Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 08:13 PM

And if you're pissed off at somebody or anoter, you can't carry on a civil discussion, can you?
Stick to the facts of the discussion, and don't get involved in ad hominem discussions. I'd hate to have to take this topic off the table because the Brits can't seem to have a civil discussion of it.
I'm going to close this thread. If you want to continue the discussion, start another thread - and keep it civil.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 07:42 PM

As I read this thread I get more and more pissed off with this Tyke/George Clarke fellow. Could I just point out that his being a northerner does not somehow make his rubbish arguments more valid? Speaking as a northerner.

Nigel

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,GUEST: Nigel Spencer
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 07:16 PM

Could I reply to George's red herring about home taping? There's loads of times I've made compilation tapes for friends and more recently compilation CDS - and guess what? They've gone out and bought albums by the artists concerned. There's a WORLD of difference between turning friends onto great music and systematically bootlegging other people's work (which despite ownership of the recordings, DB is doing when he releases royalty-free CDrs). George's argument - at best - is disengenious. Could I also add that I bought 'Bright Phoebus' on CD from a local record shop, thinking it was bonafide - as did the shopkeeper. It's only now I realise I was sold a CDr. I don't mind that. It's the dishonesty around the whole thing I can't stand - especially around royalties. When I buy a CD I hope the artist profits - and if not I want to know why not... DB's apologists ALL sound like hollow man. Maybe they should take a few minutes to genuinely reflect on their arguments? I'm not sure - for example - that citing the miner's strike is a reason to continue to rip off relatively impoverished folk artists 20 or more years down the line...

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Effsee
Date: 30 May 07 - 07:36 PM

Oi! You gettoffa our thread!!

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,someguyonabike
Date: 30 May 07 - 05:26 PM

I just put this fabulous Watersons Mighty River Of Song [Box] [CD & DVD] up for auction at ebay current bid is only $7.50

ebay auction

I am willing to ship this Internationally. Please contact me before bidding and I will research the cost for you. Thank You!!

Contains 4 music CDs, a DVD of the acclaimed Travelling For A Living documentary, 52 page full color booklet - profusely illustrated with extensive notes and a full discography. Researched and compiled by David Suff. Booklet, CDs, DVD, box and large fold out discography are all in excellent condition. Imported

DVD "Travelling For A Living" the film about the The Watersons
   
[from the notes by Derrick Knight (script, direction, producer) in 1966]

Four young people huddle in the cold and discomfort of an old van as they travel, maybe hundreds of miles, to a singing engagement in a folk club, and back again to their home town of Hull. They are a group called The Watersons - Michael, Norma and Elaine Waterson, brother and two sisters, and their cousin John Harrison.

The three Watersons were orphaned in early life and brought up by a fiercely matriarchal grandmother who said they had to stick together. Even today the closeness of the family unit is maintained.

Despite the fact that two of them have married, they all live together in a single scruffy terraced house, whose centre is a common kitchen, always full of friends and noise. This close, cosy home life is in total contrast to their professional life. In the last two years the Watersons have become one of the most popular folk singing groups in the country, yet they are far removed from the fashionable exhibitionist folk singers.

This film is about the Watersons' world. It is about their lives - down to earth, vibrant, receptive and haunted by all kinds of influences from the past: their Irish tinker and farming ancestry, their grandmother's second-hand shop where a love of tradition grew up among horse brasses and sing-songs, the rich historical and trading association of the port of Hull. Above all it is about exciting old music, its source and its meaning today. In this film the Watersons are placed against the broader picture of the folk revival.



I am willing to ship this Internationally. Please contact me before bidding and I will research the cost for you. Thank You!!

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 May 07 - 02:08 PM

A crap record? Yes.
But how easily could this be reversed . . . ?
Dave Bulmer surely would like to be the most loved and revered bloke in the history of trad music (OK, that's pushing it).
But we'd all think he was quite a nice guy (and he'd get some dosh) if he'd just do a deal with the artists whose work has been buried for so long.
As Dick says, he did it for Mick Tems. So why not for Nic Jones?
Very many people (including him) would become a lot happier than they are today.
Is there anything wrong with that?
Tyke, where are ya?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:59 PM

yes you think he might do something to improve his image,like release the NicJones tapes or if they are still in salvageable condition the Mike and Lal tapes.
Come on Dave,you did the decent thing by MickTems,do the decent thing for Nic Jones.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin I-O-M
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:47 PM

The number of threads, closed, aborted, and continuing show the general annoyance of the UK folk world to Bulmer (and Sharpley). It may well qualify for the Guinness Book Of Records - but what a crap record to hold!

Related threads:
master tapes [re:Phoebus/Bulmer !!!?]
Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer (359)
Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (6) (136)
Photo of Bulmer required (24)
BS: Dave Bulmer-related enquiry (3)
Dave Bulmer - Address (39)
Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5) (88) (closed)
Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (4) (122) (closed)
'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3 (124) (closed)
'Celtic / Bulmer' aborted Part 3 (12) (closed)
'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Pt 2 (96) (closed)
The 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga (161) (closed)

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 May 07 - 08:26 AM

glancing up, I notice six threads about Dave Bulmer which have been closed,now a seventh[the morality of collecting].
does he enter the guinness book of records,for having the most threads closed.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 30 May 07 - 01:55 AM

CM Records Ltd
PR Records Ltd

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 03:05 PM

So,
In this interestingly named "Pawnshop Passage" In Louth Lincs UK.
We have three companies.

Loyalware plc
Celtic Visions
Celtic Roots Ltd.

No sign of
Celtic Music
Music By Mail....(as yet)

Anyone want to add to the list?

Ralph

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin I-O-M
Date: 29 May 07 - 01:29 PM

...........and M O R E ..............

CELTIC ROOTS LIMITED   ...... registered office is in .... yes, you've guessed......Pawnshop Passage

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 01:03 PM

Mr S, the ex-solicitor, had a little contretemps with the good burghers of Louth who decided he wasn't fit to be their coroner after his run-in with the Law Society.

It is also the provenance of S&B's venture into Irish music publishing, though the four volumes are long out of print.

Pat Cooksey . . . ah yes. Looking.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:55 PM

Am I mistaken, or was Louth (Lincolnshire UK) the town where Mr Sharpley was Coroner, or somesuch for a short time a while ago before things took a downward turn?

I have to say that a more apposite name for a business address would be hard to imagine.

And having just done a Multimap search for Pawnshop Passages, it does exist, but it can't be very big, you can't zoom in close eough to see it.

Are there anymore companies in P Passages, I wonder??

And does anyone know the whereabouts of Mr Cooksey? I would dearly love to hear about his action with regards "The Sick Note"

Regards to all Ralphie

(Mr Tyke has gone a bit quiet today, hasn't he?)

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin I-O-M
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:33 PM

And there's more....................

Celtic Visions, owned by D R Bulmer and Ruth Bulmer! and its office too is in Pawnshop Passage. Class.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:41 AM

Loyalware's incorporation address as registered at Companies House is in Pawnshop Passage in Louth.
About right for weasels.
Oops, did I really say that out loud?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin I-O-M
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:36 AM

Apparently its a fact. Loyalware! Perhaps royalties will flow from there with the abundance of milk and honey?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:01 AM

I have started a new thread called Morality of collecting,which mentions Dave Bulmer and asks opinions about paying contributors for their efforts.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:56 AM

Hi Andy.
Like the name "Loyalware LTD"
R

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin I-O-M
Date: 29 May 07 - 07:56 AM

I understand that the shareholders (to whom Mr B must "consider") are Dave Bulmer and Neil Sharpley - for CM Records Ltd. The other shareholder for another DB company is Ruth Bulmer who is co shareholder with DB at Loyalware Ltd. Take the change out of that.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 05:30 AM

Dick.
And a very good question it was too!
How interesting that the Topic/Bulmer subject made its way to Ireland.!!
If your lost album and the mexborough stuff ever see the light of day, my cheque will be in the post!!!

Regards Ralphie (Not having a go, honest Guv!)

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 07 - 05:05 AM

I noted JOE OFFERS comments,and posted a question,that was perfectly polite.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:45 AM

Dick, the answer to your question re Game, Set, Match is an unequivocal YES!!
TOPIC records have always done the decent thing by Nic, and the Game ,Set, Match CD (along with "In Search of" and "Unearthed") a fitting tribute to a fine musician. Hats off to TOPIC for going for it.
The sadness is that the real treasures (The first 4 Discs) are still lost to the world.
Regards Ralphie
(Oh and Dick, I know it's hard but I would urge you to consider Mr Offers pleas. It would be a shame if this thread were closed down. The more people worldwide, the better it is. so bite your tongue occasionally!!!!)

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:35 AM

Referring to the injunction on Topic, Dick Miles said:

Do you know whether this happened or not

It did.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:32 AM

I was recently castigated in another thread by a Murkan for giving 'too much information' about an English issue and I replied that there were constant reminders that this was a US forum and I was simply filling in background to bridge two nations divided by a common language (and sometimes the reverse).

You do do things very differently over there: contracts, royalties, indeed the whole musbiz set-up is not (yet) universally globalised. We even spell that last word differently. And the contributions from Mr Greenhaus indicate that he really does not grasp how seriously some of us take the ongoing CM tragedy.

So it's a difficult course to steer when, time and time again, the 'truth' is (usually) 'civilly' related, only for the usual suspects to churn out (whether through ignorance or bloodymindedness) the same old, now becoming very smelly, herrings.

So I apologise (there's another one) Joe, if you are finding this tedious. But I hope you will endeavour (and another) to understand ust how important it is.

Meanwhile, I await news of the CM AGM. As I have re-cookied. George/Tyke (or anyone else) could PM me. Though I'd rather see it posted here. It's not off-topic after all, is it?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:28 AM

guest28 may o7,1 46 pm,said has anyone mentioned thatBulmer hit Topic with an injunction to try and stop the Nic Jones cd Game set and match going out.
TYKE,are you seriously going to defend that action,here is NicJones,unable to play music as he used to,and Dave Bulmer allegedly tries to prevent the recording ,if this is true its disgraceful,as you are a friend of Daves perhaps you could clarify the matter.,Do youknow whether this happened or not.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:09 AM

Message to Joe Offer.

Hi Jo. Yes you are right!
Whenever this subject comes up, either here or in any other place, it tends to escalate. As I'm sure that you are aware, the whole CM debate is a very sore point here in the UK (Quite what you guys in the US and elsewhere make of it all, I don't know!)

When this thread started, it was originally referring to a BBC Rado Documentary about seminal albums that had dropped off the Radar over the years.

I was very surprised in fact that anyone had remembered Bright Phoebus at all.

As I said yesterday, I fully expected a few days of the usual grumbling from the usual subjects (Including myself), and then it would slowly go away again.

Instead, This poster known as Tyke, has on a daily basis, fanned the flames, and I for one have sadly risen to his bait. For which I apologise.

As you say "If it is a Bulmer thread, then there is going to be trouble"

Sadly, you couldn't be more correct. And until some sort of resolution occurs, this subject will keep popping up.

You say you've had complaints? I would ask who from, but I'm not going to, that would be unfair!!! I can guess though. (I think I can safely say that it's unlikely to be from the artists side of the argument, which means.....)
But, point taken. It's a US forum, and I for one thank you and Max for allowing us UK bods in to play. I will try to curb my temper a bit more, but I'm only human, and when I see friends suffering and/or dying without justice, it's slightly annoying.

I'll consider myself spanked!

Cheers Ralphie

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 01:56 AM

Ask an artist whose work is caught up in the impasse why won't Celtic won't release the albums in the Leader/Trailer back catalogue and the answer is invariably (suitably edited): 'Sorry, I failed O-level telepathy'.

On the face of it, it makes no commercial or artistic sense of any kind and the suspicion is, therefore, that an understanding of the reasons behind the policy lies more within the province of psychiatry than music.

Are these 'shareholders' to whom Mr Tyke refers aware that artists' requests to buy back their rights are routinely refused? Can they figure out why Mr Bulmer sits on these assets 'that are not his' (according to George/Tyke) and does nothing to make any money out of them for himself, for the 'shareholders' or the artists?

Seems to me 'shareholders' have some questions to ask at the AGM. When is it, George? There is not, after all a lot of point in whingeing to Joe Offer. What can he do?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:47 AM

I pretty-much know that if it's a Bulmer thread, it's going to be trouble sooner or later. I'm starting to get complaints. Please try to be civil and truthful.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 08:26 PM

Tyke wrote "I'm saying that the amount of CD's anyone would have to produce if the complete Bill Leader collection was to be reissued would cost millions. The storage costs would be astronomical. You are aware that CDs are going the way of Vinyl and Cassettes and that the copyright Laws are going to change. Lets hope the MCPS realize that a check of who has sold what to who is all held on the Barcode that is scanned at the check out. Then they can collect the Royalties due and pay them to person or persons who are legally entitled to receive them."

No not fishing facts I have done fishing and catching Red Herrings Steve. Dave Bulmer is responsible for running a company that has a legal responsibility to see that justifiable finance decisions are made he has shareholders to answer too. The giving away of company assets that are not his to give cannot be one that he can legaly do I would have thought.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 07 - 07:36 PM

Tyke writes: "You are aware that CDs are going the way of Vinyl and Cassettes and that the copyright Laws are going to change" as part of his justification for Mr Bulmer's reluctance to release his ill-gotten gains on proper CDs. Well, Mr Tyke, I remind you that this situation is hardly new, and that nobbut a few years ago you could not have forseen this particular excuse. You do appear to be fishing around a bit here.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 07:13 PM

Look I was going to bed honest!!.....Really I was!

Then I found this.
Oh Mr Tyke. How could you shoot yourself in the foot so magnificently....Well Done...Bravo!!


"Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 04:54 PM

Yes you have my vote Steve and with proper safe guards to protect Artist rights.(!!!!!!!!) Some sort of Anti Spamming device that stops the moneymen flooding the web with what they want to sell would be good.(!!!!!) So you can find just what you are looking for instead of the stuff that makes them the most money."

The exclamation marks are mine (Ralph)

Tyke. Hang your head in shame.

Shuffling off to bed chortling serenely!

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:55 PM

Oh Just to finish. (Dog/Bone)
Yes I do remember that post from Lanc Lad in 2004.
And yes the Jones family did recieve checks, but to have banked them would have made them complicit and liable. (So, they didn't, wisely)
So, very sensibly, they are sitting in a cupboard somewhere, I assume.
Unbanked and Uncashed.
Not good enough. Someday, Mr Bulmer has got to do a deal.
I'm so glad that I've retired. I now have a purpose....

Onwards and Upwards

Ralphie

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:35 PM

Mmmm

Just noticed that my last post was 333.

Which is "Half the Number of the Beast"

Serendipity or what!!

Goodnight

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:31 PM

Hi Tyke.

Glad you've learned how to spell Nics name correctly

Cut and paste coming up.
(It's quite theraputic doing this in the wee small hours...mind you it's easier replying to you than shooting herrings , red or otherwise in a barrel)

Erewigo!!


"Ralphie or is it Ralph you will have to take up my not intentional rude ness to Nic with Bill Gates as its his spellchecker that I am using. But how rude is it to smash up an Artists Album in a record shop? Even if you did pay for it first!"

To My Friends it's Ralph/Ralphie.
To you it is Mr Jordan. (Mainly because I don't consider that we have a friendship. Sad but true)

As for the terrible sight of me destroying a Bulmer release in a record shop.
Woops sorry, was that an offence bigger than the Great Train Robbery??

It certainly made the manager think about who he was dealing with.
Yes, of course it was petty and childish....but it worked.
That shop doesn't stock such product anymore,
Result!!

Keep it coming Tyke Old Bean.
The longer you keep this thread alive, The longer Mr Bulmer is going to get very annoyed with you.
He wants to keep everything nice and quiet,
The less publicity that this whole subject gets, the better as far as he is concerned.
So, Come on George, keep your ridiculous posts flowing in.
I don't mind, Have all the time in the world.
But, if I were you, I'd keep my front door locked. There are dangerous people out there.

I would be very careful what you say in open forum. (Unless you are the earthly representative of DB??)

Just for Mr Sharpleys benefit. (Yes I know you are out there reading this, Hi Neil!)

I have no financial, legal, or indeed any claim in all of this sad, sorry saga.

I was never an artist with any of the labels now owned by Dave Bulmer (Celtic Music). And therefore have no self interest in this ridiculous situation for personal gain.

If the rights of the recordings reverted to the relevant artists (By negotiation, or whatever, There has got to be a deal available, otherwise what is your agenda?)

Firstly I would be a very happy man.
Secondly, I would not gain ONE PENNY for myself.

Phew...hopefully that keeps me out of court!!

Tyke. Look forward to trying to understand what the hell it is you're talking about tommorow. Not holding out much hopes in the "Making sense" Dept.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:17 PM

Subject: Sign on the dotted line Kid!
From: Rick Fielding - PM
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:45 PM

I've been reading this thread
click

with great interest, and it's an oft repeated tale. Sometimes we as performers think that "our work belongs to us" no matter how unprepared (or excited) we were when presented with our first contract. Simply not so. Legal documents favour those who've done their "homework", not those who want to make the world a better place.

Take it from someone who has signed their name several times to contracts that they simply didn't read fully, GET a LAWYER....even if you think they're parasites.

There is nothing so disheartening as seeing your emotional Art discussed in corporate legal terms.....but remember, YOU gave the suits that power when you signed on the dotted line.


Rick

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:01 PM

Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus - PM
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 01:45 PM

Ok-
A partial listing:

LER 2027       Nic Jones               Nic Jones
CROC 211       5-Hand Reel               Gaughan, etc.
LER 2014       Ballads & Songs               Nic Jones
RUB 028               Nowt So Good'll Pass       Bob Fox, Sid Luckley
LER 2122       Chained Melody               Sid Kipper
PHF 1004       Barking Mad               4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1003       Shifting Gravel               4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1005       Dr. A's Secret Remedies       4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1006       Long Roads               4 Men & a Dog
LUN 051               Time to Time               Gerry O'Connor
LE 4006               The Border Minstrel       Billy Pigg
MOO 2               Rooted!                        Mike Harding
LE 2121               Cod Pieces               Sid Kipper
                   Arky's Toast               Martyn Wyndham-Read
LE 2092               Maypoles to Mistletoes       Martyn Wyndham-Read
RUB 029               On Two Levels               Sean McGuire & Josephine Keegan
LE 2011               Rout of the Blues       Robin, Barry Dransfeld
PHF 1001       From the Beggar's Mantle Barbara Dickson
PHF 1002       Orfeo                        Archie Fisher
GVR 214               Songs & Tunes From Wales       Mick Terns & Pat Smith
GVR 224               You Can Take a White Horse Anywhere Terns & Smith                                                                                                   
CMC 080               Both Sides of the Coyne         Mick Coyne
CMC 009               Hom Bru                        Obadeea
CMC 079               Lifeswork                James Keegan
DAM 056               Since Time Immoral         Kipper Family
PHC 2K2               Legendary Queen of Irish Folk Singers       Delia Murphy
LER 2044       Music From the Coleman Country Revisited       various
LED 2052       Shetland Fiddlers       various (inc. Aly Bain & Tom
                                                         Anderson)
CGR 002               Mouth Organ             Will Atkinson
LER 2038       The Bonny Birdy             Ray Fisher
LER 2076       Bright Phoebus             Lal & Mike Waterson
GVR 209               The Ettrick Shepherd       The McCalmans
GVR 209               Aboard the Cutty Sark       Stan Hugill
CMC 081               You are Here                Tich Frier
PHC 2K7               Frank Wappat's Spring Collection       various
PHK 2K3               The Street Singer       Arthur Tracy


Can't quote prices as yet--I'd rather wait a short while and see if I'll be lynched by maddend Mudcatters

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 05:56 PM

Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: LANCASHIRE LAD - PM
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 04:02 PM

Hi Dick

I'm one of the few people on here who doesnt believe Dave Bulmer is the devil incarnate!

CM have now released 2 Nic Jones albums. Royalties have been sent, but cheques remain uncashed as I believe there are ongoing negotiations over new contracts / royalty rates , etc

I'm not sure about all artists on the label, but a friend recently spoke to Sid Kipper, he said he gets paid no problem and is happy to keep releasing his stuff through them

Yes they press on CDR, but had I not been told, I would never have guessed. I've bought quite a few of them and never had a single problem yet

By the way though. There are a lot more than a "few" CDs they have released. CM own everything on Trailer, Leader, Black Crow, Making Waves, Mulligan, Dara, Broadside, Sweet Folk and Country, Folk Heritage, Greenwich Village, Rubber and I'd guess a load more.

Cheers

LL

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 05:45 PM

- Thread - Message - RE: Lyr Req: When the Coal Comes from the Rhondda - May 21 2005 12:25PM -   Miskin Man
Summary: Calennig CD "You can take a white Horse anywhere" available from me for £12-00 including p&p Andy Jackson, 52 Llantrisant Road, Pontyclun,Wales CF72 9DQ This was re-pressed after Mick's stroke thanks to valiant effort by Dave Bulmer, about whom you hear much bad, but he did us good.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 03:18 PM

So what you are saying is that Bill Leader got the Watersons to sign away their Royalty rights until 2000 copies of the Bright Phoebus album were sold. This was presumably so he could make a fare profit for his out lay or at least cover his costs. The consequence was that Bill Leader only produced 1000 good copies. As he was not able to sell all those copies of Bright Phoebus he did not produce any more. He then sold his catalogue that included the Album Bright Phoebus to someone else who sold it to someone else who sold it to Dave Bulmer.

As Dick Miles has told us it has taken him eight years to sell 800 copies of his albums. Which he has produced in the CD format and unlike Vinyl is still mainstream format. Ralphie has told us that this Album Bright Phoebus was ahead of its time. We have also been told that royalties are paid on sales of Albums.

And you state "MCPS payments (mechanicals) are collected as a result of numbers pressed then sold when the producer has applied for and received a licence. CDs produced at a proper pressing plant from glass masters are rather less likely to escape this control than CD-Rs burnt on a computer and no licence obtained. No returns = no artists' royalties."

I'm saying that the amount of CD's anyone would have to produce if the complete Bill Leader collection was to be reissued would cost millions. The storage costs would be astronomical. You are aware that CDs are going the way of Vinyl and Cassettes and that the copyright Laws are going to change. Lets hope the MCPS realize that a check of who has sold what to who is all held on the Barcode that is scanned at the check out. Then they can collect the Royalties due and pay them to person or persons who are legally entitled to receive them.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 02:30 PM

interesting.
Now Tyke,what is your response to that.
6,20,3,11,15,6,6,19,24,11,5.

Err is it your Irish lottery Number Dick?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 May 07 - 02:14 PM

How can I put this even more simply?

PRS royalties are collected and distributed centrally and are payable in respect of airplay and live performance. Whoever holds the publishing rights gets such payments direct from the PRS.

MCPS payments (mechanicals) are collected as a result of numbers pressed then sold when the producer has applied for and received a licence. CDs produced at a proper pressing plant from glass masters are rather less likely to escape this control than CD-Rs burnt on a computer and no licence obtained. No returns = no artists' royalties.

So it's not hard to work out who loses out in each instance.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 07 - 02:12 PM

interesting.
Now Tyke,what is your response to that.
6,20,3,11,15,6,6,19,24,11,5.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 07 - 01:46 PM

Has anyone previously mentioned that Bulmer hit Topic with an injunction to try and stop the Nic Jones CD Game Set Match going out?

Did he really kill his parents so he could go on the Orphan's Outing?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 01:29 PM

Well I have to admit Diane being Dyslexic it takes me longer to write a reply, I also tend to do it in a programme with a spellchecker. Then when I come to post my reply someone has added another comment. However as I have taken the view that I have been responding to what individuals have already contributed. It has been to them that I have been responding especially when they do not want to receive PM's.

Oh Folkiedave how I pity all those poor students you used to teach who were Dyslexic. Don't you know that we find just using initials difficult naturally you did according to someone, who I will not name, she told me you new everything about everything.

Where doses Royalties portion of the sale of those Albums go? Folkiedave or don't you know the answer. I which case I will personal correct my friend's statement and point this out to her.

Ralphie or is it Ralph you will have to take up my not intentional rude ness to Nic with Bill Gates as its his spellchecker that I am using. But how rude is it to smash up an Artists Album in a record shop? Even if you did pay for it first!

The Musicians Union Blacklist advises artist to contact them before signing any contracts with Dave Bullmer all so on that Blacklist is or was a BBC producer or now Ex BBC Producer. I suspect that there are a lot of people who are not members of PRS. The question is who collects the Royalties due from the retail shop and is responsible for paying the artists who are registered members of PRS and MCPS.

I am trying to be nice here but this is not about Nic Jones or Dick Miles its about lot's of record companies getting Artists to sign contracts which they later regret signing. Other people than Dave Bullmer issued most of these contracts however these people seem to be totally innocent.

Oh Ralphie or Ralph you do seem to answer any questions at all I ask a question and this blue haze of indignation drifts over you. I point out the pointless destruction of smashing up a CD in a London record store and you are so upset. I'm throwing in Red Herrings Tykes mudding the waters yes I heard it all before. I ask questions that you don't want to answer you won't let people send you personal messages because I'll quote a personal message without revelling the author's name "Ferchrissake George. Ralph was a Mudcat member for years. Long before even I was. He
opted out and no longer gets raving loonie PMs from nutters."

You won't talk to Dave Bullmer you won't visit Dave facilities to check on how he is storing these master tapes! Now we find that you think the Mudcat is full of nutters and loonies.

Oh I've got the answer Folkiedave he stuck his head inside the 50 gallon oil drum after pining the directions to the inside of the oil drum with a paper clip so that he would know which side of the Bala he was heading and walked across the Bala.
If only Ralph had been there he could have shown them how to walk on water.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 12:32 PM

Why is it that whenever I think of this subject, I feel a "Watchdog" (BBC consumer prog for those abroad) moment coming on.
Would make a change for Nicky Campbell to get his teeth into something other than rogue builders and time share companies.

Just a thought.

Oh, and many days ago, Tyke asked what all this was doing for sales of BP?

Seeing it's not actually available in many places, if at all. probably not much, but, Tykes continued upping the anti has kept this thread at the top of the pile.
Tyke, if you hadn't entered the fray with pointless and inappropriate questions, after a couple of days, and a few grumbles this thread would have withered on the vine.

I'm sure that Dave B is very pleased that you are standing up for him, and drawing worldwide attention to his activities (Or lack of them).

I know for a fact, that there are some very influential people in the music business reading this, And keeping copies. Which is why I try to be circumspect in what I say.

You and I will probably be safe, as I certainly have no legal ties to Bulmer. Presumably you don't either, do you?
Thats OK then.

And before you bring up my connection with NIC (note sp) Jones, that project was a labour of love for NIC and his family, and if you had read the sleevenotes on "Unearthed" you will have noted that my fee was a Kit-Kat. (Actually, Julia sent me two, but I think it was a buy one get one free deal in Tescos!)

Always be aware of what you put in a public forum. because it is just that. Public....
So, old friend, keep digging. It's all useful stuff.

Maybe you now understand why DB won't go public.

"Anything you say....etc"

DB has lots to lose. One slip, and it might not be nice.

So, Tyke Old Bean, carry on digging, Keep this subject alive. No probs for me. and the world is reading, and making up its own mind.

Look forward to the next round of ridiculous questions

Ralph J

Even you should get it now!!

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:56 AM

Dyslexia or not, It's just downright rude to spell Nic Jones incorrectly at every chance it's N...I...C Gottit??

"All I can see it doing is putting the record stores off buying Folk Albums in a shrinking market for them. So who is supressing the release of Folk Albums."

Dave Bulmer, That's who.
Not a member of PRS, and has been on The Musicians Union Blacklist for years.

Come on George Oh Asker of questions.
Name this company that Dave runs that is so successful, and I will take it up with Companies House, and find out just how successful it is.

Nothing to do with Scotland perchance ???

Freedom of Information act, etc, etc.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:45 AM

The record shop makes a profit on the sale and hopefully pays their bill. I don't know how this works do they pay the record company the royalties or do they pay direct to, not sure about this help, is it MRIPS or some one

There is another way you could put that George. You could say "I don't know what I am talking about".

We all knew that - but now you have got around to confirming it.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:31 AM

Bugger. 'Twas me again.
Tell yer wot, if I change my Mudcat membership name would you all (by which I mean SOME) promise not to bombard me with PMs?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:28 AM

Tyke.
Do you not read peoples posts before you reply, or is it a deliberate attempt at obfuscation??

No.
And yes, would appear to be the answers.

I repeat for the aurally-challenged:

the Taxman has got a slice of it naturally

Er, no. The issuing source would need to be MCPS registered.
HMV, at least, is now aware that the source of some of their stock was not subject to this.

who is supressing the release of Folk Albums

He who holds the rights. Not hard.