BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:38 PM

""Being African is not behavioural and catagorising them in this way would is racist""

Being gay is not behavioural and categorising them in this way is HOMOPHOBIC, and YOU should be ashamed of yourself.

""You just brush off Keith's figures as if they didn't exist, although they support everything I have been saying about the need to have greater control over the disease.
Worse.....You attempt to turn these figures into a stupid, witless joke""

Just as YOU brush off the plethora of facts and figures which have been quoted, which disagree with your hard wired, bull headed, NEED to debase and denigrate gays.

If anything here is a stupid witless joke it is your attitude toward a group of people who cause you no harm or inconvenience, and the majority of whom have no knowledge of your existence.

I can't help thinking that they are more lucky than we are.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:25 PM

As usual frogprince, you ask very pertinent questions.

questions I have been asking for some time, but the answers do not appear to be in the public domain.

I will ask another pertinent question, would publication of the answers be an infringment of the the human rights of paedophiles?

We live by the rules of the madhouse.

I believe that very few paedophiles would be interested in children whom they were not sexually orientated towards.

I knew a homosexual who lived in a sham marriage.....the couple fostered children near to where I live, they fostered mainly boys of about my own age.
All the boys were abused by the paedophile, but neither of the little girls were touched.
Also homosexual paedophile rings which have been in the UK papers lately and included in their number one of the leading British "Gay" activists, abused exclusivly boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:10 PM

"Froggers, I think there were some stats on another thread, which was dealing with pedophile priests, and those stats are overwhelming, in favor of homosexual pedophiles, in the Catholic priesthood."

"I think" i.e. "I haven't a clue if there are any or not"

In fact, there are none.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:04 PM

Froggers, I think there were some stats on another thread, which was dealing with pedophile priests, and those stats are overwhelming, in favor of homosexual pedophiles, in the Catholic priesthood. That being said, I don't think anyone has posted anything in regards to outside of those particular clergy.

You might look up NAMBLA(North American Man Boy Love Association), who is an organization for homosexual men, trying to get 'civil rights' to young boys, because of discrimination, due to their age. Their motto is,"Sex before eight, before it's too late".

By the way, I can't recall any other group of sexual oriented people who have such an organization. Perhaps, it's just a co-incidence that it is MAN/BOY(?).

If I have the time, and/or inclination, I can find an address for you.

Though, psychologically there are similarities in their make-up, I don't have any stats in front of me. I posted the similarities on the first thread about the pedophile priests, but I think Joe has replaced it with another thread.
Again, those similarities were dealing with the pedophile priests, who took a vow of celibacy, and not all pedophiles, homo or hetero.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 03:29 PM

I don't think anyone here would deny that there is such a thing as a homosexual pedophile. And there is no way that anyone here would excuse a pedophile's actions because he is homosexual. But are there any real statistics clarifying:

What percent of known male pedophiles have a clear preference for boys?
What percent of them have a clear preference for girls?
What percent will gladly settle for whatever child is available?

I suspect that it would be more than a little difficult to obtain and sort that data in a reliable fashion; but if we had it in hand, it could help put some of this in perspective one way or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 03:15 PM

Why not hang them all? Then I wouldn't have to waste £64 on a fxxking CRB check just to work in Schools!!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: gnu
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 03:14 PM

Ake... "Another poster made the very good point, that all men may have a propensity to the abuse of children,..."

That is totally fucked up. Seriously, that is just fucking warped.

I have checked in on this thread as I did the last one, but it is DEFINITELY time to leave the trolls and the worthless inane posts alone.

Let this thread and the shite therein fade away.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 03:03 PM

Let's try this again, just to see if it penetrates some of the denser skulls:
Pedophilia = sex with children. Not hard to understand, right?
Homosexuality = sex with same gender. Also not to hard to understand.
Those who have sex with the same gender children, are homosexual pedophiles.
Those who are defenders of homosexuality, perhaps because they are homosexual themselves, are deluding themselves, to not call a spade a spade. Of course not all pedophiles are homosexual, but that does not excuse those who are. Likewise, those who are heterosexual pedophiles, are, indeed, child rapists. This is not rocket science, rocket men!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 02:51 PM

Only Chinese laundry laundrymen should Lift Shirts!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 10:06 AM

I presume the two posts since my last are comprehensible to whoever posted them & were intended to make some communication. They are completely opaque to me.
Please don't trouble to explain: it really doesn't matter in the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 08:29 AM

Well, sheet fire...

Looks as I've missed out on all the fun here but, hey, let's get real here fir just one danged minute...

Hey, if God Hisseff wanted us to be queers then he woulda but that in ther Bible somewhere... You know, like "Thou shalt be be queers"... Right???

(spit)

But he didn't so let's take up this proposed law about killin' queers... Where is that law anyway??? Alabam is my first guess but might as well be in some Afercan country, I donno... If the folks in Alabama wanta kill the queers, hey, I'd say that the queers oughtta not wait fir that law to take effect.... Heck, no... They oughtta go where folks loves queers, like Washington, D.C.... Seems every time ya' turn around there's some Congressman who been caught in one of them wide stance situations and so let the Alabama queers go up there... Right???

(spit)

What else??? Oh, yeah... Families... I heard there is this joint in D.C. where "The Family" hangs out and they trade girlfirends and boyfriends like they was baseball cards... See ehat I mean??? The wierd thing about The Family is that they is all behind killin' queers... But then word on the street is that these folks will take a poke at anything with a pulse... What is that??? Sopunds lot like queers to me...

(spit)

Lastly and finally... I been havin' these thoughts about all these commonists who want to take away my guns and make my kids marry queers and I reckon if yer gonna kill the queers then ya' might as well just go ahead and kill these commonists while yer at it 'er they'll sho nuff grow you another batch of queers and then you'll have to start all over... Right???

(spit)

And lastly, maybe we shouldn't even worry so much about queers since they really is just people who the commonists turned into wide stancers... Maybe we should just kill the commonists... Then we wouldn't have to worry about them makin' new queers and takin' our guns away... Yeah, that's a much better ideaz...

(spit)

Get 'er done,

Rufus Tompkins

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 07:58 AM

This'll be fun.
What weren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 05:56 AM

I can remember plenty of cases of homosexual rape being reported over the years, Jim — not as many as hetero ones, but a fair number just the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:16 AM

Back to the old point; paedophelia is not by any means a predominantly gay crime - nobody exept the homophobes have ever suggested it was.
On the other hand rape is almost exclusively a hetrosexual crime - does that tell us anything about either sexual orientation?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 04:09 AM

Akenaton points out that nobody in this thread has come out in favour of the subject ie., death penalty for homosexuals.

Good point.

But plenty have come out saying that it is wrong to physically love somebody of the same gender.

So in a way, plenty have come out in favour of the rationale. Just they haven't the guts, courage of conviction or honesty to support the Ugandan solution.

Perhaps there is something they should be telling themselves at the very least?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 01:58 AM

TIA:"With the help of our resident counselor, I have just come out of the closet.
Now I will be able to honestly be sexually attracted to women."

You already are attracted to women...so much, maybe you wanted to BE everything they weren't to you.

Wink,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:30 AM

"999, do you think Gays are closet paedophiles?

Ake does."

I'm quite sure some gays ARE closet paedophiles. Just as are some 'straights'. That said, I don't speak for Ake. Ake speaks for Ake. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:18 AM

Rick Stevens and Inhoff have today said they do not support the pending legislation to execute homosexuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 12:11 AM

lol So sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:55 PM

With the help of our resident counselor, I have just come out of the closet.

Now I will be able to honestly be sexually atttracted to women.

With the help of counsel, I now realize that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:48 PM

Gee Ake, you offer an interesting conclusion. Seems it would be best, then, to extend the familial structure created by marriage to include same-sex couples to afford the same socializing influence to them, eh?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:28 PM

Smedley, thank you for answering my question(s). I really do appreciate it. You have at once given an answer to part of the problem and also pointed toward a solution. Please keep well.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:21 PM

Hey! Pay attention to paragraph #7!!!!!!
Web address at bottom!


Vermont court disputes Virginia ruling on lesbian custody fight
Updated 8/4/2006 1:07 PM ET         E-mail | Save | Print | Subscribe to stories like this

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — The state Supreme Court ruled Friday that Vermont courts, and not those in Virginia, have exclusive jurisdiction over a case involving two women battling for custody of a child they had while they were in a lesbian relationship.

The unanimous ruling conflicts with a series of decisions in Virginia, where courts ruled the state's anti-gay marriage laws controlled the case.

Justice John Dooley wrote that Vermont civil union laws govern the women's 2003 separation and subsequent child custody disagreement because they were legally joined in a civil union there in 2000.

"This is a straightforward interstate jurisdictional dispute over custody, and the governing law fully supports the Vermont court's decision to exercise jurisdiction and refuse to follow the conflicting Virginia visitation order," Dooley wrote.

Vermont became the first state in the nation to recognize same-sex couples' relationships in 2000, enacting a civil union law. Connecticut is the only other state with such a law and whether such relationships would be recognized in other states has been a matter of litigation.

Lisa and Janet Miller-Jenkins were Virginia residents in 2000 when they traveled to Vermont to join in a civil union. Lisa Miller-Jenkins conceived a child through artificial insemination while the couple was together, and they eventually moved to Vermont.

About a year later, Lisa Miller-Jenkins, RENOUNCED HER HOMOSEXUALITY, returned to Virginia and denied Janet Miller-Jenkins' demands for visitation rights. They were granted a dissolution of their civil union and Lisa Miller-Jenkins filed for full custody.

A Vermont Family Court judge gave Janet Miller-Jenkins temporary visitation, prompting Lisa Miller-Jenkins to file for full custody in Virginia courts.

The Vermont Supreme Court ruled in favor of Janet Miller-Jenkins on the visitation dispute. The court also upheld a decision by Vermont Family Court refusing to abide by a Virginia decision giving Lisa Miller-Jenkins full custody, and a contempt order against her for failing to abide by the Vermont visitation order.

A lawyer representing opponents of same-sex marriage said the dispute undoubtedly will have to be resolved by the U.S. Supreme Court.

"It's a classic conflict between two states over same-sex unions," said Mathew Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Counsel, which is representing Lisa Miller-Jenkins, one of the women in the dispute. "The real question there is whether or not a state can have its own policy that does not accept same-sex unions or whether they have to accept the union of another state."

Don't believe me now??????
Hey Don, hope you're reading!
Were their civil rights denied?
How come you can denounce your genes?
Time to re-think some errors in your thinking?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-04-lesbian-custody_x.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 04:01 PM

You know very well Amos, that humans do not have the "right" to choose and marry anyone they please.

But other than that I tend to agree with you that this thread has descended into a sort of mad hate fest.
The original question was "should Homosexuals face the death penalty", i have seen no one advocate such a course of action here regardless of how we feel about the homosexual lifestyle.

The history of homosexuality,homosexual risk taking and promiscuity, incidents that I have witnessed in my life concerning homosexual child abuse and various statistics(like the ones citing priest abuse and others) have led me to the view that male homosexuals have a much stronger propensity to the abuse of pubescent teenagers than heteros.

Another poster made the very good point, that all men may have a propensity to the abuse of children, but the family structure and the siring and protection of their own children keeps that propensity in check.

I am speaking here in very general terms....of course there are exceptions in both directions, but in discussions on these subjects, generalisations must always suffice if we are to get anywhere near the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:48 PM

You are right, Amos. My intention here, obviously, was to answer GfS's slanders (actually libel, since it is in written form), but I figure that this thread, like the other one, has pretty well passed its "sell-by" date, having developed a really bad smell. The issue raised in the opening post is hardly being discussed anymore. It's just GfS and Ake, as usual (plus a few stragglers), using this thread, basically, for gay-bashing.

And gnu is right also. Trolls will be trolls, and this thread has basically degenerated into a flame war.

I will no longer lower myself to argue with the likes of GfS. I declare—blanketly—that since all GfS really knows about me comes from his/her fetid imagination, anything derogatory that s/he says about me from here on is a lie and should simply be ignored

Goodbye, folks. Have fun. I have serious work to do and a lot of music to make.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:25 PM

Ok GfS - I'll let you off finding me evidence of someone discriminating against families.

Instead, I'll ask you to find evidence of someone discriminating against straight families.



I can't help observing that you have made a distinction between straight families and families, thus implying that straight families are different.


I had made the mistake of seeing all families as just families, but thanks to your correction I now see I should have discriminated between "families" and "straight families"


... Hey ... wait ... hang on a minute ... I've found it ... the first post that discriminates between "families" and "straight families" ...

And the winner is ...

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:31 PM


If you read, and or comprehended my post, I said 'Straight families' You only said 'families'.


Well done!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:16 PM

Don...wow...I mean that is first-order hardball, but, to say the least, more ad hominem than ad res.


Understandable, and forgiveable, under the circumstances. But a duck is still a duck.

The bottom line is this. Regardless of personal preferences, or hypotheses about provenance, there is no reason offered here why intolerance should extend to legal or civil rights, including the right to go on breathing, AND the right to choose and marry anyone you please.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:16 PM

Just checking back to get an idea of what is going on.

Jaysus... trolls are immortal. Don... get out from under the bridge man!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:07 PM

You're the one who's attempting the character assassination, GfS.

Not only are you a bigot, GfS, you are a vicious—but highly imaginative—liar. You're making up complete fictions about me when, in actuality, you know absolutely nothing about the reasons and motivations involved in what you keep harping on. You know nothing!

I know why you are doing this. You let your motivation for your compulsive gay-bashing slip in the Prop 8 thread ~ and I called you on it. This, of course, tossed a match into your emotional haystack, and that's why you are so frantically trying to discredit me.

Your father married and sired a number of children (including you), and then, according to you, "decided" he wanted to be gay (actually, finally admitted to himself that he was gay) and left the family to go off with a male lover. And this (quite understandably) left you feeling abandoned and very resentful of your father.

This you said yourself.

And judging from the emotionality and general vitriol of your posts, its easy to extrapolate from there.

You have expanded and extended that anger and resentment to homosexuals in general. Then—when it became known that that gender orientation is quite probably genetic, suddenly you became afraid of the genes that you are carrying and embraced the idea that gender orientation is a choice with the desperation of a drowning man clutching anything, no matter how flimsy, that might keep him afloat.

You're terrified that you might be gay. Have you have urges that you might find a bit disturbing? And how long have you been feeling these urges? Since adolescence, perhaps?

This reason for your anti-gay obsession is just a theory, of course, but you--as a counselor--will have to admit that the theory is based on sound psychological principles.

You have cited the work of Richard Cohen to support your idea that homosexuality is a matter of choice and can be cured. Cohen, a "cured homosexual" who, with no qualifications, has declared himself a therapist, attempts to "cure" his homosexual clients by, among other things, cuddling and caressing them (!!!).

You might find this clip interesting. Both video clip and the text of the interview:   HERE. The video clip cuts off early. The latter part of the interview contains some very telling stuff, so I recommend reading that in addition to watching the clip.

Physician – heal thyself! Or accept thyself!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:54 PM

"claim to want 'tolerance' for homosexuals, but have NONE for those who prefer the traditional nuclear family."

"!.....The thread name is, "RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?"

Actually, it could have been named, "RE: BS: Death penalty for straight families?".....Why?

Because you've done nothing but character assassinate us,"

Gfs: NO ONE HERE HAS EXPRESSED SO MUCH AS DISTASTE FOR TRADITIONAL STRAIGHT FAMILIES, OR THOSE WHO PREFER THEM,
LET ALONE LACK OF TOLERANCE FOR STRAIGHT FAMILIES OR "CHARACTER ASSASSINATION" OF STRAIGHT FAMILIES OR THOSE WHO PREFER THEM.

If, in fact, you really believe that that's what you're reading here, that strongly suggests that you need psychiatric help.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:31 PM

ooops, hit the wrong button

Refuse? I didn't refuse. You were imagining that I would. If you read, and or comprehended my post, I said 'Straight families' You only said 'families'....as in non homosexual families, traditional ones..probably like the one you grew up in, that you resent.

Probably if you weren't dwelling on your last post, before addressing me,...

...."the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on."
Oh ... no specific case ...
just the one in your imagination that you wish to illustrate for our benefit.......


So you conjure up the image in your mind and work yourself into a froth, and so fuelled take that energy and use it to call Gay people closet paedophiles."

I guess you were too excited to understand what I wrote, and meant!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:28 PM

A bloke in my local pub who, it has to be said, gets his opinions normally from the Gor Blimey! end of the tabloid newspapers, came up with an interesting one last night.

He is not gay, I doubt that he knows anybody who is gay to his knowledge and in general believes the bullshit The Sun prints.....

He was rattling on about the priest situation in Ireland, (he is Irish and was brought up a catholic, but calls himself a failed one.)

He said that his old church has always preached that homosexuality is wrong and the sinners will burn in Hell etc.

"Here we go" I thought...

Anyway, he said that he can't see what's wrong with liking blokes any more than liking blondes as opposed to brunettes, except a bloke would be easier to buy things for.

He then went on to say that although he could never fancy a bloke, he thinks that those who are so hostile towards gay people are so because they are having problems coming to terms with their own sexuality, and that most of them are closet homosexuals who haven't the courage or intelligence to accept it, even to themselves.

Wow, I thought. I have been following this thread on Mudcat and wondering how to address the bigoted minority and here it is! What an extraordinary insight, and from an old soak in the pub at that!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:13 PM

GfS,

would you mind providing an example of Hate rhetoric? (one from this thread that is)

And while you're at it, perhaps an example of anyone discriminating against families.


You refuse?



I thought you might.


Time for you to waffle on about your refusal being somehow to do with peoples attitudes and nothing to do with the fact that no examples exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:08 PM

"the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on."


In which case Ake?


Oh ... no specific case ...

just the one in your imagination that you wish to illustrate for our benefit.

You asked

"Do you want me to draw you a picture?"

I thought I said

"no thank you"


But you seem to think you are the only one who knows what the term "abuse" means.


So you conjure up the image in your mind and work yourself into a froth, and so fuelled take that energy and use it to call Gay people closet paedophiles.

Where is your evidence of this?

999, do you think Gays are closet paedophiles?

Ake does.

If you need to see evidence of this I'm sure either Don Firth or Don T could direct you to the last thread that Ake hijacked with his slanderous bile.

Apologize?

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 01:29 PM

Well glad to hear your opinion, Amos, but in light of the hate rhetoric that's been going on in here, you know what you can do with your opinion!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:40 PM

Gts, I really have to protest your blathering rhetoric ad hominem instead of ad res. You are really exerting yourself (it seems) trying to assign a whole slough of personal dysfunctions to someone who is a perfectly coherent correspondent. In doing so you are sounding a little less than coherent yourself. You are not sticking to issues, facts or topic.

Furthermore, you are asserting a string of conclusions here which are conclusions absent supporting data.

This makes you sound like an opinionated fathead instead of the thoughtful human and humane person you most likely are.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:09 PM

"I most cases, the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on"
You conveniently left out the fact that girls were abuse victims; we have yet to learn to what extent.
Oh - and surely god would have been there as well- wouldn't he/she!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:02 PM

"And remember, when this abuse was actually happening, the Catholic Church, the Pope, even the congregation were all absent."
When will you admit that the church hierarch KNEW about the abuse - facilitated it by passing the abusers on to other parishes (and eventually to countries where, apparently, it didn't matter) while continued to cover it up (right up to the preasent day)?
The abuse goes right through the church like a rotten core - and has yet to be acknowleged, let alone apologised for by the church leaders.
It's true that all this has nothing to do with Christianity - but neither has the church. Tomorrow there will be a 'damage limitation' meeting in the Vatican, which sums up perfectly how 'chastened' the church is regarding its behaviour toward the children of Ireland.
All this - while they church aspired to the nation's moral guardian.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:49 AM

I've said this before, but I suppose I better repeat it for those who see this thread as a chance to kick the shit out of religion in general and the Catholic branch of Christianity in particular.
I'm an atheist...always have been, but I know many good people who love and need their religion, most are simply not emotionally strong enough to deal with the horrors we meet on our journey, or the losses we endure.

The Church took the cowards way out over this issue, in failing to confront what was going on.....in many ways organised religion is run like a business.....Keep a clean wholesome profile tho' your ingredients may be toxic, admit nothing and cover up the evidence.

How the Church really conducts itself has no bearing on the spiritual needs or wishes of those who believe in Christ and his God given ability to redeem the evil doers in society
These people are the "religious" not the ones who administer the business, so don't kick them, they are blameless

And remember, when this abuse was actually happening, the Catholic Church, the Pope, even the congregation were all absent.
I most cases, the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on........Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:01 AM

Sorry backwoodsman, but it does.

I said god botherer. I didn't say person with religious belief. Many of my own family and friends have faith and belief and I do not consider them god botherers.

The term is reserved for those who try to say that their god exists for me too, when of course he does not. Then when you complain that they have influence on everybody's lives, regardless of whether you are superstitious, they claim you are persecuting them.

Groundless shite is what I am complaining about. The groundless shite that says if you have a lifestyle that doesn't concord with a couple of sentences in an over translated 2,000 year old fairy story book, you need putting to death. (The thread of this debate.)

The Irish children situation, as Jim Carroll rightly brings it into this discussion, is not only truly awful but the systemic cover ups over the years by church leaders of the disgusting, tragic and downright criminal antics of some of their employees completely stops their right to moralise to the rest of us. (Moralising aka god bothering)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:41 AM

Backwoodsman
Suggest you have a peep at what the 'god-botherers have been up to with Irish children over the last half century.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:36 AM

Being a 'God-Botherer' doesn't make one a fascist, Willie.
That 'God-o-phobic' comment of yours belongs in the same place as the homophobic stuff you're complaining about, it's exactly the same kind of groundless shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:54 AM

This debate still going on then?

Why hasn't this god guy struck lightning on the level headed ones amongst us yet then?

The fact that we are still here shows that your god doesn't agree with your homophobia after all.

What are you going to do now? Claim that being gay goes against something other than religion?

I would say such idiots are a pain in the arse but irony never suited me....

Luckily, if we were to tot up the score, more catters seem to be caring humans than god bothering fascists. If there was a god, I would ask him to bless the majority in this debate....

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 04:33 AM

Obama said recently that he might start allowing immigrants with HIV.
Who would pay for their medication?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:57 AM

In answer to 999's question a few posts ago: I live in a British city with a very large gay population. There are all sorts of programmes, campaigns, information sources and facilities which target high-risk groups (this category includes gay men but also others).

I have friends who work in HIV-related healthcare and they tell me that many gay men who are HIV-positive now live much longer because of the increased availability of medication (which doesn't of course cure the condition but helps to manage the symptoms). Indeed one HIV-positive friend of mine was diagnosed as long ago as 1990 but happily is still alive & pretty well thanks to the pills he takes.

The only downside of the availability of medication is that a foolish minority young gay men (late teens or thereabouts) think they don't need to worry about adopting safer sex practices because the medication is there and will 'sort them out'.

The cost of the medication is also outlandish - drug companies make *huge* profits out of HIV.

One of the most-at-risk groups these days is men who have sex with men but do not identify as gay (and are often in marriages with women). These people are less likely to access the programmes/campaigns/etc as they don't want to risk being labelled as gay (which I guess they're not, really).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 01:48 AM

Don,
Well, finally!.....The thread name is, "RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?"

Actually, it could have been named, "RE: BS: Death penalty for straight families?".....Why?

Because you've done nothing but character assassinate us, all in the course of 'politically correct' liberal bias....Why?

Because you walked away from yours, and your responsibility toward yours...Why?

Because you were selfishly seeking your own capitalistic and self image, and acceptance success....Why?

Because you thought you wouldn't be so bitter....Why?

Because your bitterness blindsided you, by your selfish, self serving, mixed with good ol' greed, and, ever since, you've been bitter about those who seek it, perhaps for the right reasons(like providing for their loved ones, their families), and its hard to look back, and without excuses, and acknowledge that you screwed up.....Why?

Because you still can't admit you were wrong....Why?

Because...well, jeez, you still can't....Why?

Because you'd rather be perceived as 'right', and maybe find a new rationalization for a new excuse...Why?

Because, no matter how many people you think who are convinced you are so wise and 'right', in your heart of hearts, I think, that you think, that you know better...and if you admit to anything you were wrong in, you might have to look deeper, and admit more.

I told you I was routing for you!
Sending you positive thoughts,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:15 AM

For someone who put in so much time and effort thinking up and writing all those vicious libels about me, the words "facts" and "honorable" ring a bit hollow coming from you, GfS.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 11:37 PM

Guest999:"Ake, you got it right--and if anywhere I implied you were fulla 'beans' I hereby apologize."

An honorable person is worth listening to. You've shown more class on here, than most of the know-it-alls!(know-all-o-gists).

There are still those on here who just ignore the FACTS, or spin the FACTS, and think they are changing reality!....only their own.

Hats of to you 999!
Warmest Regards!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 11:32 PM

If it does get enacted into law in New Jersey, contrary to (what word should I use? Well, just fill in your own), the state will not break off from the rest of the continent and sink into the Atlantic.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 11:08 PM

Bruce Springsteen Backs Gay Marriage in N.J.

"The Boss" is backing gay marriage in the Garden State.

Bruce Springsteen posted a statement on his Web site urging support of the gay marriage bill that's up for a vote in New Jersey's Senate on Thursday.

Springsteen wrote that he's long believed in and has "always spoken out for the rights of same-sex couples."

The native son says he agrees with Gov. Jon Corzine that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

Gov.-elect Chris Christie is a big Springsteen fan. The Republican has said he would veto the bill.

A state Senate committee approved the bill by one vote on Monday.