BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 09:11 AM

See here, for example


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Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 12:21 PM

While I understand that many folks here are against conspiracy stuff for what they feel is good reason, and others are for conspiracy stuff for what THEY consider to be good reasn, I think both camps would do themselves a favour were they to back up and answer a few questions.

1) Did the Bush administration fumble the ball with intelligence regarding the possibility of an attack before 9-11?

2) WHY was the bin Laden family allowed to leave the USA (17 people was it?) so shortly after 9-11, especially when the Bush administration knew that Osama was their enemy and likely behind the 9-11 attacks?

3) The memo that crossed Blair's desk with regard to the Iraq invasion seems to have been forgotten by everyone. Why is that?

5) In the space of just a few years, the USA had irreparable damage done to its world image and damage dones to its personal freedoms as outlined by the Constitution. Why have Americans become complacent about that? Because the full weight of what are now legal restrictions haven't been applied to the general population yet?

6) Yes, the conspiracy people (of whom I am one) cherry pick. But then, so do those of you who claim there is no conspiracy.

The five questions--some argumentative--that I posted above require answers. Answers to them would help 'decide' whether there has been conspiracy to commit felonies by the Bush administration. So for now, forget youtube and the buildings. Let's deal with the simpler stuff first. And the stuff I posted is simple.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 12:49 PM

I'll make a stab at a couple of them, Peace. You are right- I would like to see these debated.

1) Did the Bush administration fumble the ball with intelligence regarding the possibility of an attack before 9-11? Without a doubt. j"August 2001: Al Quaeda plans to strike within the US."

2) WHY was the bin Laden family allowed to leave the USA (17 people was it?) so shortly after 9-11, especially when the Bush administration knew that Osama was their enemy and likely behind the 9-11 attacks? http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flights.asp

3) The memo that crossed Blair's desk with regard to the Iraq invasion seems to have been forgotten by everyone. Why is that? Do you refer to the so-called Downing Street memo, Peace? I don't think it's been forgotten by the American people. Much to the chagrin, I would imagine, of the US and the UK.

5) In the space of just a few years, the USA had irreparable damage done to its world image and damage dones to its personal freedoms as outlined by the Constitution. Why have Americans become complacent about that? Because the full weight of what are now legal restrictions haven't been applied to the general population yet? I don't think we *are* complacent. Part of the outfall of our govrenment's actions is that we feel powerless. I really do not doubt that we, the people, will find our feet.

6) Yes, the conspiracy people (of whom I am one) cherry pick. But then, so do those of you who claim there is no conspiracy. I don't say there was no conspiracy. I am convinced however that the conspiracy, per se, that some are espousing is non-logical. For two reasons: 1, Anyone in on the conspiracy not only was an American but had family, friends and a future. Not likely to ruin their lives in support of someone's megalomaniacal machinations. 2, It is not human nature to keep silent and anyone in possession of such treasonous activiy would make a name for themselves for all time.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 01:04 PM

1) Did the Bush administration fumble the ball with intelligence regarding the possibility of an attack before 9-11?

YES.

2) WHY was the bin Laden family allowed to leave the USA (17 people was it?) so shortly after 9-11, especially when the Bush administration knew that Osama was their enemy and likely behind the 9-11 attacks?

I do think that they should not have been allowed to leave so quickly and the check on their status and connection might not have been thorough enough.   This is another example of sloppy work, but not an example that there was a consipiracy. What is the connection? These flights were not very well kept secrets and I would assume they would have covered tracks, especially with a few days to regroup.

3) The memo that crossed Blair's desk with regard to the Iraq invasion seems to have been forgotten by everyone. Why is that?

That was a snow job. The war was wrong, and I think Bush took advantage of 9/11 to persue his goals.    Conspiracy? No proof or suggestion of it here, but it does show an opportunist at work.

5) In the space of just a few years, the USA had irreparable damage done to its world image and damage dones to its personal freedoms as outlined by the Constitution. Why have Americans become complacent about that? Because the full weight of what are now legal restrictions haven't been applied to the general population yet?

Americans are still complaining and working to reverse this mess. Too many people sit on their ass until it directly concerns them. There should be more people complaining.

6) Yes, the conspiracy people (of whom I am one) cherry pick. But then, so do those of you who claim there is no conspiracy.

Keep picking and it will never heal. Seriously, you can cherry pick - but so far you have not made anything stick.   It is ill conceived.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 01:45 PM

Ron, I am not trying to 'make anything stick'. I do not understand why you get so confrontive so quickly over this and a few other matters. Usually you make the attempt to be civil. I see you no longer do. So be it, but maybe then don't expect civility back. It just ended from me.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 01:53 PM

Peace - I'm not being "confrontive" - I am just discussing this. I am being civil here, I'm not sure why you are interpreting this otherwise.

You gave us a series of questions and I answered them. All I said was that you gave us a few examples and there was nothing that would "make them stick" - meaning I am not seeing any evidence that indicates a conspriacy.

This is a sensitive issue, but rest assured I am not trying to be confrontational and I have always treated you with civility.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 02:18 PM

IMO the anonymous person who keeps starting these contentious threads is getting their kicks by sowing seeds of discord and then sitting back and delighting as good people go after each other. Don't feed him/her.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 03:41 PM

"Keep picking and it will never heal. Seriously, you can cherry pick - but so far you have not made anything stick.   It is ill conceived. "

WTF is ill conceived? I am asking questions that there are no easy answers for. Cheney, an old CEO of Halliburton becomes VP and all of a sudden Halliburton is making billions in the fuckin' war. Coincidence no doubt.

Bush, who mismanaged a free oil company into the red--how does that work?--becomes the most powerful person on the planet. How does THAT work?

The term Neocon has been used for a hundred years and people just three years ago were saying they didn't exist, that they were not a behind-the-scenes 'force'. How does THAT work?

Keriste, for people who are so well informed and so well-read, I am amazed that you all are willing to take the word and 'investigations' of this government as honest and forthright.

Private army in New Orleans? Police working with military for domestic arrests? Guantanamo and the out-sourcing of torture? This is the new Unitred States of America but everything's normal. How does that work?

You seem to think I am trying to prove a conspiracy. I am not. But I do think there is one, and I think it is so big it's difficult to see. And do I have the answer as to what it is? No. Besides, if I did have the answer and happened to write it here, I don't doubt I would be killed within a few days of publishing that answer.

The ultimate aim of the Neocons, IMO, is the complete control of all resources on this planet and the complete control of all people (labour) on this planet.

Wolfowitz heading the World Bank? A UN that has no balls? Inept leadership for years. Deaths by the millions in Africa, Asia, and by the tens of thousands in the mid-East, and in Europe. This shit is just happening, right? No way.

Wars now are engineered. Hell, I don't have any idea what the money is in arms trading/sales, but it has to be substantial.

Drug companies making over 1000% profits on the stuff they sell. People in poverty that is unimaginable. Just fluke you think? Maybe, maybe not. But every time there's a war, every fucking time, the same bloody cast of characters shows up, the same companies or sister companies, the same fucking boards of directors.

I could give a shit about 9-11, per se. People died. About as many as starve to death every single day in Africa. So to hell with 9-11. FORGET 9-11. Forget questions about the veracity of the Bush administration and the Clinton administration before it. Both these fuckers will not have any war in which they can't turn a profit. And there's the rub. Who's making the money?

If I misunderstood you, I apologize. But please don't misunderstand me either. I do NOT think our leaders are honest people. And I do not think all our leaders have been elected. Paranoia? Maybe. But then I likely would have been paranoid about the Kennedy family way back when. And the deals with Hitler and the steel companies. Gospel of Bob: "But the town has no need to be nervous."

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 03:55 PM

I do understand you Peace, and I probably should have clarified "ill conceived".   Many of the theories that have been put for here (not by you) are ill conceived - no plane at the Pentagon, media planting stories, controlled demolition of the tower, etc.   My point was that there has been no logical evidence put forth that backs up those theories.   Without logic and a smoking gun, the theories are just that.

I don't think our leaders are honest either. I agree with you about Cheney and Halliburton and the rest. We should not have invaded Iraq - it is an illegal occupation in my opinion.   Drug companies, oil industry, etc.   There seems to a collusion going on here.

Still, I cannot let my feelings about these other things cloud my opinion of what happened at THE CRIME SCENE. That is what it was. Say what you will about attacks on our way of life, it boils down to a group plotting the most heinous crime of the century. I don't see a smoking gun that leads me to believe our government was involved with this crime.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 03:58 PM

Thank you, Ron. I indeed do apologize. I should have known better. I think it's delayed male menopause and the pressure of finding out that I have to change my damned clock again on March 25. There is only so much a guy can take.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 04:04 PM

I'm with you Peace. I understand completly. There is no need to apologize for your passions. I think the reason all of us are posting is because we do care about this country and what is happening.

It frustrates the hell out of me when I see people sitting back and taking it. The anti-war movement in this country has not mobilized in the ways that are needed. Thankfully the people that are committed are doing an exceptional job fighting this.

I never want to discourage people from digging for the truth. It is the only way we can surive. At the same time, I don't like to see obvious dead ends turned into off ramps to highways that take us further from the real destination.   I see a lot of that happening in the so-called 9/11 Truth movment - and it would be easy to convince me that the government planted some of these ideas to throw the pack off the real track. It is so much more "romantic" to chase a story about planting explosives and planning the demolition of the towers than it is to realize that we had no security on the airlines and the FBI had their thumbs up their ass before 9/11.

Keep fighting the good fight Peace. Let none of us squabble with each other - that plays into their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 04:08 PM

lol On a scale of 1 to 10, Peace, which is worse: male menopause or changing the clock(s)? I'm long since gone through (female) menopause, I've already changed my clocks for this year- I'm still debating the question.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 04:35 PM

That's the Ron I know and love. Again, sorry buddy.

Ebbie, I read that the clocks have to be changed again on March 25. MY GAWD! I just did that, and my alarm goes off at 2:43 AM every day. No sleep, no pheasant under glass, fish angry at me. This is NO way to live.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 04:45 PM

It all reminds me of Al Stewart's "Time Passages".

It was late in December
The sky turned to snow
All round the day was going down slow
Night like a river beginning to flow
I felt the beat of my mind
Go drifting into time passages
Years go falling in the fading light
Time passages
Buy me a ticket on the last train home tonight

Well, I'm not the kind to live in the past
The years run too short and the days too fast
The things you lean on
Are the things that don't last
Well, it's just now
And then my line gets cast into these
Time passages
There's something back here that you left behind
Oh, time passages
Buy me a ticket on the last train home tonight

Hear the echoes and feel yourself starting to turn
Don't know why you should feel
That there's something to learn
It's just a game that you play

[Instrumental Interlude]

Well, the picture is changing
Now you're part of a crowd
They're laughing at something
And the music's loud
A gal comes towards you
You once used to know
You reach out your hand
But you're all alone
In these time passages
I know you're in there
You're just out of sight
Oh, time passages
Buy me a ticket on the last train home tonight


(Song I always loved.)

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: jaze
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 06:03 PM

I know, how about putting him and Ann Coulter together in a cell. Can't think of a worse punishment for either of them.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 07:40 PM

Ha, Peace. I've got you beat for frustration. The clock radio I'm using was left at the House museum where I lived and worked for years. I switched to it (and pitched mine) because it is nicer looking than the old one I'd had. It is a new clock- but there's no manual.

So. I can't figure out how to turn off the alarm. I set the alarm for an hour at which I'm still awake so I can push the button to turn it off. If I don't turn it off, it gets louder and louder and LOUDER AND LOUDER...

This is going on EVERY day and has been for a year.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 07:56 PM

In response to -ahem- someone's suggestion I looked it up the internet and found this:

"...how to turn the alarm off so that it didn't beep every few minutes. now, i can't figure out how to turn the alarm off. i've pressed cancel and every combination of buttons that i can think of. all cancel does is make the dot that signifies that the alarm has been set to flash at you for a few seconds before it goes back to normal.

"an alarm clock shouldn't need an owner's manual. an on/off button...i mean, what in the heck is that? what's "on"? shouldn't it just say "off"? and shouldn't "off" be indicative that you've turned the alarm completely off until the next time you choose to reset the alarm? if they mean "off" to signify that you've turned the alarm off, but it's still armed for the next morning, shoudn't there be a button that says, "really off"? and "on" button means that the alarm is set, right? "

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

i think this is the stupidest alarm clock i've ever dealt with.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 07:57 PM

You have my sympathies.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 08:32 PM

Alarm clocks were invented by Satan to torture humanity and drive them all insane.

The same may be true of TV game shows, come to think of it.

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 09:27 PM

It's not like Little Hawk to start blaming Satan for things. I am worried about him.

A

Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 09:33 PM

Yeah, I've been a bit worried too...ever since he took that exorcism course and started hangin' crosses and garlic by all the windows. I think he's been driven mad by all them political threads on Mudcat.

- Chongo