BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 01:23 PM

from the ICRC

"In areas where civilians are concentrated, clearly-separated military objectives should n ot be treated as a single military objective. Unless circumstances do not permit it, each party to the conflict shall give an effective advance warning prior to an attack which may affect the civilian population.

In some cases, civilians and prisoners are used as human shields to protect military objectives from attack. In others, the red cross or the red crescent emblem is used to mislead the enemy and conduct military actions. Simulation of protected status by using the red cross, the red crescent, UN or other protective emblems are considered as acts of perfidy, amounting to a grave breach of humanitarian law."


Now tell me again WHICH side is acting according to International Law?


Israel, which is warning about, and even stopping attacks when evidence is available that there are civilians still there,

Or Hamas, which rains antipersonnel rockets over 5 million of the 8 million Israelis without warning, and tells its own people not to evacuate designated military targets?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 01:28 PM

GregF has a real problem dealing with facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 01:35 PM

"It is therefore vital to prevent and eradicate all forms of participation of children in hostilities. The Statute of the International Criminal Court is an important element contributing to a better respect of humanitarian law provisions as regards a ban on recruitment and participation of child ren in armed conflicts. The Statute includes, in its list of war crimes, the acts of conscripting or enlisting children under the age of 15 in the armed forces or in armed groups, and making them actively take part in hostilities. It should be noted that the concept of participation must extend both to direct participation in fighting and to active involvement in duties or activities related to combat, such as reconnaissance, spying, sabotage, and the use of children as decoys, messengers or at military checkpoints. "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 03:02 PM

"YET YOU still do so- bringing up Palestinians killed because of the illegal rocket attacks by Hamas upon Israeli civilians."
The Holocaust occurred in the first half of the last century - the murder of Palestinians is an ongoing fact
Can it be a coincidence tat the nearer Israel gets to slaughtering the people of norther Gaza, the louder get the shrieks of "Antisemitism" from their apologists?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 03:44 PM

Israeli ground operations into Gaza begin.....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 04:01 PM

This is a perfect chance to liberate the people of Gaza from their oppressors, Hamas. I wish the best for the IDF and all the good people of Gaza - stay safe!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 04:12 PM

I feel truly sorry for all involved. As with all conflicts, I suspect each side feels that their side has "the high ground". Each side seem to be acting like "cornered animals". Loss of life is most likely one result-the sooner an agreement to diffuse the situation, the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 04:51 PM

UNRWA Strongly Condemns Placement of Rockets in School
Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza

UNRWA

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 04:52 PM

Former U.S. President Bill Clinton laid the blame for Palestinian civilian casualties squarely on the heads of Hamas leaders, saying their policy was designed to kill Palestinians. Interviewed on India's NDTV, Clinton was blunt in his assessment:

    Hamas was perfectly well aware of what would happen if they started raining rockets into Israel. They fired one thousand and they have a strategy designed to force Israel to kill their own civilians so that the rest of the world will condemn them.

    They (Israel) know when Hamas attacks them that Hamas has set up a situation which politically it can't lose, because they (Israelis) can say 'well if I attack them back they always hide behind civilians and I'll kill civilians, and if I don't we'll look like fools letting somebody shoot a thousand rockets at us and not responding.'

    In the short and medium term Hamas can inflict terrible public relations damage by forcing (Israel) to kill Palestinian civilians to counter Hamas. But it's a crass strategy that takes all of our eyes off the real objective which is a peace that gets Israel security and recognition and a peace that gets the Palestinians their state.

Clinton is just the latest world leader to publicly support Israel and condemn Hamas, following statements by U.S. President Barack Obama, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon, British Prime Minister David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Francois Hollande, and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

Bill Clinton: Hamas' "Crass Strategy" is to Kill Palestinians

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 05:42 PM

I wish the best for ... all the good people of Gaza

Too late, Boo........

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 05:52 PM

As I've posted before, instead of trying to run Beardedbruce out of town, because of his posts, which ARE substantiated, you should be thanking him!! He is, in fact, telling you the truth, which even if it does, intrude into your biases, IS the truth, with included sources....and THAT trumps unlearned, biased prejudices, that come across as sheer hatred, not just to Israel, but a complete disregard for reality!!!!

Let the truth be told, and let the chips fall where they may.....not throw cow-chips out everywhere, and let idiots eat them up and scatter bullshit, everywhere!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 06:06 PM

The truth, Goofus? That I'm a Nazi and an anti-Semite among other bits of horseshit? His "truth"[sic], and possibly your "truth"[sic], but not THE truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 06:07 PM



The Toll In Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 08:04 PM

"The Toll In Gaza"

Thanks to Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 08:21 PM

Over a thousand Israeli air sorties and almost 200 deaths Hamas militia and civilians combined.
One errant missile and almost 300 civilian deaths over Donetsk region Ukraine.

The Israelis have been mighty careful to limit casualties. One would think that with total control of the air they could make EVERY sortie have the kind of casualty kind the innocents experienced over the Ukraine.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:24 PM

How the West Chose War in Gaza
Gaza and Israel: The Road to War, Paved by the West

By NATHAN THRALL, JULY 17, 2014


JERUSALEM — AS Hamas fires rockets at Israeli cities and Israel follows up its extensive airstrikes with a ground operation in the Gaza Strip, the most immediate cause of this latest war has been ignored: Israel and much of the international community placed a prohibitive set of obstacles in the way of the Palestinian "national consensus" government that was formed in early June.

That government was created largely because of Hamas's desperation and isolation. The group's alliance with Syria and Iran was in shambles. Its affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt became a liability after a July 2013 coup replaced an ally, President Mohamed Morsi, with a bitter adversary, Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Hamas's coffers dried up as General Sisi closed the tunnels that had brought to Gaza the goods and tax revenues on which it depended.

Seeing a region swept by popular protests against leaders who couldn't provide for their citizens' basic needs, Hamas opted to give up official control of Gaza rather than risk being overthrown. Despite having won the last elections, in 2006, Hamas decided to transfer formal authority to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah. That decision led to a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organization, on terms set almost entirely by the P.L.O. chairman and Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas.

Israel immediately sought to undermine the reconciliation agreement by preventing Hamas leaders and Gaza residents from obtaining the two most essential benefits of the deal: the payment of salaries to 43,000 civil servants who worked for the Hamas government and continue to administer Gaza under the new one, and the easing of the suffocating border closures imposed by Israel and Egypt that bar most Gazans' passage to the outside world.

Yet, in many ways, the reconciliation government could have served Israel's interests. It offered Hamas's political adversaries a foothold in Gaza; it was formed without a single Hamas member; it retained the same Ramallah-based prime minister, deputy prime ministers, finance minister and foreign minister; and, most important, it pledged to comply with the three conditions for Western aid long demanded by America and its European allies: nonviolence, adherence to past agreements and recognition of Israel.

Israel strongly opposed American recognition of the new government, however, and sought to isolate it internationally, seeing any small step toward Palestinian unity as a threat. Israel's security establishment objects to the strengthening of West Bank-Gaza ties, lest Hamas raise its head in the West Bank. And Israelis who oppose a two-state solution understand that a unified Palestinian leadership is a prerequisite for any lasting peace.

Still, despite its opposition to the reconciliation agreement, Israel continued to transfer the tax revenues it collects on the Palestinian Authority's behalf, and to work closely with the new government, especially on security cooperation.

But the key issues of paying Gaza's civil servants and opening the border with Egypt were left to fester. The new government's ostensible supporters, especially the United States and Europe, could have pushed Egypt to ease border restrictions, thereby demonstrating to Gazans that Hamas rule had been the cause of their isolation and impoverishment. But they did not.

Instead, after Hamas transferred authority to a government of pro-Western technocrats, life in Gaza became worse.

Qatar had offered to pay Gaza's 43,000 civil servants, and America and Europe could have helped facilitate that. But Washington warned that American law prohibited any entity delivering payment to even one of those employees — many thousands of whom are not members of Hamas but all of whom are considered by American law to have received material support from a terrorist organization.

When a United Nations envoy offered to resolve this crisis by delivering the salaries through the United Nations, so as to exclude all parties from legal liability, the Obama administration did not assist. Instead, it stood by as Israel's foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, called for the envoy's expulsion on the grounds that he was "trying to funnel money" to Hamas.

Hamas is now seeking through violence what it couldn't obtain through a peaceful handover of responsibilities. Israel is pursuing a return to the status quo ante, when Gaza had electricity for barely eight hours a day, water was undrinkable, sewage was dumped in the sea, fuel shortages caused sanitation plants to shut down and waste sometimes floated in the streets. Patients needing medical care couldn't reach Egyptian hospitals, and Gazans paid $3,000 bribes for a chance to exit when Egypt chose to open the border crossing.

For many Gazans, and not just Hamas supporters, it's worth risking more bombardment and now the ground incursion, for a chance to change that unacceptable status quo. A cease-fire that fails to resolve the salary crisis and open Gaza's border with Egypt will not last. It is unsustainable for Gaza to remain cut off from the world and administered by employees working without pay. A more generous cease-fire, though politically difficult for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, would be more durable.

The current escalation in Gaza is a direct result of the choice by Israel and the West to obstruct the implementation of the April 2014 Palestinian reconciliation agreement. The road out of the crisis is a reversal of that policy.

*************8

Nathan Thrall is a senior analyst at the International Crisis Group covering Gaza, Israel, Jordan and the West Bank.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:31 PM

"One ERRANT (emph. mine) missile and almost 300 civilian deaths over Donetsk region Ukraine."

Have you information other than what various US media have been reporting all day? 'Errant' suggests that the cause is not known as to who, how and why that missle shot down the plane, and was not really intended to bring down that particular plane.

I note that to this point Greg F., nor musket, nor Steve Shaw, nor Jim Carroll have commented on that incident. Could it be that that thread does not contain the words Israel and/or Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:39 PM

What comment would you like me to make on the Ukraine incident, John? Shit happens?

PS: You're on the wrong thread for discussing the Ukraine incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:40 PM

And now, a brief Musical Interlude

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 09:56 PM

Greg F--

1) I was RESPONDING to a post at THIS thread; you did realize that, no?
2) The sad part is I expected nothing from you. But a bit of sympathy for a group other than Hamas, or anger at a group other than Israel might have been nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:19 PM

The sad part is I expected nothing from you.

Look on the bright side, John - at least you weren't disappointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:31 PM

"Despite having won the last elections, in 2006, Hamas decided to transfer formal authority to the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah."

Hamas won a PLURALITY (not majority) in a LEGISLATIVE election in 2006. The directly elected President (in 2005) was (and remained) Abbas. The election results were 44% for Hamas and 41% for Fatah. After Hamas failed to form a government, about a year after the election, Hamas and Fatah reached a power-sharing unity government under the Mecca Agreement (brokered by the Saudis). Then in June of 2007 Hamas perpetrated a violent coup (throwing Fatah officials off roof-tops) and illegally seized all power. Only about 20% of the PA population supported this military takeover.

Nice try, Nathan, but no cigar!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:50 AM

If Palestinians acknowledge Israel's right to exist, they will find Israel will turn out to be more of a friend than a foe in their quest for lasting peace and prosperity.

Alas, it will take a long time for any such view to prevail.

But unless Palestinians start electing leaders motivated by goodwill and a sincere desire for peace with Israel through compromise, they will continue to see tragedy inflicted on themselves.

For now, we all must hope the current conflict will burn itself out, with the least toll of innocents on both sides.​

Farzana Hassan: Hamas must abandon its hatred of Jews

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 09:16 AM

John on the sunset coast. I notice that you have not made a single comment on the permathread of our local folk club.

Probably because it didn't contain the word Hamas....

When you are defending the indefensible, don't compound it by dragging in the next item of sad horror and trying to demonise decent people down to your own pathetic level.


Mudcat can be entertaining sometimes, even on such an awful serious topic. I love it when you get idiots and shallow fools who love to polarise opinion, despite no credentials beyond right wing press cuttings and a reactionary mindset. It restores your cynicism in the human race.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 10:00 AM

Folk club = sectarian/nationalistic violence. I understand, musket.

In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon!"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 11:44 AM

bobad: "If Palestinians acknowledge Israel's right to exist, they will find Israel will turn out to be more of a friend than a foe in their quest for lasting peace and prosperity."

BTW, who the fuck does 'Hamas' think they are to decide if Israel should exist, or not??...(Well, besides being puppets for Iran)...and for them, Israels won't exist..because Hamas will be pulverized to death, and still not get it!!...and neither will the 'so-called liberals' who think that any country that has a national identity, must be a 'right wing conspiracy'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 12:18 PM

I brought up the shoot-down of the Malaysian 777 with almost 300 souls aboard as a comparison of how many truly innocent lives are taken in a single incident.

I think the word 'errant' was appropriate because it was an unnecessary act regardless of which party fired the missile. A plane at 33000 feet was unlikely to be a valid party to either side (I leave which party to the other thread).

The point here was that Israel is swinging a mighty scythe, metaphorically speaking, and harvesting very few grains, because Israel is TRYING not to take innocent life. Over in eastern Ukraine the taking of much life happened almost casually.

Hamas is launching its thousands of rockets with every intention of doing harm, with a range that now allows them to take out those on the West Bank. They were caught exiting a tunnel onto Israeli territory with every intention of doing harm to Israeli civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM

"Could it be that that thread does not contain the words Israel and/or Palestine"
No - it means that some of us have lives beyond the desktop and only have time to involve ourselves in threads on which we have a direct interest and a little knowledge.
Can't recall seeing your name (whatever it is) on many of the music threads - which is the prime purpose of this forum
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 12:37 PM

because Israel is TRYING not to take innocent life.

Tell that to the parents of thhose kids on the beach & the other 200-odd dead & thousands of (some mortally) wounded.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 12:40 PM

My point is being overlooked: That there COULD be tens of thousands of dead and wounded who won't need to be told anything,they are alive, their loved ones live on.
They should be doing everything they can to get rid of the yoke of Hamas which is using them as a vast human shield.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 01:15 PM

"TRYING not to take innocent life"
Quite possibly - it's a pity they regard anybody who disagrees with their views and ambitions as 'GUILTY'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 01:46 PM

So, we congratulate Israel for not trying to kill too many.

How many innocent people can they kill then before we blush?   100? 1,000? 50,000?

Reminds me of tragedies and statistics....



John on the sunset coast asked why I hadn't given an opinion on something fuck all to do with this thread then got confused when I returned the favour. Sorry, I will make allowances for your lack of intellect in future.

Did you know, Gaza is on a sunset coast. Not that you can see the sunset for the plumes of black smoke and flashes of explosion. Not to mention the soldiers seeing how many notches they can add to their rifle stocks.

By the way, if Israel is the innocent aggrieved nation defending themselves, they need to airbrush out their provocations over the last few years. Google will do it for them if they ask nicely. The US press are doing it nicely already, largely due to where their shareholders stand on such topics.

Subject: more to my responsee at 10:AM
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 03:51 PM

Musket, it seems my response to you this morning was incomplete. This is what I should have written:

Folk club = sectarian/nationalistic violence. I understand, musket. I understand musket.

If the nuance in punctuation eludes you, I'll post some English primers. Actually, no, I won't.

Also I think you need to learn to read. You said, "John on the sunset coast asked why I hadn't given an opinion on something fuck all to do with this thread..." John has never asked you that. John did note to Robobatic, last night, that certain persons (you included) had not commented on the Malaysian Airline shoot down; John offered a rhetorical opinion as to why that might be.

As to not participating on your thread opened today in the 9 o'clock hour, I thought,'what's the, use; there he goes again. The title says it all.' Have fun goading.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:15 PM

Quite possibly - it's a pity they regard anybody who disagrees with their views and ambitions as 'GUILTY'

Again, completely untrue.
As a liberal democracy they have no single view or ambition.
All they want is for the bombardment of their people to stop.
That is a perfectly reasonable aspiration that every country in the world would share if subjected to such a bombardment.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:33 PM

That article posted 17 Jul 14 - 09:24 PM
How the West Chose War in Gaza

is so artfully one-sided, it makes me question the legitimacy of the organization behind it.

The gist of the Nathan Thrall article bodily inserted into the thread is that Hamas, a terrorist organization which maintains power by violence on its political opponents and the threat of extra-judicial violence on the citizens of Gaza, was experiencing political weakness as a result of their mode of operations, hence sought to maintain their hold on power by seeking a rapprochement with the West Bank government. They got no support from the West because why encourage a bad actor, so they began - acting badly (euphemism for firing hundreds of rockets into civilian territory). But now it's the West's fault!
And no word on how they managed to collect thousands of deadly weapons in the time they were serving as Gaza's 'legitimate government'.

It's so surreal it should be laughable. "It's your fault for not stopping me from killing again!"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 05:02 PM

Hey! I've got an idea for the 'so-calleds'...try entering a business arrangement..or even a peace negotiation...or for that matter, ANY negotiations, with someone who thinks you don't have a 'right to exist'!!....and then they want to dictate their terms!!

What a bunch of M-O-R-O-N-S!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 07:46 PM

Any road, I want to start the weekend by turning the thread title on its head, instead of SMALL HOPE for... I'd like to think about the joint Arab-Jewish classes where the kids were interviewed by someone reporting to NPR. The kids covered Arabs, Palestinians, Christians, Muslims and Jews who've been able to get along and their parents have continued to send them to learn together even through recent events.
So there is s*m*a*l*l*H*O*P*E that from a seed of humans seeing other humans AS humans in this period of Ramadan, the Sabbath, and the comparatively low casualty counts so far in Palestine/Israel (as compared to Darfur, as compared to Cairo, Sinai, Baghdad, Damascus, Afghanistan, Pakiston), that something can grow, however stunted at first, and find a trellis.

...after all, even the Federation and the Klingon Empire eventually got along...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:14 PM

It's just a hunch, but if the Israelis wanted to wipe out as many Palestinians as possible, never mind commit genocide, they probably wouldn't issue warnings to Gazans (by phone and leaflet) to get out of harm's way. Nor would Israel continue to allow hundreds of trucks of food and medical aid to enter Gaza even as hundreds of rockets leave Gaza.

And if Hamas were chiefly concerned with protecting Palestinian lives, it would not implore Gazans to stay in their homes — serving as human shields and inflating the body count as a propaganda prop to increase international pressure on Israel.

One perverse complaint, often subtly echoed in the mainstream media, is that it is somehow unfair that Israelis are not dying, so far, from Gaza rocket strikes. The Israelis have the Iron Dome defense system, which intercepts the rockets aimed at civilians. They also have bomb shelters; the Palestinians do not. They have these things because, as Netanyahu said, Israelis are interested in protecting their citizens.

As Commentary's Jonathan Tobin notes, no one is asking why the Palestinians don't have bomb shelters. The assumption seems to be that the Gazans don't have the wherewithal to build them. This is untrue because they do have bomb shelters — they just reserve them for Hamas's leaders and fighters. Indeed, Hamas has dug thousands of tunnels under Gaza, largely so it can smuggle in, and store, more rockets to fire on Israel. Better that those tunnels were used as shelters for civilians, but that would mean not letting them die for the greater "good."

The Palestinian 'Genocide' Lie

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:30 PM

Get this into your super-thick, unreconstructed ultra-right backwoodsman skull, John In The Sunset Home. You are on an internet forum. You do not get to dictate, or even suggest, what other forum members choose to post about. I will comment on whatever I want to comment about. If you pick up that I have not commented about a particular matter, you can either keep schtum about it (recommended) or bellyache about it and make yourself look like a proper twat. I've noticed recently that you haven't posted about your penis size. I wonder why not. Actually, no I don't. Does that lean to the far right as well? Oh, Jesus. Please don't answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:34 PM

Nor would Israel continue to allow hundreds of trucks of food and medical aid to enter Gaza even as hundreds of rockets leave Gaza.

"Allow"? So, minnow, you accept then that Gaza is under occupation and, worse, siege? Both illegal, by the way?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:46 PM

Gaza is under a blockade by Israel and Egypt which is deemed legal by the UN.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:50 PM

Gaza is not under a blockade by Egypt. And the UN has not endorsed the blockade by Israel of Gaza. If you wish to interpret this situation differently, give us your evidence. Better still, just shut your Islamophobic gob.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 09:14 PM

Hamas calls Egypt blockade a 'crime against humanity'
By REUTERS
03/18/2014 18:35

GAZA - The Palestinian militant group Hamas on Tuesday called Egypt's curbs on movement through its crossing with the Gaza Strip a "crime against humanity", in an unprecedented rebuke of its Arab neighbor that further frays their worsening ties.

The closures, that Egypt says were introduced because of security concerns, have cut off imports of medicine and aid to the impoverished coastal enclave and prevented travel by thousands of Gazans and patients seeking treatment abroad.

Usually open for four to six days per month, the Rafah crossing has now been shut to normal passenger traffic for 40 straight days - although Egyptian authorities have opened it twice in that period for pilgrims to Mecca.

"Egyptian authorities' insistence on closing the Rafah crossing and tightening the blockade of Gaza ... is a crime against humanity by every criteria and a crime against the Palestinian people," said Fawzi Barhoum, a spokesman for the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 09:31 PM

Steve Pshaw: "Get this into your super-thick, unreconstructed ultra-right backwoodsman skull, John In The Sunset Home. You are on an internet forum. You do not get to dictate, or even suggest, what other forum members choose to post about."...and so on and so forth...blah blah blah..

This is the post of someone who has lost the argument!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 09:37 PM

"This is the post of someone who has lost the argument!"

I would say that he's lost a lot more than the argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 10:46 PM

Steve Shaw--

I would have responded to you earlier, but when I went to 'submit message' I found I had lost my internet connection. Coming back, now, I see that Guest from Sanity responded much better than I would have; so all I can add is "what he said!" How-some-ever mine was pretty darn good, and I've saved it to notepad for the next time you foam at the mouth when addressing me.

I normally don't speak of my penis size in public, but since you brought it up, I'm not John Holmes size by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm guessing--based on some of your recent screeds--that I'm bigger than your IQ.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 12:47 AM

Steve Pshaw: "I've noticed recently that you haven't posted about your penis size. I wonder why not."

It's not the size, but how you use it...assuming you know how to use it at all!..However, that being said, you sound like that person I mentioned in another thread...."like trying to stuff an oyster into a slot machine!" ....and the more limp it is, the more frantically braggadocios they are about it!.....like your whole rap!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 06:47 AM

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Sisi has thus far turned down appeals from Palestinians and other Arabs to work toward achieving a new ceasefire between Israel and Hamas


    * Over the past week there are voices coming out of Egypt and some Arab countries — voices that publicly support the Israeli military operation against Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

    * They see the atrocities and massacres committed by Islamists on a daily basis in Iraq and Syria and are beginning to ask themselves if these serve the interests of the Arabs and Muslims.

    * "Thank you Netanyahu and may God give us more [people] like you to destroy Hamas!" — Azza Sami of the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram.

    * Isolated and under attack, Hamas now realizes that it has lost the sympathy of many Egyptians and Arabs.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 07:04 AM

"Over the past week there are voices coming out of Egypt and some Arab countries"
According to - "Breaking Israeli News (Latest news -biblical perspectives, as supplied by Zionist propaganda site site Gatestone.
The Author is an ex-Muslim converted to supporting Gatestone, to which he is a distinguished fellow.
No agenda there then!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 08:12 AM

From the Irish Times this morning
Jim Carroll

WE ARE NOT A MILITARY BUILDING, WE ARE NOT A STRATEGIC BUILDING. WE ARE A HOSPITAL,
Some of the shells penetrated the whole hospital, from one side to another and hit the next building
Ruadhan MacCormaic
in Gaza City
Paralysed patients are carried to safety after a 1O-minute attack warning
"Evacuate," said the voice at the other end the line. It was 8.50pm, just over 90 minutes before Israel would confirm it had launched a ground operation in the Gaza Strip. The hospital was at risk.
Its 17 patients, all profoundly disabled and receiving therapy at this specialised institution facing Gaza's eastern border with Israel, had been kept together on the first floor wards.
Abu Medhat al-Ashi, al-Wafa hospital's executive director, says the shelling began about 10 minutes after the call. "Some of the shells penetrated the whole building, from one side to another and hit the next building. Fire broke out inside, electricity was cut, water was cut off and there was a leak," he says.
All 17 patients are paralysed, so the hospital staff faced a difficult task. They scrambled to track down ambulances from across the beleaguered city; as each vehicle arrived, one-by-one, the medics carried the patients out the door with their sheets. By 11pm the hospital was empty.
Lying in bed at the Sahaba medical complex, a private charity-run clinic that agreed to accommodate the patients, 16-year-old Aya Abdan says she is still afraid when she thinks about the previous night.
She has lost all feeling in her legs as a result of a tumour in her spinal cord. "Glass broke and the hospital was full of dust so you couldn't see anything," she recalls.
Shrapnel damage
After a previous incident in which al-Wafa was hit on Wednesday, the Israel Defence Forces said it had bombed a rocket launcher situated 300m from the hospital and the hospital was damaged by shrapnel.
It said an advance warning was given before the strike was carried out and that it had urged hospital staff to evacuate.
The hospital's director, whose efforts are focused on replenishing the stock of drugs destroyed, is reeling.
"You have seen my patients," he says insistently. "They are in no way a threat to the Israelis. How could they be? We are not a military building, we are not a strategic building. We are a hospital, improving the lives of people in Gaza."
Across town in Shifa hospital, Gaza's largest, the emergency department is calm after one of its busiest nights. All through Thursday night and early yester-day morning, the sky was alight with orange flares as Israel deployed a formidable force of fighter jets, naval ships, Apache helicopters and drones to ease the path for its troops on the ground. According to the local health ministry, more than 20 people died and 250 were injured overnight.
Burial of bodies
Outside the hospital morgue, a ramshackle building that has been in heavy use this week, a crowd has gathered to watch the bodies emerge for burial. Usually it takes four men to lift a corpse, each one covered in a white sheet, and put it into the back seat of a car. One of the bodies is that of Mohammed Ab-del Rahman, who friends say was killed repairing a mobile phone antenna on the roof of a building in Gaza City. They think he was hit by a drone.
Medic Hussein Baraqa is waiting for the next call. His shifts alternate between the ambulance and the emergency room, but admits he feels travelling at night - when roads are deserted - is too dangerous. But he still goes out?
"It's my duty," he shrugs. "I have to."
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