the media and even some of New Orleans' top officials."

So, let's play the blame game for a sec. Who does the media blame for their shoddy, sensationalistic rag reporting? Why, the telephones, of course:

    Journalists and officials who have reviewed the Katrina disaster blamed the inaccurate reporting in large measure on the breakdown of telephone service, which prevented dissemination of accurate reports to those most in need of the information. Race may have also played a factor.

I emphasized that last sentence because it was slipped in there as if the authors almost wanted the reader to overlook it. But that single statement is probably the most truth that's come out of the media in a looooooong time. Yes, of course, race played a factor. Racial prejudice is what lay at the root of the media's creation of the myth of blacks in New Orleans as out-of-control "animals". The reports coming out of New Orleans highlighted the racial prejudice of the reporters THEMSELVES! All that race-baiting they were doing, "Bush hates blacks", etc., was really nothing more than a sanctimonious cover for their own deeply-seated prejudices!

And in the case of Nagin, Compass, and Oprah - what is their excuse? What made it so damn easy for them to instantly believe those grossest of rumors, when someone like me [a bad old Whitey] heard them and immediately said, "No way!"? Don't even get me started on asshats Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and all that stupid talk about the holds of slave ships. All those self-anointed black leader from Oprah to Compass to Jackson need to look deep inside at the ugly truth - they dealt their own people mortal PR wounds. They, themselves, set their own "movement" back about 200 years. How much sunshine and daisies will they have to produce to overcome the animalistic stereotype of their own people that they created out of thin air?!!!!

    Times-Picayune Editor Jim Amoss cited telephone breakdowns as a primary cause of reporting errors, but said the fact that most evacuees were poor African Americans also played a part.

    "If the dome and Convention Center had harbored large numbers of middle class white people," Amoss said, "it would not have been a fertile ground for this kind of rumor-mongering."

    Some of the hesitation that journalists might have had about using the more sordid reports from the evacuation centers probably fell away when New Orleans' top officials seemed to confirm the accounts.

Yes, yes, yes - we got that now. But... what of the liberal media itself? What does their overtly sensationalized reporting say about them?

    Hyperbolic reporting spread through much of the media.

    Fox News, a day before the major evacuation of the Superdome began, issued an "alert" as talk show host Alan Colmes reiterated reports of "robberies, rapes, carjackings, riots and murder. Violent gangs are roaming the streets at night, hidden by the cover of darkness."

    The Los Angeles Times adopted a breathless tone the next day in its lead news story, reporting that National Guard troops "took positions on rooftops, scanning for snipers and armed mobs as seething crowds of refugees milled below, desperate to flee. Gunfire crackled in the distance."

    The New York Times repeated some of the reports of violence and unrest, but the newspaper usually was more careful to note that the information could not be verified.

    The tabloid Ottawa Sun reported unverified accounts of "a man seeking help gunned down by a National Guard soldier" and "a young man run down and then shot by a New Orleans police officer."

    London's Evening Standard invoked the future-world fantasy film "Mad Max" to describe the scene and threw in a "Lord of the Flies" allusion for good measure.

How on earth does the media think they have an ounce of credibility with anyone anymore? They got caught up in their own hype and frenzy! It was an ugly self-perpetuating cycle.

I saw it happen again with the non-stop Rita coverage. There was that same breathless, eager overtone to ALL the reports of Rita's path of destruction. I know - the media lives for this stuff. Death and destruction are the money shots for them. They're always thinkin', "Show me the money!"

But for you liberal moonbats out there - doesn't this stop you short when you listen to the news reports coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan?! I mean, c'mon - you simply cannot believe the absolute crap the media reports as truth.

The media's hidden biases have been exposed by Katrina the way nothing else could have. In the case of the New Orleans coverage - Katrina exposed the majority of the media as racist bastards, at a time when they were calling the rest of red America "racists". Is that a generalization? Hell yeah, it is! And a fair one, too- supported by the actions and shenanigans of the media itself!

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 09:18 AM

Then I sneak out to Mudcat when them's is asleep and light stink bombs here in the Catbox... I know I shouldn't do it but

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 03:45 PM

Yeah, the press certainly didn't have a clue... Not that this has anything to do with the discussion at hand but, hey, I was in Thaxton, Mississippi the week of Katrina at a buddy's recording studio recording my current CD and, well, my buddy is a FOX kinda guy... An' for two days straight FOX was reporting that snipers were shooting at doctors and nurses trying to help people at the hospitals??? Yeah, you could almost set yer watch by it... Seemed every 15 minutes it would be another report of sniper shootings...

Now, I'm not much on FOX so upon returning to Virginia I went back to my usual news sources, i.e. The Washington Post, New York Times, Pacifica and the internet... By then the sniper stories had been fairly well debunked... Not too sure how much time FOX spent telling its folks that those stories had been debuynked but I'd bet it wasn't near as much as how much coverage they gave the stories during my week in Mississippi...

Now back to Bobert patiently awaiting any intellegent rebuttal from the Bush apologists...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

BObert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:44 PM

So Fox was reportin the same things as da other networks?

If they is propagandists like O'Bobert says, which by tha way is a deveeation fromm the parables laid down by himself, they should've been reporting somethin difernt.

Now O'bobert can go back to sleep cause these Bush apologists he thinks exist don't exist. Theys tha fig newton of tha imagination of liberal wackos.

Unless he wants to answer the perfecly Katrina related question about how FEMA got to be Part of DHS and where did DHS come from. An no he didn't already answer that one. You keep yappin about Bus did this to FEAM but ya sirts aroun any factc about why it wus changed around from the old Clintoon glory days.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:19 AM

Will be glad to, Rufe, once you have told the Peanut Gallery why such an inquiry is relevant to this discussion???

Back to Fox... The problem I had with FOX is the repetetive nature of the story... Repetitiveness is the cornerstone of brain-washing... When my buddy was doing other stuff I changed the channels the other networks weren't hung up on just this one aspect of the story...

I mean, there was alot of stuff going on to spend so much time on the one story which, face it, plays to the angry white guy base of the Republican Party...

Oh, an' BTW, if yer a dad, happy father's day...

O'Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:29 AM

#1 How many times has O'bobert refered to DHS an FEMA? Changes to FEMA? Back to tha Clintoon years? I gess he thinks they is revent when he want to bring up hiz own talkin points but he won't elaborate when it might bring some new ligh on the subjict of hiz choosin'


#2 Exzample of O'Boberts brain washin:

"Yeah, Junior loves to pimp out his chest "
"Bush has pumped out his chest and sid over and over and over"
"and chest pumpin' out"
"Bush goes about pumping out his chest"
"go 'round the country pumpin; out one's chest boasting"
"Bush loved to pump out his chest and proclaim"
"from pumping out his chest saying"
"Bush didn't mind pumping out his chest"
"a liar who pumped out his chest"

Kin you documint where he pimped out hiz chest or do you think we is supposed to think yer rhetoric as a fact? I thinks you iz tha puffy one.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:24 PM

You still haven't answered the question, Rufe... Might of fact the more you play yer little rope-a-dope game here the more it would appear that the question the organizational history of FEMA that you keep asking is yet another of yer red herrings...

Relevance, por favor...

As fir Bush pumping out his chest, hey, unless you are either barin dead or just landed from a far away planet there is no doubt that Bush has boasted over and over and over about how "it is my [his] job to protect the American people"...

Do you deny this???

Yes ___

No ____

Let's face it, ol' Rufer, yer position, whatever it is, is getting weaker and weaker with additional post...

Pushing 600 posts and still not one intellegent rebuttal???

Hmmmmmmmm, Part 127???

O'Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:23 PM

I agree he said his job is to pertect the American people, you too, even tho you focus yore destructive lazer beam on him in yore narry little mind.

I don't member him pumpin out hiz chest at any time. An it didn't sound like no boast ta me. That's in yore mind. Jus some o yore retric that ya like ta add to tha facts and repeat it over an over so as to brain wash folks inta thinkin its fact.

An ya can repeat "not one intellegent rebuttal" bout a hundred times or so an it ain't gona make what don't exist, exist. Ain't nobody goint to disputerate them fax ya dug up. What ya is gonna find is folks that objects to havin the local inept, corruted govnmint / first responders exonerated, gardless of whether you claim it ain't in the opening whatever or in the limits thet you have declared. If Katrina in tha name then anythin about Katrina is on topic.

Ya don't mind getin off topic long enuf to rant bout Fox news do ya?

No iz there any other question I done missed? If not spoze you start 'splainin bout how FEMA got screwed up cause ya haz talked bout DHS an FEMA umpteen times but only the parts ya needs to prove your nanometer wide needle point Bush attack that you thinks makes you so smart to conjure up.

An then ya acuze others of missin tha big piccure. Sheeit. A ant would go blind tryin to see yore piccure.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:35 PM

he Nationwide Plan Review, ordered by President George W. Bush and Congress, examined whether the emergency plans of cities and states were adequate to manage another tragedy.

"The majority of the nation's current emergency operations plans and planning processes cannot be characterized as fully sufficient to manage catastrophic events," the report said.

"Significant weaknesses in evacuation planning are an area of profound concern," it said, adding that the capabilities to receive and care of large numbers of evacuees were found to be "inadequate."

The Department of Homeland Security said in a statement: "Most areas of the country are well-prepared to handle standard situations."

But the review findings "demonstrate the need for all levels of government across the country to improve emergency operations plans for catastrophic events such as a major terrorist attack or (top) category-five hurricane strike," it said.

"Several areas, including evacuation, attention to populations with special needs, command structure and resource management, were areas needing significant attention," it said.

The report also lists measures the federal government needs to take to improve and coordinate disaster planning.

The findings "unequivocally support the need to modernize planning processes, products and tools, and to move our national emergency planning efforts to the next level needed for catastrophic events," said George Foresman, the department's under-secretary for preparedness.

...

From the Physics Org.comn daily release

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:57 PM

Yeah, Amos, I read this in the Past this past weekend...

Seems that American cities aren't up to evacuatin' inspite of National Response Plans and all the boastin' by the Bushites about what a great job they've done in making the country safer...

They haven't done jack...

Oh yeah, R%ufe the Goof will argue that local governments are the problem but, no...

... local govrenments are having to take up the slack in paying for stuff that feds, under Bush, says they ain't interested in funding anymore... First repsonders included...

Yeah, Bush can talk the talk but he ain't into walkin' the walk... He has cut, cut, cut federal money that has traditionally gone beack to the state and local governemtns to fund is absolutely stupid and evil war against the Iraqi people, mostly women and children....

And he's made danegd sure that his campaign contributors have been taken care of very well...

So, seems there's just not a lot of money left for the states, otehr than pork barrel projects for thisd Republican House of Reps. folks to try to buy another couple of years of corrupt power...

Yo, Rufe... Had a terrorist cell devistated any American city, lets say with a nuclear device, Bush wouldn't have been anymore prepared... He has talked a good game but bottom line, his folks haven't doen the heavy lifting that is required to put real operational plans in place...

This is the crux of my citicism of the Bush administration...

After 9/11 they had a wonderful opportunity bothe here and abroad to be a great adminstration but they choze to raid the the treasury rather than do what needed to be done...

Period...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:05 AM

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29513

The Wrong FEMA Fix By Greg Anrig, Jr.

The entire 749-page report of the Collins-Lieberman Committee is now available and it's the most comprehensive chronicle to date synthesizing every mind-boggling failure you've heard about and many, many more. It lacks the stylistic virtues of the 9/11 Commission report, but it's pretty riveting reading nonetheless. Unfortunately, the committee's most important recommendation is completely wrongheaded, as the report itself demonstrates. Instead of retaining the agency's functions within the Department of Homeland Security while renaming it as the National Preparedness and Response Authority – yeah, that'll work much better! -- FEMA should be restored to its pre-DHS incarnation as a separate cabinet-level agency accountable directly to the president.

section break

Many of the reasons why FEMA's capabilities deteriorated so badly are directly attributable to its inclusion within DHS (recognizing that the selection of crony Joe Allbaugh as its initial pre-9/11 director started the downward spiral in a big way). Here are a few examples from the report:

    * After FEMA became part of DHS, Secretaries Ridge and Chertoff removed "preparedness" responsibilities from FEMA. Those activities, which include planning and conducting exercises as well as establishing standards, in the past helped to create effective working relationships between FEMA's staff and state and local officials. They also helped everyone to be on the same page when an actual emergency arose. Peeling off those responsibilities and the people who carry them out left FEMA with workers who had a less immediate grasp of whatever plans had been made. Relationships with state and local responders disappeared in the process. Several long-time FEMA officials said that separating the preparedness functions was a huge mistake, and it wouldn't have happened in the absence of turf battles initiated by the creation of DHS.
    * The highly successful emphasis in the 1990s on an "all-hazards" approach – one in which emergency preparation and response is organized to function the same regardless of the exact nature of particular disaster – dissipated. As part of a department created to focus on terrorism, FEMA's historical mission of dealing almost exclusively with problems created by Mother Nature became diluted by worrying about dirty bombs, sarin attacks, and so forth. It's still possible to retain an all-hazards approach in the context of preparing for terrorism as well -- the committee recommends as much – but the reality is that almost everything FEMA does still relates to a natural disaster. Situating it in an anti-terrorism department has had the effect of excessively complicating the agency's mission.
    * The report is filled with stories about how FEMA was unable to get adequate funding for staff, procurement, communications, logistics and so forth. That is unsurprising since its move to DHS has made it a small fish in a massive bureaucracy. When FEMA was a cabinet-level agency, with the director having the ear of the president, inadequate funding and staff vacancies were much less of a problem.

FEMA used to work about as well as a government agency can, and nothing about 9/11 justified turning a silk purse into a sow's ear. The Committee report continues to talk about all the wonderful "synergies" that keeping FEMA – or NPRA, whatever – in DHS will generate. Synergy was a word that the very same people who pushed for the creation of DHS in the first place used a lot at the time. But so far, we've had nothing but whatever the opposite of synergy is. People who know what they're talking about like Richard Clarke and James Lee Witt think we should save FEMA from DHS, potentially saving a lot of lives in the process. Brownie at least admitted his mistakes, and now Bush, Collins, and Lieberman should admit theirs.