BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...

Subject: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 08:30 PM

Thank you, Joe, for putting the "other" Tea Party thread to sleep... It was way past due...

But there are still issues related to the Tea party so I am cranking up yet another thread for folks who might want to offer their comments...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 10:41 PM

It's correctly called the "Pee Potty", Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 10:44 PM

That is not meant as anything derogatory, but what the guys at coffee (70 and up) are calling the whole thing these days. And yes, they are from all sides of the political spectrum, including one old Commie.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 10:47 PM

What??? MORE???????????

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:00 PM

Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, including an excessive need for approval, usually beginning in early adulthood. These individuals are lively, dramatic, enthusiastic, and flirtatious.

They may express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and be easily influenced by others. Associated features may include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs.

People with this disorder are usually able to function at a high level and can be successful socially and professionally. People with histrionic personality disorder usually have good social skills, but they tend to use these skills to manipulate other people and become the center of attention.

Histrionic personality disorder may affect a person's social or romantic relationships or their ability to cope with losses or failures.

They often fail to see their own personal situation realistically, instead tending to dramatize and exaggerate their difficulties. They may go through frequent job changes, as they become easily bored and have trouble dealing with frustration. Because they tend to crave novelty and excitement, they may place themselves in risky situations. All of these factors may lead to greater risk of developing depression.

Additional symptoms include:

    Exhibitionist behavior.
    Constant seeking of reassurance or approval.
    Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotions.
    Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval.
    Proud of own personality, unwillingness to change and any change is viewed as a threat.
    Somatic symptoms, and using these symptoms as a means of garnering attention.
    A need to be the center of attention.
    Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification.
    Rapidly shifting emotional states that may appear superficial or exaggerated to others.
    Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are.
    Making rash decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:15 PM

I suppose the main, unifying item of the Tea Party agenda, is taxes. It seems to me that taxes are absolute anathema to the tea party people. They seem to be the primary force behind the "no new taxes" pledge that most California Republican elected officials have been forced to sign. The trouble is, it hogties the legislature and does not allow for any sort of rational restructuring of taxes, either.

I keep trying to find some logic behind the Tea Party, but it seems to be mostly slogans, and a no-prisoners-taken opposition to taxes and immigration.

Makes me yearn for the Good Old Days of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon Republicans.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:23 PM

Take a look at this (Covert Operations, The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama. By Jane Mayer August 30, 2010), if you want a good examination of the political views of the Koch brothers and their support behind the scenes of the tea party movement. It's in The New Yorker.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:25 PM

Druther have Barry Goldwater than what we have now! He was, at least, rational and cooperative.

The "Tea Party" is currently self-destructing. Nothing can hold together when there is no real structural elements to hold it in place. Propaganda and slogans only work for a while -- vide North Korea.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 01:05 AM

I'm told that "daddy Koch" (Fred) was a relatively poor and struggling petroleum engineer when he learned that his buddy Joe wanted some oil refineries. Fred put together a package of 19(?) refineries for delivery to Joe, and that was the beginning of Koch Industries.

Anybody want to guess who "Joe" was?

John

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 01:52 AM

The New Yorker cites the Center for American Progress and Media Matters as objective sources without mentioning they are funded by George Soros. Also the Center for Public Integrity which has been criticized for accepting large funds from George Soros.

It says the Political Economy Research Institute named Koch Industries one of the top ten air polluters in the United States. Along with Ford Motor, General Motors (mostly owned by the US Government), GE (whose CEO is Obama's Jobs Czar), Pfizer, Eastman Kodak, Sony, Honeywell, Berkshire Hathaway (owned by Obama supporter Buffet), Kimberly Clark, Anheuser Busch and Goodyear but it does not mention that they are all regulated and within the law.

Where is the hit piece on Berskhire Hathaway, GE or GM, named as one of the top ten polluters?

All that said, I am not opposed to more taxes as long as they are well spent and used to pay down the national deficit.

However I think my taxes are pissed away on pork barrel bullshit so that Politicians can fulfill their #1 objective, reelection.

Why is Greece, along with several other industrialized countries, on the verge of bankruptcy? Was it some sort of Tea Party thing? Was it a Koch Brothers type of conspiracy that did it?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:45 AM

Removing a benefit needed by people with little resources is exactly the same in effect as raising the taxes on them. They have to pay more, and have less left to live on. The "cuts" demanded by the Republicans are an increase in taxes, but only on the poor.

Refusing to pay a contracted debt is the lowest form of dishonesty, even if you decided you don't like the deal. An honest person makes the payments until a better deal agreeable to both parties is arranged. Congress (not Obama) has totally failed to show any rational control over the contracts Congress has made and now just wants to walk away from the deals "they don't like" that they, themselves have made for us.

If you can't pay the bill, obviously more income is needed while the new deal is negotiated. It is the responsibility of Congress, and ONLY of Congress, to decide what the bills are and how (NOT WHETHER) they will be paid.

The argument that lower taxes will "stimulate employment" rings rather hollw when the RBs got a substantial tax cut fairly recently and employment, in real terms, has fallen steadily since. The only reductions we've seen in unemployment have been from those who "dropped out" so that they're no longer counted. (The Nazis just sent them to jail with the same effect.)

At the rate demonstrated by the reduction in the top incremental tax rate is any indication, one more tax cut for the rich and we'll have no place left for anybody to work (except probably Wall Street). The top rate was by no means "onerous." I paid it for many years myself.

Obama, or any other President, cannot be blamed for our condition. All he can do is take the money Congress gives him and pay the bills that Congress created.

It's time for the Republicans to participate in paying the existing bills and coming up with a plan to quit taking on new ones that are less than necessary. Reducing spending is done by not taking on new bills while paying off the ones you have, for honest people: not by ignoring obligations already assumed. Reducing debt, for the government, is accomplished by equitably taking a little more money from those who have it, if that is necessary.

John

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:46 AM

The Tea Party is the logical extension of Lee Atwater's old strategy of using fake candidates to attack. At the time of the bailout the GOP was so morally bankrupt and had been caught with its hands in the cookies jar so many times that is only hope of survival and rebranding.

It is the Republican base, pissed off and renamed, led by the same people, using the same tactics.

Understand what Lee Atwater did for Bush I (Willie Horton, southern strategy) and you understand all you need to know about Tea Party strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 08:14 AM

I suppose the main, unifying item of the Tea Party agenda, is taxes.

Yup - they want to get something for nothing.

"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society." - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

in Compañia General De Tabacos De Filipinas vs. Collector of Internal Revenue, 275 U.S. 87, 100 (1927)

Holmes was hardly a member of the "far Left"

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 08:41 AM

1/3 of the Tea Party is young people who want to dismantle entitlements because they don't think they will collect. 1/3 are middle class people who think they are financially secure and who do not want to reinvest in society. 1/3 are older people who are driven by their prejudices.

When the old third realizes the trick that the other 2/3s are playing on them. The poop will hit the blower.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 09:31 AM

Come the Revolution, I'm still shooting at both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 09:53 AM

When the old third realizes the trick that the other 2/3s are playing on them. The poop will hit the blower.

The Dems, and the rational Republicans (a dying breed) have always realized that old farts are more careful to remember to vote than middle aged farts, and MAFs are more careful to do so than young farts, and have acted accordingly. The Tea Party people and the new crazy Republicans don't get it. Maybe after the next election they will.

Come the Revolution, I'm still shooting at both sides.

With the Tea Party in the picture, I may be shooting at all three.

Things will not get better as long as there are no term limits in Congress, so Congresspeople and Senators consider it a career, rather than something you do as a service, and then go away and stick someone else with it. And as long as the stupid American public votes for the candidate whose name they're most familiar with, rather than insisting on finding out the candidates' real position on the issues. The Congresspeople will always vote to please the people who will give them the most money, because they know they're guaranteed reelection as long as they can buy more advertising than the other guy.

We get what we deserve.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 09:55 AM

The Tea Party are just as angry as the rest of us. Whether the bastards robbing you are Republicans or Democrats or multinationals makes no never mind. You're still getting robbed.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:15 AM

Tea Party is not new. It is not a third party. They are warmed over Republican fringe.

The Democratic Party is the only refuge for sensible people. But keep in mind how varied their base is. It ranges from fiscal conservatives like me who see the Republicans as radical and dangerous. To "minorities", to GBT, to actual socialists. The democratic base is impossible to please. The Republican base is easy to scare.

I am a tolerant person. I am against shooting people where it can be avoided. I am not against the Democrats.

The Tea Party/Republicans lie to me about economics, bully people and try to scare old people. Should they be shot for that? No, they should be warned to stop it before the guns come out.

Take Glen Beck, one month condemning the US health care system, the next praising it in opposition to Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:27 AM

Good point about Lee Atwater. He recanted/regretted many of his dirty tricks at the end of his life, but his early self must have been the inspiration for Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. The thing about the tea party is that they are even out of Rove's control - much of it appalls him (!) - it's an overzealous movement of ideologues that is going to have to simply run its course.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 11:25 AM

SRS, I think it has run its course. The TP has made a horse's ass of itself. Really, how long did people think the Palins and her ilk last? They have blown their wad and along with it their credibility. I sewe them as little different than the third parties that emerged in the 1960s and 1970s. Perot, Chisholm, et.al.

America has problems caused by money--namely, where it is and how it got there. I see that as seminal to any discussion of politics at the federal or state level. Steal a thousand and ya go to jail. Steel a few billion and you OWN the jail where you ain't going.

As long as voting follows party lines, the American system will go as is, and the same people getting screwed by Republicans will then be screwed by Democrats. imo.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Arkie
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 01:05 PM

Why don't the rational Republicans, if there are any left, say to the Tea Party the hell with you and then go to work with Democrats to fix these problems.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 01:22 PM

Politics is about discourse and compromise. Any politician who signs a pledge never to do something - anything - disqualifies himself for the job.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 01:26 PM

...young people who want to dismantle entitlements because they don't think they will collect.

And these young geniuses haven't tumbled to the fact that that if they dismantle them, then they sure a shit won't collect?

Things will not get better as long as there are no term limits in Congress

There ARE term limits in Congress. They're called "ELECTIONS". Your quarrel is with the electorate, not the Senateors & Congresspersons.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:17 PM

"his early self must have been the inspiration for Karl Rove and Dick Cheney."

He worked together with Rove, from their college years on. Lee was a couple of years older. He was the Sith Lord. Now Rove is the master.

Cheney is a different kind of political animal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:28 PM

"There ARE term limits in Congress. They're called "ELECTIONS"."

FYI there is a difference between term limits and elections. Would you like for us to explain it to you or can you use Google by yourself? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 02:41 PM

Taxes are at a 50 year all time low.

The divide between the Uber Rich and poor middle class is at an 80 year all time high.


The pretense that the grass roots Tea Party has suddenly gotten "fed" up with these all time low taxes and want US Corporate overseas taxes to be reduced to 5% from 15... is proposterous.

But apparently the tea party claims are good enough to make Joe believe the premise that the Tea party is about taxes. Ha

Corporate money goes a long way to present their needs and wants via a tea spokesperson. The regular folks who call themselves tea whatevers, were the Republicans who suffered from the unrelenting stupidity and crimes of George W and could not bring themselves to be Democrats. They could not remain Republican. So they became Tea given that thats what FOX NEWS suggested they do with FOX TEA rallies and FOX news Hannity meetings and Dick Army websites and Koch money think tanks devising new ways to retain the religious right wing base for Republicanism under a new flag.

These are the people who can never admit how much they supported Bush and how foolish that was.

So we are left with a population of people:
who lie to themselves about how taken in they were.
who are out of work despite thier faith in Limbaugh Bush and FOX.
who were stupid enough to believe Bush & neocons.
who still at heart believe all the Limbaugh propoganda.
who are deep in their gut scared of all non whites.
And finally desperate enough to believe the tea party is the answer to thier prayers.

With all these traits concentrated under one banner and underscored with no concept at all of what drives economics and what kills it,
we have one desperate, scared, self deluded and ignorant bunch of people who are buyig as much ammunition as they can get thier hands on.

They are ready and prepared to lash out, declare anarchy, carry guns to town halls and get what they are told that they want by saying NO NO NO until the parents give in and change the Constitution.

They will NOT ONLY cut off thier nose to spite thier face but they will cut off your head or the nation's head to express the pain they feel from the disfiguring poverty they have been plunged into as the result of the 2008 crash, which is only now getting close to the real bottom.

8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888


Here are some things that the House freshmen are instrumental in cutting;

The Keck telescope has spent 5 Billion dollars but needs 2.5 billion more to finish it. Congress said "We are going to teach you a lesson about spending too much money!"   So thats 5 Billion wasted.

The FAA CR was ignored so 77,000 jobs were canceled. Tea Congress knew that Reagan fired air traffic controllers so they were being like Reagan. Trouble was the controllers are not involved, the workers furloughed are the construction workers and tax collectors who collect money from airlines. The taxes that go uncllected everyday is about 22 million dollars to this minute.

They cut anything to do with college assitance for the non wealthy.
They want to cut anything as long as its part of the Federal Government. Oops they even cut assistence to thier own State.
The House has failed pass 4 of thier own bills because they do not have the talented people who know how to write them or a leader who knows how to pass them.

Whats new is the House is dysfunctional en masse to a degree never seen before. Why? Maybe it was home schooling, maybe it was because the money given these guys to run was done without vetting. Even the Senate had Angle and McDonnel running.

Whats improved can be seen with your own eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:15 PM

I was no fan of William F. Buckley, Jr. (founder and editor of The National Review and host of the television show, "Firing Line"), but he could be considered an "intellectual." Perhaps even the intellectual among Conservatives.

I am given to wonder what his view of the current Republican intransigence on the budget might be. I think he would be very distressed by the behavior of his own party. And the Tea Party? Probably that they are lowering the intelligence level and raising the volume of the Republican Party, neither of which he would approved of.

And of George W. Bush? Buckley would have been absolutely appalled!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:24 PM

Buckley would first be pleased that the wealth of the Republic was concentrated in the hands of 400 men which have as much money as 60% of the entire population fo the USA. He would be pleased that pesky unions are being disbanded with the wave of Republican Govenors hands.

He would be distressed however that with the exception of prisons, privatized toll roads, privatized lake and ocean shores, privatized federal government,
there is not enough employed taxable wage slaves to tax enough in order to entitle the rich with a nation worth living in.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:34 PM

And that is, indeed, why I was no fan of his.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 04:24 PM

There is a case to be made that the Tea-O-Crat Party are fiscal terrorists. They are out to destroy government as we know it (The government of the United States), along with the Obama administration and replace it with a peculiar brand of theocracy, evidenced by their hyper-Calvinist obsession with cutting spending, which is well needed now to stimulate a jobless economy.

It is fitting the Theocrat Michelle Bachman is a religious figurehead followed by the rest of the congressmen who headed to the chapel to pray rather than vote for Obama's compromise.

I don't think Obama's compromise, that cuts SS, Medicare and Medicaid, taking the 1% rich elite off the hook is such a great deal either.

The Tea-O-Crat Party are the naughty bully boys in the schoolyard, claiming an ideology that's holier-than-thou even when they worship at the altar of Ayn Paul Ryan Rand.

Rourke blew up his own building and Ryan and Norquist have the same idea in mind.

Remember that out of the ashes often comes more ashes.

Solution is simple. C.C.C., W.P.A., bail out the screwed-over mortgage holders, pass the damn Ceiling without tying it to the cynical Repub politicking, and leave the New Deal in tact.

What ever happened to rational conservatives?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 05:50 PM

Well, I think they probably all died with Buckley. He was a hard-charging Conservative, but he was smart enough to know that the picnic isn't going to last very long if you don't feed the cow, milk her dry, and then starting cutting steaks off of her.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:57 PM

FYI there is a difference between term limits and elections.

YA THINK, JACK?

You're missing the point. If the electorate is dissatisfied with an elected official, or doesn't want "career politicians" {Aside: what is inherently wrong with those who chose politica sa a carer?] all they need do is vote 'em out.

"Term Limits" are unnecessary & redundant & an artificial construct- another "bumber sticker solution"

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:25 PM

I like watching "Morning, Joe" on MSNBC in the mornings because it gives me a perspective of Republican-think but found this morning's show quite revealing in that Joe and Co. agreed that the Tea Party members of the House are "simply crazy"... Joe's words...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 12:01 AM

I met a woman who, like me, sometimes sells at craft shows. Said lady told me the Tea Party had a table near hers at some community festival. They were all older and all white. My friend pointed every family of color at the Tea Party's table, explaining that they were handing out free balloons. Chortle.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:05 AM

Sawzaw, Your post: "From: Sawzaw
                   Date: 28 Jul 11 - 11:00 PM"
Is correct, and accurate. You've done your homework! I'm impressed!

Wouldn't it be great if those who needed to know that their 'slip is showing' could take it in?!?!

In regards to the Tea Party,..it won't matter anyway..as I said in another post dealing with the debt ceiling, what is going to come out of this, is the U.S., with all its 'two party compromises', will end up with the government handing over receivership of the debt to an 'international, globalist banking concern'....and everybody will go away 'happy'....and go away, with absolute rule, and control of our country, and under their rules. This IS and will be the result of the corruption of our 'representative' government. We have, for sometime now, had our 'representatives' not representing the 'will of the people'...but rather, acting as brokers, in regards to the 'laws' they back, and for what reason.....the highest bidder.
The Tea Party rank and file is mostly comprised of regular folks who thought they had nowhere else to turn. The Kosh's merely cashed in, with their efforts to gain control of them. As it stands now, there is NO group truly representing the people.....and by the way, as a country, we have already collapsed....and have not been informed fully, as of yet!
Just stay tuned, and watch...you'll see!
Meanwhile, I'm sure many of those lagging behind, will still be pointing fingers, at one party or the other...as designed...to keep reality from being addressed! As it stands now, we are in a world of hurt, and the ONLY thing keeping it afloat, is whatever 'remnants' of 'hope' you can muster up!.....until it's used up!!
You'll see!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 12:23 PM

To: [e-mail]

Lisa Lerer's article http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-26/republican-leaders-voted-for-drivers-of-u-s-debt-they-now-blame-on-obama.html under the heading of News is a glaring example of Bias in the media. It is not news. It is on a level with opinions posted in a Blog.

Her tement that: "TARP, the $700-billion bailout of banks, insurance and auto companies, has cost less than expected. McConnell, Boehner, Cantor and Ryan all voted in October 2008 for the program, which stoked the rise of the Tea Party movement." Is *intellectually dishonest because you left out the names of the Democrats that voted for TARP including Obama, Biden, Clinton, Reid and 35 other Democrats in the Senate that voted for the final version and passed the bill. Also of pertinence is the fact that 25 Republicans voted Nay vs 8 Democrats.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00212

Senator Obama said it was "a necessary thing to do"

YEAs ---74 ~ 39 Democrat   34 Republican    1 Independent

Obama (D-IL) Biden (D-DE) Clinton (D-NY) Byrd (D-WV) Reid (D-NV)
Schumer (D-NY) Boxer (D-CA) Dodd (D-CT) Kerry (D-MA) Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Bingaman (D-NM) Brown (D-OH) Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE) Casey (D-PA) Conrad (D-ND) Durbin (D-IL) Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA) Inouye (D-HI) Klobuchar (D-MN) Kohl (D-WI) Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lincoln (D-AR) McCaskill (D-MO) Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-NE) Pryor (D-AR) Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV) Salazar (D-CO) Webb (D-VA) Whitehouse (D-RI)

Lieberman (ID-CT)

Alexander (R-TN) Bennett (R-UT) Bond (R-MO) Burr (R-NC) Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK) Coleman (R-MN) Collins (R-ME) Corker (R-TN) Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID) Domenici (R-NM) Ensign (R-NV) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH) Hagel (R-NE) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX) Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) Murkowski (R-AK)
McConnell (R-KY) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH) Thune (R-SD) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---25 ~ 15 Republican 8 Democrat 1 Independent

Allard (R-CO) Barrasso (R-WY) Brownback (R-KS) Bunning (R-KY)
Cochran (R-MS) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) Dole (R-NC) Enzi (R-WY)
Inhofe (R-OK) Roberts (R-KS) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL) Vitter (R-LA)
Wicker (R-MS)

Sanders (I-VT)

Cantwell (D-WA) Dorgan (D-ND) Feingold (D-WI) Johnson (D-SD) Landrieu (D-LA)
Nelson (D-FL) Stabenow (D-MI) Tester (D-MT) Wyden (D-OR)

* The conscious omission of aspects of the truth known or believed to be relevant in the particular context.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:03 PM

She seems to have backed up her statements with hard data.

She certainly has more than proved this assertion.

Republican Leaders Voted for Debt Drivers They Blame on Obama

She also balanced that by quoting someone saying that the Democrats were to blame as well. She also let this piece of Bull Shit go unchallenged "Blaming Bush for the structural deficits we've known would come since the early 1990s is beyond irresponsible."

In a world where no one is blaming Blaming Bush for the structural deficits and the people who voted for

"Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts and Medicare prescription drug benefits. They also voted for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, that rescued financial institutions and the auto industry. "

Are being blamed for CONTRIBUTING TO THE DEFICIT.

Keep in mind that Bloomberg is a paid financial news subscription service designed for money people. If Congressmen are being hypocritical about money. That is news. Especially if they are wasting all that special interest money that got them elected by looking like idiots to the US people.

They are acting like unselfaware idiots. Bloomberg is simply reporting that fact.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:05 PM

History of the Tea Party Movement

New Political Movement Quickly Finds Loyal Following

by Beth Rowen

Since its inception in February 2009, the Tea Party movement—with the help of viral videos and social networking sites, such as Facebook and Twitter—almost instantly found a large and loyal following that has gained traction and supporters.

In fact, Gallup poll in late March 2010 revealed that 28% of Americans have a positive perception of the Tea Party movement.

CNBC's Rick Santelli is widely credited with launching the grassroots movement. While standing on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange on February 19, 2009, he unleashed what can only be called a rant against the Obama Administration's proposal to help homeowners facing foreclosure refinance their mortgages. "Do we really want to subsidize the losers' mortgages?" he asked. "This is America! How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor's mortgage that has an extra bathroom and can't pay their bills?" He went on to suggest that he would organize a Chicago Tea Party in July, where capitalists would dump "some derivative securities into Lake Michigan." The video of his tirade became a YouTube hit, and thus the movement was born. Within weeks, Tea Party protests were sprouting up all over the country. The Tea Party name, a clear reference to the American colonists' dumping of tea into Boston Harbor to protest taxes imposed by King George, stands as an acronym as well: Taxed Enough Already.

Santelli, however, can't claim credit as the sole mastermind of the movement. Prior to his appearance in Chicago, Keli Carender, a Seattle at-home mother also known as Liberty Belle, had been using her blog to get the word out about the populist "Porkulus Protest" she was organizing against President Barack Obama's proposed $750 billion stimulus package. About 100 people showed up for her event in mid-February. Similar events inspired by both Santelli and Carender, followed in quick succession in Denver; Mesa, Ariz.; Tampa, Fla.; and other cities. Tea Party organizers claim that the first nationwide Tea Party protest took place on February 27, 2009, with coordinated events occurring in more than 40 cities.

These protests were merely dress rehearsal for the Tea Party events planned for April 15, 2009: tax day. Few can agree on the number of events held throughout the country; the number ranges from 200 to 750, with total attendance ranging from about 250,000 to more than a half-million. Some protests, such as the one in Atlanta, Georgia, attracted crowds of several thousand; others drew just a handful. A protest outside the White House was broken up by police when a demonstrator threw a box of tea bags over the fence.

Protests against the stimulus package, the bank bailouts, and health-care legislation continued throughout 2009, with major events held on July 4 and September 12. During the summer, Tea Party protesters were criticized for their disruptive outbursts during meetings held by members of Congress in their home districts to discuss health-care reform.

Tea Partiers detest all things big: big government, big business, big national debt, big taxes. They express hostility toward the elite and outrage that the government has come to the aid of Wall Street while ignoring the plight of Main Street. Most Tea Partiers consider themselves citizen activists who are part of a grassroots movement that is organized from the bottom up—small groups united under a shared ideology. The movement claims no national leader or figurehead. Some say that Sarah Palin assumed the role as #1 Tea Partier when she delivered the keynote address at the first Tea Party Convention in February 2010 in Nashville. Some 600 people attended the full convention, and another 500 sat in on Palin's speech only. "America is ready for another revolution," she said. In a barb pointed at President Barack Obama, she said the movement is "about the people, and it's bigger than any one king or queen of a tea party, and it's a lot bigger than any charismatic guy with a teleprompter."

Some members of the movement accused Tea Party Nation, the group that organized the convention, of attempting to profit from the event: tickets cost $549 to attend, and Palin received a reported $100,000 speaker's fee (which Palin said "will go right back to the cause"). Several sponsors and speakers backed out of commitments in the days and weeks leading up to the event. Representatives Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) and Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) were among the speakers to cancel their appearances.

While the Tea Party movement claims to be a grassroots movement, FreedomWorks, a powerful conservative organization headed by former congressman Dick Armey, seems to play an important role behind the scenes and serves as clearinghouses for information on protests. Call it the right's answer to MoveON.org.

While Democrats are usually the target of Tea Partiers' ire, Republicans have not always been spared. In New York, many members of the movement endorsed third-party candidate Doug Hoffman in the 2009 special election for the House seat vacated by John McHugh, over the moderate Republican candidate, Dede Scozzafava, pro-choice and a backer of gay marriage. Their plan backfired: Scozzafava withdrew from the race, and Democrat Bill Owens went on to win the election, albeit narrowly.

The ranks of Tea Party members grew in Congress throughout 2010. The movement's first major victory of the year occurred in January in Massachusetts—perhaps the bluest of the blue states—when Republican Scott Brown defeated Democrat Martha Coakley in the Senate race to fill the seat vacated after the death of Sen. Ted Kennedy. Brown somewhat distanced himself from the Tea Party during the race, but as he positioned himself as an outsider who would vote to block a vote on health-care reform, the movement claimed him as one of their own. In July Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) got the go-ahead from the House leadership to form a Tea Party Caucus. Twenty-eight Republicans joined the group. In November's midterm elections, voters elected Kentucky's Rand Paul and Florida's Marco Rubio to the Senate. Exit polls on election day indicated that four out of ten voters have a favorable opinion of the party.

Voters, however, rejected some high-profile Tea Party candidates. Delaware's Christine O'Donnell, a conservative—and controversial—social activist who upset highly regarded political veteran Rep. Mike Castle in the September primary, was defeated in the general election by Democrat Christopher Coons. Sharron Angle, another controversial Tea Partier, lost her bid to unseat Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader from Nevada.
Love them or hate them, few can dispute that the Tea Partiers have altered the political landscape and turned business as usual in Washington on its head.

Information Please® Database, © 2007 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:10 PM

>>revealed that 28% of Americans have a positive perception of the Tea Party movement.<<

The same 28% that thinks that Obama was born in Kenya and conspired with his father to become President when he was three years old?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:24 PM

" In July Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) got the go-ahead from the House leadership to form a Tea Party Caucus. Twenty-eight Republicans joined the group. In November's midterm elections, voters elected Kentucky's Rand Paul and Florida's Marco Rubio to the Senate. Exit polls on election day indicated that four out of ten voters have a favorable opinion of the party."

Four out of ten is obviously 40%, about the same as Obama's approval rating, which will be dropping like a rock if he shuts down the Federal government over his demand for huge tax increases, rather than the needed control of proflagate spending.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

Four out of ten in Kentucky & Florida, PeeDee.

Big effing deal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:47 PM

4 of 10 who voted in November at selected polling stations is not 4 of ten of the population.

"his demand for huge tax increases" When was this demand?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:57 PM

Obama's job approval rating drops to new low, poll shows

NEWSCORE
Posted: 4:43 PM, July 29, 2011

PRINCETON, N.J. -- President Barack Obama's job approval rating hit a new low of 40 percent this week as the debt crisis dragged on in Washington, a sharp slide from his 50 percent approval rating earlier this month, according to a Gallup Daily tracking poll released Friday.

According to Gallup, Obama's previous low was 41 percent, which he hit most recently in April.

"The inability of US lawmakers to agree on the debt ceiling has apparently shaken Americans' confidence in the economy and now seems to be taking its toll on the president's public support, with Obama's approval rating at a new low," Gallup said in its statement releasing the poll numbers.

The poll was conducted by phone from Tuesday through Thursday with a random sample of 1,463 adults living in the US.

As recently as June 7, Obama had a 50 percent job approval rating, Gallup said.

Among Democrats, however, Obama's job approval rating is much higher at 72 percent, Gallup reported. Among independents, 34 percent approve of his performance, compared with 13 percent of Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:03 PM

Everyone in government from the dog catcher up is taking a beating in the polls... Big deal...

But what people are the most pissed over is that we have systemic problems all over the board that allows:

1. safe voting districts

2. primary voters, who tend to be the most angry, to elect the next _____________ (pick an elected position)

3. that big $$$ always wins and

4. for minority tyranny where the wishes of 41 senators out weighs the wishes of the other 59

Address these problems and we might get back to something more like what the Founding Fathers had in mind: ****Democracy***!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:12 PM

I guess the question one needs to ask themselves is this, "Do you trust our government?"

Leave one party or the other OUT of it.

There's your clue!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:16 PM

No the question that should be asked is "Why is so much money being spent on publicity campaigns to get us to distrust the government."

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:34 PM

That's it, JtS... There is so much anti-government crap being rammed down our throats that we are in danger of becoming a "failed nation" down the road... We need a "disclosure law" to make the folks, foreign or domestic, who are peddling this shit have to come out from the shadows... I mean, we could be watching anti-government ads being run by countries that are not exactly our friends...

This is very messed up...

Hey, you hate American and want to run ads??? Great??? Don't do it like cowards... Step up and say who you are... I mean, a man gets to face his accuser... Why not out country???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:08 PM

I think we should all join the Republican Party and work to revive its noble traditions. All these neoconservatives like the Tea Party have completely ruined the credibility and tradition of the Republicans. We need a sane, balancing, conservative voice in our country.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:10 PM

Now there's a idea...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:15 PM

A Neo-conservative is a social liberal and a fiscal and National Defence conservative.

The Mick Jaeger misinterpretation is just plain silly.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 11:44 PM

My mom was a pro choice feminist, an environmentalist and a Republican.

My dad was a firm believer in the separation of church and state. He used to wathe The 700 Club for laughs. He was also a Republican.

In my youth, I split tickets. Now I'd slice off my right hand before I'd vote Republican. It isn't their party anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 02:30 AM

Their party exists LadyJean. Its called the Democratic Party. Their isn't a ton of difference between Obama and Eisenhower on most issues. It is the Progressives whose Party went away.

But even that is not the whole story. The Democrats are an alliance of everyone who wants to preserve the Mightiest and best country in the world which emerged and grew from the ashes of WWII. Fighting against those who want to send us back to the 1890's dominated by robber barons and a roller coaster economy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 05:35 AM

"sane balancing conservative voice"?

WTF?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 10:02 AM

sane balancing conservative voice

Warren Buffett.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 10:46 AM

"The inability of US lawmakers to agree on the debt ceiling has apparently shaken Americans' confidence in the economy and now seems to be taking its toll on the president's public support

Yep- There's the Boobocracy in action! Blaming the President for the antics of the TeaBaggers.

Don't have the brains of a brick, for the most part.

Wanna bet any money on the outcome of the 2012 elections, Bobert??

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:07 AM

Here's the way I see it shaping up, Greg...

Come the 2012 election the Dems can run one one issue only: Let the Bush tax cuts expire... They can use the following logic: "Yo, Repubs... Remember that debt ceiling blackmail game you put on the American people??? Now it's your turn to put some peas in the pot..."

If the Dems do that, given we get thru this manufactured ballgame crisis, then all it's going to take is Obama leading the way because Citizens United people are ready and willing to spend as many billion$ as it takes to out-shout, out-subterfuge and out spend the Dems by as much as they want... If Obama sticks to that theme and the Dems as well and call the Repubs on every BIG LIE, the Dems will sweep the Repubs out in the numbers we saw go the other way in 2010...

It's all on Obam from here out to make the case... He needs to be everywhere.... Who cares in the Repubs scream.... They will scream no matter what...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:50 AM

The reason that there is no official party or group representing the "people" is that the notion of "people" is ill-defined. What people? Which people?

The Tea Party are deluded in that they blame the very source for their protection, the government, under ideal circumstances not the dysfunction one we have now, is not found in the big corporations who will chew them up and spit them out for lunch.

They have been successfully hoodwinked very much like the early Nazis in Germany.
Think about what the Tea Party has "bought into"? Christian supremacy, mythical moral standards by a mythical past America Uber Alles, anti-intellectualism, pitchfork and torches to anything that threatens their provincial ideas, an association with an interpretation of the working-class which vitiates any union, and a nay-saying attitude to anything that doesn't conform to their narrow values and ideas.

They have put the U.S. government in deep jeopardy which you might call seditious.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:55 PM

Message from a typical non-violent peace loving Tea Party hater;

U.S. Capitol Police are investigating a threatening voicemail left in the office of Rep. Jean Schmidt;

"Yes, uh. Yeah, I'm glad, uh. the president passed healthcare, yeah. Funky-ass, racist-ass Republicans hate that, don't you? Jean Smith, when you got hit by that car or when you fell or whatever, you should've broke your back, bitch. You, and Boehner motherfuckerer, that Mitch McConnell all you racist fucking Republicans. Why don't you just change y'all's party name to racist? 'Cause if one of those little fucking Teabaggers would've spit on me, I would have socked them in the fucking face with my fucking .09 mm. Fuck all you racist motherfuckers."

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 12:08 AM

At this point Bobertz old friend I gotta' tell you that Obama ain't up to jackshit.   While I know and believe that the methodology, the process, will always rule, Barry the Ball-less has once again proven how incredibly weak he is and how bad his negotiating skills are. He's hopeless......but the system will continue to provide a leveling somewhere in the middle, swinging to the right now as it once swung to the left.

The officeholder matters little but Obama has proven himself repeatedly as an incredibly weak doof who has great oratory and warm fuzzy ideas that are only words.....................


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 12:46 AM

"I suppose the main, unifying item of the Tea Party agenda, is taxes."

As per Lisa Lerer's article which has been verified by JTS, Republicans are responsible for TARP and TARP gave rise to the Tea Party:

"McConnell, Boehner, Cantor and Ryan all voted in October 2008 for the program, which stoked the rise of the Tea Party movement."

So is the tea party Anti-Republican?

Democrats claim that TARP was bad so they must be in agreement with the Tea Party.

Evidently the Tea Party is against having their taxes spent on bullshit like bailing out banks while the national deficit rises, the government's "fiscal irresponsibility"

If you remember it was Rick Santelli on CNBC, owned by GE, that ranted against TARP and called for a Tea Party in Chicago.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 01:17 AM

"Obama ain't up to jackshit."

The Mudcat awakening begins.

I wouldn't have put it so bluntly but I think that although Obama is a good guy and is well intentioned, He is a week leader and cannot change things in Washington, cannot prevent lobbyist influence and cannot curtail pork barrel spending.

All this demonizing of the Tea Party is a diversionary tactic.

I agree with Obama on some things. I am not one of those people that have to demonize everything a particular paerson syas and does out of loyalty to some ideology or agenda.

For instance he was speaking on TV and talking to parents, telling them they have to participate in their childrens schooling. Who can argue with that?

I agree with his views on racism. He is definitely not racist.

He wants to lower the cost of health care and make it affordable for more people. Who could possibly against that? However the health care bill, written by lobbyists, is raising the cost of health care.

Up 7.3%, or $1,319 from last year

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Health care costs for a family of four rose again in 2011, with employees paying a much larger share of the rising expenses, according to a new industry report Wednesday.

American families who are insured through their jobs average health care costs of $19,393 this year, up 7.3%, or $1,319 from last year, according to independent actuarial and health care consulting firm Milliman Inc.
More significantly, employers are making workers shoulder an even bigger share of total health care expenses. Of the $1,319 annual increase, workers' out-of-pocket costs this year rose 9.2%. That was more than the 6.6% increase the prior year.

Payroll deductions for insurance coverage rose 9.3% this year, also more than the year before. However, employers' share of workers' health care costs fell 6% in 2010, compared to 8% the year prior. Of the $19,393 overall annual cost, employees' share is inching closer to 50%, said Lorraine Mayne, principal and consulting actuary with Milliman. "Employees are paying $8,000 of the $19,000. That's a decent amount much larger than other areas of consumer spending," said Mayne.

"What we've observed in the past few years is employers have increasingly been offering health plans with higher deductibles and co-insurance, co-payment limits," she said.

Health care's hidden costs: $363 billion

Companies are doing this in order to control their own costs and to force workers to use medical care more selectively, she said. health reform so far has had very limited impact on curtailing these costs, said Mayne. While reform's new provisions such as eliminating lifetime benefit limits and removing copays on preventive care have changed rules for who pays for cost of care, they haven't made any impact on the total costs of care, she said.

The report showed that physician costs represent 33% of a family's overall health cost. Elsewhere, hospital inpatient costs account for 31%, out patient costs 17% and pharmacy costs 15% and other expenses such as for medical equipment about 4%.

Milliman also looked at 14 cities across the United States where health care expenses are substantially higher than the national average. Among them, Miami, New York City, Chicago and Boston ranked as the top four where health care costs for an insured family of four is more than 100% higher than the national average of $19,393. But those same costs in Phoenix, Atlanta, and Seattle are under $19,000, the report said.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:11 PM

Yeah, Strings, they have but...

...this was just one battle which they really couldn't lose... I mean, my dead grandmother could have won this battle from her grave... But one battle does not mark the end of the war... The war is still on and we progressives have the better ideas for the future... The right will huff and puff but watch the left start to get some serious body blows into the some of that Tea Flab in the near future...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: gnu
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 03:29 PM

Wow... you guys are some shook up about the fact that the rich guys are in charge. First clue was???

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:04 PM

Obama sold us out on the Health Care by taking Single Payer off the table.

The Orwellian pattern is there:

1.Compromise=Capitulation
2.National Security=More wars
3.Clean energy=Tar sands pipe line
4.Immigration problem=Deport more immigrants
5.Justice Department=Don't investigate Bush miscreants in torture
6.Consumer Protection=Fire Elizabeth Warren
7.Union protection=Sit on your hands
8.Education reform=Privatize schools
9.Economic consultation=Wall Street calls the shots

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:11 PM

Reality is that we have a very radical Congress and we can wish that Obama could do an end around it but he can't... I'm sure he realizes that he needs to do a major "reset" and step up and take charge of the next conversation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:12 PM

The tea party is a diversionary tactic. They are all Republicans.

Gingrich, Ken Starr any names ring a bell?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 12:26 PM

I wonder where we would be if McCain and Palin had won the election. I wonder where we would be if Baby bush hadn't stolen the previous elections.
What if...

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 12:39 PM

Wonder what it might have been if Bush Sr. had been believed on Reagan's Voodoo Economics and been elected instead of Reagan? Can you imagine this all happening if LBJ was president or Sam Rayburn Speaker of the House?

Sorry if I sounded a bit raw on Obama before. The man does have balls. One's the size of a pea and the other is real tiny.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 05:34 PM

White folks don't vote for the angry black guy.
So Obama continues to look like the most reasonable person in the chamber. Be carefull Barry the chamber can fill with gas in a hurry.


Its suggested we all join the Republican Party. Well who among you had the guts to do it?

Now I get to vote in the Republican Primary. My first quandry is whether I should vote for the looniest or the most traditional.

Robert Koch, Willard Romney, Rick Perry, John Huntsman ?

or what I call the indoor Palin's....the Bachmanns.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 05:50 PM

While we are wonderin' I'd loved to have seen the second President Kennedy: Bobby!!! This would be a far better nation now had he not been assassinated... Set the left back generations...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 06:32 PM

Tea Party math. Throw away 1.2 billion to save 16.5 million

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Songwronger
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:49 PM

As I recall, the Tea Party was founded by disgruntled conservatives who were fed up with George W. Bush's big government policies. They said they wanted to return to fiscal conservatism. Wanted to end the Federal Reserve too.

But the movement was quickly taken over by the mainstream Republican bureaucracy, which made Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin the spokespeople. At the core of the movement though was a desire to shrink government and return monetary policy to the U.S. Treasury, where it belongs.

But my point is, at least the disgruntled Republicans tried to break away. What are disgruntled Democrats doing? They're saying Obama needs to be re-elected.

Liberals should at least make the effort that disgruntled Republicans did. The Democratic splinter party would no doubt be given the face of Al Franken or Jon Stewart or Nancy Pelosi, and thereby be reduced to an object of ridicule, but the effort has to be made.

Personally, I would like to see the two extremes of the political spectrum come together with a Ron Paul / Dennis Kucinich presidential ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:59 PM

Never!!!

Kucinich/Paul maybe...

No Ron Paul at the top... He is a fruitcake who would have *US* back to trading bones and marbles rather than paper money... I mean, he's got a caveman mentality...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 09:07 PM

If you go to the extreme left and the extreme right you'll find it isn't linear but a circle and those two extremes will share many more things than most people will believe. The two men are very good friends and frankly, I'd bet they would both be better than any other ticket!   Although they might not agree on some issues I would think that they could work things out far better than the circus we just witnessed.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 09:57 PM

Sigh

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 10:19 PM

Agreed, Spawzer... Kucinich on top...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 01:18 AM

But the [Tea Party] movement was quickly taken over by the mainstream Republican bureaucracy

Sorry, but its ostensibly the other way round now.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 01:35 AM

I agree with Sawzaw to a great degree, but I think ...
"All this demonizing of the Tea Party just serves to fire up
the leftie/progressive base."
It is just the standard demonization you see from many on the left:
The Tea Party types are portrayed as: White, stupid, racist, desperate, scared and deluded. They are said to be selfish, and ignorant of, and lying about, economics. They supposedly bully people, try to scare old people, carry guns, and are prepared to foster anarchy.
The people who spew these hateful claims -- some of them on these forum postings -- are the same ones who call themselves kind, open-minded, liberal and progressive, and say things such as:
Progressives have the better ideas for the future...
Rational conservatives would work with Democrats to fix problems.
Their isn't a ton of difference between Obama and Eisenhower.

From what I've seen, not one of the people making those types of claims has ever been to a Tea Party rally, and is just parroting the hateful characterizations they get from left-wing media.
Tea Party types seem to be very concerned about a goverment that borrows more than 30-cents of every dollar it spends, and seems hell-bent on a "Fundamental transformation" of America away from the freedoms and prosperity of the 50's-90's. They are opposed to the leftist ideology of the progressives/socialists/Commies that the current administration seems to support, and they do not want America to become bankrupt, or end up like Greece. THEY know that the gov't does not need to grow at a rate of 8% annually, and that doubing the size of the gov't in the last 10 years is insane. They believe the profligate spending of Obama is poised to bring the country to ruin.

The reason the Tea Party types aren't willing to do much in the way of compromising...? ? ?
I'm thinking it probably has nothing to do with Obama and the Dems forcing the health care takeover bill down the American public's throats, does it ? ? ?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 06:58 AM

A valid and legal vote by both houses of congress, followed by a valid and legal signing by the POTUS...that is "forcing...down the American public's throats" ????
Wow, no extremist hateful demonization in that quote is there?

If the Tea Partiers are so concerned about government spending, where were they under GWB?

And finally, name one communist in the current administration please.











BTW, well done (if your intent was to reinforce the stereotypes RE the Tea Party that you so decry above).

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 08:11 AM

The GOP's hidden debt-deal agenda: Gut the EPA
By BRYAN WALSH | Time.com – 2 Aug 2011

It was lost in the endless drama of the debt-ceiling negotiations, but last week, the Republicans in charge of the House of Representatives launched an unprecedented attack on the U.S.'s environmental protections. GOP Representatives added rider after rider to the 2012 spending bill for the Environmental Protection Agency and the Interior Department, tacking on amendments that would essentially prevent those agencies - charged with protecting America's air, water and wildlife - from doing their jobs.

Rest at http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2086421,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 08:49 AM

No, GUEST.. I have "never" been to a Tea Party rally... And I don't plan on going to one... There is a reason why black people don't go them and that's all I need to see... There was a picture of the Tea Party rally that Glan Beck held in Washington, D.C.... Of course the Tea Party people will say it wasn't one but that is a BIG LIE... Anyway, the picture panned one are of the peanut gallery and guess what???

Ya' give???

About 500 faces in the crowd and not one black person???

You may not think that "racism" fits but out of 500 faces and not one black person purdy much speak volumes...

But forget that for a minute...

The Tea Party people are either eat-up ignorant or just plain so in love with the idea of getting a Repub in the White House so they can continue their assault on the working class... Look where it got *US* last time: The Fall of '08... These are the policies that the Tea Party loves: no regs (think the Wall Street meltdown), no government spending except on Defense...

Their knowledge of basic economics is like a black hole... They would rather let the Koch brothers and Dick Armey tell *US* how to run an economy??? Not economists???

That's like asking your local vet to do a heart transplant on you... No, worse... It's like asking the guy at Jiffy-Lube to do it...

There is a very real reason why this recovery ain't taking... Real economists told *US* that it would take a $1.2T to $1.3 T in stimulus (Keyensian) and the Repubs balked and we ended up with 1/4th that amount ($300B) along with (drum roll) $400B in more tax cuts!!!

But the Tea Party goes around ***proclaiming*** that the stimulus didn't work as their argument against the mean ol' gov'mint doing what desperately needs to do to stave off yet another manufactured recession???

This is bad thinking... No, it is non-thinking... I doubt if any one of the Tea Party memeb4ers in Congress could pass a 200 level college exam on economics yet here we have massive unemployment and with it decreased tax revenues... The Tea Party says, "Just cut taxes" and "Cut spending"??? Flawed logic... This is equivalent to using leeches to cure disease...

Racist??? check

Eat up ignorant??? check

Screw these people... They are too eat up with dumb ass to run a lemon-aid stand...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 09:20 AM

Congress will spend 1.2 billion dollars on thier summer break since they did not fund the FAA. The safety inspectors are working for free and the taxes (22 million dollars a day) are being lost.

The transportation secretary made a deal that he would not mention that safety inspectors are not being paid in return for Airlines giving back the money they took by hiking fairs to equal what the taxes were and keeping it for themselves.

Expensive vacations for Congress but it is actually money wasted because the republicans want to abolish all union jobs in the FAA and Democrat Senator Rockeller will not cave. So the FAA is virtually shut down, taxes go uncollected and 4000 jobs to build safety systems and infrastructure are lost until the House members in COngress take action maybe when they get back from VAY KAY.


YEAH WE WON LETS PARTY LIKE ITS 2012 cuz we made OBAMA America FAIL
just look at the markets YAAHOOO


The tea party is costing trillions in lost money for the government and private sector. So they haven't saved anyone anything.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 09:55 AM

Left wing media? In the USA?

I'll have some of what he's smoking!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 10:28 AM

The Tea Party's darling Sarah Palin is best known for telling nasty lies. Their other darling, Michelle Bachmann, is best known for attempting to turn the United States into a theocracy. 'Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 10:56 AM

I think it would be helpful for us to stop and look back whence we came.

Before the 2008 election we all – even the Bush Babies – recognized that this country was in a bad way and most of us agreed that it wouldn't be – couldn't be - fixed in any short term. I remember posting that I tended to think that it would be only fair if a Republican won the election so that the Republicans would be forced to fix up their own mess.

A more rational voice than mine on the Cat retorted that you don't send the bull back in that wrecked the china shop in the first place, and I had to agree.

So here we are. We are in a mess and some – many? - Mudcatters have given up on the President and his party. I remember when John Kennedy was asked what his biggest surprise was upon attaining the presidency, he said his biggest surprise was finding out how little real power the President has.

This president has even less real power; from the outset he has had openly expressed opposition that promised they would do everything they could to block anything that he tried to do. The great patriot Limbaugh said that he hoped that America would fail under Obama, and many other patriots listen to that man.

If McCain/Palin had got in, the shoe might be on a different foot. Although I would hope that REAL patriots would have tried to work with them. I consider it nothing less than treasonous to do otherwise.

Yes. I wish President Obama would stand up and be firm for what we - some of us - believed he stood for. But then I do not know what it is possible to do or even what the game plan is. Maybe he still thinks he will be able to get the WHOLE country behind him. I don't think so- but then I don't have the view from his window.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 11:10 AM

The Republican Party in it's current Tea Party stage has a stated goal to destroy the US government. They are constantly spreading gas and lighting matches. They can't be bargained with. Stand firm and they will just let it burn.

Will the people see that? Maybe.

But keep in mind that outlets like NPR are reporting the conflict as if it is two sided and that all Obama is concerned with is re-election. Standing firm would have been his best chance at re-election. the economy would have tanked. Financial markets would have collapsed. Pensions would have been obliterated. The GOP would have been blamed. Obama and the Democrats would be elected in a landslide in 2012. With the country, no the whole world, sliding into chaos and the Mayan prophecies coming true.

Obama, Kucinich and maybe Barney Frank are the only adults in the room.

Ron Paul is a nut job. His solution to the financial mess is the gold standard. His solution for health care for the poor is to let hospitals do it for free.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:01 PM

I am disgusted with NPR, too, JtS...

They have taken on Repub-speak in blaming "both sides"

Lets get real here... This was cowardly ambush from the right and it makes me sick that the Repubs have used their vast control over the media to shove propaganda down everyone's throats and now we have to listen to Diane Rheame say stupid stuff like "both sides are guilty"...

BS... The Dems were the ones who got ambushed here... Would anyone explain why they should get lumped in as being part of this manufacture crisis???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 05:04 PM

OK you are now Barak Obama.

You have put taxes and cuts on the table and have been rejected and woalked out on twice. You say "DOn't call my Bluff" and they say "you'll see whose bluffing"

Greece, Spain and Italy are teetering on total default.
ICeland Ireland and the UK are already wrung out.
Germany holds Greece and the Euro in thier hands.

If you veto on the last day, the default and credit downgrade is yours.
If you go along, the credit downgrade and default is both yours and the extremeists. But you don't know that for sure.

Err on the side of caution is what I would do. I would not use as many words as Obama, As a white guy, I would be angry and succinct, but I would go ahead and sign.


Or would you use simple and volitile restatment of facts along with strong accusations and threats and declare you are following the voice of the People. "I veto this gift to Billionaires. I VETO this murder sentence against the AMerican People!"

What WOULD you do?
The downgrade is coming and will be done by Stadard and Poor's first.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 05:28 PM

Obama could stave off the downgrade by promising to veto extension of the Tax cuts if they apply to the millionaires. Make it the Republican's fault if they don't come out with a separate extension for those under 250 K.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 05:34 PM

that was last year's cave in.

I'm talkin the revenue free debt cave in.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 10:28 PM

Yeah, he caved... That was wrong... It is also right for Obama to put the tax cuts front and center for the 2012 campaign...

"Hi, I'm Barack Obama... Yes, as every president in history I've made some mistakes but if you re-elect me I will restore sanity to our economy by allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire and will not allow out nation's economy to be held hostage any longer by people who care more about themselves than out country..."

(that's a wrap)

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 04:55 PM

I just saw this on my sister's facebook.

Quote from today's NY Times: " a dozen cookies are put down in front of a CEO, a union member and a tea Partier. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies then says to the tea partier that union guy wants your cookie"!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 07:00 PM

That's about it, Jack...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: gnu
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 09:32 PM

Ebbie... "But then I do not know what it is possible to do or even what the game plan is."

That's the deal... sad, but that's the deal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 06:17 AM

JtS: "Quote from today's NY Times: " a dozen cookies are put down in front of a CEO, a union member and a tea Partier. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies then says to the tea partier that union guy wants your cookie"!
Bobert:" "Hi, I'm Barack Obama... Yes, as every president in history I've made some mistakes but if you re-elect me I will restore sanity to our economy by allowing the....."

GfS: "......CEO's to keep taking only 11 cookies!....save the crumbs for the union guy...I owe 'em!"

Waving!, GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 10:52 AM

Oh, that last post was from me. I guess I forgot to sign in.
You can delete the previous one.


JtS: "Quote from today's NY Times: " a dozen cookies are put down in front of a CEO, a union member and a tea Partier. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies then says to the tea partier that union guy wants your cookie"!
Bobert:" "Hi, I'm Barack Obama... Yes, as every president in history I've made some mistakes but if you re-elect me I will restore sanity to our economy by allowing the....."

GfS: "......CEO's to keep taking only 11 cookies!....save the crumbs for the union guy...I owe 'em!"

Waving!, GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 11:04 AM

No Obama said he wanted to take a couple of cookies and use them to pay for wars and pay down the debt, thus increasing confidence in the economy and increasing the total number of cookies on the plate to say 15 leaving 10 for the CEOs 2 for the unions, 2 for the tea party and 1 to rebuild infrastructure.

Before Obama entered office, Handy Hank and Incurious George, smashed the cookies smashed the plate and smashed table it was sitting on then extorted money from the Tea Partier and the Union guy to fully reimburse the CEO.

Then with no cookies for anyone for a while, the GOP, made the extension of unemployment benefits contingent on the CEO's keeping all of their cookies. Which brings us to today. The tea party threatening to burn down the whole house and the cookie factory unless grandma and grandpa get their health care cut and if the CEO's get their cookie allowance cut.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 11:52 AM

Lloyd Blankfien lay on his 800 thread count sheets in his bedroom made of African Blackwood Mpingo, listening. A faint sound of chains rattle or is it a piece of foil in the air conditioning ducts?
The bedroom door bursts inward in a gust of icy air and there, the ghosts of robber Barons J.P.Morgan Corneilius Vanderbuilt, Joseph Seligman, Danial Drew and the late owner of Blackwater... all looking rotted to varying degrees.

"What is THIS!" yelled LLoyd.   
ItS A wArnInG ~ whined the chorus of gasping ghosts.
"A warning of what?" llyod asked timidly.
A WaRaning Oof WhaT You Are INtendeD tO DoOOoo.
Carnagie steps forward and speaks for the group, "This is just some sort of lsd halluncination or Ambien reaction or a bit of undigested lobster"
NOOOOOOoooo WE Just tell You why You are here.
"Shoot" Blankfein said tersely
"YOuu are GOOinG Too faRRR. The WHole POinT of TakiNG tRillonS of DollArs wAs to LiVe. SOOOon the MonEY you Have stolEN will DeStroY the PeopLE you NEED for YoUR TRue Destiny.
"I am Living, I am living it up!"
no YOU WIll NOT. Our Goal Was not to just get ricH
"Bullshit"
We Robbed and STole and kiLled Workers so That we could Live forEverrrrrrrr. YoU must Let The poor learN and Work On immortality reeesearch beFore They Fade away In PovErty.

"Hmm Maybe Ill buy some derivitives in the bio research sector tommorrow, no the the hell outta here before I call Goldman Sachs Security"

Carnagie: "They never learnnn"
Andrew Mellon: "Greedy Bastard"

and the penthouse again grew silent.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 11:54 AM

the new robber barons

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 12:11 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 01:19 PM

The truth is evident. Obama is a closet Republican. The other thing is
that he could easily be assassinated and that worries him and me too.

Racism is at the core of this political debate.

ALEC is also a Tea Party mantra. They are trying to change America by their Draconian policies. They represent Fascist Corporate America, see what Mussolini did in Italy.

The Tea Party is a "brown shirt" extension of Fascist Corporate America, a reactive force, capable of violence, a doctrinaire semi-religious group that seeks to enforce their views of America on everyone including the use of violence if necessary.
They allow for no disagreement on any level evidenced by their political representation in Congress, no negotiations, no prisoners taken.

Obama is beholden to Wall Street, a financial bloc that he hopes will finance his next election. He may be renewed as a president by default since the public is awakening to the fanaticism of the T.P. and might reject any Republican candidate as a matter of course, no more moderate Repubs any more.

In the meantime, Democrats are not united, too many conservatives there, and their willingness to "go along" is shown.

This stalemate means that we will see a Double Dip Recession and the T.P. will be culpable in this.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 01:43 PM

"Obama is beholden to Wall Street, a financial bloc that he hopes will finance his next election."

Sigh.....

I am sure that his cooperation with Wall St has nothing to do with any possible economic recovery depending on them. And that they hold the bulk of all the private pensions in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 01:50 PM

String: "The Tea Party is a "brown shirt" extension of Fascist Corporate America, a reactive force, capable of violence, a doctrinaire semi-religious group that seeks to enforce their views of America on everyone including the use of violence if necessary.s"

For what its worth, (and I'm NOT saying I particularly disagree with you), inside the so-called 'Health(?) Care bill', is a provision to call for, and help fund, citizens (brown shirts?) to 'watch' other citizens, and help 'enforce',(rat on) fellow Americans.
Shame, shame, shame!!!

It is also ironic, that as much as I've disagreed with Obama's policies, I have a close friend, who describes himself, as a 'Progressive', voted for Obama, 'discussed' politics with me, who said, as I walked into his shop, just the other day, this week, " So, how do you like our Republican President??"..then went on to rant about how he was just continuing Bush's policies.
When he was done with his monologue, I just simply asked him, "What was I telling you, during the elections??...Everything in between, has just been a deception, to fool the Democratic/Liberal base, why fucking over the country(small businesses, in context), in the meantime. If you were to go back, as far as the nominations, you will find my posts, saying the same thing...for which I have drawn VERY hostile bias, against me....no matter how correct I've been!
In one of my very latest posts, I think in the 'debt ceiling/ fix is in' thread, I even mentioned that I'm sounding more like a 'Progressive' than even so so-called 'Progressives' on here!
Imagine that!!
Anyway, 'Strings', regards to you. May your fingers be as nimble as ever, and may people hear your heart, through them!
(Now he only has to deal with his 'heart'!...wink!)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 07:32 PM

One guy = one guy, GfinS...

I mean, if that's all you have to counter what Strings has said then your rebuttal gets an F-...

Bottom line, Strings has is exactly correct...

BTW, GfinS, I have fixed my pudder and can now listen to music so keep 'um coming... Too bad that some one who understands good music is so clueless about real world events???

Wavin' back atcha...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Songwronger
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 08:22 PM

Someone, on one of these threads, said the U.S. has a two-party right wing government. Or something to that effect. That is indeed the case.

Look at the fake debt ceiling argument we just went through. Those things come and go, but the big turd left behind by this one was the new Super Congress. 12 congress critters will now slash and burn spending. 6 repubs and 6 dems are going to enforce austerity on the U.S. This is a new branch of government. This Super Congress will issue legislation to the full congress and it will be voted on, up or down, no amendments, no debate. And both parties are involved.

The media tells us we have a left/right system, but really it's top/bottom. The 1% at the top holds the rest of us down by staging gladatorial games. We pull left and right, left and right, and while we do we forget to look up. As long as we view politics as horizontal rather that vertical, nothing will change.

IMHO

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 11:58 PM

Exactly how friendly has Wall St or the Chamber of Commerce been to Obama?

If allowing him to live is friendly, thats about it.

and who isn't sketical of the super committee

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 12:00 AM

the super Congress behind closed doors

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 12:22 AM

Bobert, I wasn't necessarily countering 'Strings'. I think that there is a growing consensus, that Obama, ISN'T everything he led people to believe he is/was...and that might be an emotional overload for some of the idealistic believers, mostly on the so-called 'left'.
Actually, IMHO, he was never qualified to be the leader of this country...and I think those who promoted them(from the top), knew that..and counted on that very fact! SHOCK!!
That being said, I DON'T blame him for the stock market plunging(exactly). This was in the 'oven' for a LONG time. Nor am I going on the 'Blame the TEA Party Bandwagon', either. The FACT is that, as a country we've been spending WAY OVER our means...and under Obama, the deficit has been INCREASED 35%, over everything up to date! The guys who are breaking out the champagne, are the fat cat bankers, who I've been railing about, for quite some time. I believe we will see fighting amongst several banking institutions, in an effort for the biggest one(s) to emerge..and by then, it will be that one, or them, to dictate terms, not only to the economy, but to our very laws, and 'social' and 'behavioral' status!
You should take note that the Tea Party, wasn't the ones responsible for passing inflated, or bloated legislation, and that the way we've been spending, and racking up 'unfunded' programs, and wars, that the chain was eventually going to be yanked, sooner, or later. It was inevitable!
Now, being as so many of YOU have railed about Wall Street, why aren't YOU celebrating??? Has idealism and reality had a head-on collision??

Bobert, I'll keep posting more music for ya'..but on the 'headbanger thread, OK?....Shit, if you like this stuff....wait till I post mine!!!!! (there is only one person on here, who has heard ANY of it, and he seems to have liked it...a LOT!
BTW, I posted more, and will keep it up...BUT, as you can see, it may be in a wide variety of stuff...BUT, whatever 'style' it may be in...it'll be cool!

Regards to ALL,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 06:42 AM

As an half-aside, a report by health-care professionals over here is apparently saying that the Irish healthcare system saves the most lives per unit spend, the UK next, and the USA one of the fewest.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:49 AM

You Betcha, Richard- which record the Tea Potty is laboring hard to maintain by attempting to repeal the health care act & the modest improvements in U.S. health care it makes.

Real humanitarian geniuses.

Best Damn Country In The World.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 12:34 PM

Their premise is that we can't afford it, and all the other crap in it!
..and truth to tell..we can't afford it!
Perhaps being a little more 'cautious' and health conscious, would be a benefit, if you're so concerned about your health!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 12:45 PM

Tea Party favorite recommends pro slavery book.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 01:50 PM

Their premise is that we can't afford it, and all the other crap in it!
..and truth to tell..we can't afford it!

What about all that money that the super-rich are taking out of our economy? If every billionaire in the country was suddenly a millionaire instead, and were paying taxes, we'd have plenty of money to do anything we wanted. That's the big problem with the whole Tea Party thing. They say "Clean up the debt!" and everyone agrees with that sentiment. But then they say "No new revenue!" and "Let the poor folks bear the brunt" and they become heartless idiots.

GfS, saying we can't afford it is only the first part. How we rearrange things to make it better is the hard part; one sentence solutions aren't real solutions. So -- as you say, we can't afford it. What's next?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:00 PM

I know that mantra gets chanted a lot..BUT, do the math...IF every millionaire was taxed 100%, and ALL their assets seized, and given toward the debt, it, the way the present debt/deficit is, it would be gone in 197 DAYS!
Either, wake up, get a life...or both!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:04 PM

Either, wake up, get a life...or both!


Sooooooo mature!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:09 PM

Donald Trump has 2.4 billion in assets, but his "enterprises" directly employ 24,000 people.

If you assume that each employee is part of a "family of four", that is about 100,000 people who can pay their bills thanks to Trump.

Oprah Winfree has 2.7 billion in assets and employs 1600 people.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett...

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:29 PM

Ah, GfS, still with the one line answers, I see. Of course the debt isn't going to go away in one swell foop. The debt isn't the real problem, anyway. It's the deficit spending. What about 10 years from now, if taxation was more fair? What about collecting Social Security on all income instead of just on wages? What about means-testing for Social Security payouts? What if no one was making a huge profit from health care? What if we spent half of what we currently spend on the military? What if we closed all corporate tax loop holes? What if people were generally paid better, allowing them to pay more taxes and buy more stuff? What if anything sold in this country had to be manufactured, transported, sold, and supported according to our labor laws? What if any corporation that went offshore so they wouldn't have to pay taxes was disallowed from doing business in the United States? What about, instead of giving people money when they are poor, we give them jobs? What about if money wasn't a factor in politics, so large corporations wouldn't be able to as easily control our laws to their benefit?

I can go on forever. Can you go past the "we can't afford it" and the "you're an idiot" stage? Do you have any solutions, or just a mouthful of banal slogans and insults?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:34 PM

If the economy stays where it is, we won't get a handle on the deficit.

If things pick up we go back to 2007 employment levels, we can balance the budget with Clinton ear tax rates combined with fewer tax loop holes

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:37 PM

about 100,000 people who can pay their bills thanks to Trump

1. You seem to assuming they wouldn't have jobs -- maybe even the same jobs -- if they weren't working for Trump.

2. I'd much rather they were paid a lot better and Trump had a fraction of his current money. Why not?

3. You seem to be assuming that it is OK for the people who are in a position to grab all the money to do so. Why?

4. You seem to be assuming that Trump has done something that causes him to be a super billionaire. Does he make the stuff his companies sell? Does he build the buildings? Does he talk to the customers on the phone? Does he clean the bathrooms? Did he even invent anything or have any original ideas? Why are his efforts -- whatever they are -- paid so much more handsomely that anyone else's efforts?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 08:37 PM

If the UK report is right, then a welfare state medical system - a "national health" or "socialised medicine" - or even getting people treated in Cuba - would save money and lives.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 09:54 PM

Re:   John P.'s post just above (09 Aug 11 - 08:29 PM):

This is the way Denmark does it, and within recent decades, Denmark has been on the top of the index of countries with the happiest, most contented people on earth—despite the somewhat lousy climate. The taxes are high, but no one is exceedingly rich, nor is anyone poor. Everyone makes more than enough, but not enough to buy politicians, everyone is covered as far as health care is concerned, and no one has to worry about their old age. Education is free. Labor laws are strict. The hours that a person can be required to work are limited, they have things like paid maternity leave, and there are laws regarding the amount of vacation time people must be allowed (note: a well-rested and contented worker is a much more productive worker). The country is not at war with anyone. And Denmark's economy is healthy.

The Danes are a very happy and contented people. Next on the list are the other Scandinavian countries.

When you mention this to Americans of the Right-Wing persuasion, they tend to scream in horror, "But they're Socialists!!"

So?

Sumpthin's workin' for them.

I don't think that America, Ronnie Reagan's "City on the Hill, that the whole world looks up to and uses as a beacon to guide them," quite cuts it. A small percentage of exceedingly wealthy people, millions of productive jobs "out-sourced," with over 9% unemployment, fear of things like Social Security and Medicare that millions of people depend on (and have paid for up front!) being eliminated or gutted, outrageously expensive health care, crooked banks and financial institutions engaged in a real estate "land grab," many people homeless, Wall Street trading is one big Ponzi scheme, we are at war with two and a half countries, the largest military budget in the history of the world—and, for some strange reason, the economy is in the toilet.

Not to mention, millions of people (like the Tea Party folks) who don't really understand what's going on, but they're madder than hell about it. And they're clueless and mislead enough to want to take more of the same poison that's killing them.

The country CAN "afford it"—if, among a number of other obvious things, you were to make the plutocrats stop shipping their fortunes to Switzerland and the Cayman Islands and pay their fair share of taxes.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 10:13 PM

.....all assuming you can collect taxes from people who are WORKING!
Don, is right, though, about the Plutocracy.
what john, and a few others don't seem to have a handle on, is that when the government takes all these LOANS out, not only are they NOT creating any NEW sources of wealth, but we have to pay it back, WITH interest!!. You mentioned all this list of the usual things that everybody bitches about, but you must have forgotten to list the biggest of all of them...the INTEREST for the Fed printing fiat money, and 'lending' that money back to the government.
Now for some reasons, the 'liberal' mindset, doesn't seem to think that this adds up, and it IS the reason we are in such massive debt!!...IT is THAT agenda, that the slick son of bitches, SELL you the idea of all these programs, so they CAN print up more worthless money, and charge us the interest! Right now 40 cents of every dollar, is owed for that debt! That's the 'jerk-offs' who are screwing the country's economy. The use their 'broker con men', who the news keeps telling us are 'our Representatives' to push entitlement programs..and wars..so the can keep 'lending(read: printing), money, so they grow more powerfull from the interest they are selling!
Now just what other program do you think is free??????????????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 11:05 PM

So, GfS, you are saying that none of the financial remedies Don or I mentioned above will alleviate the deficit spending? Why don't you think so? Or are you completely focused on the debt? Here's the deal: if we get the deficit under control and keep paying off the debt, maybe increase the payments, it will eventually go away.

I see you are still blaming me on some agenda that convinced me take the positions I do. Aren't you getting a little tired of that? Who exactly is it that sold me on the idea of thinking it is unfair and VERY stupid for a few extremely rich people to take everything they want out of our economy while most of us go sadly broke and die? I've been trying to avoid talking about people instead of the issues, but you are sounding like a broken record with that line. You seem to be angry at The System, don't know what to do about it, and take it out on individuals. You are hiding behind a screen that allows you to filter out anyone's ideas that don't stay as shallow as yours are. Only a coward would depend on that kind of subterfuge to absolve himself of the responsibility of defending his positions. You don't have any courage, honor, or integrity behind your words.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999 Sorry again!
Date: 09 Aug 11 - 11:31 PM

"The country [Denmark] is not at war with anyone."

They are in Afghanistan (no offence).

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 12:40 AM

No offense take. My error.

Denmark is a member of NATO. They have a total of 750 troops in Afghanistan.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 12:41 AM

That should be "taken," obviously.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 05:37 AM

Well, Thanks Don and 'Guest 999'. Had you not have brought that up, it may have slipped my mind, as well! (sometimes an admission of an oversight, has its benefits for the whole).
Maybe its time to re-visit OUR involvement in treaties that override our own laws! NATO was originally meant as an balance to offset the Warsaw Pact. My how they are morphing! Makes you wonder why SEATO isn't in the middle east as well!...or the countries involved with NAFTA(another hunk of bullshit), passed during a Christmas break, under Clinton!

As to John's assertion: "Here's the deal: if we get the deficit under control and keep paying off the debt, maybe increase the payments, it will eventually go away."

The taxes from the 'private sector' is what pays deficit. Government FUNDED 'employment', is paid for, by, you guessed it, TAXES,..which is self defeating, because the jobs created by the government, which is made up of 'service jobs' do NOT create wealth...being as the salaries and benefits, that pay for them, only ADD to the deficit!!!
That being said, the INTEREST to pay for these government jobs, and to pay for new programs, is exactly what is crushing our, and the world's economy...including Freddie and Fannie, 'cash for clunkers' 'Obama care', bailouts, and the wars!...among others. The guys at the top, make up the Plutocracy, that Don mentioned earlier. that Plutocracy has no allegiance to us, other than enriching themselves, by providing 'loans' to facilitate THEIR agenda, not ours, or for that matter, either of the political parties. Those people would, will, and have, throw all of us under the bus, at the drop of a hat, if America, who is in so-called debt to them, would wise up, and return to OUR own Constitutional government, even prosecute those who have broken our laws, and seize their 'embezzled' assets, and return it back to where it came from!!!!!!! THEN, you might accomplish something close to what people are clamoring about, when the make 'tax the rich' a political talking point! The people I'M talking about, would also be brought up on war crime charges, as well!
What I've been saying, for quite some time now, is, it is these bastards, who have been CORRUPTING our form of government, BOTH parties, selling us notions to believe in, dividing us as Americans, over the issues,....that usually get resolved, by another expensive program, which of course, they are 'at the ready' to 'loan' us money, or act as middlemen, to secure a purchase of the bonds,...all for the price of THE INTEREST!!
That interest has become the LARGEST deficit of our economy, more than 'social benefit programs', more than our 'unfunded' wars, more than the cost of running our government, more than...well, its the biggest thing!
So when you hear the debate about 'raising the debt ceiling' that issue is merely widening our ability to afford more borrowing, for..you guessed it again, feeding these bastards! I hold suspect ANY politician, and news media outlet, who are under the control, of the IMF(Tim Geitner, and therefore, Obama), along with international banking organizations, and their ilk. Watch for the rise of Rick Perry for President. He's the one they are backing, this time around. Watch his 'meteoric' rise in news coverage, for name recognition. When you see it, note the tactics. note the groundswell....and by the way, they will also back other 'lesser' choices, as well. Keeps the political divide active, which in turn, keeps people's attention, away from them!!..(BTW, another is Romney...I think they've used up Obama, so he gets the 'under the bus toss').
...and all this time, a lot of suckers bought into the 'Hope and Change' folly!!!
I just hope people will wake up, rub their eyes from a long deluded sleep, restore hope IN themselves, and do their part in affecting a change....after all, don't you play a six stringed sword?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 07:32 AM

Tea Party favorite Michele Bachmann recommends pro slavery book.

So Bachmann is a neo-Confederate fundagelical ignorant lunatic. No surprise that she's a Tea Potty favorite, the group being composed of other neo-Confederate fundagelical ignorant lunatics.

One of the best indicators that the education system in the U.S. has failed miserable is - you guessed it- the Tea Potty.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 08:48 AM

GfS, I quite agree with most of what you say, until you get to the point where you seem to be supporting the Tea Party's brinkmanship with our economy. Yes, we have to get the insanity under control. It's just that they picked the wrong time, the wrong battle, and are approaching the whole thing with the insane No Taxes mantra, which just makes them shills for the the very plutocrats you are talking about.

This thread isn't about whether or not we need to get our financial house in order. It's about the Tea Party, and they are making things WAY worse instead of better.

Do you support their methodology?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:41 AM

I think the Tea Party will propel the U.S. into a cultural civil war, maybe here already, but outward manifestations will soon be felt.

Wisconsin was the last stand before Oligarchy and the destruction of democracy in the U.S.

The gang of 12 will ensure cuts and austerity for the U.S.

"Brother, can you spare a dime?"

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 11:28 AM

The way to deal with debt is the way it was done in the 90s... Reasonable tax rates!!!

Now that the Republicans and George Bush have messed things up so much with their Reaganomics on steroids the only way back to anything that resembles the economy of the 90s is to, yes borrow, and get people back to work... But not just any work... China "invests" 15% of it GNP on infrastructure... Germany 8%... The US spends the least % of its GNP on infrastructure, a measly 2%, of any of our competitors... This makes *US* less competitive...

The other are where we need to, yes borrow, is to fuel up our educational system to have a population that is qualified for the jobs of the future... Again, the US is near the bottom on spending for education...

But here's how it works... The folks who will now be employed in these fields will pay taxes back into the system and there will come a time when we are again healthy and hopefully not stupid enough to think that the country needs to be run like a slum...

No other way out of the pickle and 8,000,000 jobs lost that George W. left *US* in...

Cutting taxes again is the most asinine idea in the universe... It didn't create jobs from 2002 thru 2008... It cots *US* 8,000,000 jobs so please, no more stupidity...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 12:12 PM

John: "...until you get to the point where you seem to be supporting the Tea Party's brinkmanship with our economy."

I never said that I supported the Tea Party's methodology, one way or another...just to keep the record straight, OK? So let's not 'assume' and put words in my mouth,(or on the screen). The rest of what I posted IS accurate. We are focusing in the wrong direction. Then, I scroll up and find Bobert's post, which is AGAIN focusing on the GOP...and AGAIN he is missing the target.
It should be quite obvious by now, that our WHOLE political system and process, has been commandeered, by who I pointed out. The GOP is going to push, with help from our media (propaganda) sources, a remedy, by means of backlash, the candidates in bed with the mega-globalists, just like they did with the Bush's, Clinton, Obama. This assault on America, is NOT partisan....but rather, the partisan system has been corrupted so severely, that the cliff dwelling 'hanger-onners' haven't come to the realization, that they are still living in the 'idealistic PAST'!! The evidence OVERWHELMINGLY supports this!!!
We have heard that the 'Fed' is going to keep interest rates low for two years. That's the interest rates for banks who lend to each other....not for you, when you apply for a credit card, or bank loan!!...in fact, I suspect that those who rely on credit, will be seeing THEIR rates go up!!! PAY CASH!! and/or save up, or do without, till you can afford to do it!..by the way, CASH will be the next target!(actually, it has been for some time, now)!

I've posted quite a few pieces of music, mostly on another thread, and pretty good ones at that. I'm going to post one, from a guy that most of all of us, are standing on his shoulders, or have been at one point in our musical careers! I know Dylan idolized him early on..and I know the Dems co-opted this piece, for a while. So when you listen to it, forget the co-optation of ANY group. Just listen to it, note the optimism in his voice, and try to keep a dry eye....How far we have regressed!!
From the soul of an American to the soul of America

Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 12:19 PM

GfS Why don't you spend your energy creating a "reform the system party." Here is what it will take to fix the problem as you have described. Keeping in mind that your party needs near unanimous agreement on what the amendment is to be, you will have to get the following. Until then, we are stuck with the system we have now.

To Propose Amendments

    * Two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to propose an amendment, or

    * Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments. (This method has never been used.)

To Ratify Amendments

    * Three-fourths of the state legislatures approve it, or

    * Ratifying conventions in three-fourths of the states approve it. This method has been used only once -- to ratify the 21st Amendment -- repealing Prohibition.

The Supreme Court has stated that ratification must be within "some reasonable time after the proposal." Beginning with the 18th amendment, it has been customary for Congress to set a definite period for ratification. In the case of the 18th, 20th, 21st, and 22nd amendments, the period set was 7 years, but there has been no determination as to just how long a "reasonable time" might extend.

Of the thousands of proposals that have been made to amend the Constitution, only 33 obtained the necessary two-thirds vote in Congress. Of those 33, only 27 amendments (including the Bill of Rights) have been ratified.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 12:56 PM

JtS: "GfS Why don't you spend your energy creating a "reform the system party.............."

Because, I'm just a composer, who doesn't even like politics!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 01:10 PM

I am not missing the point, GfinS...

The Republican Party has shown over the last two years that it has no interest in anything useful becoming law... That have "stood and the doorway and blocked up the halls" just as the rednecks did 50 years ago over school desegregation... They have filibustered or threaten to filibuster even their own bills just to show how serious they are about nothing coming out of Congress...

This obstructionism is the reason that we can't get sensible legislation that addresses out problems...

They are 99% of America's problem right now and the reason why S & P downgraded *US*...

That is reality... Your opinion that both parties are responsible for this mess is 100% wrong and nothing more than the Republican #1 PR talking point... It is the BIG LIE!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:05 PM

Bobert, Grow up!..Growing old was not an option!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:46 PM

The 'Democraps' had both Houses and the Presidency...and never came up with a budget, or reform. ..only an unaffordable, quasi piece of crap Health Care bill, that they exempt their cronies from! Now what Republicunt 'talking point' does that fall under??
When all else fails, try 'reality'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:56 PM

The last time Congress passed a Federal Budget was July 21, 2009.

When the Democrats, who had a bully majority in both the House and Senate plus the President, looked at the polls they decided to play "kick the can down the road" and the "blame game"

Right now we have no functional government.

Since Obama is the elected leader, it is up to him to lead.

Instead he plays the "blame game" and foments class warfare.

It's a bleak time for the old US of A.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 03:03 PM

Thank you, pdq!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 03:10 PM

It's bleak as hell when reasonable people can't decide on a strategy to fix their system of government. I have no great love for the Tea Party--I think they are divisive, and about fifty other adjectives, none of them nice. Nor do I care for the Reps or Dems. BUT, you folks will have to find a better way to 'talk' with each other instead of give each other shit all the time. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 03:40 PM

Could they have passed a budget with the filibuster in the Senate?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 04:05 PM

Guest,999: "....ou folks will have to find a better way to 'talk' with each other instead of give each other shit all the time. IMO."

If you scroll back, I posted some extremely thoughtful, informative posts...to which I am being confronted with by abject nonsense. I thought, I was being as polite as possible, in the light of that! How would you deal with such block headed, non-stop crap?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 04:19 PM

Hi, GfS: I have been ignoring it for the most part.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 05:48 PM

That's just it... Jack hit the nail on the head... Just about everything that the Repubs blame Obama for doing or not doing we things that the Repubs blocked him from doing or not doing...

As for growning up, GfinS... I might not ever grow up but I certainly have a full understanding of American history, political science and economics, all of which I am certified to teach at a high school level...

Google up "1937/FDR"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 06:05 PM

Bobert: "Just about everything that the Repubs blame Obama for doing or not doing we things that the Repubs blocked him from doing or not doing..."


Well, with both Houses and the Presidency, for the
Republicans to able to block THAT.....there must have been some REAL dizzy nut-balls on the Democrat side!
Maybe their marching orders were to do nothing! As long as you're spasmodically spraying 'blame' in every direction....!

I bet if the Democraps, were as busy taking care of business, as they are finding targets to blame, shit!...we'd have a new country!
let's knock off the blame-game, OK..its not working, anymore. We are beyond that!....let me see, let me look at the President's budget proposal......oops, there isn't one...never was....but I bet you his golf scores are pretty good!

Hey, if you like him, vote to re-elect him..if you bear the embarrassment!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 06:30 PM

This isn't a discussion, it's a shit-flinging contest.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 06:34 PM

I never said that I supported the Tea Party's methodology, one way or another...just to keep the record straight, OK? So let's not 'assume' and put words in my mouth,(or on the screen).

I didn't put words in your mouth, I said that you seem to supporting their brinkmanship with our economy. The reason I said that was because you responded somewhat negatively to suggestions from others about different ways to handle the situation, and you said, ". . . when you hear the debate about 'raising the debt ceiling' that issue is merely widening our ability to afford more borrowing . . ." which sounds like you were agreeing that we shouldn't have raised the debt ceiling, which sounds like Tea Party bullshit. I apologize if I misconstrued your lack of clarity.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 07:15 PM

No, GfinS... If the Dems had this much hatred for the country and for George Bush they could have made things miserable for him by using the parliamentary loopholes in congressional rules to gum up Congress just as the Repubs have done...

We have never seen this level of hatred and obstruction in our life times by an opposition party...

The last time there was this much hatred and animosity was in the 1860 election when the Southern Democrats told Lincoln to "Fuck off, we're outta here..." We know how that turned out...

The worst part about this is that Obama's policies have been purdy much "old fashion Republican", his Affordable Care Act almost exactly like Mitt Romney's in Massachusetts which leads to the question of "Why so much vile and hatred and Southern governors talking about succession???" I mean, this is way over the top...

It leads an ***serious*** student of American history to the conclusion that this vile hatred comes from nothing more than a Jim Crow mentality... We heard Sarah Palin supporters yelling "Hang him" just as the Klan used to do... We've heard the "2nd amendment remedies"...

This is coming from one side ***only***... No "both side" like you like to ***proclaim***...

Google up "Greensboro Massacre" after you Google up "1937/FDR" and learn something new... Right now, you are flailing with Repub-speak and bumper sticker pablum... I mean, gosh, get some education before pontificating about stuff that you barely have any understanding of...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:01 PM

Well, I don't care what 'group' said it....we NEED to cut spending..and spending tax money needlessly on INTEREST on loans that we can't pay back. just for a 'wild' experiment, go out tomorrow, and go shopping, using ONLY your credit card...buy EVERYTHING you want to make life comfortable for yourself, and while you're at it, put ALL your bills on that card.....betcha' the card company cuts you off before the day is out!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:27 PM

This isn't a discussion, it's a shit-flinging contest. That's what GfS does when there is politics.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:28 PM

The only weed eater in our family was a present to the wife from her dad. What does that make me?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:40 PM

Bottom line, GfinS is exactly what what you said, "I don't care"...

Well, having knowledge of history, government and economics makes you want to care...

Get some education and then maybe you'll get beyond bumper sticker slogans...

I've given you 2 things to Google and if you were to do that then maybe I'd think that you are trying to find some real world justifications for your policy positions... But you don't seem to want to learn anything???

Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 11:40 PM

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions! How come you guys insist on putting words in people's mouths, then go on to debating what was never said??? I thought that old hat trick would have worn out it's purpose. So, do you have a 'ghost writer'? This is sounding all too familiar!
Hey, you like the rudderless direction the ship of fools are taking us, well, goodie goodie..vote for them again....but don't expect things to get better....and for goodness sakes, ignore the last two years...where things certainly got better, didn't they?
Good Grief!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:46 AM

Oh Yeah, I forgot..If you got a better guy, vote for him....now try to get him re-elected without bashing, and trying to point blame on the rest of the planet!...Just vote for your guy...hell, I don't care if you burn incense to his picture....and you still won't get it when you can't afford to buy the stuff!..yeah I know..It was the Tea Party fault..No, it was the Republicans fault.....no..its Conservatives....Wait!..its all that damn Palin bitch....no..it was Bush's fault!..no, no, no, we couldn't get our runaway bloated credit extended...its John Boehner's fault....Mommy, Bobby pinched me!..and 95% of all forest fires are caused by trees!..it was their fault..Mommy, their all ganging up on me!
Well rest assured that our fearless leader will lead us through....like he has been...cough cough...gag...dry heave.....and chow gets blown across the room!...I know, let's turn on MSNBC and find out who we should blame today!!!
Oh waaaah!, the electricity has been cut off.....Damn Tea party!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:08 AM

Aha! We have finally discovered the secret to building a perpetual motion machine: political threads on Mudcat Cafe.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:43 AM

I thought it was "The Mother of all BS threads".....Hey?? ..Where am I ???...Where's my computer??.....Wait, Little Hawk!!!!!.............................................................................................IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I should have known!
What a mess!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 10:46 AM

Reality is that the Fall of 2008 was the FINAL EXAM for Reaganomics and how'd that trun out, GfinS... Yet, the Tea Party wants Reaganomics on crack??? Can't get enough of Reaganomics, they can't...

Reaganomics is the Somalian econmic model, BTW... No central government... Just millions of John Galts running around a failed state trying to survive...

No thanks to a failed state... If this is what you like then Somalia is looking for you... Bring cash!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:01 PM

I wonder could we all club together and send FFS on a course on writing and punctuation? Half the time I simply cannot follow what he is trying to say or to see if there is indeed a rational train of thought in there. At least I can usually understand PDQ even if I think he is a dangerous lunatic.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:04 PM

Gotta disagree with you, Richard. PDQ's politics may differ from yours or mine, but he is a decent person.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:12 PM

I am the closest thing Mudcat has to a normal blue collar American.

Sorry if that bothers a few people.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 12:44 PM

Really PDQ, I thought you had at least a BS and a management position. If I had to guess I would say that Catspaw and Mick are much closer to a blue collar mentality and way of life.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:34 PM

Well, I might have a couple college degrees but I've been in construction for the last 7 years doing rehabs of old buildings... That's purdy blue collar...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:41 PM

Yeah Bobert. I knew Spaw fixed cars and Mick is a Union Man, I wasn't sure what you did. But from what you said, your collars seems quite a bit bluer than a man who seems to be an oil industry consultant.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 01:58 PM

Bobert's credentials as a Blue collar American are impecable.

It's his politics that take some getting used to.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 02:15 PM

What makes you more blue collar than him?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 02:38 PM

Oddly, my experience of blue collar workers is that they have the same diversity of politics - and everything else - as everyone else. What possible difference does it make?

PDQ, tell us how the Tea Party's economic model has any chance of working, given the complete lack of success the basic theory has produced so far.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:17 PM

pdq: "It's his (Bobert)politics that take some getting used to....)
Bobert: "..Reality is that the Fall of 2008 was the FINAL EXAM for Reaganomics and how'd that trun out, GfinS.."


...and had the Democrats, been open to the will of the American people, they would have avoided a landslide in ALL areas, in the upcoming elections, that is going to wash them out clean! ..and just like you ignored common sense, when I've posted to you, so have they. You guys should have listened!
....and you just thought I was 'anti-Democratic Party'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:25 PM

Richard Bridge: "I wonder could we all club together and send FFS on a course on writing and punctuation? Half the time I simply cannot follow what he is trying to say or to see if there is indeed a rational train of thought in there. At least I can usually understand PDQ even if I think he is a dangerous lunatic."

The problem might be with you!! If you re-read your post, first sentence, you said 'FFS'....in case you meant 'GfS'. NO wonder your comprehension is confusing to you!...so save your collection of donations, and send yourself!..(wink)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:55 PM

The problem might be with you!!

Nope, GfS, you really are mostly incomprehensible most of the time. I hear you talking on music threads about practice, practice, practice, and LEARN YOUR INSTRUMENT! I agree completely. The exact same thing is true of learning to use the written word, and you haven't done so. Your writing usually makes you look like an idiot, whether or not your meaning has any intelligence. Your posts would have a lot more impact if it was really clear what you were trying to say. As it is, most people get part way through what you write and have such a hard time following you that they give up and move on. You are, perhaps, as bad at this as anyone I've seen.

Think about how you would feel in a jam session with a bunch of people who act like they know what they're doing, but one of them is out of tune, out of rhythm, plays way too loud, and puts all the chord changes in the wrong places. And won't leave the room, or admit he has anything to learn about music.

Note: A typo is not the same as illiterate syntax, lack of clarity, and faulty punctuation.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 03:58 PM

Is that why your replies are so fucked up?? I just thought it was your outlook on life!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 04:25 PM

Actually, John, aside from my satirical last post(ala 'Black Adder'), I'll be a bit more careful for ya'...I certainly wouldn't want to be misconstrued.....being as some people on here re-phrase, and put words in my mouth, anyway!....Besides, I wouldn't want anyone, to misunderstand how much I think they are misguided, as well, either!!!
Wink!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 04:32 PM

Good advice from John P., there, GfS, if you really want people to read what you post.

Run-on sentence generally indicating that the system is not working, and expressing general malaise with the world, along with contempt for anyone else who may comment, leavened with snide comments and personal insults at others on the thread, and then, when it finally reaches about a page and a half, with no major clause evident and with no paragraph breaks or puntuation, whatever punctuation there is appears to have been applied with a double-barrelled shotgun loaded with commas, periods, excamation points, and strings of dots and dashes (and Morse code doesn't really help with that).

No, GfS, your screeds are not easy to read. I have worked as a news director at a radio station (KORD, Tri-Cities, Washington--ABC network affiliate) and a technical writer and editor under contract to a government agency (BPA, under the DOE), and even I have difficulty deciphering what it is you're trying to say, and I've had to decode some real doozeys!!

DO put some effort into trying to be coherent.

(Smile) (Wink Wink)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 05:18 PM

Is that why your replies are so fucked up?? I just thought it was your outlook on life!

This is a good start, GfS! Short sentences which each express one thought are your friend. I have no problem perceiving what you are trying to say here. Now if you could only learn about how your insults indicate incompetent communication you'd be on the way to being a viable discussion partner.

Note: Ad hominem attacks are generally regarded amongst REAL communicators as signs of faulty reasoning, bad writing, stupid tactics, and generally not being able to argue your points effectively.

Note two, just to continue your much-needed education: Ad hominem attack refers to attacking the people you are debating with instead of addressing the points under discussion. It's a well-known communication faux pas.

Note three, since it's impossible to tell just how illiterate you actually are: Faux pas is a phrase meaning, loosely, that you made a public error that you should have known better than to make.

Really, how would you feel if you were in a jam session with a musical incompetent who insisted on playing with good players, played too loud, didn't pay attention to what was going on, and wouldn't go away?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 07:36 PM

Recommended books:

First of all, a good dictionary. Merriam-Webster is good (accurate definitions, and much of the broadcast industry uses it both for definitions and as a pronunciation guide for announcers and newscasters).

A couple of style manuals. On the shelf above my desk, within easy reach, I have the Chicago Style Manual and the New York Times Manual of Style and Usage. Both of these are available on-line, but it's better by far to have hard-copies at hand. I also have an excellent volume entitled Getting the Words Right:   How to Revise, Edit, and Rewrite (from a quote by Ernest Hemingway when he was asked why he had rewritten the last chapter of one of his novels twenty-nine times: "I was just trying to get the words right.").

An absolute must is a small volume that is essential to anyone who wants or needs to write anything beyond a "twitter" and have the words understandable to fellow humans who speak English:   Elements of Style, by William Strunk, Jr. and E. B. White, known among writers as, simply, "Strunk and White."

These should be readily available in any well-appointed book store, and most certainly through Amazon.

But beyond this, none of this will really help unless you have a clear idea of what it is you are trying to say. Mere grunts will not suffice.

No need to thank me. I'm always glad to help.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 08:14 PM

Well yeah, GfinS's writings have gone downhill since she has fallen into the Tea-cult but she vacillates on even that "fact"... One day she's all Tea-cultist and the next day the problem is me or both parties or little green men climbing out of that space ship in her front yard...

She's like mercury (the element) in that she squishes out in any direction she thinks might sound plausible... She really is rudderless other than she hates Democrats... That kinda tells me that she is a clueless Republican who refuses to just step up and admit it...

The default argument in her repertoire is that "both parties" are the same... Yes, in our history this was very much the case... I worked two elections for the Green Party and that was a song-'n-dance routine that was fresh and relevant in those days but those days are long gone and the game has changed...

I mean, if folks can't see the difference between the parties today then Helen Keller could give them lessons in sight... Yeah, as an ol' Greenie, I hate it but that's reality...

As for GfinS making any sense in threads like this??? It won't happen because she is unwilling to learn any new material so we get worn out stuff from elections long ago and we get typical Republican-speak...

In other words??? Keep your day job, GfinS...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:08 PM

It strikes me that if there is no difference between political parties, then it should make no difference whether one votes for Barack Obama for a second term or (scary but possible prognostication here) Michele (God help us!!) Bachmann.

I had high hopes for Obama when he was first elected. He has had absolutely vicious and irrational opposition on everything he has tried to do, but even so, I really wish he would grow a spine and stop seeking compromises with those who, out of sheer cussedness, have absolutely no intention of giving an inch.

Knowing (disgusting, but unfortunately true--UNLESS we were to go to a preferential voting system, but when both current parties agree to that, there'll be ice hockey in Hell!) that third parties don't stand a chance under our present system—and especially in the current political climate—it's pretty much between Obama and whoever the Republicans put up, possibly (shudder!) Michele Bachmann.

If Bachmann were to win, I think I would move to Somalia and take my chances. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:22 PM

Well, Don, think about it this way... The Somalian economic model is Reaganomics on Crack... lol...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:29 PM

This is a crack up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:34 PM

Well, at least there, the pirates don't try to pretend that they're anything but what they actually are.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:43 PM

Yup, Don... You got it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 11:34 PM

Don, (Moe)Well, for a "... I have worked as a news director at a radio station (KORD, Tri-Cities, Washington--ABC network affiliate) and a technical writer and editor under contract to a government agency (BPA, under the DOE),....", you sure can't quote your sources when asked to verify your 'reporting'....when 'called out', because your info was all screwed up! What is that?..Years of being in the misinformation business??! Now you round up the 'big brains', and want to re-live being a 'political activist'??..Holy Shmoley! Well, I guess its an alternative to growing old graciously!

And Bobert, (Larry)...Two degrees and you made it to 'social worker'??..Then bitch, piss and moan that your kids don't seem to want to amount to much?? Sounds like some serious under achieving going on in that crew!!
Then, in the former Tea Party thread I ran your posts, five of them to be exact, through the 'Bullshit Detector' that analyzes texts for unneeded 'bullshit', (I can link it for you, in case you missed it), and it said that it could not recognize YOUR texts as a decipherable English text!!!.........Two degrees?????????..in what?? ..Food stamps?

and John P. (Curly), Look at the short sentences. See Spot. John plays with Spot. See Spot run. John runs from Jane. He likes Spot. Just like his Spot.

...and I betcha' you all understood!

By the way, before this inflames, I won't be escalating any rebuttals, in keeping with the 'mods' wishes. We already did that. So let the 'Nasty Spot', run away.

But it was cute of you!

Waving,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 11:43 PM

I do quote my sources, GfS. Not only could your writing use a bit of polishing, your reading ability could use a bit of work.

It's easy enough to make up baseless accusations as you well know. At that, you're an expert.

Ta Ta.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 12:03 AM

Isn't calling people the Three Stooges in a political discussion a personal attack? Could we please get a call from the ref here?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 01:13 AM

JtS(I was wondering when Shemp would show up):Isn't calling people the Three Stooges in a political discussion a personal attack?"

As I said before, I would not escalate any rebuttals....So, I Bade Thee adieu'.

Besides, the fact that it's YOU three...oops...four, I'm flattered!

Adieu'!

Wink!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 01:30 AM

Mote in your eye, GfS?

All that winking.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 10:35 AM

Funny but totally lacking in meat 'n taters... I mean, like cotton candy... Lotta words, no actual substance...

As for my son??? Hey, he works and goes to college and blogs at CNN and knows more about American History, Economics and American Government than you seem to know, GfinS... I mean, if you actually have any understanding of these subjects you certainly are keeping it under wraps...

BTW, ya'll (except GfinS who refuses to learn new stuff) there is a great op-ed by Thomas L. Friedman (New York Times) that appears in this morning's "Charlotte Observer" entitled "The day leaders got unstuck"... A very good read and shouldn't piss anyone with average intelligence off...

Bobert (Larry)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 12:09 PM

My feelings are hurt   |-(

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:16 PM

Smarter than I thought !

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:34 PM

Super Committee Argument

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 04:18 PM

GfinS, I quote my sources consistently throughout (including quoting YOU, which, if you will recall, you did not like at all!). And during my stint as news director at the radio station, rather than me quoting my sources, I used what are known as "actualities." I would TAPE the source and use that in the newscast. So my sources were speaking for themselves.

There are three newscasters and commentators whom I admired very much. Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, and Daniel Schorr.

You either don't read very carefully, or you are given to prevaricate.

Tell you what, GfinS; study THIS for awhile.

Then study THIS.

When you can tell one from the other, you'll be better equipped to converse with the intelligent, well-informed folks that you liken to the Three Stooges.

Don Firth      (^o^)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 05:24 PM

'shrooms, anyone???

Never mind...

Larry Stooge;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 06:10 PM

The Tea Party has controlled the conversation in the US Congress, Obama, playing right into it with this ridiculous idea of cutting social programs in the middle of a depression, cozying up to ideologues for the sake of "can't we all get along", who have preachers and demagogues pulling their strings and being exploited by the Koch Brothers and every other corporate fascist that robs the American taxpayer, poor and working class.

The gang of 12, sounding like a mafia organization, will reach a quick stalemate that solves nothing and do you think you can trust the Congress from keeping their grubby hands off of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, not to mention educational programs, fixing infrastructure, unemployment insurance, and allowing the Pentagon free access to the taxpayer's pocketbook for useless incursions into foreign countries, promoting torture
throughout the world?

The Tea Party is rightly named as "The Mad Tea Party" out of Alice and Wonderland.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 07:24 PM

Well, if that's the case, Strings, and I agree that that is what most likely will happen, then Defense will get automatic across the board cuts and that is going to piss off a lot of big $$$ Republican donors...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 09:47 PM

The Tea Party has done damage to America, but they will fail as have all fringe groups. The stock market will return to normal within four months, and the notion of democracy will revive as people begin to realize the TP deluded them. I think Americans are smart enough to read between the lines, even if many folks have some difficulty reading what's being said. Anyway, that's my new year's prognosstication/proggnostication/proggnosstication guess, fwiw.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 10:03 PM

They have already failed, Brucie... They are just to dumb to know it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 10:54 AM

Bobert, remember that the cuts don't include revenue that could be provided by the wealthy tax evaders. Some of the Repubs such as Paul don't care or would support tax cuts for the Pentagon.

There is no guarantee by this president or any other member of Congress that Medicare, Social Security or Medicaid will not be tampered with through the gang of 12, one way or another.

Right now, 999, damage is continuing in America and the only way for the stock market to rise is with consumer confidence and that's not there. The Tea Party are blaming the wrong institutions. Wall Street is not on their side and will use them and spit them out. The wealthy CEO's are using the Tea Party to retain their wealth at the expense of the populace.

Fortunately, all this is unsustainable as we slip into a double dip recession or further depression. The entire world is feeling the effects of a recalcitrant Republican Congress and until we vote them out of office and replace them with rational Democrats (not much in evidence these days), the US is headed for a downward slide which might result in the future by Americans with sense taking back their economy from the Fascist Oligarchs. Things will have to get a lot worse, first.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 11:05 AM

Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid

Should be tampered with. Warren Buffett doesn't need it. He should pay for his own.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Aug 11 - 01:44 PM

Was just a guess.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 11:25 AM

Warren Buffett is honest enough to say that he should be taxed instead of the money being taken out of Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. The Republicans won't allow this.
Their goal is to undue the "New Deal" by Roosevelt and make this country into a religious oligarchy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 11:51 AM

BOO!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:29 PM

Hi, GfS. In the spirit of the last bunch of posts, "You misspelled BOOK."

Anyway, I was hoping you'd get yer ass back here.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:50 PM

GfinS thinkin, "Book??? Hmmmmm??? I've heard that word somewhere..."

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:54 PM

Roy Bookbinder, aka "Book".

Now it's a music thread.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Aug 11 - 01:59 PM

Palin Romney crossing paths

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 12:09 AM

Jeez...reading INTO what I posted....it was 'Boo!' as in what a ghost says!
Just thought I'd let you know I was still reading..that's all!..Figured that might 'scare' some of you! (wink)!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 01:02 PM

Guest,999: "Anyway, I was hoping you'd get yer ass back here."

Here, this should help 'kick start' things!!!:

Easy to read, and understand, if you read it using a 'conversational' tone, which it was written, instead of a 'confrontational'!!


Truce…..for just a moment…..because I just found something out, but the Mudcat forum, was off line, for a couple of days, so it had to wait.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong…I'm trying to get this straight….maybe you might help me out.

I must confess something that I think the liberal Obama supporters, might be right in a couple of areas, that could have been overlooked, by some of us …and maybe some things that I thought about, I just have to admit, that the Democrats have been saying, about the Tea Party, and the possibility ,..well… could, be of concern….especially about Michele Bachmann, (main Tea Party Candidate) and what has been said about her Christian 'trip', (which I'm not sure of, at all, one way or the other). Whatever it is, I don't think she would be so radically stupid, as to funnel taxpayers money into religious shit ..do you????.. (but then, these days, one never knows for sure)…. And, that brought up, to me ..and , I suppose you, as well, about the separation of Church and State, which is a VERY strong issue with the 'liberal left', as it should be,…I mean, at least to the point… of NOT using American Taxes, to pay to renovate Christian churches here…even if it did 'create' jobs, for AMERICANS! …you probably remember all the fuss over crosses on Federally funded lands, and stuff like that…. And the 'liberal left' is very much against that kind of stuff…and I'm not criticizing you or them, at all, about that …Fair enough?
Do you think the Tea Party, as 'Conservative' as they are, would sanction, using Tax payer money to build up a religion ?? Or help build up their churches ..and then bitch about the debt ceiling, and taxes, and borrowing, WHILE blaming entitlements, so they want to begin a crusade of cutting benefits??? I think that would show what complete disregard for, at least half of our citizens, and prove what assholes they are, and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are 'out of touch', and 'off the deep end'!! I CANNOT imagine the 'left' letting Bachmann, or the Tea Party get away with that kind of flagrant bullshit! ESPECIALLY NOT the 'left'!! ..NO WAY!!….I would think they (Tea Party) are very committed to that, as well! Can we agree, on that??? ….especially when they are talking about creating jobs, and cutting entitlements, to needy people!   I don't think ANY decent human, would ignore the pleas from people in the street, in need, and then to 'help' them by just fixing up their churches!!! NOBODY could be that GULLIBLE!! I think that we would certainly agree with each other!
The 'left' is saying that we REALLY need to help our poor, in these times of economic and political crisis! I wholeheartedly agree. Where I disagree with Bobert, and Don, and a few others, is that I've said your (our) leaders are bullshitting you, and NOT doing what represents YOU… (assuming we can agree on that issue). OK, that's been my position … Obama, is seen as this 'Messianic' figure, who actually knows what he's doing, to bring 'Change and Hope' to OUR nation's poor. ..Fair enough??
So, they argue to RAISE the ceiling to afford to do that ….and those old 'TEA Party' buggers want it not only capped, but the budget cut back, and de-fund, what they see as, 'stupid' programs, and of course, only want to give money, by way of 'tax cuts', to the rich….. Right??
All that being said, and I'm NOT a member of the Tea party!!…or any party of blind followers!!
OK, Bobert, Don, Jack, or any one else, who is what I've been calling an 'ideologue' who ignores what I call 'corruption', would you care to comment on this, without political spin, on what our leaders should do, or are not doing, in regards to your position on (finish my text, first before clicking)THIS I'm REALLY OPEN!!!! Somebody might have to admit that they were wrong!…about their concepts, or if our leaders should be, and/or are representing the will of the people, in regards to America's poor!!!…and matters of separation of Church and State!!….. Fair Enough??
(You may wish to re-read the text again, after you click the link).

GfS

P.S. Because if 'somebody' can't, or at least stop to think, maybe 'somebody' should be the one doing the listening!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 01:54 PM

Point 1:

770 million sure sounds like a big number, but it is 0.17 percent of the cost of the war in Afghanistan so far. Add Iraq and it is 0.06 percent. Interesting story but it does not begin to really address the problem. It is another distraction which sells papers or attracts viewers by exploiting Islamophobia.


Point 2:

When sacred sites/buildings get to be 1300 years old, they become important cultural/historical sites, not just places of worship.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 02:08 PM

But the same administration turned a deaf ear when the people were pleading for our help....and you by-passed the separation of Church and State question.
Nice try..but your 'points' are really quite pointless!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 02:10 PM

TIA: "When sacred sites/buildings get to be 1300 years old, they become important cultural/historical sites, not just places of worship."

You mean those computers???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 03:41 PM

I think the 'brains' of this outfit, are figuring out how to counter my recent post.....instead of reflecting, that maybe their entire rap is full of shit!
..so their e-mails a-flowing back and forth....but really fellows, would you feel the same if another party wanted to 'restore' the 'religious' historical sites in Israel???..or Tibet??
Just more hypocritical bull crap!

Waving to ya'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 04:16 PM

My points are pointless, eh.
Thoughtful response from one who was just preaching about listening.
You really are not worth interacting with.
None of your characters are.

Maybe *that's* why no one else is taking your smelly bait.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 04:18 PM

Onward, Christian Soldiers....
Perry and Swaggert

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 04:20 PM

What's the matter, TIA, ya' ran out of steam??..or was it just hot air??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 04:24 PM

Police Chief Jane Castor said Jared Cano, 17, had threatened to plant a device at Freedom High School in north Tampa and discharge it on the first day of school Tuesday. He was arrested Tuesday night after someone tipped off police about the plot.

Castor told a news conference that police and the school system "were probably able to thwart a potentially catastrophic event, the likes of which the city of Tampa has not seen, and hopefully never will."

At Cano's home, police found materials to make pipe bombs, including a fuel source, shrapnel, plastic tubing and timing and fusing devices, Castor said. Police also found a journal containing schematic drawings of rooms inside the school and statements about his intent to kill.

Castor said the minute-by-minute plan to bomb the school included his intent to cause more casualties than the 1999 Columbine High School massacre that resulted in the deaths of 13 people before the two shooters killed themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 05:57 PM

I swear, I'm not making this up!!...This just came up on Yahoo News!!...

Obama's New Dilema!!

Bobert must be hiding!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 06:01 PM

GfinS's 1:02 post contains some actual things we agree upon so I give her credit where it is due...

This idea of separation of church and state goes well beyond that in that with vouchers, at least they are being used in some areas on the country, we are using federal funds to allow kids to go to what are virtually segregated schools... Yes, these are church schools but the issue is as much about separation as it is segregation...

So we agree on that...

The constant attacks on Obama, however, by GfinS follow the usual Teapublican talking points that I read daily at the WaPo discussion sites...

But credit to GfinS for a clear thought...

Bob;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 06:01 PM

GfinS's 1:02 post contains some actual things we agree upon so I give her credit where it is due...

This idea of separation of church and state goes well beyond that in that with vouchers, at least they are being used in some areas on the country, we are using federal funds to allow kids to go to what are virtually segregated schools... Yes, these are church schools but the issue is as much about separation as it is segregation...

So we agree on that...

The constant attacks on Obama, however, by GfinS follow the usual Teapublican talking points that I read daily at the WaPo discussion sites...

But credit to GfinS for a clear thought...

Bob;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 06:17 PM

Got plenty.
Not wasting any on an ahole lunatic.
Be sure to make a clever snarky comeback, okay.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 06:37 PM

This Democrat sounds like the people you slur, and fear!!!!

Here's a Democrat, that had it RIGHT!!!!!

Hey Bobert, are you listening???? The Democratic Party, just ain't what you grew up with!!!!

Now let me get this straight........

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 06:47 PM

Hmmmm

and as far as 'nation building'......

..and this!


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 06:53 PM

Are you listening??
Remember, that Vice President, Joseph Biden(D) was the author of the 'Patriot Act' in the mid nineties!!!!!

Compare THIS to NOW!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 02:39 PM

No response??? What? Are you awaiting more 'shock and awe'??..Got plenty more!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 03:04 PM

"Oo wants a nice cuppa tea?" - Olive Whatnoll

One brief comment here. Neither the Democratic nor the Republican parties are the parties we in our 60s remember from when we were kids. They have both been perverted and taken over by huge financial corporate and banking interests. The Republicans are no longer the party of Eisenhower. The Democrats are no longer the party of FDR, Truman, and Kennedy. We are definitely NOT in Kansas, Toto.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 03:24 PM

Well, Little Hawk, how did you get so fucking smart??? I wonder why some of the others haven't flashed that yet?
I found a few more links that should cause some of the ninnies to REALLY question the 'way things are'!....but they don't, they just blindly follow along like disembodied lemming automatons! ..spouting complete nonsense, completely detached from reality, as to what has happened in our country...and yet, they CHOOSE to stay blissfully ignorant....and of course, their music reflects it!
BTW, I'm getting radio airplay, and on rotation, and have a concert to do Saturday....so I've used some of this time to not be on as much. frankly, I'm buried in busy, but I'll still post, when I can. the fortunate thing about 'Mudcat Forum' being down for a few days, is I managed to do some research, so I can post 'informative' links, that are not skewed with conspiracy theory shit, but consistent with what I already know. Maybe I'll post some, but there is a 'warning'...it might shed some light on the 'change' and therefore, some minds might follow suit. Here, let me cut and paste a quote, from one source:

Q: JL, JFK, RFK, Malcolm X, MLK and many others were all killed because they all preached peace and harmony to all men, and they all were assassinated for it. The question is: why would preaching peace get you killed and who or what organization would want to silence these people???

A: The people who profit from war.

Kennedy was a good president, that is why 'they' murdered him. Nobody murdered BUSH or even tried to (except the shoe-throwing thing, but that doesn't count). Kennedy had made plans to END the Vietnam war, END the corrupt Federal Reserve, END the dangerous and terrorist CIA, and many other positive decisions. Kennedy was working for the interests of the people and against the criminal organizations that run America. So of course when they killed JFK, they blamed it on 'a lone nut.'

I am tired of bad and evil men running America. Whenever America gets a good man in power or a good man who could enter into a position of power, 'they' always make sure to kill those people such as JFK, RFK, MLK, JL and JFK Jr...

Without LBJ as vice-president Kennedy would not have been murdered because as history has revealed, LBJ had some kind of involvement in the killing. He had a motive (he was next in line for the top job), he had the means and he had the opportunity. His mistress even quoted LBJ as saying: "Those Kennedys will never embarrass me again" which implies a whole lot and his mistress said that when LBJ made that statement, he was not bluffing, and it was a promise.

"Two witnesses told the team they saw George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush at the Essex County, New Jersey airport with Israeli Mossad agent Michael Harari and another Mossad agent who were both seen standing next to JFK Jr.s Cessna--all four were at the airport just two days before the doomed plane took off with JFK, Jr., his pregnant wife and her sister "

But when John Kennedy Junior's plane was overdue to arrive at its destination, many hours had passed before Search and Rescue aircraft were sent to look for the missing plane despite the fact that it had on board a functioning ELT device. Does this indicate that there was a cover-up?

Kennedy not only talked about change -- he made it happen. The Oil Depletion Allowance was to be slashed, organized crime had begun to be prosecuted by a zealous Justice Department, even the CIA was upset with Kennedy.

Kennedy had made it clear that the CIA was to gather intelligence, as described in their charter, but were not to propose or promote policies. He was so angry with their performance in Vietnam and Cuba that he openly talked about dissolving the organization.

"If the United States ever experiences an attempt at a coup to overthrow the government, it will come from the CIA. The agency represents a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone."
--JFK

Yes, a storm was brewing. Guests of the Del Charro were ready to do something. Then, one evening just before Kennedy was invited to Dallas, they did it.

I wish that the people of Texas had protested back in 1963 against the blatant coverup of the first Kennedy assassination and against the mob, corrupt politicians and oil men who were involved in the coverup, the deadly deed itself and the exploitation of Texans.

" I don't think any of those two is inspiring enough to be a leader... I am not impressed. The US needs a new JFK in these hard times. "

The powers that be will never allow a JFK-quality leader to be elected ever again. Leaders like JFK, RFK, JFK Jr. and MLK are a threat to the 'powers that be' and they will be killed (case in point). Nowadays they just prevent them from winning by using the media to marginalize them, preventing electoral wins like they did to all the anti-war candidates this US election.

Paul, Kucinich and Gravel all opposed the illegal US wars and as a result, they were ALL blacklisted in the US media, ridiculed and reported on as little as possible.

Obama is not a JFK-quality leader, but he COULD become one if he sees the evil in the powers that be and changes course for the better as Kennedy did.

The Kennedy assassination is just as blunt and lame as the 911 coverup!!
And many idiots will believe it for the rest of their lame lives!

QUIT THE DENIAL PEOPLE!!

Our planet Earth has become an evil place because good people do nothing and stay silent in the face of evil."

Wishing you well!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 03:50 PM

Oh, in case you might not know about 'Del Charro'........there are other links


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 04:13 PM

Interesting! Guest from the Asylum, I took a fairly long sentence from your post above and cut-and-pasted it into the Google search box. I came up with some 4,140 hits in total, but leading the list was the Illuminati web site. Loaded with conspiracy theories—and the Illuminati are something of a conspiracy theory in themselves.

Since the sentence, and much of the rest of it, was in grammatically correct English and correctly punctuated, that was a dead giveaway that you hadn't written it yourself, so I used the same trick that many teachers and professors use when a student turns in an assigned paper and it's obvious that that particular student doesn't have the skills to write a paper that cohesive.

Cut-and-paste.

But your cut-and-paste job contains the same tired old conspiracy theories.

####

All you do is bitch about how screwed up the country is and how stupid everyone but you is for not acknowledging it—not true, by the way, even if it does let you feel like you're actually intelligent and well-informed (NOT!).

If you actually read—and manage to understand—other people's posts, it should be obvious, even to you, that no one here is "IN DENIAL" about the country's situation.

I challenge you to quit the pissing and moaning and come up with some positive suggestions about what can be done about it.

Anybody can whine and complain. There's no shortage of that. But if you really do have a functioning brain, let's hear you hold forth with some positive and practical suggestions on what people should DO.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 06:05 PM

Other than the fact, that we're not supposed to be posting about or to each other, the post was NOT from an 'Illuminati' site.

As far as what we should do....well, first of all, we should STOP listening to 'political activists' or 'political agitators', find FACTS, and get closer to our families and close friends, and take an active role in our communities, to help people out. Get out of debt, if possible, and don't run up charges. Also, we should get OUT of championing 'hot button' issues, that only serve as a distraction from the bigger issues. Along with that, stop smearing your fellow countrymen, but make an effort to love one another, and help bring peace of mind to one another! Those who are musicians, or artists of a different nature, use your art to manifest the heart and soul of our better inner beings, without pretension.
....and that is just for starters.
How about you? Any suggestions?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 06:59 PM

..and to Bobert, about LBJ being so anti-racist

Might look at this as well

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 07:51 PM

BTW, GfinS... You might have access to Mudcat over the last day or so but many of us haven't so get off that "cat got your tongue" crap...

No, I know that LBJ was a sexist & racist jerk... He was also crude...

But he didn't have to push the Civil Rights Act but he developed a good relationship with Dr. King and for reasons probably only known by Johnson himself, put his and his parties balls on the line and did it... He could have balked... I don't give a flyin' fig about what people "used to be"... I do care about what people do when the chips are down...

LBJ stepped up big time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 08:42 PM

As I said, GfS, I got over 4,000 hits on that sentence, and leading the list was the Illuminati web site. There has obviously been a lot of cutting and pasting going on.

But regarding your answer, GfinS, that's like when you're lost in the woods and haven't a clue as to which way is where, and someone asks you "What do you think we should do?" you respond by saying, "We should see if we can find a trail or road that will take us out of here."

As some teenagers are wont to say, "Well, DUH!!"

My question (challenge) was a serious one, and I expected a serious answer, not pablum.

Don Firth

P. S. If you can't come up with something, I think I can. I'll be back, but due to time constraints at the moment, not right away. But soon.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 10:57 PM

Firth: "My question (challenge) was a serious one, and I expected a serious answer, not pablum."

So was mine, in the other thread. You failed to respond, by providing my 'challenge' and make good on your offer.

Now I WILL NOT revisit that issue..but I DID answer your question, I believe...maybe it wasn't what you were waiting to hear, so you could twist it around(as usual).
Fair enough?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 11:04 PM

Bobert: "LBJ stepped up big time..."

He sure did!

..and collaboration!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 11:15 PM

ALL the links provided are on 'Youtube', not any 'political' site.

Listen carefully!
E Howard Hunt's deathbed confession.

Also, see the notes below this Youtube video. There are some interesting links!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 12:38 AM

"RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread..."

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.

RK

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 02:51 AM

You're doing it again, GfS. I did answer your question on the other thread. You didn't like my answer, so you just refuse to acknowedge that FACT.

And speaking of facts, the simple fact is that you don't have an answer to my challenge. All you want to do is bitch. Any half-wit can whine and complain and call names. It takes someone with some intelligence to work out a solution to a problem.

Your behavior is typical of a [CLICKY].

Don Firth

P. S. You spend an awful lot of time on these threads. But it does work out well for some. Another CLICKY.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 04:08 AM

Hey, with all due respects, I'm NOT going there, nor am I going to get sucked up in engaging in barrage of arguments. Let's be cool. Joe stated, in no uncertain terms, that the escalation was not to go on, between us. So dig, I'm going to go with that, OK? Besides YOU'RE the one who organized all the complaining with e-mails...so, that's what you get.

Now aside from that, you DID ask me about 'what should we do?'..or something like that....well, you called it 'pablum', but it's really a bit deeper than you think.

I went down to rehearse, and while I was there, I DID give it some serious thought, about how to accurately answer your inquiry. So I came up with the basis for the premise....and if you look at my original answer, (which, BTW, was not answered sarcastically), you'll see, that BEFORE anyone goes about 'changing society', the changing must FIRST take place within us, as we BECOME the 'society we are changing'.

I know I hit the forum with a barrage of input, ('shock and awe')..it was to make a few folks in here, CONSIDER the possibility, that 'things just ain't what you thought they were'....but that is NOT an attack of anyone's intellect, but rather, an expose, of 'who's who in the zoo', and a lot of the beliefs that we've had, are based on the manipulations of what a lot of deception, has created, within our society.

Just look, how America, and it's psyche has changed since that event.
As it is now, this country is all divided up into factions, political, religious or both, ...plus any other number 'class factions', and everybody is at each others throats...and it doesn't have to be, now does it?

Hey, its late..I will continue, but I'll get back, to you.
I'll give you a little to chew on, till I get back,OK?

I think it's a given, that America will go invade somebody for it's own interests, whether it be oil, or minerals, or whatever. Consider, just for a moment, all the wars, we have had, since Nov.22,'63. What was a 'product' in ALL the countries, we've been engaged with? Keep in mind now, that Nov.22,'63, was an event staged by, the factions in the intelligence community, big oil, and elements of organized crime. Think it through..I gotta knock off. Get back to you later.

'Be nice, or you'll end up in my latest novel!' (wink!)

GfS

P.S. If you think of a few things, post them up. Everybody is invited, by the way!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 12:31 PM

I am aware of that conspiracy theory, GfinS.... It been around for decades... And, I will admit that there is a very slim chance that LBJ was involved...

That is not my point... My point is that Johnson, regardless of his other sins of which there were many, gets ***credit*** for pushing thru the Civil Rights Act... I mean, you seem to have this black 'n white mentality where you can not or will not allow yourself to see the good in otherwise bad people... Life isn't that simple...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 01:49 PM

The problem with JFK's speech is that it was delivered in a time of prosperity where the GDP was high and jobs weren't scarce.

I would rather Obama listen to FDR as the times of his administration and Obama's are similar, America teetering on a depression economy. JFK benefited from FDR's financial policies which left important safety nets in place and when corporate interests (oligarchical) were regulated judiciously.

Every politician talks about lowering taxes to get elected, a propaganda cliche that resonates regardless whether doing so would hurt the economy.

"Read my lips" we are headed for Double Dip for lack of revenue.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 02:13 PM

Bachmann's foreign (policy?)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 08:46 PM

Strings, what a spin you got going there!
For what it's worth, Obama just gave a speech, where he claimed that he had the economy doing well, and then we hit a period of 'bad luck'! Can you believe that????? I think he must be on Bachmann's election committee, with saying stupid stuff like that!

As far as hapless Bobert, and your trip about LBJ, having 'nothing' to do with the events of Nov.22,'63, compared to a deathbed confession, by an admitted participant, who points to LBJ as also a participant, and LBJ's mistress, saying that he said THE NIGHT BEFORE, that 'after tomorrow...', indicating that he had foreknowledge, the only 'theory' going, is that he had nothing to do with it!!....and ALL this time, you thought E. Howard Hunt, was 'just Nixon's guy'!!!
..Besides, given the two examples, that I just gave, and your wishful thinking, which would any rational human go with??
"Wishing in one hand, and shittin' in the other, which do you think will fill up first?"

OK, back to my other question, about our 'wars', and the products that we were after, I was hoping to see some thoughts on it, but I also thought, after I got off the computer, last night, not only what products were we after, but what products were we selling? Come on, now, take a stab at it....and is there much difference today? Most of us are 'anti-bullshit wars', you're on safe ground, now!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 09:09 PM

Put your tin foil hat back on, GfinS...

Ain't nothing "hapless" about me... There's nothing that you can say that I haven't heard... It's all either conspiracy or Tea Party... Silly me, they are both the same...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 10:09 PM

Bobert: "Put your tin foil hat back on, GfS......Silly me"

one more time!!!!

and .....
Just for fun......and about as much sense as any poilitcal crap.

Hope you got a chuckle. I just wanted to return the favor!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 10:23 PM

Pat Paulson for President!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 12:55 AM

Well THAT would be an improvement!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 09:27 AM

Bad, GfinS, bad...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 09:38 AM

"Pat Paulson for President!!!

B~"

Bobert, Paulsen died over 14 years ago. However, even now he would be an improvement over some presidents the US has had. He certainly would be an improvement in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 10:58 AM

And there's precedent! Mel Carnahan beat Ashcroft in 2000, if y'all recall.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 01:39 PM

Bobert: "Bad, GfinS, bad..."

Beats the 'tin foil hat' rebuttal!

Problem is, I've been right calling quite a few shots, ans posted them on here, BEFORE they happened...How do you think that happened???

Nobody wants to take a stab at my question, about what did all our wars, have in common, about WHY we went there, and what products were we importing and exporting, since Dallas, Nov. 22, '63. I'm amazed! Either people don't give a shit, or don't know...but it's the reason we're in the mess we're into today!...Oh well.........

Regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Andrez
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 07:08 PM

How about just ending th driel in this thread as well!

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 07:23 PM

Sorry, I missed the question... All wars since Nov. 22, 1963 have been about geo-politics in order to control other people's resources...

Next question...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 11:02 PM

Exactly so, Bobert.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 12:58 AM

To Bobert and Don, and anyone else, who may be reading:
The question was what 'products' were we after, and what products were we 'selling'? The Geo-political answer is not, the 'products', but rather, a typical generic..and not very far thought out answer. In other words, what did Vietnam, Iran, Central America, Panama, regions in South America, Afghanistan, Pakistan ..and of course, Iraq have in common?? Keep in mind, that Kennedy wanted out of Vietnam, and was not happy with the 'Bay of Pigs' idea, before the launch of it....and remember he wanted to do away with the 'Fed', and opposed 'secret excursions'....especially, by who?..and co-incidentally, who, as even the Warren Report, 'mentions', as did These Guys and and these guys
, point to?
Put it all together, and Voila!
Could give you a giant hint, but we'll wait to see what you may come up with. Remember, I'm NOT against you!..but rather FOR the truth, and really don't like 'corruption' in government!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 01:07 AM

Looks like we're dipping into conspiracy theories again.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:35 AM

Just because paranoia makes you think you're being followed doesn't mean you aren't.


Can recall where I got that line.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:07 AM

Bruce- I'm pretty sure it's Yossarian in Catch 22 & more like "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you", but you'd have to check; I'n not an expert on Heller.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:14 AM

Don, It has NOTHING to do with 'conspiracy theories'. Maybe the 'conspiracy theory' that YOU believe has more to do with the 'conspiracy' to re-write HISTORY, to keep the people in the dark. Ever think about that??..Besides, weren't you in that line of work at one time, either willingly, or possibly unwittingly. No jab or offense intended...but DIS-information, from the government, is not a myth. Don't you think when they release 'disinformation' that they are 'conspiring' to keep the TRUTH, from the public?? Don't you think that to cover one lie, you have to tell another?? Haven't you had to do the same?...So, it's NOT to far fetched, that behind all the disinformation lies, that the 'perpetrators' have steered things, including our national policies, both foreign and domestic, into events, that caused their own repercussions?...and don't you think they've had to defend against those repercussions? Maybe, it's been so BIG, that American policies, inherited from administration, to administration, backed us into a corner of entanglements, that when Obama blames Bush, you believe him...but the problems Bush inherited, ass well.(even though I believe Bush has been a co-perpetrator). Could it be, that Obama is too?...or briefed on his options? When does a 'maybe' stop being a 'maybe'?...and perhaps, the 'maybe' rap, is just to afford wiggle room, and therefore MORE disinformation.
Give it a thought. Follow the money trail. Do some research on the Iran-Contra affair, the Vietnam (Golden Triangle), Mexico, South American covert ops, Afghanistan, Pakistan.......or why Lt. Col. Oliver North, as he testified at the hearings, why he got involved, and the logic behind the policies. It's all there. I didn't make this up!...It's just that when people have ideological 'leanings' they tend NOT to look at the whole picture, without disregarding the parts that 'infringe' on the 'promoters' of their particular ideological agenda. We got everybody looking everywhere else, disregarding the whole picture, while the perpetrators have gotten away with murder..literally, including ALL the casualties of war, both combatant, and non-combatant.
Should be some interesting thinking for ya'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 12:51 PM

Of course Perry and Bachmann will decide to funnel money into churches of their choice. That's what they profess as far as their religion carries them. Obama has certainly done this with his "faith-based initiatives" so what make you think Perry and Bachmann will suddenly change course? It will be religion on steroids steering toward Republican reaction and supported by two-thirds of the American electorate, most of them believe in the inerrancy of the bible.

Robbing poor and the elderly isn't funny today. It has come true so it's not satire like it was in the Sixties when things were economically better.

As to the role of Johnson in the assassination of Kennedy, I still like the book "Ultimate Sacrifice" by Lamar Waldron and Thom Hartmann which is not a conspiracy theory but hard work research done over ten years. You might agree or disagree with it but it is serious reading.


Disinformation is a way of getting elected, protecting corporations, keeping greed in the hands of an Oligarchy and aiding religious nut-cases who are trying to become president.
What's so shocking about that?

Kennedy and Johnson were dragged kicking and screaming into supporting Civll Rights. That's common information.

The Military Industrial Complex would benefit from a theocratic turn in the presidency, they are actively promoting this in the upper echelons of the military today. Try being a non-believer in the military today and find out what happens to you.

The MIC in the US today is big business and the Tea Party isn't saying boo about that because they not only don't care, they support it.

Who has the temerity to claim that they have an understanding of the "whole picture"?
We are all like the blind man and the elephant. Where's the real information coming from, certainly not Bob Hope or Pat Paulsen, more like Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:16 PM

GfS, what I was doing at the radio station had nothing to do with government "disinformation." As news director for KORD, Tri-Cities, Washington, I worked with local news, not national, which came over the ABC network feed (I had nothing to do with that). I was the one who decided which, out of a whole bunch of stories that came in, would go into the newscasts (five minutes at the top of each hour, plus half-hour newscasts at 7:00 a.m., noon, and 6:00 p.m.). The five-car pile-up on the highway just north of Richland in which two people died got precedence over the cat that got stuck up a tree over in Kennewick.

As to local politics, I made sure that what went out over the air was what the candidates said. The station took no stands. My policy was "report the news."

VERY UNLIKE Fox News Service.

One of the things that job gave me was a sharp nose for bullshit masquerading as news. And that has stood me in good stead over the years since then.

After my stint at KORD in the Tri-Cities, I returned to Seattle and took a job as board announcer at a classical music station (on the strength of the fact that I was thoroughly familiar with the music and I could pronounce names like Gennady Rozhdestvensky and Mstislav Rostropovich without chipping a tooth), and for a great increase in salary.

I was hardly the purveyor of government disinformation that you are trying to make me out to be (and, yes, I DO find that offensive—you don't know me and you have no right to make the kind of assumptions you are making).

What you are saying in your above post is nothing that I haven't been fully aware of for decades. As far as "give it a thought" and "follow the money trail," I wasn't born yesterday. Far from it! And I could probably tell YOU chapter and verse about the Iran-Contra affair and all the rest that you list—and one helluva lot more!

The question, GfS, is not about spending all your time analyzing the greed for power and money—take that as given; 'twas ever thus—but how can ETHICAL and INTELLIGENT people wrest the wheel from the grubby hands of those who are steering the ship of state onto the rocks because they are blinded by the dollar-signs in their eyes?

The Tea Party folks are the last people in the world who are capable of the task. Being mostly fundamentalist Christians, naïvely opposed to the very government regulations that would solve the vast majority of the nation's problems, spittly-spittingly angry at the world in general, and displaying tendencies both to advocate and use violence, these folks are in no mental state to be setting a course of action or choosing national leaders.

NOW is the time for cool, sober thought and careful planning, NOT as you seem to be wont to do, making up falsehoods about people whose goals are, quite probably, essentially the same as your own, along with your penchant for calling them snotty names and showing general contempt just to pump up your own ego.

Okay, GfS, if you know the solution to all of the nation's—and the world's—problems, let's hear it. Now is not the time to play cute and coy.

Dazzle us with your brilliance.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:54 PM

Well, GfinS, dismissing the geo-political reasons for the Unites States wars shows a basic misunderstanding of history... The US has been playing this game going back Teddy Roosevelt...

So Vietnam's location, just south of China with a long navigable coast with 6 or 7 decent ports made it look like nice chess piece to capture during the Cold War days... That's geo-politics and that is why both the French and later the US wanted a permanent foot hold there... That was had very little to do with Communism and everything to do with location, location, location... It didn't hurt that it also had/has a solid agricultural economy able to feed more than it's own people... Not to mention rubber, tungsten, iron ore, coal, natural gas and oil...

The Bosnian War was entered into solidify NATOs grip on eastern Eurpoe to box in the Russians...

The Afgan War was called up because neocons had always wanted a foothold there to build a pipeline to move oil and because George Bush never met a war he didn't like... It was also to be yet another poke in the eye to Russia seein' as the US helped the Taliban run Russia out... As for resources up for grabs??? Tons and tons of lithium (think electric car batteries), cooper, iron, gold, etc... The Washington Post did an article last year about all the minerals underneath Afghanistan... And don't forget the poppy crop...

Iraq is easy... Location, oil, location, oil, location, oil, oil oil and more oil... If you are into trying to run the entire show Iraq is a must chess piece... Just ask any neocon... And yet another War that George Bush couldn't say no to because Karl Rove felt a new and shiny war would help Bush with the 2004 election...

Any other question???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Andrez
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 06:01 PM

Hmm,

I see I need to restate my earlier post and fix the typos. It should have read:

"How about just ending this uninformative drivel in this thread as well"!

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:12 AM

You know what?....I haven't been around of such a bunch of 'unwilling to learn something real' in years! Completely block headed!..so, I think I'll just bow out. Why should I risk myself on your party blindness...besides, most people I know already know this stuff, but we never talk about it, and even they are polarized politically. I think some people prefer to remain either close minded, ignorant, you're working for 'them', or just don't give a hoot. And for what its worth, what I was telling you is absolutely correct...and still I don't think any of the parties have got their fingers on the pulse.

Ciao,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:22 AM

Parting shot check it out on snopes!

GE

General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Waukesha, Wis., to Beijing. In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research centers. This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year. but paid no taxes-the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in the United States.

So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission on job creation (job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs in. If this doesn't show you the total lack of leadership of this President, I don't know what does.

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-LOUVYE1A74E901-5NJ

IS ANYBODY LISTENING? OBVIOUSLY NOT.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 09:46 AM

So, GfinS... Fatcs trumped whatever your latest conspiracy theory was for the US getting in all these wars... You were bluffing and now all you can do is say that we're unwilling to learn... Learn what??? I mean, maybe you know something that historians and.or political scientists don't, I donno.... If you do then maybe you'd like to share it with *US*...

Oh, if it's Ike's warning in his farewell speech about the military industrial complex, that is a given... It all part of the big scheme to keep *US* in constant wars... Yeah, it underlies everything but that is something that Don and Jack and I know all about... It's always there... Big deal... Try stopping it... They'll MLK or RFK you in a heartbeat...

As for GE??? Why do you keep talking about GE??? Never mind... I already know... The right wing is making GE the whipping boy for ***all*** corporate sins because GE's CEO is buddies with Obama... So that is nuthin' but Repub-speak...

Why aren't you talking about Exxon??? Or Boeing??? Or Blackwater???

Never mind... I'll tell you why... Because you Repubs and Tea Partiers can't stand talking about you donors...

Just like George Soros has become your favorite scapegoat when the money he gives Dems looks like chump change compared to the $$$ the Koch brothers and the health insurane lobbies are pumping into the Repub coffers...

This is all just Basic Reality 001 (non-credit remedial reality for the insane)...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 11:36 AM

Obama has not commented on GE's move, Jeffery Immelt aside.

My hope is that a comprehensive job bill requiring the government to hire the unemployed will be offered by Obama in September. If he runs on this, he will be re-elected. If he compromises on this issue, we can expect a Republican nut-case for the presidency.

The Gang of 12 spells disaster for the issue of spending cuts which we absolutely don't need at present. The Tea Party and its ideology will actually bring down this government and we'll have to shovel out of decades of poverty, unemployment, and economic inequality. And all this because these Tea Party wing-nuts want their Christian rapture.

Perry and Bachmann are Tea Party heads. The New Apostolic Reformation will be running our country if Perry gets in. Check that out.

Check out these names: Rousas John Rushdoony, John Nelson Darby, Abraham Vereide (from Norway), Francis Schaeffer, Douglas Coe, Muthee, Eidsmore, Oral Roberts University,Pat Robertson's Regent University and be very afraid.

Get educated people!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 12:48 PM

Right on, Strings...

Obama needs to go big!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:04 PM

When challenged to reveal his august knowledge to we ignorant peasants, suddenly GfS once again calls us all a bunch of brainwashed ignoramuses and says he can't waste any more of his/her precious time on us.

All of which boils down to a simple fact:

S/He's got NUTHIN'!!

Just another loudmouthed gas-bag.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:25 PM

Yup, Don, she's holding a pair of deuces and betting like she's got a full house???

But I am curious as to which conspiracy theory she was going to pull on us... Maybe the "100 mpg carburetor"??? Maybe the "The world is controlled by 5 men"??? Maybe "Obama is from Mars"???

Guess we'll never know now... Shucks!!! I was so looking forward to a good fallin'-down-holdin'-my-sides-uncontrollable-laugh...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:20 PM

The Chihuahua stands there yapping at a pride of lions until the lions get tired of all the racket, take a look at this pathetic little snack, and let out a loud roar. Then, the Chihuahua dumps its load in sheer terror and goes kye-yiping over the hill.

I guess we'll never learn how we can all save the world. Tsk tsk.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:34 PM

....and the beat goes on...

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 03:26 PM

1- Don: "The Chihuahua stands there yapping..(blah blah)
2- Don: "..until the lions get tired of all the racket..(Blah blah)
3- Don: "take a look at this pathetic little snack, and let out a
          loud roar.
4- Don: " Then, the Chihuahua dumps its load in sheer terror
          and goes kye-yiping over the hill." (Blah blah)
5- Bobert: "Yup, Don, she's holding a pair of deuces and betting like
          she's got a full house" (Blah blah)
6- Bobert: "But I am curious as to which conspiracy theory she was
          going to pull on us..." (blah blah)
7- Bobert: "Maybe the "100 mpg carburetor"??? Maybe the "The world is
          "controlled by 5 men"??? Maybe "Obama is from Mars"???
8- Bobert: "Shucks!!! I was so looking forward to a good fallin'-
          down-holdin'-my-sides-uncontrollable-laugh..."
9- Don: "When challenged to reveal his august knowledge to we
          ignorant peasants"..(Blah blah)
10- Don: "S/He's got NUTHIN'!!" (Blah blah horseshit!)
11- Don: "Just another loudmouthed gas-bag.' (blah blah)
12- Bobert: "..I mean, This is all just Basic Reality 001 (non-credit remedial reality for the insane)...maybe you know something that historians
          and.or political scientists don't, I donno..." (Blah blah)
13- Bobert: "So, GfinS... Fatcs trumped whatever your latest
          conspiracy theory was.." More blah blah)
14- Bobert: "So that is nuthin' but Repub-speak..." (Blah blah)
15- Boobert: "..Never mind... I'll tell you why... Because you Repubs
          and Tea Partiers can't stand talking about you donors..."
16- Bobert: "...This is all just Basic Reality 001 (non-credit
          remedial reality for the insane)..." Blah blah blah)

16 slurs and NOT ONE FACT..Great rebuttal guys!! I guess that's your way of saying you got the shit knocked out of you!.....However Boobert did make one TRUE statement that made sense....
Bobert: "suddenly GfS once again calls us all a bunch of brainwashed ignoramuses and says he can't waste any more of his/her precious time on us."


Stringsinger, though we have disagreed, here and there, was the ONLY one of you, who could ask a legitimate question, or make a comment without a slur, or insult. Though we may have a difference, hats off to you!!...SO....

I was talking to my friend, and he told me about this link. He is EXTREMELY 'Progressive' and he is thoroughly disgusted in this administration....so I watched the video(which is around two hours long), and was blown away, BUT it is also VERY consistent, with what I was saying. They even alluded to the change came AFTER the death of JFK!!...AND mentions about the jobs (GE) going overseas, to China. So I'm going to post it for you. It is NOT favoring ANY of the parties, including the Tea Party. Joe S., my 'Progressive' friend (Democrat, and excellent man)says there is quite a 'buzz' about this video!!(which has about 3 million hits, just on the one I looked at). I myself found it quite disturbing, but it made complete sense!!!! This is a note from below the video: "Fall Of The Republic documents how an offshore corporate cartel is bankrupting the US economy by design."
It blasts both sides!
Watch it all the way through....it goes through different subjects


The other two pouting bed-wetters are only going to post nasty posts to discredit anyone who doesn't have to try as hard as they do, to eat with a spoon, so they can, and will be ignored.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 03:51 PM

In twenty-five words or fewer, what does your post say?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 03:58 PM

Jaysus, Bruce! Be careful what you ask for, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 04:20 PM

G from the Asylum, perhaps the reason there is no rebuttal is that, other than babbling incoherently, you haven't say anything to rebut.

You keep claiming that you know what all the plagues of the world are and that you know how to fix them, and that Bobert, John P., and I are too stupid to figure it out for ourselves.

So you've been challenged to TELL us poor ignorant sods. You've been given your chance to show us how brilliant you are.

And YOU come up with zip, zilch, nada, NOTHING!!

Quit bothering the adults and go soak your head!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 04:27 PM

Open mouth--Insert foot!
Some babbling fools just don't comprehend!..or read a whole post before blathering on!

You just got busted, again!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 04:38 PM

Mt Rushmore got busted, not me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 04:41 PM

"Some babbling fools just don't comprehend!"

Truest thing you've said yet, GoofuS.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 04:55 PM

Obama may he hamstrung by the Tea Party in that he has a corporate bent which may preclude him standing up to Wall Street or the Tea Party. Right now, he is beholden to the MIC which is really telling him what to do.

Tripoli may be another quagmire, no government established, billions going into that war, but one thing is for certain. If Obama is for it, the Tea Party will be against it.

The theological mindset of the Tea Party sees Obama as the "anti-Christ" and the wave of religious wing-nuts are giving his political demise biblical support, mostly inferential and interpretive. Their view of theology supports the idea that rich people deserve what they have because their god wills it, a Pat Robertson bromide, and the motivation for Bachmann and Perry.

The only way Obama can be re-elected is if he has the temerity to take all of this on but the question remains, why is he so intent on his view of "compromise"? Does he fear the violent power of the religious wing-nuts? Is he sympathetic to Wall Street and their support for him at the next election? Is he sensitive to the fact that racism is alive and well in the US?

Why did he agree to the gang of 12 which will reach an impasse and trigger cuts in social programs?

You saw the picture of Rick Perry with a pistol in hand at the NASCAR races. Does this
portend things to come?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 06:21 PM

Strings, watch the video on the link. it tells you who and what Obama is, and the relationship there is with the Bush administration. But you have to get past the first part, and into the meat of it!

"Ritual Defamation is used to hurt, to intimidate, to destroy, and to persecute, and to avoid the dialogue, debate and discussion upon which a free society depends. On those grounds it must be opposed no matter who tries to justify its use."

This is worth an intelligent conversation, or debate...even if you don't agree with the video...which, by the time you get to the end, is fascinating!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:42 PM

As far as I am concerned if there was a 2 hour video that was fact based explaining all the wars since 1963 then someone with academic credentials would have written a book on it and it would be common knowledge... I am not going to waste 2 hours of my life watching disconnected rants and unproven hypothesis's by conspiracy theorists just to have the pleasure (?) of poking holes in it...

If, however, GfinS, since you have gone out of your way to proclaim that Don and I rae so ignorant in answering of your question, then please, by all means, condense the hypothesis into a few paragraphs...

That shouldn't be all that hard... I mean, if a hypothesis takes two hours to explain then it's bogus...

B~

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 08:52 PM

Don't waste your time on that link, folks. It's a YouTube rendition of "The Fall of the Republic." It's a production of Alex Jones, a talk show host in Dallas, Texas.

I saw it some time ago, at the insistence of one of my more angry and unstable acquaintances who loaned me her copy of the DVD.

Here's the scoop on Alex Jones:

(Sorry. I tried to make it into a link, but for some reason the bloody thing wouldn't work!)

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/alex-jones.

Alex Jones's magnum opus is primarily a vicious propaganda slam against Obama (surprise surorise!), and then it resurrects the wheezy old conspiracy theory, long favored by the dim-witted and paranoid, about "The Global Corporate Takeover by the International Bankers." It's just been up-dated a bit.

My Dad used to get that kind of crappolla in the mail (unsolicited—people just used to send it to him) when I was a kid; but back then, it was how the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers were colluding to take over control of the world by controlling all the money.

This thing also takes a swipe at well-established science, claiming that all talk of climate change being influenced by man is part of The Plot (although how that works is pretty unclear, since most environmental laws based on reducing greenhouse gasses require that many corporations take a financial hit and clean up their acts). It also tries to explain climate variations by giving a basic (sub-basic!) lesson in astronomy, such as the the earth's axial tilt which is responsible for our regular seasonal variations, all long known information, and other totally predictable and well understood phenomena such as the sun's eleven-year-sunspot cycle, which, since it's been going on for millions of years, has nothing to do with any long term climate changes. Nice graphics, though—but irrelevant to the point.

(Astronomy is one of my areas of expertise, so don't try to snow me in that area!!)

The video is interesting, not for the information it contains and the conclusions it reaches.   Most of it is totally spurious. But it gives you an opportunity to observe rampant paranoia at work at its most virulent.

It is true that the corporations, and the wealthy and powerful, want to grab as much power and glean as much wealth, whether earned or not, as they possibly can. 'Twas ever thus! But what, pray tell, is so amazingly new and revelatory about that bit of informantion? All I can say to anyone to whom this is new and startling news is, "Welcome to Planet Earth."

Don Firth

P. S. If that's what GfS is buying into, then I've got him/her completely pegged.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999 Sorry again!
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 09:15 PM

'"The Global Corporate Takeover by the International Bankers."'

The words, "Fait accompli" come to mind, Don.

NO conspiracy; just the way(s) money and greed work.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 09:29 PM

No, no...

I heard this from my dad growin' up in the 50's...

I made reference to this with my "5 guys run the entire world"... That's the cleaned up version... In the 50's it was "Five Jewish bankers run the world"... I heard it from my dad and heard it elsewhere as it was the "conspiracy theory de' jour"...

Thanks, Don, for plowing into it...

Yes, brucie, the corporations are a major problem but blaming them for all the wars since T-Rex is a stretch...

Lol...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 09:32 PM

True indeed, 999. Just the same old stuff.

But I don't buy the idea that we're helpless. As I've said so often that I should probably have it made into a rubber stamp:

"You can't fight City Hall" is an adage put forth by—City Hall.

Some folks are willing to just accept that bit of propaganda and surrender.

Not me. That strikes me as the coward's way. Or simple laziness.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 10:01 PM

Boss Hogg puts on his pants one leg at a time, and he has the disadvantage of having to zip his pants and buckle his belt over that wobbly, overfed paunch.

I heard someone once say that some folks have this vision of Satan as big and muscular, carrying a pitchfork, and with a spear for a tail. Nothing you would want to mess with. But it you refuse to let His Sulfurous Evilness impress you, don't buy the idea that he's that all-powerful, decide not to go along with his plan, then track him relentlessly to his lair and shine a bright light on him, you'll find that he's nothing but a mangy, flea-bitten little rat cowering in the corner.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 10:34 PM

Don (and Bobert), the reason I like getting into it with you guys is you never make me feel like an idiot when I'm wrong.

True, in this case I'm not wrong, but. . . .

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 11:32 PM

I can understand why some wannabe cronies wouldn't want people to see it....but it is an interesting watch.
Actually. I'm not 'into' all that stuff, but i thought, being as my friend turned me onto it, and it is pertinent, that others might want to see it...IF it's OK with those who would forbid you!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 11:52 PM

Klingons.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 12:04 AM

Give it a good twist, GfS. Nobody is "forbidding" anybody to do anything. There's no way I could, even if I wanted to.

Hey! Reality is over THAT way!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 02:53 AM

When it comes to politics..or 'religion' I don't take ANYONE'S Word for anything......that's why on most all the recent links, there is stuff that YOU get to listen and watch, what is being alleged, right from the horse's mouth(even the long one)....I think people can judge for themselves!!!!
Anyway,
Ciao

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 08:34 AM

mangy, flea-bitten little rat

On behalf of rats worldwide I take exception to that characterization.

And give me a rat rather than a Tea Potty loonie any day of the week.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 08:50 AM

Here's the deal... These films are made with one intention and that is to misinform thru a series of manipulations, bogus statistics and and an intention to brainwash you...

Ya' know, it might be ***interesting*** to eat rat poison but knowin' it will make you sick or kill you is why people don't eat the stuff... Same with information or misinformation... If an Obama-hater offers to share a film with you and says it's interesting then you can bet that what you're about to stick in your head is rat poison for your thinkerator...

There are tons of these films out there that all have one thing in common: they were made to misinform you...

Now TO WIT: GfinS has been playing this little "I've got a secret" with a few of us telling us that we don't know jack from jack about jack because we haven't eaten enough rat poison and she has??? Hope it was tasty, GfinS... One thing is fir sure it might explain part of why you have such a deep hatred of a rather centrist president...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 09:17 AM

"...right from the horse's mouth..."

Sorry, when it comes to the science in that video, it is coming straight from the horse's other end. Pure thoroughly debunked and politically-motivated drivel.

The horse's mouth for climate science is here:

www.skepticalscience.com

Note that this site links directly to the actual published, peer-reviewed data and papers. If you care to debate the issues do not stop at the opinions/interpretations - go look at the data.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 01:50 PM

GfS claims that s/he takes no position, neither left nor right, but is above it all and see's the whole picture, while we poor dupes haven't the brains to believe anything but the propaganda fed to us by The Powers the Be.

If this be true, then why is it that s/he is always taking pot-shots at "liberal loonies" (like us, of course, even without having taken a poll to see who really believes what), while, at the same time shoving links to Right-Wing web sites and propaganda videos at us?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 02:55 PM

Bobert: "Here's the deal... These films are made with one intention and that is to misinform thru a series of manipulations, bogus statistics and and an intention to brainwash you..."

The 'films?...or the 'news'?

Don: "GfS claims that s/he takes no position, neither left nor right, but is above it all and see's the whole picture, while we poor dupes haven't the brains to believe anything but the propaganda fed to us by The Powers the Be.
If this be true, then why is it that s/he is always taking pot-shots at "liberal loonies..."

The video I posted takes shots at BOTH sides, and how the globalist BANKERS are the ones corrupting both the right and left, to get their agendas through...and in the process, destroying REAL liberalism, and co-opting REAL conservatism. If you would have paid attention to the film, Bernancke is being questioned by a DEMOCRAT Congressman, when the Congressman asked him if he knew where a trillion dollars went, and Bernancke answers, that 'I don't know'...and the Democrat Congressman presses him about that. Good for the Congressman!!! Then they have a Republican Congressman grilling him....and he just stonewalls him too. Being as that is caught on film, and the film is about preserving our system of government, and NOT letting it being overtaken by corporate fat cats, to which we will have NO SAY, I'm surprised that you're objecting!!!
The problem is, is that either side of the two parties, who have polarized themselves, tend to get 'protective' of their 'side' ONLY, and throw out the baby with the bathwater!!!.....and that's what has happened to some of you, and you are blowing it for both your party, and our country, and are the ones being manipulated. even the film brings that out...if anyone even watched it all the way through.
If you can't see that, by what is happening to our country, by now, then it is YOU who are supporters of the very people you SAY you are against!!
Fair enough?
They are creating the financial crisis in the country, and globally, and getting their 'victims', to unwittingly point the fingers at each other, as a distraction from where it is coming from!!!! This SHOULD be obvious by now, even if you hadn't seen the videos. THEN they create and back a re-reactionary, group, such as the Tea Party, and the focus falls onto the Tea Party, and STILL not on them.
We all agree that the globalist bankers ARE the problem, with their agenda....what some of you are blinded to, are their tactics!...You think it's ALL political!....and in that, you are sincere..but also sincerely wrong! This WHOLE mess is being driven by them, and THROUGH certain factions of ALL the political parties. To single out this guy, or that guy, on BOTH sides of the aisle, does NOT mean either side, as a whole are fucked up....and that's where fanatics who favor either side, are misdirecting the truth from being uncovered!!!

Now, I guess, here come some stupid rebuttals and slurs(again), but what I just said IS true, and will remain as true, whether you spin it, or not!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:04 PM

You must be very young, GfS, because you're just catching up to the twentieth century. We're already in the twenty-first. This is the same old stuff that I heard when I was a kid. And I'm no spring chicken.

The question is

And need I remind you (of course, I do!) the YOU are the one with the stupid slurs?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:14 PM

Sorry. My mouse got too eager.

The question, GfS, is, with all of your brilliance, DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION? AND IF SO, WHAT IS IT?

If so, let's hear it.

Anybody can whine and complain about the state of the world and make snotty remarks about other peoples' view of things, but very few people, it seems, are motivated to do anything to attempted to solve the situation. All they want to do is bitch.

So again: let's hear it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:47 PM

Ain't going to compute, Don... GfinS is a one trick pony with no real ability to take in new information but will sit down to any feast of bullshit, lies and propaganda that the other Obama haters want to serve up... Her "both sides" ballgame is no more than a smokescreen to make her feel like her Obama hating is perfectly okay... It isn't...

People are starting to see that this hatred is in a new class of it's own and also see just what factors make it different...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 06:17 PM

From what I can tell, Alex Jones is trading as a conspiracy theorist.

As to the banking industry,and Nafta, Cafta, IMF and the World Bank, the deals made with them, has outsourced our jobs and made CEOs wealthy. I don't buy the monolithic takeover theory but I think the Banksters are culpable, but remember it started with Clinton when he repealed Glass Steagal and then they passed the The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (CFMA). This was the start of the bubbles and exporting of jobs. Now gas prices are controlled by speculators on Wall Street in case you wonder why you are paying so much at the pump.

Obama is looking to Wall Street to finance his next election which shows you just how much the system is broken. Thanks to the Roberts Court, money buys elections today. In comes the Koch Brothers with their "Americans for Prosperity" which finances the Tea Party.

The Tea Party is now supporting the governor of Texas who killed an innocent man, carries a laser sighted pistol with him at all times and brandished it at a recent NASCAR meeting.
His "Response" had the New Apostolic Reformation ministers on it. Perry and the Tea Party will damage this country.

Lloyd Blankfein (Goldman Sachs) says he is doing "god's will".

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 06:21 PM

Normal, Strings and...

...300???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 06:25 PM

Don: "You must be very young, GfS, because you're just catching up to the twentieth century. We're already in the twenty-first. This is the same old stuff that I heard when I was a kid. And I'm no spring chicken."

I think you are living in the past...of what you THOUGHT the Democratic Party USED to be!...They co-opted the '60s anti war movement, but didn't really believe in what they were all about....it was just rhetoric to get votes.

Same goes for Bobert...except for him, in his quest for being so 'open minded, and 'liberal' he's turned into a VERY close minded, stuck in partisan propaganda from yesteryear.

As far as a solution, the Constitution has been breached and not enforced, when it comes to loopholes and concessions, of which the manipulator puppet masters, have corrupted, our due processes of law. They will tell you that it is 'outdated' and other such nonsense..BUT there are anti-trust laws, that have been enacted(Constitutionally), which I'm sure the Democrats would be in favor of, anti banking abuse laws, election laws, that have been abused, minting laws, tariifs and revenue laws, border enforcement, balance of power laws and parameters, sovereignty laws...ALL which partisan politicking have fucked with, to get that 'one little thing' through..which chip away at the INTENT of the law!! If the Constitution were enforced as of now!..things would change...the only problem is, a lot of the 'chipping away' was done to appeal to a constituency, along partisan lines(as in 'divide and conquer')......but the real motive behind that, was to allow gaping holes, in which treasonous traitors, and greedy pigs, to keep people down, while they manipulated our legal system, banking laws, etc etc.
It has had a negative effect both to the 'left' AND the 'right', neither get what they wanted, and then somewhere in the mid-term of an administration, (which ever party is in power), their constituency starts thinking that their side LOOKS like the other....and can't figure out what the hell is fucked up!....THEN, you get the 'remedy', which pissed both sides off(such as the Tea Party), and the country stands on the brink of collapse, socially and economically, while the perpetrators stand ready to move in, and set up their own totalitarian state neo fascism which fucks EVERYONE over....except, of course themselves!
We are being, or attempting to be, deceived every day that we live!
Just look around you.
An open mind could easily grasp this. A truly liberal mind sees it. A progressive mind sees it...and Conservatives see it...and its pissing us ALL off!!!
So, I'm NOT against you, at all...but you guys are promoting a mindset that is keeping people blinded, and divided, as Americans.
Hell, I'm only a musician, and I see it..ONLY because I didn't get sucked into it!!!..and am still objective.
No slurs, no slams, no errors!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 06:48 PM

The Democratic Party has become a mixed bag, on one hand, the so-called "blue dogs", and the other active people, The Black Caucus, and mavericks who could save this country such as Bernie Sanders (not a Democrat) and Dennis Kucinich (who is).

The problem of course is that because of his wanting to unite the country, Obama has capitulated in an effort to reconcile, part of his religious convictions following in the path of MLK. (His brain on god).

The Republicans in the Congress perceive this as a weakness and will exploit it any way they can.

Obama will have to decide to lead by ignoring the Republicans in the Congress and emboldening his position to move toward a FDR-like stance to cure the Depression.
He'll have to run on this to get re-elected but if he gives in any more to the destructive purposes of the GOP, he will lose to the fanatical Tea Party and be abandoned by his Progressive base.

The issue of National Security is a red-herring. With Osama and Khadaffi gone, we are still at war with billions being wasted and taken from the backs of working people via taxes. And then there is still Assad who is as bad as Khadaffi as well as the other dictators being confronted by the Arab Spring.

Stimulus spending on job creation, protection of victims of foreclosure, shoring up defense of S.S. Medicare and Medicaid, stop the rants from the GOP about "spending cuts" and the Norquist/Ryan/Ayn Rand destruction of government, might help Obama have a chance for a second term. If he caves, it's all over for him.

If Perry gets in, we are all in big trouble.

You thought Bush was bad.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 07:53 PM

Yo, GfinS... Have you ever read much of what Jefferson said about our Constitution??? Do you realize why it provided a way to amend it???

is idea that we are chipping away at it is nothing but right wing propaganda... Our laws have weight because they have served us well... When they no longer serve us well then there is that flexibility within' the Constitution to allow us to go forward...

There's nothing inherently wrong with the Constitution... There is, however, a problem when the Supreme Court sees itself as both the legislative and judicial branch... That's what we have going on now with a highly partisan Supreme Court rigging elections... It's been 11 years now since they thought that they were the electorate and robbed the American people of a fair election... With Citizens United they have set aside 100 years of precedence to rig elections...

And they are getting ready to possibly overturn the Affordable Care Act based 100% on politics and 0% on law... Heck, Clarence Thomas's wife is a paid lobbyist agains this legislation and Justice Thomas has taken money from folks who want it repealed...

This is something that Jefferson never saw coming... It's lawlessness and corruption and guess what, GfinS... It's all part of a concerted effort to cheat to win...

Maybe that's the country you want because you hate Obama but the ends do not justify the means... You shouldn't have to game the Constitution to win elections but ya'll don't give a shit about fairness... You just hate Obama and if cheating is what it take, screw the intent of the Constitution... That's what it looks like from over here...

Cheaters!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:18 PM

Being knowledgeable and having a sense of history does not mean that one is living in the past, GfS. I am aware of what the Democratic Party used to be (and falls way short now) and I am also aware of what the Republican Party used to be. And with a knowledge of history, I know about what the Republican Party was like when Theodore Roosevelt was president and why, when he decided to run for yet another term, he broke his affiliation with the GOP and started the Progressive ("Bull Moose") Party. And even though Dwight Eisenhower was one of the better Republican presidents, the Repubs have been sliding further and further to the Right ever since.

The Democrats had their act together with another Roosevelt, Franklin D., and with "Give 'em Hell" Harry Truman, but no Democrat from those days would recognize the party anymore.

Try to comprehend this, GfS. I am not a member of any political party. I am politically active. But I am neither Democrat, nor (God knows!) Republican. I do not fit into any of your predigested political categories, so I don't fit into any of your convenient pigeon holes.

Unfortunately, the way our system is set up, third parties tend to be spoilers and draw votes away from the candidates that are preferable—not necessarily good, but the better of two lousy candidates. This is why I favor preferential or instant run-off voting, but I won't hold my breath 'til it happens.

". . . but you guys are promoting a mindset that is keeping people blinded, and divided, as Americans."

I don't know what thread you've been reading, GfS, but Bobert and I are not "promoting" any "mindset." That's strictly an erroneous assumption on your part.

Unfortunately you didn't answer my challenge to put forth your solution to the problem. All you have done above is restate the problem.

Read what Stringsinger and Bobert have posted just above.

And LEARN.

Don Firth

P. S.   "Treasonous traitors," by the way, is redundant.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:49 PM

"Obama will have to decide to lead by ignoring the Republicans in the Congress and emboldening his position to move toward a FDR-like stance to cure the Depression."

Amen, Strings!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:30 AM

Actually Don and Bobert, you should think twice about your condescending tones..BECAUSE:

Don: (quoting me, then commenting on my quote) GfS:". . . but you guys are promoting a mindset that is keeping people blinded, and divided, as Americans."

Don's reply: "I don't know what thread you've been reading, GfS, but Bobert and I are not "promoting" any "mindset." That's strictly an erroneous assumption on your part."

********************************************************
Note the date!!!

This call was right before it fell 10%. First a couple of bad days, down 4%..then came up, and plunged...but if you note the date, I called it right....BEFORE IT HAPPENED!!

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 02:55 PM

"I expect the market to fall, at least around 10% more, and soon, if not sooner!
Only 24% of Americans as of today, approve of our Congress, and Senate. a majority of Americans, now (finally) disapprove of Obama!"


*******************************************

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 04:36 AM

"Well Richard, I saw your quote and dug it.... problem is, a lot of politically biased people see stuff through their rose colored 'political glasses', instead of an objectivity, for truth, or history. Those same people interject 'purposed policies' over science or truth, and argue a blue streak, that the lie is really truth, as long as it is consistent with furthering any nonsensical political folly!....and good Lord, Mudcat has quite a few of those! The best thing that one can do, is just keep telling the truth..eventually time will bear one out!....and yet still they'll argue silliness, until they crash and burn. All you can hope for is that one or two reader's lights go on, and their music might get more honest, while they take a closer look at 'paying attention to detail'......"

************************************************************
THIS ONE WAS BEFORE PERRY EVEN ANNOUNCED HIS CANDIDACY !!!

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 05:37 AM


"So when you hear the debate about 'raising the debt ceiling' that issue is merely widening our ability to afford more borrowing, for..you guessed it again, feeding these bastards! I hold suspect ANY politician, and news media outlet, who are under the control, of the IMF(Tim Geitner, and therefore, Obama), along with international banking organizations, and their ilk. Watch for the rise of Rick Perry for President. He's the one they are backing, this time around. Watch his 'meteoric' rise in news coverage, for name recognition. When you see it, note the tactics. Note the groundswell...."

************************************************

Me??? Living in the past???? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...just Sane.
Two EXACT calls BEFORE it happened......yeah, I guess MY thinking is fucked up, huh?

Pardon me if I continue NOT adopting YOUR mindset!!!
Actually, Don, YOU ARE the one who could "learn something"

GfS

P.S. Lucky guesses???.....I wonder how GfS does it!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:33 AM

[sigh....]

Haven't we talked before about not personalizing the debate?

love,

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:50 AM

Yes, Joe...I was merely answering his post.....and if you noted the other posts of mine, I repeatedly made calls to NOT escalate the nasty rhetoric. The CAPITALS I use are not in anger, but only for emphasis...
but thanks for the 'heads up'!

OK Guys let's be 'nice'.....AND interesting, as well!

Ragards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:09 AM

"I repeatedly made calls to NOT escalate the nasty rhetoric"


You have been a paragon of moderation. So, that said, may I add that one must on occasion split hairs, personalities and decisions, and as we see from that sentence, infinitives. Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 11:55 AM

Huh?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:04 PM

The infinitive is the starting point for verbs. Verbs start their lives thus:

to be
to think
to do
to run
to escalate

One splits an infinitive by putting a word between the to and the verb. So, to quickly run should be written as to run quickly. Style books of English are universal on that. Western civilization will not fall because of it, but pedants everywhere will protest. I was simply drawing that to your attention.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:10 PM

Guest,999: "I was simply drawing that to your attention."

Well, bless your heart!...........................and all your other vital organs!

Wink, and Regards!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:13 PM

However, I think ANY rephrasing of "to boldly go" would render the most well-known split infinitive trite in terms of public perception. Note that "to go boldly" or "boldly to go" just don't have the same ring as to boldly go where no man has gone before.

It's a small point but one I thought you'd enjoy. I know I have.

Last, it's the placement of the adverb that so confuses the issue. Without adverbs the problem would not exist. It requires but a few moments of though to seriously reconsider the error as I just did not.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:22 PM

Last, it's the placement of the adverb that so confuses the issue. Without adve rbs the problem would not exist. It requires but a few moments of though to seriously reconsider the error as I just did not."

Enjoy!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:34 PM

Dang. That's Clapton off the our right. Listening to it now. Many thanks, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:46 PM

Well, GUEST,999 and GUEST,Guest from Sanity have proven that civility on Mudcat is actually possible.

Perhaps the Mudcat regulars, aka the Dirty Dozen, could take a break from their reletless nastiness and try acting like people.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:50 PM

Well, just as the one winged duck flies in circles seems that the Tea Party thread has found its own circle... Oh well, I reckon a little comic relief was/is in order...

BTW, thanks for the Billy Preston... Hadn't thought of him in years...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:51 PM

HE STARTED IT!!!!!

wink!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:53 PM

"It all started when he hit me back!"

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:03 PM

pdq: "It all started when he hit me back!"

Hey, if I want any shit from you, I'll lift the top of your head off, and scoop it out!

Wink!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:52 PM

OK, GfS but now that you've had your fun, perhaps we could actually discuss the Tea Party?

Richard Nixon called them the Silent Majority.

Jerry Falwell called them the Moral Majority.

They are a substantial part of our country, but may no longer be a majority.

They are the people who go to work (if they still have jobs), don't usually complain, pay their taxes and try to raise ther kids in the ever-increasing violent atomsphere in public schools.

What casused the outburst now is the insane Fedaral spending and ObamaCare, things the public overwhelming dissaproves of.

The current administration is doing things thea the public does not want done and yet they don't listen to us. It's taxation withpout representation hence the Tea Party moniker.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:43 PM

I think the solution to this country's problems is that, for president and vice-president, we should elect Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann in whichever order anyone likes, and while the country turns into a fundamentalist "Christian" corporatocracy (see what Benito Mussolini said about the relationship between the corporations and the governnent in a fascist state), and before the U. S. and A. explodes into a real bloody revolution, my wife and I will emigrate to one of the Scandinavian countries where we can live safely and comfortably and watch the U. S. go down the drain of history from a safe distance.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:07 PM

Well, Don, I think Perry is as much of a danger to America, as Bush...not because of the guy himself, but his backers. Yes, if America doesn't get it's shit together, it will go down the tubes of history. I think Obama, was merely a bump in the road, but he's acting more like a IMF rep, than a lot of them, who are pretending they are not! He's more like an actor,(and I've known a few!...maybe even post a list sometime). We have, and are continuing to lose our freedoms, and liberties, under all these, the latest batch. Obama may have one last trick to save the economy, and that would be to open up drilling, before the elections, which I think he will do, probably when oil hits about $200 a barrel. In doing this, he will renege on Henry Kissinger's agreement with the Saudis, which was already planned on, anyway. At that time, the globalist bankers will be fully in control, and we will have NO voice at all! This plan has been in the works for a long time, and what we've been seeing, is the slippery slope. The party base, of both sides, meanwhile are squabbling amongst themselves, and pointing fingers at each other, while the REAL agenda marches on, AGAINST ALL of our wills!!
I hope I don't have to dig this post up, in a year and a half to show you, that you've all been told before.(By that time, I might be 'offed' anyway)....By the way, you might consider Argentina, or Paraguay!

pdq, for what it's worth, the T-E-A of Tea party, stands for Taxed Enough Already...................'infinitives!' Bah! Humbug!

Respectfully,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:51 PM

Bottom line, we have shifted the tax burdens down to the working class and poor... The rich love to spew out stats where they pay the ____% (pick a number, it changes every time I hear one spew) of the "income taxes"... What they leave out is how much of the wealth they have corralled for themselves which is much greater than the taxes they pay...

But the elephant in the room is regressive taxes which they avoid talking about like radiation... These taxes have have doubled and even tripled in some states and the working class and poor are carrying the load here and it one heavy load... I'm talking sales taxes, taxes on power bills, internet, user fees, permits, etc.... There are hundreds of these regressive taxes raking in trillion$$$ every year and being paid disproportionately by the working class and the poor...

As for the tax rates for the rich??? They are a joke... Warren Buffet was entirely correct in pointing out that his actual tax rate is half what his secretary's is... I mean, lets get real... Even to so called "progressive income tax" ain't progressive at all... It's regressive...

Oh, and Don is correct about the fascists... One of the things that Hitler did early on was buddy up with the "industrialists" (that's what the corporatists were called back then...)

I'm with Don... I can't take too much more erosion of the country... It is on the verge of being a failed state where Ayn Rand and John Galt just run around a "Mad Max After the Thunderdome" nation getting over on others and surviving while starving out who ever gets in their way...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:04 PM

Bobert: "Oh, and Don is correct about the fascists... One of the things that Hitler did early on was buddy up with the "industrialists" (that's what the corporatists were called back then...)"


I should assume you mean 'bailouts' and 'helping' and merging with the auto industry, with money, and AIG, and Wall Street, and the like?.....YES! I agree with you and Don, about that!

Who did that? We may have found a thread of agreement!
BTW, isn't Obama a 'Democrat' and Bush a 'Republican'?...doing the SAME thing??....but giving out 'explanations' just suited for their own particular party base?
None of it washes!
Everybody is "Too big to fail"....except for US!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:06 PM

Forgot to sign in, delete the other one, if you want to.


Bobert: "Oh, and Don is correct about the fascists... One of the things that Hitler did early on was buddy up with the "industrialists" (that's what the corporatists were called back then...)"


I should assume you mean 'bailouts' and 'helping' and merging with the auto industry, with money, and AIG, and Wall Street, and the like?.....YES! I agree with you and Don, about that!

Who did that? We may have found a thread of agreement!
BTW, isn't Obama a 'Democrat' and Bush a 'Republican'?...doing the SAME thing??....but giving out 'explanations' just suited for their own particular party base?
None of it washes!
Everybody is "Too big to fail"....except for US!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 07:16 PM

Yes, bailouts but that's only a side show... It's not the main stage...

On the main stage is what Don and I have both talked about and that is the corruption between the Republican Party, especially the Tea Party, and the "industrialists"... I will use the term "industrialists" because it is the term that historians use in describing mid 30s Germany and the rise of Hitler...

This is exactly what we have going on now... The industrialists own the Tea Party lock, stock and barrel... The industrialists have hated unions and the New Deal (Social Security included) going back 70 years and they have passed their hatred of unions and the New Deal down to their kids and grand kids who are the new industrialists...

The industrialists love to exploit... They love to have the freedom to pollute our water and poison our air... That's why their gal, Michelle Backmann, says she would close down the EPA... They want a Ayn Rand, John Galt, Mad Max After the Thunderdome nation because they will be richer and everyone else won't...

They have spend hundreds of millions organizing the Tea Party and are prepared to spend billions, if need be, to drown out democracy... They own almost all of the Big Media so no one is calling them on their ballgames... These people are out to destroy the America we all know... They want to destroy you, too, GfinS, but you are already sufficiently brain washed and fall squarely in the *clueless* category...

But trying to get you to learn anything new is impossible... They have filled your head with all the talking points and rationalizations... Normal... This is what Mussolini and Hitler did but you just go, "Oh, that's just liberal scare stuff"... No, it way beyond liberal scare stuff.... It's fact... History is repeating itself almost down the line here...

I know you don't like to Google stuff but Google "Martin Niemoller"... It won't take long... This is what Don and I have tried to get you to at least think about but, truthfully, I think you are beyond "think"... I don't believe that you are capable of "think"...

But, hey, I'll keep trying to bust thru that very good job the industrialists have done on your head, anyway...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 07:36 PM

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.
                                                                                                                        —Benito Mussolini

Mussolini also commented on the fasces (a bundle of rods tied around a battle-axe)—[CHOP!!]—an appropriate symbol for fascism, from which, of course, the word "fascism" is derived, because the rods represented corporations and the axe represented the power of government, each supporting the other.

Think about it!

I have a number of friends whom I met in the 1950s and 60s, such as Elmar Lanczos, a Hungarian Jew, who's family (including his father, Cornelius Lanczos, the eminent theoretical physicist, a friend and occasion co-worker with Albert Einstein) swiftly emigrated from Hungary to the United States when, in the late 1930s, they got the drift of what was happening in Germany, and wisely decided it would be a good time to travel "for their health." Well they did, because none of their friends or other family members survived beyond the early 1940s.

####

I cannot ascribe devious motives to Barack Obama. I think his heart is in the right place. But—he seems to be painfully naïve, and doesn't seem to really grasp the nature of his Republican adversaries. He strives for consensus and compromise with those who have dug in their heels and refuse to budge a fraction of an inch. I really wish he would familiarize himself with Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman. Those men, too, had their hearts in the right place and they cared for the country and its people, but they knew what was going on and neither of them took any crap off of anyone!

Don Firth

P. S.   In case FDR's quote is too small for you to read, this is what it says:

"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than the state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism itself—ownership of a government by an individual, by a group.

Obviously the country has forgotten the factors and events that led to the Great Depression.

And no, GfS, I am not living in the past. But if this country doesn't get its socks pulled up, we'll ALL be living in the past!

(No winks or grins, because the situation ain't funny!).

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 07:47 PM

I'm looking and praying for Obama to take them on this time, Don... The Tea Party overplayed their hand this summer and left the centrists and moderates with severe case of whip-lash... I think Obama will come out swinging...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:40 PM

Boy, I sure hope so, Bobert. I'd really like to be able to cheer for the guy!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:01 PM

"I think Obama will come out swinging..."

He'd better. If not, your worst nightmare will happen. Bush, stupid as he was, was nothing in stupid-terms compared to Palin, Bachmann or WHF in Texas. The old saw about "at least he made the trains run on time" just won't cut it. The USA has become a nation of haves and have nots. When sufficient numbers of have nots get their sh#t together, the haves will need more than money or military. Remember, when ya got nothin' ya got nothin' to lose.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:43 PM

Exactly, brucie... That's why Obama is going to come out swinging... I feel it in my bones...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 12:45 AM

Bobert: "On the main stage is what Don and I have both talked about and that is the corruption between the Republican Party, especially the Tea Party, and the "industrialists"... I will use the term "industrialists" because it is the term that historians use in describing mid 30s Germany and the rise of Hitler..."

RIGHT!!!....

    .........BUT You forgot the corruption between the same people, and the Democrats, as well.
Do you actually think the people you're talking about OVERLOOKED the Democrats???? Or just thought, they were too pristine to want to soil??? Come on, Bobert, get serious!..You're on the right track, but it has extended throughout the WHOLE body politic!!
Talking about Obama being naive???..as Don alludes. Holy Smokes!!!

Shaking my head in disgusted amazement.....(slightly cracking up).

GfS

P.S. But I'm still rootin' for ya'!..(both!)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:17 AM

Careful. . . .

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:31 AM

See, GfinS, this is where you"have a bad disconnection"...

"Liberals" and "Democrats" are not synonymous... Sure, "Liberals" if they vote at all don't vote for Republicans because the Repubs are 100% corporate puppets... The Dems??? Maybe 50% or even less...

Here's why we don't vote for Republicans:

1. Reaganomics (trickle down, voodoo, supply side) economics wasn't/isn't a Democratic idea... It was a Republican idea and has cost the working class trillions in lost wages over the last 30 years... Might of fact, after indexing, the working class hasn't seen any real increase in their wages since 1982... That's not on Dems...

2. Dirty tricks: Going back to Lee Atwater the Repubs have been more about manipulation of public opinion that governing... When they do get in power they are like a dog on a bone and use their power to try to undo the New Deal anywhere they can chip away at... That's not on Dems...

3. Bush v.Gore: First,the Repubs paid goons to go to Florida and try to terrorize the precint workers who were doing the recount and when it looked as if Gore was just hours away from over taking Bush is the recount, the Republican Supreme Court stepped in and said that if the recount were to be allowed to continue that their boy, Bush, would be "harmed" (legal term for "he would have lost"... That's not on the Dems...

4. The Bush tax cuts: This was the most insane idea to ever come down the pike but fit right in with voodoo economics in rather than use surpluses to cut the deficit and invest in our crumbling infrastructure they gave trillions away to the rich and a few crumbs to everyone else... That's not on the Dems...

5. The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars: These wars were/are both ridiculously ill thought out and to date has cost the US over 6000 American lives, over 50,000 disabled and Trillion$$$ of borrowed money that Repubs now don't want to pay back... That's not on the Dems...

6. "Citizens United", state laws either banning unions or crippling unions, laws that make voting harder for the working class, the poor and minorities: All aimed at one thing and that is to tilt elections... That's not on the Dems...

7. The corporate brown shirt brigade (Tea Party) organized with hundred$$$ of million$$$ of dollars that make all the $$$ that the right's favorite whipping boys (Soros, Acorn, MoveOn) look like chump change... And since Repubs are the Party of Boss Hog there is no amount of money they can't get when they need it... And guess what??? There is no way of knowing just how much $$$ Boss Hog is giving the Repubs because "Citizens United" Supremes say it none of out business who buys our elections (foreign or domestic)... That's not on the Dems...

8. The BIG LIE: The Repubs have lived on the BIG LIE going way back... They have a massive PR budget and pump out lies by the hundreds... Every major blog in the America that deals with politics has full time paid BIG LIE bloggers pumping them out 24/7... They plant all kinds of misinformation and so it's no wonder when people ***recite*** "both parties do this or that"... No, both parties don't do this or that but as long as enough people say it then it gives the Repubs cover to do what ever evil they want... That's not on the Dems...

I mean, these are just some of the more obvious differences... Of course the GfinSs of the world are too brainwashed to understand reality but this is reality...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 10:07 AM

pdq lobbed this little stink bomb into the discussion a while back:

Richard Nixon called them the Silent Majority.
Jerry Falwell called them the Moral Majority.
They are a substantial part of our country, but may no longer be a majority.
They are the people who go to work (if they still have jobs), don't usually complain, pay their taxes and try to raise ther kids in the ever-increasing violent atomsphere in public schools.

Everyone I know does these things, and none of them were ever part of the so-called Moral Majority. I, myself, am leaving for work in a few minutes so I can pay my taxes and I think the Moral Majority was yet another attempt by theocrats to abolish the Constitution of the United States.

You seem to be saying that only right-wing Christians go to work and raise kids or are concerned about those things. You seem to be saying that only right-wing Christians are normal people. That sort of line might work for the ignorant during elections, but it doesn't fly amongst those of us with actual reasoning abilities.

Can you explain what point you were trying to make?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 10:52 AM

"Richard Nixon called them the Silent Majority.

Jerry Falwell called them the Moral Majority.

They are a substantial part of our country, but may no longer be a majority.

They are the people who go to work (if they still have jobs), don't usually complain, pay their taxes and try to raise ther kids in the ever-increasing violent atomsphere in public schools."

I don't see it as a stink bomb by PDQ, JohnB. It's a view that is based in reality. There never has been a 'silent majority'. Therein is the BIG lie as promulgated by government--who happened to be Republicans. If Republicans ever said what they REALLY want to do in the USA, they would be tried for sedition or treason--or both.

For example, I do not understand why the EPA--a dirty organization which seems to have been given the right to do as they damned well please is not named as a terrorist organization, because they rank right up there with PETA and Al Qaeda. What is of necessary importance is for people to take a deep breath and have a good look at the 'state of the union'. Voters do not matter anymore in the USA. It is no longer the home of the free, and as for land of the brave, well, exactly where ARE the brave? It was a dream based on ideals, and now both dream and ideals are gone.

The country is close to bankruptcy, and money that needs to be in circulation is being used to steal people's homes, steal their ability to support their families, steal their lives. I am of the opinion that both parties have had a hand in it. I used to respect the USA for its ability to respond to its citizens. It just ain't doing that anymore. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Americans are now living in the world envisioned and warned about by Eisenhower and Orwell. I doubt TV will say that, and I expect the day is coming when writing such on the internet will result in incarceration or death. It is indeed a brave new world.

imo

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 12:06 PM

USGS has determined that the cause of the recent earthquake, near Washington…..apparently all of our founding fathers rolled over in their grave simultaneously.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 12:14 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 12:55 PM

Good one, GfS! A joke that works for everyone. The left and right BOTH seem to think that the founding fathers are rolling over in their graves. Except me -- I don't care what they thought or believed, only what they wrote in the Constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 12:58 PM

The earthquake that was centered in Mineral VA was yet unnamed.

Obama's EPA director has chosen the official name it will be given: Bush's Fault.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 01:00 PM

John P: apologies for writing JohnB in that post.

The John B was one of my favourite songs when I was a kid.

No offence meant.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:09 PM

One of my favorites, too. An old girlfriend used to sing to me about the Sloop John P.

Bush's Fault! Love it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:22 PM

I posted a response to your post, Bobert, but it either didn't make it, or it was removed...and it wasn't abrasive, at all!

GfS

---

Not deleted, so maybe it didn't "take." See this message for tips. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:29 PM

Among the first dozen songs I learned. As I recall, I first heard it coming out of juke boxes in the very early 1950s, sung by The Weavers. I learned the words from Carl Sandburg's American Songbag. (Or is that Sandbag's Songburg?)

One evening in 1959, while singing at "The Place Next Door" (next door to the Guild 45th Theater and owned by the same man, hence the name of the coffeehouse), this guy requests "The Sloop John B." So I sang it. After I finished the set, he grumped that I hadn't sung it right. "What do you mean?" I asked him. "You didn't sing it like the Kingston Trio!" he beefed.

Hell's bells! I'd been singing the song since before the King Kong Trio even met!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:39 PM

"Sloop John B" is the seventh track on The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds album and was also a single which was released in 1966 on Capitol Records. It was originally a traditional West Indies folk song, "The John B. Sails," taken from a collection by Carl Sandburg (1927). Alan "Lomax made a field recording of the song in Nassau, 1935, under the title "Histe Up the John B. Sail." This recording appears on the album Bahamas 1935: Chanteys And Anthems From Andros And Cat Island.[2] The song was adapted by The Weavers member Lee Hays and they recorded it as "The Wreck of the John B." The Kingston Trio's 1958 recording of the song, also under the title "The Wreck of the John B.," was the direct influence on the Beach Boys' version. Johnny Cash recorded the song in 1959 as "I Want To Go Home."[3]

The Beach Boys version of "Sloop John B." was ranked #271 on Rolling Stone's list of The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time.[4]
The John B. was an old sponger boat - presumably a sloop - whose crew were in the habit of getting notoriously merry whenever they made port. It was wrecked and sunk at Governor's Harbour in Eleuthera, The Bahamas, in about 1900."

That's part of a Wikipedia article about the song. It's had more lives than most cats. Read somewhere that the first line of the refrain was "Hoist up the John B sail" thus making sail a noun and not a verb.

Don, how did you sing that line?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999 ******* note well o ye of little f
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 02:41 PM

Lest this little meander from the gist of the thread seem unruly or deviationistic, we're drinking tea as we type.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 03:25 PM

999, I sing it "Hoist up the John B. sail" (or "sails," also noun), which is consistent with the following line, "See how the mainsail set." Then he wants the captain on board (possibly sending someone to haul the captain's behind out of some bar) so they can weigh anchor and go home.

I envision this as a song in which the singer (or protagonist) feels that this has not exactly been what most people think of as a "Caribbean cruise." Things haven't gone well, the law is breathing down their necks, he has one helluva hangover, and he just wants to get back to home port.

That's my take on it. Others' mileage may vary. . . .

####

Regarding Obama's naïvété:   What I said was he seems to be naïve in that he was apparently assumed that the Republicans were on the same page he was regarding wanting to find solutions through compromise. By then (and certainly by now!), I thought they had made it abundantly clear that they had dug their heels in and had absolutely no intention of budging an inch. Their main goal was to see to it that Obama failed in whatever he was attempting to do, and to hell with the rest of the country.

Obama should have seen that, forgot about any possibility of compromise, and gone directly to the American public—in the same way that FDR did with his regular "Fireside Chats," telling the country what he was trying to do, why it should be done, and what—and who—was preventing it from happening.

No reason for "disgusted amazement." Unless, of course, one is predisposed to be amazingly disgusting, which is a whole other matter.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 03:30 PM

Thanks, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:32 PM

Yo, brucie...

I know people who work for the EPA and you would be amazed at the stuff they accomplish in the face of massive Republican negative PR...

The polluters want it shut down... The people who over-fish want it shut down... Water poisoners want it shut down...

Shut it down and the quality of our food, our air, our water and our lives will go down with it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:57 PM

They would do us all a favour if they started to enforce laws with regard to oil interests. What they are doing now is on Obama's watch.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 05:04 PM

Bobert, I know what you're saying, but I'd like to see the EPA take on Exxon, BP, et.al. And that just ain't happening. What was the result in terms of fines for BP and the gulf spill? Anybody know? Where is the EPA when the BIG players screw up? And why do the results of EPA enforcement so seldom make the news?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:00 PM

The EPA does indeed fine companies, but the fines are usually dropped in value by government officials. IMO, the EPA shills for Big Brother, making them little better imo.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:10 PM

The EPA got really messed up under Bush, brucie... People were appointed to managerial positions that had absolutely no experience or interest or knowledge of environmental laws or realities... Bush screwed it up as much as he could and stuck flat-earth scientists in positions of power... Yet, even under that the dedicated workers did plow ahead and even got the Supreme Court to acknowledge that we weren't enforcing our own Clean Air Act... Of course, Bush ignored their ruling and no one called for his impeachment or anything...

Over the last two years the EPA is slowly ridding itself of some of these Neanderthals but reality is that what Bush did will take 10 years to undo...

Please don't blame the agency itself... It still has a lot of stupid appointees in managerial positions but the peons are still trying very hard to do what you think they should be able to do... It a struggle, however, and now we have all these anti-science Tea Baggers busting budgets...

I mean, it is so bad that we won't even have the satellite capabilities in 3 years that we now have to track hurricanes because Congress has cut the budgets and 7 of our 8 tracking satellites are past their shelf life and could go down any time...

This is what we are talking about when we talk of infrastructure... It's not just bridges and railroad tracks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:34 PM

Good points, Bobert. Sorry to your friends.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 08:50 PM

Well, one of them, a regular at the Getaway, just retired last year... She was so relieved to finally get out... Another guy, who BTW has played bass in some of my various bands, is still there... He's an oceanographer... People just don't realize that our government is trying to regulate fishing so we don't completely fish out our oceans... The Tea Party folks would be perfectly happy if that happened and when fish got to $50 a pound they would complain that the government should have done something about it...

That is the maddening thing about the Tea Party... When the shit hits the fan they blame the government but they don't want the government from doing the things that are needed to keep the shit from hitting the fan...

Just last year when my friend, Mr. Clifford, was dieing he was sent to long term care... Medicare only pays for 90 days of long term care before the patient has to pay until spending just about all his or her savings... Enter Mr. Clifford's daughter, anti-government Tea partier... She was in line to get Mr/ Clifford's saving account upon his death... Boy, was she pissed that Medicare only pay's 90 days because it meant that Mr. Clifford's saving would get eaten up...

That's what I mean... These people hate government until they need government and then they can't get enough government???

Go figure...

This is the Tea Party... Ignorant... Greedy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 01:00 PM

The Tea Party doesn't just want to trash government, it wants to replace it with a theocracy. Until Americans understand this, they will be chasing wonkish windmills, economy, taxation, etc.

Lloyd Blankfein tells us that god wants him to be rich.

The Koch Brothers, as does Carl Rove have an investment in "god's plan".

Look what is motivating Perry, Bachmann, Ron Paul, the Tea Party, and much of the Republican candidates. They are asking you not to look under the curtain.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:38 PM

No, Strings, I kinda see it a little differently... The Tea Party's strategy is to mess up as much stuff as possible so that people will see them as "saviors"... If that means trashing parts of the government, then in the words of Johnny Bonehead, "So be it..."

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 10:19 PM

The Tea Party is split. Yagotcher followers (BAA) and yer leaders. But, the leaders don't know HOW to lead, and the followers don't know how to follow. The beauty of them is that they split the republican vote.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 04:16 AM

The lunatic fringe are singin' to their choir again!
Who gives a hooting rat's ass about the Tea party?!? If you spent half the time doing your homework, about what is really going on, instead of throwing mud on everybody else, you'd soon find out that the Democratic Party, as the Republican Party is just as fucked up as the Tea Party!!..Not only that, you might even find out why!!
So pat yourselves on the back, whip up some enthusiasm, encourage each other more, to hate, slander, slur and curse everybody who isn't agreeing with you....but nobody hears you...unless you fart, and the words you said, form a gas bubble..and squeeze out by your neck!
Obama has to be the biggest disappointment, the Democrats have ever deluded themselves with!
Get over it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:35 AM

"encourage each other more, to hate, slander, slur and curse everybody who isn't agreeing with you"


To whom have you addressed that?

It's getting to the point ya need a program to understand wtf is going on.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 10:03 AM

Thde problem, GfinS, with you is that one day you say you don't give a rat's ass about the stenkin' Tea Party and the next you are exposing their talking points... Get a compass... You are all over the place...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 10:08 AM

B I agree with your last statement about the Tea Party wanting to trash the government.

The question is why? People are in denial about the T.P. theology and it's not just about anti-Obama-Christ. Of course they see themselves as saviors, they are evangelists.

Perry is their preacher-leader, a snake oil salesman who they can count on to wreck our democracy, what's left of it. The "response" has shown pitch-forks, torches and crosses. They are important because there are a lot of closet Tea Party folks out there who want to go back to a mythical time when their theology seemed to control the country,no gays, no protestors, no hippies, no Civil Rights or women's rights just a lillie white lynch mob when things got out of hand.

You might want to look at Frank Schaeffer and Chris Hedges to see what they have to say on this.

The "let-'em-eat-cake" congress supports the T.P. now but they better look out because the tumbrels are coming. Guillotines will be replaced by voting machines unless they are tampered with as in Bush v. Gore.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 11:42 AM

[PDF] Social Movements: A Summary of What Works


Solutions R Us. Google the above site. It is a very valuable read, and it parenthetically sheds light on the causes of the current Tea Party Tizzy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 04:04 PM

Trying to follow the convolutions of GfS's hysterical rants is sort of like watching a poor bug that has been stepped on but is still alive trying to get its many legs in order, then seeing it try to walk off in about three directions at once. Other than saying that the world is going to hell, that the Democratic Party is just as screwed up as the Republican Party and the Tea Party (while occasionally saying that the Tea Party folks are justified in being upset, which seems to imply that s/he agrees with them),and that we, the lunatic fringe, are all too stupid to see it, then does a riff about gastro-intestinal upset. . . .

And, of course, that s/he's convinced that Obama is the Anti-Christ. . . .

What'd s/he say???

Then, of course, s/he wanks winks a couple of times to try to convey the idea that s/he's not really being insulting, s/he's just funnin' us.

Take two bran muffins, GfS, and you'll feel better in a while.

(Of course, I knew someone who did that, and when the muffins did their job, his head shrunk to the size of a raisin!)

####

If one informs oneself, one sees that there is hope and opportunity, which tends to mitigate against hysteria, despair, and a tendency to lash out at others in a rash and random manner. For example, I'm currently reading The Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger, by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett. Many examples of countries in which there is far less economic disparity between people and how they rarely get into international conflicts, and how their populations hover right around the top in statistics on general contentment, happiness, and a sense of personal security and well-being.

Far from being the "city of light on the hill" and "a beacon for the rest of the world" that Reagan talked about, the United States could learn a great deal by observing how many other countries actually manage to do "the greatest good for the greatest number" of their citizens.

Also, I'm watching a series of lectures by University of California's Professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics, George Lakoff. These lectures are on politics as it is occurring right now and how progressives can pull their socks up and take the debate away from the Right-Wing bloviators. Each lecture runs about an hour, but they're well worth the time and attention. Lakoff knows where his towel is!!!

Here's a good intro:   an interview with George Lakoff. 55 minutes. Well worth it.

This will lead you to a whole series of talks and interviews by George Lakoff. Just check the right hand column on the YouTube page.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 06:14 PM

Here's one for uour, Don...

A course entitled "The Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger" V."Atlas Shrugged"...

Be very interesting... Reminds me of:

In my last year of college (1st degree) in 1970 a course was advertised entitled "Contemporary Urban Problems, Seminar" and it was taught/lead/ moderated/refereed by a great guy who was the then Commissioner of the Administration (governor's right hand man), T. Edward Temple... The class limit was 10 students and everyone had to write an essay on why they deserved to be accepted... Oh, and the were looking for 4 lefties, 4 righties and 2 centrists....

I was the "rector"(always hated that word, sounds too much like rectum, lol) of the Radical Student Union so I was a lock for one of the 4 leftie slots...

Also very interesting...

The finest part of it is that we lefties snared one of the righties by the end of the course... He was a stuffy head of the School of Pharmacy at MCV (Medical College of Virginia) which was part of VCU and it was so cool to watch the transformation...

The second finest part was that we each got to lead a class (2 hours, 45 minutes) on some urban problem and when it was my turn I chose "poverty in America" and the university president, Warren Brandt, sat in on it and tried to screw with me but he had come to a real gun fight with nothin' more that a bb gun and I ate his lunch and turned back all his BS with facts and sources... (BTW, he and I didn't get along at that well before that so that was fun...)

But yeah, it does come down to ones perspective on what we as people are supposed to be doing for ourselves and our community... Dr. King V. Ayn Rand... GfinS V. Bob/Don... Rick Perry/Barack Obama... Sharing V. Greed... Lotta choices... Lotta differences...

I guess that is why I don't let the "both sides" mythology see the light of day without challenging it... There is a vast difference between the two camps... Larger than at any point in my life time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 06:35 PM

Don, George Lakoff is one of the leading lights of intelligence in defining the problems of political conflict. His notion of the "bi-conceptual" is illuminating and reaches past the plodding labels that are in use today. His ability to frame is superior to Frank Luntz whose sound bytes are misleading. It's significant to me that both Lakoff and Chomsky are linguists and the use of language to convey ideas coherently is an important part of that discipline.

His analysis of the "nurturing" vs. the "authoritarian" mindsets help define the goals of Progressives.

"Don't Think of an Elephant" and "Moral Politics" are a must read.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:10 PM

Thanks to both of ya' for recommending some good reads...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:16 PM

Right, Strings. What introduced me to George Lakoff was Don't Think of an Elephant. I can't remember who recommended it, but to whoever it was, thanks a million! Moral Politics is next, after I finish The Spirit Level.

One of my favorite books (fairly short, easy read) is First Democracy: The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. Woodruff examines Athenian democracy, it's various flaws, and how and why it often worked better than today's democracy. Then he winds the book of with a final chapter or "Afterword" with a most interesting title: "Are Americans Ready for Democracy?"

Most interesting!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 11:18 AM

The Tea Party is predicated on the idea of total authoritarianism, a biblical worldview that doesn't stop at gun violence. Even the misappropriation of the event of history known as the Boston Tea Party misses the meaning of that incident.

They maintain that Obama is akin to King George which is ridiculous on its face. Obama hasn't shown a willingness to suppress the Tea Party, in fact, wants to compromise with them in Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 02:38 PM

Tea Party talking points??

You mean like Democratic Party talking points, or the Republican Party talking points??..Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day!

Sure, EVERYBODY has A truth here and there, but then they stuff in a bunch of crap in it for you to swallow!

let's not make a meal of the crap, and spit out the rest!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 03:07 PM

". . . Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day!"

BLOODY BRILLIANT!! These original thoughts just keep pouring out!

(I'm trying to figure out what the heck he's struggling to say in that post.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 03:30 PM

Taxed Enough Already.
Hmmm. Most of the members do not even realize that their taxes actually have gone down under Obama. They claim they have gone up. They have not. This is not a personl or political truth. It is fact. Saying otherwise is in fact a talking point.

Taxed Enough Already.
Hmmm. Desparately concerned about spending money that is not in the treasury. Where the hell where they when GWB started the two longest wars in US history and kept the costs off the budget - completely on borrowed money. Obama put the costs back in the budget and that is a big part of the increase in debt on his watch. Not a personal or political truth - straight-up fact. Any talk of the debt and borrowning that ignores this is pure talking points.

Taxed Enough Already are terribly concerned about big government. Where the hell where they when GWB increased the size of government (both in terms of expenditures and personnel). Why is Perry their hero when over half of Texas' job growth has been in government jobs? These are facts, not open to debate. Actual facts.

TEA party is not driven by facts. They seem to not really care about facts. They are being fed bullshit facts by their corporate serf lords. Bullshit intended to scare them about gays or muslims or socialists so they will blindly follow the very people who are raping them mercilessly.

Now that is a tasty meal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 05:57 PM

Don,

I hate to tell you this but GfinS has become the Lyndon LaRouche of Mudville... No internal compass... Just free association rants... Glad she has her music...

I mean, she is a complete opposite of TIA who is very consistent in her politics, values and morals... And you always know exactly where TIA is coming from... No surprises...

Might of fact, there are times when I think that GfinS is another creation of LH's but the music links she posts aren't exactly LHish...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 06:24 PM

Thanks Bobert.

Let's see if anyone dismisses these actual facts just because they are compiled by Truthout.

If anyone feels that Truthout is spewing crap, please follow the links to the original sources...the actual numbers.

http://www.truth-out.org/three-charts-email-your-right-wing-brother-law/13146261

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 06:32 PM

Right, Bobert!

Just for kicks, I've done my little high school teacher or college professor trick with some of the things that GfS has posted—not in quotes, but put forth as his/her own stuff—where the teacher or prof suspects plagiarism when a student turns in an assigned paper and the prof knows the student doesn't have the kind of writing skills the paper shows. I take a whole sentence or passage, put the whole thing in quotes so Google will look for it specifically, and lo and behold! more often than not I come up with the web article where s/he got it. And some of them have been very heavy with Lyndon La Rouche's stuff.

Interesting theory about GfS being another of LH's creations, but GfS's posts don't display the kind of wit and intelligence that LH does. I do think LH is a bright fellow, even if his reading of history is often dead wrong, he often assumes an "above it all" attitude, and talks as if he's sitting cross-legged on the top of Mt. Everest. He can at least string a cohesive sentence together. LH may look at all of us as if we're just denizens of an ant farm, but GfS comes on like he's full and anger and hatred, and wants desperately to feel smarter and more knowledgeable than than everybody, but with nothing s/he can really feel smart and superior about.

Kinda sad when the only way a person can get any attention is to run around kicking sand in everybody else's potato salad.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 06:34 PM

Excellent article, TIA!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 06:44 PM

LH is a good man, and it ain't right to bring him into this thread in that manner. I don't always see eye-to-eye with him, but seeing is a two-way street.

GfS is angry and insulting, often without reason, and he/she insulted me once for no discernable reason so kiss my ass eh?, period.

I can no longer be arsed to participate much in this thread because I dislike having my intelligence insulted by rants I can't understand or comprehend. It's like some sort of closed club I certainly don't need in my life.

No offence to anyone, and if anyone IS insulted, sorry. BFN

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 07:04 PM

I don't think 999 full grasped what was being said here.

It's too bad that 999 and others haven't registered. If they had, then much that is said in open forum could be taken to Personal Messages (PMs), and if there are issues or misunderstandings, they can be worked out through that channel.

No intention to denigrate LH, but what was said about him here is evident in open forum and is well-known by all—including LH himself. LH is one of the only Mudcatters who, from time to time, has tended to support some of GfS's positions, much to the delight of GfS, of course. At the same time, LH has come on strong in opposition to witless insults and expressions of general animosity, for which I applaud him. My only quibble with him is that he often refuses to take a stand on moral or ethical issues that are clear-cut. I have twitted him about this in the past.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 07:08 PM

OK, Don. I did misunderstand. Apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 07:31 PM

No problem.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: pdq
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 07:36 PM

You can sometimes get a PM to Brewster MacCloud through his old Mudcat handle, if he logs in (hint).

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 09:19 PM

Listen, ya'll... I know that LH is too bright to invent GfinS... I was kinda funnin' there...

Yo, brucie... Hang in there... This thread is about the Tea Party and not GfinS... Plus, I love ya, brother and always enjoy your posts... You got a grip on this stuff...

Wow, Don... I thought I was the only person on the planet who saw the Lyndon LaRouche in GfinS... But must admit that I loved it when LaRouche accused Nancy Reagan of heading up a drug cartel.. I mean, that's good comedy...

Thanks, TIA, for that article... I loved it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 09:42 PM

I know that, Bobert. Not to worry.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:34 PM

I have had my disagreements with LH, but he always posts as himself (except when he is obviously and often hilariously not). Others have (quite transparently) posted under different guest handles in support of each other in a way that suggests to me a clearly disturbed individual with whom I try to refrain engaging directly. But sometimes I am weak.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:39 PM

And just in case you have not noticed...I love graphs made from actual data.


http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24editorial_graph2.h

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:02 AM

Love 'em, TIA! Keep 'em comin'

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 02:49 AM

Guest,999: "It's like some sort of closed club I certainly don't need in my life."

I've been working on some post production stuff, and haven't been checking in. ..But what a gaggle of bitchy magpies!!!

This happens when they got clobbered, in a rational discussion, using FACTS! When they CAN NOT prove their point, they resort to personal attacks, and enlisting other 'like-minded' lightweights, who can't think for themselves. (You know, all that PM-ing and twittering, behind the scenes, as I pegged him before on that!

But STUPID is as STUPID does!!

The previous posts, by the 'Close Minded Nag-pie Club', has posted several COMPLETELY erroneous assumptions and presumptions, about me, and Little Hawk, that, all things considered, and considering the source, I find a quite complimentary!!!

I guess the unifying factor is they THINK Obama is doing a swell job!
....they THINK Obama is doing a swell job, and find their hero completely vulnerable to losing another term. That being said, I don't think the list of leading contenders is much to crow about either!...but I'm not as 'pissy' about it! JEEZ-LOUISE!!

Look guys, and almost guys, and wannabe guys, Obama ain't lived up to his hype..NO doubt about it, and if he gets wiped out in the election, you'll have NOTHING to crow about!..BUT, be of good cheer...his replacement will be the same fucking thing, with a different face and name!

...and for the life of me, I can't think of ONE fucking thing he has done right, for the country!
His 'stimulus' fraud was great to the guys who got the money, but it didn't go where it was supposed to....but the Democratic talking point is, "It kept the 'recession' from being worse'..WHAT a load of horse shit!!!....It was a fucking fraud! So, you tell me where the money went, as the talking point has directed you....because so far, you've all failed miserably!...
Oh, and BTW, I'm not "angry" or 'delusional'....but I HAVE posted things AHEAD of them happening, called it the way it would be, was proven RIGHT,..and proved it! They were accurate, and based on NOBODY'S fucking talking points! YOU, in turn have been repeatedly wrong!...so you get whiny, and slanderous, and quite immature!
Then you applaud a phony graph, that shows that Obama's spending is only $2 1/2 TRILLION short of what is already well known!

So tell me, Oh wise one, where did the stimulus money go? Who got it?

Did it got to Americans? Did it got to benefit the taxpaying public?
Do you think Obama knows?..and/or approves?

Tell us Oh, Wise One!
This should be fun!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 08:09 AM

Data as reported by states and other recipients

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 08:46 AM

GfinS's 2:49AM post: "Exhibit A", your honor...

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:32 AM

Ya know, if everyone just ignored (whomever) they would eventually get tired of the silence, and go and annoy some other site.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:35 AM

More mouth farts from GfS: a rude noise, an offensive odor, and nothing behind it but hot air. Pfft!

And no, GfS, this isn't me insulting you. This is a real assessment of your communication skills. You are like a loud, out of tune musician who insists on jamming with good players. After refusing, for years, to support your words with any facts or logic, accusing others of doing that just makes you sound like a Republican. Please go tune your guitar, spend some time with a metronome, and practice playing the right chords at a volume that allows you to hear the other musicians in the room. You're a train wreck in any serious conversation.

Aside from the disastrous form your communication takes, your words in various posts don't add up. You claim to be a Christian, but you are full of bile and insults. I guess that would mean that you are more of an Old Testament Christian than a New Testament one, in other words, no Christian at all. You claim to want us to live according to Constitution, but you insist on denying normal civil rights to gay people. You claim to not be a Tea Party person, but you keep coming back to supporting their bid to destroy our economy because of international banking interests. You claim that everyone else is only using talking points that were fed to them by some outside cabal of mind-controllers -- conspiracy theory run amok, quite insulting to others, and a transparent trick to remove yourself from the need to take anything that anyone else says seriously. You act like you have real conviction for the things you say, but you don't have enough courage to put your name on your writings.

When it comes to communicating in a realistic way, you're a weenie. Mouth farts! Pfft!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 12:38 PM

The element that made England become a second rate power was the advent of coal.
What could do the same for America is oil. (Hello Libya).
The Keystone XL pipeline might be a defining moment in Obama's reelection.

Americans for Prosperity, the Koch Brothers and other corporate backers of the Tea Party are attempting a monopoly on the energy market and using these T.P. "brown shirts" as a tool to promote their agenda. They realize that religion is a rallying cry for grass roots fundamentalists as did Karl Rove in the election of Bush (Shrub).

Americans might be foolish enough to swallow Tea Party pablum and push a Perry into the White House. A lot will depend on election fraud, black boxes and who does the vote counting in 2012.

Obama can only go so far without becoming a martyr, gun-toting America prevails,
racism is rampant, terrorism is not Muslim but neo-Nazi white ring groups. Do you really think corporate America would really care about Obama's life? They might if he went along with their agenda.

Don't count on Obama changing by being more aggressive on the job front or anything else that will cross Wall Street.

Where are the tumbrels?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:02 PM

I donno, Strings...

I think the T.P. had the high ground (no meaning the correct position) on the debt ceiling circus that it manufactured but two things came out of that fiesko:

1. The American people blamed the T.P./Repub more for it and

2. 85% of Americans say we are on the wrong track

This opens up a big opportunity for Obama to propose pretty much what he wants as long as in doing so he:

1. Reminds people what happened to a fragile recovery when Repub badgered FDR into stop spending and

2. Make no bones about it that if the Repub balk then they, and not him of the Dems, will own what ever economy the American people have come November, 2012...

I see this as a perfect storm for Obama to kick some ass...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 01:53 PM

JohnP: "More mouth farts from GfS: a rude noise, an offensive odor, and nothing behind it but hot air. Pfft!
And no, GfS, this isn't me insulting you....." Blah blah.

No, John, it's just you running your mouth uncontrollably, with out any connection to your brain. ..but I understand it.... you just run on immature emotions, and have to vent a rant somewhere. Perhaps, you might consider seeking professional help..and while you're at it, tell the counselor about your obsession with the expulsion of gas....even if it's the only expression that makes any sense!

I noticed Don didn't 'weigh in' on where the money went'. I think he knows that the governments explanation is a crock. TIA posted a lame cover-up....because that's NOT what Bernanke and Geithner said...but I guess if a fraudulent graph, based on political nonsense will appease the simple minded, I'm sure he is content with that.
You can go back to sleep, now.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 02:58 PM

I guess that would mean that you are more of an Old Testament Christian than a New Testament one ...

No, just a Tea Potty Christian[sic]

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:00 PM

Old Testament Christian.

Those are called "Jews"

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:06 PM

As I said:   like a squashed bug trying to sort itself out. Just a bit uncoordinated.....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:20 PM

Nope, GfS, more mouth farts. Here is why I say that. I, you see, am willing to back up my words with evidence, while not calling you stupid. I don't think you are stupid -- I'm just calling you on your inadequate communication and your unsupported positions on current events.

Mouth fart: a rude noise, a foul odor, and nothing behind it but hot air.

Rude noise:
you running your mouth uncontrollably, with out any connection to your brain. ..... you just run on immature emotions, and have to vent a rant somewhere. Perhaps, you might consider seeking professional help . . .

You see, here you are not saying anything other than an insult that is demonstrably not truth. You have no evidence of me talking without thought or running on immature emotions.

Foul odor:
All your invective against legalizing gay marriage while claiming to be Constitution-minding Christian. And other stances you take.

Hot air:
Everyone you have ever been in a discussion with on Mudcat has challenged you to support what you say with facts and logic. You have never done so because, I assume, you don't have the communication skills to express yourself adequately and you don't have an ethical leg to stand on with your pronouncements.

If you ever decide to learn to write intelligently and come up with some rational explanations of your statements, by all means chime in. Until then, you're the loud, out of tune, out of rhythm musician in the jam session.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:27 PM

Nope, that is the official tracking site for where the stimulus money went/is going.
If it is fraudulent, you really need to contact the authorities.
Remember, there is protection for whistleblowers.
Go for it.

Better yet, show me the "real" data, and I will blow the whistle. I promise.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:28 PM

I just don't geddit. One ignores a crazy person, unless they are doing actual harm, in which case you institutionalize them. Why don't youse guize just limit yourselves to talking with people--most of those here--who can construct an argument, cite references, and refrain from ad hominem attacks, and just leave the nutz alone?

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:29 PM

Old Testament Christian.
Those are called "Jews"

Well, not if they call themselves Christians. For some reason Old Testament Christians, as a group, tend to be a particularly foul-minded bunch. Not true of Jews in general. The Old Testament Christians seem to think that Jesus commanded them to be hateful, vengeful, and vindictive. Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:44 PM

Yes Saul, good advice. I tried that for a while, but GfS keeps jumping in and taking over perfectly good conversations. Now I enjoy him as a source of entertainment and a harmless way of seeing how superior I am at ethics, thought, and communication. I enjoy the exercise of my skills and he provides such a nice contrast. Not the best of motives, I know, but he gave up any claim to being treated nicely a long time ago. So I've been poking fun at him. But I'll try ignoring him again.

Actually, even talking with someone who communicates so poorly can serve to solidify ideas and ways of communicating them. I just wish there was a right-wing person around here who could provide me with a real debate. Unfortunately, all of them seem to be good at shouting slogans but terrible at going any deeper into the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:50 PM

saulgoldie is perfectly correct...but just one more point.

The "graph" I linked to is actually an interactive map that shows the location, scope, cost, and employment consequences of every project recieving stimulus money. It is searchable by zip code (as well as other parameters).

And, at the very top of the page there is this statement:

"Recovery.gov is the U.S. government's official website that provides easy access to data related to Recovery Act spending and allows for the reporting of potential fraud, waste, and abuse."

The phrase "reporting of potential fraud, waste, and abuse." is an active link.

Use it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:51 PM

From The Onion.


"WASHINGTON—With a massive wildfire currently raging out of control in his district, Tea Party Caucus member Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) pressed Congress to pass immediate tax breaks Tuesday to combat the rapidly spreading blaze. "This fire has already burned hundreds of square miles and left thousands of helpless families with only one hope: across-the-board income tax cuts and a sharply lower corporate tax rate," said Franks, stating that broad-based tax relief would spur investment and extinguish the towering flames that grow larger by the minute. "We must act now. The longer the oppressive tax burden on honest, hardworking individuals remains unaddressed, the larger and more deadly this fire will become." According to staffers, Franks plans to honor the nine individuals who have perished in the blaze by introducing additional legislation this week that would eliminate Medicaid."

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 04:13 PM

Well do I remember a coffeehouse in the University District, one where I often sang during the early 1960s (CLICKY). The manager had a roster of singers whom he paid reasonably well and regularly, and usually there were three or four of us holding forth on Friday and Saturday evenings. Sometimes we were up front by ourselves, but usually all three or four of us were on stage, sometimes swapping off doing solos, sometimes singing together (generally unrehearsed, but it seemed to come off well).

The audiences loved it, and packed the place on Fridays and Saturdays. It was less like a performance and more like a party.

Every now and then someone new would come in and ask if they could do a guest set. The manager usually said okay, and sometimes he would actually hire them. Alice Stuart, a Seattle folk amd blues singer, got her start that way.

I remember one guy who came in with a set of bongos, and without a by-your-leave, he would try to bonk and thump along with the singers. He had neither taste nor sense of rhyhm, and he was a general pain in the ass to both the singers and the audience. Why the manager didn't insert the guy's bongos where the sun doesn't shine and boot him out the door was probably because he was busy in the kitchen most of the time.

Anyway, an audience member requested that I do Greensleeves. Not everybody's favorite these days, but I did a particularly nice version of it, or so people told me. Three verses instead of the twenty or thirty that some people insisted on doing, and I had a lute-like classic guitar accompaniment worked out for it. Actually, the way I did the song, it was part classic guitar solo.

So I did it.

And this cretin tried to follow me on the bongos.

He was totally oblivious to the glares he was getting.

Why, I wonder, am I suddenly reminded of this?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 04:21 PM

And, 999, on my magic electric radio this morning, I heard that some Tea Partiers are calling for the elimination of FEMA.

Considering the mess the inclement weather is causing on the East Coast, that's gonna really help!!

Don Firth

P. S. What're they putting in that tea, anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 04:39 PM

Back to Tea Party talk, Michelle Bachman says the natural disasters hitting the East Coast are due to God being pissed off at politicians for not lowering taxes. She later said it was all a joke, but I noticed that she managed to get the words out there anyway. I think that the fact that she made that sort of "joke" after the publicity surrounding her oddball religious views means it was a calculated move. She's terribly strange, but she's no dummy.

What I wonder about, since the Tea Party is the biggest and newest thing in D.C. these days, how does one avoid the assumption that if God is talking to us with hurricanes, he's talking about the Tea Party?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 05:37 PM

What're they putting in that tea, anyway?

It OUGHT to be strychnine

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 06:18 PM

Seems that every time you turn around Michelle Bachmann has said something either outright incorrect or stupid...

Remind anyone of anyone here???

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 07:39 PM

Yes, The Nagpie Gang!
BRB!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 07:47 PM

OK, graph-guy!

another one...and there is a lot more!!!...want them?

Don't you just LOVE those Government websites?

Oh, and I got GREAT news..but I can only post two links on a post....so..............
(to be continued)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 08:04 PM

The problem is that when ever there is this much $$$ involved there are always going to be ***some*** discrepancies... I mean, if you look at anything under a microscope then you find the imperfections... But to use the less than 1% in discrepancy as justification for pulling the plug on trying to a accomplish anything then no one would ever attempt to do anything...

Another GfinS red herring...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:26 AM

Try not to pee on your shoes, GfS.

Don Firth   {:-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:35 AM

Bobert: "But to use the less than 1% in discrepancy as justification for pulling the plug on trying to a accomplish anything then no one would ever attempt to do anything...
Another GfinS red herring..."

Well, Bobert, Ol' Buddy, I'm glad you brought that up!!!
Being as the Federal reserve is a private institution, 'chartered' by the big boys in Washington, let's see what they have to say about your 1% discrepancy, OKAY? (I certainly hope you learn enough to catch a flash)

This is DEMOCRAT, Alan Grayson, Florida 8th District, questioning Ben Bernanke, about the SAME thing!

OKAY, this is on C-SPAN

Again Grayson, This time questioning the Fed's Inspector General


Just for starters!

GfS

P.S. Don, are your shoes dried off yet?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:40 AM

Bobert: "But to use the less than 1% in discrepancy as justification for pulling the plug on trying to a accomplish anything then no one !


Dennis Kucinich

Just for starters!
Obama's boy Timmy Geithner questioned by Ron Paul

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:42 AM

In what way is this thread improved over the last version?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:44 AM

Timmy and Brad Sherman

This one may interest you....
Marcy Kaptur and Timmy

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:46 AM

Betcha didn't know this!...............

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:51 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woBC5b3Ti0M&NR=1

...and this is just for fun....(sorta)....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:57 AM

one more......

...and most of those were Democrats....saying the same thing I am!!!
..but because I say it, you think I'm a Tea Party Koo-Koo.
Jest shows what you and Donny DON"T know, for being ones who attempt to be 'all knowing'!
Just like I did for you, with 'ALEC'

What a bunch of pretentious phonies!!!!


..and this on just for fun...well, sorta...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:01 AM

Guest, Jon: "In what way is this thread improved over the last version?"

I don't know, they attack and slur, lie and accuse, and get clobbered AGAIN.....but at least I'm being 'nice' about it! (wink!)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:18 AM

Don, the leader of
the pack

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:31 AM

GfS, I thought you and your friend Don were supposed to leave each other alone, and address only the issues. Isn't that right?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 02:15 AM

I did too..did you look further down in the thread?..or just single me out because Don 'complained' again? How many times have I cautioned him, about doing what you just said? I even was commended on being ..wait.....

"From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:46 PM

Well, GUEST,999 and GUEST,Guest from Sanity have proven that civility on Mudcat is actually possible.

Perhaps the Mudcat regulars, aka the Dirty Dozen, could take a break from their reletless nastiness and try acting like people."

AND:.......

From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:09 AM

(GfS):"I repeatedly made calls to NOT escalate the nasty rhetoric"


You have been a paragon of moderation. So, that said, may I add that one must on occasion split hairs, personalities and decisions, and as we see from that sentence, infinitives. Have a nice day."

They do this every time they get clobbered, STICKING TO THE ISSUES!

But, I can abide...but at the same time, let's not have 'selective reprimands'.

Personally, I think they got their asses kicked!...but they still won't listen....even when I reminded them of your previous warnings!

But, OK!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 02:27 AM

..and YES, what I was posting was directly relevant to the topic, because the Tea Party got momentum from being taxed to pay for these clandestine banking deals. I also acknowledge that the Tea Party has been co-opted by the Koch's and others, just like the 'peace movement', of the '60's, was co-opted by the Democratic Party!..You remember.. when we were just ordinary people, who hated war!!...

Respectfully,
gfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 04:33 AM

Let's get an education!!!!

Like I've been saying for a LONG time about Corruption!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:18 AM

So much for Obama's bullshit 'stimulus' plan!

More manipulated interest rates, from CORRUPTION!!


Timmy gets laughed at by the Chinese!


But you can't or won't respond.....just slur, falsely accuse, and try to discredit myself, and the TRUTH of what I've been saying....then maybe, it's time to reconsider YOUR erroneous positions, and stop blaming everybody else. Little Timmy 'Tax Cheat' Geithner, is Obama's guy, and if you don't think this is intentional, through 'Bush's and Obama's administrations'(?), and the IMF, and that the fascist pigs, are only confined to one party, your delusions border on self imposed, willful mental illness!!!

.....and you wonder WHY the Tea Party is gaining in numbers????

As for me, I'm an Independent!!!..and to convince me, and a LOT of other independents, you'll have to do better, than play the blame game, and slur, and trying immature games of discrediting!!

Ok, you can go back to sleep, now!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:49 AM

I watched several of the clips, GfinS, and none of them justify defunding our government, shutting down agencies like the EPA, FEMA, the Federal Reserve...

Maybe you can explain, in you own words and not microscopic clips on the daily workings of various agencies, why we should turn our nation over to phony preachers and Wall Street crooks to run???

Tell *US* just how that would improve our nation, por favor???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:23 AM

And just as a follow up, GfinS...

Back during my first lap thru college I had to take biology and I recall a professor telling the class about these microscopic organisms (nematodes?) that live on our skin is such abundance that if we took away us and just left these critters we would be recognizable to others... Then Dr. Fienburg (why do I remember his name???) showed a highly magnified photo of one of these things and it was disgusting...

The point is that if you take anything and take it down to the microscopic level, as you have done with these links, then the more the magnification the less one is able to see the "big picture"...

That is precisely what you and your Tea Party/Libertarian buddies are trying to do... You are trying to use the minute details as a smoke screen... This is what Teribus tried to do to justify the Iraq War... He would never stay focused of the big picture because it didn't fir his argument so he would delve into the microscopic world to as subterfuge...

When you want to talk BIG PICTURE, fine... Tell us again why Michelle Bachmann and Wall Street crooks should run the show...

No more subterfuge... This is a philosophical discussion about the best way to run a very large and wealthy country...

BTW, I don't give a rat's ass about credit default swaps and derivatives... Real people don't get bogged down in those little ballgames that the super wealthy play as ways of extracting more wealth for themselves...

I mean, your Tea Party says its "grasroots"... That means the ordinary folks... Problem is that the policies ya'll expose aren't ordinary folk policies... They are policies that the super rich want for themselves to extract wealth, pollute and poison... You and your buds are just their ignorant pawns...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:54 AM

GfS: YOU were the one who started with me. Remember that.

As for you feeling you'd been attacked because I corrected you regarding split infinitives, listen up, boyo: it wasn't an attack. I was simply trying to improve your English, thus making it easier for you to say what you mean with less chance of confusing your readers.

I drop into this thread from time to time, gi'e it a read and move on. You should consider doing the same.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 12:48 PM

GUEST,999, Actually when I replied to you, I replied in way way, that had a little 'fun' with it, and actually, dug what you said. The problem is, PERCEPTION. If someone thinks that I'm using a 'less than congenial tone', such as in your case, you might not be taking it in the spirit it was meant in. We've had some differing opinions, but I don't look at you as hostile, and have looked forward to what you have to post, because you have appeared to be open-minded, and NOT just spouting some ridiculously contrived party line.

Regards!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:11 PM

Proverbs 14:7

"Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge."

Archie Bunker: "What's that s'posed to mean!??"
Father Majeski:   "Don't waste your time arguing with an idiot!"

(Busy day. Better things to do.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 01:29 PM

Bobert, having a conversation about the Tea Party is good, but it's not possible to do so rationally with GfS in the room. Can we try completely ignoring him? Trying to reason with him is sort of like President Obama trying to compromise with the House of Representatives. Ya know it's a lost cause going in, and it just mucks up the conversation with a bunch of crap.

Hopefully,
John

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 02:15 PM

Here we go again...the slurs...why don't some of you at least direct to the subject. So far, it's just avoidance of the issue..as usual...because you ain't got a defense! It's all just blather...unless you can do otherwise!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 02:38 PM

Jaysus!! Look who's talking!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 02:44 PM

Try for ONCE, just try, to at least state ONE FACT!..and less of the hate rhetoric, because if you represent a 'better' party, you've only shown contempt, and hateful ignorance. Try promoting what is GOOD about your position...if there is any!..because the way it appears, and you can go through the threads to see, ALL you do is promote disinformation, and hate all those who call you on it!
No wonder the Democrats are taking a beating...look what they stand for! I think even children can promote higher things than hate...don't you?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 03:22 PM

So, what's more scary about the Tea Party, their economic policies, their desire for a theocracy, or their outrageous lying/believing of lies in the marketplace of ideas?

Have they shot themselves in the foot with their ideological purity and lack of compromise, or are there enough people in this country who see this technique as a good thing?

Bachmann and Perry are both eager to put their religion front and center in their campaigns; presumably in their potential administrations as well. Are there enough good Christians to offset the ignorant who will vote for them on that basis alone?

One thing I've been thinking as a result of the Tea Party movement is that it might be a good idea to require that we pass a civics test before we can vote. An idea fraught with problems and potential for abuse, I know, but what we have now is certainly full of abuse and problems. Most of our citizenry, apparently, believes we live in a society where the majority rules on any subject and the courts don't have the right to strike down laws. Should we sue every public school in the country who graduated anyone who thinks this way? Should we make it the highest priority to criminalize purposeful lying by public officials?

Here's another idea: the House of Representatives under the rule of the Tea Party spent a LOT of time trying to pass laws that were absolutely guaranteed to not make it into law and that would have been struck down by the courts even if they did. They spent a LOT of time reading the Constitution during House sessions. They held up funding for things as a gesture that ending up making those things a LOT more expensive. They sent our economy into another tail spin -- I'm a good deal more poor than I was before they scared the markets into a downturn. Can we sue them for wasting/losing all that money?

What about the damn tax oath they all signed? Doesn't that mean they have broken their oath of office? They have agreed to turn over their free will to a man who was never elected and who is certainly not our Constitution.

Is there any possibility of creating a culture where a politician's religion or lack thereof is a completely private affair?

Of course, some of these problems would go away if we took all money out of politics, but that's a whole other can o' worms.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:16 PM

John P: "Here's another idea: the House of Representatives under the rule of the Tea Party spent a LOT of time trying to pass laws that were absolutely guaranteed to not make it into law and that would have been struck down by the courts even if they did. They spent a LOT of time reading the Constitution during House sessions. They held up funding for things as a gesture that ending up making those things a LOT more expensive. They sent our economy into another tail spin -- I'm a good deal more poor than I was before they scared the markets into a downturn. Can we sue them for wasting/losing all that money?

What about the damn tax oath they all signed? Doesn't that mean they have broken their oath of office? They have agreed to turn over their free will to a man who was never elected and who is certainly not our Constitution."

Ah! finally a good post!
About the oath, we've had several administrations who routinely break their oath of office, as if it is merely ceremonial...nothing ever comes of it.(Too bad)....
As far as turning over 'free will' to unelected officials:...YES!.., and we've had a slew of 'Czars' in various departments who are completely unaccountable for their actions as well!...and the same goes for Bernanke, and his band of white collar thieves.

As far as your first point, the Tea Party was not the cause of your buck not going too far...that is a 'political talking point', blown out of proportion. I know it may have been a pain in the ass sitting through a lot of the links that I just provided, if you don't understand what they are talking about, but the economy was FAR out of control, even before the T.P. came into existence. It has become comfortable, almost 'chic' to blame it all on them, but during the Bush years, when the GOP had control of everything, spending went berserk. After the midterms, when the Democrats swept a lot of the GOP out of office, but before Obama took the White House, the purse strings, of the spending, was in the Democrat controlled Congress.
But a lot of that doesn't matter as much, as the banker elite, using taxpayer monies, to LEND out, against unsecured 'equities', which in fact, were bonds and debt notes. In the regular world, that is called 'Pyramiding'....and HIGHLY illegal! It has been going on for years!
As it now stands, we could handle defense, entitlements, positive cash flow, etc etc, IF the corruption in the Fed, IMF, and the bankers, had not run up their indiscriminate scams, using 'BORROWED' tax revenues, and then wanting to jack up the taxes, to cover their asses...and bailout THEIR OWN institutions, and those of their cronies. To accomplish this, they have 'bought off' many of the politicians of BOTH parties, to assure themselves, that they would get the appropriations!! In a couple of the links, Bernanke would NOT answer the Congressmen in the hearings, as to where the money went!...and in one segment, even threatened to crash the economy, if Congress would vote to audit the FED!!!
I provided an onslaught of video links, and you can watch the actual hearings. On several, there is a link to watch the ENTIRE hearings. Bobert lays a rap down about watching little bits, and making a big deal over it, but the WHOLE thing is there, IF anyone is really interested in getting the whole story!!!...but it seems that few really want to know the WHOLE story..especially if it expands the limits beyond their talking points manifestos!
Independents, and the T.P., have been gaining numbers exponentially, from the fallout, from the performances of the two main parties. Now we have THREE(almost), and I find none of them reliable, to the FACTS.
The C-SPAN links are all there, with NO 'news media spin' IF you are really interested!

Have a good day!..........(unless you unleash some 'naughty slurs')

Take a look.....you might get a better understanding of the picture...and believe it or not, 'Party loyalists, from the two main parties, would rather you didn't! Don't listen to them...check it out yourself!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:31 PM

Once again, I humbly suggest that "sane" people just ignore the postings of people who repeatedly decline to cite facts, and follow anything vaguely resembling a logical path, and use ad hominem attacks.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:37 PM

10-4, Saul.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: John P
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 05:57 PM

About the oath, we've had several administrations who routinely break their oath of office, as if it is merely ceremonial...nothing ever comes of it.(Too bad)....

I agree, and I agree that it is dreadful. The difference in this case is that the Tea Party folks publicly signed an oath that contradicts their oath of office. That's a new wrinkle.

As far as your first point, the Tea Party was not the cause of your buck not going too far...that is a 'political talking point', blown out of proportion.

Well, things were getting better and then the Tea Party started screwing with our credit rating, markets and fatcats got spooked, and I lost money. I still blame them, but not, obviously, for the entire recession. They just made it worse at a time when it was starting to improve. By the way, I don't really know what the current talking points are, since I never pay any attention to them. You must be thinking of someone else.

Take a look.....you might get a better understanding of the picture...and believe it or not, 'Party loyalists, from the two main parties, would rather you didn't! Don't listen to them...check it out yourself!

GfS, I really don't mind you being around when you post anything of substance that doesn't include a bunch of insults. This post of yours was way better than usual, but you still seem to have the need to put others down. In this case, you are making unfounded assumptions about the state of my education and the source of my thoughts. Please believe that I don't trust any political party, the IMF, the Fed, Congress, the president, or anyone who accepts bribes, legal or otherwise. I don't pay attention to talking points. Perhaps you could carry on a conversation without the baggage?

That said, I think you and I are largely in agreement about what the world looks like. The difference is the conclusions we draw from this information. You sometimes seem willing to throw out the baby with the bath water; a case in point is the fact that you have written in support of the Tea Party mucking about with the debt limit -- you seem to think their actions were justified because of the criminal state of our economy and the fact that big bankers have us by the short hairs. I agree about the economy and the short hairs, but think the Tea Party was trying to fix the problem in a way that only made it worse. They don't really seem to think things through. The rest of their ideology, of course, ranges from heartless selfishness to outright cruelty.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 06:20 PM

John, I DON"T agree entirely with the Tea Party..never did...even when they were soliciting people to send tea bags to Washington.(There were a slug of e-mails going around before it was an 'official' movement, urging folks to do that). I've ALWAYS been leery of the T.P. but, as I've said before....they were a reaction to the country's growing disapproval with the way our government were completely IGNORING the will of the people!...and as I've said a bazzilion times, but party loyalists(at any cost, or sanity), REFUSE to admit that their particular party, either one, had nothing to do with it..which is, of course, nonsense. I have posted repeatedly, that the party rhetoric, is only dividing the country, and serving as a distraction, from the thieves and traitors, who are operating, behind the scenes!
Things only escalate, when the boobs start deflecting facts and start accusing. These are the same boobs, that rarely post ANYTHING factual. then it goes off from there.
OPINIONS are NOT proof!
Political agendas are NOT always in the behalf of the people.
Political 'organizers' and wannabe 'activists', are NOT always cognizant of the validity behind what they are 'organizing' about.
Nor do they particularly care.....just so long as they can be 'active' about something....and therefore having a sense of self importance!
If they have a case..just state it....if someone comes along, and adds to it, fine... if someone else has info, that they didn't know, that's no reason to get pissy about it..a rational person would say THANK YOU!..I didn't know that..or let me check it out..not all this nonsense.
So, excuse me if I go off on them. THEY are the ones doing the damage, and keeping people ignorant and divided.

OK..Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:24 PM

Couple things...

Bernanke not knowing where all the money went that was pumped into the European markets is not unusual... The loans went thru European Union and then they made decisions as to which banks in Europe needed assistance... That's on them... Not Bernanke... I mean, this is exactly the kinda crap that all those links are... They are out there to try to narrowly define the issues so that we don't ask the big questions...

Look up "subterfuge", GfinS... That's what all those links are all about and guess what???

You are not alone... I see the same games being played at the Washington Post blogs... Same exact tactics by the fer right, which BTW I include you, who just don't want to talk plainly about the big picture... The big picture, something that you WON'T address, is why you think that phony-preachers and the Koch brothers to run the show??? That is the real story here... Not the BS links which eman very little...

I just took the Bernenke one but I could take any of them and show them to be nothing more than ***subterfuge*** because you people don't want to talk about the role of government... You want to change the subject...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:03 PM

"they [the tea party] were a reaction to the country's growing disapproval with the way our government were completely IGNORING the will of the people"

You are buttering the bread on both sides and wondering why it's slippin' outta yer hand.

The tea party was not, is not nor ever will be a grassroots party. In earlier posts you have stated that they have funding (well yeah!) from rich people. Rich people have seldom done a damned thing that isn't in their own interest. GfS: ya can't have it both ways.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Democrats were adding to the coffers of the teabaggers. Keriste, Jaysus, go to Google images and look for pics of signs they take to demonstrations. The English is deplorable.

There seem to be two or three 'stages' to the 'grassroots' movement:
1) An influx of organizers either doing it from the goodness of their hearts 2) and/or a serious injection of cash to increase their heart goodnesses 3) the rest of us to wonder 'cui bono'. Answer that and Bob's yer uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:03 PM

BTW, there is a reason why the Tea Party wants to fuck with the Feds... The reasons go back to Lyndon LaRouche and his call for a "gold standard"... We are getting the same from the far right again... First of all, the gold standard is last century... It's like going back to carburetors... No, it's like going back to horse and buggy...

But here's the deal... The right is intent on striping every conceivable tool that the th3e federal government has to compete... That's what this is about... The right wants one thing... Get the black guy out!!! Period...

One of the4 tolls that the Fed has that worries the right is devaluing the dollar by putting more into circulation...

Well, lets look at what that does... It doesn't effect prices at hoem all that much (maybe 2% inflation) but it amkes our goods and services cheaper on the work marker meaning that the rest of the world will buy more of our stuff and more people will be hired... The right doesn't want more people to get hired...

That's what is behind this all out assault on the Feds... Stripping the US economy and it's tools to compete...

In your own words, GfinS, tell me why you think I'm wrong... No links... They are all BS... Show us what you understand about economics...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:11 PM

.


"they [the tea party] were a reaction to the country's growing disapproval with the way our government were completely IGNORING the will of the people"

You are buttering the bread on both sides and wondering why it's slippin' outta yer hand.

The tea party was not, is not nor ever will be a grassroots party. In earlier posts you have stated that they have funding (well yeah!) from rich people. Rich people have seldom done a damned thing that isn't in their own interest. GfS: ya can't have it both ways.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999 There's the rest.
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:12 PM

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Democrats were adding to the coffers of the teabaggers. Keriste, Jaysus, go to Google images and look for pics of signs they take to demonstrations. The English is deplorable.

There seem to be two or three 'stages' to the 'grassroots' movement:
1) An influx of organizers either doing it from the goodness of their hearts 2) and/or a serious injection of cash to increase their heart goodnesses 3) the rest of us to wonder 'cui bono'. Answer that and Bob's yer uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 08:16 PM

Exactly... Hundreds of million$$$ for thousands of community organizers, offices, phones, ads, ads and more ads, buses, FOX, etc...

The Tea Party is boughtg and owned by the rich and most of them are too stupid to know that are being used against their own best interests...

It's no wonder, however, that the folks who were elected to Congress are the richest incoming "freshman class" by far in the history of our country with an average net worth of $1.4M...

You and your Flea Baggers are suckers, GfinS...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:02 PM

You and your Flea Baggers are suckers

Close, Bobert, but ya need to swap out an "s" for an "f".

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:24 AM

Delete the other one, I typed in an important word wrong!..thank you!


Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:17 AM

OK..First with Bobert, You made a jump in your logic and changed what I actually said.
"But here's the deal... The right is intent on striping every conceivable tool that the th3e federal government has to compete... That's what this is about... The right wants one thing... Get the black guy out!!! Period."

Talking about 'horse and buggy days'....you are pulling up the race card again. This is an antiquated talking point from the civil rights days. The so-called liberal left has worn it out, and does not really even apply here. From YOUR neighborhood, maybe, but the rest of the nation, and with me, it is just another whiny cat call of 'racist!' It used to work, when it was valid, but you are attempting to hijack the issue, into something it is clearly not. The T.P. was not founded as a an anti black gig. That is YOUR take, from who ever fed you that crap. OK?
You may want to rebut that, but I'm not wasting my time with it. You are flat out wrong about that! We've been over that enough. So let's move forward.

Next, you stated that actual footage of the Congressional hearings were, "No links... They are all BS".

Well most all of the links, except for two, were of DEMOCRATS grilling the Fed Chairman, The Fed Inspector General, and Tim Geithner....and they were RIGHT in doing so! Also, the links were of the entire questioning of those people, until the time allotted ran out! AND tit was on C-Span...not Fox, MSNBC, PBR, or any other 'news' media. Being as the questioning was mostly by the Democrats, then you call it BS, sorta defeats your stance on the Democrats. Sorta like that butter on both sides of the bread! I agree with what they were saying...if YOU don't, maybe you're bantering about the wrong party. Maybe YOU should be a Republican, or a Tea Partier. So, you are not making sense, in regard to your party affiliation! My take on it, is that they were absolutely correct in doing so, and the context of what they were saying. I guess you missed the part where Bernanke flat out refused to tell them WHO the recipients were. ..and Alan Grayson,(D), asked "This is taxpayer money, don't you think the taxpayer has a right to know?" Bernanke stonewalled him, and refuse to say. Grayson is RIGHT!
next, somewhere on the list of links was Kucinich,(D)Kucinich the Federal Reserve is paying banks NOT to make loans " One Fraud after Another" ...but LENDING to unknown, undisclosed FOREIGN bankers. Now I thought, that we all were against the rich elite fucking with our economy. You call them all Republicans, Kucinich, as well as myself, knows that the are "FOREIGNERS". Again, you are not making sense, coherent to your party position! It is also brought out, that the profits are being made for the banking institutions, and little, if any, to the taxpayers.....but then when their little venture fails, we have to bail them out!!!! You think that is good economics??????
.............and to the tune of $4 Trillion, just since Obama???? Come on!...Maybe YOU should give us a lesson on economics, without using links!...and DON'T twist the subject!....and then we have to BORROW from China and Saudi Arabia, to keep this scam afloat??!!?? This makes so much nonsense, except to those PROFITING off the INTEREST, no wonder the Fed threatens to crash the economy if audited!!!
Ron Paul(R), who the Republicans dislike immensely, articulated the scam VERY clearly, and well..and blew Bernanke away!
So, you talk a good talk, for the left, but in reality, you aren't making any sound, logical sense!

Next, about the gold standard: You must be thinking of yellow gold that is a metal. The next 'gold' standard, will be 'black gold'!..OIL. More on that scam if you want, but when Iraq threatened to go to the Euro, instead of the dollar, back in Bush 41, Desert Storm was the instant result. If OIL is traded with the Euro, as a standard, instead of the dollar, your money won't be worth toilet paper! Venezuela did the same.....as nothing was done to BP, during Obama's administration's fiasco with the gulf spill. Ever wonder why?? I have posted here, on several occasions, that the mid-east turmoil, is to drive the cost of oil UP, so we can/will renege on Kissinger's 1979 deal with the Saudi's, because we're sitting on more oil than in the mid-east. Don't believe me?? Google or Yahoo it up...and do some reading, or watching. It's there, but as you requested, I won't use links!
Happy now?
The American public, has lost their manufacturing to foreign countries, CANNOT produce the wealth to pay the scams and shenanigans of our international banking buddies, and will be serfs when the globalist bankers, now have oil, as their standard. The Democratic process, and representative government, will be 'out the window' and 'under the bus'.
Get it?
Got it?
Good!

in regards to the Tea party, they are re-acting to 'somethin' ain't right', some even have a clue...but its more like 'jumping from the frying pan to the fire'! ALL the 'parties' are funded by some rich fat cats, who are serving themselves, in the 'new deal' to come...including the Democrats! The rank and file of ALL the parties, i think are made up of sincere people, who don't have enough clues, to connect the dots!....but at least some of the Mudcatters, who aren't blocked, from seeing more of the whole picture, should do their homework, and find out that what I've given to you is TRUE. I have NO motive to deceive you..no myself!..I'm just sharing with my musician friends(though most of the time they act like simpleton, moronic ostriches, inspecting their own bowels, very closely!

I'll get to Guest,999 in another post. If this one is too long, it might discourage some of you not to want to read that much...BUT, I hope I covered a couple of his questions, in answering yours.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:35 AM

Hey, I just noticed that the ad on top of this page is Glenn Beck advertising for 'Goldline', selling gold.....how far left is this forum?? Money talks, Bullshit walks!
Hey, but money is money!..Where ever the source, huh?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 08:36 AM

You haven't answered my question, GfinS... All you have done is huffed and puffed old material...

Tell me in one short paragraph (sans the hysteria and subterfuge why you think it's perfectly okay the manipulate the value of currency for other countries but why you don't want ***our*** federal government to have the same tools (yes, tools) at our disposal to make our economy more competitive...

I mean, do you even have the slightest idea what I am talking about here??? Did you not take Econ 201 in college??? Rick Perry certainly didn't...

Can you just answer the question without the bull???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 09:19 AM

Well, folks... Another day of the GfinS Show... Meanwhile. here's one for everyone else...

Seems that the media love the "Gong Show" candidates... Doesn't much amtter if they have any understanding of the real world as long as they are very passionate... Sound familiar??? Rhymes with Orge Ush... lol...

So Perry is out there with some of the wackiest ideas about economics I have ever heard... Where did this conspiracy theory come from??? What, China can manipulate the values of it's currency making their goods cheaper on the world market but it's treasonous for the US to do the same??? No wonder the jobs created in Teaxs have been mostly public service jobs using federal $$$??? Go figure... You won't create jobs until you compete, Ricky!!! And you won't compete as long as you want to tie up the federal government, Ricky...

Tell you one thing, if Ricky ever becomes Prez. we're going to be in heap of trouble that makes the current problems look like the good ol' days...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 11:58 AM

Bobert: "Tell me in one short paragraph (sans the hysteria and subterfuge why you think it's perfectly okay the manipulate the value of currency for other countries but why you don't want ***our*** federal government to have the same tools (yes, tools) at our disposal to make our economy more competitive..."

OTHER countries??? Your question is very misleading. Do you think that the manipulation of ANY foreign or domestic currencies is the job for private banking, when to do it, our people are being manipulated to pay MORE taxes, and pay for the interest rates, for collateral on speculative loans(bet)????...FOR the manipulators, who in turn, charge us interest, when the profits are NOT being paid to the taxpayers...without representation??...or having oversight to which countries, receive it? Do you think it is OK for China to manipulate OUR currency?
Can you explain why the Democrat Congressmen seemingly opposed it, but you don't?
I think YOU are the one 'huffing and puffing'!
Like I said in my previous post, YOU are the one who is arguing in favor, of what you say the Republicans are doing!
So, answer my questions, in return to you!
You are not being consistent.
The HIGHEST part of our deficit, IS the interest on these 'loans'!~
without oversight!!! You think that's OK????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:17 PM

In other words...P-Vine gives you some money to pick up some groceries from the store.... originally the money was going to be used to pay some bills, but she grabs a little she had set aside, and give it to you. But along the way, you meet your old friend Ben, who asks you to lend him that money, because he's on the way to the casino....and he's got a 'hunch' on a sure thing. You give him the money, instead of buying the groceries,and you wait for him at the bar. He comes in, and tells you, that he needs some more. First, are you going to give it to him?...and furthermore, me makes a little, but doesn't give it back to you. When you get back to the house, isn't P-Vine going to ask you where the groceries are?..or the money??... Or what you did with the money she gave you?? So you give her a little story, of how you somehow lost it, and tell her you'll go back to the store, and ask her to give you some more money.
Do you think she's going to cheerfully give it to you??....WITHOUT wanting to know what you are spending it on????

Waving!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:27 PM

Bobert,
What do you get from responding to the troll? You know, trolls whither up and die if you ignore them.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 01:36 PM

Saul Goldie, We are having a civil discussion. If you can't contribute, butt out, and take your slurs and accusations with you!!!!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 02:17 PM

Still no answer... Just more nothingness from the GfinS Subterfuge Factory...

You really don't get economics, do you, GfinS...

Take a college course... Then come back and reread your responses... Not that you aren't very entertaining, mind you... But then again I am one of the few people who used to find Lyndon LaRouche very entertaining...

But you, my dear, are totally clueless when it come to the way currencies work between nations... But, hey, so is Ricky Perry... So don't feel like the Lone Ranger here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 03:54 PM

Hell, take a HIGH SCHOOL economics course.......

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:06 PM

Proverbs 14:7

Also, Proverbs 23:9

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM

How fortunate. A first-time poster.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 06:21 PM

The post to which 999 referred is gone. It was GfS's sock puppet. Pretty sad when the only support you can get is from you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 06:50 PM

Well, Jeri, maybe Michelle Bachmann or Rick Perry will join Mudcat and then GfinS will have some company... None seem to have a clue about basic economics... Wait, where's Lyndon LaRouche??? Norway??? Sweden??? Heck, he's be a hoot to have around here... lol...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 02:52 AM

Don, Proverbs 27:6...because Proverbs 1:7....because Timothy 1:5-8...so, Proverbs 10:17....

Interesting to see you are using Bible verses..the 'left', is going to be pissed at you! As far as Proverbs 14:7, Proverbs 23:9 THANKS! that's good advice, when dealing with your posse!

Jeri, 999, I missed that one, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Bobert: "Well, Jeri, maybe Michelle Bachmann or Rick Perry will join Mudcat and then GfinS will have some company..."

That's ironic, because the links I provided you, were mostly from Democrats, agreeing with what I've been saying to you, for a long time....so, Don had some great advice for me to you....Proverbs 23:9!
Why is it, you pontificate about how right on the Democrats are, then when I post a link, where they are questioning the practices of the globalist bankers, you change stripes, and side with the globalist bankers??????

I answered your question, very exhaustively, using the words of YOUR party's Congressmen, in the Congressional hearings....maybe YOU need Economics 101, just understand it....but then...Proverbs 23:9.

These guys received a bailout!
Here, these are the guys you are defending, and you want to give MORE to them???????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 09:21 AM

Ya know, this duelling with Guest Insanity is starting to remind me of the old joke about the guy that saw a man repeatedly hitting himself on the head with a large ball-peinn hammer. When asked why he was doing it, he replied "Because it feels so good when I stop."

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:27 AM

You answer is 100% ***incomplete***, GfinS... Sifting thru dozens of links no more tells me what ***you*** understand or believe when it comes to Economics than me going out an digging a hole in the woods...

Quit dodging...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 03:49 PM

Considering his/her unique vantage point, s/he can't actually see what's really going on in the world, which accounts for much of the silly things s/he tends to say.

But there is this:   s/he never has to pay for a colonoscopy.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 04:45 PM

OK, Bobert, what exactly do you want to ask?. Whatever 'question' you said you were asking might have been obscured in other double standard rhetoric. i thought I was pretty thorough...but apparently not. I thought the 'P-Vine' analogy was simple enough for you, but apparently not. So ask it simple...without the insults. I don't know if my answer will suffice, because you keep shifting positions. if I said Obama was the best President we ever had, Don, you, and crew would argue, just because I said it!!

Bobert: "Sifting thru dozens of links no more tells me what ***you*** understand or believe when it comes to Economics than me going out an digging a hole in the woods..."

I'm surprised you haven't figured a way to get a government grant to buy you a backhoe!(winkin' at ya')

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 05:29 PM

". . . if I said Obama was the best President we ever had, Don, you, and crew would argue, just because I said it!!"

You flatter yourself, GfS. Yes, we would argue the point, but not because YOU said it. We'd argue it if ANYONE said it, because, unfortunately, Obama is NOT the best President we ever had. By far.

Like many, I'm sure, I had high hopes for him. But he's proven to be a big disappointment. Not because he is owned by "the International Bankers" as you keep intoning, but because he is apparently not reading the situation accurately. He keeps trying for consensus and cooperation with the Republicans, and he's just not going to get it. They WANT him to fail, so they will buck anything he tries to do, no matter how good it is for the country (and in a lot of cases, because it is good for the country).

What he needs to do is go in there and KICK BUTT! That's what FDR and "Give 'em Hell" Harry Truman did, and they got results!

Politics is hardball, and "Mr. Nice Guy" is going to have a rough go.

BUT—

I would a helluva lot rather have Obama in there than Rick Perry, Michele Bachman, or some of the other people who are crawling out of the woodwork. Dennis Kucinich has the intelligence to do the job, but he just doesn't have the charisma to get elected (tried a couple of times so far and didn't even get to first base). Obama ALSO has the intelligence, but the question at this point is, does he have the backbone to get tough? From what we've seen so far, apparently not.

By the way, GfS, since you don't like Obama, who do YOU want to see elected as President when Obama's first term is up?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 06:19 PM

Here's the question again, GfinS... Should the Fed be able to devalue (manipulate) our currency if it means that the US becomes more competitive and therefore able to hire more people??? Non flat-earth economists say, "yes"... Ricky Perry and the Koch brothers say "no"...

Seems you've busted on the Fed here and elsewhere...

This is a purdy straight forward question that deserves purdy much a yes or no and not a bunch of links and blogs and whatever ballgames you can come up with...

How about a simple yes or no???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:08 AM

((((((((((((((((The deafening sound of silence)))))))))))))))))

(Well, boberdz... Maybe she's actually trying to learn enough about what you are asking to put together an answer that isn't just another bumper sticker slogan... Did you ever think that???)

Gol danged, Anon, it's GfinS we're talking about here...)

(Point well taken...)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 01:07 PM

Nor has he/she/it come up with an answer to who he/she/it wants to see elected when Obama's first term is up.

Simple questions seem to stump him/her/it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:40 PM

The answer to this question Don is that the system is broken. No matter who gets elected, the corporations will be in control of government regardless of Democrats or Republicans.The handwriting in on the wall.

Elections also may be compromised as they were under Bush v. Gore.

I choose to elect the American people to stand up to America's new Oligarchy and reclaim democracy. I would love to see a Bernie Sanders elected (not possible given the autocracy of the Supreme Court and a deluded Congress). I think Kucinich is honest as well.

The J Curve illuminates this issue. One of the points that is important to this discussion is that when expectation and reality are in conflict, revolution occurs. A country's people can be likened to the frog in the boiling water. It if gets too hot fast, the frog jumps out. If it is a slow boil, the frog will get cooked. Think of what's happened to the U.S. in the last couple of decades. We are boiling to death.

"The x-axis of the political J-Curve graph measures the "openness" (of freedom) of the State in question, and the y-axis measures the stability of that same state. It suggests that those states that are 'closed'/undemocratic/unfree (such as the Communist dictatorships of China and Cuba) are very stable; however, as one progresses right, along the x-axis, it is evident that stability (for relatively short period of time in the lengthy life of nations) decreases, creating a dip in the graph, until beginning to pick up again as the 'openness' of a state increases; at the other end of the graph to closed states are the open states of the West, such as the United States of America or the United Kingdom. Thus, a J-shaped curve is formed.
States can travel both forward (right) and backwards (left) along this J-curve, and so stability and openness are never secure. The J is steeper on the left hand side, as it is easier for a leader in a failed state to create stability by closing the country than to build a civil society and establish accountable institutions; the curve is higher on the far right than left because states that prevail in opening their societies (Eastern Europe, for example) ultimately become more stable than authoritarian regimes.
Bremmer's entire curve can shift up or down depending on economic resources available to the government in question. Therefore, Saudi Arabia's relative stability at every point along the curve rises or falls depending on the price of oil; China's curve, meanwhile, analogously depends on the country's economic growth."

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 02:22 AM

Well, I just got back from the long week-end. some of us Catters even do gigs, and have to travel to do so, so I was not around to answer the question, on who I would think would be a favorable candidate.
OK, first I thought of only the people out there, at present, and there are two that I think are HONEST...and honesty with the American people would be as a breath of fresh air. whether I'd agree with everything about them, I can't say(but who ever can). One of them, who I like has a voting record that history has shown that he was one the correct side, even though he pushed against his party's general rep, but he did vote against going to war, the way we did.(actually both did). ..BUT he did a last minute shift on Obama care after pressure of some kind was applied to him. The other voted against it. Both of them have been outspoken critics of their mainstream party...that's good, too. I think if they ran on a ticket together, which NO ONE would expect, might have more of a unifying effect, than mere rhetoric about 'reaching across the aisle'(just to punch out someone in the 'other' party!) BOTH have a similar message, and BOTH the news media attempts to muzzle during their respective party's debates....so I'm going to say a 'ticket' of these two. Your first re-action may be to gag, but if you think it through, you might see why this would be a possible good ticket for America, rather than an agenda, to impose on America. Either a Kucinich/Paul ticket or Paul Kucinich ticket....as long as they could agree on honesty over ideologies, and statesmanship over politics! Both have the 'charisma' issues, but I don't think America needs another media made 'celebrity apprentice'!!!

Just a thought...and for God's sakes, get rid of that jive-time bull-shitter, that we have now.

Just think it through....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 03:23 PM

Ron Paul, the "intellectual god-father of the Tea Party movement?"

No. No, no. No. A thousand times No. Negatory. Did you get that? No.

Kucinich? Yes, I think he'd make a very good president. But he's already taken a couple of runs at the job and has pretty well established that without some sort of Divine Intervention (and I just ain't that religious!), it's not about to happen.

And ". . . get rid of that jive-time bull-shitter, that we have now."

If that isn't a blatant piece of racist bigotry, then the Ku Klux Klan has got to be a subchapter of the NAACP.

Jayzuz, GfS!!   You ARE a piece of work!!

And besides, Obama might just suprise you. Hell, if Obama could raise the dead, heal the sick, walk on water, balance the budget and create full employment with just a wave of his hand, there are those--such as yourself--who would STILL hate his guts. For obvious, but shameful, reasons.

Don Firth

P. S. Besides, GfS, Kucinich is a Democrat and Paul is a Republican. The two of them on the same ticket? That'll happen when the start having ice hockey games in Hades. I'd have thought you knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 06:19 PM

Don: "And ". . . get rid of that jive-time bull-shitter, that we have now."
If that isn't a blatant piece of racist bigotry, then the Ku Klux Klan has got to be a subchapter of the NAACP."

Horseshit!! Calling Obama a shitty President has NOTHING to do with race, as far as I am concerned. He's just been a crappy President. Even YOU said you were disappointed in him!

As far as Ron Paul being the 'Intellectual God Father of the Tea Party' that is nonsense! he had the same message LONG before the Tea Party. Both he, and Dennis Kucinich have been consistent, with pretty much the same line...and at least they've been honest. Kucinich dinged his integrity a little giving into the Obama pressure, to vote FOR something he said h was opposed too....that all being said, I said, that it would be and interesting ticket..but BOTH would have to run together...which I know is not likely to ever happen...and I also prefaced my post, acknowledging 'f all the names out there'. Paul's message was BEFORE the Koch's infusion, but like I've said several times, 'movements' whether 'peace' movements, or whatever. that are valid, seem to get co-opted by either a party of some high dollar agenda driven fat cat!

These two, AT LEAST, have their VOTING record, consistent with their rhetoric 'record'....and that would be refreshing, in light of what we have now!

...and by the way, knock off the 'bigot and racist' blather. It's rather immature.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 07:05 PM

Paul is the Lyndon LaRouche of the Republican Party... He has major internal conflicts about how this country should be governed... He has called for an end to income taxes... If that were to happen we would become a failed state almost instantly... He is for absolutely no federal regulations on anything... A Paul presidency would take this nation to the doorstep of "Mad Max After the Thunderdome"...

BTW, GfinS, you haven't answered my question on the Fed...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 08:07 PM

Maybe we should not elect a president, solely on what we THINK his agenda is. Maybe electing one on his character might be a better idea.
...and if you read CAREFULLY, I said as a ticket...as in BALANCED ticket...besides, I'm pretty tired of having used car salesmen tell me how they are so much into 'bi-partisanship'..I'd rather SEE it...as long as its purpose is NOT to strip away our liberty and freedom, for a half cocked agenda!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 08:54 PM

So, GfinS... All your dissing the Fed was just Tea Party BS that you had ingested and put out there as if the Fed is the problem but now you don't want to talk about the real world and real policies...

Ah huh... I get it...

BTW, I loved the music link but you are just blowing smoke with posts like the last one which say, ahhhh, absolutely nothing... It all comes down to policies and not how messed up you think this or that is... It's all about policies... This ain't used car salesman stuff... Your posts are used car salesman's stuff... You try to find this middle ground of the disgruntled... Every thing happens for a reason... Policies. policies, policies...

What do you believe in other than everything is messed up... That's become a boring as your "Both Sides Blues"... You need to get beyond the generic BS grumbling...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Sep 11 - 10:54 PM

Don: "And ". . . get rid of that jive-time bull-shitter, that we have now."
If that isn't a blatant piece of racist bigotry, then the Ku Klux Klan has got to be a subchapter of the NAACP."

Horseshit!! Calling Obama a shitty President has NOTHING to do with race, as far as I am concerned. He's just been a crappy President. Even YOU said you were disappointed in him!

As far as Ron Paul being the 'Intellectual God Father of the Tea Party' that is nonsense! he had the same message LONG before the Tea Party.

####

It's the way you phrased it, GfS. I've heard variations on "jive" this and "jive" that clearly indicate a racial remark when the person doesn't have the guts to use the N-word, but wants to convey that that is exactly what he or she means.

And just because I'm not totally impressed with Obama's presidency so far, that doesn't mean I've given up on him. Don't put your words in my mouth. PTUI!!

That Ron Paul is the "Intellectual Godfather of the Tea Party" is not my phrase. I've heard a number of commentators refer to him as that. Including a couple of moderate Republicans. He's pretty well indicated that he's into Ayn Rand, as are a couple of other declared candidates from the Right.

And as far as the "bigot and racist blather" is concerned, I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 03:57 AM

'Jive' may have had it's roots in American black culture, but musicians use it all the time.
As far as Obama is concerned, I think he is a bunch of 'jive-time' bullshit, and have, since the primaries. Remember I used to call him 'Oblabbo'?..and only gullible fools fall for his brand of BS!
Now understand, I'm not promoting Paul, any more than Kucinich...but when you go through the list of names out there, talking about running, both of them have bucked the parties they are registered as...and for the right reasons. Who else is there??..Perry? Who I posted before he even announced, that he was going to run, and rise quickly, due to his backers, who, BTW, are the same clowns backing Romney and Obama. Palin?...Naw, I don't think so....Romney?...maybe for the ADA spokesman....Huntsman?..Not a popcorn's fart of a chance. Hilary?...Shit, she knows whats coming down, I don't think you could give her the job, and the blame for it! Who else?..Now the likely hood of a Kucinich/Paul ticket is so far fetched..well, it would never happen. But if it did, I'd take a hard look at it...just because both these guys had courage to go against the popular fads of their parties...both had their message when it was 'unfashionable', both held onto their positions(except for Kucinich, as I mentioned before)....both of them are similar in their own way...and agree with each other is places that time has proven them right. Kucinich won't get nominated in place of Obama, and Paul is getting snubbed by the globalist owned 'news' media...so, actually it's not even anything to get thy knickers in a twist about, now is it? Both, you might note, have spoken against and confronted the globalist banker agendas. Obama is one of them!..well, more accurately put, their lackey...and if you want socialism, do you mean a globalist banker run socialism???
that's just another form of totalitarian, freedom-less slavery!..which we are moving toward, by design, while this administrations smooth talking lies, are attempting to pacify those who would normally vehemently oppose that..including you, Bobert, and me...I would think.
.........................................

Bobert: "So, GfinS... All your dissing the Fed was just Tea Party BS that you had ingested and put out there as if the Fed is the problem but now you don't want to talk about the real world and real policies..."

JFK was also opposed to the Fed, and correctly so. It had its opposition LO-O-O-NG before the Tea Party..so that part of you post is silly...and extremely erroneous!....
...then I read the last part of your post, to comment on it, and it is just plain ridiculous..BUT, I'm glad you liked the music links! She's pretty good!..sorta a bit of Janis Joplin/Bonnie Raitt. There was another piece called 'Judgement Day' where the band has a killer harp player. I was going to post it, but, I didn't want to post another post..but if you want, I'll put it up...(It was a live recording from a Fox studio, in the south. They smoked it!! If you liked her, she is presently in rotation, on PBS,'s 'Austin City Limits'. That had more stuff than on Youtube, and also some of the same clips. Its well worth the viewing! Did you notice she is sorta finger picking those licks? Nice work! Also, here small interview was really cool!

Anyway, stay silly!...it keeps you from practicing your chops!(wink).

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 04:09 AM

Bobert, Here this is one of them
I think there is another one, that I mentioned before (Fox in Louisiana, I think), but i couldn't find it again.
Oh well...enjoy!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 09:11 AM

International monetary policy was a lot simpler back then GfinS... Now, it's right at the cut-throat stage... It is very irresponsible to think we don't have to play with the big boys using big boy tactics... That's what the Fed is about... I mean, if you don't want America to be competitive then, sure, do away with the Fed and we will soon see our trade imbalances double... Rick Perry doesn't want to see *US* devalue out currency for no other reason than it will create more American jobs and anything that creates more American jobs cuts into Republican chances in the 2012 election... If he were president now he's be all over the Fed chairman to do what is is angrily preaching is wrong... This is sound monetary policy... Heck, if China can manipulate it's currency to take our jobs why should we handcuff our own government from doing the same???

Will you answer that question in your own words???

As for "Judgement Day", I thing Rory Block's version is stronger but, as I said last night, this gal can flat out play the blues...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 04:06 PM

So, Don, are you willing to say that the White House Spokesman is a racist?



Don: "And ". . . get rid of that jive-time bull-shitter, that we have now."
If that isn't a blatant piece of racist bigotry, then the Ku Klux Klan has got to be a subchapter of the NAACP."


"
White House press secretary Jay Carney at the beginning of his Wednesday briefing reacts after bringing out the wrong notebook: "Sorry. I'm going to shuck and jive! Time to shuck and jive.""

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/07/carney_im_going_to_shuck_and_jive.html

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 05:41 PM

Jive, you know jive, as in Jive-time!!! !!!

It goes beyond politics......

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 06:04 PM

"Sorry. I'm going to shuck and jive! Time to shuck and jive."

I guess maybe he is racist, GfS. Or at least, tasteless. I've never heard "shuckin' and jivin'" as anything but in relation to slurs against African-Americans.

And I haven't exactly been living in a cave all this time, either! I AM quite familiar with the term "jive" in relation to a particular genre of music.

When you're backed into a corner there, you tap-dance pretty well, GfS. Almost as fancy as Fred Astaire.

By the way, are you capable of making a critical comment about a politician (or anyone else for that matter) without resorting to childishly insulting epithets like "Oblabbo?" That's really the sign of a pretty immature mind.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 06:56 PM

BB!!!!!!

Man, I have missed you!!!

Seriously...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 07:20 PM

As to White House press secretary Jay Carney, stuck for something to say at that point, he lapsed into a bit of tastelessness. Lord only knows what was going on in his head at that moment, if anything.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 09:09 PM

Well, I don't rightly know what you meant by being in a corner...I never thought that I was in one......its ALL wide open..as long as one focuses on music, that is, IF you are really a musician! I think during the '60's when the freaks got derailed, and co-opted by the politicos, they wrote a lot of political 'protesty' shit, because they were not very creative in the first place, and politics provided an easy topic, and was trendy. Most of them didn't have shit to say, other than impressing themselves...(with stoned drawl: "Wow man, I learned a new chord today....I think I'll write a new protest anthem, to change the world!"). What a bunch of lazy ninnies!..Instead of CREATING, they got enough recognition to kid themselves that they were hotter than they were.....and now, look what they've turned into...a bunch of half witted politicos, with an ax!...and STILL not going anywhere with it!!!!
Besides, I was never much of a great dancer..I move better with an instrument in my hand, than trying to be sociable!..Now I can make them get up and dance, sweat, buy more beer, tell lies to get laid,...or make 'em weep! Both have their place. As of more recently, I prefer performing concert venues, and looking up to see people wiping tears away...that way, you know you caused them to feel, and reflect, and think.

Wait a minute, you thought you had me on the ropes???..Not even close. I figured you'd do what you always do....but most people on here are to polite to tell you how you're really doing!

Wink!..and a one, and a two, and a.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 09:30 PM

Listen, GfinS... You own the corner... I mean, with your BS you just go from one corner to the next... You have the market cornered on corners... lol...

But, sheet fire, you can find some fine music out there on the web so I'd suggest that you stick with music since you don't know squat about squat about economics or history...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:09 PM

Oh nonsense, Bobbie, you asked two different questions and the questions showed YOUR lack of understanding. One time you asked, what is wrong with countries manipulating the currencies, and the next time you asked what was wrong with the 'Fed' manipulating currencies. the 'Fed' is made up of private banks, and is not formally part of our government. So, the answer to your question(s), has two different answers. I just didn't spell it out for you so clearly, before...but you knew that didn't you?..(clears throat).
However, my bitch was with a PRIVATE BANKING concern using Borrowed tax payer money, as 'collateral', while charging the taxpayers interest, and doing so, without oversight, nor the people being able to grant them permission, by due process of Constitutional law....(sorta like going to war, without going to Congress first....but what do I know?

Ans I DO pay attention, that's why I posted the links on YOUR birthday, because she plays similar to an old link I saw of you playing. I thought that would flip your switch...and she really is HOT!...and just think, you saw it here FIRST, on the Ol' Mudcat Forum!
..AND she was on FOX news...and was better news than ANY of the politically based stories with 'commentary'.
I keep telling you guys..........MUSIC!!!!! Let the audience tell you if you've got something so say, that speaks to them!! Fuck this hung over politico/activist/musician/singer/songwriter/statement/parody of yourself stuff, ...especially if you ain't got shit to say!!!!
For a little moment, her performance made politics BORING..because ..well, it is. Do you really want to keep track of all the lies these corrupt fucks let fall out of their mouths?????
THEY should be so lucky, to have us even WANT to listen to them!
They just have to do better than the crap they're foisting on the American public, because in reality, we could kick their asses!

Hope you got the other link, with the harp player, or you wouldn't have 'gotten' what I just said!

Regards, you ol' coot!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 11 - 10:24 PM

Well, seems you got the gear shift crammed into reverse on the Feds, GfinS... The Fed do what they gotta do... You can love 'um or hate 'um but they have been purdy consistent over the years... BTW, you never answered the question but I know you don't understand the question but...

... I know that and that explains some of yer answers (non-answers)...

Next: Music... Yeah, music transcends all the the other stuff... Lee Atwater was an ass but he played a mean guitar... Some things don't make sense to me... Right winged knotheads being able to play music is one of them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 12:20 AM

Bobert, The Federal Reserve is as much 'Federal' as 'Federal Express'. They are a 'group' of PRIVATE BANKERS(this is the simple version), who set our monetary policies, 'lends' us money that they print, charge us interest and sees that our taxes pay for their 'services and interests'. If they turn a profit, from their banking escapades throughout the world, especially with the IMF or World Bank, there is NO oversight, including that the taxpayers are even paid back! Basically they take our tax dollars, use it for their PRIVATE ventures, raise our taxes to accommodate the debt,(about 40 cents on every dollar), have the IRS at their disposal, and 'invest' globally, independent from ANY governmental scrutiny, STONEWALL when being grilled by Congress(as you saw), and refuse to say where the TRILLIONS went, or went for! If it came to throwing America under the bus, they would do it, and are doing it, and move operations elsewhere! This is where the 'stimulus' money went, the bailout money went, and why our entitlement programs(which is of interest to Democrats), are 'under funded'. Their 'bill' to the American taxpayer, is more that our defense spending, social security, medicare, etc etc..They are our biggest 'money suck'! ..and their corruption of our Constitutional Government is legendary! They OWN most of our 'politicians'...and the media that promotes the candidates. If they are the ones manipulating our currencies for their advantage, and our disadvantage, using the 'debt' of the interest, as leverage, to do what the fuck they want, WITHOUT oversight, and/or regulation, and are not accountable through elections, or any law...well, shit.........its not exactly like 'just a government' manipulating the economy, either foreign or domestic, it is these slime-balls. If they make an agreement to 'loan' money to a foreign country, with a contingency of shipping our jobs over with it, then it gets written into the 'law'. Just ask anyone at Gibson Guitar! In other words, they don't give a rat's ass about US, who are funding them, and will drill our economy dry, without blinking!..Just take a look around you..listen to the news...this economic mess, was/is their doing...for them, not for enriching the country!!!! Just 'Google' some shit on them...it's all over the place. Timmy 'Tax Cheat' Geithner is their boy, Paulsen, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Perry, Romney, Kissinger, Rockefeller, Carter, Ford and on and on...both parties, and our elections are a farce! They put up their guys on both sides, and alternate 'power bases', but for their agendas. Bush got too far 'left' Obama, too far 'right'...but their beat just goes on, without any control from, or accountability to us little peons! Look it up!...pretty soon, you might start sounding like me!!!!..(Maybe not musically, though)...(wink).

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 02:46 AM

In six minutes you have the situation explained here, in a cartoon à part de ça.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:32 AM

And the Republican River Of Bullshit flows relentlessly on towards the sea....

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 10:43 AM

Okay, GfinS.... I now fully understand that you are doing the best with the knowledge base that you have about economics so I really shouldn't expect anything more of you... You really wold benefit from an economics course at the local community college... I mean, you really are clueless about this stuff... No disrespect intended... It's just who you are... My bad for thinking that you understood basic economics...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 05:01 PM

So James Hoffa says (approximate quote)"Each of us has a vote, and we can take out the tea partiers" The implication isn't at all ambiguous: "take out" meana "vote out". The tea party - the "second amendment solutions" and graphics-with-gunsights party - screams for an apology from him for inciting violence against them. Welcome to the twilight zone.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 05:25 PM

Thanks Bruce for clearing that up!!! ...nice to see you again!

Kudos to 'Guest, 999', for your very easy to understand post! I watched it and found this one not too far from it!.... Bailouts
Think 'they'll' get it????

Now look at this:
Bobert: "Okay, GfinS.... I now fully understand that you are doing the best with the knowledge base that you have about economics so I really shouldn't expect anything more of you... You really wold benefit from an economics course at the local community college... I mean, you really are clueless about this stuff... No disrespect intended... It's just who you are... My bad for thinking that you understood basic economics..."

OKAY, so assault my character, insult me...do ANYTHING you want, but you can't present any facts salient to your position!..and your 'catty' remarks is all you got!...NOT very convincing...AT ALL!...but that's OK....you're a blues player......(wink).

Don: "....By the way, are you capable of making a critical comment about a politician (or anyone else for that matter) without resorting to childishly insulting epithets like "Oblabbo?" That's really the sign of a pretty immature mind."

I said I used that expression during the elections, because I thought he was all talk. I was just reminding you, of how I felt about him at that time!......Oh, and by the way.......I was, and am right!!....but I don't call him that anymore.................................but I could!

AND, as far as your rap about a Kucinich/Paul ticket, how crazy it would be for a ticket of two parties..... Just for what it's worth .

Speaking of dancing, I thought about asking you if I could cut in...but you dance a pretty mean step yourself!...Go Don, Go!...Cut that rug!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 05:57 PM

My position has always been that we need the Fed... Without it we would have financial chaos and would not be in a position to compete... Your views have been Tea Partyish in trying to inflict your ideas of economics on real economists thru political pressure... Enough of that, just as in the debt ceiling debate, creates unstable markets and an unstable currency...

This isn't meant to be insulting, GfinS... It's just reality... But to people with very limited understanding about economics its like trying to explain something to a rock...

We are not talking about different opinions here based on two people with equal understandings of the situation... We're talking about two different opinions based on the opposite... I do not mean to sound arrogant or insulting... It's just that you have been given ample opportunity to justify some things you have said about the Fed and to date have not done that in the slightest... You have danced around the question like it was a radiation pit...

Just as Rick Perry, who BTW got a "D" in economics at Texas A & N... He also cannot explain his position on the Fed other than to say that other ignorant people in Texas won't take kindly to a treasonous Fed chairman for doing what Fed chairmen have always done...

I mean, just to say that Bernanke is some kind traitor because he might want to push a devaluation of the dollar is just proclamation based on absolutely nothing at all... Just noise...

Sorry if I hurt yer feelings but having this discussion with you has become an exercise in futility... You clearly have no idea what I am saying so I think I'll just quit trying to explain it to you...

Keep the good music coming, however...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 06:49 PM

Hurt my feelings????.....No, Bobert, my feelings get hurt only if I don't play a piece right, and I think it didn't convey the music right.

As to the other subject, this country has become addicted to credit, like a junkie to smack! Putting another needle in the arm, might temporarily relieve the 'pain' but it's not particularly good for the addict....We NEED to back down from a credit based economy! ANY solution is going to be painful...but if we don't we will enter a deeper depression, that will make the 'Great Depression' of the '30's look like a banquet!...and remember, the 'great depression' was a result of all that wonderful credit in the '20's!

So, may I suggest that, though all these programs could be in place, if it weren't for the 'debt' we owe to the Federal Reserve....for really doing NOTHING but channeling our GDP to their banking buddies/cronies, and hiding the fact under a ruse of political benevolence! They are only playing to the ill-informed....such as.............umm...........(clears throat again)..........um..............you!

GfS

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:25 PM

Yes, we both agree that we have become addicted to debt... We don't owe it to the Fed... We owe much of it to Treasury notes... Different entities... Tyhe Fed doesn't go out and borrow any money from China... The Fed isn't in debt at all... The Fed doesn't lend money to ordinary citizens...

I mean, you have correctly pointed out the problem but placing the blame in the wrong direction...

The reason that the "big thinkers" in the Tea Party hate the feds is because there are things it can do to cut the unemployment rate here in the US and the Tea Party has only two goals: Get the black guy out of their Whites Only House and two, create as much unemployment as possible to achieve Goal #1... Period...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 11:41 PM

Bobert: "Yes, we both agree that we have become addicted to debt... We don't owe it to the Fed... We owe much of it to Treasury notes... Different entities... Tyhe Fed doesn't go out and borrow any money from China... The Fed isn't in debt at all... The Fed doesn't lend money to ordinary citizens..."

This post is so out to lunch, where do I begin??....I'll try....

1. " We don't owe it to the Fed......."

A. We owe the Fed interest, of printing the money, with nothing to back it up, UNLESS the Fed sells it to a country or entity willing to buy the debt. Now we owe TWO people!..but they call in 'Lend'

B. You should have watched the links I provided, because I provided over a half a dozen links, of various members of Congress, asking the Top people of the Fed, and Timmy 'Tax Cheat' Geithner, Where did the money go, and which foreign country got the money. So now we owe the Fed the money for printing it, and 'lending' it to someone else, instead of having it go, to where it was intended, through a vote of the TWO HOUSES. Come on Bobert, are you sleeping when you post these?...or are you just NOT paying attention? 'Guest,999' posted a very easy to follow, animated, link, breaking it down for you. i posted another, from the same people. His was about the Fed, mine was about the Bailouts, BY THE FED!

2. ".......We owe much of it to Treasury notes..."

..That are sold through Goldman Sachs, to whom the Fed bails out.
Just click on the two links, it breaks it down for you...that is IF you're really interested.

3. "....The Fed isn't in debt at all... The Fed doesn't lend money to ordinary citizens..."

Of course they're not in debt..they're making money hand over fists, WE are in debt, and the nation is in a financial crisis, because of their practices, in conjunction with Goldman Sachs!

Actually, I can't fault you for getting 'lost in the woods' trying to understand it.....they used a lot of bribery, accounting tricks, stonewalling, and double-talk, to confuse even and ordinary blue player from Mudcat...plus threatening to crash the economy, if they have to be audited!

Shit, Bobs, my music links might be the ones you pay more attention to, and I have pretty good tastes, in not only the music, but in the OTHER links I post too!!
Somehow, because of 'political partisanship' indoctrination, you're missing the 'meat' of what's really going on.....so, in good keeping with posting relevant links, I'm going to post a MUSIC link equivalent to your level of politics. In other words, this link is to your taste in music, what your political bent is to what is really going on..... Music link equal to Bobert's taste in political depth and The short, version, equal to a political pitch, for more spending! ,which is VERY reminiscent of Obama's speech tonight, about the 'new' jobs bill, he is urging be passed, ASAP(17 times in the speech_ with all the urgency of the AIG bailout!

GfS

P.S. Gosh, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings...but somebody HAS to like you enough..............(wink)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:21 AM

Sorry to not have the time to mess with you, GfinS, but I'm headed to DC for the mini concert/workshop I'm giving tomorrow at Archie Edwards Blues Barbershop... Maybe Don will keep you entertained until I get back Tuesday???

Don???

Okay, maybe not...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 10:28 AM

Bobert, Break a leg!... and take all the great influences hopefully shown here, and knock 'em out!!...I'll send you some re-enforcement, via the 'Inter-Galactic Space Telephone!!'
Best Wishes on you gig!!!!

GfS

P.S. Try not to do any 'Go-Go' songs...or give political speeches!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 11:34 PM

Mudcat Forum Tag Team tactics.
Why not stop fighting, look at the facts, and call it for what it is. It's far less stupider! ...and you might LEARN something, and broaden your knowledge base, exchange ideas, and BOTH benefit! It's far superior than starting from a political view, and working your way down.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:08 PM

"It's far less stupider!" !!???!?

Better tighten your lug nuts before your wheels fall off, GfS. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:36 PM

Don: ".."It's far less stupider!" !!???!?

Better tighten your lug nuts before your wheels fall off, GfS. . . ."

Well, coming from you, your quote of my post, left out the context..which doesn't surprise me....

You left out: "Why not stop fighting, look at the facts, and call it for what it is. It's far less stupider!"

So I take it, from your post, you prefer to fight over topics, WITHOUT looking at the FACTS!!

Somehow, I knew it all along! It really was quite obvious, and have been called on it by several posters in the past.

Now you know that EVERYONE knows it!

Happy now?

Regards Just the Same,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:38 PM

Oh, I left out....."Busted, again!!"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 11:44 PM

You haven't a clue as to what you are talking about.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM

Well, after your last self-degrading post, I suppose you think you do. ..but really, give it up, you're running on empty....I'm being kind, OK?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 12:01 AM

GfS, if I missed the context (which I didn't. I did manage to puzzle out what you were attempting to say), it would have been because you expressed it so awkwardly. Rather than "more stupider," it would have been correct to say "even stupider." That conveys what you were groping for without making you appear illiterate.

No need to thank me.

Sorry, I don't have time to play right now. Guests.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 12:57 AM

[sigh]

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:12 AM

Joe, LOL!!!!! That was PERFECT!!

Well, after I got the post I got to work with, I thought 'stupider' was the perfect word!! Though that word is stupid!

Actually, that whole exchange was one of the funniest 'discussion/debate/polarized/etc etc,', to have graced Mudcat! It should make it to the 'OFFICIAL POLITICAL FORUMS OF THE WEB HALL OF FAME'!!

Great lyrical premise, for a fun song....!

And in reality, if Don and I ever sat face to face, we'd be in hysterics..........after we strangled each other first!

It could be a riot!

Well, I have to agree with Bobert...It's been a "New & Improved Thread..."

...(now watch, he'll get back, and find it not 'Democratic Party' enough, and argue!!!

Hope the Good Mood Makes It To YOU!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM

Poster is Don Firth.

---

The status of this thread:

'Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:31 AM

You must have listened to 'Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me' on NPR, today....
(one eye closed, wagging my forefinger a finger at you!)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:41 AM

LOL!!

"From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM

Poster is Don Firth. The status of this thread:

'Nuff said. "


.....Wait a minute!!...He forgot to say "UNCLE!!"

Shit, he was so rattled and flabbergasted, he forgot to sign in!!

Big Grin!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 10:00 AM

I can't imagine Don being flabbergasted (or even all a-twitter).

Now, work with me on this, GfS: There are two and ONLY two things about you that piss me off:

1) The insults from a few months back and for them you can kiss my--well, you know.

2) The second is your vapid, bland, jejune, tedious, inane, vacuous, insipid and wishy-washy use of that stupid fuckin' WINK.

Thank you for allowing me to be rid of that emotion. Please carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:21 PM

Oh, I use 'wink' instead of ;-) .. or ;-O ..which other people use a lot....
(I think that's how they make it...I just haven't done it that way....'wink' (Actually, I agree with you...I'm not really THAT fond of it myself!)......smirk!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:09 PM

The thread creep here has taken a route from New York to L.A. through the Arctic Circle.

The Tea Party are closer to Christian fundamentalists then they are to Ayn Randers.
They are reactionary religious radicals that the Koch Brothers were able to mobilize as just as Carl Rove did during the Bush years.

Ayn Rand would probably turn a lot of the T Partiers off as she was an avowed atheist. I think that Ron Paul would have a problem with this aspect of Ayn Rand.
Paul Ryan is much closer to Ayn Rand and is not a darling of the T Party as far as I can tell.

I think that Norquist and Ryan would not be above using the T Party to promulgate their agendas, though.

Rick Perry, with his association with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), a reactionary fundamentalist dominionist religious radical group (The American Taliban) is a natural head of the T Party. The Executioner-in-Chief of Texas makes it clear that the T Party supports his authoritarian killing solutions to crime as evinced by the biggest applause line in the evening of the GOP debates and it is to him that you have to look to understand for which view the T Party stands.

If the T Party controls the GOP congress, (which I believe it does) it is because the religious agenda of the Congress on the Republican side is clear, moral issues such as anti-choice, birtherism, and that old bug-a-boo from the so-called "good" book about the Sons of Ham run as a subterranean river in the Southern Baptist view.

Eric Cantor is probably pro-Israel (at least for Netanyahu). Boehner sits on a time bomb with the T Party as the crazies attempt to take over the asylum.

They will back Perry, not Romney. Wall Street, however might back Romney much to the chagrin of the T Party, Perry being the loose cannon.

I'll put money on Wall Street over the T Party, though, in spite of the Koch Brothers who would switch their allegiance at the drop of a bottom line, and side with a Romney/Wall Street alliance.

Obama has a better chance against Perry than Romney. I don't think that Huntsman is dead yet.

To solve the problem of the deficit, look past the Republican bullshit and ask where are your tax dollars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan?

The oil and gas companies make a lot of tax-free money in wars.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 02:10 PM

Cleaned out a bunch of accumulated junk on my computer, including an accumulation of tracking cookies, and apparently dumped the cookies I wanted to keep as well. Sorry about that.

####

No "uncle" here, GfS.

The Tea Party (which is the subject of this thread, remember?) represents the less educated segment of the extreme Right Wing of the Republican Party. But the philosophical base (and all political movements have a philosophical base, whether the proponents are willing to acknowledge it or not) of the puppet masters of the Tea Party is, basically, a weird mix of Christian Fundamentalism and Ayn Rand's "Objectivism."

Strings, I think the political philosophy of Ayn Rand is being extracted from her works and her views of religion conveniently ignored. Despite Rand's professed atheism, her beliefs are a dead ringer for the Calvinist contention that the rich are rich because God favors them. How do we know God favors them? Obvious! God has made them rich. The Tea Partiers like that. (But somehow, I don't really think Jesus would have condoned this tenet.)

But this religious belief does have a secular cousin. Perhaps, especially in Rand's case (and for the benefit of the less religious Tea Partiers), it would be better to liken her view to "Social Darwinism:"   "Poverty is a means of weeding out the unfit, thereby improving the gene pool."

Ayn Rand (and in my more naïve days, I read a lot of her stuff—before I saw some to the real world and grew up!) was unalterably opposed to any kind of government regulation whatsoever on business or business practices. Although she vociferously denied any homage or relationship to the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzche, Rand's "John Galt" was her particular version of the "Űbermensche," or "Superman."

No, GfS, not the guy with the red cape and the blue tights. The "Superman" that Adolf Hitler was talking about, who was beyond the law and beyond morality.

There is many a corporation owner, president, CEO, manager, or major stockholder who is quite fond of this concept and is willing to donate vast amounts of money to (bribe) those politicians who will work hard for deregulation, and making Free Enterprise totally free to do whatever it wishes, and to hell with who gets ground under the wheels of the juggernaut.

Corporate Feudalism.

The Republicans are playing a dangerous game by not repudiating the Tea Party. This Right Wing of the Right Wing, rendered even more ignorant by Rupert Murdoch's disinformation machines like Fox News, and people like Rush Limbaugh and others, may just wind up taking over the whole Republican Party.

Something very much like this happened in the 1930s in Germany.

So, to those who persist in rattling on about the peccadilloes of the World Bank and blaming all the troubles of the world on someone named "Oblabbo," and making snotty and offensive remarks about those who don't stand in awe of their litany of platitudes, mere noise may generate heat, but does not shed much light on the situation.

The old saying, "Those who won't learn from history are doomed to repeat it," is quite relevant. To those who would accuse me of "living in the past:"    No, I'm not. But I know enough about it not to want to see it happen all over again.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 08:27 PM

I'm NOT a Rick Perry fan. As I posted before he even announced his candidacy, he is primarily the candidate being promoted by the 'Bilderbergers ' ..NO GOOD!....All the other stuff about who he represents here, whether it be Christian fundamentalists, or the Tea Party, or even Texas, is a bunch of 'plastic posturing'....and Romney is just another 'wishy washy' puppet, of the same clowns that brought us "Shovel Ready Barry"
I'd prefer Ron Paul OVER Paul Ryan..only because Paul Ryan would be more beholden to the Kochs, than Ron Paul...but then I'd prefer Kucinich over the shovel ready bullshitter... now he's peddling his crap again, but he steers far away from the term 'stimulus'..because he fears that we already know, that was a hunk of fresh fecal matter!
(well, at least for the simple minded groupies).

Actually, I can't say, for sure who I like out there, yet. Everybody I lean toward ain't a front running name.

Don: "No, GfS, not the guy with the red cape and the blue tights. The "Superman" that Adolf Hitler was talking about, who was beyond the law and beyond morality."

I know who he is.

Don: "The old saying, "Those who won't learn from history are doomed to repeat it," is quite relevant. To those who would accuse me of "living in the past:"    No, I'm not. But I know enough about it not to want to see it happen all over again."

I don't think I said that you were living in the past....I didn't think you could remember that far back...(smirk).....AND, just teasing!

These are TWO things that we, as we get older tend to forget, One is.....umm.....let me see............ummm..........and....a.....hmm..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 08:55 PM

You'd be surprised what I can remember, GfS. . . .

I just looked up the bills that Ron Paul has sponsored. You say you favor Ron Paul?

And you're not a raving Right Wing conservative?

Sorry, GfS, but you can't have it both ways.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 09:01 PM

Or if Ron Paul is not your first choice, you still prefer him to Obama?

Like I said, you can't have it both ways.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 09:42 PM

Ron Paul = No income taxes???

How you gonna finance anything, GfinS??? Regressive sales taxes... Regressive value added taxes??? Regressive lotteries??? Privatization??? Sell the Washington Monument??? Sell the gold in Fort Knox???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:21 PM

No income tax..now that's a stretch.

Hey, How did your gig go?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:28 PM

Stretch? I don't think so.

From his own web site.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 12:04 AM

There still would be taxes....but if you would have READ the link you gave me, you might have seen this(which is true):Speaking of 'all those programs the government funds)...

"Uh, don't you realize that income tax was instituted about the same time they instituted the fed? The fed charges us interest on the money they make.

Income tax does NOT go to any of the things you mentioned, it all goes to the fed to pay our interest on the fiat money."

Like we need fiat money? It's a scam deluxe!

Gfs

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 12:19 AM

That's what HE says. But. . . .

You really need to check up on these guys, GfS. You can't just take Bill O'Reilly's word for it.

Over and out for now. Been a busy day. Gonna hit the sack early.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 09:32 AM

Gig went extremely well, GfinS... Well attended and well received...

As for Paul??? Yeah, he's right on the wars and he's right on marijuana but he's wrong on everything else which tend to be Lyndon LaRouche-ish...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 12:54 PM

I think a lot of this, and the Tea Party's momentum, has been because of a backlash to abuses of the Fed promoting programs that they can 'lend' money for. It's not that the programs themselves that were bad, or at fault, but by the time taxes are raised, for those programs, the skimming, from the Fed on down, makes it detrimental, and doing more harm, than funding the actual program itself!..Now we have a backlash, and justifiably so. The problem is, the political 'right' tends to blame the program, and the 'left' blames the 'right' for being 'anti-entitlement for the needy'....when if they just stopped long enough to think it through, and stopped playing politics, they would soon see that the problem lies with the funding, and what it costs, just to get it done.

Case in point, Obama wants another stimulus program with the 'Jobs Bill'. He wants it passed BEFORE it is clear about the funding, which will require yet, another bill. He's presently hyping that 'it will all be paid for', and will leave in place the payroll tax cuts, and go after the 'rich'(small business owners). Bottom line, is that this is exactly the same song and dance crap that has been crashing the economy, but with a different spin.
On the 'other' side of the coin, we have calls to get rid of the Fed, and IRS, with the logic that 'all this money' will be freed up, and help bolster the economy.
Personally, I don't think EITHER of these extremes are workable, just in the fact that they are extremes.....and when presented to the 'other' party, which ever perceives it, it looks too extreme!
As I've said over and over again, a closer adherence to the Constitution, and clean up the corruption, within our parties, both of them, should solve most of the problem. It ain't going to happen.
Goldman Sachs, the Fed, the politicians from both sides have drained or resources, for their own greed, and short sighted goal of 'get it now, get it quick, before it's all gone'. ....The problem is, that what a lot of people can't 'get', (especially on the 'left'), is that it's been 'all gone' for a long time now!! We're just running on fumes, and making up 'repayment plans', and 'recovery rumors'.
These elitist assholes, from BOTH sides, have scuttled the ship of the Union, and stole the lifeboats....and I don't think it is possible to argue or debate that issue, from a partisan point of view.
Sorry.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 01:47 PM

GfS: None of this is news to me. May I suggest you take a look at a google of

D.L. Cuddy: Chronological History of the New World Order

That wasn't news to me either. I expect maybe it won't be for you, either. Some people will talk about tin-foil hats, etc. Screw 'em. It's real and it's as much now as it has been all our lives. Just the facts jack, just the facts.

It is foolish to be drawn into "Oh, you are a conspiracy nut" or words to that effect, imo. Me, yes I do believe what I read there--not so with most of what have been labelled conspiracy sites. The unfortunate part is I ain't nuts, and those facts speak loudly for themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:10 PM

ProLifers in action here:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/audience-tea-party-debate-cheers-leaving-unin

Jesus is puking right now.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:19 PM

"New World Order" is an expression that was used a great deal in speeches by Adolf Hitler, and because of it—and a plethora of essentially baseless conspiracy theories that have their roots in pure paranoia—when any talk of a "world government" comes up, the knee-jerk reaction of a lot of people is to assume that this means the world being run by a cabal of greedy, power-hungry villains who are out to subjugate and exploit the entire world for their own selfish gain.

The League of Nations, essentially a genuine attempt to end such massive conflicts as World War I, was opposed right from the start, partly by fear of something like a world dictatorship, but largely by those who did not want to give up an inch of autonomy—particularly the freedom to dominate and exploit other nations and groups whenever they felt so inclined.   The same with the formation of the United Nations after World War II.

Such an agency can—and has—done a great deal of good in the world. Who, after all, can object to a UN force stepping in when a local dictator begins wreaking ghastly atrocities on his own people?

Well, lots of people, apparently!

And no president, king, dictator, or pooh-bah wants to have something like the League of Nations or the United Nations—or the United Federation of Planets—step in when he has a fit of pique and wants to beat the crap out of a neighbor country.

A properly constituted world government could bring about that elusive goal that everyone says they want:   world peace. But it's fear of an improperly constituted governing agency that keeps it from happening, at least effectively.

But I find the idea that groups such as the Bilderberg group, the Illuminati, the Elders of the Protocols of Zion, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Masons, the Catholic Church, the Knights Templars, and alien creatures from the hollow interior of the earth are in control of our governments and our lives, making it easier to control us by spreading brain-softening drugs with fluoride in our water and spraying chemtrails from the sky, are actually any kind of genuine force in the world beyond giving the ill-informed, over-imaginative, and not-too-tightly-wrapped something to blame their own inadequacies on.

I'm a helluva lot more afraid of such things as Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and the Southern Baptist Leadership Conference!

Or Ron Paul (see TIA's link just above)!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:25 PM

Don, you get like this any time the subject comes up. Read the damned google page.

The term has been being used for a century. Even one of your presidents remarked about. The fact that the shit is happening right now does not take away from what YOU wish to speak about. To me, it is NOT a conspiracy; it's damned near a fait accompli, and you more than most should be able to see that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:41 PM

That Guest post was me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:45 PM

What, GfinS, it's perfectly okay for large corporations to game the system so that the largest shift of wealth from the working class to the rich in American history has occurred over the last5 30 years but not okay to shift any of that wealth back to the working class...

You and the Te3a Party are *************seriously************* confused about the goals and objectives of the folks who have spent hundreds of million$$$ in community organizers, advertising, offices, rallies, buses, etc. to dupe the ignorant to work against their own interests...

The funding, BTW, if you are keeping up with the what Obama is trying to get done is with the another stimulus is to be targeted at the gamers at the top... In other words, the folks who are sitting on between $2T and $3T and crying that they need more so ***they*** can create more jobs...

This is a crock of shit BIG ASS LIE on their party and on the part of their Tea Morons...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:02 PM

GfS: The Bilderbergers are a group whose philosophy I could get along with. Unfortunately, the one area of their machinations that does worry me is the relatively large number of multi-national business representatives who are involved. That is what bodes bad news, imo. Secret societies are secret societies. Hell, we don't hear what goes on behind Vatican walls and no one worries.

The Fed is not the problem as such. The real problem is banks and the unrestricted leeway they have when transacting their business--with OUR money. The Fed is relatively harmless by comparison with the bank down the street from you.

Note please that when we look at the Bush administration and see the tens of billions of dollars that were ripped off by friends of that administration, there are certain advantages to be gained by having the power to appoint people to the Federal Reserve directorship of 12(?) people. They tend to be friends or friends of friends. It's a tight little circle jerk and one that Americans should be ashamed of. I know you are an American who is. I applaud you for that. Now, wtf can we do to change it? (I don't expect you to have an answer, but it's good to dream.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:03 PM

Another waste of money, Bobert. Good call.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:36 PM

999, I did not say that Hitler was the first person to use the term. It was actually probably some pharaoh a few millennia ago.

If I "get like this any time the subject comes up," it's because I've heard this kind of thing since I was a kid. Now, I don't doubt that there are genuine conspiracies out there, but the fact is that there are so many different cabals conspiring to get a handle on this or that aspect of world control that no one of them has an upper hand.

And YES, I READ THE WHOLE BLEEDIN' THING!

999, I don't recall you ever getting this surly before.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM

Sorry, Don. I should know better. Here's the olive branch--now, take the fu#kin' thing or I'll swat you with it.

Yeah, it was surly (now that's a word ya don't hear much anymore) and I DO apologize.

Thing is, I don't buy into too many conspiracy things, but I grew up thinking this. I still do, and what I see in terms of economic events hasn't really changed my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 06:57 PM

No problem. I've got the olive branch tucked over my ears. Looks good. Sort of like a laurel wreath.

I don't doubt that there are powerful forces out there who would very much like to control everything. 'Twas ever thus. And, indeed, there are factions who wield a lot of power in a lot of places. But despite all the claims, I see no one person or cabal in possession of "The One Ring of Power" (if I may wax Tolkienesque for a moment).

Rather than the colossus of horror that most people try to make of the concept, there is much to be said for a world government, provided it is properly constituted (as in a "Constitution," which delineates what it's powers—what it can and cannot do).

I've recommended it on this forum before, a number of times, but I recommend it again to those who have not read it:   First Democracy : The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. From a review of the book:

For those who think they live in a democracy, Woodruff, a professor of philosophy at the University of Texas, Austin, argues that the ideal of "government by and for the people" was in some ways more closely attained over 2,000 years ago in Athens. Exploring that model of first democracy in depth, Woodruff plainly states its defects (e.g., the exclusion of women and slaves) and outlines its checkered history, while noting its striking features. Athenian democracy was not majority rule, with a disregard for the minority, nor did Athens have elected representatives who were beholden to special interests. Lotteries rather than elections were used to appoint magistrates and council members; juries were very large (and thus hard to bribe). The assembly was composed of the first 6,000 men to arrive on the hill.

The closing critique of the present-day American system ("Afterword: Are Americans Ready for Democracy?") and proposals for its democratization are bracing. Woodruff admires the democratic ideal "because it takes human imperfections into account better than any other ideal of government."

This book will make even jaded readers want to see more of that ideal in action.

The book is an easy read, and I recommend it highly to anyone who assumes he or she already knows what true democracy actually is. Most enlightening!

If Athenian-style democracy (with the imperfections that Woodruff noted fixed) were the basic principle upon which a World Government or "World Order" were founded, this would be a good thing. A very good thing indeed!!

Don Firth

P. S. Note:   One of the things that the Athenians did was to judge how well a political figure performed during his term of office. If he performed well, he could be honored and rewarded. But if he behaved like some of our political figures have behaved recently, he could be banished in disgrace. This judgment was rendered by a jury of 501 citizens, randomly selected by lottery. 501 so there would be no tie votes, and too large to bribe, even if those being judged knew ahead of time who they would be.

I like that idea!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:14 PM

Captain: "999, I did not say that Hitler was the first person to use the term. It was actually probably some pharaoh a few millennia ago..."

"..probably some pharaoh...."?????? You and your supposed probables!!

I can't believe I'm actually talking to the 'Academic', who buys into, your buddy's rap about the Tea Party's chief agenda was to get the black guy out of the White House, because they are merely bigots!

Do you believe that????

Gilligan: "You and the Tea Party are *************seriously************* confused about the goals and objectives of the folks who have spent hundreds of million$$$ in community organizers, advertising, offices, rallies, buses, etc. to dupe the ignorant to work against their own interests..."

Hey, wasn't Obama's claim to fame that of being a 'community organizer'??..which in his book, he even admitted his programs were a failure??
Some guys just never learn!!

Hey, do you really believe that the Tea Party's main agenda was against blacks?..and one being in the White House??

Waiting....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:32 PM

GfS: We are all gonna have rough edges from time to time. Allow me to attest to this: Don Firth is an honourable man, well-read and honest ALL the time. One of the pleasures of arguing with him is this: it's not about winning/losing with Don, it's about arriving at mutual understanding. Given the chance, you'll find him to be that way.

Sometimes in political debates/discussions (or religious discussions) it's very easy to lose sight of the debate's/discussion's purpose. Well, it's easy for me, anyway. I don't wanna turn this into a LHOTP or Walton's episode, but please reassess your position a bit. There has to be give and take.

And that's it from this mountain top somewhere in Tibet. Or British Columbia. Well, ok it's a hill in Quebec, but on a clear day you can see the Big Dipper when it's night, and one can think with one's eyes closed.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:38 PM

That guest post was me. If me arse weren't stapled to me 'ips I'd surely forget it somewhere.

And for the wiseguys out there, the letter with 'ips is an aitch, not an ell.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:39 PM

For those of us who worked in the civil rights movement we can see code talk from a thousand miles away...

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck its a duck...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:24 PM

Except when it walks like a duck in one post...then a turkey...then a chicken...then some crazy critter no one recognizes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:37 PM

Yeah, TIA...

Lotta CYA stuff going on here with the usual suspect...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 11:44 PM

So, at last night's Tea Party debate, someone (several people) shouted "Yeah (let him die)"....but it's not the Tea Party, it's just a few crazies.

At a Sarah Palin rally, someone (several people) shout "hang him (Obama)"... but it's not the Tea Party, it's just a few crazies.

At an Progressive rally, someone in the Tea Party opposition group (several people) are packing heat...but it's not the Tea Party, it's just a few crazies.

At Glenn Beck's Tea Party extravanganza on the National Mall, someone (several people) have signs saying "next time we bring guns", and someone else (several people) wave signs depicting Obama as in an 18th Century racist cartoon of an African with a bone in his nose (actually that's New Guinea, but we do not expect historical or cultural accuracy from the few crazies do we?)

Don't worry. That is not the Tea Party...it's just a few crazies.


Okay Tea Partiers, quick question: Is it actually the same few crazies at every rally all over the USA? The Tea Party isn't actually characteristically violent, ignorant, unknowingly un-christian, and racist are they? It's just a few crazies right?...right?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 11:46 PM

Just proving that the above is me...member for about 12 years. Security system wipes cookies every time I close Explorer.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM

Lotta babble, no answer. So, the question goes out, again...Bobert and Don, Do you think the main agenda to the Tea Party, is racist, and wanting, as Bobert said, "To get the black guy out of the White House?"
Simple question...Don't worry, I'm not a Tea Partier. I actually belong to the same party as George Washington.(Scroll down the page, to the chart, to see what party).
..and I'm NOT in the minority. New numbers out today, 65% of Americans disapprove of the way Obama is doing his job.
(Now watch, some brilliant, but biased person will say they don't put credibility in polls...let me save you the trouble...)

Don't forget the question.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:16 AM

TIA, try using Firefox. On their options, you can use a setting that either erases (or not), gets rid of cookies...same with 'History',(and a few other items). If you use it in 'safe mode' nothing is kept, nor tracked.
Just thought I'd help you, so you can use your little snide comments, and keep your cookie!

I guess their having a 'high level conference' to decide what they think....(Jeez)..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 08:36 AM

Depends on which part of the Tea Party you are asking about, GfinS...

Like I have pointed out there are two very different components of the Tea Party... There's the corporate end that funds it (Koch brothers, Dick Armey, Health Insurance Companies, FreedomWorks, etc) and then there is the brown-shirt component... The corporate component wants to go back to Reaganomics, except this time on crystal meth, and wants to pollute and poison and rip US off... The brownshirt are just the pawns/dupes/rednecks and yes, racists that the corporate component uses as fodder... These people are racist... These are the "crazies" that TIA is talking about about... These people's daddies and grand daddies were Klansmen...

Next question...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 08:53 AM

GfS:

Load THEN shoot, not the other way 'round.

TIA would be rather foolish were he intending to keep who he is hidden by the handle Guest,TIA when he uses the logged-in handle of TIA when he's not w/o a cookie.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 08:58 AM

I used the masculine 3rd person singular subject case of the pronoun because I have no idea if TIA is a he or she. fyi

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 09:04 AM

BTW, with the activist Republican Supreme Court ruling that corporations are people and they can spend as much money as they want, without disclosure, on campaigns and organizations these partisan judges are telling *US* that we don't even have a right to know who owns the Tea Party... I mean, if it were the Chinese we wouldn't have the right to know.... If it was al qeada, we wouldn't have the right to know... If it was Charles Manson, we wouldn't have the right to know...

This is about as messed up as things can be... Boss Hog and his Chinese counterparts sitting on Trillion$$$ in cash and being able to buy up large chunks of our government...

That, GfinS, may be okay in your book but I want to know who it is, foreign or domestic that is buying elections... BTW, the OBama folks are transparent... They'll tell you who their donors are...

Tea Party??? Who the hell knows all the players...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 01:25 PM

Now see, *that* is really funny and deeply ironic because calling my postings "little snide comments" is itself a snide little comment.
Well played m'Lord, well played....

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 03:22 PM

I also belong to the same party as George Washington. Doesn't tell you a helluva lot, does it?.

My answer to your question, GfS:   I think that high on the agenda of the Tea Party IS to get Barack Obama out of the White House and replace him with one of an assortment of Right Wing candidates, but so far there is no consensus as to which one, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, Ron Paul, the more conservative the better. Some even favor Sarah Palin despite her handicap (brain composed of oatmeal).

The fact that Obama is black (bi-racial, actually) IS the major factor with some. That's undeniable. To certain benighted members of the populace, especially those who would gravitate to a movement like the Tea Party, ANY "black blood" is sufficient to make one a "n****r." But to others, that's just a fringe benefit that would go with deposing him.

In my opinion, racism is not the main agenda of the Tea Party, but it IS a strong component with a large percentage of the party's members. But they would never admit it, except among themselves. Never to the media.

Their stated willingness to use violence if they don't get their way is a matter of considerable concern.

Question answered, GfS. Next subject?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 06:00 PM

Yer right, Don...

The folks who own and pull the Tea-levers don't much care if Obama is black, yellow or green... They want to pollute... They want to poison... They want not taxes... They want no rules... They want to have unfettered access to minimum wage labor... They are rich and they want more, more, more...

They use the Tea-Gallery as their foot soldiers, their cannon fodder, their dupes, their pawns and their brown shirts...

They don't give a shit about these people at all... They will steamroll these people into the pavement in a heartbeat...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 09:52 PM

Michele Bachmann in 2012.

The Mayans tried to warn us.

(From a bumper sticker.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: TIA
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 11:43 PM

Bingo.

The TRUE elites (and it ain't NPR) use their massive wealth to convince low information voters to vote diametrically against their own self interest. And THAT is the conspiracy that we need to be talking about.

With enough fear of Gays and Gun Control and the New World Order and brown people with funny headgear, Americans will willingly submit to absolute serfdom, and feel that they have won.

You just can't make this shit up.

Uninformed bickering about minutae relative to the Fed is a distraction that the ELITES have planted, and they are delighted that you bought it all. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....

I am already packing my bags in anticipation of 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 01:51 AM

999, the Mayan joke was the best laugh I've had all week....

The thought of a Bachmann presidency is scary, though. Click here for some inspiring Bachmann quotes.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 09:26 AM

The really scary thing about her is she thinks she has the answers but she doesn't understand the questions. Witness the link you provided. It amazes me that she can breath and sit simultaneously.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:19 AM

That's the problem with the US of A, brucie... It is now sufficiently dumbed down that way too many people will believe any BIG LIE you tell them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 05:15 PM

So I read your frantic bullshit, because things aren't lookin' too good for your Bozo President, and I found this!~

This is a response to Jack(JTS), about THREE years ago.
In comparison, some of you haven't got a clue, to even get a clue!


So,. I'm NOT inclined to be so easily persuaded by your rhetoric, because most of you don't know shit....as contrast to what I've said before...
...In other words, I'm right, you're wrong!

Waving,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 05:42 PM

For a group that claims to be Pro-Life, they seem real enthusiasic i about killing people, sending 'em to war, or just letting 'em die.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 05:48 PM

". . . your frantic bullshit . . . Bozo President . . . you don't know shit . . . I'm right, you're wrong!"

Brilliant debating! Pure logic! All points duly covered! Socrates would be impressed!

Don Firth (winky winky)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 06:38 PM

Wasn't winky winky a teletubby?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 07:19 PM

Nah, that was Tinky Winky. The others were Dipsy, La-La, and Po.

Tinky Winky was the one that Jerry Falwell claimed was gay, because he wore purple ("A gay color," according to Jerry) and he carried a "magic bag," which Jerry insisted was really a purse.

I think he also had some difficulty with Bert and Ernie's life-style.

I didn't realize, until Jerry enlightened the world, that children's television was such a hotbed of immorality! It's certainly a good thing that we have people like him around to make us aware of what a morass of sin we inhabit!

If enough Tea Party candidates get elected this time around, they will protect us from evils such as "Teletubbies," "Sesame Street," and, who knows, maybe even reruns of "Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 07:25 PM

The problem here is that the TeaPubs have come up with a strategy that fully appreciates just how stupid our general population has become: break every thing they can break...

The strategy is brilliant...

Yeah, they will mess the country up even worse than the Fall of '08 if that is what it takes...

The last time a president was so under attack by an opposing party was 1860 when the Southern Democrats left the Union...

This is out reality...

The Tea pubs push one lie after another to accomplish this knowing that stupid people will believe the BIG LIE...

Cancer vaccine don't work and make your kids retarded???

Global warming has nothing to do with mankind's activities???

Economists are quacks???

You name it and the TeaPubs are pushing a BIG LIE with one purpose: to screw up out country as much as they can... That is the strategy... Great strategy for politics... Piss poor for America...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 07:33 PM

By the way:   Falwell refuted!

Don Firth

P. S. Be sure to read the last line of the article.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 08:01 PM

Don, you never cease to amaze me. However, there is a problem. Lemme tell you about it. Years ago my youngest daughter loved the teletubbies, especially tinky winky. However, tw went missing. The crying scene was enough to break a guys heart, so I began looking. And looking. And looking. The tears were about to flood the kitchen, like that movie part from Disney's Alice in Wonderland. Then, EUREKA, I located tinky winky--IN THE CLOSET!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 08:18 PM

Sniff...

B;~(

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 09:31 PM

Well Don, for such an 'intellectual', you sure seem to know a lot about 'Teletubbies'. I never knew that...but I tend to stick to subjects that I know about...and I guess you should do the same.
Fact is, I WAS and am right, and called it before it happened...AGAIN, but you partisan idiots, tend not to look at the WHOLE picture!...So I give you something to meditate about...hope you don't choke.....your mantra........

Solyndra!...Pass this Bill!!!

As for Bobert, just the usual partisan nonsense.

Maybe some day, you might be right, too!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 09:48 PM

The thing you're not grasping, GfS, although by now it should be obvious even to you, is that I know EVERYTHING!!

I know that this puts you to shriek and to stamp on your hat, but do try to cope.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:08 PM

Don: "The thing you're not grasping, GfS, although by now it should be obvious even to you, is that I know EVERYTHING!!"

Who's your Daddy?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:13 PM

Okay, lets look at the Myth-Tealogy about Solyndra...

First, if the nihilistic Americans would care a little about their kids and grand kids then they would get behind "green technology" rather than doing the same thing their parent and grand parents did" burn what ever where ever...

But never mind that... Myth-Teaology has it that only 1100 people were employed with the $500B "loan"...

NOT TRUE...

Solyndra spent almost all of the $$$ on contractors and sub-contractors who hired tens of thousands of people, materials, transporting of material, engineers, architects, etc, etc... Those people went back in their communities an spent that $$$ which created even more jobs...

Reality is that the $$$ went into the economy... Not Boss Hog's pocket...

But heck with the truth... Truth ain't in these days... Myth-Teaolgy is... We are making decisions based on LIES...

No wonder we are slipping down in every category of what civilized nations use as a marker of where they stand against the competition...

Of course, GfinS will blow this off... Who cares any more about GfinS??? She is, after all, insane and not connected with the realities of our country... Just Myth-Teaology...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:19 PM

Bobert, you must be dizzy spinning so hard. What does any of this have to do with the Tea Party?
It's just another Obama fuck up, waiting for the scandalous truth to come out. It has more to do with corruption, that is does with the Tea Party....
..Oh, I forgot, the Democrats walk on water above corruption....LMAO!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:26 PM

I'm beginning to think that four years of a Teabagger president may be just what this country needs. (Or deserves...)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:35 PM

Ya' know what, micaelr.... I kinda agree with you so that all Americans, even the blind, will get it...

GfinS: still watching and making no sense... Normal...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:52 PM

Bobert: "GfinS: still watching and making no sense... Normal..."

Of course I don't make any sense to you....I see things how they really are....and have the documented, with dates, and times track record, ON HERE to prove it. You just have your hopes and your wishes, to try to turn into your reality. Jeez, "Wishing in one hand, and shittin' in the other..which do you think will fill up faster?"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 10:57 PM

'"Wishing in one hand, and shittin' in the other..which do you think will fill up faster?"'

That's a Zen kinda thing, right? Well, take the pebble from my hand . . .

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 11:10 PM

GfS, his name was Robert Firth. He was named after his father, who, in turn, was named after his father, who came from Scotland in 1851 with the Hudson's Bay Company. The family resemblance is unmistakable. I was named Donald, because I was not the first born, but it is a good Scottixh name.

Be careful when you visit your mother. She might run out from under the porch and bite you on the ankle.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 11:52 PM

Don: "GfS, his name was Robert Firth. He was named after his father, who, in turn, was named after his father, who came from Scotland in 1851 with the Hudson's Bay Company. The family resemblance is unmistakable. I was named Donald, because I was not the first born, but it is a good Scottixh name."

My condolences.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 12:00 AM

Oh..I forgot.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfitILXSqWg&feature=related
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 12:24 AM

Better get a tetanus shot for that, GfS.
At least my father wasn't gay!
Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 12:30 PM

Oh, by the way, being as you know 'EVERYTHING', what's the name, or number of that famous gene you've been touting about?

Meanwhile, you can chant, "Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! Solyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! Solyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! Solyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra!...Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! Solyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! olyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra! Solyndra! Pass that bill, now!...Solyndra!...!"....and everything will be alright!!

('It's hard to be humble'-Mac Davis).

Smiling,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 12:56 PM

Once again, GfS, you misrepresent what I said (in that other thread!). I—and several other well-read people—said that geneticists have said that it is very likely that sexual orientation is genetically determined rather than, as some claim, a matter of choice.   There are actual physical differences between the brain structure of homosexuals and hereosexuals.

There is nothing conclusive yet, but the indications, according to the most recent genetic research, is there. Whether you like it or not.

The subject of this thread is the Tea Party. If you want to reopen the discussion of sexual orientation, I suggest you take it to another thread.

The only genes I have ever named are Gene Rowley, whom I knew in college and Gene Windhorst, my wife's cousin's husband.

(By the way, "touting" would have been sufficient. "Touting about" tends to be redundant. I can recommend a very good book for you:   Elements of Style, by William Strunk, Jr. and E. B. White, usually known by competent writers as, simply, "Strunk and White." How to say what you intend without making yourself look like a jackass. No need to thank me.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 02:01 PM

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 15 Sep 11 - 05:15 PM

So I read your frantic bullshit, because things aren't lookin' too good for your Bozo President, and I found this!~

This is a response to Jack(JTS), about THREE years ago.
In comparison, some of you haven't got a clue, to even get a clue!


So,. I'm NOT inclined to be so easily persuaded by your rhetoric, because most of you don't know shit....as contrast to what I've said before...
...In other words, I'm right, you're wrong!

Waving,
GfS

I'm not sure what you are claiming to have been so correct about. Is it that things didn't turn around right away? I'm pretty sure you aren't the only one who thought that. In fact there was a part of me that would have liked to see McCain have to try to clean up the mess (a small part).

Whoever won in 2008 was going to have a rough ride.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 02:03 PM

Don: "The thing you're not grasping, GfS, although by now it should be obvious even to you, is that I know EVERYTHING!!"

Who's your Daddy?

GfS

By the way, GfS, who's your daddy?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 02:28 PM

Tsk tsk, KB!   GfS doesn't like to talk about that. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 03:28 PM

I know

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 03:29 PM

In fact, I probably shouldn't have, I just couldn't help myself.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 04:49 PM

KB, What I was talking about, in regards to 'being right', was all through this forum, I've said things that were accurate..even before they either happened, or were found out, and reported in the 'press'. My record is there....and I didn't like McCain, either.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 04:56 PM

Citations thereof?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 05:06 PM

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, right GfS?

(Unless it's a digital clock with no readout. In that case it isn't ever right, but I don't suppose it's really wrong either.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 07:01 PM

It's sort of like Jean Dixon or a lot of other prognosticators. She'd make a batch of predictions for the coming year and people would be amazed that much of what she predicted actually came true.

Things like—there will be a major earthquake; there will be a tragic plane crash; there will be a political scandal; a famous person will pass away…..    You get the idea. It's a rare year when at least some of these things don't happen, so she can't help but get pretty good percentages.

But the more specific the prognosticator gets, the lower the accuracy.

Can you cite some instances where you were actually right, GfS?   Now's your chance to dazzle us!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 07:14 PM

First of all, lets deal with the latest GfinS Myth-Teaology, Solyndra...

The Myth-Teaology is that only 1,100 jobs were created or saved by the "loan"...

That is an absolute BIG LIE...

Solyndra used the money to build a new plant and equip it with all the machinery for their 1,100 employees to make solar panels...

Did these employees build the plant??? Well, no, they didn't... The building of the plant and equipping was done by contractors, sub contractors, engineers, architects, planners, etc., etc... It was built with materials that were made by a multitude of companies... All in all, tens of thousands of people were employed completely or partially by this "loan"... Now, back to Econ 101... There is a ripple effect in that when you have tens of thousands of people employed they spend money at grocery stores, malls, hardware stores, etc, etc. which saves or employes even more people who in turn spend money and the ripple effect goes and goes...

But reality doesn't fit nicely on Myth-Teaology bumper stickers and with the American people so dumbed down with very limited attention spans for boring Econ 101, it is virtually a waste of time trying to explain anything more complicated that watching cars drive in circles to them so...

...forget trying to make sense to people with IQ's in the lesser side of a box of creek rocks...

BTW, I thought the song was cute but that's about it...

If ya' wanta get to heaven
Ya' gotta D-I-E
Gotta put on your coat
And D-I-E

Wanta get the rabbit out the L-O-G
Gotta make a commotion
Like a D-O-G

(Waylon Jennings)

Never mind...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 07:15 PM

...and 600...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 07:17 PM

I remember Jean Dixon... Her batting average was worse than Helen Keller's... Well, that not exactly fair since Helen Keller was blind but, hey...

As fir GfinS being right??? She's way right, Don...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 07:20 PM

Daz right!...Some clocks, though, take a lickin' and keep on tickin'!
You know, a lot of us came into folk music, and the political side of it, during the '60's heyday...and when we first heard Dylan, Ochs, Rose, Guthrie, McGuire, Peter Paul and Mary, Baez, Collins, CSNY, Mitchell..and on and on, I remember thinking "Wow! where do they get those lyrics, and thoughts...and jeez, where are their heads at"..etc etc...and a lot of that was Before the Democratic Party co-opted the movement, with their phony 'concern' for what we all were thinking, and saying. actually, they just wanted the younger vote....and remember, LBJ, the piece of shit that he was ESCALATED the war in Vietnam, and his boy, McNamara, was drafting the freaks who were busted for either pot, or who were busted in the peace marches etc etc....and back then ALL of the political shit was against us...and why??..Because we didn't buy into their crap..either side, till RFK, who was sincere, and McGovern, who at best, was weak, and I think playing us........Meanwhile, we were listening to music, that had MEANINGS that the straight people just couldn't understand...but it spoke to the minds and hearts of us..and we understood it. It spoke to the human condition. I remember the first time I heard McGuire's 'Eve of Destruction' and Baez singing Ochs' 'There But For Fortune'
how it made you think outside the neatly formed box, that the 'establishment' prepared for us, thinking that we were going to grow up and be as non-thinking as they were...remember that?
Well guess what??...We grew up, alright, and a lot of you BECAME the non-thinking 'establishment'. I never sold out! My music got more 'arranged' and matured, my lyrics got deeper, and the double meanings got tripled, so just when you thought that 'you got it'..it took you another level higher..... When I've done concerts, in which I do a 30 minute piece, on the keyboards, though I was primarily a guitarist, though it has NO lyrics, leaves the audiences in tears, and giving me standing ovations! My lyrical stuff blows them away, as well!...But this doesn't come from 'following the party line'..of the 'establishment', and pandering to them....this touches their hearts, and minds, in places a lot of them forgot they even have!
You may have noticed, that even as much as Bobert and I go round and round...it is the MUSIC, and my taste in music that I post that blows him away!! My own personal music, frankly, is even better than a lot of the shit I post!...but I ain't playin' the same ol' shit that you can hear everyday on the crap-ass pop music radio!!! It has THOUGHT, and HEART, and TASTE....and is not composed, just to 'fit in'.
So when I give people shit on here, as you probably have been amused, or pissed off at, you will also notice, that I repeatedly have IMPLORED the 'Mudcatters', to employ, and wield the very thing that got America's attention before...and that is the music!....and to not use it to promote the same ol' crap that the rest of the country is divided along partisan lines about...IT HAS TO BE HEAVIER!!!!
After all, remember what got your attention, the first time.....

Regards!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:02 PM

Delusional post, GfinS...

What else have the Dems done??? Kidnap the Limburg baby??? Responsible for the Holocaust??? Invented cancer???

Get real... You sound like Lyndon LaRouche on meth...

You never sold out??? Bull!!! Your soul is owned by Boss Hog and all the Tea he can stuff in you...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:08 PM

Polly want a cracker?..Bobert's got one....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:19 PM

Parrot or cracker, G-ze???

No, I don't have a parrot... If I want one then all I have to do is tune in here and read the latest delusional Myth-Teaolgy but, hey, like LaRouche, you do make it interesting... Seriously... You, of all people, should Google up some of his speeches... Completely delusional but very, very entertaining...

BTW, did the Dems attack the World Trade Center, too???

LOL...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:36 PM

Jeez you're a one tracked Democratic robot. Ever had an original thought?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:48 PM

Lots... If you bothered to notice... But that ain't you...

Stick with music...

B~

p.s. Hey, it ain't the Dems that have created the current mess... No matter how you try to spin it...

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 11:01 PM

You and your fucking Democratic shit!..You have Dummocratic Diarrhea!
I sincerely hope you get over it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 11:16 PM

I hope you get over Teashititis...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM

What filosafurs.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 12:07 AM

GfS is obviously obsessed with feces. Impossible to have a rational discussion with those who have this kind of fixation.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 08:44 AM

GfS: Where are there links to your music?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 09:42 AM

999, My music, or the music I've posted?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 09:48 AM

Either or both.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 09:59 AM

Forget I said that. I misread.

I would like to hear YOUR music.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 10:08 AM

I just tried sending some stuff via e-mail, and when I find out if it got there, I'll let you know. The reason I haven't posted a lot of it before, was because we were in negotiations with a film company (unnamed), for a soundtrack, and had limitations on where I could expose it.
I WILL get back to you!..I'm just waiting to see if the e-mail could handle it.
Thanks for inquiring.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 11:12 AM

Great news about the sound track for a film. I truly hope it comes through for you. (And the bucks, too.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 11:35 AM

Me too!!
I checked my e-mail, and so far I haven't got word, whether he got it. I don't have your e-mail address, and thought you might not want to post it on here, being as you, as well as myself, are just a 'guest'. But, as soon as I hear back, to see if it fit, and he could open it, we might be able to work something out!
Regards!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 01:53 PM

No problem, GfS. We'll figure something out.

Politics is a buncha BS anyway. Music is a different thing. I believe we have a mutual friend on Mudcat. Perhaps we could do it through him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 02:27 PM

I want to hear some of it, too...

I mean, why not just do a blue clicky thru a mutual friend so everyone can hear some of it??? That would be easier... The rest of us are transparent so it's easier for us but a blue clicky would be nice... I know you like new agie kinda stuff but really have no idea what you you write...

I do know that you once made a snide comment about me not being able to read music so I assume that you score everything just like my wife does..

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 02:37 PM

Those of you who acknowledge an understanding of how we got here in folk music need to be aware of the history of why there is a Mudcat. In the late 1930's, the IWW introduced parodies to popular songs by Joe Hill and others in the Little Red Songbook. Through the the 30's and 40's, the Popular Front became a reaction to the Oligarchy that we see today and was supported sometimes not willingly by the Roosevelt Administration. During this time, the Left-wing movement encouraged and popularized the folk song revival by an adherence to the ideology of the worker, common man (woman), and thus "people's" music. The leaders of this folk movement are responsible for what we refer to as folk music today and much of it was politically inspired and based on that. Folklorists emanated from that period and their work was encouraged through that time. This is fact, historically, because prior to this time, not many were really interested in folk music, an archaic scalp-collecting pursuit by academics. John Lomax pioneered an interest through influencing Kittredge at Harvard to consider the literary merits of cowboy songs but the real pioneering came later when his son Alan became a P.R. spokesperson for the ideological value of folk music combining his anthropology and ethnomusicology with leftist politics. The torch was taken up by Pete Seeger and the two introduced Woody Guthrie to the urban communities in leftist New York, Chicago and L.A. Thus, politics played an important role in the folk revival of the sixties, historically. Carl Sandburg may have been the one to introduce the term "folk music" or "folk singer" in regard to American music, the premiere performer of these songs in his lectures and poetry readings. Sandburg was a leftie and celebrated "The People Yes". I find it necessary to remind people of where the folk music revival came from.

The Tea Party's ideology is manufactured populism combined with religious fundamentalism and they have no songs of merit. It's not a real movement but only being sold on corporate media outlets. Their music is warmed over pseudo-patriotic "Battle Hymn of the Republic" type songs and Irving Berlin's "God Bless America" (Berlin would have probably thrown up at the use of it today). Toby Keith and Lee Greenwood have not been as prolific as the music of the Popular Front and from the labor movement.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM

Yup, Strings...

No grassroots in the Tea Party...

Bought and paid for by some of the richest and most powerful corporatists in out country...

BTW, those were the people who also supported Hitler's rise in the 1030s...

History does repeat itself...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 05:52 PM

Correction: "1930s..."

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 12:16 AM

Yeah, EVERYBODY thinks that theirs ISN'T grassroots!...and they ALL are right, about everybody else, as well!..Which is why I've been on your shit so much. None of them are dialed in, nor what they appear to be!
.......another cool thing about music, and those who have the 'gift'; Why hand it over to the phonies and their cronies??..More focus on the 'gift' and what you can do with it, and who you give it to...and to what end!
I have to echo,999's thought...politics is bullshit...everybody is trying to fuck over somebody, and make 'their' people smile about it as they do it!..Shit...you want to make people 'weep'?....cause them to do it because of the beauty they experience, (music included!) instead of the result of some one's will over the other!!

999, I haven't heard if the e-mail worked yet(he hasn't gotten back, yet).

...and Bobert, not everyone who you don't agree with, is of another 'enemy' party!...I have NO party affiliation...but I do find bits of truth in all of them...along with bullshit spin too..the trick is to separate it....but even better yet, is just focus in on what is true!
That way somebody is ALWAYS going to disagree, and give you shit you!!

Waving!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 11:47 AM

Problem is, GfinS, that we keep reading Tea Party talking points from you... You might not "belong" to the Tea Party but you certainly are parroting their propaganda...

Back to music... Yeah, it's a gift and I do enjoy sharing that gift with other for the shear humanity of sharing... BTW, I think that I'll have a CD of the workshop I did in DC last week and, if so, I'll do my best to share some of it here... Even if it means having to get some technical help in doing so...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 02:13 PM

Bobert: "...I'll have a CD of the workshop I did in DC last week and, if so, I'll do my best to share some of it here... Even if it means having to get some technical help in doing so..."

Anything I can do to help!

...and, like I said before, ALL the parties have a bit of truth in them, and also some bullshit...so if someone says, something, or reveals some part of that truth, from 'another' party, it doesn't mean, that person BELONGS to the other party!...but like I've said, repeatedly, and just quoted back to me, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."....and really, all this political noise, is just that: Noise!..
"The voice of deception has uneven rhythms,
Just listen to the man who's afraid,
The man who's afraid, will have all sorts of answers,
To the problems inside his own head.
The threat from the 'outside',
is now, and forever alive..."
                              Paul 'Biff' Rose~1969.


Something to ponder.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 03:35 PM

The Democratic Party "co-opted" the folk music revival? When and how did they go about that, GfS? I was there. I don't remember that. In fact, I don't think the Democratic Party even thought about the folk music movement (except possibly decades earlier when the IWW was active, especially out here on the West Coast), if they were even aware that there was much of anything going on in that area until Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs, and others started writing and singing protest songs. But a lot of people were there, singing folk songs and ballads long, long before Bob Dylan came along—and all the other people you mentioned, with the exception of Woody Guthrie (and you completely missed the Almanac Singers, who also predated the period you're talking about).

Then, of course, there was the House Un-American Activities Committee, that REALLY drew attention to the burgeoning interest in folk music when they tried (unsuccessfully) to stomp Pete Seeger into the ground. Contrary to their intention to shut him up, they succeeded in drawing attention to him and to the protest songs that some were writing and singing.

Most of the people I knew kept their music and their politics in separate boxes. I, for one, regarded most protest or political songs to be something like what might be called "poster art." I thought that, aesthetically, it tended to be a bit cheesy. I rarely sang "cause" songs, limiting my small repertoire of such material to peace songs, and then usually only on request. There was only a small percentage of the people I knew who were primarily involved in protest songs.

So your characterization of all of us who don't buy what you're trying to sell as being "brainwashed" into accept everything the "establishment" wants us to accept, just doesn't mesh with reality, especially when you seem to think the establishment consists of the Democratic Party, while the Tea Party is a new and fresh breeze blowing in the land.

You might go back and read Stringsinger's post at 17 Sep 11 - 02:37 p.m. He was there also and he knows what was going on, even better than I do.

I happened to come across a thread that was running a few months back, entitled "practice, practice, practice." There, you actually showed that you can occasionally write a complete sentence that expresses a cohesive thought, and that you may have actually had a grasp of what the subject was, and you did it without sounding like you got your material by stirring the septic tank.

You've told me a number of times (liberally sprinkling your comments with insults and general toilet-mouthed verbiage) that I should stick to music and leave politics alone. Well, considering your grasp of history, political principles, and current events, I would say that it might be a good idea for you to follow your own advice.

Don Firth

P. S:   By the way, referring to your scatalogical reference to LBJ:   He is not the one who started the Viet Nam war, as you claim (any more that FDR started WWII to end the Depression, as the Right Wing tries to claim). One of the things LBJ DID do was to sign the Civil Rights bill into law.

But then, you're not all that hot on some people having civil rights, are you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 05:41 PM

Thanks, Don. Yes, we were there when others were not born yet.

It's important that we get the history out there before it gets co-opted and "corrected".
It was the CPUSA not the Democratic Party, that was behind a lot of folk music although in many labor circles, they were dancing to Benny Goodman. Nobody thought anything of Woody's "This Land Is Your Land".

Phil Och's "Small Circle of Friends" applies here.

The CPUSA was naive and had no real idea what "Uncle Joe" was up to. They would have been horrified if they knew. But the songs pre-dated the entry of Earl Browder and the CPUSA.

Bob Miller wrote his "Seven Cent Cotton early. Harry "Haywire Mac" McClintock was singing Wobbly songs and social issued songs before Burl Ives and Josh White. BTW, Josh, Burl and Tom Glazer were the "Union Boys".

Ronald Cohen and Dave Samuels have an excellent set of CD's showing the evolution of the political protest folk songs. I think it can be ordered through University of Indiana where Ron is a history professor. I think the CD is called "Broadside" but someone else may be able to fill in better details.

I remember getting copies of the "Hobo News" which dealt with songs about working conditions and labor though mostly about not working and labor.

The protest song goes back to the 15 century by the rise of the farmer's rebellion in Germany against Martin Luther in a song called "Die Gedanken Sind Frei" (My thoughts are free) with an excellent english text by Arthur S. Kevess. Check Pete Seeger's recording of it.

If you want to know the history of the early days and background for the rise of the folk music revival you gotta' read this book.....if you can find it.

Denning, Michael. The Cultural Front: The Laboring American Culture in the Twentieth Century. London: Verso, 2007.

The Tea Party only wishes it could have been half as effective as The Popular Front.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 08:03 PM

Thanks, Don and Strings, for those most informative posts... Little after my time so it's nice to get into some stuff of which I was (and am) not aware...

I did know that Pete was investigated for being a "commie" but that is probably all I know of those times as it applies to folk music...

We all agree, however, that the Tea Party is no more a grassroots organization than Exxon or Blackwater...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 03:47 AM

There you go again!.....I said during the '60's. Jeez, if you want to go back far enough, check the date on "House Carpenter" ..some people have it going back 400 years!...(some don't, so don't get thy knickers in a twist)


And then there is this message from the Queen:


To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your immediate failure to financially manage yourselves and also in recent years your tendency to elect incompetent Presidents of the USA and therefore not able to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately. (You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas , which she does not fancy).

Your new Prime Minister, David Cameron, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated sometime next year to determine whether any of you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
------------------------
2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'
-------------------
3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.
-----------------
4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.
----------------------
5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
----------------------
6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.   Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
--------------------
7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.
-------------------
8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
-------------------
9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. New Zealand beer is also acceptable, as New Zealand is pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
---------------------
10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.
---------------------
11. You will cease playing American football. There are only two kinds of proper football; one you call soccer, and rugby (dominated by the New Zealanders). Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
---------------------
12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America . Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the Australians (World dominators) first to take the sting out of their deliveries.
--------------------
13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.
-----------------
14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
---------------
15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.



God Save the Queen!



PS: Only share this with friends who have a good sense of humour (NOT humor)!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 08:58 AM

The neo-cons were perfectly happy to borrow money to invade Iraq... In the 5 years after the invasion not one ever mentioned that we should have, ahhhhhh, increased revenues to pay for them... Not a peep out of them.... So much for fiscal conservatism... They are just using that now as a means to try to get back the White House so they can go back to Reaganomics on crack...

No thanks... Nothing fiscally conservative about trickle down, voodoo, suppply side economics... Nothing... It is a failed economic model... It had it's time and it failed the Final Exam in the Fall of '08...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 01:41 PM

What I was pointing out to you, GfS, is that EVEN IN THE SIXTIES, not every singer of folk songs was into politics or singing political songs. We were not all dope-sodden leftist hippies as you're trying to claim.

Ye gods, learn to READ!

(And copying someone else's web page is the best you can do? That "message from Queen Elizabeth II" is all over the internet. Well, at least it was well-written and correctly punctuated. That's how I knew it wasn't you.)

By the way:   President Obama is now coming on like Gang Busters in the matter of making the wealthy and the corporations pay their fair share. Apparently he got the message that the Right Wing will not agree to anything he asks for, come hell or high water, no matter how good it is for the country. So it's get tough time. He says he'll veto any bill that does not contain a tax increase for the wealthy.

That's more like it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 03:37 PM

Bobert: "The neo-cons were perfectly happy to borrow money to invade Iraq... In the 5 years after the invasion not one ever mentioned that we should have, ahhhhhh, increased revenues to pay for them..."

Actually, it was an unfunded war...I'm surprised you, a frothing Democrat didn't know that..its a Democrat/Progressive talking point.(True story).

Don Firth: "What I was pointing out to you, GfS, is that EVEN IN THE SIXTIES, not every singer of folk songs was into politics or singing political songs. We were not all dope-sodden leftist hippies as you're trying to claim."

And there YOU go AGAIN...I never said that..so, if you want to debate the arguments posed by a couple of the voices in your head, go right ahead....just don't attribute what the voices are saying, as if they are coming from me.

Jeez....some people are just plain redundant, in their psychosis !

You get into more shit doing that, why don't you just knock it off?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 04:52 PM

It's all up there for anybody to read, GfS. Go ahead and wriggle like a snake all you want, it's not going to delete what anybody can read for themselves.

Have a nice day.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM

And your point is what, GfinS???

You need to quit the LaRouche meds...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 12:46 AM

I just re-read it....I don't even know how you contrived how you got whatever you got, out of what I said...BUT...its not the first time!
So, I'll say what I was saying in real simple terms, because you seem to have difficulties with understanding what some one ELSE says. The peace movement of the '60's was co-opted by the Democratic Party.
Johnson was a Democrat.
Johnson escalated the war.
As the war grew more unpopular, the Democrats, in order to gain a base, co-opted the peace movement.
RFK was, I believe genuine.
McGovern was weak.
See Dick run.
See hung over wannabe folk singers, whose heyday was in the '60's still don't get it.
See wannabe political activists, don't understand why people are not interested in their music.

What don't you get???
Never mind...I can't believe I've spent so much time on you two over bullshit partisan politics...I just thought you were into music more that trying to be included into the numbers of the tragically 'hip'.

...but even back then, we had an expression, which holds true today... "'Turn on' a lame, and what you get is a 'turned on' lame".

No wonder.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 01:16 AM

"RFK was, I believe genuine."

I don't agree GfS. (I agree you believe that, but not that he was genuine.) He didn't enter the race until McCarthy showed that just maybe a peace ticket might fly.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 01:37 AM

Ok....I can buy that.
I was working off the fact that JFK did not want to get more involved in S.E. Asia, and RFK would be closer to knowing the 'ins and outs' of why.

So, do you think that McCarthy was exploiting the peace movement to expand his base? or do/did think he was genuine?

From the impression I got back then, I thought his base was more confident in him, than he came across.

Curious to get your input/feedback.

Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:19 AM

GfS, after you call Lyndon B. Johnson a "piece of shit" (Mark Twain would turn green with envy at your sensitively insightful political critiques) and beef about how McNamara drafted all the pot-heads and demonstrators (I didn't know it was McNamara who had that power), and the fact that you used the word "us," not "you," in relation to all this—plus the fact that your style of verbal expression (rambling and often incoherent) is very much like that of an acquaintance of mine who, during the Sixties, fried his brain with incessant use of pot when he wasn't experimenting with more exotic stuff—

Now I no longer need to wonder about the source of your screwed up view of the history AND your bewilderment over the current political climate.

And then you go on to say just above:

"The peace movement of the '60's was co-opted by the Democratic Party.
Johnson was a Democrat.
Johnson escalated the war.
As the war grew more unpopular, the Democrats, in order to gain a base, co-opted the peace movement."

What the hell planet were you living on back in the Sixties, GfS? Whichever one it was, it's pretty obvious that you must have been perpetually stoned.

If anything, the peace movement co-opted the Democratic Party!

But that was then. THIS IS NOW!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:41 AM

like I said, earlier, "'Turn on' a lame, and what you get is a 'turned on' lame!"

Your post was so stupid, that I think you were just grasping at straws, just to bitch and moan.
....and speaking of Your sense of history, you must have been chasing down chicks in bars.....but that's another story.....

GfS

Hey, let it go. You're trying to 'reach' too deep, and you just don't have the tools..OK?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:59 AM

I'm just a tad biased when it comes to McCarthy. I wrote his campaign song and worked on his behalf from the primaries on. I think RFK understood the issues, but I think McCarthy 'meant' it. The voting records of both Humphrey and McCarthy with regard to civil rights were very good--exceptional, in fact. That particular set of primaries and the end result in Chicago, 1968, were the end of both belief in the so-called democratic process in the US and and belief by many that voting could ever change anything for the better. Of course, the war dragged on for five more years. Nixon, while good in terms of his China policy, was a devious sonuvabitch, and his eventual resignation--read resign or be impeached--left a seriously bad taste in the mouths of Democrats, Republicans and voters of both persuasions. At the least, it caused people to question the Electoral College, and people still question its usefulness today.

I would point out that while opposition to the war had got many 'folkies' involved, the reality is that less than 5% of American people were involved in antiwar protest. It wasn't until the body bags started being returned to small town America that the tide of opposition to the war grew.

I think the nail in the peace platform really happened after the murder of Martin Luther King because so many lost all faith in America as a land of the free. People of colour had a man who was not afraid to stand up, and people saw what happened to people who stood up.

Today, those who voice opposition to 'the machine' face a similar fate although it's not bullets now, it's economic strangulation. The difference in manner of death is purely cosmetic.

That's my take on it, anyway, GfS. Thank you for asking.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 09:09 AM

My exact thinking, Don, as I read GfinS's post... "No, the peace movement co-opted the Democratic Party"...

Like you, brucie, I worked in the McCarthy campaign but had just read Bobby Kennedy's book "Seeking a New World" (or something like that) and was very impressed with him and confess to be one of those who bolted to the Kennedy campaign... Sorry... Yeah, 'caused a few riffs with some of my friends but we all got over them...

But I kept my McCarthy decal (remember those big flowers) on the back of VW along with my Kennedy sticker...

Now back to the Tea Party and GfinS's MythTeaology... One thing is for sure and that is where ever Lyndon LaRouche is (Sweden???) he's smiling ear to ear...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:29 PM

Hey, GfS, that was a pretty good hissy-fit there!

That's a clear tip-off that I really hit a nerve! And you call MY post "stupid!"

I never smoked pot or took any other illegal drugs. And I didn't have to chase girls in bars. They chased me.

Been thinking about your ideal ticket, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul. How does THIS grab you?

Mother Teresa and Attila the Hun.

(Makes about as much sense as yours.)

Don Firth

Subject: Lyr Add: KILROY (poem by Eugene McCarthy)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM

Bankley got me a McCarthy button--the white lettering on blue background--when he was in Georgia a few years back. I'll tell ya Bobster, nostalgia ain't what it used to be, but then neither is apple pie.

I was also aware you'd worked for Gene. I liked it when his 'Kilroy' appeared in high school English texts.

"Few now remember that Gene McCarthy was the first US House member to debate Republican anticommunist icon Sen. Joe McCarthy head-to-head, the first Congressman to call for Congressional oversight of the CIA, the first to introduce the Equal Rights Amendment in the Senate, and the first to lead a Senate subcommittee on remedying hunger in America." (that info from the Daily Kos)


KILROY
by Eugene J. McCarthy

Kilroy is gone,
the word is out,
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

Kilroy
who wrote his name
in every can
from Poland to Japan
and places in between
like Sheboygan and Racine
is gone
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

Kilroy
who kept the dice
and stole the ice
out of the BOQ

Kilroy
whose name was good
on every IOU
in World War II
and even in Korea
is gone
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

Kilroy
the unknown soldier
who was the first to land
the last to leave,
with his own hand
has taken his good name
from all the walls
and toilet stalls.

Kilroy
whose name around the world
was like the flag unfurled
has run it down
and left Saigon
and the Mekong
without a hero or a song
and gone
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

--from Eugene J. McCarthy, Selected Poems, (Rochester MN: Lone Oak Press) 1997 [ISBN 1-883477-15-8]


America missed electing a president who, in my opinion, would have changed the course of the last fifty years of history. His death in 2005 saddened me greatly, because we just ain't got enough people, elected people, like him. To me, that is the real tragedy of 1968.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 04:19 PM

Yup... The '68 election was a disaster all the way around... From McCarthy to Kennedy to Chicago to Humphrey (yuck) to Nixon to more and more and more Vietnam war...

The sex, drugs and rock 'n roll was good, however...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

I was watching with a great deal of interest back then. I tended to favor Bobby Kennedy, but I was scanning the other candidates as well. I liked where McCarthy was coming from, but I got turned off a bit by some of his side-remarks about Kennedy. That all ended, of course, on June 5th, 1968 in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles. Come election time, I voted for Hubert Humphrey as pale alternative to those who had gone before, keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that he would win over Nixon, intending to keep them crossed if he, indeed, won. But—

Nixon made my scalp crawl from the first time I set eyes on him. Anybody recall the John F. Kennedy-Nixon debates on television in 1960? I had him spotted as a weasel back then.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 07:53 PM

I hate to admit it but after Kennedy was assassinated I felt so invested to defeating Nixon that I knocked on doors for HHH...

Oh, the shame...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 11:35 PM

Thank you, 999, good post...Informative too.

Don, You didn't hit a nerve, it was just plain stupid, that's all...and if you didn't know, or can't remember about McNamara, and the draft, and who got shoved to the top of the list, and why..then you really know less than you try to impress people with. It was/is a lame post....and I'll let it go at that.

Bobert, I'd be ashamed if I were knocking on doors for HHH, too...but all things considering, (Nixon vs. Humphrey), I guess you get a pass....THIS TIME!

Gawd, don't you just 'love' it when all we get to vote for is the choice of two weirdos?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 12:33 AM

Thank you, GfS, that was kind of you to say.

One point I wish to make with both you and Bobert is this: HHH deserved not to be elected because he had shilled for Johnson, and that just wasn't right. However, until then he had been an exemplary member of Congress and a man even his enemies were proud to know. I do not know what caused the change in him and I suppose that will be one of this life's little mysteries for me.

"The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in shadows of life, the sick, the needy, and the handicapped."

Indeed, his early life was hard, and the 1920s and 1930s were unkind to his family. From that era he developed a real compassion for people, a compassion I feel he never left behind. One has but to read his work on behalf of education, civil rights and labour to know that he was a giant in his time, perhaps too much of one.

"Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism."

That statement alone should be enough to marginalize the Bachmanns and Palins of this world.

I would recommend the Wikipedia article about HHH in lieu of reading more deeply about him. I admire him very much for his courage and so many great ideas he pushed forth in Washington. The following from the Wikipedia article speaks more eloquently about his integrity than a million platitudes.

"In 1934 Hubert began dating Muriel Buck; she was a bookkeeper and graduate of local Huron College. They were married in 1936 and remained married until Humphrey's death nearly 42 years later. They had four children: Hubert Humphrey III, Nancy, Robert, and Douglas. Unlike many prominent politicians Humphrey never became wealthy, and through most of his years as a U.S. Senator and Vice President, he lived in a modest middle-class housing development in Chevy Chase, Maryland. In 1958, Hubert and Muriel used their savings to build a lakefront home in Waverly, Minnesota, about forty miles west of Minneapolis."

I think it is easy to forget the good people have done, and he did more good than most, imo. I wish we had more people like him in government today.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 01:28 AM

Guest,999: ""Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism."

I don't know where you got that quote, but I got one for you, from a screenplay I had written(along with the musical score, and soundtrack),
Now, think this through......."When loving comes to giving, some people stop at nothing."

Regards!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 02:56 AM

The line I quoted is from HHH.

The line you wrote is beautiful. Congratulations.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 08:57 AM

What the hell is going on here??? A Herbert Humphrey love-fest, or what???

Actually, brucie... LBJ stuck it to Humphrey just 3 weeks before the election... If you recall, Humphrey had stated that if he became president that he would stop the bombing of North Vietnam... Nixon, on the other hand, ran on his "secret plan" to end the war... Humphrey's position was clearer and in an election so close might have gotten him elected but...

...LBJ announced that he was ordering the bombing to be stopped right around the middle of October... That took the wind out of Humphrey's sails and he never recovered...

BTW, it turned out that Nixon didn't have any "secret plan" as the war went on another 6 years...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 10:18 AM

Tricky Dick's "secret plan" was to scam the electorate - & it worked a treat.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 10:59 AM

Yup, Greg... Plus it was so secret that Nixon himself didn't know what it was... lol...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 11:06 AM

If you're going to San Francisco
Be sure to wear . . . .


This line from that article says it all to me:

"Unlike many prominent politicians Humphrey never became wealthy, and through most of his years as a U.S. Senator and Vice President, he lived in a modest middle-class housing development in Chevy Chase, Maryland."

Who can that be said of today?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 12:02 PM

Bernie Sanders.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 01:30 PM

Hey, I remember growing up the 50s in Northern Virgina and guess what???

Everyone lived modestly... In the subdivision we moved to when I was 6 years old, all the houses had either 2 or 3 bedrooms and no air conditioning... But in the subdivision there were a couple congressmen, one admiral, at least two generals, doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs... Okay, I made up the Indian chief but we did have an Native American country singer named Marvin Rainwater... But we also had people like my dad who worked for Ford Motor company and our next door neighbor worked for a printing company...

That's the way America used to be and we didn't have all these crybaby Tea Partiers threatening to kill people who disagreed with them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 03:10 PM

True, Greg. Too bad it takes 1000 bad politicians to ruin the reputation of one good one.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 04:38 PM

Just to set the record straight, GfS.

During the Sixties, Robert McNamara was generally regarded by young men of draftable age as the ultimate villain. But in actuality, he was not the ultimate villain, even if he was right in there with the bad guys.

As Secretary of Defense, he did have a great deal to say about how the draft was conducted. But he did NOT have the final say. Nevertheless, noting that the armed forces were made up mostly of men from lower economic classes, including racial minorities, while the sons of more "privileged" families managed to get conveniently "passed over," in order to make the draft more equitable, McNamara instituted what he considered a fairer way:   a draft lottery.

This, of course, didn't go over well with those "privileged" families—nor on college campuses, because it made getting a student deferment considerably more complicated than merely registering for school. Student deferments were no longer automatic. This was one of the major spurs of the anti-Vietnam war protests, especially on college campuses.

McNamara was certainly not one of the "good guys" in the Vietnam brouhaha, but he got a helluva lot more bad press over this that he really deserved.

Ya know, GfS, you really need to look beyond the obvious. And frankly, I don't have the time to spend on your education. Why don't you learn a fact or two before you start shooting your mouth off?

(Talk about "lame!!")

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 12:17 AM

Don: "...Ya know, GfS, you really need to look beyond the obvious."

Ya know, Don, you might really even consider the obvious...(that way you might not have to project your bullshit into other people).

...and YES, McNamara Did have a policy of moving kids busted for pot, and other things into '1-A'...also there was a lot of kids who were offered to go to Vietnam, instead of jail, for certain busts...and if you don't 'recall' that, then keep your 'education' to yourself, and don't even try 'educating' me..or frankly anyone. You just make shit up!..and deny the truth.

save it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 01:31 AM

Amd you know this because you were one of them, I take it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 02:13 AM

No, not at all.
Hey just look it up. What I posted was TRUE.

"God help this country, if Lyndon ever becomes President" -John Kennedy speaking of his then Vice President.

Guest, 999, I haven't heard back from our 'mutual friend' (as you said, but not exactly sure who you meant) to see if was able to receive the attachments and open them successfully. The ones I sent him were older ones, but still pretty good. The new stuff is killer!.....and should soon be on iTunes.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 09:07 AM

Actually, as repulsive a man as Lyndon was, as president he was able to get things done that John Kennedy couldn't... John Kennedy never would have gotten the Civil Rights Act true Congress... It took a Southerner to do it... But not just any Southerner... Johnson had personal relationships with just about everyone "up on the hill" and the "Johnson tapes" reveal just how Lydon went about twisting folks arms and cajoling them to do stuff that they really didn't want to do... He deserves our respect for doing that... He also deserves out respect for putting policy over party because he said that in passing the Civil Rights Act he would set his party back 2 decades...

Missed on that one... Here we are into the 5th decade of Southerners still punishing the Democrats for civil rights...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 10:37 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 04:36 PM

ROFLMAO!!....pretty soon a whole crowd will be laughing!!

Johnson BLOCKED civil rights legislation under Eisenhower!
Johnson, even in Texas, was known as a horse's ass!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 05:10 PM

The unifying raison de'etre is Old Time Religion, not taxes, not ideology but a return to a mythical "Christianized" America, using the false claims about the Founding Fathers who were mostly Deists. The schizophrenic nod to atheist Ayn Rand is ignored by the Tea Party who may like the elitist role played by the super-wealthy but have not come to terms with Rand's view of their religion. Are Paul Ryan, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Karl Rove and Grover Norquist atheists and if so, would they admit it? (I don't think so!)

Perry is the principal figurehead for this movement followed by Bachmann and this is the reason that the Mormon Romney is the enemy although now as Perry tanks for his poor performance at the Republican debates in Florida, the GOP has nowhere to turn except to the "infidel" Romney. Will Tea Partiers stay home on election day? Will that matter?

Unless a "dark horse" enters the race, Romney is it. Can Obama nail him?

Here's the elephant in the room, elections are controlled throughout the country by Republican Governors almost ensuring election frauds in many states and these will be contested, despite the Supreme Court's proclamation that a "Bush v. Gore" will not be revisited. You know how SCOTUS will vote. Pennsylvania has already planned to throw it's delegates to Republicans, a model for elections in other states. Doesn't sound too democratic although they say it's legal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 05:49 PM

Stringsinger: ".....The schizophrenic nod to atheist Ayn Rand is ignored by the Tea Party who may like the elitist role played by the super-wealthy but have not come to terms with Rand's view of their religion. Are Paul Ryan, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Karl Rove and Grover Norquist atheists and if so, would they admit it? (I don't think so!)"

Gosh, wasn't Obama touting that he went to Rev. Wright's Christian church???? That didn't seem to bother you....even though most Americans think he is really Muslim....So, it sounds like you just have a 'beef' with Christianity, or God, ..or even yourself.
What's your bottom line???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 06:47 PM

GfS:

irishancestry

Make a note of that, SVP.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 06:49 PM

I just noticed my last post was number 666.

Let that be a warning to anyone who intends to fu#k with me. lol

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 07:01 PM

The song is "Dream On' by Greg Brown....click on the 'Play Icon'

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 07:04 PM

999, "666"??..your 'wits and balls' appear to have gone head over heels!..What happened?...You found a Dreamy lass??

Smirk!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 08:36 PM

GfS:

Wise ass.

Now, think 'gee ma, a male'.


Then, get in touch.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 08:41 PM

Two things, GfinS, that you miss...

Regardless of LBJ's Southern and, yes, even racist past, it was this man who pushed the Civil Rights Act thru...

Do you deny that??? A yes or no will do...

Regardless of Ayn Rand's atheism, it isn't her views on religion that make her the darling of the today's right wing...

Do you deny that??? A yes or no will do...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 09:20 PM

"I'll have those ni****rs voting Democratic for the next 200 years." LBJ

That says it all

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 09:24 PM

That said it all then, but it don't say it all now.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 09:46 PM

No, it doesn't say it all, Saws...

LBJ was a crass man who had a way with words (many times in a bad way) but he also said that pushing the Civil Rights Act would kill his party for 20 years... Have you ever heard the Johnson tapes and his conversations with Dr. King??? I doubt it... BTW, I have heard them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 11:50 PM

This is disturbing:

Former U.S. Commission on Civil Rights Chairman Mary Frances Berry, a long-time prominent liberal activist, has admitted in an interview with Politico that the left is trying to smear the tea party movement as "racist" for strategic reasons, not out of genuine concern that the movement is itself racist.

"Tainting the tea party movement with the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. There is no evidence that tea party adherents are any more racist than other Republicans, and indeed many other Americans. But getting them to spend their time purging their ranks and having candidates distance themselves should help Democrats win in November. Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."

http://dailybail.com/home/busted-liberals-admit-racism-charges-against-tea-parties-a-t.html

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 11:53 PM

Hello Sawzaw!..Nice to see you on again! Have you been keeping up on this thread?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 12:07 AM

Oh really, songwriter???

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it a duck...

The Tea Party is made up of hodge-podge of government haters... The KKK were government haters... The Minutemen were government haters... The CSA were government haters...

If you bed down with fleas expect to get bit...

Any real student of 20th century America and especially Jim Crow, knows all about these people...

No, not their owners... Their owners are big shot corportists who use these people as cannon fodder or brown shirts depending on what is needed...

The Tea Party is made up of fools, pawns and dupes of the Koch brothers and a mix of other folks who want to rip us off or pollute our air or water...

It's very simple...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 01:40 AM

Bobert: "Regardless of LBJ's Southern and, yes, even racist past, it was this man who pushed the Civil Rights Act thru...
Do you deny that??? A yes or no will do.."

Yes he did..for what reasons, though, are still open for debate...and I hardly give a rat's ass!..He was still a crooked, and shitty President.

So what?

Songwronger: ""Tainting the tea party movement with the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. There is no evidence that tea party adherents are any more racist than other Republicans, and indeed many other Americans. But getting them to spend their time purging their ranks and having candidates distance themselves should help Democrats win in November. Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."

You MUST have noticed, that in this forum, the left is using the same old worn out tactic...It really does keep them from an honest dialogue about the economy, Obama's failed policies, his over reaching his legitimate Presidential powers, his corrupt interaction with the globalist bankers....and the fact, that he is completely inept, and relies on his glib tongue, and reading the teleprompter, on his rehearsed lies.
I have not found ANY evidence that there is one honest bone within him!.....but because he is a Democrat(in name only), the more simple minded Democrats, will make an incredible effort to make excuses for him...even though his closest cronies are against the very things that 'normal' Democrats say they oppose!!!..Like the bankers, war, Wall Street, BP, (and other oil companies), unemployment vs. jobs, the Federal Reserve, 'CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN', and a different course of policies, like his predecessor, Bush.
This guy is a scamming con artist, if ever there was one! He's been more destructive to America, than even the terrorists!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 02:09 AM

Stringsinger,

If you think it's dead, stop reviving it.

Your history is to make a remark and leave. OK. But make a point before you leave. I respect what you did, but I want something to respect now.

Three times you insulted me and I said nothing because I revered your history and courage. This is not number four. However, at some point I will question what you say, and that point is real soon.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 02:10 AM

Visual aid for the just above.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 10:34 AM

Don, Thank you for giving us a link to your mentor!
Now it is clear how you became so astute!
Smirk..and a wink.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 10:53 AM

Pronunciation:/ˈpɒlɪtɪks/
concerned with power, status, etc. within an organization, rather than with matters of principle.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 10:57 AM

Irrespective the thread or the intimation, Don. That link is just plain HI-larious!

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 05:29 PM

Now, that IS lame! Kinda like "Same to you and make that double! Nyah nyah nyah!!"

Very school yard.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 08:39 PM

What worries me is that intelligent people think that everyone else is, at the very least, as intelligent equal to that of a box of animal crackers...

I am beginning to be very concerned that the intelligent people have grossly overestimated here...

Aldoux Huxley may have hit the nail on the head in "Brave New World" in that we may have sufficiently dumbed down our population that we do, indeed, have an entire EPSILON NATION in our midst... These people really have no use for facts... They are ready and willing yell "Hang 'um" at political rallies in reference to Barack Obama... They threaten to shoot people who their masters want shot... They love any anti-government conspiracy theory...

Ya' know, if we don't get back to education then this nation is going to be taken over by EPSILON NATION and their masters (Koch brothers, Dick Armey, etc...)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 11:32 AM

LMAO!!...
Herman Cain won the Florida straw poll!..by a landslide!!

So, Bobert, there goes your 'Tea Party and them being racist theory'!!
So, now you'll probably have to shift your hate blather from Palin/Bachmann to Cain...but watch out!!...Remember all those accusations you made about everyone who criticized Obama??...and you labeled them racist bigots??!!!
Shoe is on the other foot!

..and actually as I've posted several times, Obama's problem wasn't that he was 'black'...he's just a shitty President, who played the race card to the 'left' for his advantage...and the silly suckers went for it!!!

Have a Beautiful day!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 12:42 PM

Making a point before I leave, the Tea Party is based on religious reaction, not economics (as witnessed by the ignoring of facts) and this is why they support Bachmann and Perry who belong to religious fundamentalist organizations such as Perry does with the New Apostolic Reformation. Ayn Rand was a self-avowed atheist and her views work in opposition to the religious bias of the Tea Party. This creates a schizoid ideology within the framework of the Tea Party.

Obama is not completely formed yet. No one could be shittier than W as a president. His administration bankrupted the U.S., corrupted the Congress and the Supreme Court, killed many innocents in Iraq and unfortunately Obama bought into some of this. Obama didn't play the race card to get elected. People wanted something better than Bush and they saw hope in Obama's intelligence and education. The "race card" accusers have to examine their own racism in their remarks. This is analogous to the term "political correct" which is used by those who defend their reactionary positions as if they were objective.

Obama has made some serious errors, continuation of the war in Afghanistan, executing Osama bin Laden without a trial, allowing his financial advisors to run roughshod over him as shown in Suskind's latest book, keeping Guantanamo open, not allowing the DOJ to investigate the Bush war crimes, diluting health care by taking single-payer off the table, and by compromising too much when dealing with Tea Party Republicans. This last point may be changing.

"It ain't over t'il it's over" and we might see a different Obama if we're lucky. Otherwise, if the Republicans get in, we will be consigned to a shitty administration for another four years.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 01:26 PM

Stringsinger: "...No one could be shittier than W as a president..."

Except Obama. They were BOTH disasters!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 02:31 PM

Anybody following the Wall Street protests? The kids have been at it for a week. I love those little fuc#ers. At last, people who have seen the enemy for what it is. While the talk goes on here, the walk goes on there.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 04:14 PM

Stringsinger definitely has a clear view of the situation the country is in.

Regarding the Tea Party, religious fundamentalism, and Ayn Rand:

Even though, to any rational person, there is a blatant, head-butting contradiction between the religious fundamentalism that the Tea Party folks embrace and their acceptance of Ayn Rand's ideas of how the country should be run, this kind of contradiction actually permeates the thinking of these people. And this, in itself, explains a lot about them.

Christian fundamentalists, when it comes down to it, are not Christian at all. Claiming that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, they pick and choose the verses that support the view of life that they favor. What George Lakoff calls the "strict father" cultural principle:   father lays down the rules, and woe be to the child who transgresses or disobeys. "Thou shalt not—" with dire punishments to the transgressor. Stick and carrot. The carrot, of course, is everlasting life, blissfully drifting around on a pink cloud, playing a harp, and praising God (the stern Father – not the endearing "Daddy"). The stick? The threat of Eternal Hellfire if you disobey! Or even question!

An acquaintance of mine, who "defected" from a fundamentalist church after he sat down with his Bible and actually read it, rather than merely looking up selected, out of context verses assigned by his minister, commented about the church he had just left, "In addition to trying to control everybody's lives and being angry and vengeful toward anyone of falls short of their expectations rather than being understanding and forgiving as Jesus says one should be, their minds are so selfishly set on their own personal salvation and getting to heaven that, instead of being good Christians in this life, they are no earthly good whatever!"

This, as contrasted with Lakoff's "nurturing parent," the parent or parents who raise a child with love rather than fear and do their best to help their children achieve their own best potential. And to be loving and giving. And forgiving!

Simplistically put, the Christian fundamentalist's God is the angry, lightning-bolt hurling Patriarch of the Old Testament.

What my acquaintance did was to read much of the New Testament—greatly neglected in his church, save for the Book of Revelation—especially the Gospels, seeking out what Jesus (presumably) actually said (much neglected by his church). And THIS, to him, was a revelation. "The Beatitudes" (Matthew 5:3-12) were never mentioned in his church, nor was the passage in Matthew 25:35-40 ever talked about. These passages, to many liberal, open Christian churches, are the very (if I may use the word in this context) CRUX of genuine Christian belief.

Now.

Here are Ayn Rand's political ethics in her own words:

"Men must deal with one another as traders, giving value for value, by free, mutual consent to mutual benefit. The only social system that bars physical force from human relationships is laissez-faire capitalism. Capitalism is a system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which the only function of the government is to protect individual rights, i.e., to protect men from those who initiate the use of physical force. Objectivism rejects any form of collectivism, such as fascism or socialism, and it also rejects the current 'mixed economy' notion that the government should regulate business and the economy in general, nor should it redistribute wealth."

"When I say 'capitalism,' I mean a pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism – with a separation of economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as a separation of state and church."

Ayn Rand on environmentalism:

"From the most primitive cultures to the most advanced civilizations, man has had to manufacture things; his well-being depends on his success at production. The lowest human tribe cannot survive without that alleged source of pollution: fire. It is not merely symbolic that fire was the property of the gods which Prometheus brought to man. The ecologists are the new vultures swarming to extinguish that fire."

She goes on to say,

"Environmentalists should get down on their knees before the dirtiest smokestack they can find and give thanks for the benefits that the Industrial Revolution has brought to them!"

(Give thanks to who or what, I wonder.)

Ayn Rand categorically rejected any idea of God or a Creator. In fact, she was downright hostile to the idea of religion, exceeded only in her atheistic zeal by Madeline Murray O'Hare.

So--How does the Tea Party's embracing of Ayn Rand's philosophy, despite her militant atheism, square with their "Christian" fundamentalism?

It doesn't. But they either will not, or are incapable of, acknowledging that fact.

Just like their cherry-picking of religious ideas in the Bible. They can splinter their minds and adopt only what suits them, AND totally ignore the contradictions that are obvious to any rational person who takes a good look at them.

This, in itself, is a symptom of minds that are irrational.

Don Firth

P. S.   No, GfS, Obama does not come anywhere near the level of "shittiness" that Georgie Porgie did. It was W, who will probably go down as one of the "shittiest" (to use your incisive, if juvenile term) presidents in American history. He took the budget surplus he inherited from the Clinton administration, pissed it all away, and managed to get the country into the deepest hole it's been in since the Great Depression.

The only problem with Obama is that he is not doing ALL of the things he could do to dig us out of the hole faster. Part of that problem is that the Right Wingers in Congress won't let him do what is necessary—and they're blocking his efforts out of sheer, mindless spite.

DO try to reason with your brain (if any) rather than your spleen.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 07:55 PM

Hey, maybe!    Just maybe!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Sep 11 - 08:30 PM

No, GfinS... If anything, it reinforces my feelings that these people are racists... No, we wouldn't expect that of Floridian Repubs, however, who tend to be rich white people... These folks are more just purer Repub, and less Tea Party, than the other states...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 09:32 AM

Bobert: "No, GfinS... If anything, it reinforces my feelings that these people are racists... No, we wouldn't expect that of Floridian Repubs, however, who tend to be rich white people... These folks are more just purer Repub, and less Tea Party, than the other states."


This has GOT TO BE one of the stupidest posts ever to grace the Mudcat Forum!

Maybe we should all move to Florida and be rich white folks...who vote for black people, and still be called racists!

See folks, this is exactly why political party partisanship, makes people absolutely fucking crazy!

I guess all the Democrats and independents who voted for Obama in '08, who say they won't vote for him again in 2012 all live in Florida, and are rich white racists as well!

Methinks your brain just popped its springs and the screws all fell out!...
....but who could tell?.....You're 'The Bobert'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 09:45 AM

Guess you don't know Florida like I do, GfinS... It is packed with well-to-do, white, tax-hating Republicans who have moved there to retire... That is reality... Florida's demographics isn't like any other state in the country...

This ain't about partisanship on my part... It's about reality... These people ain't up to going to town meetings a roughing other people up, or threatening to shoot people with whom they disagree or yell "hang 'um" at Palin rallies in reference to a black man...

Here's what I will bet you... Cain will not win another straw poll or primary... That will be my proof that I am indeed a student of American politics and that if you're looking for "fucking crazy" all you need to do is check out the nearest mirror...

BTW, you oughta sweep up all those loose screws around your feet... I'd hate to see one go thru the bottom of fuzzy pink slippers and you spending the day at the Urgent Care Unit but if that occurs get them to put them back in your head where they belong...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 10:50 AM

Don has the right idea in quoting Lakoff. More people should read what he has to say. "Moral Politics", "Don't Think of an Elephant", they're all easily found on search engines.

Madeleine Murray O'Hare doesn't typify the views of many atheists, today. As to the nature of what a true Christian is, this is thread creep, but to stay on subject,
the Tea Party, as Don has so rightly pointed out, is hell-bent on crude authoritarian behavior, bullying, yelling and ignoring useful facts imposing their ugly belief systems on everyone else.

Ayn Rand is a disturbed sociopathic personality reminiscent of Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, and Scott Walker which is not just ideological but behavioral.

As to the question of racism, how could this not be an issue? The stupidest thing to do is to deny it. Obama is not as destructive as Bush was but has unfortunately carried Bush's policies forward. Suskind's book gives a good insight into what went on during Obama's first years.

Obama may not be ideal president but when you compare his qualifications to Perry, Bachmann, Mitt, or W. I think the contrast is made effectively.

Obama remains an educated thinking man unlike the ignorant Three that move to the top of the Tea Party. To say otherwise is to claim membership in a fool's club.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 04:36 AM

Stringsinger: "As to the question of racism, how could this not be an issue? The stupidest thing to do is to deny it...."

Maybe that is an issue in YOUR head, that you project that everybody else must have...(ever think of that?)



Strings: "...Obama is not as destructive as Bush was but has unfortunately carried Bush's policies forward..."

Maybe he is worse, BECAUSE he has carried Bush's policies forward, plus added his own, AND neglected moving in the right direction, because of both of them! Maybe they both are part of the same destructive agenda, but to appease the unsuspecting, they appear to have differing agendas.....(ever think of that?)



Strings: "Suskind's book gives a good insight into what went on during Obama's first years."


According to whose editing, censoring, and DE-classification, and final authorization, and for what reason????...(ever think about that?)

..........
As to Bobert's: "It is packed with well-to-do, white, tax-hating Republicans who have moved there to retire... That is reality... Florida's demographics isn't like any other state in the country..."


Bobbie: "It is packed with well-to-do,...."

Something WRONG about that?

....... "white",

Something wrong about that??....

....."tax-hating"

Most people do, something wrong about that?....

...."Republicans"

Oh, in reality, they are just another stupid group, like Democrats, but neither side see it that way..(see, they're the same).

..."who have moved there to retire"

GOD FORBID!! Those nasty pesky rascals!..I bet they're too old as well, to be much of a riotous threat!..(Shit, even your ninety year old Mom said she went to one of their conventions and managed, with her walker, to escape alive!!!..It must have been quite a chaotic, violent affair, complete with mayhem galore!!!)

"That is reality"... Florida's demographics isn't like any other state in the country"

Neither is Arizona's to Oregon's!..or Colorado's to California's...or New York to Utah's...Rhode Islands to Texas......Kansas to Massachusetts....Arkansas to Alaska.....Hawaii's to New Jersey's...Tennessee's to Nevada's...and so on and so forth....

BTW, were you trying to make a point???...or just venting???

Jeez, those lib-tards get so whooped up about nothing!!!

Wait till you see whats REALLY coming down!!!

I'll pull this one up later, I assure you!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 12:01 PM

Gfs, looks like I pushed a button.

"Maybe that is an issue in YOUR head, that you project that everybody else must have...(ever think of that?)"

Actually I have examined what you say but I notice too much evidence to the contrary to deny racism; I see it in many heads.



"Maybe he is worse, BECAUSE he has carried Bush's policies forward, plus added his own, AND neglected moving in the right direction, because of both of them! Maybe they both are part of the same destructive agenda, but to appease the unsuspecting, they appear to have differing agendas.....(ever think of that?)"

I have noticed that Obama is unformed as to where he stands and is beholden to Wall Street and Harvard elites. I don't think Obama and Bush agree on everything. There is still some space between the ideologies of the two. I don't approve of Obama's war mongering, however, but he is different from Bush. I think that the DOJ should investigate Bush's war crimes. Obama is a victim of a kind of reactionary racism that takes its form in undue criticism of his policies without a rational criticism about them by white people in Congress, mainly Republican.


"According to whose editing, censoring, and DE-classification, and final authorization, and for what reason????...(ever think about that?)"

You can make an argument for or against any book or account, you are left with only your own assessment as to the veracity of the book. I don't rely on any one else's editing, censoring and de-classification as to the value of the book but I try to cross reference everything I read and come to my own conclusions.

As to the well-to-do, yes there is something wrong with them when working and middle class people are being exploited by them.

White people have had a monopoly on policy decisions in government for too long a time which is a form of racism. For example, the resistance by white politicians in Washington and the Southern States to Civil Rights for Black People and this still goes on with the machinations of Ron Paul.

As to tax hating, taxes are necessary for the functioning of civil society. They should be honored when not misappropriated for meaningless wars.

At this point, Democrats are afraid of Republicans in Congress because they are so crazy, but it is crazier to capitulate to Republicans. Wall Street sees the craziness in the Tea Party as well and if the TP's agenda were to become in effect, it would rock the Wall Street boat and they know it.

What is happening today to give a unanimity to Republican's attempt to take over the government with their authoritarian ideas is embodied in a group called ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, which is lobbying Congress and various state governors to outlaw unions, promote election fraud, become autocratic replacing democratic institutions with heavy-handed political bullying. This ALEC is financed by the Koch Brothers and Dick Armey who were responsible for the rise of the Tea Party as a pseudo-populist reactive group.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 12:46 PM

We've been over this before...matter of fact, I'm the one who first introduced 'ALEC' and exposed them into the forum!..in response to even further Bobert's bitching about the Tea Party. He didn't even know about them! (go back and check yourself..it's there!)

As to your other points, they are just argumentative and have very little logic behind them. Like most 'lib-tard' issues they are emotionally driven...and why I use 'lib-tard' over 'liberal' is because one is an idea or a set of ideas, the other is the fanatical loony side, off the deep end!

'Monopoly'?...try majority..which seems to be overlooked in this administration..(though it also applies to other administrations as well).
Taxes?...Hey you want to pay more?..Go ahead, whip out your checkbook!...As so far as misappropriating them, not just the 'unfunded' wars, but bailouts, and sleazy 'green' projects, and paying the Fed for all the interest on borrowed fiat money the are 'printing' and sending it to foreign countries, WITHOUT the consent or oversight of where its going, or what its being used for.(You'd have to scroll back into this thread to watch the actual hearings, that Congressmen were grilling the Fed's chairman, and hierarchy about that very issue, and the Fed's people stonewalled, and REFUSED to answer those questions....ABOUT SPENDING OUR MONEY, WITHOUT US BEING REPRESENTED, IN ANY WAY!!)

"At this point, Democrats are afraid of Republicans in Congress..."
Well they should be, after the abuse of both houses and the President after ramming Obama care down their throats, and circumventing due process, that had to be done with 'special deals' and waivers for cronies and votes!..especially, when the majority of the people(oh yeah, remember them?), were opposed to it, and Congress wasn't even allowed to read the fucking thing!.."So we can see what's in it"-Pelosi.
You bet, the Democrats are shaking in their boots!...Look what happened in the last mid-term elections!...and Obama's approval rating is falling like a rock...even with those who voted for him!!~!
Do I think the Tea Party is the answer?..NO!..but something was going to backlash, sooner or later, with the abuse of power by BOTH parties!
....and its going to get a lot worse, as the American public watches the soap opera antics, and gets screwed in the meantime!
Now Obama is campaigning for his jobs bill...people flat out, and across the board don't trust him, anymore!!..and you CAN'T see why?????!!!
Did he undo any of the executive mandates set forth by Bush?...NO!..Just like I said during the elections!..Why are you political partisan maniacs so blind to see that??

You want your party backed, just because of the fraudulent lies they sold you during their campaigns, and actually thought they meant ANY of it!!!...and that goes for BOTH corrupted parties!
You think Obama isn't pandering to his banker buddies, and Wall Street??...Why is Geithner there then...and he was a tax cheat..you remember those taxes you think are so much in favor by us peons...but the Secretary of the Treasury was cheating on them....you know, that crony son of a bitch from the IMF?????
Now you tell me, just WHO is delusional????????????
Strings, with all due respect..I think a lot of people of both parties are sincere, but the leadership of both of them are NOT in control, and not representing the WILL, nor the well being of the constituents....since when????

Otherwise, would we be in the fix we're in now???..and to correct it, must seem 'radical', at this point!..Again, is the Tea Party the path?..Not necessarily, but the conduct of both corrupted parties has paved a freeway to the destruction of this country!..I think you could possibly agree to that......but then, "If a man cheats you once, shame on him..If he cheats you twice, shame on you!!!"

Enough of this partisan blathering drivel, and let's get a little
real, OK?
Regards Anyway,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 01:30 PM

The Affordable Care Act was not rammed down anyone throats, GfinS... Obama went to the Republican caucus in the very beginning and asked them for their ideas and asked them to be partners in drawing up the legislation...

The Republicans, in turn, told Obama essentially to go screw himself... They said their Number One goal was to defeat him in 2012 and since then everything has been 100% about just that... The Repubs have stripped him of the tools that any responsible president needs to keep the recovery going which is $$$... Every leading economist out there says that the federal government needs to get cash into this economy... Only the flat-earth/Herbert Hoover economists think we should be decreasing the deficit in this economy... It's kinda like the person who has just lost his or her job deciding that now is the best time to pay off those credit card bills... With what???

This is really the crux of the Republican push... Strip Obama of the one tool that will create jobs and then blame it on him???

And please spare us the MythTeaology about cutting taxes and regs will create jobs... We cut taxes in 2002 and lost 8,000,000 jobs... Regs are just more MythTeaology... Obama asked the Chamber of Commerce to submit a list of regs that they thought were killing jobs and the Chamber did just that and the Obama administration has cut out some regs... But bottom line, the list wasn't all that long to begin with... So regs is just another MythTeaology boogie-man...

BTW, GfinS, if you have any ideas on how to put people back to work that deals with reality, I'd sure like to hear them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 01:59 PM

"We've been over this before...matter of fact, I'm the one who first introduced 'ALEC' and exposed them into the forum!.."

Yes, we HAVE been over this before. But you were hardly the one who "exposed then into the forum." Those of us who keep up with things have been aware of ALEC, actually, since its inception in the mid-1970s. Just another Right-Wing think-tank, most people thought. But it made it back into the news in July of this year, first by The Nation magazine, then by NPR's Terry Gross.

Sorry, GfS. You and Paul Revere have little in common (unless it's the Paul Revere that Sarah Palin had in mind).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 02:59 PM

Oh, Hell! 700!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 03:43 PM

"Strings: 'Suskind's book gives a good insight into what went on during Obama's first years.'

According to whose editing, censoring, and DE-classification, and final authorization, and for what reason????...(ever think about that?)"

GfS, why don't you actually read Susskind's book, THINK about it, and decide from a background of knowledge rather than your own shallow biases?

Ever think of that?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 04:07 PM

"Think" and "GfinS" in the same sentence, Don???

That's the problem here... There is no "think" in these Tea Partiers... They just wait for their marching orders from the Koch brothers and Dick Armey... Then they recite the very latest MythTeaology... The funny (okay, not funny, at all) thing is that it doesn't matter where you go in cyberworld, these people are all singing from the same hymnal... And bottom line, it's all Obama hate... They will use any policy, even if it's theirs that Obama puts in place, to harass, obstruct and do whatever they can to hurt this economy as their strategy to get the black guy out of their Whites Only House...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: saulgoldie
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 04:32 PM

I think Colbert nails it. "They" do not have empathy; they have ANTIpathy.


http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=193852777307956&set=a.154874971205737.34249.100000497059605&type=1&theater


Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 06:14 PM

Got that 100% correct, saul...

MythTeaology says that the poor are lazy and won't work... Reality is that in this economy there aren't enough jobs to go around... Oh yeah, there is a shortage of jobs for folks with engineering degrees but other than that field it's 9 jobs for every 10 people... That won't do... The unemployment for blacks is twice that of whites...

But the TeaSlackers want to throw Christianity around like they "Believe"... Okay, so they beleive... But what do they believe, that is the question... I mean, everyone believes lots of stuff... The TeaCrappers believe in MythTeaology...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 06:23 PM

I believe possibly that people on this thread could more easily imagine the magnitude of the Israel/Palestinian issues than most others on Mudcat. You've been living it for months.

The Paris Peace Talks went faster than this, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 07:34 PM

Yup, brucie... The Israelis and Palestinians need to get this done for both of their populations... This is unacceptable... Need to get 'er done... Yesterday!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 11:16 PM

That article by Kuhner is from over a year ago. THAT should have been pointed out. Dirty pool drags down your argument, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 11:52 PM

Guest,999, I saw that on the other thread. I doesn't exactly drag down the argument, though...it just means that this has been around a while, and nobody seems to care...they're got brain lock!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 12:20 AM

In the parlance, sh#t happens. Wasn't meaning to offend you.

FYI: Mr Google 201

Someone uses an article such as you did and maybe I want to know where it's from and when it was used. I highlit the following line using a left click/hold on the mouse. When it turns blue, I release the click thing.


President Obama has engaged in numerous high crimes and misdemeanors. The Democratic majority in Congress is in peril as Americans reject his agenda.

Then I right click and am offered the option of searching Google for any place that uses that line. BINGO.

You'll note that it was picked up by many people and used in various publications. I said over a year ago because the first site on the page that came up shows 22 July 2010.

I tend to do that when people quote things because I want to know where they got it from. (I do that for most political situations, certainly not just with your posts.)

On occasion, people have said they are quoting a song from memory but actually they have taken it from a site--usually identifiable because every piece of punctuation is exact on the site from which it was cut and pasted. That's not a big deal to me and only once did I ever call a guy on it. He had an attitude that was condescending and it pissed me off. (Was on a music thread about four or five years back.) With political threads, I like to see where folks are getting their info from.

Anyway, gi'e it a try. I'm tired and I gotta get me arse off to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 12:22 AM

OK..This one is newer: Remember I posted numerous times that Geithner, the guy from the IMF, and tax cheat, WANTS the government to spend more money, because of his ties with the banking groups that PROFIT from the loans that our government takes out, and Obama is sucking up to the bankers?..Well get a load of this...from NPR:
Another crock of flying pig droppings!!!

$200,000 per job????????????????????????????????
You Obama supporters are being fooled!...AGAIN!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 12:32 AM

GfS: I'm half way through the interview. The suspense is too much. Does he ever answer the damned question?

I gotta get. I'll finish the rest tomorrow. Have a good evening and try to stay outta trouble.
















I dream lots.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 12:51 AM

Oh, and as far as Suskind's book....

From Suskind's book......

Now check THIS OUT!!!

look who says he's in charge!

Your BOYS at work!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 12:54 AM

The skinny on Jeffery T. Kuhner:

Kuhner was born in Montreal, Canada. After teaching US history from 1998 to 2000 at McGill University in Montreal, Kuhner worked from 2000 through 2003 as an assistant national editor at the Washington Times. After leaving the Washington Times, he worked for the Republican policy group the Ripon Society as communications director and editor of the "Ripon Forum." He was the editor of the US Internet news magazine "Insight on the News" from October 2005 until its closing in May 2008.

####

The Ripon Society was founded December 12, 1962, in Cambridge, Massachusetts at Harvard College. The name is a reference to Ripon, Wisconsin, the birthplace of the Republican Party.

One of the main goals of the Ripon Society is to promote ideas and principles that have contributed to the GOP's past success. These ideas include keeping our nation secure, keeping taxes low, and having a federal government that is smaller, and more accountable to the people.

Kuhner has retired from the Washington Times and is currently hosting a conservative talk radio show.

Considering the nature of conservative talk radio show hosts, I would hardly have expected Kuhner to be glowing with praise for Obama.

Gotta do better than that, GfS.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:31 AM

It appears that someone doesn't like the 'rest of the story'!!!!


EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!
......but it won't matter to you....brain-lock to the tenth power!

OH, AND HERE'S THIS.......forgot to post it earlier

This guy is a fraud!..and con man, and is lying through his teeth. He needs to GO...and end up on trial!

GfS

P.S. How's that????

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:34 AM

It appears that someone doesn't like the 'rest of the story'!!!!


EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!
......but it won't matter to you.... (edit..edit)!


OH, AND HERE'S THIS.......forgot to post it earlier


This guy is a fraud!..and con man, and is lying through his teeth. He needs to GO...and end up on trial!

GfS

P.S. How's that????

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 02:36 AM

It appears that someone doesn't like the 'rest of the story'!!!!
So I fixed it, this time.


EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!
......but it won't matter to you.... (edit..edit)!



OH, AND HERE'S THIS.......forgot to post it earlier


This guy is a fraud!..and con man, and is lying through his teeth. He needs to GO...and end up on trial!

GfS

P.S. How's that???? (edit, edit).

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 03:32 PM

You've got a pretty bad stutter there, GoofuS!

Repeating your BS does not turn it into chateaubriand.

Don Firth (really getting bored with our resident psychopath)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:02 PM

Nice try...but you just got blown out of the water again!
Why not ask intelligent questions, instead of holding on to false assumption, and bad ideas, that formulate your fantasy political worth??
Are you afraid of learning something?...Which might cause you to be needed in the REAL cause??
You've been detoured, and done so by design...so don't feel too bad. If it were me, or anybody else, I'd feel disillusioned and betrayed!...but why shoot the messenger?
I don't make this stuff up..though sometimes it requires a little time to PROVE that where I'm coming from is sound. Don't you think I went through the same changes, too?...It broke my fucking heart....and when I got over that, the next question that popped up was "What can I do to help..without getting blown away?".....and being as I AM NOT a political animal, the effort that it takes to break through, to those who care, but are 'misinformed', and steadfast in their indoctrination, can be a monumental task, but worth it, if someone flashes!!...and I got stuff, that is true, but would blow your mind, as it does mine, and with it brings the sadness when I see masses of people who are victimized by the lies and corruption, and various other forms of deceptive abuse!
You've put up some pretty tenacious arguments, but unfortunately, you've been working under false premises....and THAT is a bummer, because of your desire to help people, but they (the politically deceptive propagandists) working through the media, keeps those who would have REAL power, from claiming it, and being truly a force!!
I'm not setting a political agenda, or cause, or preference to any party, BUT, to those gifted musicians, who want something to say, I try to give them an objectivity, to be better able to write music, and perform music, to reach the hearts and minds of those who have the presence of mind to hear....and to do that, the writer, and performers of such material need to come from a place, where their filters are clear, of the manufactured rubbish, that we've been conditioned to 'ingest'!
Once the filter is cleared, the material takes on a clarity, that reaches deep, within the listener...and allows them to compare, where they are, against what they are TOLD they 'SHOULD' be thinking!!...and luckily, the little freedoms we have left, gives room for people to think for themselves, but from within their own hearts!!!
I'm not AGAINST anyone in this forum, it might SEEM that way, but sometimes it takes a lot of crap one has to go through, just to break through!!....and in doing so, the material that comes out, will be nothing less than extraordinary!
The one good thing that comes from our endless frothing rants, is that by the time we get to the end, a HUGE span of dialogue, exhaustively put forth, SHOULD peel away some REAL nastily deceptive mental poison, that keeps ordinary musicians/writers/ singer/songwriters down, and paralyzed from going on and being GREAT!!! ...IF and unless....they pick up on the truth!

P.S...I just wish sometimes that 'certain' people on here, just had a better sense of humor, and wit. Nobody needs to be hurt...nor should an artist need to 'suffer' to press out his/her art, from their soul!

Anyway.....till you come back with another 'misconception'....(wink and a smirk....unless I beat you to it!...).
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 07:00 PM

I have no misconceptions, GfS.

But more and more (after reading your effluvial rantings) I am convinced that you ARE a misconception.

Go read a book. Learn something.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 07:18 PM

Here's the truth...

$200,000 per job is MythTeaology not based on facts...

Government backed loans that are made to private sector to expand go mostly to contractors, subcontractors, suppliers, etc., etc... and not that companies employees... In hiring those contractors, subs, suppliers, etc. two things happen... First, those people have jobs and second, the money they spend in their communities saves and/or creates other jobs which, in turn, ripples out into the economy...

I don't much care about the food-fight that is going on here... What I do care about is LIES the Tea Party and GfinS tell... That is something I can call them on... MythTeaology is 100% USDA Choice bullshit not based on reality but lies, ignorance of economics and more lies...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 07:02 AM

Bobert, Jeez, just because YOU say it is a 'myth' doesn't make it so. Geithner, who purposed, and pushed this crap, says that the $200,000 per job IS the figure, ....but it is 'worth it'......TO HIM and HIS agenda, of sucking the American people dry!
You are just to hung up in EVERYTHING that opposes these known, failed policies is a Tea Party driven evil!..This is utter nonsense, and I think you either KNOW it, or are afraid that your misplaced dedication to the 'party' is now threatened. Fact is, that it wouldn't matter what party that these scoundrels are working under...as long as they keep coming up with bullshit policies for THEIR interests, they will sell their lying reasoning to which ever party, and constituents, will buy into it, as long as they can make it APPEAR that their policies are for our own good...as long as they can find popular support, and get it out there!
Today, in the 'news'..66% of the American people DO NOT support Obama care, and want it repealed! 26 states have appealed to the Supreme Court, to have it overturned! These numbers did not originate from the Tea Party!!..So get over it! As Pelosi said, 'Let's pass this bill, so we can see what's in it"..well the bill is passed, its been read, and people are saying 'Holy shit! This thing stinks!'...and the backlash, to all those 'representatives' who passed it, WITHOUT reading it, and voted for it, because of backroom sweetheart deals is overwhelming!!...Independents have fled support for this administration, and the Democratic Party for this reason. If you are NOT aware of this, you must be living under a rock! The Tea Party gained MASSIVE support, after that bill was foisted on the American public. That is a plain and simple FACT....otherwise, you wouldn't even give a shit about the Tea Party. The Democrats brought this down on themselves...and if you haven't figured that out by now, then you are a lot denser than we ever imagined! The Koch's may throw money at supporting the party, but the Koch's are not handing out money to people to pay people to join...the reason that people are joining, is that they are pissed off at what and how our present administration is fucking over the country!...and people don't like it!...Duhhh!..and along with that, they don't particularly like the Republican Party, either! Bush fucked us over, Obama has fucked us over....and BOTH of them have done it, in the interests of the financial cronies who are pulling their strings!
If you can't come to grips with that fact, don't blame me, and slander everyone who isn't as hoodwinked as you!

As to Don, he's just left with stupid, little, meaningless insinuations, with his usual NOTHING to back it up...and the FACTS are clearly against his posturing. No big deal, as to his remarks! The cat is out of the bag, I'd suggest you two shake off your misconceptions, and see things the way they really are, and not how you want to change reality, to fit into your political vision, of wishful thinking!...and frustrated, that the facts unfolding don't fit into your illusions!

All this being said, and I DO NOT particularly agree with, or am a supporter of the Tea Party....just observing 'cause and effect'!

Peace!

GfS

P.S. You guys are racing to make you and your positions obsolete! Wise up!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM

Gentlemen, stop revising history.

I was accepted into a master's program in history after receiving my degree in education. I never did get to do the master's because on a single day in a late July about 30 years ago I received three job offers to teach. I never did the MA. My intended thesis was to do with the Vietnam War from the grunts' perspective. I recently gave over 350 books to a library, each one written about the war by people who were there as soldiers, diplomats, agents, journalists, special warfare troops, etc.

The war was a complicated thing, and the US involvement predates Kennedy by many years. The US spent a few billion dollars supporting the Vietnamese in their fight with the French. After Điện Biên Phủ and France's defeat, America began its own direct involvement. As with most history, people have views that do not always agree.

There are many many places on Mr Google to get the facts. Indeed, Kennedy was in part responsible, but to call it his war is just plain wrong.

At the time, there was real fear about a 'domino' effect in SE Asia. The US began to get a bit paranoid about the various communist governments that were starting to pop up all over the world. Please recall that the HUAC meetings--they attest to that fear, and right/wrong is not part of what I'm writing about.

I dislike it when friend or foe rewrite history to support arguments. There's enough bullshit in the world as it is and imo there's no need to add more.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but fer Krissake get a grip.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 03:45 PM

What is in peril now is Wall Street because young people have awakened. Americans are for the most part uninformed. Obama is a reflection of the ambivalence of thinking on the issues. I don't think he is intentionally defrauding the country even as he makes his rather serious mistakes.

Actually, one could argue that the US foreign policy and domestic policies are based on high crimes and misdemeanors since many Wall Streeters, Bushies and Pentagon killers are not in jail where they belong.

Fortunately, the issue is clear today. Wall Street has stolen from the tax payers and citizens of this country and the young people encamping by Wall Street know this. '"Spending cuts" are stealing from the people. The deficit only bothers those at the top because they are only worried about their own deficits.

The Tea Party doesn't want health care in any form by the government. I don't believe that 66% of Americans oppose the present health care bill but I do think that single payer is the wave of the future.

The Vietnam War was Mr. Johnson's war. He promulgated it, tried to sell it but it worked against him.

Unfortunately, Afghanistan is Mr. Obama's war. He campaigned for it.
Obama impresses me as someone who is being lead by the nose on many issues by by Wall Street and the Pentagon. The bottom line is the general denial that there are white racists in this country who want him dead because he is black. If you don't understand that, you do not understand racism in America. The chance that Herman Cain will ever reach an endorsement by the GOP is pipe dream. It'll be Romney, a white Mormon. Wall Street and Fox News want this.

The jobs bill Obama has proposed is much better than anything Bush did. The health care bill was a nod to the insurance industry which makes it less than it should have been but Bush never would have allowed that to go forward.

I think that the issues raised here about the Tea Party are being met by a real American revolution taking place in an "American Spring" and it will grow as they fade.

Tea Party is tainted by Wall Street. An astro-turf movement manufactured by the Koch Brothers and Dick Armey (what else is new?) but the New York Spring is authentic.

The message is clear. Class war being waged on the American public by Wall Street, banksters, oil speculators, dividend collectors, overpaid CEOs and both political parties have been corrupted by this.

Obama is caught in this web. He is Harvard Elite with a Wall Street background but I don't think it's that he's trying to hoodwink anyone. I don't buy that conspiracy theory.
I hope Obama may gain clarity on these issues and presidents can change when in office such as Abe Lincoln and FDR.

But the real action is on the ground in New York, soon Boston, L.A., San Francisco and this is a domino effect that is indisputable. And this is what democracy looks like.

We have to give up the "war mentality". That will have to come from the grass roots.
Wall Street plays into this since many investments are with the MIC and the young people in New York know this. Hang on to your seat belts because we are entering the American Spring.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 04:30 PM

Exactly so, 999! There is a really disgusting deliberate effort these days to re-write history for political purposes.

Case in point:   I was quite young, but awake and alert during FDR's administration. When I was a toddler, it was FDR's "New Deal," initiating programs such as the WPA and the CCC that put my father back to work. He was a professional man, licensed in the state of Washington, but we were living in California at the time. Dad was unable to practice his profession in that state, so he had to take other work, and there wasn't any! He wound up doing "pick and shovel" work on a road building crew—but it kept us eating and paying the rent! A couple of years later, he got a pretty good job working for the California Department of Agriculture (also receiving New Deal funding), and he was able to save enough so we could return to Seattle and he could go to work at his real job.

And—although there was a mini-dip in around 1937, the Great Depression was essentially over.

What FDR, with his "New Deal," had done was create jobs with his "alphabet soup agencies" and put money in the pockets of people who had to spend it right away on essentials such as food and rent, thus returning money to circulate in the economy. He also initiated a number of regulatory agencies, such as the Securities and Exchange Commission, to ride herd on Wall Street and curb the kind of hanky-panky that brought about the Great Depression in the first place.

While all this was going on, the Republicans were screaming their heads off, accusing FDR of being a "Socialist" or a "Communist" and, in general, shitting themselves down both pantlegs.

And contrary to what some people claim, FDR was trying to keep us out of the wars in Europe and Asia, but at the same time, supply aid to beleaguered countries like England and China. Japan's big bitch with the United States was that the U. S. put an embargo on our shipping war materiel to Japan, which they would then turn around and use on the Chinese (remember the "rape of Nanking?"). Japan sent a diplomatic mission to Washington, D. C., and while negotiations were going on, Japan sucker-punched us at Pearl Harbor.

I get really disgusted at the people who claim that Roosevelt got the country out of the Great Depression by starting World War II!!

World War II was well under way before the U. S. was drawn into it by being attacked.

("But FDR provoked the Japanese to attack us!" Yes, by refusing to sell them materials that they would then turn into weapons to use on China! The Japanese were kinda pissed about that.)

Other aspects of the New Deal were such things as Social Security, so people who were too old to work would not have to go to "poor houses" or "poor farms" (there were such things!) and could live out their lives with a measure of security.

The Republicans have been gnashing their teeth over the New Deal all this time. And Reagan was one of the first to start systematically dismantling it by doing such things as appointing Wall Street wonks to the SEC and people from the pharmaceutical companies to the Food and Drug Administration. Systematically, as the cliché has it, by "putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop." And Bush started a move to "privatize" Social Security" so the Wall Street bunch could get their meat-hooks onto it.

What the country needs right now is someone like FDR. He may have been in a wheelchair from polio, but he had more backbone that a whole regiment of the current sorry batch of Democrats.

I had high hopes of Obama, but—

(Just read Stringsinger's post before posting this, and he's got the right of it.)

If I were younger, I would move to one of the more civilized countries. Probably one on of the Scandinavian countries. They have all this stuff sorted out, and lo! it works! No extremely rich, no one is living in poverty, excellent single-payer health care for all, universal education, the elderly can live out their years in security and comfort--and the Vikings are long gone! They are not trying to plunder and dominate the rest of the world like some countries I could name. And on a "happiness and contentment" index of the citizenry, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark are right at the top of the list.

"Oh, but they're Socialist!!"

Oh, really? Well that's a helluva lot better than our current direction:   we're hurtling toward Corporate Feudalism.

(Grump! Snarl! Growl! Hiss!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 04:56 PM

"we're hurtling toward Corporate Feudalism."

Truer words were never spoke, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:47 PM

You didn't offend me, brucie... I stated that Ike was the guy who sent the advisers... Hey, that's how stuff starts... And given the French defeat in '53 (was it) the US should have known that things might turn out poorly... Then to be implicated in the assassination of Diem we were going to be in for slobber-knocker...

Here's the part that I hate hearing... I mean, well meaning people saying that we should have stayed there and "gotten the job done"... This job was un-doable... Period...

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 06:21 PM

It was 1954, but that aside, the one politician who ever nailed how to 'win' that war was Barry Goldwater. His solution was unacceptable: NUKE HANOI!

You are one of my few good friends here, and the last thing I would wish to do is offend you. Hell, I know where your heart's at.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 07:13 PM

There is no assurance that nuking Hanoi would have ended the civil war in the south... The Viet Cong weren't from up north... I heard it differently... Nuke everything and pave over it... Yeah, I guess that would have been a military victory though that isn't even assured as lots of folks would have holed up in Laos and Cambodia and lived by Ho Chi Minh's advice that "he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day...

In other words??? There was no victory to be had...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 02:50 AM

"In May 1963, he caused an international uproar when he suggested on an ABC-TV "Issues and Answers" program that "defoliation of the forests by low-yield atomic weapons could well be done" to expose the supply routes for the flow of arms from North Vietnam to the Viet Cong guerrillas in South Vietnam.

Mr. Goldwater and his supporters argued strenuously that the senator had never suggested that atomic weapons actually be used, but the remark only provided fuel for his critics who contended the next year that electing Mr. Goldwater president could only increase the likelihood of a nuclear disaster."

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 10:05 AM

Don't have shit to do with the Tea Party but it does reinforce Bobert's blowhardness.

He seems to think that the longer he can keep a thread going the more he can invent his own facts.

Where is the Lake Pontchartrain dam at Bobert? Can't your computer find it? You told me your computer learns to find what you want.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:06 PM

I see they have got internet at the state wacko ward...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 03:06 PM

Back to the Tea Party for a moment, and some of their numbers carrying firearms to political rallies and such, waving them around, and yelling brilliant slogans like, "Don't retreat! Reload!"

Heard a new word recently that pretty well describes them:

"Rethuglicans."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:42 PM

Works for me, Don... No matter, they are some very boorish and eat-up ignorant people... Their owners, Koch & Armey, are as well...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:46 AM

Sigh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 08:45 AM

Good answer, GFinS...

B

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 08:16 PM

The so-called "class warfare" is being waged by the Tea Party via Koch Brothers and other oligarchs. The only systemic change that can occur in the economy is the elimination of the so-called "free trade". The first is exploitation of the working and middle class by oligarchs. The second is transnational corporations renouncing their allegiance to America for profit.

The Tea Party is confused because they don't recognized the master they serve.
They are reactionary puppets on strings. If they would ever wake up and enjoin
Occupy Wall Street then we could pull the plug on the bloated CEOs, banksters,
energy robbers and the MIC. As it is, we may not need them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 08:51 PM

Right on both points, Strings...

The Tea Party people are complete dupes fighting to degrade their own standards of living... Ignornat, very ignorant people... Every policy position they push will hurt them in the end and then they will cry "Why didn't anyone tell us???", "Someone should do something about this" but by the time they get it it will be too late for them... They will have beaten their own selves into the ground...

And yeah... You and I know what is going on in New York but corporate BIG MEDIA is keeping this story under the carpet... And they are going to do everything in their power to keep it there... They don't want America, especially their Tea Party dupes, from getting wind of what is going on...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 09:15 PM

"Right on both points, Strings."

Actually ,"Right OFF"

When you hear the president talk about 'the rich'..what do you think that is?..the Tea Party talkin'? When you hear about the administration talking about illegal aliens, and giving them benefits, as if they were citizens..is that the Tea Party talkin'?
When you hear those same bozos talking about bailouts for the rich corporations, but leaving us to twist in the wind..is that the Tea party talkin' about class warfare?
When you hear them talkin' about waivers for 'certain people'(read: privileged by the administration for political favors), is that the Tea Party talkin' about 'class'?
Shit, It's about time some of these clowns showed some class!

Somehow, you two are so twisted around..you call good bad, bad good, 'corporate favoritism', something other than what this Democratic administration has been getting away with. No, pals, the Dems ain't what you thought they were! They have been bought and paid for, by the very same people, and/or types of people that you say the Republicans and the Tea Party are about!..Mind you, I'm not either one of those two myself.
So you can agree with each other all you want, pat each other on the back, and think that you're doing great.....but you, in reality are just keeping each other down....and out!

At this point, it is near impossible to have compassion for your fellow man, and or the well-being of our country, and support the very people who are ripping us apart!
If this isn't patently obvious to you, by now, then just let me know how many pigs are in the next flock that fly over...going north for the winter!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 10:09 PM

This guy is very much likened to an indoctrinated partisan, trying to be turned on to the truth: Try to touch his nose, with your cursor! (or in your case, the truth!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 10:22 PM

Fine, GfinS... If that's what you believe how in the hell can you advocate doing away with the Fed, who is our defense against China manipulating their currency and causing more unemployment here in the USA??? How can you talk about throwing out all the "illegals", who for decades have picked our crops??? There are farmers throughout the south scared shitless that ya'll are going to make it so hard to get crops in that they will have to shut down farms... How can yo support a man who wants to end income tax and who supports unfettered access to the middle classes' posterior??? Why would you support 50% poverty in this country... That's what Ron Paul will give you...

I mean, you don't understand much, do you??? Have you ever taken a college course in economics??? Did you pas it??? I doubt it...

Tell you what... Over the course of low taxes, no regs the US has dropped in every good category... Math in 1982-1st, math in 2010-21st... Infant mortaility (not related to abortion), 1st in 1982, 28th now... I could go on and on and on and...

Face it, your model sucks!!!

We ain't buying all your BS policy position because the Bush administration bailed out the banks... Yeah, that could have been done better but the alternative was worse... Now they are stabilized it's time to get off Obama's ass for putting in place the few things that the Republicans would let "get thru" to regulated Wall Street trading scams... Don't put this on Obama... Put it where it belongs...

In other words, punish the crooks and not the messenger...

You need to do some serious rethinking 'cause you flatly don't make much sense...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 10:59 PM

Boobert: "..How can you talk about throwing out all the "illegals", who for decades have picked our crops???"

How about them coming in legally with work visa?

Bobert: "How can you talk about throwing out all the "illegals", who for decades have picked our crops??? There are farmers throughout the south scared shitless that ya'll are going to make it so hard to get crops in that they will have to shut down farms... How can yo support a man who wants to end income tax and who supports unfettered access to the middle classes' posterior??? Why would you support 50% poverty in this country... That's what Ron Paul will give you."

Ron Paul????? Try Obama !!

Boobert: "Face it, your model sucks!!!"

I didn't throw them out...YOUR GUY DID!..."Face it, your model sucks!!!"

Boobert: "You need to do some serious rethinking 'cause you flatly don't make much sense...

Like I said YOU guys are the ones who are turned around!....(just a post or two ago!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 11:05 PM

This one is from the 'other' thread..but:

Boobert: "Time for all good Americans to quit the ballgames and call the Tea Party for what they are doing: trying to destroy America by blaming the wrong folks for the wrong stuff..."

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET YOU TO DO!!!!....(or 'not' do)!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 11:06 PM

This one is from the 'other' thread..but:

Boobert: "Time for all good Americans to quit the ballgames and call the Tea Party for what they are doing: trying to destroy America by blaming the wrong folks for the wrong stuff..."

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET YOU TO DO!!!!....(or 'not' do)!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 11:14 PM

. . . Pathetic!!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 11:24 PM

I know......but I didn't have the time to find a flying dog, that was crashing and burning......wanna' volunteer?
Wink,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 12:30 AM

Sorry. Since I don't really have sufficient time to devote to the monumental task of your education, I hardly have time to rustle up toys for you as well.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 01:28 AM

See?....You think just because you have toys, and won't share them, that everybody wants toys!...BUT, if you found a piece of music that you REALLY think is an 'inspired' piece...I'd be interested.
It's really too bad that we all couldn't have an 'open mike' thingy on here..I got some stuff that might make you think!..Wait a minute!..This is Don, right?..
..Oh what the hell, thinking with your heart, and mind in unison might be fun for ya'!

Open mike?...great idea. I've heard that they use to do it on here, I think.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 06:41 PM

Ahhhhh, yo GfinS... You pay attention to the news??? The repubs have poisoned the immigration discussion and won't allow any reform...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:15 PM

The wacko ward is where folks believe there is a lake Pontchartrain dam, Obama bought his campaign airplane and the West Bank is the most densely populated place on earth.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:49 PM

Bobert: "Ahhhhh, yo GfinS... You pay attention to the news??? The repubs have poisoned the immigration discussion and won't allow any reform..."

I didn't know harry Reid was a Republican:

I didn't know Harry Reid was a Republican!....or just on both sides Depending on who is greasing him..Huh?

GfS