BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:41 PM

bb,

You obviously have never worked in a political campaign... Of course they require offices... John McCain has hundred of offices across the country... Obama has at least twice that many... There is rent, and electricity and phones and copying, etc... That's what happens in campaign offices, be them McCain's or Obama's...

Obama has chosen to spend more money on offices and less on advertising porportionate to McCain... McCain is going the other route with more porportionately to what he has to spend on advertising at the espense of offices... Just different choices and strategies...

But it is a misleading statement to say that Obama is spending more than McCain becuase to most casual readers one would think advertising and not take into account other expenses, such as offices and even staff...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:30 PM

From Newsweek:

"...Gov. Sarah Palin is suing the Bush administration on behalf of the state of Alaska to overturn the decision to add polar bears to the endangered-species list.

The Bushies are hardly radical environmentalists. It's Palin who is on the far right of the ideological axis that governs so much of our political debate. At the same time, she is a political natural, skewering the opposition with a down-home smile. Amidst the electricity she generated in St. Paul, it seems churlish to raise such pesky issues as her belief that global warming is not man-made and her opposition to abortion without exception for rape and incest. The Obama campaign better hurry up and draw the contrast before America falls in love with the hockey mom.

As someone who has written extensively about women in politics, I'm glad the Republican Party picked a woman. It gives John McCain the second look he might not have gotten, and I'll bet Barack Obama can now better understand how Hillary Clinton felt during the primaries. After Democrats congratulated themselves for supporting a black man as their nominee, Palin came from nowhere to crash the party. Her candidacy is pitched to our celebrity culture, and before the week was out, there she was on the cover of People, Us, OK and the National Enquirer.

Palin has a compelling life story, but she is in no sense ready to assume the presidency. Karl Rove admitted as much this week when he said putting Palin on the ticket is a political choice, not a governing choice. The fascination with all the elements of her story—special-needs baby, pregnant teenage daughter, snowmobiling husband—don't change the fact that she is the most thinly credentialed vice presidential contender since Dan (potato with an "e") Quayle, who was put on the ticket in '88 because the old guard thought a good-looking first-term senator could attract young voters.

First impressions count, and Quayle never recovered from the deer-in-the-headlights look he displayed in his first encounter with the national press over his draft records. Palin is no Quayle. She is much harder-edged and ideological, more like Marilyn Quayle whose speech at the 1992 Republican convention denouncing feminism and extolling traditional motherhood helped lose the race for the GOP. Feminists helped pave the way for women to work outside the home—as Governor Palin does. With economic pressures making it essential for most women to work, the debate quieted.

That's a debate the McCain campaign would love to have, but it's not one that the Democrats are inciting. After championing the right of women to make the widest possible career and family choices, Democrats aren't about to cede that mantle to the party that was against modern values before they were for them. Women of all political stripes are talking among themselves about the challenges Palin faces, and what they would do if they were in her shoes, but it's not a partisan debate. It's individual, and it's personal, and it has to do with knowing how hard the juggling act is wherever you are on the ideological scale. It's comical to watch the male commentators on television huffing and puffing over the double standard applied to women, as if they've discovered something new.

..."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Greg B
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:56 PM

The Republican party is fundamentally a misogynist organization;
their policies and attitudes towards meeting women's real needs
bear that out.

That's why I used misogynistic language to describe what they
are doing, and how these guys think. (And I'd be willing to wager
that language was used by some of the Republican power-brokers behind
closed doors.)

Now they've managed to dredge up a woman who is herself a misogynist,
and who also has at least marginal paper qualifications to enter the
race (she's a governor). Of course the reasons her qualifications are
so marginal and subject to debate is that it is rather hard to find a
qualified woman who'll support the anti-woman platform to an even
greater degree than John McCain, who is viewed by many of the party
faithful as "too liberal."

I mean you just don't get that combination of barefoot and pregnant
and a governor or member of Congress coming around that often.

So far she's turning out to be a good soldier/puppet. First she
was 'seen and not heard' and when she WAS heard she faithfully
recited the words written for her by the men who are packaging
her up to get out the Evangelical and Catholic vote.

That she represents the kind of person who needs a voice in DC
is just what her handlers would have you believe. But in fact
she's a sham, because her stances on the issues indicate that she
either has forgotten, or doesn't care, where she came from.

Look at her attempting to trade on her 'special needs' child!
Why would she wait until NOW to be 'a friend' to parents of
such children, as she put it? Perhaps because it, and by inference
now, even the CHILD suits her purpose?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:45 PM

"and finally as governor of Alaska, she has opposed sex education in the schools—something that her daughter and future son-in-law clearly could have used. "

Her daughter and future son-in-law (I'm sure)were quite knowledgeable on how babies are made ... the problem is not education, the problem lies elsewhere beyond the scope of 'sex education'.

Take note of what Obama said ... his mother was 18 years old when he was born.

In regards to "funds for a program to support teen moms" .... 'a program' ... are there other programs besides this 'a program' in Alaska to help single teen moms?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:07 PM

Bobert,

Offices that do what??? I thought they were were the campaign was being run from?

Offices, offices, offices hoping that will make up for his lack of grassroots appeal to independents.



just my opinion...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:26 AM

Dave Lindorff, Baltimore Chronicle, remarks:

"...What Palin didn't tell convention-goers or the national viewing audience was that as governor she cut the funds for a program in the state to support single teen mothers and that as a PTA member, mayor and finally as governor of Alaska, she has opposed sex education in the schools—something that her daughter and future son-in-law clearly could have used. Less advantaged single mothers in Alaska and, should she be elected, in the rest of America, will not have a friend in Blair House. She also failed to mention that McCain has voted against funding of teen pregnancy prevention programs in Congress.

Palin continued, in her acceptance speech, to spout another lie which she had already been making in her first days on the stump since being picked by McCain as his choice for running mate: that she had said "No thank you" to the $439-million "Bridge to Nowhere" which, as perhaps the biggest single earmark in a year of record earmarks last year had become a national joke line. The truth: Palin backed that bridge, and was even ready to add state funding to get it built, until it became a national joke. Then she thought better, and killed the bridge, while still taking the money, which the state's senior senator, Ted Stevens (now under indictment for taking bribes from contractors), had earmarked.

Palin went on to lie about her opponent, Barack Obama's, tax plan, saying it would raise taxes on businesses and on all Americans. In fact, Obama's plan calls for lowering the corporate profits tax, while increasing the tax on dividends and capital gains, both of which fall not on businesses but on investors, and for lowering taxes on most Americans, while raising them for people earning over $250,000.

John McCain likes to ride around in a bus he dubs the "Straight-Talk Express."

..."

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM

A steady stream of hate propaganda shapes people's beliefs and their actions. It makes them bomb buses, crash planes into buildings, blow themselves up in markets, shoot people, ethnic cleanse, start wars... the problem is the hateful beliefs that motivate people to destroy others.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:21 AM

OF course the problem is with that one guy, fundamentally.

But as the old joke about the tailor says, "Look who got him dizzy first."

Rush Limbaugh is a stain on AMerica's underwear.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:15 AM

It's hard to avoid hearing these people from time to time, and we certainly here of them. But one guy goes nuts and shoots Unitarians. It seems like the problem lies with that one guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:06 AM

Most people in the US know what 'talk radio' and Rush Limbaugh are about. For those of you who are outside the US looking in, the AM radio dial here is dominated by a chain of stations owned by Clear Channel.
The stations, for the most part, broadcast a steady stream of hatred of liberals, feminists (whom Limbaugh calls feminazis), environmentalists, Democrats... all you have to do is listen to some of Rush Limbaugh to get the idea.
You can hear it on the internet at
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html

There are many people who listen to this on a daily basis, getting only this type of broadcasting as their main "news source". The Limbaugh listeners pride themselves in being "ditto heads".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Channel_Communications

Recently, a man attacked a Unitarian Church, shooting nine people, killing two of them.
'''Police in Knoxville were quoted as saying that the man, later identified as Jim D. Adkisson, 58, targeted the church "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that ... the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets."
Might the shooter have heard talk-show host Rush Limbaugh say that "liberalism is the greatest threat this country faces" and "the Islamofascists are actually campaigning for the election of Democrats"
===
article, "Does shock jock hate speech lead to violence?" Shock Jock refers to the radio disc jockeys like Limbaugh who speak "shock" extremism.

quote from article "When I asked Rory O'Connor, author of a study of shock jocks and hate speech, for his take on the shootings, he replied, "Sure, these guys hold some responsibility for what happened, but we all hold responsibility - particularly anyone who hasn't stood up and spoken out against hate speech. We're all contributing to the climate where people are being dehumanized because of their beliefs."
Full article at Newsday.com

click here

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:40 AM

The September 3 Jon Stewart show had a wonderful contrast. A clip from Bill O'Reilly arguing that Palin's daughter's situation is a private affair, followed by another clip when what's-her-name's sister got pregnant blasting the parents as negligent pinheads.

So it's a matter of conveninece who gets judged on what.

Me, I'm more even-handed. I think Bill O'Reilly is a pinhead all the time.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:35 AM

All you have to do is go to www.snopes.com or turn on 'talk' radio (Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, etc.) and see how much Obama has been attacked with hate and lies as long as he has been campaigning. The personal attacks on any of the candidates is wrong, but the balance has been FAR, FAR greater against Obama and Clinton than Palin or McCain. Like I said, personal attacks are wrong, but the Republican attack machine was well set up years ago with talk radio and the hate machines that pump out chains of emails with lies about the Democrats, especially about Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:18 AM

I like that, biLL... "Fringe propagnda"... Has a nice ring to it...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:01 AM

Obama is not in the attack mode ... it's all those Dem blogs, press, dem fanatics in forums (such as here). I guess you can label this kind of stuff as the "fringe propaganda".

biLL    :)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM

Ahhhhh, for the record, I haven't seen where the Dems or Obama have "attacked" either McCain or Palin...

If anyone knows where this is being done, please feel free to share this with us...

No, this is yet another McCain/Repub lie... Obama is out there talking policy and not getting in the gutter with tghe Repubs... Yet a lot of people think it's okay to spread the BIG LIE that Obama is in the attack mode...

This is more Repub propaganda that isn't beased on truth...

McCain thinks he can use propaganda all the way to the White House and I'm not saying he can't... George Bush certainly did it in '04 but there is a risk on his part that this strategey will be seen for what it is and should that occur then it comes down to whether or not the American people want to be lied to for another 4 years...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:40 AM

Who knows ... the child of that 17yr old daughter could grow up to be a (Democrat) president of the United States.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:21 AM

"I have not seen any negative press on her daughter's pregnancy."

The Republican right is actually appearing quite liberal in its reaction to Palin's teenaged daughter being pregnant and unmarried. A more typical reaction would be to stone her and her mother, but that may only apply to Democratic liberals whose teenaged daughters get pregnant. I mean, can't you imagine the headlines that would flash across the country if Chelsea had gotten pregnant: "WHERE WAS HER MOTHER? WHERE WAS HER FATHER!"

Sure, the Republicans appear hypocritical here but I suppose they may have learned to be more open-minded with regard to teenaged pregnancy, just so long as the teenager or her mother is not on welfare.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:07 AM

Well, close!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM

800!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:06 AM

"'As long as anybody who takes that approach is happy with "let the market take care of it" as a solution to all problems--and just fine with the continuing breakdown of the church/state division.'"


                   Yes, I would agree, except if candidate wishes to take a pro-active course that would make things worse than just letting market forces take over.
                   And Oh Bummer abandoned any hope many of us had of perserving the division of church and state when he proubly announced that he intended to keep the office of "faith based initiatives" open, if elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:49 AM

I think it is rather interesting that maybe, just maybe the future president of the United States is a wife of a fisherman, and oil field worker (card carrying member of the United Steel workers), a mother of 5 (with one special needs child, the other a teenage mother to be, and a 19 yr. old son soon to be deployed to Iraq). In some ways she some ways she looks very much lke the people who have been desperately needing a voice for them in Washington.

This was a brilliant move by the Republican party in choosing her. The more the Obama crowd attacks her, the stronger her appeal becomes. And by the looks of things their strategy is working.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:15 AM

Outside of the tabloid press and Mudcat I have not seen any negative press on her daughter's pregnancy.Just reporting it does not make it a negative comment. What am I missing? Where are there negative reports?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:15 AM

Well, even if Palin is a "token" woman, she is probably John McCain's best choice becuase she comes with no regocnition and is a new face... That, in itself, was a good move... But...

...she was a new face yesterday, she's an old face now (co-opted form an old Jethro Tull song "New Day Yesterday") and that like McCain there will come a time when each of them will have to come out of their mortan lobing bunkers and face the music... There is a reason that McCain doesn't want her to do press conferences or interact with anyone other than the Koolaiders...

The debates are going to be the crux of this campaign... All the McCain/Palin grenades in the world can't and won't change that...

Yes, I know that their strategy will be the old rope-a-dope in the debates as they try to run out the clock but they can run from the hard questions only but so long before one lands and neither of them is ready to answer any hard questions... That is why all those so-called "town meetings" that McCain has been doing have been scripted, al la George Bush...

But the day of reckoning is out there for both McCain and Palin and when it gets here the American people will finally get to see the real product...Right now it's like a shiney new car... Problem is that it doesn't have an engine under the hood... All shine and no motor...

That's the way I see it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:00 AM

"normally never support a Republican candidate..." Right.   As long as anybody who takes that approach is happy with "let the market take care of it" as a solution to all problems--and just fine with the continuing breakdown of the church/state division. Somebody who plans on voting for McCain/Palin should--finally--- do some research on McCain's and Palin's views on this--and realize, contrary, to his fondly-held delusions, that there is a huge difference between their attitudes and those of Obama and Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:52 AM

"Obama is spending twice as much as McCain"...

Misleading... Actually, Obama has more offices than McCain which accounts for the expenses... McCain, I read recently, outspent Obama in August on TV commercials... But that's the McCain strategy... Media, media, media hoping that will make up for his lack of grassroots organizing...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:45 AM

Absolutely, attacking Palin personally will help her and McCain. That's why Greg R etc. are doing Obama no good with their descriptions of Palin--and why I've been appealing for no more smears--on any side of the political spectrum--and recognition of the fact that Palin has in fact attacked corruption in the AK Republican party. It should certainly be obvious, as I noted earlier, that Palin's appeal should not be underestimated.

Now comes more evidence that the Democrats have to stop personal attacks on Palin--and stupid addiction to wild-eyed theories like Scheunemann being behind the August 2008 attempt by Georgia to drag its restive provinces back into the fold.

Big headline in the WSJ today: McCain Vows End To 'Rancor', Betting On Maverick Appeal

Gee I wonder if that has anything to do that he now has the perfect attack dog in Palin. And "attack dog" is no personal smear--it's just the typical VP role these days.

And for people who don't think clearly, "end to rancor" is a very seductive appeal for him.

Irony is: McCain/Palin are still very vulnerable on the issues.

On both the economy and health care--the number 1 and 2 issues for the US these days, McCain/Palin's only solution boils down to: "let the market take care of it".   In Iraq, they both think "victory" is within the US' grasp. Ignoring the fact that Iraq is still likely to break up--the Kurds want no part of it. Roe v Wade--it should be obvious what danger that will be in if McCain/Palin are elected.

No more time--but there are other issues on which Obama/Biden are on the right side--and McCain/Palin would still lead the US down the wrong path.

Obama himself appeals to his supporters to stick to the issues--for good reason--that's the way to win.

And it still can happen. If Obama gets the huge majority of registered Democrats, McCain the huge majority of Republicans, and they split the independents, it's no contest--McCain has no chance.

So let's simmer down, and go back to discussing the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:10 AM

'Over half of U.S. voters (51%) think reporters are trying to hurt Sarah Palin with their news coverage, and 24% say those stories make them more likely to vote for Republican presidential candidate John McCain in November. ...

Since McCain announced Palin as his running mate on Friday, she has been subjected to an unprecedented wave of negative media stories, many focused on her personal life and especially the pregnancy of her unmarried 17-year-old daughter. The focus of the coverage, especially in the blogosphere, has even prompted Obama to distance himself from it.

Eighty percent (80%) of Republicans say reporters are trying to hurt the GOP vice presidential nominee, and 28% of Democrats agree

Among unaffiliated voters, 49% say reporters are trying to hurt Palin, while 32% say their coverage is unbiased. Only five percent (5%) say reporters are trying to help her.

Most Republicans and unaffiliated voters say the stories show the media's double standard against women'

from a national survey of 1,000 Likely Voters conducted by Rasmussen Reports on September 3, 2008.
The margin of sampling error for each survey is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Lox
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:34 AM

Entertaining link

I thought so anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:36 AM

I wish this bloody awful US election was over, it dominates the airwaves, the same old crap, McPain finishes his speech with the usual cringworthy rubbish, I wish they would all disappear.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: mg
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:13 AM

No one needs to, or in my opinion, has a moral right to, refer to her private parts other than her doctor or her husband or perhaps her close confidants. That is not us. I think it is sexual harrassement to flippantly talk about this. It is hers. It is not ours to discuss. If that privacy is taken away from someone, what hope is there for the rest of us...when every creep in the world..and I do find some of you here creepy..can comment on what from time immemorial has been kept private and covered. It is nobody's business. Talk about her policies or her lack of accomplishments or her shady dealings or whatever but leave her most personal anatomy out of this. Same goes for Obama or Clinton or anyone. This is really serious. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:10 AM

Barry, I'll vote for you, too!!

I am quite proud of the fact, btw, fellah, that Obama never accepted one cent of PAC money.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:44 PM

Thanks Dani, you & Bill make 2.

We can discuss my campain promises in secret at the Getaway.

See you there

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:03 PM

Yes, he has energized his base - and - what's more, as the lefties heap disdain upon her - she becomes the gift that keeps on giving.

The only appropriate Democratic strategy is to ignore her to the extent possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:57 PM

"As usual, we will get the best President that money can buy..."


               Yeah, Bruce, that's what happened in the primary as well. Now we hear what a terrible campaign Hillary ran, when the only thing that mattered was money.
               That's why we have Obama, and that's why some of us who would normally never support a Republican candidate will support McCain. He, to his never ending credit, opted for public financing.
Obama reneged.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:53 PM

Obviously, what will determine the election is how many Hillary voters are really Hillary voters--and not just dittoheads.

If Obama gets the vast majority of Hillary voters--since her positions dovetail almost perfectly with his--and emphatically not with the McCain/Palin ticket--he will win. The large majority of her voters--including of course, Hispanics and most working women, combined with the Obama voters--huge numbers of young people, blacks, anybody interested in preserving Roe v Wade, and intelligent people of all backgrounds should be a substantial majority of the electorate.

The corollary of course is that Hillary voters who in fact vote for McCain/ Palin in the fall were not really Hillary voters in the first place. How many of the voters in WV or rural PA, for instance, who voted for her in the primary would have voted for her in the fall against McCain? So much for the "18 million" claim.

And how many fall in that category? Who knows? But that will tell the tale.

Especially since with Palin, McCain has--finally--energized his base.

But that should make the Hillary voters realize--do they actually believe in her stands--or was she--as Obama is accused of being--just a personality cult?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:28 PM

Obama has been spending about twice what McCain has.


As usual, we will get the best President that money can buy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:28 PM

I would hope that you know the speech that Palin gave was written by GWB's favorite speech writer.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:24 PM

From a Newsweek blog:

Amount raised by the John McCain campaign in the two-and-a-half days after Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin joined the ticket: $10 million.

Amount raised by the Barack Obama campaign in the 24 hours after Palin delivered her speech at the 2008 Republican Convention: $10 million.
Advertisement

Uniting both parties' bases in one fell swoop (or, er, woman): Priceless.

Although, it must be noted: Obama's post-Palin fundraising rate ($416,666 per hour) is more than twice as fast as McCain's ($166,666 per hour). Talk about reaching across the aisle.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:21 PM

Good article in Newsweek re' the RNC and facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:08 PM

12:16 AM 4 Sept 2008:   "Evidence and documentation, please".   Certainly a reasonable request--now where have I heard that request before? I have to say I'm flattered--"Imitation is...."

But then, later on the same night, the same request. Uh, some of us actually need to sleep more than 4 hours to function the next day at work. (And some can't post from work). My hat's off to you if you don't need sleep--or maybe I'm sorry for you--that your addiction to battling fellow Mudcatters won't let you sleep.

At any rate, try this.

Documentary evidence of Sarah's fighting against corruption in the AK Republican party?

Waaal Lesseeee here. Maybe you'd like to start by actually reading this very thread. To save you time, try the 29 Aug 2008 12:09 PM post by Ed T---his link to the National Journal-Almanac.

Of course it's hard to know what a person whose profession is hard-bitten cynicism might consider as an objective source. This one seems pretty objective to me. But if you disagree, please tell us exactly why.

Without further ado:



From the National Journal:   "As the commission's chairwoman and designated ethics officer, Palin spearheaded the investigation that ultimately prompted Ruedrich to resign from the commission".

Further down: " Palin also joined with Democratic State Representative Eric Craft to file an ethics complaint against Alaska Attorney Greg Renkes, who had close political ties to Governor Frank Murkowski. The complaint alleged that Renkes' ownership of a coal company represented a conflict of interest".

You're welcome to peruse the whole article if you don't like my excerpts.   It doesn't change the conclusion--she did in fact fight corruption in the Alaska Republican party.

Her motive? Hard to say. I'm sure ambition was part of it. But the fact remains she did help to cause the removal from office of some corrupt Republicans.

As I've said before, she is dead wrong on virtually every issue. But humans are complex creatures. And she has done some good--in helping to purge her own party.

Sorry she doesn't fit the cartoon of her fondly held by some Mudcatters.

He who has eyes to see...

Unless of course the poster is more along the lines of "Nowhere Man"--"Just sees what he wants to see..."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM

The Hillary PUMA crowd was insulted by the choice; I doubt many of them are assuaged by the speech. Why?? Because the difference between a genuine politically savvy policy wonk like Hillary (whom I have forgiven her sins, BTW) and the RNC spear-carrier act recited by the lovely Ms Palin are palpable, is the difference between a thinking woman and a female androidette.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:51 PM

I have to say I agree with Greg, though I might not put it in those terms. I've said as much regardless. The asterisks are fine, imo and it is a horrifying thing to contemplate what they are doing and that she is falling for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:35 PM

Just when you thought it couldn't sink any lower!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Greg B
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:33 PM

Sir Charles:

I stand by it.

Not my words, but theirs. Or not their words, but their
thoughts, as I see it.

As I said, I detest the word, as applied politically.

But I truly believe that the RNC is thinking of Ms. Palin in those
terms and is objectifying her as such.

And you'll note the asterisks. I just can't bring myself to
utter it.

They're using her.

Hence the term.

But I'm glad you're horrified.

Kind of sums up how horrific a decision it is; and how shallow.

That isn't all she is to me; no woman is. But sadly, I think it
is what she is to the RNC who are packaging her up.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:25 PM

Greg B-

I usually find your postings of interest but I think you should ask the moderators to delete the last sentence in your post as extremely offensive:

I really hate the word, but I can't help believe that she's nothing
more than the RNC's "token c**t."

I could PM you but I thought I'd post this thought in the public forum and I would hope that the moderators would delete my post as well.

Anyone else want to be obscene and abusive?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Greg B
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:07 PM

Palin's speech? PALIN'S SPEECH?

Give me a break.

Ever since her nomination (or 'annointing'), she's been in seclusion.

Not allowed to take any spontaneous questions or speak for herself.

Hmmmmmm....

Bought, paid-for, packaged and so on by the RNC.

Filling in the VP attack-dog space so well executed by our present
VP. With the added benefit of a vagina, for those who might be
taken in by the latter.

She didn't write that speech. She delivered it, as instructed, as
their 'robo-candidate.' Not an original idea in the whole thing.

"Hey, little town mayor rose to state Governor, want to rise to
#2 office in the USofA? Well, c'mon, shut the f*** up, play the
game, do as your told, get your kids to take down their MySpace
pages and give yourself over to the same marketeers who made
Ronnie Reagon over from a stupid Hollywood dolt into a viable
candidate, and take the ride from your double-wide."

Meanwhile (according to NPR) the RNC has sent their minions into
Alaska to "manage" the press's research and questions about Ms.
(or should we say Mrs.) Palin. Just to make sure they get the
"right" answers from the locals.

I really hate the word, but I can't help believe that she's nothing
more than the RNC's "token c**t."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 08:36 PM

Centrists don't start wars of choice, Rigs... Ike, if he were alove, would never, ver have invaded Iraq... You need to go back and study your history... You have McCain confused with the other bald guy, Nakita Khrusshchev... Remember him??? The shoe banger... Well, that is who came to my mind when McCain went into his we are all Georgian histronics... The shoe banger...

Go ahead and vote for McCain, Rigs, but if he gets elected and has the US lose the next Cold War, which it very well might, don't say you weren't warned... McCain is a hot head at a time when we need a ***thoughtfull*** leader...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 08:35 PM

"Palin recently said that the war in Iraq is "God's task." She's even admitted she hasn't thought about the war much—just last year she was quoted saying, "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." 1, 2

Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party. Six months ago, Palin told members of the group—who advocate for a vote on secession from the union—to "keep up the good work" and "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.'" 3

Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools. She hasn't made clear whether she thinks evolution is a fact.4

Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade." 5

Palin has close ties to Big Oil. Her inauguration was even sponsored by BP. 6

Palin is extremely anti-choice. She doesn't even support abortion in the case of rape or incest. 7

Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools. She's said she will only support abstinence-only approaches. 8

As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library. Palin asked the library how she might go about banning books because some had inappropriate language in them—shocking the librarian, Mary Ellen Baker. According to Time, "news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor." 9

She DID support the Bridge to Nowhere (before she opposed it). Palin claimed that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. But in 2006, Palin supported the project repeatedly, saying that Alaska should take advantage of earmarks "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist." 10

The plain fact of the matter is that Sarah Palin did a bang-up job delivering a Karl Rove-style political attack speech last night. That makes her a skilled politician but it doesn't make her views any more palatable for voters. Americans don't really want another far-right, anti-science ideologue in the White House. "

...

P.S. If you haven't seen it, check out the Daily Show clip on Palin. It's worth a watch
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24753&id=13709-7901518-5V.Hf1x&t=5

Sources
1. "Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'," Associated Press, September 3, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24701&id=13709-7901518-5V.Hf1x&t=6

2. "Palin wasn't 'really focused much' on the Iraq war," ThinkProgress, August 30, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24702&id=13709-7901518-5V.Hf1x&t=7

3. "The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/palin-digest/

4. "McCain and Palin differ on issues," Associated Press, September 3, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24703&id=13709-7901518-5V.Hf1x&t=8

5. Ibid

6. The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/palin-digest/

7. Ibid

8. Ibid.

9. "Mayor Palin: A Rough Record," Time, September 2, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24704&id=13709-7901518-5V.Hf1x&t=9

10. The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/palin-digest/


(MoveOn.org)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

One word, procrustean.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:01 PM

That's it. They're both balding and look old. And than, of course, they are both military men, and they're both centrists.